Ikaruga - What do some people have against it?
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2020
- A look at Ikaruga, a shmup that, depending who you ask, is either the greatest shmup of all time or an overrated game barely even worthy of being called a shmup.
As a big fan of the game, I can still see why the game annoys some people and this video is a brief attampt to explain a couple of potential reasons for that negativity. - Ігри
What annoys me about Ikaruga is how it's so gorgeous and has an intriguing premise, but its scoring requires a style of play that involves more dedication than I care to to give any game from the start. No, seriously! It's unfair that a game this niche is so gorgeous!
I don't like scoring systems that scale cumulatively AND are so easy to mess up. It makes anything less than perfect feel like an utter failure and any pursuit of mastery below perfect feel like a waste.
And for survival play, there are obstacles I can't consistently react to even when I know they're coming. Switching up scroll speed in a game throws a big wrench in my brain.
This! I know quite a few games with focus on scoring mechanics that put parts into the levels that 100% force a chain to be interrupted and that is good. If you do a small mistake or deliberately choose not to score in a section because it is too risky, you only lose a score increase for a small part of the level and not mess up the whole run. Very important to keep the motivation going.
It's a shitty game, way too fussy.
Gimme Ketsui everyday of the week.
This is why I don't enjoy most score attacking games. The Gunvolt series is really bad for this same reason. It expects pure perfection from you if you want to get S+ ranks.
This game is also just ridiculously hard. I thought it would be a shmup upon buying it a few years back, but it's actually a bullet hell. A really confusing one at that.
As a massive Treasure fan, I absolutely adore this game. It shows off their amazing skill at innovative design and ability at putting up a genre classic no matter what they make. Between This and RSG, Alien Soldier and GunstarHeroes, Sin and Punishment 1&2. I cannot fathom how they could ever have been so consistent at making some of the best games ever made while staying so varied in design.
I love Ikaruga for so strongly defining its gameplay and taking it to the limit of what is possible with its unique concepts. However I don't think its my favorite Shmup. I really see it as more of a Treasure game first and Shmup second. If I want to put a few hours into a Shmup I will most likely put on Rolling Gunner or Dragon Blaze or one of so many amazing games. But if I ever want to play something like Ikaruga, then my only choice is Ikaruga.
Play Enceladus and Pawarumi. Thank me later. You'll love both of them. I also agree with the "Treasure game first, Shmup second" point you make.
That's a really great line: It's "a Treasure game first and Shmup second." Very nicely put.
@@dr_ubo pawarumi's performance on the switch leaves a lot to be desired.
Well said! If I want to shmup I'm quicker to pop on Darius Gaiden or Crimzon Clover. I only go to Ikaruga if I want to play Ikaruga.
Radiant Silvergun is one from Treasure I wish they would add this was suppose to be the successor to it.
While there are reasons to like or dislike the game, there is no doubt that it is a very beautiful game.
Absolutely. I think that aspect is one thing I've never seen anyone criticise. Looking for images to use as a thumbnail was an absolute treat - so many beautiful ones to choose from.
6:35 I just watched gameplay of Crimson Clover. They aren't really comparable, especially to the average gamer. Ikaruga is slower paced, easier to follow and still visually stunning while Crimson Clover looks like a pachinko machine with the entire screen filling up with stars and medals.
I think a lot of the love for the game comes from how intimidating Danmaku look and how inviting the IDEA of Ikaruga seems. It's easy for non-shmup players to look at and think "I could never play Mushi but I could try this..."
Yes. Everyone "gets" the polarity and the scoring systems after seeing a single screen shot snd a one sentence explanation or 5 seconds of footage. Even if they have no interest in the scoring or really even playing the game, people at least understand what the game is, which makes it far less intimidating. It really is a master class in how to make your game more "intuitive" at a glance.
