Woolie: "John, in order to de-escalate things for once, I recommend that you help out a charity. An orphanage or something." John: "Woolie, I can't believe you're making me kill some child's parents"
Shame; John had a running bit during his streaming of F&H of bragging about how he'd never lost a fight to a child. Now it seems his winning streak has been broken.
Nah, that wasn't an official sanctioned fight, thus the streak remains intact. That child only lives by the grace of the FINAL GAMER! Had the child been brave enough to step in the ring, they would've been DESTROYED!
I saw this comment before starting the podcast and I assumed it was about the baby boss in Darkest Dungeon 2. I was NOT prepared for the start of the podcast.
Woolie: "John, this week I'd like to recommend you a banana. You can go out, buy a bunch, and if you eat one and decide you like it, you can finish the bunch throughout the wee-" John: "SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT ME TO GIVE MYSELF BANANA POISONING? IS THAT IT WOOLIE? DO YOU SEE WHAT THIS MAN DOES?"
Ghost of christmas john: "No one told you to play F&H like a madman, Woolie! You did this to yourself!" John of Christmas Present: "If I can't make a miracle comeback in Dokapon within 3 tries I have to play Shenmue 3 on hard". Ghost of John Future, playing Shenmue 3 on hard: "I can't believe Woolie did this to me".
John strikes me as a man who likes adding a bit of danger to his chores. It's not good enough that he has to put in a little bit of work to mow the lawn... He has to set up a minefield, too.
"missing a fighting game tournament" being in the pantheon of greatness forever is honestly kinda fortuitous. "Is this better or worse than doing nothing" is a useful barometer to have on the list.
Doing nothing implies he just forgot to leave the house and go to the tournament, this is way worse, he was 90% getting to the tournament with paid hotel and all, but due to his dyslexia ass he arrived the minute everything ended so it way worse than doing nothing, it's failing at the finish line.
I am loving the story of the jujutsu child who for some reason has been moulded to have the same mental processes as a baby crocodile. Just immediately chokes someone out fully on instinct just because she happens to be awake and someone grab-able is nearby.
john: recommends favorite combat sport woolie: alright, bet woolie: recommends favorite combat sport in reciprocal gesture john: NOOOOO WHAT THE FUCK, WHAT THE FUCK NO AAAAA YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME, YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL THE FINAL GAMER NOOOO DUDE FUCK MAN, NO FUCK MAN DUDE FUCK NO WHY
Therapist: so is this "certain percentage of the audience" in the room with us right now? John: yes, and they all agree that Woolie is trying to get me. (the Therapist is Woolie)
The karma from not suplexing that child payed off in that grievously wounded old man lending John his bike to get to the concert on time so he can prove to his wife he isn't a disappointment. That sentence should not exist in reference to non-fictional events.
What really makes John a villain is his insatiable need to twist anything that happens to make himself the punished underdog hero He’d light his own house on fire so he could blame Woolie for introducing him to matches
You've really put it into words, it's not that his individual actions are villainous or even just more villainous than woolie's, I genuinely agree with John that woolie has done the majority of intentional escalation on this podcast, and yet despite all that when I'm rooting for John I still feel like I'm rooting for the bad guy.
Woolie's recommendation this month is to go to a new gym take a beginner's boxing lesson; aka the sport where you get punched in the face! What, you think Jon is some martial arts guy who's moving this month and this recommendation is a great reason for him to find a new gym and make sparring friends at his new town HE'S MOVING TO?!
Friendly reminder that when John reccomended Brazilian Jiu Jitsu he literally told Woolie to "get tapped out" by a black belt. John totally threw the first stone.
"I feel like I could draw a Behelit and a Buster Sword on a napkin, and you'd recommend it to me in two months' time" -Woolie from the Lost Versus Wolves Episode
I feel that based on how John has spoken regarding Berserk and Muira's death that regardless of quality of Berserk after his death, he would always feel the way described in this podcast. This isn't a slight, I just get the impression that conciously or subconciously, no matter what happened, he was always going to feel this way.
I agree, I think when Miura passed, in John’s heart the story was done. I feel like most of his issues with where the story is going in new chapters is where Miura was going anyway
@@danielcanavan-gosling5118 It makes sense as to why he would have Woolie stop at Miura's last chapter before going into it. whether planned or not it sets Woolie up with the same bias John has going into it. Had Woolie not been informed prior, I doubt he would be on that same page as John.
Woolie, there’s a very obvious reason for Griffith to kidnap Casca. It’s almost certainly to keep him from leaving Falconia on the one day a month that he’s a defenseless two year old child.
I’m kinda surprised at how… Simplistic your look onto a couple of chapters of Berserk is. To me, the whole thing is an analogy of real life for Koji Mori after the loss of his best friend. He lost Kentaro, not just a friend but someone he also closely worked with, and so shared not just in friendship but in art, for decades. Someone he probably went through an unimaginable amount of things with. Guts loses Casca. Koji was definitely broken by Miura’s passing, and probably questioned the point of anything, including perfecting his art without Miura, just like Guts does questions what the point of all his training and struggle was if this is the result. I allow myself to assume because having lost my best friend myself, I know for a fact that you end up in a hell of a bad place where life itself feels completely pointless for a good while. I thought it was a stunningly beautiful way to continue the story Miura created, by laying in subtext what Mori probably experienced too. The way I see it evolve, at least I hope it goes that way, is that Guts goes back to his dream of just being the strongest. To accept that his passion for his sword and swordsmanship is what’s always driven him, and that ultimately this dream is what will help him get to Casca. Help him clear the situation with Griffith. Maybe that’s where Gut’s victory will be even. In the fact that he reached a point where he achieved his dream while Griffith never truly did, sacrificed all he had, and is now surrounded by unloving pawns who ultimately care little to none about him, while Guts is a simple human who can go up against a god while surrounded by friends and love. I don’t see the save the princess thing at all, and I find it kinda sad to see that whole plot element being reduced to just that when to me there’s clearly more to it. There’s a lot I could say but I’m not gonna write a whole book, no one will read anyway lol Anyways, Miura isn’t here anymore. Berserk will never be the same. But to me Mori just proved that he understands and relates to Berserk on a level so deep he’s not afraid of injecting some of his very own being into it. And that’s fucking beautiful in my opinion.
Some very important bits of Kathy lore that John neglected to mention: -John left the final dungeon because he was informed the gap between first and second was too high, even with the final boss and bonuses. His only hope was to save towns. So logically, he decided to fight Kathy of his own volition instead. -Kathy had barely any cash, her gear was comparable to everyone else's, and stealing a single town or stalling her for a couple of turns would've been negligible. John literally had nothing to gain from the fight and lost everything to Gabrielle's betrayal for a fight he didn't even have to do. -Steve, despite John saying he didn't matter, was in second place for almost the entirety of the last two streams. He spent the penultimate chapter gathering towns after the last Global Assault and slowly went up the ranks, managing to beat both John and Gabrielle through good old hard work. -Even if John beat the final boss and somehow acquired every bonus, Kathy would've still been in the lead by roughly 10 million gold. Her castles alone made up almost the entire gap between second and first place. It is physically impossible for John to beat Kathy no matter how many turns he goes back. The gap is literally insurmountable. -Kathy, despite being the stuff of John's nightmares, won roughly the equivalent to what Minh earned in Woolie's Dokapon Kingdom campaign. Reggie also earned more than everyone except Kathy. Woolie would have lost to Gabrielle and Steve, but still earned more than John, needless to say.
Just a tiny correction; Steve came third in the end. But yeah, he was fighting for that second place with Gabrielle while John made a fool of himself trying to get the attention of his crush Kathy
My theory is that moonlight child always goes to Casca so Griffith's reason for kidnapping her is keeping that part of him under control and my only way I'll accept the damsel making of her is if she takes her own agency back and breaks out of the cage herself
I will say I think John and Woolz are coping a bit over Berserk, while we don't know what Miura did or didn't share with his publisher/friend. I would expect that these early post Miura chapters already had drafts or notes about their contents. I imagine we wont know what Miura shared until after the series is complete but I don't think is fair to say "It's not the same" when they have only written like 10 chapters
Yeah, the world is unraveling at the seams. Griffith just took Casca, the Kushans are planning their next move, their hasn’t been time for the character moments John wants, it’s been go go go because that’s probably what was meant to happen. I am highly skeptical that the writers just made up their own story for casca getting taken and guts being overcome with despair when it happened literally the chapter after Miuras last, I’m sure his staff and assistants knew what Miura was going to have happen immediately after
If John followed up the Childhood's End joke with a comment along the lines of "I showed that kid the Lights in the Sky are Stars", I woulda instantly joined the patreon, personal finances be damned
I think I saw Mouri mention once that while Miura laid the whole plot down for him, there are some details he doesn't remember clearly or didn't get much info on, and said that he was not going to elaborate on plot points he didn't have a solid grasp of or couldn't remember. To me, that set the tone of what to expect from New Berserk, that it was, deliberately, going to be something of a CliffNotes version of what might have been the ending. I think that lets me be a little easier on it than people who have been fans of the story for decades. In all honestly, I would be VERY curious about what an anime adaptation could expand on, being unburdened by the expectation of having to continue Miura's work directly and allowed to let some these plot points breathe more.
Thats under the assumption it would be under people like Araki and Hayashi of Attack on Titan who have a lot of creative freedom to alter or improve presentation rather than follow up what came before, or Bleach TYBW being a marriage of the original author's direct input for the anime and Taguchi and his staff's creative freedom bec many adaptations these days, even the creative and high quality ones like JJK, Frieren, and Dandadan, to name very few, will always stick firmly to the manga text
On my end, while I can understand the negative sentiments of the mere idea of a restricted Berserk continuation, Mouri is a very good author and has an actual connection to Miura we will never understand and Mouri knows how the fans also put Miura on a pedestal, which adds pressure on his end Berserk's continuation is a constant conscious exercise of reverence and respect when applied rather than an attempt to downplay a friend performing a legacy work. Not everyone can or is willing to commit to said exercise and we should understand but may it not be a means to harass Mouri or the fandom. Because we need this continuation to happen within natural terms.
For anyone wondering how Woolie “ruined” the charity stream, when John called Woolie on stream he let Woolie know that because of some chat shenanigans Woolie could force John to restart the game that he was playing. Because John was so concerned that Woolie might force him to restart, John made a grievous error and lost his run. John then yelled about it being Woolie’s fault for a couple of minutes. Did Woolie use that ability to end John’s run? No. Did Woolie act in any way to make John think he would use the ability? No. Why does John call this Woolie ruining the stream? No idea.
59:31 Don’t worry John, we remember the details of how you lost your passport: You left Heck in an attempt to get more money to reach first place and stated the following. "I'm gonna beat Kathy, I'm gonna take all her money, and then I'm gonna kill the final boss. This is the Final Gamer's Plan, and it's going to work." -John, 6:46 pm GMT, August 14th, 2024 Then Kathy used a sleep spell on you, and then proceeded to one shot you with a strike. Afterwards Chat began repeatedly posting the following quote: "I'm gonna beat Kathy, I'm gonna take all her money, and then I'm gonna kill the final boss. This is the Final Gamer's Plan, and it's going to work." -John, 6:46 pm GMT, August 14th, 2024 Happy to help 😊
I’m sure John has been very happy that his fans are keeping him humble. I’m sure no sarcasm has escaped his mouth while Kathy stole his crown as the Final Gamer
personally, im hoping that casca and guts have parallel arcs of regaining their agency and resolve through this new lowest point in their lives, and will meet each other as equals again
I'm like 99% sure that what happened between Guts, Griffith and Casca would go pretty much the same way, even if Miura was the one to write it. I know Woolie directly addresses it, but I'm sure the reaction from the John, Woolie and the fans would not be close to what it was.
