Something that wasn't mentioned about Yellow Roman Cancel (YRC) is that activating it would slow down the entire screen no matter how far away you are from your opponent. So a common strategy to impose your pressure was to throw out a fireball, YRC, and then cover any air approaches with your own jump-in. The only way to prevent this was for the opponent to also use YRC. Strive implemented a smart solution by having the effect of RC affect a circle around your character and if the opponent was outside that circle, they wouldn't be slowed down. Edit: with the change to Fast RC in Season 2 of Strive, Roman Cancels can cost less than 50% meter, but you still need to have 50% in the first place to activate it. You just get to keep a bit of your meter afterwards.
A lot of the stuff you could do with YRC you can even still do with purple or blue RC, and drift RC is even better when you're close enough to slow down your opponent. The big thing is really the full-screen projectile + follow-up that favors soem characters way more than others or the "screw it, YRC" as it's commonly known. You can sort of do something similar in Strive with projectile + fast RC, especially good on Ram with sword toss when the opponent is near the corner, but it relies a lot more on the opponent already being on the defensive in some small capacity. Overall, the changes made to RC in Strive I think is widely regarded to only having been positive.
YRC also had the problem of YRC OS where from 25-29% meter you could YRC every hit in an air combo and it would automatically OS for if the opponent's burst and give you a cancel if they did. The fullscreen slowdown also ate inputs often so approaches with YRC would fuck up Zato trying to do negative edge nobiru for an anti air.
@@PakuTheMagnificent That was only in Xrd - Sign - where you could OS YRC a Burst, every subsequent version treated Burst startup as being in hitstun so you couldn't YRC that.
I'd argue the reason V-ism is particularly powerful is the last shadow echoing your moves which makes it possible to set up unblockable situations, alongside the damage and crouch cancel setups. Oh and you can activate at 50%. For KOF HD mode you also get the benefit of all your normal attacks gaining special cancelability, this only came into play in a few loops (IE Yuri cl.C into butt into air fireball, Ralf far C into qcf+C into far C) or if you dropped and still had time (any overhead that didn't hard knock down was now a potential combo starter).
Ash actually does have HD mode in KOF15. One of his supers allows for the same combos as KOF13, but I think it's fair since his regular damage is so low, and if you drop that combo you will NOT get the meter for it again.
That's a way of saying but still incorrect. The truth is that some KOF games since the 2000s got an universal combo mechanic, with different rules each but with the basic final effect of extending combos in special ways. Then the combo mechanics of KOF 02 and 13 are related to free cancels, which made both the most famous combo mechanics of the series. KOF 13 only brought it back because 02 made a revolution in the series with that new idea. But Ash specifically has a super move that allows free cancels for a limited time, that reminds of those special mechanics of KOF 02 and 13. But Ash has that super since his debut in KOF 03 and kept it until now. And secondly, your idea is wrong because that super doesn't give Ash all abilities of the Hyper Drive mode on.
@@JohnGaming55 I’m sorry but you didn’t understand what he said. He said with out and most character can’t get tod unless they go into max made with out canceling which no one does. Pls stop being a jerk. Also ash can kill with 3 meter depend on the set up but it is usually hard to do so people go for the 4 meter version which is still drop regularly
The ground bounce \ dribble mechanic in Hakuto no Ken is hilarious to me. I think the idea was that no one would be able to combo off of the bounce once it gets to a certain speed, but people found a way.
Most Arcsys games attempt to prevent infinites by increasing character weight as combos go on, but in HNK, I believe there's a way to overflow the weight value to create basketball infinites that bounce characters off the top of the screen. I'm sure somebody more informed will be able to break it down more accurately.
@GenericSoda the game literally just keeps decreasing the launch height until it goes negative which causes it to start bouncing them higher and higher as it gets lower and lower into the negatives
As GenericSoda said,the developers of hnk tried to prevent the infinites by adding a mehanic in wich the pushback, bounce and fall speed increase with the number of hits,trying to make it very hard for you to keep the combo going.This works pretty well,you can hardly do a 20 hit combo,but the problem is that work only on ground combos.If you manage to do a combo and at some point you do some hits in the air,the system get bugged and the pushback turn near to 0 or you will get pushed very weak(i think the air pushback has bigger priority and overrides the ground pushback,since aerial hit have almost no pushback and your enemy will be treated as airborne because he bounces back in air all time)like the pushback you get when you do light hits chain.I remember that i read this on a forum a long time ago and also i tested it out with infinite meters so i can spam boost and the only times i could do a basuke(basket) combo was by using an air combo,couldn't get a dribble in anyway only by doing ground combos.
That's not really a mechanic but a literal oversight on how the game handles up and down movement due to literally being a tweaked Guilty Gear 1 engine and because doing an OTG doesn't push you backwards + dash cancel mechanic being available mid attack and having literally up to 5 dash cancels available for free. Bounce in HnK is not a mechanic but literally some kind of upwards movement overflow.
Something you didn't mention about Baroque us that you get a damage boost in proportion to how much red health you sacrificed. You could get ABSURD damage if you have enough red health.
too bad that its braindead easy to get rid of recoverable health so that is why we rarely see the dnf Baroque cancel if it wasn't easy to get rid of recoverable health then dnf duel would be more interesting.
A-groove is the custom combo in CVS2 not N-groove (N groove had 3 stocks for 3 level 1s or you could break a stock for a damage boost and then access to level 3 super), A-groove was also really strong but no crouch cancel which is what enabled the jump infinites in A3 (I think it was fixed in A3 Upper).
The big problem with Xrd's YRC is that it was also a fullscreen slowdown that would eat your opponents inputs during it. Doing a YRC on approach could easily eat part of your opponents inputs for a reversal, either preventing it from coming out or getting the wrong move out. Bless Strive for adding a area of effect to roman cancels.
I really do miss the the old Max Mode of KoF, its really fun to use and allows for cool looking combos, i honestly hope they bring it back for the next games of the series
KOF Max mode was born broken in KOF 02 and continued being broken in 13. SNK made it broken on purpose following the MvC philosophy of making broken a positive quality. And even with the watered down and "fairer" versions made for 14 and 15, they still mess up the games. Max mode is just SNK's version of Capcom's custom combos, where it isn't any less broken than in SFA. In the beginning I was a fan of the mechanic since 02 but looking back on it, i question if it really did good to the series. Maybe that's my bias as an old fan from before 02, but I wish the series didn't turn so fixated into exaggerated combo mechanics. It was a good idea of Capcom abandoning custom combos. They came up with better ideas of combo extension mechanics like FADC and V-Trigger cancel.
As broken as it is, but they make do with how complex the input tolerance is with the game, so i think its a fair trade tho. Pulling out a full neo max from HD is not a simple task, and some might require the players own creativity to adapt. I'd prefer this than the simplified button with more balanced "overdrive" mode that isnt very rewarding for those who actually played Fighting game as it is~
@@famisepta7308 "Pulling out a full neo max from HD is not a simple task" It's as simple or difficult as you make it. Anyone with halfway decent execution can confirm into HD, cl.C command normal xx special move xx DM xx NeoMAX and do 800+ damage for 3 meters + HD. Most practical HD combos are fairly simple loops anyway.
@@AirLancer If we put it on Mr Karate standard, yeah, dude can throw such combos with 2 meters with Full HD or 3 Meters with 1-2 HD cancel. Tho maybe its just my preference, but the rush feeling in KOF XIII with HD cancel (that sometimes extend to more just a combo cancel, but also sudden mix up on higher level) is great tho.
Funny thing about mega crash, I actually distinctly remember Ryu shouting "mega crash!" and doing said mechanic in very early beta gameplay footage of Marvel 3 all the way back when it was first revealed. Seems they had considered putting it in at some point but removed it during development.
The juggle infinites in SFA3 were due to a mistake in the combo system -- there was a relaxed combo system during the first jump, and crouching while landing and immediately jumping again did not count as landing. V-ism made it easy to start a juggle combo.
Overall it was a mistake to give A3 those new juggle rules and that new broken custom combo (not that the A2 custom combo wasn't anyways). Those two things put together was a "combo" that didn't help the game. But actually that was probably what Capcom wanted, to create very broken combos. When we think that years later the devs could have been wiser and toned down CvS2's custom combos (A Groove)... But no, they gave it new and more stupid cancel rules and special juggle rules.