The best way to summarize the first major point might hit it more accurately: Ikaruga can only be played the way Ikaruga wants to be played - which is with dedication and memorization and studying patterns and solving puzzles. You really cannot approach Ikaruga "casually", and that's a huge deal. Even many of the other most difficult shmups out there, like many CAVE games, can be entered and enjoyed and feel 'good' just running your face into it even if you lose.
Hardcore shmup fans that will talk about why it's excellent are correct, but there are reasons that the shmup genre is such a small niche these days, and it's because when many of your 'best games' are either physically inaccessible to try to get into, or design-wise are unwelcoming to newcomers, people just don't reach that point of becoming fans.
Yup, and that's the reason Touhou, no matter what people think of it, becomes many people's first shmup (me included). I went basically straight from Genesis -> PC and so it happened that the most available shmup (no emulation, no purchasing platforms, free) was Touhou, in my case it was Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism when it came out. The appeal is easy to understand: it is free*, has a decent easy mode in every installment that actually allows people to get into the genre, has a very balanced difficulty curve getting a bit harder from stage to stage without overwhelming the player right from the get-go but being moderately challenging still, it has AMAZING OST (and that's a fact that most people notice as soon as they start playing the game and what makes people follow the community later even when they quit playing the game), the ememy/boss patterns (for the most part) look beautiful and (most importantly) make sense, and the stages do not drag.
I mean, throughout my relatively small shmup experience, I'd say Touhou is a game where you know what to expect. It's consistently decent and sometimes that's all people need. The only games I think I'd put close to Touhou in terms of being beginner-friendly are Dangerous Seed (Sega Genesis) and Super Aleste (SNES). Gosh, I love these two, both are relatively easy and have a fantastic OST. I mean, ZUN just proves time and time again all you have to do sometimes is to have an 'acceptable' game and amazing OST so that people could chill and bop to it.
I've only played a little of the game here and there and was never all that impressed, but what's telling is that I've never even HEARD about the three kill chaining mechanic until this video. And I've really been into shmups for a while now. lol
Beautifully explained!
I fell in love with Ikaruga on the Game Cube despite never getting into the chain system. Like R-Type 1 & 2, Ikaruga’s visual design aesthetic conveys sophistication like few games do.
I think that element sells the “Classic” moniker well. Metal Gear Solid does this. So do Ico & Shadow of the Colossus. NieR: Automata recently did that as well. It’s video-gaming as a sort of artsy “Lifestyle” brand.
Ok, as a great fan of the game and playing it for score from a (relatively) long time, I'll give you my two cents.
First and foremost, kudos to you for actually knowing the game to some degree. Seeing YTubers praising the game and reviewing it without even taking the time to chain the very first round enemies of Ch1 is annoying to every single Ikaruga player, let alone his detractors.
The "Ikaruga is overrated" problem feels to me like the classic two-edged sword.
On the one hand, people seeking to approach the genre for the first time will have the Ikaruga name popping up at the first Google search and, having it available on every current gen system, there is a strong possibility that they will approach the genre starting from Treasure's masterpiece. And this is, in my opinion, the only way in wich Ikaruga can be considered really overrated: Ikaruga is a BAD entry point shmup. And I am not talking just about the polarity system and its counterintuitive "eat the bullets, don't avoid them" mechanic: the other factor is that Ikaruga IS his scoring system, and more than many other shmups there is a delta between non-scoring and scoring gameplay. Take one of the great CAVE classics or Crimzon Clover for example, they are super fun even at the most basic survival level, and good luck getting the 1-all. Ikaruga played for survival, while challenging, is a very different game experience than scoring, with the change between the two being really evident even to the untrained eye. About the puzzle element of Ikaruga, please keep in mind that this can be said of other great shmups played for score as well but they usually do not get criticized for this, and rightly so.