Yea, nothing about the recent volume felt offscript to how this story has previously played out. Griffith has been a constant looming threat throughout the story, iirc in like 1-2 volumes before Gedfring at one point asks him if pursuing Griffith is even worth it and Guts quietly ponders it before the events of the recent volume. It just seemed that Griffith got tired of being ignored and decided to do something so Guts would acknowledge him again. That doesn't seem out of character for any of the cast that Miura thought up.
This podcast must be what people who like Death Note feel while watching Death Note. Shoutout to Woolie for outsourcing, punching his friend in the face, truly a master of strategy.
See I would be more open to John's insistence that he's the unjustly maligned underdog in this podcast, but I sent him a chatter message in his stream earlier today before this was up and asked him when the episode was coming out, and he got really quiet and somber and really convincingly gaslit everyone into thinking that the podcast was cancelled because it was affecting his friendship with Woolie, and it almost made me shit myself before he went "haha just joking, it's coming out today! gotcha!" This man cannot resist being a villain and that's why I'll die before I see him as the hero
John makes me think of an Infernal Exalted from the TTRPG "Exalted" who is actually a good guy but has to appease his dark patrons by being as deceitful, dramatic, and extra as Bond villains. Just while, y'know, doing normal things.
I’ve been enjoying the new berserk a lot because it feels to me like an allegory for what the team have been going through, the same way that Miura would put so much of himself into Berserk. It’s been misery after misery of seeing the long and hard road to getting Casca back and feeling okay again. And just like Miura’s passing it is ripped away from us just like Casca is ripped away from Guts, in a manner completely out of our control that gives us nothing but sadness and despair. And everything about new berserk feels like that to me, Guts’ sword is heavier after losing Casca because the Pen the artist team uses to draw is heavier without Miura. It has its problems but it’s struck a deep melancholic chord with me everytime a new chapter has dropped and I’m very much looking forward to where they go.
Yeah this is basically my feelings on it as well. I can understand the skepticism that they have about Casca being kidnapped, but I also feel as though this is a move that Griffith would make. I feel like they just need to give them more time to flesh the story out more before they fully judge it. Yes, it's been 3 years, but in actuality, we've only gotten 10 chapters of a new author desperately trying to continue a 366 chapter story written by his late friend
For me the motivation for Griffith kidnapping Casca was fairly obvious at the end of 364 and the new chapters - whenever Griffith turns into the moonlight child, the child seeks its mother. However he gets there (world tree, most likely, though it's been a minute so I may be misremembering), he gets there. Whenever Griffith is in this state, he's vulnerable, and not exactly in control of his actions. My assumption is once Griffith figured this out, he was going to kidnap Casca and keep her in Falconia, so that he doesn't transport back to Guts and the party. Whether or not he knew that they'd be in Elfheim I forget. I don't necessarily dislike the idea that she's (again) a bird in a cage, I just wish we got more detail on beyond a 20-ish page chapter Otherwise I do agree - for me the actual plot motivations are making sense, but there really is that sense of character depth missing, especially with Guts and Casca. It's one of those things where I really do think an adequate anime adaptation of the work would do wonders, because it would maybe allow for *a* scene where the two talk (maybe with Casca behind a door and Guts on the other side), where the reminisce or discuss what happens, and there's a TON you can explore there
7:30 The big concern I'd have about the 7 year old girl, is that if she isn't humbled soon she'll do this to other kids. If she's effective enough to make an adult see stars, she could really do some damage to a fellow 7 year old. Alternatively, if she pulls that on a kid with a similar aggro who retaliates with some serious violence :(
I'm not going to lie, the discussion at the end felt like two people who never actually read Beserk Or at least never actually understood Casca's journey "Why is Casca (an incredibly intelligent woman) playing along with Griffith's game after being captured" She clearly dislikes the situation but knows she has no choice but to bide her time "Why did they have that bit about her preffering the armour but then she's back in a dress?" That's literally the point, it shows that Griffith's desire for Casca is not and has never been in line with who she is and that she can never be forced to fit in to the 'perfect world' that he created "Why did Griffith even take Casca? Is it just to create a reason for Guts to go after him?" SHE'S LITERALLY HIS MOTHER, THROUGH THE FETUS BABY THING AND THE EGG CAUSING HIS REBIRTH ITS A MAJOR PART OF HER STORY AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOONLIGHT CHILD IS THE INNOCENT PART OF HER CHILD THAT WAS CORRUPTED BY GRIFFITH BOTH DURING AND AFTER THE ECLIPSE It's genuinely disappointing that these guys seem to be so blinded by nostalgia that they can't see deeper than the surface for the post-miura content It's no different to anybody who reads the original Beserk and comes away with "it's just an edgy dude with a big sword"
I think you're being a bit too harsh with their stance at new Berserk. Take into account they just read all of this barely a couple hours before recording. It's a lot to process, not just narratively, but emotionally. That said, while I do think Griffith's reason to kidnap Casca (while there are valid theories) is still largely unclear, Casca's current position (IMO) is not one of servitude. She's been shown as that in the outside, very clearly brainwshed; but we're shown a lot of pure struggle within. the real Casca is still there, fighting to get out. The development she had is not only not gone, but it's (again, IMO) set up to take center stage as she'll need it to escape on her own. Maybe she'll encounter Luca and she can lend a hand, idk. My point is, Mori and Gaga are marvelous storytellers, and while they're still learning to write these characters, I can see them 'getting there'
For Berserk, to me it wasn't a surprise that Caska was kidnapped, because it follows the trajectory established by Miura in showing Griffith through the lense of the hero of a fantasy story. So he didn't kidnapped the princess, he rescued her. 2. I don't thing that the biggest reason for Guts being broken is Caska, I think it's because he was betrayed by the only thing he could ever rely on, his sword. It failed him in the most crucial moment. Sure he lost Caska because of it, but it's because of it... 3. Maybe I need to go reread the chapter with Caska in Falconia, but it seemed to me like she was under a spell or something there. I also think that without her founding a party inside Falconia any attack will fail. Like with the attack on the pervert old guy fort in the Kushian war, she will be the one to make Falconia fall. Lastly I know John said he gave it a fair shot and I believe he felt that way, but to me it seems like he expected to be let down and if those exact chapter were written by Miura, he would have gave him the benefit of the doubt that it would have been well executed. Also good job to the kid who choked John
I appreciate that for how silly and chaotic this show can be and how much John likes to play a heel for fun that he and Woolie can use this for some actually pretty raw and meaningful stuff. Berserk means a lot to many people and John wears that so much on his sleeve which is lovely to see and it's nice they could take this dive together even if it didn't go where John wanted.
So hey Berserk spoilers I guess just in case anyone is in Woolie's old spoiler arc. So, I don't think we were ever going to see what was going to happen between Guts and Casca so soon. Griffith appeared, that was going to delay their healing in some way. What we have now may not be exactly where it was supposed to go, but it was immediately after Miura's final chapter so it couldn't have been totally blind. I think leaning into Guts and the way he feels about his sword, the safety, the certainty, and taking that away from him when it fails to stop Griffith was, as with everything else about the continuation, the best they could do in the circumstance. Not knowing where it was really going, doing this to "pull the bow back" in Woolie's words makes sense. Casca's loss is the primary impetus for Guts breaking, but it was the failure of his sword to cut Griffith that sends him spiraling. He swings, and the world does not explode. That point of nuance of Guts spiraling because of his own belief faltering, not just because Casca was taken is I think a hopeful sign that we won't end up with Casca just being a damsel in distress. His faith in his sword is a big part of who Guts is that's kept him going in this messed up world. If they're going in a direction where he overcomes his emotional need for it, and grows a little past his emotional clumsiness in other ways, I think that's a good choice. I have an idea where the trajectory might be going. Guts being in the custody of the Kushan, how they want to resist Griffith, there are some things to read into. But it's just so early anything could easily be wrong.
@@fantomflasch2289 You can. You just have to reach a new level of enlightenment first. That's what'll happen to him when he joins the boys for Dokapon Season 3😂
Casca has always been a damsel in distress. Even when she wore armor and a sword, she was always getting her clothes ripped off and Guts needed to save her. The only fight she actually wins is a comedy fight against an cartoonish idiot villain.
With all these recommendations related to fighting and fighting styles, I think Woolie and Eyepatch are just training each other to be the ultimate rival until the final episode of vs. Wolves is a Yakuza battle at the top of a skyscraper.
I think we gotta give New Berserk some time man, I agree with everything said but I can see a path where things still end up satisfying. I would like to see Casca & Griffith have a verbal boss battle now for instance. Edit: Woolie I promise you will love JJK S2, S1 will probably go over just okay.