The Doom TAC combos for MarlinPie are amazing and hype af. Also TAC stop hit decay when the opp is in the air but people find rejump combos that made up infinites. If you can do it you basically can kill from anything like grabs
The key thing about TAC infinites is that you need to avoid being in a “neutral grounded position”. It’s easiest to see with Sentinel but if you time an attack so that the character doing the combo is in hit stop right as they land on the ground it causes the landing animation to stay a few frames long than the actual recovery of the landing so you can jump again without ever entering a “neutral grounded position”.
Technically, with the change to fast roman cancels in season 2, there's some heinous crimes that can be done with a very limited meter cost. Cue the clip of daru labbing Stroke FPRC Megalomania and getting it for 60 meter
I'd argue that custom combos in Alpha 2 were even more busted. CC activation had a frame 0 hit box that while doing no damage itself, would open up anyone in close range and not preemptively holding back; this most likely resulted in them eating the whole combo.
There was this one Japanese PS1 3D fighter, which I have but can't remember the name of, that fixed the infinite problem. It was very simple. All it did was record your inputs and if there was any repeat the combo would automatically break. The KOF character assist. It became super broken where if you used the right assist character you could do a combo ending in a super, call in character assist and do another combo to knock them out.
Strikers in KOF00 was such a broken mechanic because it had its own meter and some assists pretty much guaranteed you a TOD. Top Asian players decided to limit the mechanic to only one loop or so for tournament play, so players would have to further develop their neutral, pressure and mix-up game, which ultimately strengthened them and they ended up dominating KOF for many years to come, even today (Chinese and Korean players are particularly, ridiculously strong in KOF).
I think MK4 comes to mind as well. That game had custom combos and everytime I wanted to make a long one the game will automatically break it and knock back the opponents. It can be easily fixed by just measuring the amount of damage you have dealt in one combo, if devs dont do anything to solve it its becasue they are intentionally allowing you to do it.
What broke V-ISM though was the fact that you could cancel the landing animation with a crouch, preventing the air recovery, and continuing the juggle. Same with TAC, the infinities happened because you could cancel out of the landing animation because which is what turned on the hitstun decay.
Me and my brother called V-ism as "V-ism is V for Vega". He forgot to mention the takeaway of charging for charge attacks. An entire screen of blue effects from all angles from Vega.
Some corrections about V-ISM in Alpha 3. It is broken, but not for some of the reasons you mentioned: 1) Zangief doesn't have an infinite in A3. The characters with reliable infinites are Sodom, Karin, Vega, Ryu, Sagat, Cody, Rose, Chun-li, Ken, and Birdie. Rolento, Blanka and Balrog technically have infinites, but are much harder to land in a real match due to limited setups or basically requiring TAS level execution in Rolento's case. 2) V-ISM wasn't really crazy because you could do custom combos and cancel moves into each other. Customs worked very similarly in Alpha 2 and especially CvS2 where they're almost identical to A3's. Also, they're rarely ever used for straight pressure the way you're showing in this video because you can't block during the activation state, so any jab or fireball or whatever will kick you out of V-ISM mode and all your meter will be gone for nothing, or people will just run and wait the meter out -- in which case, you again wasted the meter for like no damage. For those corner strings you showed, for example, they can just alpha counter or air block and roll out even if they're stuck in the corner. 3) What really made V-ISM crazy was the combo of crouch cancel infinites and invincible startup on activates. You basically had a universal "parry" of sorts that would net you huge damage if you read an opponent's attack timing or activated VS something reactable. Again, this is why A-Groove is so dangerous in CvS2 and is probably why SNK opted to not give activates any invincibility in the KoF games. Activates were basically "yolo DP into FADC Ultra" before SF4 existed. Most of the infinite setups have guaranteed counters, but they're still dangerous for obvious reasons. 4) Customs in CvS2 work literally almost the same way as A3 except there's no juggle limit tied to the neutral state because that game had no air tech/flip system, so no infinites. However, you can use them to juggle and pressure in exactly the same way. In fact, they're even stronger for that in CvS2 because your opponent isn't able to tech flip out, so you can do pretty much whatever you want for the juggle sequence, whereas A3 needed very specific move sequences to not let them hit neutral and flip. That actually means CvS2 customs are stronger on a base level because you can convert more easily from more situations. They're just not as notorious because crouch cancel infinites don't exist in that game, but the juggles themselves usually actually do the same damage or more as A3 customs. Like your content, but research was kinda sus.
There's similar mechanics to Mega Crash in Fate: Unlimited Codes (spend 2 out of 3 bars to burst out of a combo) and the Naruto: Clash of Ninja games (spend 75% chakra to vanish). The latter solved for the snowball effect by making the defender gain a lot of chakra on hit...making them basically KI's combo breakers, but *easier*.
HD combo maybe a bit overpowered in XIII but again the combo execution are still hard, and its also fun since its kinda testing your creativity, like you wanna do big damage or you wanna do a swaggy combo?
Yellow Roman Cancel is the sucessor of FRC or False Roman cancel aka Blue RC from Guilty Gear X2 and Accent Core, in which you could cancel some moves before the active frames came out for 25 tension to various benefits, like Sol and Ky being able to run behind their projectiles or Sol again canceling Riot Stomp on the way foward to get a massive speed boost to his aerial moment, but the difference is that the frames to do a FRC on these games were really tight like 2 frames for Sol's Gun Flame, so it was actually a really skill and timing reliant ability, unlike YRC.
Honestly, i hate how FRC works. Like, if those 2 framw windows let you do the RC for 25%, and flubbing it meant you spent 50%, i would find it far better. That's just me though.
It means force, not false. Not all windows are 2f, it varies from 1 to 4. Another major thing about frc is that it can only be done out of specific moves, so coupled with the tight window its highly situational.
@@funkuro I mean the hype is real but i would rather FRC be a reward for skillful play, but not 100% necessary to RC something like Gunflame. If you don't want to spend the time learning FRC timings, then you could just do regular RCs, at a higher cost. But instead it's honestly the one reason i don't like +R nearly as much as Xrd and Strive. That, and no input buffer.
Another thing worth mentioning about YRC is how it eats your opponent's inputs, but lets you buffer whatever you want during the slowdown. Add this to the afforementioned benefits and it becomes pretty clear why it was so controversial along with Blitz Charge.
I think the Red Parry mechanics should make a comeback it gave great punishes and high reward for being a skilled player. also made some matchups playable .
Custom Combos (V-Ism) was introduced in Street Fighter Alpha 2. In Street Fighter Alpha 3, it was made its own selectable play style. Also, it appears in CVS2 as its own super meter option as "A Groove". So its in 3 games.
@@teezee9387 To be fair, in 2003 and XI, it's not all that good a super anyways, and the only way Ash can do it is if he's selected as team leader in those games (which hardly anyone does because there are much better leader picks). Idk about XII, but no one plays XII anyways. But otherwise, whoever said it's a callback to 13 is basically what happens when people treat KOF13 as if it's somehow the first and best KOF and everyone starts to parrot that idea. Hopefully that didn't come across as passive aggressive, KOF has a lot of misconceptions behind it.
In Kof 2003 the install super was weak since all you could do was just throw fireballs without charge custom combos were given to him in XI (mostly corner only). In XIII and XV thanks to [4]6 K you can now do corner carry and loops. Also if cancelled from a super or special Sans Cullote has no scaling.
One honorable mention that I bring here is the "danger mode" in Guilty Gear Xrd... where your damage scale a lot less, if any scalation actually happens, the frame data changes a lot, some combos simply doesn't work anymore... It's just SO bizarre... And I'm GLAD AF ArcSys took it out on GG Strive!
in GGXX Accent Core (dunno about previous versions) The lower your life, the higher your defense, I haven't played xrd but is that what you're referring to?
@@CustodianPayge I was just tryna clarify if that's the mechanic they're referring to, ik Strive has it but I have only played a bit of strive and a ton of GGXX Accent Core + R
The original version of tech throw. In SFII when they added teching throws, when teching you took half damage from the throw instead of no damage. Moving forward I don't believe other games made this error.
I don't know if you remember, but there used to be a yrc os on xrd. If you had 25-49 meter you could do an rc after each hit. If the opponent tried to burst, you'd get a yrc and bait it for free
My favorite thing in XRD are YRCs. It's great to get your turn back in a pinch, it gives you extra time to think about anti air responses and it's generally a great mechanic, in my opinion. I can see why some would disliked it, but I'm always excited when my opponent yard YRC and we get in a taking turns war hahah
Armor mode was really ridiculous. And SNK was literally near death so I guess that's why the devs didnt even bother trying to balance armor mode in KOF 00.
