I ran session two of Out of the Abyss last night. Two NPC's died and so did a PC, after they had the brilliant idea to jump (lemmings style) off the edge of Velkynvelve and into a pool with a gray ooze in it below. This player failed his attempt to dive, and his character broke her neck. She then shrugged it off, and began working on a new character.
Damn, a hot take thats actually a hot take. As a DM, I do enjoy when players exibit system mastery mainly because my joy comes from creating elaborate encounters. Softballing encounters and auto attacking gets boring after a while. I am more than willing to teach whatever game we are playing at the time but if you can't be bothered to learn your character sheet or the basics of the system I am more than willing to let the dice fall where they may.
And this is why you do a session 0, so the table knows what they're getting into and I know what they want and if these expectations dont match you just don't play together. Bonus points to motherships breach of contract where the players literally sign their characters life away to a corporation, 10/10.
Good talk, first time I've seen the podcast. The topic of character death is one that I cover in my session zeroes because I love the journey of the character, I like to see their stories realized. Some stories do end in death but I never want that death to be without meaning if I can help it. I don't go out of my way to kill characters but I do put a lot of work into foreshadowing and warnings and clues to give players knowledge about a situation so that they can choose to avoid it or approach it differently because I really put a lot of work into the setting. There are some areas in the world where they may not want to go or some entities that they shouldn't strive to annoy at level 3, but at the same time it is so rewarding to give players the chance to gear up or make plans and find ways to solve a situation. More information is better. On the same note, I will curb difficulty in subsequent rooms of a dungeon if I see it is going too poorly for example but I still keep that believable interaction of the world that they are in. I want moments where people shine and I try to not manufacture anything where there isn't a clear way out, or an item that can help to recover from a situation. I want the story to be an epic. We play in a noble dim setting (the world is recovering from catastrophe, there is great evil in the world but heroes are strong and can make the difference).
This sounds like a mature way to run the game, and mirrors how both of us run our campaigns. Fully agree on session zero. You don't want the players to think their characters have plot armour but you also don't want them to die simply because the players don't know what they are up against. Likewise unless you are running something like Tomb of Annihilation which is advertised as a meat grinder, you do not want a "save or suck" roll to result in meaningless death.
Only War from Fantasy Flight is an example of a system where character life is considered "cheap". In that system, it is easy for every player to go through multiple characters because of death or insanity within a single campaign. Its controversial, but its also very accurate to the lore of the universe of Warhammer 40k. Persinally, i and my players like the system and the brutality of it, but we also know that its not a "normal" RPG
I run in a more league style setting, so we get like 40-50 players and 5-7 Dm's depending on the day. I have no qualms in offing characters, but I do keep in mind whether they have the resources to resurrect, or how soon into a session it is, and always try and keep to a rule that a player should see the chain of events that led to there death. Last week a lvl 11 ran right up to a lich with 98 health... quicly whispered the cleric and was like "hey you got revifiy right?" he did so power word kill. The paladin player was like a 11 year old kid but now he has learnt lol
While pretty hard core, if you keep killing players you’ll eventually run out of living people willing to play and places to hide the bodies. And if not any players you do get will be very sus.
you're not a bad DM for killing the PCs, however you are a bad DM if you're TRYING to kill the PCs. also, in my experience, players can have about 2 or 3 characters die before they become emotionally disengaged from the narrative. also also, Mork Borg and Call of Cthulu are 2 systems I personally know of where life is cheap. Mork Borg is still combat focused like D&D but the character creation rules include your backstory to help reduce emotional investment in the characters and then the characters can die really easily without leaving the scope of "balanced" encounters while CoC is a non-combat focused TTRPG that brings a lot of danger to the table since it's a horror based game. Any TTRPG that's not focused on combat but includes danger, especially if player fear is a part of the game's goal, is likely a system built with the ideology that lives are cheap
Depends on your players, if your players are baby faced babies who cry like babies then probably don't kill em unless you want to make them cry. I DMd for a woman I work with and her family years ago. Her youngest was 8. The child played a Tabaxi Wizard who only ever engaged in melee combat scratching things with their claws because "I'm a cat, cats scratch things." and since it was hard to argue with that logic I just let it roll. And of course her character died. She cried for like an hour. :/
Is character death part of the game? Then there's literally no problem with killing off the player characters, unless you're being a vindictive asshole about it.
@@IdCritThat I think some DMs overcorrect in the other direction and bend things to save characters, when that's not really in the spirit of D&D. Life is cheap, roll a new character. I should probably watch the actual video now, haha. Just felt like throwing in my two cents first for some reason.
I ran session two of Out of the Abyss last night. Two NPC's died and so did a PC, after they had the brilliant idea to jump (lemmings style) off the edge of Velkynvelve and into a pool with a gray ooze in it below. This player failed his attempt to dive, and his character broke her neck. She then shrugged it off, and began working on a new character.