I came to this video as a casual fan of both creators to hear their thoughts on Berserk's continuation as i know for John it's his absolute favorite thing ever and since this was the most insightful and down to the point discussion about it I've heard so far in online spaces I wanted to shout my own thoughts about it into the UA-cam comment section void. I can feel John's pain when he talks about not wanting to start reading the new chapters, the possibility of being dissapointed and your ''favourite thing'' not being as good or the characters as alive as he put it anymore and as Berserk has been my ''#1 favourite thing ever'' for so many years as well, i can feel the heartbreak and i felt the same to a degree, but my view on it is a bit different and I'd like to put it out there if anyone happens to read this. For a long time after Miura died, every time i even thought about Berserk (despite re-reading it at the time) i was overflowing with this feeling of despair, just not being able to accept that Miura was gone and there would be no more of his genius or Berserk. But overtime, as with all things, time turns those feelings into acceptance and when the new chapters started coming out, instead of drawing these hard lines in my mind that ''Berserk died with Miura'' or ''I'm glad i get to see Berserk end'' i sort of separated Berserk as a whole into 3 ''things''. One being Miura's Berserk, the second being the Gaga & Mori continuation which could just not be good or even passable, and the 3rd, the hopeful scenario, ''Berserk continues and it feels similar as with Miura, created with love and care for their friend''. When i thought about it this way i really couldn't be disappointed no matter what eventually would happen with it, i would still have what i originally fell in love with or i would see the faithful continuation created with love of Miura by his dear friends. In time i went from curious to cautiously optimistic to surprisingly hopeful about the 3rd option. And on the date of writing this, aside from the abysmal release schedule (Gaga members have multiple times mentioned on twitter that chapters have been done and have been sent to publishing ages ago but they're just not being released) I'm very excited to keep reading Berserks continuation and I whole heartedly believe it's going to get even better. After the 10 or so chapters, reading them when they released my thoughts on it are that the team is improving at a steady, but surprisingly fast pace. The initial first chapter was rough, the art wasn't really up to Miura's (impossible) quality or even an emulation of it, the paneling and art clarity of scenes wasn't great, characters weren't really allowed to be themselves and the plot moved at lightning speed. To be fair to them, while Miura unfortunately or fortunately left the story at a thematically perfect spot to (to put it very morbidly) die on, following up that chapter and trying to emulate his way of creating manga is impossible which is why i personally give the first few chapters some leeway. Like John said, Miura was a MASTER of drawing the eye with his paneling and creating even the most complex art pieces that were incredibly clear to look at and understand but i feel like the team at Gaga is steadily getting there with their art getting better by the chapter with more and more talking, characters behaving like themselves and the art finding its footing. Now, it's impossible to say where the story itself is going so its also impossible to really completely judge it like Woolie said. To me it feels exactly like when i was reading the boat arc and waiting for the chapters to drop and it feeling like forever with nothing really happening but when you re-read it or read it when it was complete, it felt well paced and exciting, or if i we're to compare it to something older that Miura talked about in one of his interviews, about how the Eclipse was received extremely poorly when it was originally released. Readers at the time really weren't happy how all their favorite characters were just massacred and killed off at the time (Even if the black swordsman arc existing beforehand would give you a good clue) and if i had to bet, it would have felt fairly similar to this. It's really hard or even impossible to judge plot points being set sometimes when they're happening and even if i agree how Casca's kidnapping feels like an incredibly cheap way to move story pieces forward, I don't believe it was an amateur mistake from Mori or Gaga and i think it was always the plan for Miura (even though if he did it, it would have probably been executed with more finesse and grace). I think everything happened very fast in the new chapters, which i feel like was their ORIGINAL goal in the announcement of the continuation, to only give us ''What Mori remembers'' and not speculating or adding what he doesn't. As for the Casca chapter in Falconia, I thought it to be very clear that she was under a spell or at the least, not in her right mind. She wakes up to the reality of the situation and lashes out at the end of the chapter as Casca would in that situation and is immediately put back into the spell and to sleep. I don't believe they character assassinated her by making her 'accept her situation' of being a damsel in distress and i have a feeling we're going to be getting chapters focusing only on Casca and her escape or activities in Falconia. I do also want to extend the possibility of your personal opinion of the chapters changing (for better or for worse) if you re-read the whole of Berserk up until the latest chapter as i feel there might be a small (even if fairly justified) rose glasses situation where not having read the original in so long and then jumping straight into the new chapters will give you whiplash and be a really hard transition line. This brings me to my next point which is about Mori and the way he is adapting his friends story. Ever since the announcement that Berserk will be continuing under Mori and Gaga, there's been a few ideas about how the continuation is handled. A lot of times when people talk about Mori's recollection of Berserk's end they refer to the interview in which he talks about how Miura invited him over to help him flesh out the overarching story some 30-ish years ago. I think people interpret this as Mori trying to recall Berserks story from that 30 year old conversation about its story and like John mentions, Berserk most likely if not even certainly has changed and the story that was thought up back then would be different from the one Miura was writing before his death. I feel like that is not the case and the reason for my interpretation is because Mori has been mentioned in countless interviews by Miura going back multiple years such as talking about their relationship being the basis for Griffith and Guts and so on but what i find to be the most interesting are the interviews where he mentions going to Mori for help on the story of Berserk and to talk about each others manga in general, and if Mori is to be believed from his short manga about Miura, this was very frequent and very recent. According to Mori, they would talk to each other almost every week. This leads me to interpret this so that Mori is aware of how Berserk continues and eventually ends with very recent information and ideas and it is the execution that the team is lacking to realize this insurmountable task of finishing Berserk. I've always read Miura's interviews along the years but going back to read most of them after Miura's passing and Mori's current ones really opens your eyes to how good friends these two were and how often they influenced each other in their work. As most people probably agree, Berserk is in the best of hands it could ever be, and if you go re-read some interviews you might come to the same interpretation as i have that Mori's recollections are far more recent that most people believe. Most of this is just my personal interpretations about things and i could be very wrong in 10 chapters time but unlike what was originally announced about the ''footnotes'' version of Berserk of only Mori's memories, i think the team realized after a few chapters that they couldn't really do that and are using Mori's understanding of the story, and then using their own artistic abilities to add on top to create the on going story. In the short few chapters we've gotten I think the team has already started to stretch their legs at what they're comfortable in adding themselves and are gradually improving at it. It is my hope (maybe foolishly so) that Mori and the team at Gaga realize fully that instead of doing the story beats of Berserk without delving into the details, the way for their continuation to shine is to really insert themselves into the work, allowing the characters to exist, writing what they feel the scenes need and creating ''their'' Berserk continuation while following the original as close as they can. It already is not the same, it will never be the same as with Miura, but the best i feel they can do as artists and mangakas is to put their all into it and not just lifelessly try to emulate Miura and finish it. If you feel like Berserk ended with Miura's death, then it did. It did for me as well. If i somehow could get one wish from a genie from a bottle 10/10 times i would wish for Miura back, that's how much i respected him and his work and how much i wish he wasn't gone. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind with this long ass comment, it was just posted to just write my feelings about the series continuation and sort of a soft response to the podcast as well. At the very least if you read this and you were on the fence of continuing Berserk or if you were already following it but weren't really feeling it like John isn't, i hope i at least gave you a new perspective to view it from.
To me it's to early to judge the new berserk. The team only started and was left in a very difficult moment in the story. Every new chapter is only getting better and I hope the charracter writing will improve with time. Also there is no way that the current story direction when it comes to Casca and Guts were caused by the new writer to put characters where he needs them. It happened right after Miura's last chapter and the team had to know what he wanted to write in the next couple chapters. Miura would definitely write it better, but let's not make the new writer a sacrificial goat for the inclusion of story elements we don't like.
Yeah. I agree. I think the art is rough immediately after Miura's last chapter, but it's steadily getting better and not much has happened to really gauge how well they're going to handle the story
@@TheLeftistOwl Hell I think a big part of why the art was so unclear is because it was trying to show an active transformation. The troll cave was better but when it started falling apart with Guts and Skull Knight inside it also lost some of its visual clarity.
Big agree i understood their points but I think it’s unrealistic to think the next few chapters post death weren’t written out by miura, obviously dialog and paneling aren’t exactly what he would have done to a T but I think even if he hadn’t died these next chapters would have played out near identically to how the hsve plot wise
Definitely agree. I think they kind of did this a disservice by both of them reading the new volume literal hours before recording, and I also don't really think there is enough new material to give a good impression of the quality of the story going forward. John's criticisms are a bit unfair imo when you consider the new writer is here to end berserk not continue it. Miura wrote an amazing journey with amazing characters, but to be honest even long before his final chapter I felt it was very easy to see that he wanted to continue writing berserk but no longer knew how he wanted to end the series. A part of me is skeptical that he ever actually would've finished berserk, and it's possible towards his passing he never really intended to.
What do they expect Casca to do? She still has no means to defend herself and knows Griffith is somehow her child. Weird thing to harp on when they are following a vague outline its not flat fanfic.
Hey Jon this is like going in to the first act of a sequel and leaving the theater 20 mins in. While i understand your trepidations the nee berserk is still very very much in setup phase, so many questions left to answer, i say let it go for a few years then if you want and comeback when they claim its all finished thats gonna be your best case scenario for coming back to this work
On the topic of new Berserk, i think what needs to be addressed, and what always needed to be addressed, is that Guts rage cannot co-exist with Casca. I think Skull Knight symbolises this perfectly, he is never angry. Hes always focused, to the point, never emotional, and he KICKS. ASS. And i think with the back story you get of him, the intention is "I could not let go of my rage in time". Thats why he calls him the Struggler, he KNOWS. He knows "This is bad, you need to grow". And i think Griffith also knows this. So the constantly pulling Casca away, while it hurts.. its true. Its not right. Thats not what they need. Its all well and good pulling Casca back in, but not when Guts is the same. Guts cannot just see Griffith and "do his Guts thing". He needs to change, he needs to let go. I think thats what Miura was building to, and its why things keep going wrong for Guts. I would be completely unsurprised if by the end, Guts has all by abandoned his rage, the Berserker armour gone, potentially the Dragonslayer gone as well, for just a regular sized Greatsword, or even a different weapon altogether like Skull Knights Sword and Shield, to "protect the ones dear to him" both literally and metaphorically. What Berserk ultimately is, is a journey of dealing with trauma, and it needs to end with weight off his shoulders. I think the new Berserk team, while very early, are cooking as hot as possible with the impossible job they have. Edit: I also realise that Casca putting on the dress, and just kind seeming out of it and crying, is because shes trying to get BACK to the moment she was happiest, which was her and Guts, dancing in the ballroom. Thats her happiest moment, thats what she desires the most, but she realises she cant have it, when Guts isnt also there and with so much pain yet unhealed. As much as Berserk has been a journey about "fixing Casca", its as much a journey of fixing Guts, and he is currently more broken than hes ever been.
I think if you guys are concerned about how long the ranking segments will take in the future it may be a good idea to divide into tiers and then work from there. It’ll probably greatly cut out the bulk of saying “Is it better than the 3 worst things in the universe.” This podcast is definitely one of my favorite things I’ve experienced this year. Absolutely in love with it.
1:11:50 I can see the despair in John’s eyes, he’s fully aware of the sheer depth and ludicrousness of his hubris but even he questions if he has committed too hard to the bit this time.
Low key think the Berserk intermission lounge should go public, the Black Swordsman, Lost Children, Conviction, Millennium Falcon arcs, and most of Fantasia all got sandbagged in discussion imo.
How Poetic is it that Kouji Mori's pen must feel as heavy to him in his insurmountable ordeal of continuing Berserk as the Dragon Slayer must feel to Guts... Fitting... isn't it?
40:27 "I can't help but feel that looking at my watch every 2 minutes and being like 'i sure hope that ambulance gets here soon' maybe detracted from some of the-" Shut the f*ck up John. You could've just left that man there alone and gone back to your house at any moment. Actually remaining there, even if reticently, until there was any actual help coming and someone to stay beside him in your place is a genuine morally good deed, arguably even more so under the circumstances you were in.
I can’t wait for john to find out that all the rolls in dokopon are predetermined at the start of every game. Meaning that going back to his old save won’t actually help because he literally can’t get better rolls.
My problem with their discussion about the post-Miura Berserk is they have no idea what was and wasn't planned to happen by Miura himself, and I feel if these were Miura chapters some of these complaints would either be lessened or just non-existent.
Listen John, I know you have your shared history with Woolie and are now his honorary brother and all, but if he tries to sell you some sort of pass, do not trust him. His intentions are not pure.
I'm not fully caught up on New Berserk, but I wilk say that having Casca whisked away immediately following the death of Miura did produce a cosmicly appropriate sense of hopelessness and loss.
With these revelations, we need them both to wear contrasting colors whenever their on screen together, and see if we can't arrange a dramatic throw-down in the middle of a thunderstorm
I think the thing about lines like "lethality writ large" is that they're meant to reflect the current emotional state of the fight, with the one John mentioned in particular being to hype you up about something cool that you did. It's the same thing as Killer Instinct going "INSAAAANE COMBO" Having a fight swing from lines like "dazed, reeling, about to break", to "brought low, and driven into the mud!" is part of what makes DD's fights so visceral and fun. edit- I will say though, I think Darkest Dungeon 1 had much more memorable narrator lines. "The match is struck, a blazing star is born" is permanently etched in my brain.
I want to believe that Caska is back. Maybe damaged and struggling but still that strong person who held the band of the falcon together for that year and would step up to fight anyone. So I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, but that's not the kind of character to sit passively in a tower and I want to see how she confronts her situation. And Guts and co still have a lot of growing to do. LOL at Woolie saying to John "Jab, Hook, Uppercut, Feel my blow when it impacts up your gut"
There's an extra aspect to the hero progression they didnt touch on I love. The heros arent just remembering their past, theyre forgiving themselves for the failures and refocusing on their skills. The Man at Arms personifies this because he starts as a tank who wants to sacrifice himself for the party because he doesn't trust himself to give orders. When his confession finishes, he realizes he has the skill the lead, he just made one small mistake that had unforeseeable consequences.
To be fair, Miura is the one that ended with the Casca getting captured cliff hanger. This was set up before he died. So its not like the team led it to this direction. Theyre just working from what was setup beforehand.