Honestly TAC wouldn't have been nearly as problematic if losing the 1/3 didn't completely turn off every single infinite protection mechanic in the game.
TAC is fun as hell to pull off but I agree its a little too easy to abuse, especially if the opponent doesnt know it has directional variants (as is the case with my unfortunate roommates)
Suggestion: list of old abandoned mechanics that could return to new games, identical or not. (Not like "SF3 parry" but really different abandoned ideas)
I want the timed rc back from plus r. Those were only for canceling things at specific timings for specific uses but at a reduced cost of 25 percent. Feels so good to hit a bunch of those and feels less crazy compared to yrc.
Smash Brawl - Random Tripping. In brawl while dashing or turning around your character may randomly trip putting you in a down state. This can ruin combos, zoning, neutral game, etc. Depending on the situation this can very well cost you the match, as your opponent will at the very least get an advantage but could also allow them to get free hits in. It's not even that rare and since it's random it might favor one player over the other
I do not play fighting games, not then not now nor ever (aside from smash) but your videos are Soo interesting and so entertaining, passionate and well informed I can't help to watch all of them
Fun fact, in Strive, Chipp can momentum fling with grounded Diagonal Alpha Blade + PRC+ any normal immediately after, so you can full screen overhead someone with Chipp. This also applies to aerial Horizontal Alpha Blade, which is much better, but gives less distance
I find this list expecting you to list Random Tripping in Smash Bros. Brawl, and wow, you're a case of Everyone Has Standards. So here you are calling out free speed, excessive reward, toxic guess creation, surplus cost-effectiveness with the offense, and more free speed. Of course, Unconditional Flinching will always be needlessly unpleasant to newbies, so I made a blog post title "Combos and how Kid Icarus Uprising addresses them" recently bringing to attention why Kid Icarus Uprising has the right idea in fixing the problem and just needs to treat it with better care.
It was A-Groove that was for custom combos. N-Groove was more like KoF'98 where spending one bar for Advance Mode and spending another bar for a super turns into a Lv3, costing 2 bars instead of 3.
Surprised to not see Primal Rage's weird special move-inputs that required you to hold multiple buttons plus a motion input, as opposed to a motion input followed by a button.
He doesn't mention what really makes V-ism broken in Alpha 3: the shadow that can hit you like the infamous broken KOF 98 Chizuru super. That makes impossible to block hits in many situations because the character is hitting above and the shadow below or viceversa.
Isn't yellow roman cancel just an easier version of force roman cancel for a lot of moves in previous games, where with very particular timing on certain moves you can get a discounted blue cancel? A lot of fireballs had it.
the thing that made YRC extra oppressive (that he didnt mention) was that it was also a fullscreen slowdown, making it way easier for you to get in or enforce pressure on the opponent not only due to the fireball and whatnot, but due to the opponent physically being unable to fight back sometimes
There used to be false (blue) roman cancels which did the exact same thing as yellow roman cancels, but only certain moves could use false roman cancels and they had to be done with a certain timing, and some of them had a very small frame window. So these yellow roman cancels are really just easy mode false roman cancels.
I think one mechanic missing from this video is Pandora Mode in SFxT. It was an interesting idea in a team fighting game to sacrifice one of your character to boost the remaining one with infinite gauge for EX and Super. It was not that effective in reality to have that system in a game with already another system (the infamous gem system... could talk about that one too)
is it a coincidence two of these games broke my dpads in training mode or mission mode, Morgana soul fist fly unfly Chris G combos, and KOF with the back QCF's cancel's into QFC forward into Shoryuken into back QCF again etc, like, seriously
There is another that I have not seen in a while. I liked the mechanic where you did the Haduken with the tag switch buttons and you did double super or reverse haduken and you controlled and did unlimited timed supers with you tag partner.I think The arcade game was marvel vs street fighter
You got me! Definitely love YRC, I just hate the slowdown. Even though it kinda makes the technique more reactable--I feel like it still favored the user more and often times forces the second player to yrc which just creates a stale situation. Tho maybe in the end no slow-down would be even worse lol. Love the slowdown with RRC tho.
More than time slow down, something that I found quite crazy about Xrd YRC is the fact that some attacks gain some sort of crazy AF momentum, giving movement options that shouldn't even exist. Like Zato's Shadow Gallery YRC when he appears on the floor suddenly pushing him half screen forward. I think they removed this in Revelator and Rev2, but things like these made the mechanic fun. Strive sorta took this back by making the extra movement optional after triggering the RC, which was great because now you had the option to decide if you wanted to either remain neutral, let the momentum carry you by canceling the time stop with a normal or displacing your char's body forward, backward, etc
I actually like Megacrash in TvC as it acts as a pseudo combo limiter. Comboing off of it is dumb but I do think it costing meter or red life is the best way to add a combo breaker in something like MvC.
Honestly I don't agree that YRC is too powerful. Misusing YRC is a pretty easy way to lose a round, because it also gives you a 6 second meter penalty where you essentially cannot gain any meter at all, so in the end it costs a decent chunk more than the 25% upfront that you have to pay for it. Not to mention that while they're fun, a lot of the movement YRC options are really gimmicky for 25 meter. For instance, Potemkin would never seriously use ICPM YRC to fly at the opponent, he'd either save it for Hammerfall YRC, or an RRC to make Hammerfall safe on block or to convert hits into good combos, or Giganter for his corner TODs.
When A3 was mentioned, I thought the broken mechanic would be guard crush (GC). A3 has a guard meter that depletes when blocking. When fully depleted, the character is stunned. Other games have a similar GC mechanic, but they fully restore the guard meter after the stun. I think only A3 has the mechanic of "stun and reduce the guard meter". This reduction also stacks, so each GC makes the next GC easier. Eventually, blocking anything more than like a jab or two would stun.
As a Raven player in Rev2 i loved YRC, 'cuz it started a lot of his pressure (ball, needle, etc.) and, with a bit of frame knowledge, allowed to make some moves safer (claws and 2H for example) while also resetting the pressure or opening opportunities for counterplay. Important note - YRC was only possible on starting and some active frames of the move, if you used RC anytime later - you got PRC for 50% Tension, so a bit of a knowledge check was needed to effectively use this mechanic. But yeah, overall it was somewhat busted, 'cuz it allowed you to "eat" your opponent's inputs in neutral, while he was slightly frozen and not blocking, trying to overpoke you or something. Or you could use YRC defensively to give you time to react to some broken shit like select IAD attacks, Ky's Greed Sever or Faust's 6H, probably even countering some stuff with 6P. For the options that it gave you in neutral 25% Tension was kinda fair IMO. It's not the level "oh fuck, I screwed up" PRC, or "hehe, boi, combo video time" RRC type of stuff.
Haven't finished the vid yet but the drive mechanic from KoF 13 was what made it my favorite game from my childhood. I still love the recent games but i just want my special to special cancels back. 🥲
@@kuwandak You are acting like one by saying that instead of discuss it why you don't agree. I also like the drive mechanic, can be an interest concept if is balanced properly.
@@Ramsey276one Ash is not even broken, I don't understand your comment more than being a personal issue with the character being annoying in that case. Which can happen, I hate certain characters because how annoying their personalities or the voices can be.
I want the Mega Crash burst back. For real it added a level of depth to that game and made it so you weren't just passively watching your character get smacked. Had to decide to spend, or not. It's like the combo breaker in KI, and the counter breaker in that. Made EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION a thinking game. You could NEVER be passive.
The bound system from Tekken 6 and TAG 2 I don't think will make a comeback because it fueled so many character like Lars and Bryan who benefited from it so much
KOF Max mode was born broken in KOF 02 and continued being broken in 13. SNK made it broken on purpose following the MvC philosophy of making broken a positive quality. And even with the watered down and "fairer" versions made for 14 and 15, they still mess up the games. Max mode is just SNK's version of Capcom's custom combos, where it isn't any less broken than in SFA. In the beginning I was a fan of the mechanic since 02 but looking back on it, i question if it really did good to the series. Maybe that's my bias as an old fan from before 02, but I wish the series didn't turn so fixated into exaggerated combo mechanics. It was a good idea of Capcom abandoning custom combos. They came up with better ideas of combo extension mechanics like FADC and V-Trigger cancel
Not tryna be that guy, but aren’t ISMs from Alpha 3 basically grooves from CVS2? So they did kinda have the same concept of changing your fighting style based on what you chose
Not tryna be that guy, but people follow logic orders. A3 came first. Grooves are updated Isms. Also all Grooves are just ideas taken from old games anyways. And Custom combos were created by SF so it's ok to reference it the way he did.