On the other hand, that's it, this is Ikaruga only real potential Achilles' heel. Once you start going deep into the proverbial rabbit's hole of his score system, the game became simply fantastic. The game design is so tight and brilliant it is crazy, what at at first look is a bit slow shmup became fast and furious, as you will search for those extra frames to gain for spawning those tricky extra bonus enemies, the difficulty starts to ramp up gracefully and gradually the more you try to chain, etc. In my opinion, liking or disliking a game, every game, is a matter of personal tastes, but Ikaruga is one of the genre highest point period.
So, why double edged sword? Because, as you correctly stated, the pletora of good reviews by people who basically never play the genre actually turn off the players to wich Ikaruga is more catered to, shmup players. With time it generated an "Ikaruga complex" for wich many do not play Ikaruga just by spite for its fame as genre darling/overrated game, and in the modern shmup community very few people still play Ikaruga. Wich, also considering how in the past it got his fair share of western community (ika.co.uk was big in the scene back in the days), feels quite unfortunate.
It's definitely a double-edged sword, you're right.
And I think the situation you've described (nicely named the "Ikaruga Complex") where someone might not play out of spite, if that happens, that's a really big shame.
Ideally, we'd all play games with no preconceptions, but that, of course, is impossible.
I would argue that regardless of playing for score the polarity mechanic is fun and is what makes those inexperienced players really enjoy the game.
It’s a unique mechanic that isn’t hidden behind deep understanding of the genre/game like many mechanics in shmups and this is what attracts a casual player. It’s a surface level thing and you don’t see that in a lot of shmups.
Also, as you said, compared to Dodonpachi or something the first couple stages are pretty easy when not playing for score and that’s actually a major positive for someone not experienced with shmups. But what’s great is they can be challenging playing for score so everyone wins! We don’t have to be bored!
Add the aesthetics and the excellent score that really enhances the grandeur of many moments and it makes PERFECT sense why this is the favorite of many more casual shmup fans. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Especially since there is depth there for a player to explore if they decide to get less casual about the game.
Not my personal favorite but ask 14 year me what the best shmup was when I had my gamecube and you bet it was Ikaruga. And guess what? I had no idea how the scoring worked. People need to try to see it from the perspective of someone not into the genre.
It’s just like music, people want others to understand the complexity of what they are into so they shun something everyone likes even if it’s adjacent. Radiohead used to be my favorite band when I was 14, they were bringing experimental music to a mainstream audience. Now I’m more into the music they were referencing/inspired by (along with other things entirely) but hey it’s perfectly fine to stop at Radiohead. There’s plenty there to pick apart and digest.
Sure, there are people who say Ikaruga is good just because it is popular. But then saying that it's bad because it's "too popular" is really just the same fallacy. Either way you are speaking purely to the game's popularity.
Dunking on a popular entry in the genre just alienates outsiders and doesn't do the genre any favors.
It's not Ikaruga's fault that other good Shmups get overlooked. It's not like there is a hard limit of the amount of attention Shumps may get. If Ikaruga was out of the picture media outlets wouldn't necessarily invest any more effort into the other Shmups.
Even if one doesn't like Ikaruga, a healthy way to talk about it is to leverage its popularity to introduce outsiders to other, overlooked games of the genre.
To be fair, though, I've never seen anyone say it's *bad* "because it's popular". Only that its popularity can be annoying.
Also, there was a very good comment earlier where someone pointed out that Ikaruga's popularity may actually be something that alienates outsiders itself since it's a common first shmup to pick up due to the name, but it's not actually a good first shmup to play due to the intense difficulty.
@Shmups On Switch Yeah but the popularity *IS* the problem for its critics. If it wasn't popular there would be no discussion, right?
As for it being difficult - Shmups are kinda all quite difficult. And Ikaruga wears the difficulty on its sleeve. It's the Dark Souls before there was Dark Souls. Due to its popularity Ikaruga at least has a lot of resources new players can draw upon to learn the ropes. Quite a few good guides here on UA-cam.