On the Berserk section, I'm 90% with John that the in-the-moment experience of Berserk definitely feels off and regardless of what the rest of my comment says, it's not likely going to fix that phantom pain. But my brain is a little more like Woolie's, in that I do see a pretty worthwhile long game with Casca being captured. Possibly. My biggest issue with the manga, even before Mori took the reins, is Casca having no agency for so much of the story even down to her own recovery. Sure, it has been a series-long journey with Guts, Farnese, and Shierke that got us to the "Do you still remember Guts" scene. But Casca was a potato, she didn't confront her traumas or fight inner demons, magic just "healed" her condition. If anything, I think Casca having a mental block from seeing Guts again as well as being taken away from her support network finally gives her another chance to approach her trauma on her own terms. While I was briefly bummed out that we were robbed of Casca getting hot potato'd from one man's desire to another man's desire again, I see a lot of potential in the premise. Casca is trapped with the Band of the Hawk again, but this time she isn't just deluded into seeing Griffith as a god, he IS one now. Casca is being incarcerated in the worst abusive, ex-boyfriend locked room scenario (with happens to not only encompass a massive kingdom, it's the whole world) with no armor, weapons, magic, or friends left to help her. Worse, she can't even look Griffith in the eye without shutting down again! Rather than lament over "not this shit again" I'm more asking, "how the hell is she going to get out of this?" If Mori's team chooses to just make her imprisonment just a couple of panels where Casca is helpless until Gut's team arrives, then... shit that will suck. But this might be an opportunity for Casca to start over her healing process on her own terms. Imagine a Casca covertly gathering allies while under Griffith's nose. Slowly piecing that the hero that she once considered her everything has been a control freak all along and is doing the same with the entire planet. Then finally, when she can meet Guts again she'll have conquered her trauma for good. If the cards are played right, I think there's a fantastic story to tell here.
Kathy's raw hater energy fueled that child. John thought he was safe; he is never safe. EDIT: What the holy hell was that Berserk segment? Casca gave up? Guts regressing? What's Griffith's motivation for having Casca? Guys, if you've read the series how do you not grasp this: Griffith has *always* had a fixation on the old Band. Even Rickert got away with pimp slapping him, and his incarnations as the moonlight child have always, every single time, been drawn to/fixated on Guts and Casca. He 'lost' Guts, and then saw him 'take' Casca away after the rescue. It's been mentioned since way back in the Golden Age how Griffith is, in his way, like a child. He wants what he wants and that's the end of it. Guts and Casca survived the eclipse and he clearly, on some level, still wants them. If he wanted them dead, he'd have murdered Casca the instant Alfheim was infiltrated and likely Guts as well. Zodd was right there, Guts was on his knees - no better chance to do away with both of them, if Griffith wanted to. Casca's odd fugue state whilst she was dressed isn't that odd considering there's a moment - kind of ignored here - where she seems to snap out of it and starts raging; guards rush in and surround her and she brains one of them with a vase, immediately HK's another in the gut and disarms him. After which she sprints away, dress torn, freaking out in her thought bubble that "Go back! I have to get back! If I don't make it back - then Guts -!" and thereupon passes out. Irvine reports to Griffith a page later about how "the bird slumbers in her cage; her flight over.", directly suggesting that she didn't just decide to sit down and turn off the Rage mode. Something suppressed her and forced her into that docile state. Casca is not "the princess to be rescued". She's more back than she has been since the Eclipse, and it's readily apparent that something is trying to bury the part of her that is clearly bent on resisting. I was bracing to cover Guts as well - such as how his sword didn't get "stopped by Griffith's hair", wtf, it cut a strand off. Griffith, the guy who force-repelled that blade wholesale during the Black Swordsman arc, now can be touched on some level by it - but Woolie just hit the point of trying to draw a parallel between Berserk and fucking *SAO* and that's the red line. If you two don't like the new thing, fair play, but there's a whole hell of a lot of dodgy spite here that paints the two of you as tourists, not fans. "Not my cast/not my art" etc; someone who really loves the lessons, the humanity bleeding from Berserk's pages would still follow this tale to whatever end. Look at ONE - even if art quality is garbo, the heart and soul of a story can still resonate with people. Berserk is more than strong enough that even if it looked like absolute ass, the real value would still be present for the people who'd felt it. Guts would mean that much to them. Casca would mean that much to them. Sticking with the series is not easy, nor is it without its hitches. There will be a shudder running through the foundations, it's unavoidable. But to distill the cast down to intangibles in the name of "ehh, tiny details are gone - that means it's no longer Guts or the story he's embroiled in" feels disingenuous. Guts isn't even in any fit state to speak right now but judgment has been passed anyhow. Give up if you gotta. As for me, gonna keep struggling and watching that team do the same.
Well that and I pretty sure anybody with an understanding of writing can tell that Guts being this low is set up for the new family he's created to pick him back up. As for Casca I'm half convinced she's going to bounce at the nearest opportunity and go hide with Luca and the da gurls again. But to be honest I thought it was really obvious why Fempto took Casca, because hes in the Moonlight child, and hes doing what hes always done and seeked out his parents like Skull Knight said. It also explains why he protected her during the fight in the field of swords. But he can only do this during the full moon and Zodd has been Fempto's escort ever since he first showed up. With Casca's abduction its Fempto going fuck this I'm done coming out here, extra weird because time flowed differently on Elf Island, Imma just take Casca back to Falcovia and be done with it, keep her here so I don't have to leave every single month.
I'd say you nailed it here with your analysis. The core story beats all seem to be there, it's just that the smaller stuff, the extra polish and those little bits which aren't relevant to the main plot and which will be expanded upon later (rip Serpico imo) are missing. But the core story is still there. It's like reading the Berserk you remember from hazy memories years ago, but not the actual thing in front of you.
re: the new berserk discussion - I had that same feeling playing infinite wealth. There are certain conversations and moments between characters that have been a long time coming, and infinite wealth avoids some, skips some, and ruins others for laughs. It's as if the team knows they don't have the chops to do justice to character moments that fans have been expecting for nearly 10 years now
I've literally never seen an episode of this podcast, I was just curious about new berserk. That intro was the most amazing intro to a podcast I've ever seen. Childhood. Ender.
Because of Versus Wolves, between September 8 2024 and today, September 19 2024, I read the first 41 volumes of Berserk for the first time. I am not ok. Thank you Versus Wolves.
I feel like there are too many assumptions they make about the plans for Casca in New Berserk. This is kind of what I feared in general when they said they were going to read it. I really dont think theres enough story material to make any grand judgments about what theyre doing with the characters or the story. Its a time of transition both production wise and story arc wise and I just dont think its the right time to be making these assumptions when the pay off is not there.
I agree. Unfortunately they're in a rock and a hard place. Letting the story cook seems like the right move, but people don't really have the patience since it's not Miura. I knew after the first new chapter people would immediately assume the worst. It's just too soon to judge. Also heavily disagree about Guts regressing. (writing wise)
I think theres a point of comparison you can make between Berserk and Wheel of Time. Wheel of Times author Robert Jordan passed away before he could publish the end of his series, and it was picked up by an author (hand picked by Jordans wife) who finished the series. The new authors first book is very clunky, there's a character (Mat) that the new author has gone on to say that he just didn't get in his first go. But in his next 2 where he finishes it out that clunk starts to go away and he gets into the flow of finishing this other authors series. Brandon Sanderson is not Robert Jordan, he is a significantly less talented writer. But after he was able to shake that clunk off he managed to deliver AN ending to the Wheel of Time that was ultimately satisfying. Those first few new Berserk chapters are very clunky. But I am willing to give the team a bit more time to shake that clunk off and deliver something meaningful for the ending of the greatest fantasy story ever told. Like John said it will never be THE ending of Berserk, like with Wheel of Time the story ended with it's author. This is AN ending of Berserk.
just need to show some love that this dropped the day I had a near 4 hour car journey I'd been stressing about for weeks. What a great way to spend it listening to you fine folks.
Woolie: "John, in order to de-escalate things for once, I recommend that you help out a charity. An orphanage or something."
John: "Woolie, I can't believe you're making me kill some child's parents"
Real Shintaro Kazama hours here.
@@blatantdeleter8280were you just thinking about yakuza in general or are you a Lore Dump fan?
@@somedudewatchintv5297 It was just a yakuza reference in general, but thanks for the new background UA-cam content suggestion :)
@@blatantdeleter8280 everything is hilarious from what I've seen. It's great whether or not you've seen the specific series they talk about.
Shame; John had a running bit during his streaming of F&H of bragging about how he'd never lost a fight to a child. Now it seems his winning streak has been broken.
You beat me to the punch. I too am ashamed of this new development!
Kathy wouldn't
Nah, that wasn't an official sanctioned fight, thus the streak remains intact. That child only lives by the grace of the FINAL GAMER! Had the child been brave enough to step in the ring, they would've been DESTROYED!
In competition, John is undefeated. I feel.
I saw this comment before starting the podcast and I assumed it was about the baby boss in Darkest Dungeon 2. I was NOT prepared for the start of the podcast.
Woolie: "John, this week I'd like to recommend you a banana. You can go out, buy a bunch, and if you eat one and decide you like it, you can finish the bunch throughout the wee-"
John: "SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT ME TO GIVE MYSELF BANANA POISONING? IS THAT IT WOOLIE? DO YOU SEE WHAT THIS MAN DOES?"
Woolie: "I didn't say you had to eat the bananas whole, peel and all!"
John: "YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE DOING WOOLIE YOU KNEW I WOULD EAT THOSE PEELS"
At this point I think Jhon is using the podcast to have an excuse to be a masochist and blame Woolie for it 💀
@@Wulk Don't kink shame him! 🤣
@@Wulk >Jhon
John: *repeatedly drops bowling ball on his own foot*
John: I can't believe Woolie made me do this
Woolie: ALL I TOLD YOU TO DO WAS TO GO BOWLING ONCE!!!
Ghost of christmas john: "No one told you to play F&H like a madman, Woolie! You did this to yourself!"
John of Christmas Present: "If I can't make a miracle comeback in Dokapon within 3 tries I have to play Shenmue 3 on hard".
Ghost of John Future, playing Shenmue 3 on hard: "I can't believe Woolie did this to me".
John strikes me as a man who likes adding a bit of danger to his chores.
It's not good enough that he has to put in a little bit of work to mow the lawn... He has to set up a minefield, too.
@@sloshed-rat"WOOLIE, YOU KNOW I LOVE JUGGLING BOWLING BALLS! I CAN'T HELP IT!"
"missing a fighting game tournament" being in the pantheon of greatness forever is honestly kinda fortuitous. "Is this better or worse than doing nothing" is a useful barometer to have on the list.
And then blaming it on your dyslexia
@@johnrivers3813 That Woolie gave him
Doing nothing implies he just forgot to leave the house and go to the tournament, this is way worse, he was 90% getting to the tournament with paid hotel and all, but due to his dyslexia ass he arrived the minute everything ended so it way worse than doing nothing, it's failing at the finish line.
@@key099able Still better than Omikron.
RIP Friendship Era
September 6th 2024 - September 6th 2024
John what the fuck is wrong with boxing???
@@Porterhaus94potential brain damage?
@@gameb9oy that's where the thrill comes from!!
@@gameb9oyI mean he recommended jujutsu kaisen
@@gameb9oyThat's why amateurs wear gear. You don't judt get your ass kicked...
I am loving the story of the jujutsu child who for some reason has been moulded to have the same mental processes as a baby crocodile. Just immediately chokes someone out fully on instinct just because she happens to be awake and someone grab-able is nearby.
"THe child is here because this is the only place with people she doesn't accidentally murder"
I'm crying at jujutsu child 😂😂😂 cuz now I'm just imagining him getting choked out by Itadori for no reason 😂
@@Cwestlovbro would actually die
john: recommends favorite combat sport
woolie: alright, bet
woolie: recommends favorite combat sport in reciprocal gesture
john: NOOOOO WHAT THE FUCK, WHAT THE FUCK NO AAAAA YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME, YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL THE FINAL GAMER NOOOO DUDE FUCK MAN, NO FUCK MAN DUDE FUCK NO WHY
he's a wonderful heel, I imagine he's very entertaining in the ring lol
Therapist: so is this "certain percentage of the audience" in the room with us right now?