Also not tryna be that guy, but Isms aren't even an original idea of Capcom. It was a blatant ripoff of SNK's KOF 97, where it works the same but with two options. That idea was also added to SNK's Last Blade 1, before SFA3. So it's also right to say: Isms like in KOF 97. Whatever.
13:30 In XV Max mode actually _is_ often used for custom combos like XIII's, obviously they aren't as crazy but these 2 traits are very important: -In XV at least, EX moves are excellent combo filler, lots of moves combo into them and they often lead into each other (or normal special moves) pretty well. -Max mode allows you to perform EX moves for free, _in addition_ to supers costing reduced or no bar. So Max mode combos do tend to be longer, more freeform ones still. Heck, I saw an Ash combo just like the XIII one you showed but in XV, performed using Max mode and his install super. It's less potent than XIII's though, since Max mode eats up 2 meter (while XIII's uses its own separate bar). Also, I do wish YRC would come back...I feel like other RCs using half of meter makes me not want to use them. That's the same amount as a super, and I'd rather not spend half my meter on something as minor as safer neutral plays when I could just save it to do big damage with a super for the same amount of meter.
the baroque system is TvC sounds very similar to dnf duel's conversion. You can spend your recoverable health to cancel anything and it even gives you meter
Even super meter wasn't used in 3D games with very few exceptions BTW, Tekken only had it for a few guest characters (like Akuma) in 7 and got universal bar in 8, DoA only got it in 6. But 5 had finishers only used from extra stun states with unique inputs.
I was curious to see if Kakuto Chojin: Back Alley Brutal would be on the list. I didn't get my hopes super high, but it does have two neat mechanics to it: 1:. Proper fight music does not start playing until a character succesfully hits the other fighter. The first one to land a succesful hit has that character's theme music playing for the rest of the round. 2: The health meter doubles as the super meter. Health drops down from the edge to the middle of the screen alongside a horizontal bar, but the super meter builds up *from* the middle towards the edge. The less health a character has, the quicker the super meter builds up. Nowadays Kakuto Chojin is mainly known for an incident regarding the theme song of the character Asad, but i think these two things are still pretty cool and worth remembering. I wouldn't mind it getting a second chance someday and *really* become something of its own. Better story, for one. And more to the characters.
Never heard of this game before your comment. I'd like to play it, though that looks to be quite impossible nowadays without emulation. I like to try out old fighters that I never knew about before
@@cirro51 Glad to be able to provide, and that there's people interested in it. If you can find a way to play it sometime, i hope it will be an interesting venture! But if not, i recommend a YT channel by a user named Silver Haired Devil. He's probably dove the deepest into the mechanics of KC and each character out of anyone on and outside of the platform, and he has various videos showcasing character movesets. This one's from the fighter named Asad (whose theme causes such a commotion) ua-cam.com/video/lQ3fTPIL6ss/v-deo.html You can probably find him on various other videos on the platform about KC giving explanations, or you could simply leave a comment to ask him about... whatever you'd like to know about the game. I forgot to mention that the game's got two moveset modes for every single character: Kakuto moveset and Chojin moveset. If i remember correctly, the Kakuto moveset is quite basic, whereas the Chojin moveset is unlocked for a character after beating the game with them and meant for more advanced players. And if you're ever interested in a PS2 3D adventure-type game with an art style like Rayman and combat system like Tekken, you might find some interest in Kya: Dark Lineage. For a platformer-like game, it goes *very* in-depth with combat options for the main character.
@@Ramsey276one Man, that strategy guide must be *super* rare nowadays. I didn't knwo it came in multiple languages. And heck yeah. Kakuto Chojin might not be the very best game around, but there's a few things going for it, and I think it deserves to be remembered.
@@jurtheorc8117 sorry, I meant the movelists are in the character language for non-English speaking characters, but I think it would be costly to get one now…
SFA3's ISM system was good on paper, but it was also not good in practice, because it was always best for the vast majority of the roster to always go for V-ISM, and a few went with A-ISM, and no one went with X-ISM, leaving one of the 3 options the game gave completely worthless. Also a fun fact, the ISM system was the inspiration for the Variation system for Mortal Kombat X and Mortal Kombat 11, and both games clearly made a much better job with that system then SFA3, because while not every single Variation in MKX or Kustom move in MK11 is viable, at least it's only going by character and there are characters that have all 3 Variations in MKX and either all or majority of their moves in MK11 are viable, unlike in SFA3 which forces the vast majority of it's roster to go with only one option, a few with only 2 options, and none with 3 options.
with KOFXIII finally getting rollback i've been getting back into it and honestly getting HD loops is one of the best feelings i've had in a fighting game recently. it's hard--some of the characters i play will punish you kinda severely for misinputting by giving you super instead of a canceled DP into a QCF--but it's so cool and again, the game's got rollback on PS4/5, no better time to try it out than now afaic
Another game did have burst on normal meter that caused problems: combo breakers in MK vs DC. It's also in MK9 and MKX, but in those games there are not ways to combo off combo breakers (... that I'm aware of)
Something that wasn't mentioned about Yellow Roman Cancel (YRC) is that activating it would slow down the entire screen no matter how far away you are from your opponent. So a common strategy to impose your pressure was to throw out a fireball, YRC, and then cover any air approaches with your own jump-in. The only way to prevent this was for the opponent to also use YRC. Strive implemented a smart solution by having the effect of RC affect a circle around your character and if the opponent was outside that circle, they wouldn't be slowed down.
Edit: with the change to Fast RC in Season 2 of Strive, Roman Cancels can cost less than 50% meter, but you still need to have 50% in the first place to activate it. You just get to keep a bit of your meter afterwards.
Yeah my favorite part about YRC is how it was so strong that the best counter to YRC was YRC.
A lot of the stuff you could do with YRC you can even still do with purple or blue RC, and drift RC is even better when you're close enough to slow down your opponent. The big thing is really the full-screen projectile + follow-up that favors soem characters way more than others or the "screw it, YRC" as it's commonly known. You can sort of do something similar in Strive with projectile + fast RC, especially good on Ram with sword toss when the opponent is near the corner, but it relies a lot more on the opponent already being on the defensive in some small capacity.
Overall, the changes made to RC in Strive I think is widely regarded to only having been positive.
YRC also had the problem of YRC OS where from 25-29% meter you could YRC every hit in an air combo and it would automatically OS for if the opponent's burst and give you a cancel if they did. The fullscreen slowdown also ate inputs often so approaches with YRC would fuck up Zato trying to do negative edge nobiru for an anti air.
@@PakuTheMagnificent That was only in Xrd - Sign - where you could OS YRC a Burst, every subsequent version treated Burst startup as being in hitstun so you couldn't YRC that.
Throw YRC OS was such a silly and painful trick to deal with X_x
I'd argue the reason V-ism is particularly powerful is the last shadow echoing your moves which makes it possible to set up unblockable situations, alongside the damage and crouch cancel setups. Oh and you can activate at 50%.
For KOF HD mode you also get the benefit of all your normal attacks gaining special cancelability, this only came into play in a few loops (IE Yuri cl.C into butt into air fireball, Ralf far C into qcf+C into far C) or if you dropped and still had time (any overhead that didn't hard knock down was now a potential combo starter).
The reason I never had an issue with the HD mode in KOF13 was because of the execution it required, as well as meter usage.
Yeah, usually big damage is a fair reward for offloading all of your resources in one combo
The best v-ism is doing sonic booms and filling the entire screen.
TOUHOU-ism!
Ash actually does have HD mode in KOF15. One of his supers allows for the same combos as KOF13, but I think it's fair since his regular damage is so low, and if you drop that combo you will NOT get the meter for it again.
That's a way of saying but still incorrect. The truth is that some KOF games since the 2000s got an universal combo mechanic, with different rules each but with the basic final effect of extending combos in special ways. Then the combo mechanics of KOF 02 and 13 are related to free cancels, which made both the most famous combo mechanics of the series. KOF 13 only brought it back because 02 made a revolution in the series with that new idea.
But Ash specifically has a super move that allows free cancels for a limited time, that reminds of those special mechanics of KOF 02 and 13. But Ash has that super since his debut in KOF 03 and kept it until now. And secondly, your idea is wrong because that super doesn't give Ash all abilities of the Hyper Drive mode on.