Not using chaining to me is as valid to me as using it. Any other Cave shmup also usually has 2 first easy stages yet no one says those stages are trash, because they are not. Ikaruga's first two stages teach you the mechanics very well and are very fun. I don't think you have to chain to be able to appreciate that.
Lol I joke around with my friends by saying I play Ikaruga to torture myself. And its kinda true when I try playing the game for score.
I just can't really enjoy finding ways to chain enemy patterns when all I want to do is go pew pew.
To me, I enjoy trying to survive Ikaruga. Learning bullet patterns and when to switch polarities.
It's easy to see Ikaruga as amazing even without the chaining focus, remmeber, for alot of people, they have never seen this polatrity system before. it really adds added a truly new mechanic and strategy besides the old tried and true dshot, and dodge. For me, i do love it, without worrying about chains yet, i kind of wanted to be able to just bea tthe game first before caring about the chain system. And I stil suck at it not to ge that far yet ^^
I agree about the way the press treated the game. Made me kind of resent it when every other shmup review would crap on the game and say it isn't innovative like ikaruga. It's not that ikaruga is bad but there's so many other good shmups.
I love it but is more like a puzzle game with a ton of memorization and sometimes i just want blow up things in a shmup.
Yeah, this is why I don’t like Irakuga from a game mechanic aspect, colour puzzle shmup a good game doesn’t make... A++ for aesthetics and audio though and I’ll give them a pass for RS as at least you can play that one as more of a boss battle shmup.
I think a lot of people fall into the trap of "it's popular so it sucks." They get tired of people ignorant of their favorite genre constantly calling Ikaruga the best shmup ever or worse, the only shmup that's worthwhile. That shouldn't hurt the game itself though. It's popular for a reason, it's a master class in game design whether one likes it or not.
But yeah, Crimzon Clover: World EXplosion deserves just as much fame. The brilliance of Ikaruga is it had that polarity gimmick to draw in people who normally wouldn't play a shmup while Crimzon Clover looks like your usual inaccessible bullet hell with tons of stuff going on at once and it scares people off, even though Crimzon Clover is one of the most accessible bullet hell games out there and the perfect gateway drug if you can actually get someone to play it.
I feel what elevates Ikaruga above other shmups for casual players is the ability to engage or disengage with game mechanics in order to make the game exactly as hard as it needs to be for you. Not to say there are NO other shmups like that, it is just the most well known one and the rest is snowball effect. Ikaruga is more welcoming than any other shmup I played. Not to say it is easier, it just allows noobs in more readily and gives them reason to enjoy it.
To say that reviewers cannot praise the game if they decide not to engage with chaining is missing the point. Most of them are praising it because they can skip that part until they feel more prepared for it (even if not all of them understand the reason).
Someone said that Ikaruga is a bad starting point for shmups. I would say, it is an awesome one. Yes, it does not play like other shmups do, yes, it might be handholdy at times but I be damned if it is not great at teaching you to asses your current level of play and teaching you to set goals which is vital when playing shmups for survival (and I suspect for scoring, I cannot tell about that since I never chase scores).
Ikaruga is actually a challenger of the old school shmups focusing on survival/power up/item systems and the bullet hell shmups focusing on dodging and scoring. If the player kept pressing their fire button all the time like what they do in other 99% shmups, they will be punished by either breaking the chain or just hit by the return bullet due to killing an enemy ship blindly. This means that Ikaruga is an very unique game that the shmup player’s experience are not very transferable in this game and may make feels even worse. To be good at Ikaruga, you have to learn a lot and keep practicing with dedication. So a CAVE fan probably won’t appeal Ikaruga as much as Crimson Clover due to this reason. Ikaruga gets so famous because it is beautiful art style, gorgeous music, unique futuristic Japanese/Chinese/Indian ish world design, a unique scoring system carried over from radiant silver gun and of course made by Treasure imho. Therefore, the biggest controversy could come from the truth that Ikaruga is widely regarded as the representative of shmups by game media who are generally terrible at it and some cult players who are good at it, but disliked/annoyed by the shmup players frustratesd. In a nutshell, Ikaruga is an anti-genre shmup which is not designed for representing the genre, but it is defined as the “king” of shmup since the media don’t care.