John: yes, and they all agree that Woolie is trying to get me.
(the Therapist is Woolie)
Orderlies arrive and are accused of being Woolie's new judo friends
The karma from not suplexing that child payed off in that grievously wounded old man lending John his bike to get to the concert on time so he can prove to his wife he isn't a disappointment.
That sentence should not exist in reference to non-fictional events.
To be fair, it's JOHN we're talking about here.
As mentioned during the stripper incident, his life is a cosmic joke and God's still laughing.
What really makes John a villain is his insatiable need to twist anything that happens to make himself the punished underdog hero
He’d light his own house on fire so he could blame Woolie for introducing him to matches
You've really put it into words, it's not that his individual actions are villainous or even just more villainous than woolie's, I genuinely agree with John that woolie has done the majority of intentional escalation on this podcast, and yet despite all that when I'm rooting for John I still feel like I'm rooting for the bad guy.
@@Ellievsgod His Wrassling Heel energy is strong with John
As far as I'm concerned this whole podcast has just been two villains trying to out the other while downplaying their own culpability.
Woolie's recommendation this month is to go to a new gym take a beginner's boxing lesson; aka the sport where you get punched in the face! What, you think Jon is some martial arts guy who's moving this month and this recommendation is a great reason for him to find a new gym and make sparring friends at his new town HE'S MOVING TO?!
He's lex author trying to convince people superman is a danger to the world he's protecting
Friendly reminder that when John reccomended Brazilian Jiu Jitsu he literally told Woolie to "get tapped out" by a black belt.
John totally threw the first stone.
The girl from F&H finally got her revenge
That's right, boys, Mondo Cool!
John entered the Yakuza side quest dimension for a minute there in that gym.
*comical music begins. Zoom in on John's face*
(Hm? This child's technique is no joke.)
The fishing child causing an old man to fall off his bike and make Ichiban late to a concert is literally going to be in Like a Dragon 9. It has to be
Ending quest jingle kicks on "John shitted in a public park" complete
"I feel like I could draw a Behelit and a Buster Sword on a napkin, and you'd recommend it to me in two months' time"
-Woolie from the Lost Versus Wolves Episode
I feel that based on how John has spoken regarding Berserk and Muira's death that regardless of quality of Berserk after his death, he would always feel the way described in this podcast. This isn't a slight, I just get the impression that conciously or subconciously, no matter what happened, he was always going to feel this way.
I agree, I think when Miura passed, in John’s heart the story was done. I feel like most of his issues with where the story is going in new chapters is where Miura was going anyway
also, new berserk is bad and feels soulless.
@@mattb6616it feels like the boat
@@mattb6616that’s a stretch. What their doing with guts character rn is honestly some of the most naunce we’ve seen from him
@@danielcanavan-gosling5118 It makes sense as to why he would have Woolie stop at Miura's last chapter before going into it. whether planned or not it sets Woolie up with the same bias John has going into it. Had Woolie not been informed prior, I doubt he would be on that same page as John.
Woolie, there’s a very obvious reason for Griffith to kidnap Casca. It’s almost certainly to keep him from leaving Falconia on the one day a month that he’s a defenseless two year old child.
"Be calm, Final Gamer. You are not in danger, because you are not a threat to me." - Gabriel, probably
Every month, we grow increasingly closer to the “shot by a small caliber pistol” arc of Versus Wolves.
@misterdiesel3702 "today woolie... I recommend you duck!" *reaches for coat pocket*
They'll be fine. It's only 9mm.
I’m kinda surprised at how… Simplistic your look onto a couple of chapters of Berserk is.
To me, the whole thing is an analogy of real life for Koji Mori after the loss of his best friend.
He lost Kentaro, not just a friend but someone he also closely worked with, and so shared not just in friendship but in art, for decades. Someone he probably went through an unimaginable amount of things with.
Guts loses Casca.
Koji was definitely broken by Miura’s passing, and probably questioned the point of anything, including perfecting his art without Miura, just like Guts does questions what the point of all his training and struggle was if this is the result. I allow myself to assume because having lost my best friend myself, I know for a fact that you end up in a hell of a bad place where life itself feels completely pointless for a good while.
I thought it was a stunningly beautiful way to continue the story Miura created, by laying in subtext what Mori probably experienced too.
The way I see it evolve, at least I hope it goes that way, is that Guts goes back to his dream of just being the strongest. To accept that his passion for his sword and swordsmanship is what’s always driven him, and that ultimately this dream is what will help him get to Casca. Help him clear the situation with Griffith. Maybe that’s where Gut’s victory will be even. In the fact that he reached a point where he achieved his dream while Griffith never truly did, sacrificed all he had, and is now surrounded by unloving pawns who ultimately care little to none about him, while Guts is a simple human who can go up against a god while surrounded by friends and love.
I don’t see the save the princess thing at all, and I find it kinda sad to see that whole plot element being reduced to just that when to me there’s clearly more to it.
There’s a lot I could say but I’m not gonna write a whole book, no one will read anyway lol
Anyways, Miura isn’t here anymore. Berserk will never be the same. But to me Mori just proved that he understands and relates to Berserk on a level so deep he’s not afraid of injecting some of his very own being into it.
And that’s fucking beautiful in my opinion.
Some very important bits of Kathy lore that John neglected to mention:
-John left the final dungeon because he was informed the gap between first and second was too high, even with the final boss and bonuses. His only hope was to save towns. So logically, he decided to fight Kathy of his own volition instead.
-Kathy had barely any cash, her gear was comparable to everyone else's, and stealing a single town or stalling her for a couple of turns would've been negligible. John literally had nothing to gain from the fight and lost everything to Gabrielle's betrayal for a fight he didn't even have to do.
-Steve, despite John saying he didn't matter, was in second place for almost the entirety of the last two streams. He spent the penultimate chapter gathering towns after the last Global Assault and slowly went up the ranks, managing to beat both John and Gabrielle through good old hard work.
-Even if John beat the final boss and somehow acquired every bonus, Kathy would've still been in the lead by roughly 10 million gold. Her castles alone made up almost the entire gap between second and first place. It is physically impossible for John to beat Kathy no matter how many turns he goes back. The gap is literally insurmountable.
-Kathy, despite being the stuff of John's nightmares, won roughly the equivalent to what Minh earned in Woolie's Dokapon Kingdom campaign. Reggie also earned more than everyone except Kathy. Woolie would have lost to Gabrielle and Steve, but still earned more than John, needless to say.
So what you're saying is that John was dead last in 7th place? Makes sense.
Just a tiny correction; Steve came third in the end. But yeah, he was fighting for that second place with Gabrielle while John made a fool of himself trying to get the attention of his crush Kathy
Damn now we know we he calls himself the final gamer, because he places on the last place below everyone!
Lmao weren't you the person who recommended he leave hell to go save towns so he could attempt to make up some of the gap between him and kathy?
So what I'm getting is... we need to call in Reggie for this task.
The first half of this podcast could be titled “You’re never safe around an Irish child”
My theory is that moonlight child always goes to Casca so Griffith's reason for kidnapping her is keeping that part of him under control and my only way I'll accept the damsel making of her is if she takes her own agency back and breaks out of the cage herself
I will say I think John and Woolz are coping a bit over Berserk, while we don't know what Miura did or didn't share with his publisher/friend. I would expect that these early post Miura chapters already had drafts or notes about their contents.
I imagine we wont know what Miura shared until after the series is complete but I don't think is fair to say "It's not the same" when they have only written like 10 chapters
Yeah, the world is unraveling at the seams. Griffith just took Casca, the Kushans are planning their next move, their hasn’t been time for the character moments John wants, it’s been go go go because that’s probably what was meant to happen. I am highly skeptical that the writers just made up their own story for casca getting taken and guts being overcome with despair when it happened literally the chapter after Miuras last, I’m sure his staff and assistants knew what Miura was going to have happen immediately after
If John followed up the Childhood's End joke with a comment along the lines of "I showed that kid the Lights in the Sky are Stars", I woulda instantly joined the patreon, personal finances be damned
Could be the Arthur C Clarke option too
“Every child in the gym is an enemy.”
I think I saw Mouri mention once that while Miura laid the whole plot down for him, there are some details he doesn't remember clearly or didn't get much info on, and said that he was not going to elaborate on plot points he didn't have a solid grasp of or couldn't remember. To me, that set the tone of what to expect from New Berserk, that it was, deliberately, going to be something of a CliffNotes version of what might have been the ending. I think that lets me be a little easier on it than people who have been fans of the story for decades. In all honestly, I would be VERY curious about what an anime adaptation could expand on, being unburdened by the expectation of having to continue Miura's work directly and allowed to let some these plot points breathe more.
Thats under the assumption it would be under people like Araki and Hayashi of Attack on Titan who have a lot of creative freedom to alter or improve presentation rather than follow up what came before, or Bleach TYBW being a marriage of the original author's direct input for the anime and Taguchi and his staff's creative freedom bec many adaptations these days, even the creative and high quality ones like JJK, Frieren, and Dandadan, to name very few, will always stick firmly to the manga text
On my end, while I can understand the negative sentiments of the mere idea of a restricted Berserk continuation, Mouri is a very good author and has an actual connection to Miura we will never understand and Mouri knows how the fans also put Miura on a pedestal, which adds pressure on his end
Berserk's continuation is a constant conscious exercise of reverence and respect when applied rather than an attempt to downplay a friend performing a legacy work.
Not everyone can or is willing to commit to said exercise and we should understand but may it not be a means to harass Mouri or the fandom. Because we need this continuation to happen within natural terms.
For anyone wondering how Woolie “ruined” the charity stream, when John called Woolie on stream he let Woolie know that because of some chat shenanigans Woolie could force John to restart the game that he was playing.
Because John was so concerned that Woolie might force him to restart, John made a grievous error and lost his run. John then yelled about it being Woolie’s fault for a couple of minutes.
Did Woolie use that ability to end John’s run? No. Did Woolie act in any way to make John think he would use the ability? No. Why does John call this Woolie ruining the stream? No idea.
Why does the heel hate the face. Cause it's wrestling, and we have our rolls to play.
*And then LittleV with the steel chair!!!*
i think its one of those things called "humorous joke" but maybe im wrong, not an expert
It sounds like them having a bit because the whole idea behind the podcast is "best friends who are also bitter rivals"
@@parkourboio1062oh yeah, this whole podcast is like wrestling essentially
59:31 Don’t worry John, we remember the details of how you lost your passport:
You left Heck in an attempt to get more money to reach first place and stated the following.
"I'm gonna beat Kathy, I'm gonna take all her money, and then I'm gonna kill the final boss. This is the Final Gamer's Plan, and it's going to work." -John, 6:46 pm GMT, August 14th, 2024
Then Kathy used a sleep spell on you, and then proceeded to one shot you with a strike. Afterwards Chat began repeatedly posting the following quote:
"I'm gonna beat Kathy, I'm gonna take all her money, and then I'm gonna kill the final boss. This is the Final Gamer's Plan, and it's going to work." -John, 6:46 pm GMT, August 14th, 2024
Happy to help 😊
I’m sure John has been very happy that his fans are keeping him humble. I’m sure no sarcasm has escaped his mouth while Kathy stole his crown as the Final Gamer
personally, im hoping that casca and guts have parallel arcs of regaining their agency and resolve through this new lowest point in their lives, and will meet each other as equals again
I'm like 99% sure that what happened between Guts, Griffith and Casca would go pretty much the same way, even if Miura was the one to write it. I know Woolie directly addresses it, but I'm sure the reaction from the John, Woolie and the fans would not be close to what it was.
