Deep Dive: Kershaw Bel Air (is it really the BugOut killer?)
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- This video continues the discussion I started after I tested the BelAir Duralock knife and the Benchmade BugOut at the Tree of Doom. Now it’s time to get into some details of their design and construction and dish out an engineer’s opinion on the design wins and fails, as well as how does it fit in the future of EDC knives.
I did not do anything crazy to the knives in this video, but let’s read the disclaimer anyway: this video is for entertainment purposes only. Disassembly of the knives may lead to their damage and voiding the warranty may occur. Also, it’s a sharp object that is not safe to manipulate in the manner that I do in this video.
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Tsubosan hardness test file set: 👍👍❤️
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Torx T6 bits for a 1/4” drive 👍👍
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Such a refreshing channel, thanks for all the time you spend doing these vids.
Glad you enjoy it!
Now thats a proper review! Thanks for your time and efforts to educate the community.
Wow. Fantastic content. Everything you could possibly want to know about these two knives. This is a knife engineering channel. No BS.
Thanks for the awesome comment!
Top notch review. I bought the Bel Air and plan to use it as my walkin’ around knife. It’s good to know how it’s put together and it’s shortcomings.
Hopefully mine was a fluke! Happens when the new model first comes out .
I have been watching through so many of your videos the last couple of days. Seriously incredible work. You put critical thought into design components and evaluate knives taking much more than "hand feel" into account. You are doing an exceptional job!
Wow, thank you! Please share my content with all your friends!
I really enjoyed this discussion and all the technical information you compiled for it (like the hardness of the cartridge liners, for example). Thanks for the video, top notch!
Working on the follow up video. Stay tuned 👍
Price-wise the Bel Air and Bugout are about the same at around $150. Bugout weighs about half as much. Bel Air has the superior steel. The thickness of the Bel Air at 0.09” is part of its attraction as a super-slicer. People who wish the blade was thicker are barking up the wrong tree. Bel Air is not a hard use knife but the full length liner gives it more structural strength than the Bugout. The only advantage the Bugout has is in weight. The Bel Air is actually more comparable to the much more expensive Benchmade 945.
Cerakoted aluminum is definitely a nicer material than injection molded plastic too. It isn't even just about the liners.
Also 130 right now for me on Amazon
Benchmade's qc is also unacceptable for the prices they charge.
@@rays5163 It’s $147.54 right now on Amazon.
I just ran across your channel and appreciate your detailed explanations. Well done sir!
Thanks and welcome! Please help to spread the word by sharing this video with your friends!
A succinct, educated, objective and interesting analysis of two similar knives. So refreshing to have the disciplined insight of an engineer and machinist. You bring a lot to the field. Thank you.
Much appreciated!
One of a kind channel/content! Brilliant, thank You for such a deep dive!
Much appreciated! Please spread the word!
Appreciate this type of comparison, it'd be cool to see other "similar" knives compared in the same way.
Working on it! Stay tuned
Great detailed analysis. Thank you so much for answering our questions, i would also buy the Pro... you pay for what you get and they are so close !!! Regards
Keep doing what you do, your gonna get big in the knifetube arena... live streams will help you with that significantly and something you should most definitely consider doing.
I have to get set up for life streams. No clue how to do this. Do you know what app Jared uses?
@@CuttingBoardRx obs/streamlabs obs? have no idea who is jared
So glad I discovered your channel
Glad you like it! Feel free to ask questions and spread the word!
Very good video - I like having an engineer’s explanation of knife construction.
Thanks!
Great video. Thank you for your time and knowledge. Bugout has no full length metal frame, which is a big problem in my opinion. Yes it is light, but also fragile, you can bend and break the grip by hands.
Really amazing incite - a big thank you for taking the time and effort.
I really liked the BelAir when it started popping up on all the you tube videos, but now I have to reconsider. At $150, money could probably be better spent elsewhere.
Glad it was helpful!! Hope you are a subscriber!
Love mine but wish they made one the size of the Military & PM2.
Really great explanation. Hearing an engineer's perspective was illuminating.
Count me in as a new subscriber.
Thanks and welcome!
Interesting, is it not possible to reach a higher Rockwell treatment with the thinner blade stock and apply thicker and fewer washers?
It’s possible but with more edge retention comes less toughness. I’m making this point in the video that is linked at 0:20 Also, watch my videos about Hogue Dekas that I tested. Magnacut doesn’t seem to like being too thin.
excellent comparison & very educated channel .i would rather they can make it a little thinner blade since anyone who buy & use them won't do batoning,but slicing .thank u
@@vicentvanmole thank you. Kershaw makes absolutely amazing auto knives in the US and great budget folders in China. But Bel Air is a mystery to me because of mismatch of the various design features!
I’ve got a bel-air on the way. 2 day free shipping with Amazon prime. I chose it over the Bugout because I’m interested in owning my first magnacut knife and I’m a fan of the aluminum cerakote bone color. Also, I’ve owned a Kershaw cryo for about 10 years as an edc and it has never failed me. I’m looking forward to the bel-air as it will be my first premium knife. Thanks for all the info.
Every Omega spring I've had in any Benchmade has always broken however I really like benchmades blades but I hate their hardware
Very nice video. I never liked the buyout. Seems like a toy to me. The Kershaw I’m considering just wish the blade was a little longer.
… and thicker
Where they screwed up was not following the manufacturers heat treat protocol. No need for it to be thicker at 63-64 as magnacut is plenty tough for the thickness it has as is the Bugout. And it is a tougher steel than the Bugout.