@@carlosaugusto9821 Those are all fair points, but the man still gets 80% combos without needing 5 bars which is insanely good.
man seeing that one recent clip of xiaohai vs mok brought me back to 13
@@TrueUnderDawgGaming if you’re spending five bars to only do 80% damage, what are you doing?
@@JohnGaming55 I’m sorry but you didn’t understand what he said. He said with out and most character can’t get tod unless they go into max made with out canceling which no one does. Pls stop being a jerk. Also ash can kill with 3 meter depend on the set up but it is usually hard to do so people go for the 4 meter version which is still drop regularly
The ground bounce \ dribble mechanic in Hakuto no Ken is hilarious to me. I think the idea was that no one would be able to combo off of the bounce once it gets to a certain speed, but people found a way.
Most Arcsys games attempt to prevent infinites by increasing character weight as combos go on, but in HNK, I believe there's a way to overflow the weight value to create basketball infinites that bounce characters off the top of the screen.
I'm sure somebody more informed will be able to break it down more accurately.
@GenericSoda the game literally just keeps decreasing the launch height until it goes negative which causes it to start bouncing them higher and higher as it gets lower and lower into the negatives
As GenericSoda said,the developers of hnk tried to prevent the infinites by adding a mehanic in wich the pushback, bounce and fall speed increase with the number of hits,trying to make it very hard for you to keep the combo going.This works pretty well,you can hardly do a 20 hit combo,but the problem is that work only on ground combos.If you manage to do a combo and at some point you do some hits in the air,the system get bugged and the pushback turn near to 0 or you will get pushed very weak(i think the air pushback has bigger priority and overrides the ground pushback,since aerial hit have almost no pushback and your enemy will be treated as airborne because he bounces back in air all time)like the pushback you get when you do light hits chain.I remember that i read this on a forum a long time ago and also i tested it out with infinite meters so i can spam boost and the only times i could do a basuke(basket) combo was by using an air combo,couldn't get a dribble in anyway only by doing ground combos.
That's not really a mechanic but a literal oversight on how the game handles up and down movement due to literally being a tweaked Guilty Gear 1 engine and because doing an OTG doesn't push you backwards + dash cancel mechanic being available mid attack and having literally up to 5 dash cancels available for free.
Bounce in HnK is not a mechanic but literally some kind of upwards movement overflow.
Something you didn't mention about Baroque us that you get a damage boost in proportion to how much red health you sacrificed. You could get ABSURD damage if you have enough red health.
DNF duel has a mechanic almost exactly like Baroque, so I'd argue it has come back.
too bad that its braindead easy to get rid of recoverable health so that is why we rarely see the dnf Baroque cancel if it wasn't easy to get rid of recoverable health then dnf duel would be more interesting.
He wasn’t talking about Baroque
Their is a reason for that: 8-ing
They are a developer known for Bloody Roar before they worked on TvC and disappeared for a long time till DNF Duel.
Man…people just hear what they want to hear. He wasn’t talking about Baroque.
@@subterraneanretrogames556 "this game actually has 2 mechanics that never came back. The first is baroque."
It's so nice for a begginer like me to learn so much from your videos
A-groove is the custom combo in CVS2 not N-groove (N groove had 3 stocks for 3 level 1s or you could break a stock for a damage boost and then access to level 3 super), A-groove was also really strong but no crouch cancel which is what enabled the jump infinites in A3 (I think it was fixed in A3 Upper).
The big problem with Xrd's YRC is that it was also a fullscreen slowdown that would eat your opponents inputs during it. Doing a YRC on approach could easily eat part of your opponents inputs for a reversal, either preventing it from coming out or getting the wrong move out.
Bless Strive for adding a area of effect to roman cancels.
I really do miss the the old Max Mode of KoF, its really fun to use and allows for cool looking combos, i honestly hope they bring it back for the next games of the series
KOF Max mode was born broken in KOF 02 and continued being broken in 13. SNK made it broken on purpose following the MvC philosophy of making broken a positive quality. And even with the watered down and "fairer" versions made for 14 and 15, they still mess up the games.
Max mode is just SNK's version of Capcom's custom combos, where it isn't any less broken than in SFA. In the beginning I was a fan of the mechanic since 02 but looking back on it, i question if it really did good to the series. Maybe that's my bias as an old fan from before 02, but I wish the series didn't turn so fixated into exaggerated combo mechanics. It was a good idea of Capcom abandoning custom combos. They came up with better ideas of combo extension mechanics like FADC and V-Trigger cancel.
As broken as it is, but they make do with how complex the input tolerance is with the game, so i think its a fair trade tho. Pulling out a full neo max from HD is not a simple task, and some might require the players own creativity to adapt. I'd prefer this than the simplified button with more balanced "overdrive" mode that isnt very rewarding for those who actually played Fighting game as it is~
@@carlosaugusto9821 Max mode was only op on a few characters in 02. More than half the cast didn’t really benefit much from it.
@@famisepta7308 "Pulling out a full neo max from HD is not a simple task" It's as simple or difficult as you make it. Anyone with halfway decent execution can confirm into HD, cl.C command normal xx special move xx DM xx NeoMAX and do 800+ damage for 3 meters + HD. Most practical HD combos are fairly simple loops anyway.
@@AirLancer If we put it on Mr Karate standard, yeah, dude can throw such combos with 2 meters with Full HD or 3 Meters with 1-2 HD cancel. Tho maybe its just my preference, but the rush feeling in KOF XIII with HD cancel (that sometimes extend to more just a combo cancel, but also sudden mix up on higher level) is great tho.
Funny thing about mega crash, I actually distinctly remember Ryu shouting "mega crash!" and doing said mechanic in very early beta gameplay footage of Marvel 3 all the way back when it was first revealed. Seems they had considered putting it in at some point but removed it during development.
The juggle infinites in SFA3 were due to a mistake in the combo system -- there was a relaxed combo system during the first jump, and crouching while landing and immediately jumping again did not count as landing. V-ism made it easy to start a juggle combo.
Overall it was a mistake to give A3 those new juggle rules and that new broken custom combo (not that the A2 custom combo wasn't anyways). Those two things put together was a "combo" that didn't help the game.
But actually that was probably what Capcom wanted, to create very broken combos. When we think that years later the devs could have been wiser and toned down CvS2's custom combos (A Groove)... But no, they gave it new and more stupid cancel rules and special juggle rules.
The Doom TAC combos for MarlinPie are amazing and hype af. Also TAC stop hit decay when the opp is in the air but people find rejump combos that made up infinites. If you can do it you basically can kill from anything like grabs
The key thing about TAC infinites is that you need to avoid being in a “neutral grounded position”.
It’s easiest to see with Sentinel but if you time an attack so that the character doing the combo is in hit stop right as they land on the ground it causes the landing animation to stay a few frames long than the actual recovery of the landing so you can jump again without ever entering a “neutral grounded position”.
Technically, with the change to fast roman cancels in season 2, there's some heinous crimes that can be done with a very limited meter cost. Cue the clip of daru labbing Stroke FPRC Megalomania and getting it for 60 meter
Still need 50% though
I'd argue that custom combos in Alpha 2 were even more busted. CC activation had a frame 0 hit box that while doing no damage itself, would open up anyone in close range and not preemptively holding back; this most likely resulted in them eating the whole combo.
There was this one Japanese PS1 3D fighter, which I have but can't remember the name of, that fixed the infinite problem. It was very simple. All it did was record your inputs and if there was any repeat the combo would automatically break.
The KOF character assist. It became super broken where if you used the right assist character you could do a combo ending in a super, call in character assist and do another combo to knock them out.
Strikers in KOF00 was such a broken mechanic because it had its own meter and some assists pretty much guaranteed you a TOD. Top Asian players decided to limit the mechanic to only one loop or so for tournament play, so players would have to further develop their neutral, pressure and mix-up game, which ultimately strengthened them and they ended up dominating KOF for many years to come, even today (Chinese and Korean players are particularly, ridiculously strong in KOF).
I think MK4 comes to mind as well. That game had custom combos and everytime I wanted to make a long one the game will automatically break it and knock back the opponents. It can be easily fixed by just measuring the amount of damage you have dealt in one combo, if devs dont do anything to solve it its becasue they are intentionally allowing you to do it.