Yea, nothing about the recent volume felt offscript to how this story has previously played out. Griffith has been a constant looming threat throughout the story, iirc in like 1-2 volumes before Gedfring at one point asks him if pursuing Griffith is even worth it and Guts quietly ponders it before the events of the recent volume. It just seemed that Griffith got tired of being ignored and decided to do something so Guts would acknowledge him again. That doesn't seem out of character for any of the cast that Miura thought up.
This podcast must be what people who like Death Note feel while watching Death Note. Shoutout to Woolie for outsourcing, punching his friend in the face, truly a master of strategy.
See I would be more open to John's insistence that he's the unjustly maligned underdog in this podcast, but I sent him a chatter message in his stream earlier today before this was up and asked him when the episode was coming out, and he got really quiet and somber and really convincingly gaslit everyone into thinking that the podcast was cancelled because it was affecting his friendship with Woolie, and it almost made me shit myself before he went "haha just joking, it's coming out today! gotcha!"
This man cannot resist being a villain and that's why I'll die before I see him as the hero
John makes me think of an Infernal Exalted from the TTRPG "Exalted" who is actually a good guy but has to appease his dark patrons by being as deceitful, dramatic, and extra as Bond villains. Just while, y'know, doing normal things.
I’ve been enjoying the new berserk a lot because it feels to me like an allegory for what the team have been going through, the same way that Miura would put so much of himself into Berserk.
It’s been misery after misery of seeing the long and hard road to getting Casca back and feeling okay again.
And just like Miura’s passing it is ripped away from us just like Casca is ripped away from Guts, in a manner completely out of our control that gives us nothing but sadness and despair.
And everything about new berserk feels like that to me, Guts’ sword is heavier after losing Casca because the Pen the artist team uses to draw is heavier without Miura.
It has its problems but it’s struck a deep melancholic chord with me everytime a new chapter has dropped and I’m very much looking forward to where they go.
Very well said, mate. It's an angle I hadn't considered, and there's something to it.
Yeah this is basically my feelings on it as well. I can understand the skepticism that they have about Casca being kidnapped, but I also feel as though this is a move that Griffith would make. I feel like they just need to give them more time to flesh the story out more before they fully judge it. Yes, it's been 3 years, but in actuality, we've only gotten 10 chapters of a new author desperately trying to continue a 366 chapter story written by his late friend
For me the motivation for Griffith kidnapping Casca was fairly obvious at the end of 364 and the new chapters - whenever Griffith turns into the moonlight child, the child seeks its mother. However he gets there (world tree, most likely, though it's been a minute so I may be misremembering), he gets there. Whenever Griffith is in this state, he's vulnerable, and not exactly in control of his actions. My assumption is once Griffith figured this out, he was going to kidnap Casca and keep her in Falconia, so that he doesn't transport back to Guts and the party. Whether or not he knew that they'd be in Elfheim I forget. I don't necessarily dislike the idea that she's (again) a bird in a cage, I just wish we got more detail on beyond a 20-ish page chapter
Otherwise I do agree - for me the actual plot motivations are making sense, but there really is that sense of character depth missing, especially with Guts and Casca. It's one of those things where I really do think an adequate anime adaptation of the work would do wonders, because it would maybe allow for *a* scene where the two talk (maybe with Casca behind a door and Guts on the other side), where the reminisce or discuss what happens, and there's a TON you can explore there
20-ish pages is the maximum amount of pages allowed on Young Animal.
7:30 The big concern I'd have about the 7 year old girl, is that if she isn't humbled soon she'll do this to other kids. If she's effective enough to make an adult see stars, she could really do some damage to a fellow 7 year old.
Alternatively, if she pulls that on a kid with a similar aggro who retaliates with some serious violence :(
John snorting the air in an attempt to justify his three tries genuinely took me out.
I'm not going to lie, the discussion at the end felt like two people who never actually read Beserk
Or at least never actually understood Casca's journey
"Why is Casca (an incredibly intelligent woman) playing along with Griffith's game after being captured"
She clearly dislikes the situation but knows she has no choice but to bide her time
"Why did they have that bit about her preffering the armour but then she's back in a dress?"
That's literally the point, it shows that Griffith's desire for Casca is not and has never been in line with who she is and that she can never be forced to fit in to the 'perfect world' that he created
"Why did Griffith even take Casca? Is it just to create a reason for Guts to go after him?"
SHE'S LITERALLY HIS MOTHER, THROUGH THE FETUS BABY THING AND THE EGG CAUSING HIS REBIRTH
ITS A MAJOR PART OF HER STORY AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOONLIGHT CHILD IS THE INNOCENT PART OF HER CHILD THAT WAS CORRUPTED BY GRIFFITH BOTH DURING AND AFTER THE ECLIPSE
It's genuinely disappointing that these guys seem to be so blinded by nostalgia that they can't see deeper than the surface for the post-miura content
It's no different to anybody who reads the original Beserk and comes away with "it's just an edgy dude with a big sword"
I think you're being a bit too harsh with their stance at new Berserk. Take into account they just read all of this barely a couple hours before recording. It's a lot to process, not just narratively, but emotionally.
That said, while I do think Griffith's reason to kidnap Casca (while there are valid theories) is still largely unclear, Casca's current position (IMO) is not one of servitude. She's been shown as that in the outside, very clearly brainwshed; but we're shown a lot of pure struggle within. the real Casca is still there, fighting to get out. The development she had is not only not gone, but it's (again, IMO) set up to take center stage as she'll need it to escape on her own. Maybe she'll encounter Luca and she can lend a hand, idk.
My point is, Mori and Gaga are marvelous storytellers, and while they're still learning to write these characters, I can see them 'getting there'
@GlitchToph yeah but they also read the entire story (well technically just Woolie) within the last few months
So John is going to use time powers in one last attempt to beat Kathy? He's not just a villain now... he's a JoJo villain.
The best description I have for Woolie and John's relationship is "Playing tag with knives"
For Berserk, to me it wasn't a surprise that Caska was kidnapped, because it follows the trajectory established by Miura in showing Griffith through the lense of the hero of a fantasy story. So he didn't kidnapped the princess, he rescued her.
2. I don't thing that the biggest reason for Guts being broken is Caska, I think it's because he was betrayed by the only thing he could ever rely on, his sword. It failed him in the most crucial moment. Sure he lost Caska because of it, but it's because of it...
3. Maybe I need to go reread the chapter with Caska in Falconia, but it seemed to me like she was under a spell or something there.
I also think that without her founding a party inside Falconia any attack will fail. Like with the attack on the pervert old guy fort in the Kushian war, she will be the one to make Falconia fall.
Lastly I know John said he gave it a fair shot and I believe he felt that way, but to me it seems like he expected to be let down and if those exact chapter were written by Miura, he would have gave him the benefit of the doubt that it would have been well executed.
Also good job to the kid who choked John
You know it's going to be a good video when it starts off with John almost getting choked out by a child.
"Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer." is an all time banger of a line that will allow me to overlook a lot of more superfluous lines.
I appreciate that for how silly and chaotic this show can be and how much John likes to play a heel for fun that he and Woolie can use this for some actually pretty raw and meaningful stuff. Berserk means a lot to many people and John wears that so much on his sleeve which is lovely to see and it's nice they could take this dive together even if it didn't go where John wanted.
So hey Berserk spoilers I guess just in case anyone is in Woolie's old spoiler arc.
So, I don't think we were ever going to see what was going to happen between Guts and Casca so soon. Griffith appeared, that was going to delay their healing in some way. What we have now may not be exactly where it was supposed to go, but it was immediately after Miura's final chapter so it couldn't have been totally blind. I think leaning into Guts and the way he feels about his sword, the safety, the certainty, and taking that away from him when it fails to stop Griffith was, as with everything else about the continuation, the best they could do in the circumstance. Not knowing where it was really going, doing this to "pull the bow back" in Woolie's words makes sense. Casca's loss is the primary impetus for Guts breaking, but it was the failure of his sword to cut Griffith that sends him spiraling. He swings, and the world does not explode. That point of nuance of Guts spiraling because of his own belief faltering, not just because Casca was taken is I think a hopeful sign that we won't end up with Casca just being a damsel in distress. His faith in his sword is a big part of who Guts is that's kept him going in this messed up world. If they're going in a direction where he overcomes his emotional need for it, and grows a little past his emotional clumsiness in other ways, I think that's a good choice.
I have an idea where the trajectory might be going. Guts being in the custody of the Kushan, how they want to resist Griffith, there are some things to read into. But it's just so early anything could easily be wrong.
From a french perspective, hearing Woolie describe pétanque with Disco Elysium and JoJo like it's the hypest shit over and over is really funny.
I notice that John didn't mention that he had Gamer Mode activated when he lost to Kathy and that she handed Gamer Mode its first loss.
I believe when that happens you stop the cycle of reincarnation permanently, you lose your Gamer powers and can't use Gamer Mode ever again.
@@fantomflasch2289 You can. You just have to reach a new level of enlightenment first. That's what'll happen to him when he joins the boys for Dokapon Season 3😂
Casca has always been a damsel in distress. Even when she wore armor and a sword, she was always getting her clothes ripped off and Guts needed to save her. The only fight she actually wins is a comedy fight against an cartoonish idiot villain.
Always is like….once. Then the eclipse happens.
@morningbell3690 isn't that literally all she does besides the period fainting?
With all these recommendations related to fighting and fighting styles, I think Woolie and Eyepatch are just training each other to be the ultimate rival until the final episode of vs. Wolves is a Yakuza battle at the top of a skyscraper.
"Even if you force back what was lost, It still won't be as it was."
I think we gotta give New Berserk some time man, I agree with everything said but I can see a path where things still end up satisfying. I would like to see Casca & Griffith have a verbal boss battle now for instance.
Edit: Woolie I promise you will love JJK S2, S1 will probably go over just okay.
I came to this video as a casual fan of both creators to hear their thoughts on Berserk's continuation as i know for John it's his absolute favorite thing ever and since this was the most insightful and down to the point discussion about it I've heard so far in online spaces I wanted to shout my own thoughts about it into the UA-cam comment section void.
I can feel John's pain when he talks about not wanting to start reading the new chapters, the possibility of being dissapointed and your ''favourite thing'' not being as good or the characters as alive as he put it anymore and as Berserk has been my ''#1 favourite thing ever'' for so many years as well, i can feel the heartbreak and i felt the same to a degree, but my view on it is a bit different and I'd like to put it out there if anyone happens to read this.
For a long time after Miura died, every time i even thought about Berserk (despite re-reading it at the time) i was overflowing with this feeling of despair, just not being able to accept that Miura was gone and there would be no more of his genius or Berserk. But overtime, as with all things, time turns those feelings into acceptance and when the new chapters started coming out, instead of drawing these hard lines in my mind that ''Berserk died with Miura'' or ''I'm glad i get to see Berserk end'' i sort of separated Berserk as a whole into 3 ''things''.
One being Miura's Berserk, the second being the Gaga & Mori continuation which could just not be good or even passable, and the 3rd, the hopeful scenario, ''Berserk continues and it feels similar as with Miura, created with love and care for their friend''.
When i thought about it this way i really couldn't be disappointed no matter what eventually would happen with it, i would still have what i originally fell in love with or i would see the faithful continuation created with love of Miura by his dear friends. In time i went from curious to cautiously optimistic to surprisingly hopeful about the 3rd option. And on the date of writing this, aside from the abysmal release schedule (Gaga members have multiple times mentioned on twitter that chapters have been done and have been sent to publishing ages ago but they're just not being released) I'm very excited to keep reading Berserks continuation and I whole heartedly believe it's going to get even better.