Damn, a hot take thats actually a hot take. As a DM, I do enjoy when players exibit system mastery mainly because my joy comes from creating elaborate encounters. Softballing encounters and auto attacking gets boring after a while. I am more than willing to teach whatever game we are playing at the time but if you can't be bothered to learn your character sheet or the basics of the system I am more than willing to let the dice fall where they may.
😂😂😂 Eric's noises: Vibing with Vic
I never kill PC's. The dice do that.
And this is why you do a session 0, so the table knows what they're getting into and I know what they want and if these expectations dont match you just don't play together.
Bonus points to motherships breach of contract where the players literally sign their characters life away to a corporation, 10/10.
Non-dnd comment: Only thing more stressful than wedding planning is home buying. Until you have kids.
Oh I BET
Good talk, first time I've seen the podcast.
The topic of character death is one that I cover in my session zeroes because I love the journey of the character, I like to see their stories realized. Some stories do end in death but I never want that death to be without meaning if I can help it.
I don't go out of my way to kill characters but I do put a lot of work into foreshadowing and warnings and clues to give players knowledge about a situation so that they can choose to avoid it or approach it differently because I really put a lot of work into the setting. There are some areas in the world where they may not want to go or some entities that they shouldn't strive to annoy at level 3, but at the same time it is so rewarding to give players the chance to gear up or make plans and find ways to solve a situation. More information is better.
On the same note, I will curb difficulty in subsequent rooms of a dungeon if I see it is going too poorly for example but I still keep that believable interaction of the world that they are in. I want moments where people shine and I try to not manufacture anything where there isn't a clear way out, or an item that can help to recover from a situation. I want the story to be an epic.
We play in a noble dim setting (the world is recovering from catastrophe, there is great evil in the world but heroes are strong and can make the difference).
This sounds like a mature way to run the game, and mirrors how both of us run our campaigns. Fully agree on session zero. You don't want the players to think their characters have plot armour but you also don't want them to die simply because the players don't know what they are up against. Likewise unless you are running something like Tomb of Annihilation which is advertised as a meat grinder, you do not want a "save or suck" roll to result in meaningless death.
Only War from Fantasy Flight is an example of a system where character life is considered "cheap". In that system, it is easy for every player to go through multiple characters because of death or insanity within a single campaign. Its controversial, but its also very accurate to the lore of the universe of Warhammer 40k. Persinally, i and my players like the system and the brutality of it, but we also know that its not a "normal" RPG
I run in a more league style setting, so we get like 40-50 players and 5-7 Dm's depending on the day. I have no qualms in offing characters, but I do keep in mind whether they have the resources to resurrect, or how soon into a session it is, and always try and keep to a rule that a player should see the chain of events that led to there death. Last week a lvl 11 ran right up to a lich with 98 health... quicly whispered the cleric and was like "hey you got revifiy right?" he did so power word kill. The paladin player was like a 11 year old kid but now he has learnt lol
While pretty hard core, if you keep killing players you’ll eventually run out of living people willing to play and places to hide the bodies. And if not any players you do get will be very sus.
well acally you can say windigo just not its name in its orgional languge
you're not a bad DM for killing the PCs, however you are a bad DM if you're TRYING to kill the PCs.
also, in my experience, players can have about 2 or 3 characters die before they become emotionally disengaged from the narrative.
also also, Mork Borg and Call of Cthulu are 2 systems I personally know of where life is cheap. Mork Borg is still combat focused like D&D but the character creation rules include your backstory to help reduce emotional investment in the characters and then the characters can die really easily without leaving the scope of "balanced" encounters while CoC is a non-combat focused TTRPG that brings a lot of danger to the table since it's a horror based game. Any TTRPG that's not focused on combat but includes danger, especially if player fear is a part of the game's goal, is likely a system built with the ideology that lives are cheap
Killing your players characters, right?
Not killing the players themselves?
HAHAHAHA yes. Characters, not the people
@@IdCritThat oh that's what I've been doing wrong!
Depends on your players, if your players are baby faced babies who cry like babies then probably don't kill em unless you want to make them cry.
I DMd for a woman I work with and her family years ago. Her youngest was 8. The child played a Tabaxi Wizard who only ever engaged in melee combat scratching things with their claws because "I'm a cat, cats scratch things." and since it was hard to argue with that logic I just let it roll. And of course her character died. She cried for like an hour. :/
I mean you probably shouldn't have killed an 8 year old's character...that's a literal child
Stompin' an 8yr olds char, prolly not the greatest idea....
@@IdCritThat Well I know that now. lol In my defense it was the first time I DMd for children.
hahaha that's fair then! yeah DMing for kids is like a whole different game
Is character death part of the game? Then there's literally no problem with killing off the player characters, unless you're being a vindictive asshole about it.
I mean yeah that's our point, that antagonistic DMs are too quick and easy with it for the sake of being the bad guy
@@IdCritThat I think some DMs overcorrect in the other direction and bend things to save characters, when that's not really in the spirit of D&D. Life is cheap, roll a new character.
I should probably watch the actual video now, haha. Just felt like throwing in my two cents first for some reason.