Fighters Impact is the PS1 game yer talking about
What broke V-ISM though was the fact that you could cancel the landing animation with a crouch, preventing the air recovery, and continuing the juggle. Same with TAC, the infinities happened because you could cancel out of the landing animation because which is what turned on the hitstun decay.
Me and my brother called V-ism as "V-ism is V for Vega". He forgot to mention the takeaway of charging for charge attacks. An entire screen of blue effects from all angles from Vega.
Caffeine Mode!
XD
Some corrections about V-ISM in Alpha 3. It is broken, but not for some of the reasons you mentioned:
1) Zangief doesn't have an infinite in A3. The characters with reliable infinites are Sodom, Karin, Vega, Ryu, Sagat, Cody, Rose, Chun-li, Ken, and Birdie. Rolento, Blanka and Balrog technically have infinites, but are much harder to land in a real match due to limited setups or basically requiring TAS level execution in Rolento's case.
2) V-ISM wasn't really crazy because you could do custom combos and cancel moves into each other. Customs worked very similarly in Alpha 2 and especially CvS2 where they're almost identical to A3's. Also, they're rarely ever used for straight pressure the way you're showing in this video because you can't block during the activation state, so any jab or fireball or whatever will kick you out of V-ISM mode and all your meter will be gone for nothing, or people will just run and wait the meter out -- in which case, you again wasted the meter for like no damage. For those corner strings you showed, for example, they can just alpha counter or air block and roll out even if they're stuck in the corner.
3) What really made V-ISM crazy was the combo of crouch cancel infinites and invincible startup on activates. You basically had a universal "parry" of sorts that would net you huge damage if you read an opponent's attack timing or activated VS something reactable. Again, this is why A-Groove is so dangerous in CvS2 and is probably why SNK opted to not give activates any invincibility in the KoF games. Activates were basically "yolo DP into FADC Ultra" before SF4 existed. Most of the infinite setups have guaranteed counters, but they're still dangerous for obvious reasons.
4) Customs in CvS2 work literally almost the same way as A3 except there's no juggle limit tied to the neutral state because that game had no air tech/flip system, so no infinites. However, you can use them to juggle and pressure in exactly the same way. In fact, they're even stronger for that in CvS2 because your opponent isn't able to tech flip out, so you can do pretty much whatever you want for the juggle sequence, whereas A3 needed very specific move sequences to not let them hit neutral and flip. That actually means CvS2 customs are stronger on a base level because you can convert more easily from more situations. They're just not as notorious because crouch cancel infinites don't exist in that game, but the juggles themselves usually actually do the same damage or more as A3 customs.
Like your content, but research was kinda sus.
what's really sus is thinking someone is going to read this wall lmao
@@Try_Hard_Dad ratio
Shame thumbs down dont show the number count
@@ChicCanyon does thumbs down even do anything on this garbage?
@Drumguy1211 makes show lower in the comment order...in theory
There's similar mechanics to Mega Crash in Fate: Unlimited Codes (spend 2 out of 3 bars to burst out of a combo) and the Naruto: Clash of Ninja games (spend 75% chakra to vanish). The latter solved for the snowball effect by making the defender gain a lot of chakra on hit...making them basically KI's combo breakers, but *easier*.
Incidentally, all 3 games are also made by Eighting.
@@Wolfedge75 Clash of Ninja is made by 8ing?
Wish I could play Tatsunoko vs Capcom again. Really loved that game.
HD combo maybe a bit overpowered in XIII but again the combo execution are still hard, and its also fun since its kinda testing your creativity, like you wanna do big damage or you wanna do a swaggy combo?
Your fighting game "history" vids, like these, are always instant plays for me. Keep it up!
Yellow Roman Cancel is the sucessor of FRC or False Roman cancel aka Blue RC from Guilty Gear X2 and Accent Core, in which you could cancel some moves before the active frames came out for 25 tension to various benefits, like Sol and Ky being able to run behind their projectiles or Sol again canceling Riot Stomp on the way foward to get a massive speed boost to his aerial moment, but the difference is that the frames to do a FRC on these games were really tight like 2 frames for Sol's Gun Flame, so it was actually a really skill and timing reliant ability, unlike YRC.
Honestly, i hate how FRC works. Like, if those 2 framw windows let you do the RC for 25%, and flubbing it meant you spent 50%, i would find it far better. That's just me though.
Some moves FRC on hit but like you said the window is extremely small. Potemkin's Mega Fist for example
@@gspandem1204 I prefer the window because the moment someone frc’s something twice in a row consistently I go crazy.
It means force, not false. Not all windows are 2f, it varies from 1 to 4. Another major thing about frc is that it can only be done out of specific moves, so coupled with the tight window its highly situational.
@@funkuro I mean the hype is real but i would rather FRC be a reward for skillful play, but not 100% necessary to RC something like Gunflame. If you don't want to spend the time learning FRC timings, then you could just do regular RCs, at a higher cost. But instead it's honestly the one reason i don't like +R nearly as much as Xrd and Strive. That, and no input buffer.
A groove in Cvs2 is 99% the exact thing.
xrd
me : ughh danger time
jm : it's something call YRC
me: whaa?????
Another thing worth mentioning about YRC is how it eats your opponent's inputs, but lets you buffer whatever you want during the slowdown. Add this to the afforementioned benefits and it becomes pretty clear why it was so controversial along with Blitz Charge.
I think the Red Parry mechanics should make a comeback it gave great punishes and high reward for being a skilled player. also made some matchups playable .
Custom Combos (V-Ism) was introduced in Street Fighter Alpha 2. In Street Fighter Alpha 3, it was made its own selectable play style. Also, it appears in CVS2 as its own super meter option as "A Groove". So its in 3 games.
When you swapped to Ash at the end I thought that you were gonna show how they gave him an install that does something similar to how HD mode was
Ah yes, the PANTLESS Super
I mean BOTTOM LESS
(Sans Culottes)
XD
Ash has always had that install super ever since his debut in KOF2003, it's not unique to KOF13 or 15.
@@Lichmassacre oh really? My bad, I'd heard they gave it to him in XV as a callback to 13 combos, I must've heard wrong
@@teezee9387 To be fair, in 2003 and XI, it's not all that good a super anyways, and the only way Ash can do it is if he's selected as team leader in those games (which hardly anyone does because there are much better leader picks). Idk about XII, but no one plays XII anyways. But otherwise, whoever said it's a callback to 13 is basically what happens when people treat KOF13 as if it's somehow the first and best KOF and everyone starts to parrot that idea. Hopefully that didn't come across as passive aggressive, KOF has a lot of misconceptions behind it.
In Kof 2003 the install super was weak since all you could do was just throw fireballs without charge custom combos were given to him in XI (mostly corner only).
In XIII and XV thanks to [4]6 K you can now do corner carry and loops. Also if cancelled from a super or special Sans Cullote has no scaling.
One honorable mention that I bring here is the "danger mode" in Guilty Gear Xrd... where your damage scale a lot less, if any scalation actually happens, the frame data changes a lot, some combos simply doesn't work anymore... It's just SO bizarre... And I'm GLAD AF ArcSys took it out on GG Strive!
in GGXX Accent Core (dunno about previous versions) The lower your life, the higher your defense, I haven't played xrd but is that what you're referring to?
@@JJSquirtle Nah Strive still has that. Its called "Guts" now and different characters have different amounts.
@@CustodianPayge I was just tryna clarify if that's the mechanic they're referring to, ik Strive has it but I have only played a bit of strive and a ton of GGXX Accent Core + R
@2:07 - it's A groove in CvS2, not N groove.
It's also cute that he doesn't think that A-Groove is almost exactly as busted as V-Ism, if not more so. Shows he really doesn't know CvS2 at all.
Skullgirls' tag system was never replicated, though a whole decade has passed since it premiered.
The original version of tech throw. In SFII when they added teching throws, when teching you took half damage from the throw instead of no damage. Moving forward I don't believe other games made this error.
I don't know if you remember, but there used to be a yrc os on xrd. If you had 25-49 meter you could do an rc after each hit. If the opponent tried to burst, you'd get a yrc and bait it for free
My favorite thing in XRD are YRCs. It's great to get your turn back in a pinch, it gives you extra time to think about anti air responses and it's generally a great mechanic, in my opinion. I can see why some would disliked it, but I'm always excited when my opponent yard YRC and we get in a taking turns war hahah
I love Street Fighter Alpha 3, especially the World Tour Mode. 😍
Better then 3S
For a broken kof mechanic that's never coming back, I feel like Armor mode from 99/2000 would be a better fit. It's way more broken than HD mode.