After the 10 or so chapters, reading them when they released my thoughts on it are that the team is improving at a steady, but surprisingly fast pace. The initial first chapter was rough, the art wasn't really up to Miura's (impossible) quality or even an emulation of it, the paneling and art clarity of scenes wasn't great, characters weren't really allowed to be themselves and the plot moved at lightning speed. To be fair to them, while Miura unfortunately or fortunately left the story at a thematically perfect spot to (to put it very morbidly) die on, following up that chapter and trying to emulate his way of creating manga is impossible which is why i personally give the first few chapters some leeway. Like John said, Miura was a MASTER of drawing the eye with his paneling and creating even the most complex art pieces that were incredibly clear to look at and understand but i feel like the team at Gaga is steadily getting there with their art getting better by the chapter with more and more talking, characters behaving like themselves and the art finding its footing.
Now, it's impossible to say where the story itself is going so its also impossible to really completely judge it like Woolie said. To me it feels exactly like when i was reading the boat arc and waiting for the chapters to drop and it feeling like forever with nothing really happening but when you re-read it or read it when it was complete, it felt well paced and exciting, or if i we're to compare it to something older that Miura talked about in one of his interviews, about how the Eclipse was received extremely poorly when it was originally released. Readers at the time really weren't happy how all their favorite characters were just massacred and killed off at the time (Even if the black swordsman arc existing beforehand would give you a good clue) and if i had to bet, it would have felt fairly similar to this.
It's really hard or even impossible to judge plot points being set sometimes when they're happening and even if i agree how Casca's kidnapping feels like an incredibly cheap way to move story pieces forward, I don't believe it was an amateur mistake from Mori or Gaga and i think it was always the plan for Miura (even though if he did it, it would have probably been executed with more finesse and grace). I think everything happened very fast in the new chapters, which i feel like was their ORIGINAL goal in the announcement of the continuation, to only give us ''What Mori remembers'' and not speculating or adding what he doesn't.
As for the Casca chapter in Falconia, I thought it to be very clear that she was under a spell or at the least, not in her right mind. She wakes up to the reality of the situation and lashes out at the end of the chapter as Casca would in that situation and is immediately put back into the spell and to sleep. I don't believe they character assassinated her by making her 'accept her situation' of being a damsel in distress and i have a feeling we're going to be getting chapters focusing only on Casca and her escape or activities in Falconia.
I do also want to extend the possibility of your personal opinion of the chapters changing (for better or for worse) if you re-read the whole of Berserk up until the latest chapter as i feel there might be a small (even if fairly justified) rose glasses situation where not having read the original in so long and then jumping straight into the new chapters will give you whiplash and be a really hard transition line.
This brings me to my next point which is about Mori and the way he is adapting his friends story.
Ever since the announcement that Berserk will be continuing under Mori and Gaga, there's been a few ideas about how the continuation is handled.
A lot of times when people talk about Mori's recollection of Berserk's end they refer to the interview in which he talks about how Miura invited him over to help him flesh out the overarching story some 30-ish years ago. I think people interpret this as Mori trying to recall Berserks story from that 30 year old conversation about its story and like John mentions, Berserk most likely if not even certainly has changed and the story that was thought up back then would be different from the one Miura was writing before his death. I feel like that is not the case and the reason for my interpretation is because Mori has been mentioned in countless interviews by Miura going back multiple years such as talking about their relationship being the basis for Griffith and Guts and so on but what i find to be the most interesting are the interviews where he mentions going to Mori for help on the story of Berserk and to talk about each others manga in general, and if Mori is to be believed from his short manga about Miura, this was very frequent and very recent. According to Mori, they would talk to each other almost every week. This leads me to interpret this so that Mori is aware of how Berserk continues and eventually ends with very recent information and ideas and it is the execution that the team is lacking to realize this insurmountable task of finishing Berserk. I've always read Miura's interviews along the years but going back to read most of them after Miura's passing and Mori's current ones really opens your eyes to how good friends these two were and how often they influenced each other in their work. As most people probably agree, Berserk is in the best of hands it could ever be, and if you go re-read some interviews you might come to the same interpretation as i have that Mori's recollections are far more recent that most people believe.
Most of this is just my personal interpretations about things and i could be very wrong in 10 chapters time but unlike what was originally announced about the ''footnotes'' version of Berserk of only Mori's memories, i think the team realized after a few chapters that they couldn't really do that and are using Mori's understanding of the story, and then using their own artistic abilities to add on top to create the on going story. In the short few chapters we've gotten I think the team has already started to stretch their legs at what they're comfortable in adding themselves and are gradually improving at it.
It is my hope (maybe foolishly so) that Mori and the team at Gaga realize fully that instead of doing the story beats of Berserk without delving into the details, the way for their continuation to shine is to really insert themselves into the work, allowing the characters to exist, writing what they feel the scenes need and creating ''their'' Berserk continuation while following the original as close as they can. It already is not the same, it will never be the same as with Miura, but the best i feel they can do as artists and mangakas is to put their all into it and not just lifelessly try to emulate Miura and finish it.
If you feel like Berserk ended with Miura's death, then it did. It did for me as well. If i somehow could get one wish from a genie from a bottle 10/10 times i would wish for Miura back, that's how much i respected him and his work and how much i wish he wasn't gone.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind with this long ass comment, it was just posted to just write my feelings about the series continuation and sort of a soft response to the podcast as well. At the very least if you read this and you were on the fence of continuing Berserk or if you were already following it but weren't really feeling it like John isn't, i hope i at least gave you a new perspective to view it from.
Tldr
To me it's to early to judge the new berserk. The team only started and was left in a very difficult moment in the story. Every new chapter is only getting better and I hope the charracter writing will improve with time.
Also there is no way that the current story direction when it comes to Casca and Guts were caused by the new writer to put characters where he needs them.
It happened right after Miura's last chapter and the team had to know what he wanted to write in the next couple chapters.
Miura would definitely write it better, but let's not make the new writer a sacrificial goat for the inclusion of story elements we don't like.
Yeah. I agree. I think the art is rough immediately after Miura's last chapter, but it's steadily getting better and not much has happened to really gauge how well they're going to handle the story
@@TheLeftistOwl Hell I think a big part of why the art was so unclear is because it was trying to show an active transformation. The troll cave was better but when it started falling apart with Guts and Skull Knight inside it also lost some of its visual clarity.
Big agree i understood their points but I think it’s unrealistic to think the next few chapters post death weren’t written out by miura, obviously dialog and paneling aren’t exactly what he would have done to a T but I think even if he hadn’t died these next chapters would have played out near identically to how the hsve plot wise
Definitely agree. I think they kind of did this a disservice by both of them reading the new volume literal hours before recording, and I also don't really think there is enough new material to give a good impression of the quality of the story going forward. John's criticisms are a bit unfair imo when you consider the new writer is here to end berserk not continue it. Miura wrote an amazing journey with amazing characters, but to be honest even long before his final chapter I felt it was very easy to see that he wanted to continue writing berserk but no longer knew how he wanted to end the series. A part of me is skeptical that he ever actually would've finished berserk, and it's possible towards his passing he never really intended to.
What do they expect Casca to do? She still has no means to defend herself and knows Griffith is somehow her child. Weird thing to harp on when they are following a vague outline its not flat fanfic.
Hey Jon this is like going in to the first act of a sequel and leaving the theater 20 mins in. While i understand your trepidations the nee berserk is still very very much in setup phase, so many questions left to answer, i say let it go for a few years then if you want and comeback when they claim its all finished thats gonna be your best case scenario for coming back to this work
On the topic of new Berserk, i think what needs to be addressed, and what always needed to be addressed, is that Guts rage cannot co-exist with Casca.
I think Skull Knight symbolises this perfectly, he is never angry. Hes always focused, to the point, never emotional, and he KICKS. ASS.
And i think with the back story you get of him, the intention is "I could not let go of my rage in time". Thats why he calls him the Struggler, he KNOWS. He knows "This is bad, you need to grow".
And i think Griffith also knows this.
So the constantly pulling Casca away, while it hurts.. its true. Its not right. Thats not what they need. Its all well and good pulling Casca back in, but not when Guts is the same. Guts cannot just see Griffith and "do his Guts thing". He needs to change, he needs to let go.
I think thats what Miura was building to, and its why things keep going wrong for Guts. I would be completely unsurprised if by the end, Guts has all by abandoned his rage, the Berserker armour gone, potentially the Dragonslayer gone as well, for just a regular sized Greatsword, or even a different weapon altogether like Skull Knights Sword and Shield, to "protect the ones dear to him" both literally and metaphorically.
What Berserk ultimately is, is a journey of dealing with trauma, and it needs to end with weight off his shoulders. I think the new Berserk team, while very early, are cooking as hot as possible with the impossible job they have.
Edit: I also realise that Casca putting on the dress, and just kind seeming out of it and crying, is because shes trying to get BACK to the moment she was happiest, which was her and Guts, dancing in the ballroom. Thats her happiest moment, thats what she desires the most, but she realises she cant have it, when Guts isnt also there and with so much pain yet unhealed.
As much as Berserk has been a journey about "fixing Casca", its as much a journey of fixing Guts, and he is currently more broken than hes ever been.
The fishing kid after 20 minutes of fishing: „I need to get going or else I’m going to be late for the concert!“
That first situation with the child is exactly why every Judo dojo I've known of in the UK does not teach strangles or joint locks to juniors.
I really hope John found an instructor and pointed out the kid to get extra training or removed. That's just not something you do to a random person.
Same thing in italy!
Doesn’t matter what video I’m watching or how long my watch later playlist is, Versus Wolves is always an instant click. Howdy y’all!!
Unfortunately this chaos is impossible to contain
Incredibly surprised to see you here. But then, I suppose the living chaos goblin know as John would need to have a Foundation eye kept on him.
I think if you guys are concerned about how long the ranking segments will take in the future it may be a good idea to divide into tiers and then work from there. It’ll probably greatly cut out the bulk of saying “Is it better than the 3 worst things in the universe.” This podcast is definitely one of my favorite things I’ve experienced this year. Absolutely in love with it.
We’re in the Friendship era folks let’s see how long this lasts
Best friends, super
One episode lol😂
@@arshiyakhebredast9895like... 45 minutes
1:11:50 I can see the despair in John’s eyes, he’s fully aware of the sheer depth and ludicrousness of his hubris but even he questions if he has committed too hard to the bit this time.
Low key think the Berserk intermission lounge should go public, the Black Swordsman, Lost Children, Conviction, Millennium Falcon arcs, and most of Fantasia all got sandbagged in discussion imo.
Time for John to reach Heaven through violence
How Poetic is it that Kouji Mori's pen must feel as heavy to him in his insurmountable ordeal of continuing Berserk as the Dragon Slayer must feel to Guts...
Fitting... isn't it?
40:27 "I can't help but feel that looking at my watch every 2 minutes and being like 'i sure hope that ambulance gets here soon' maybe detracted from some of the-"
Shut the f*ck up John. You could've just left that man there alone and gone back to your house at any moment. Actually remaining there, even if reticently, until there was any actual help coming and someone to stay beside him in your place is a genuine morally good deed, arguably even more so under the circumstances you were in.
Johns' Dokapon journey is a modern-day Greek tragedy
They've got serious rose colored glasses for old Berserk. John attributes something that happened under Miura to the new crew.
Yeah
I bet that later we are gonna learn that this was Miura notes on where the story takes route because I can totally see him doing this
I can’t wait for john to find out that all the rolls in dokopon are predetermined at the start of every game. Meaning that going back to his old save won’t actually help because he literally can’t get better rolls.
John is a living embodiment of the bike/stick meme
Rivals to long-lost brothers was not the plot twist I was expecting for this episode, but would fit comfortably in the script of RRR2.