KnifeMaker/Retired after 47+ years in the Knife Shop
I really appreciate your comment! Especially coming from a very experienced knife maker. That’s the exact point I was trying to make, using Dr. Thomas’ video as the reference. For MagnaCut to become as ductile at HRC 62 or higher, Kershaw would have had to Austentize at a temperature 200F higher than the inventor of this steel recommends. The question is, was it an accident or did they do it on purpose? I’d like to know the answer and the logic behind it.
Love your channel man. You seem like a very smart guy. What’s your background? Just out of curiosity.
These should be way more popular
Awesome video, I've got the bel air great knife and I've also got a hogue deka, I think the blade on the deka is abit thicker but I don't like the scale as much, I'm sure if I put metal scales on the deka I will love it more than the bel air and I do have a touch play left to right on the bel air if I don't run it abit tight
I would like to hear the rebuttal engineering reasons for Kershaw or other manufacturers. Things like bearings instead of washers for fidget factor. Or blade thinness for slicing performance over toughness.
Telling both sides of pros and cons could bring more respect and acceptance for your channel.
Well, the big manufacturers are telling their side of the story through the big retailers’ channels: BHQ, KC, etc. The retailers are not going to say that a thicker blade can slice just as efficiently as the thinner blade unless they are holding the thicker blade in front of the camera.
with a thicker blade you loose cutting ability. its geometry that cuts. so i like the thin blade
Speaking of magnacut… I’m currently looking at a white river M1 Pro for a hunting knife, they offer s35vn and magnacut steels. What do you prefer for these tasks?
@@user-no9qb6lj7c I looked up the advertised heat treat on WR website. Their S35VN hardness is 58-60 and MagnaCut is 62-64. The former will underperform and the latter is in the best range for this geometry. So for the $20 difference, I would pick MagnaCut.
Thanks for sharing!
Having thoroughly examined the Kershaw’s pivot, could one simply toss out the extra washers and make up the thickness with larger (ceramic) bearing balls from a reputable company like Skiff Workshop? Or do the washers serve some other purpose?
Wish the bel-air blade was just a little bit bigger.
Fantastic video! Just liked & subbed! ✌️
Welcome to the channel! Hope you can help spread the word!
This is interesting. I have both these knives Bel Air in Magnacut and bugout in s30.
I also have a benchmade north fork in s30 and a spiderco Smock in s30.
The Spyderco smock holds a edge better than them all by a good amount.
The Belair seems in both blade shape, edge retention, and smoothness of action to be right between the Bugout(in s30)and Smock.
But I am disappointed that the Smock is so much better with a lesser steel. Does anyone know why?
So in the Belair holds the bearings inside the blade, not inside the frame... This bring to blade play very fast and thats a bad design, not for a 140$ knife. Just because of that ill go with bugout.
Great review.
As always i dont get why people love their bearings instead of the better bronze washers that doesnt sacrifice toughness supposedly and that if you get dust the bearings instantly get bad
Youre on point, bro. Maybe INTJ
Great video!
Thanks!
Are the axis locks interchangeable on the two? I’m planning to get some glowrhino tritium bling👀
Haven’t tried.
I agree that the liners of the Bel Air make it more durable, but not only because of the HRC. The full liner as opposed to the cartridge liner does make a difference...I've seen Bugouts snapped in half where the liner ends.
I respect your commitment but would have to question if the real Bugout was what you saw. There were some serious tests on the real BOs that proved its strength and there are hundreds of fake BOs on EBay, Amazon etc.
1. Did you get replacement washers for the ones that seemed to have an improper/non-existent heat treat?
2. These models aren't really in the same class as the Bel Air is about 60% heavier.
3. "Each new part added to a mechanism reduces its reliability by that much", "Each screw is a point of failure" Actually you have it backwards: Additional screws provided redundancy.
4. The Bugout liners at an HRC of 40 would be heat-treated to obtain that hardness. (The highest quality screws commonly available, property class 12.9, have a similar hardness, C39-C44.)
5. That the liners of the Bel Air have as high of hardness as a knife blade is surprising and unnecessary.
6. The BugOout was released in 2017, less than 7 years ago.
7. You mis-counted the parts as the left and right omega springs aren't interchangeable.
8. Heat treating MagnaCut to HRC 63-64 would sacrifice toughness. Per Larin Thomas's data, maximal toughness is at around 60 HRC.
Thanks for commenting! Discourse is a cornerstone of Freedom.
Point #8 is incorrect. #7 I think I was referring to the liners on the Bugout #6 530 is the direct predecessor to the 535, #5 agree, I think they were planning on a direct contact with bearing balls #4 not necessarily: H class steel can be cold rolled to this hardness #3 true, but there’s no redundancy in this particular design so it wasn’t discussed #2 I’m responding to moronic statements like “Bugout killer” it’s not #1 no, but I will post a video with a possible mod soon
@CuttingBoardReviews Regarding #8, what is your source of that information? Refer to the graph at 23 minutes 15 seconds in the Knife Steel Nerds "What is the Best Hardness for MagnaCut Knives?" video. The peak toughness in the curves occurs at around 2025° F. Then look up that temperature in the other tables. It corresponds to an HRC of around 60, depending on the temper temperature.
Well I don't think
magnacut is the best but it's better then sv35 on the bugout all around in corrosion blad retention and toughness it also has aluminum scales way better then fd plastic on bugout all around the kershaw bel air is far better for the money then the bugout if you look at stats u can't even debate it I think the only thing better rn is a hogue deka but big but u have to upgrade the scales or buy it with aluminum I think paying 150 bucks for a knife with plastic scales is retarded also the bel- is over 30 bucks cheaper then bugout my only complaint on bel air is they used t6 screws
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