Armor mode was really ridiculous. And SNK was literally near death so I guess that's why the devs didnt even bother trying to balance armor mode in KOF 00.
I didn’t even know that TAC did all that. I always chose down because the ground bounce looked so cool
Honestly TAC wouldn't have been nearly as problematic if losing the 1/3 didn't completely turn off every single infinite protection mechanic in the game.
God I miss Hd mode and kof 13 combos. Doing crazy Shen Woo combos was so much fun
Man I thought I knew a lot about fighting games and these new terms got me looking them up lol awesome video JM!
TAC is fun as hell to pull off but I agree its a little too easy to abuse, especially if the opponent doesnt know it has directional variants (as is the case with my unfortunate roommates)
So I was just thinking:
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Marvel vs Capcom
Capcom vs SNK
Capcom changing their formula…
Suggestion: list of old abandoned mechanics that could return to new games, identical or not. (Not like "SF3 parry" but really different abandoned ideas)
HD combos may have been broken but they were the most fun I've ever had with a KOF mechanic
I want the timed rc back from plus r. Those were only for canceling things at specific timings for specific uses but at a reduced cost of 25 percent. Feels so good to hit a bunch of those and feels less crazy compared to yrc.
Some timings were CRAZY to land
I love that Custom Combos in Alpha 2 were pretty broken, and their solution was to break them even more in Alpha 3 with V-ISM haha.
Smash Brawl - Random Tripping.
In brawl while dashing or turning around your character may randomly trip putting you in a down state. This can ruin combos, zoning, neutral game, etc. Depending on the situation this can very well cost you the match, as your opponent will at the very least get an advantage but could also allow them to get free hits in. It's not even that rare and since it's random it might favor one player over the other
I do not play fighting games, not then not now nor ever (aside from smash) but your videos are Soo interesting and so entertaining, passionate and well informed I can't help to watch all of them
Fun fact, in Strive, Chipp can momentum fling with grounded Diagonal Alpha Blade + PRC+ any normal immediately after, so you can full screen overhead someone with Chipp. This also applies to aerial Horizontal Alpha Blade, which is much better, but gives less distance
I find this list expecting you to list Random Tripping in Smash Bros. Brawl, and wow, you're a case of Everyone Has Standards. So here you are calling out free speed, excessive reward, toxic guess creation, surplus cost-effectiveness with the offense, and more free speed.
Of course, Unconditional Flinching will always be needlessly unpleasant to newbies, so I made a blog post title "Combos and how Kid Icarus Uprising addresses them" recently bringing to attention why Kid Icarus Uprising has the right idea in fixing the problem and just needs to treat it with better care.
Great video. I have been wanting to know more about the history of fighting game mechanics and why they were introduced.
It was A-Groove that was for custom combos.
N-Groove was more like KoF'98 where spending one bar for Advance Mode and spending another bar for a super turns into a Lv3, costing 2 bars instead of 3.
we NEED kof xiii rollback!! i loved how insane drive cancel was but the netcode for that game was BOOTY!
Surprised to not see Primal Rage's weird special move-inputs that required you to hold multiple buttons plus a motion input, as opposed to a motion input followed by a button.
He doesn't mention what really makes V-ism broken in Alpha 3: the shadow that can hit you like the infamous broken KOF 98 Chizuru super. That makes impossible to block hits in many situations because the character is hitting above and the shadow below or viceversa.
Isn't yellow roman cancel just an easier version of force roman cancel for a lot of moves in previous games, where with very particular timing on certain moves you can get a discounted blue cancel? A lot of fireballs had it.
the thing that made YRC extra oppressive (that he didnt mention) was that it was also a fullscreen slowdown, making it way easier for you to get in or enforce pressure on the opponent not only due to the fireball and whatnot, but due to the opponent physically being unable to fight back sometimes
There used to be false (blue) roman cancels which did the exact same thing as yellow roman cancels, but only certain moves could use false roman cancels and they had to be done with a certain timing, and some of them had a very small frame window. So these yellow roman cancels are really just easy mode false roman cancels.
I think one mechanic missing from this video is Pandora Mode in SFxT. It was an interesting idea in a team fighting game to sacrifice one of your character to boost the remaining one with infinite gauge for EX and Super. It was not that effective in reality to have that system in a game with already another system (the infamous gem system... could talk about that one too)
is it a coincidence two of these games broke my dpads in training mode or mission mode, Morgana soul fist fly unfly Chris G combos, and KOF with the back QCF's cancel's into QFC forward into Shoryuken into back QCF again etc, like, seriously
There is another that I have not seen in a while. I liked the mechanic where you did the Haduken with the tag switch buttons and you did double super or reverse haduken and you controlled and did unlimited timed supers with you tag partner.I think The arcade game was marvel vs street fighter
You got me! Definitely love YRC, I just hate the slowdown. Even though it kinda makes the technique more reactable--I feel like it still favored the user more and often times forces the second player to yrc which just creates a stale situation. Tho maybe in the end no slow-down would be even worse lol. Love the slowdown with RRC tho.
"thanks for watching the whole video!"
me, who skipped to the end to hear him talk about KoF 13: you're welcome!
More than time slow down, something that I found quite crazy about Xrd YRC is the fact that some attacks gain some sort of crazy AF momentum, giving movement options that shouldn't even exist.
Like Zato's Shadow Gallery YRC when he appears on the floor suddenly pushing him half screen forward. I think they removed this in Revelator and Rev2, but things like these made the mechanic fun.
Strive sorta took this back by making the extra movement optional after triggering the RC, which was great because now you had the option to decide if you wanted to either remain neutral, let the momentum carry you by canceling the time stop with a normal or displacing your char's body forward, backward, etc
I actually like Megacrash in TvC as it acts as a pseudo combo limiter. Comboing off of it is dumb but I do think it costing meter or red life is the best way to add a combo breaker in something like MvC.
Honestly I don't agree that YRC is too powerful. Misusing YRC is a pretty easy way to lose a round, because it also gives you a 6 second meter penalty where you essentially cannot gain any meter at all, so in the end it costs a decent chunk more than the 25% upfront that you have to pay for it. Not to mention that while they're fun, a lot of the movement YRC options are really gimmicky for 25 meter. For instance, Potemkin would never seriously use ICPM YRC to fly at the opponent, he'd either save it for Hammerfall YRC, or an RRC to make Hammerfall safe on block or to convert hits into good combos, or Giganter for his corner TODs.
When A3 was mentioned, I thought the broken mechanic would be guard crush (GC). A3 has a guard meter that depletes when blocking. When fully depleted, the character is stunned. Other games have a similar GC mechanic, but they fully restore the guard meter after the stun. I think only A3 has the mechanic of "stun and reduce the guard meter". This reduction also stacks, so each GC makes the next GC easier. Eventually, blocking anything more than like a jab or two would stun.
The Alpha 3 infinites were because of crouching canceling. Vism did enable it more.
You forgot that Kick Factor was reintroduced in Divekick
As a Raven player in Rev2 i loved YRC, 'cuz it started a lot of his pressure (ball, needle, etc.) and, with a bit of frame knowledge, allowed to make some moves safer (claws and 2H for example) while also resetting the pressure or opening opportunities for counterplay. Important note - YRC was only possible on starting and some active frames of the move, if you used RC anytime later - you got PRC for 50% Tension, so a bit of a knowledge check was needed to effectively use this mechanic. But yeah, overall it was somewhat busted, 'cuz it allowed you to "eat" your opponent's inputs in neutral, while he was slightly frozen and not blocking, trying to overpoke you or something. Or you could use YRC defensively to give you time to react to some broken shit like select IAD attacks, Ky's Greed Sever or Faust's 6H, probably even countering some stuff with 6P. For the options that it gave you in neutral 25% Tension was kinda fair IMO. It's not the level "oh fuck, I screwed up" PRC, or "hehe, boi, combo video time" RRC type of stuff.
Let's go another video from the legendary skullgirls player:)
I hate any game where you can call for help infinitly/without any cost.
I also dislike the switch character during a fight's mechanics.
Haven't finished the vid yet but the drive mechanic from KoF 13 was what made it my favorite game from my childhood. I still love the recent games but i just want my special to special cancels back. 🥲
@@kuwandak Nah, I'm 20
@@kuwandak You are acting like one by saying that instead of discuss it why you don't agree. I also like the drive mechanic, can be an interest concept if is balanced properly.