New Berk has been wild to catch up on, so I’m hype to see how Vegeta and Piccolo are feeling about it. Love y’all ✊❤
My problem with their discussion about the post-Miura Berserk is they have no idea what was and wasn't planned to happen by Miura himself, and I feel if these were Miura chapters some of these complaints would either be lessened or just non-existent.
kinda crazy woolie brought up the REAL black swordsman during the berserk discussion
I can't believe Woolie made John choose to strap C4 to his crotch, choose to grab the detonator, and choose to pull the trigger.
Listen John, I know you have your shared history with Woolie and are now his honorary brother and all, but if he tries to sell you some sort of pass, do not trust him. His intentions are not pure.
No, he should take the pass. It's genuine and usable everywhere.
They can recommend eachother *any experience* right?
I'm not fully caught up on New Berserk, but I wilk say that having Casca whisked away immediately following the death of Miura did produce a cosmicly appropriate sense of hopelessness and loss.
With these revelations, we need them both to wear contrasting colors whenever their on screen together, and see if we can't arrange a dramatic throw-down in the middle of a thunderstorm
I think the thing about lines like "lethality writ large" is that they're meant to reflect the current emotional state of the fight, with the one John mentioned in particular being to hype you up about something cool that you did. It's the same thing as Killer Instinct going "INSAAAANE COMBO"
Having a fight swing from lines like "dazed, reeling, about to break", to "brought low, and driven into the mud!" is part of what makes DD's fights so visceral and fun.
edit- I will say though, I think Darkest Dungeon 1 had much more memorable narrator lines. "The match is struck, a blazing star is born" is permanently etched in my brain.
"There is no oxygen in the atmosphere of the Final Gamer. It's all Colpium."
-SuperEyePachtWolf
Maybe I'm seeing things, but I'm loving John's eyeliner.
Edit: Oh it's from the Garfield display, cool.
I want to believe that Caska is back. Maybe damaged and struggling but still that strong person who held the band of the falcon together for that year and would step up to fight anyone. So I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, but that's not the kind of character to sit passively in a tower and I want to see how she confronts her situation.
And Guts and co still have a lot of growing to do.
LOL at Woolie saying to John "Jab, Hook, Uppercut, Feel my blow when it impacts up your gut"
Hearing john explain his dokapon game while watching his face in the gameplay was so funny
There's an extra aspect to the hero progression they didnt touch on I love. The heros arent just remembering their past, theyre forgiving themselves for the failures and refocusing on their skills. The Man at Arms personifies this because he starts as a tank who wants to sacrifice himself for the party because he doesn't trust himself to give orders. When his confession finishes, he realizes he has the skill the lead, he just made one small mistake that had unforeseeable consequences.
To be fair, Miura is the one that ended with the Casca getting captured cliff hanger. This was set up before he died. So its not like the team led it to this direction. Theyre just working from what was setup beforehand.
The thing is, these story beats are exactly the story beats Miura told to the new writer
2 years from now "Yeah I didn't expect Woolie to just kill John in the ring like that."
On the Berserk section, I'm 90% with John that the in-the-moment experience of Berserk definitely feels off and regardless of what the rest of my comment says, it's not likely going to fix that phantom pain. But my brain is a little more like Woolie's, in that I do see a pretty worthwhile long game with Casca being captured. Possibly.
My biggest issue with the manga, even before Mori took the reins, is Casca having no agency for so much of the story even down to her own recovery. Sure, it has been a series-long journey with Guts, Farnese, and Shierke that got us to the "Do you still remember Guts" scene. But Casca was a potato, she didn't confront her traumas or fight inner demons, magic just "healed" her condition. If anything, I think Casca having a mental block from seeing Guts again as well as being taken away from her support network finally gives her another chance to approach her trauma on her own terms.
While I was briefly bummed out that we were robbed of Casca getting hot potato'd from one man's desire to another man's desire again, I see a lot of potential in the premise. Casca is trapped with the Band of the Hawk again, but this time she isn't just deluded into seeing Griffith as a god, he IS one now. Casca is being incarcerated in the worst abusive, ex-boyfriend locked room scenario (with happens to not only encompass a massive kingdom, it's the whole world) with no armor, weapons, magic, or friends left to help her. Worse, she can't even look Griffith in the eye without shutting down again! Rather than lament over "not this shit again" I'm more asking, "how the hell is she going to get out of this?"
If Mori's team chooses to just make her imprisonment just a couple of panels where Casca is helpless until Gut's team arrives, then... shit that will suck. But this might be an opportunity for Casca to start over her healing process on her own terms. Imagine a Casca covertly gathering allies while under Griffith's nose. Slowly piecing that the hero that she once considered her everything has been a control freak all along and is doing the same with the entire planet. Then finally, when she can meet Guts again she'll have conquered her trauma for good. If the cards are played right, I think there's a fantastic story to tell here.
Sephiroth: "Five turns 'til the end. I wonder what you'll do?"
I'm blown away that the character that was literally a damsel in distress for 20 years is only now being recognized as that by you guys.
Kathy's raw hater energy fueled that child. John thought he was safe; he is never safe.
EDIT: What the holy hell was that Berserk segment? Casca gave up? Guts regressing? What's Griffith's motivation for having Casca? Guys, if you've read the series how do you not grasp this: Griffith has *always* had a fixation on the old Band. Even Rickert got away with pimp slapping him, and his incarnations as the moonlight child have always, every single time, been drawn to/fixated on Guts and Casca. He 'lost' Guts, and then saw him 'take' Casca away after the rescue. It's been mentioned since way back in the Golden Age how Griffith is, in his way, like a child. He wants what he wants and that's the end of it. Guts and Casca survived the eclipse and he clearly, on some level, still wants them. If he wanted them dead, he'd have murdered Casca the instant Alfheim was infiltrated and likely Guts as well. Zodd was right there, Guts was on his knees - no better chance to do away with both of them, if Griffith wanted to.
Casca's odd fugue state whilst she was dressed isn't that odd considering there's a moment - kind of ignored here - where she seems to snap out of it and starts raging; guards rush in and surround her and she brains one of them with a vase, immediately HK's another in the gut and disarms him. After which she sprints away, dress torn, freaking out in her thought bubble that "Go back! I have to get back! If I don't make it back - then Guts -!" and thereupon passes out. Irvine reports to Griffith a page later about how "the bird slumbers in her cage; her flight over.", directly suggesting that she didn't just decide to sit down and turn off the Rage mode. Something suppressed her and forced her into that docile state.
Casca is not "the princess to be rescued". She's more back than she has been since the Eclipse, and it's readily apparent that something is trying to bury the part of her that is clearly bent on resisting. I was bracing to cover Guts as well - such as how his sword didn't get "stopped by Griffith's hair", wtf, it cut a strand off. Griffith, the guy who force-repelled that blade wholesale during the Black Swordsman arc, now can be touched on some level by it - but Woolie just hit the point of trying to draw a parallel between Berserk and fucking *SAO* and that's the red line. If you two don't like the new thing, fair play, but there's a whole hell of a lot of dodgy spite here that paints the two of you as tourists, not fans. "Not my cast/not my art" etc; someone who really loves the lessons, the humanity bleeding from Berserk's pages would still follow this tale to whatever end. Look at ONE - even if art quality is garbo, the heart and soul of a story can still resonate with people. Berserk is more than strong enough that even if it looked like absolute ass, the real value would still be present for the people who'd felt it. Guts would mean that much to them. Casca would mean that much to them.
Sticking with the series is not easy, nor is it without its hitches. There will be a shudder running through the foundations, it's unavoidable. But to distill the cast down to intangibles in the name of "ehh, tiny details are gone - that means it's no longer Guts or the story he's embroiled in" feels disingenuous. Guts isn't even in any fit state to speak right now but judgment has been passed anyhow. Give up if you gotta. As for me, gonna keep struggling and watching that team do the same.
Lmao I ain't reading that nerd
I read that, nerd. And agree.
@@n-aeraWeak. And a fake nerd.
Well that and I pretty sure anybody with an understanding of writing can tell that Guts being this low is set up for the new family he's created to pick him back up. As for Casca I'm half convinced she's going to bounce at the nearest opportunity and go hide with Luca and the da gurls again. But to be honest I thought it was really obvious why Fempto took Casca, because hes in the Moonlight child, and hes doing what hes always done and seeked out his parents like Skull Knight said. It also explains why he protected her during the fight in the field of swords. But he can only do this during the full moon and Zodd has been Fempto's escort ever since he first showed up. With Casca's abduction its Fempto going fuck this I'm done coming out here, extra weird because time flowed differently on Elf Island, Imma just take Casca back to Falcovia and be done with it, keep her here so I don't have to leave every single month.
I'd say you nailed it here with your analysis. The core story beats all seem to be there, it's just that the smaller stuff, the extra polish and those little bits which aren't relevant to the main plot and which will be expanded upon later (rip Serpico imo) are missing. But the core story is still there. It's like reading the Berserk you remember from hazy memories years ago, but not the actual thing in front of you.
re: the new berserk discussion - I had that same feeling playing infinite wealth. There are certain conversations and moments between characters that have been a long time coming, and infinite wealth avoids some, skips some, and ruins others for laughs. It's as if the team knows they don't have the chops to do justice to character moments that fans have been expecting for nearly 10 years now
i can't BELIEVE woolie wants john to surgically transform into a cardboard box. this is why he's the villain
John: fires 3 shots into his sanity.
John: "Why would Woolie do this?"
Woolie is entering the old retired sportsy white guy arc
Real good of woolie making sure his friend gets out there and gets some exercise. What a pal.
I've literally never seen an episode of this podcast, I was just curious about new berserk. That intro was the most amazing intro to a podcast I've ever seen. Childhood. Ender.
Welcome. The whole podcast is a wild ride. I reccommend the strip club story in episode 2 at minimum
Because of Versus Wolves, between September 8 2024 and today, September 19 2024, I read the first 41 volumes of Berserk for the first time. I am not ok. Thank you Versus Wolves.
I feel like there are too many assumptions they make about the plans for Casca in New Berserk. This is kind of what I feared in general when they said they were going to read it. I really dont think theres enough story material to make any grand judgments about what theyre doing with the characters or the story. Its a time of transition both production wise and story arc wise and I just dont think its the right time to be making these assumptions when the pay off is not there.
I agree. Unfortunately they're in a rock and a hard place. Letting the story cook seems like the right move, but people don't really have the patience since it's not Miura. I knew after the first new chapter people would immediately assume the worst. It's just too soon to judge.
Also heavily disagree about Guts regressing. (writing wise)
I think theres a point of comparison you can make between Berserk and Wheel of Time. Wheel of Times author Robert Jordan passed away before he could publish the end of his series, and it was picked up by an author (hand picked by Jordans wife) who finished the series. The new authors first book is very clunky, there's a character (Mat) that the new author has gone on to say that he just didn't get in his first go. But in his next 2 where he finishes it out that clunk starts to go away and he gets into the flow of finishing this other authors series. Brandon Sanderson is not Robert Jordan, he is a significantly less talented writer. But after he was able to shake that clunk off he managed to deliver AN ending to the Wheel of Time that was ultimately satisfying.
Those first few new Berserk chapters are very clunky. But I am willing to give the team a bit more time to shake that clunk off and deliver something meaningful for the ending of the greatest fantasy story ever told. Like John said it will never be THE ending of Berserk, like with Wheel of Time the story ended with it's author. This is AN ending of Berserk.
AMoL is the best WoT book tho. It couldn't have been without the amazingness of the full series, but it just is.
'Significantly less talented' is crazy 😂
just need to show some love that this dropped the day I had a near 4 hour car journey I'd been stressing about for weeks. What a great way to spend it listening to you fine folks.
Does John call himself the Final Gamer cause he came in dead last in Dokapon?