Seeing Ash in XV:
“Hora… Sora yo…”
2P: KILL ME NOW
Ash: It’s happening… ;)
XD
@@Ramsey276one Ash is not even broken, I don't understand your comment more than being a personal issue with the character being annoying in that case. Which can happen, I hate certain characters because how annoying their personalities or the voices can be.
the problem is, modern games are just focused in competitive gaming. not for the general public. that's the reason i don't waste time in new games
V ism is basically:
"wouldn't it be sick if you could infinite off genei jin?"
"That does sound sick, let's give it to every character"
HD combos in KOF XIII was the best mechanic in fighting games ever! Omg so fun... and Ash's HD to Sans-Culotte and vice versa combos were nuts
A-Groove is SF Zero V-ism/CC's in CvS2. N-Groove is basically Advanced Gauge from KOF
I'm surprised you didn't talk about soul calibur 6's rock paper scissors called reversal edge
Expected that to be #1. SFVI is now using it without the r,p,s part.
not that bad
I want the Mega Crash burst back. For real it added a level of depth to that game and made it so you weren't just passively watching your character get smacked. Had to decide to spend, or not. It's like the combo breaker in KI, and the counter breaker in that. Made EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION a thinking game. You could NEVER be passive.
My favorite mechanic of Darkstalkers is a modern incarnation of the game existing. Alas we'll probably never see it again.
im extremely surprised you didnt mention the hilariousness that is danger time
The bound system from Tekken 6 and TAG 2 I don't think will make a comeback because it fueled so many character like Lars and Bryan who benefited from it so much
KOF Max mode was born broken in KOF 02 and continued being broken in 13. SNK made it broken on purpose following the MvC philosophy of making broken a positive quality. And even with the watered down and "fairer" versions made for 14 and 15, they still mess up the games.
Max mode is just SNK's version of Capcom's custom combos, where it isn't any less broken than in SFA. In the beginning I was a fan of the mechanic since 02 but looking back on it, i question if it really did good to the series. Maybe that's my bias as an old fan from before 02, but I wish the series didn't turn so fixated into exaggerated combo mechanics. It was a good idea of Capcom abandoning custom combos. They came up with better ideas of combo extension mechanics like FADC and V-Trigger cancel
Vism did come back in its entirety though, in the SF EX series. You spent one super combo stock to essentially enter vism.
Not tryna be that guy, but aren’t ISMs from Alpha 3 basically grooves from CVS2? So they did kinda have the same concept of changing your fighting style based on what you chose
Not tryna be that guy, but people follow logic orders. A3 came first. Grooves are updated Isms. Also all Grooves are just ideas taken from old games anyways. And Custom combos were created by SF so it's ok to reference it the way he did.
Also not tryna be that guy, but Isms aren't even an original idea of Capcom. It was a blatant ripoff of SNK's KOF 97, where it works the same but with two options. That idea was also added to SNK's Last Blade 1, before SFA3. So it's also right to say: Isms like in KOF 97. Whatever.
13:30 In XV Max mode actually _is_ often used for custom combos like XIII's, obviously they aren't as crazy but these 2 traits are very important:
-In XV at least, EX moves are excellent combo filler, lots of moves combo into them and they often lead into each other (or normal special moves) pretty well.
-Max mode allows you to perform EX moves for free, _in addition_ to supers costing reduced or no bar.
So Max mode combos do tend to be longer, more freeform ones still. Heck, I saw an Ash combo just like the XIII one you showed but in XV, performed using Max mode and his install super.
It's less potent than XIII's though, since Max mode eats up 2 meter (while XIII's uses its own separate bar).
Also, I do wish YRC would come back...I feel like other RCs using half of meter makes me not want to use them. That's the same amount as a super, and I'd rather not spend half my meter on something as minor as safer neutral plays when I could just save it to do big damage with a super for the same amount of meter.
I played a game called Fighter's Destiny on N64, it has that crazy "dodge button" mechanic that makes me love the game ❤️
KOF 13 is the reason I wish fighting games had never gone 3D and stuck with using sprites.
shocked you didn't go with Danger Time tbh
V-ism is the sole reason why I prefer SFA2 over SFA3.
Can’t relate but I can see why
X-factor was/is insane lol I hope it gets a mention
the baroque system is TvC sounds very similar to dnf duel's conversion. You can spend your recoverable health to cancel anything and it even gives you meter
Love your vids bro. Always informative and fun
YRC was also known as YRCa. People started to sing Y-R-C-A, It's fun to stay at the Y-R-C-A, and that was really broke.
Even super meter wasn't used in 3D games with very few exceptions BTW, Tekken only had it for a few guest characters (like Akuma) in 7 and got universal bar in 8, DoA only got it in 6. But 5 had finishers only used from extra stun states with unique inputs.
I was curious to see if Kakuto Chojin: Back Alley Brutal would be on the list. I didn't get my hopes super high, but it does have two neat mechanics to it:
1:. Proper fight music does not start playing until a character succesfully hits the other fighter. The first one to land a succesful hit has that character's theme music playing for the rest of the round.
2: The health meter doubles as the super meter. Health drops down from the edge to the middle of the screen alongside a horizontal bar, but the super meter builds up *from* the middle towards the edge.
The less health a character has, the quicker the super meter builds up.
Nowadays Kakuto Chojin is mainly known for an incident regarding the theme song of the character Asad, but i think these two things are still pretty cool and worth remembering.
I wouldn't mind it getting a second chance someday and *really* become something of its own. Better story, for one. And more to the characters.
Never heard of this game before your comment. I'd like to play it, though that looks to be quite impossible nowadays without emulation. I like to try out old fighters that I never knew about before
I wanted the strategy guide because cool looks and multiple languages in one book
XD
Those features are really interesting!
@@cirro51 Glad to be able to provide, and that there's people interested in it.
If you can find a way to play it sometime, i hope it will be an interesting venture! But if not, i recommend a YT channel by a user named Silver Haired Devil. He's probably dove the deepest into the mechanics of KC and each character out of anyone on and outside of the platform, and he has various videos showcasing character movesets.
This one's from the fighter named Asad (whose theme causes such a commotion)
ua-cam.com/video/lQ3fTPIL6ss/v-deo.html
You can probably find him on various other videos on the platform about KC giving explanations, or you could simply leave a comment to ask him about... whatever you'd like to know about the game.
I forgot to mention that the game's got two moveset modes for every single character: Kakuto moveset and Chojin moveset. If i remember correctly, the Kakuto moveset is quite basic, whereas the Chojin moveset is unlocked for a character after beating the game with them and meant for more advanced players.
And if you're ever interested in a PS2 3D adventure-type game with an art style like Rayman and combat system like Tekken, you might find some interest in Kya: Dark Lineage.
For a platformer-like game, it goes *very* in-depth with combat options for the main character.
@@Ramsey276one Man, that strategy guide must be *super* rare nowadays. I didn't knwo it came in multiple languages.
And heck yeah. Kakuto Chojin might not be the very best game around, but there's a few things going for it, and I think it deserves to be remembered.
@@jurtheorc8117 sorry, I meant the movelists are in the character language for non-English speaking characters, but I think it would be costly to get one now…
SFA3's ISM system was good on paper, but it was also not good in practice, because it was always best for the vast majority of the roster to always go for V-ISM, and a few went with A-ISM, and no one went with X-ISM, leaving one of the 3 options the game gave completely worthless.
Also a fun fact, the ISM system was the inspiration for the Variation system for Mortal Kombat X and Mortal Kombat 11, and both games clearly made a much better job with that system then SFA3, because while not every single Variation in MKX or Kustom move in MK11 is viable, at least it's only going by character and there are characters that have all 3 Variations in MKX and either all or majority of their moves in MK11 are viable, unlike in SFA3 which forces the vast majority of it's roster to go with only one option, a few with only 2 options, and none with 3 options.
with KOFXIII finally getting rollback i've been getting back into it and honestly getting HD loops is one of the best feelings i've had in a fighting game recently. it's hard--some of the characters i play will punish you kinda severely for misinputting by giving you super instead of a canceled DP into a QCF--but it's so cool and again, the game's got rollback on PS4/5, no better time to try it out than now afaic
Another game did have burst on normal meter that caused problems: combo breakers in MK vs DC. It's also in MK9 and MKX, but in those games there are not ways to combo off combo breakers (... that I'm aware of)