only 500 views? this video is amazing! I really love your opinion. Cant wait to get more high quality contents like this man
Thanks! I only uploaded it yesterday, though, so it's doing okay. Numbers aren't too important anyway, this is just a passion project for me and, honestly, it's far more rewarding to me to see a comment like yours than extra zeroes on the view counter. Cheers!
Purists don't like it because it's popular and is always mentioned usually as the best shmup ever made.
hi. Great channel. I have dabbled in shmups over the years but they just haven't stuck. Can you recommend a decent beginner shmup?
I'd say Ghost Blade HD is a good beginner shmup. It looks like it would be really intense, but actually it's far more generous than most so you can enjoy it without feeling like it's too simple. Should be a review somewhere on my channel.
The polarity system is awesome but the chaining system is a giant pain in the ass.
I heard about this game a lot and about how good it is (apparently one of the best shmups), but the colour change mechanic put me off wanting to play it. Now you've mentioned the 3 chain mechanic and it's put me off even more lol. It's a game I'll never get no matter how hyped it is.
I like the "Euroshmup" type games where you can take multiple hits without dying while busy blasting away all the enemies
I think in Japan they prefer games to be really hard, which is why they make loads of the one hit death games that have millions of bullets to dodge on the screen. This ikaruga game seems to be like that but with the addition of the color/puzzle aspect to make it even more frustrating so it's a big no from me as well
I want to like it but it makes my head hurt. On the other hand, Crimzon Clover immediately became my favorite shmup when it came out on Switch.
I love Ikaruga. I've always respected what it's going for in terms of game design and it's one of my top 5 favourite shmups, but I agree with just about everything you said here. Ikaruga is also very much an acquired taste kind of game and it won't appeal to everyone. Hell, I didn't like it at first. It took me quite a lot of getting out of my comfort zone to appreciate the gameplay of Ikaruga and the game didn't really click with me until I started learning how to chain through the first stage. It would indeed be nice if a lot of non-shmup players who know about Ikaruga would check out other established classics of the genre.
That’s a tough one. I think it’s an important game, fun to play and learn, but it just doesn’t touch me. I think it’s simply lacking the personality of games Gunlock, Darius Gaiden, Gradius v or crimzon clover, just to mention my favorite shmups that I can play over and over again. It’s a bit like a blank game to me. Like chess, it’s satisfying to learn but it does not aesthetically please me.
I have binge watched a lot of your videos, they are great, thanks for the content.
For me Ikaruga is a 10 out of 10 game, it has provided me with 100s of hours of entertainment over the years and deserves the praise it gets. But it is completely different from other shmups, it is like a genre of its own. If somebody asked me to recommend a shmup on switch, I probably wouldn't recommend Ikaruga , it is incredibly challenging, has a bit of a learning curve and requires an absolutely huge investment of time to get any good at it. There are games that are just more accessible and fun like ESP Ra.De and Clover
Also the soundtrack is absolutely incredible, one of the greats. I've sometimes wondered whether I would rate Ikaruga so highly if it had a worse soundtrack.
I really liked this video and yeah you covered a lot of things about Ikaruga. Shmup enthusiasts sometimes dislike it for its puzzle-y nature, NON-shmuppers don't progress too much in the game or don't get/feel the appeal of the game. It is a game designed for a certain type of person... However, the art, music and story in the game is absurdly over the top and artistically amazing. Everything you said about game journalism around Ikaruga is spot on imho. Try Enceladus and Pawarumi! I really want you to cover Pawarumi in particular.
-STGshmups
Yeah, maybe I should have touched on the art and design a bit more. For all you do see people complain about Ikaruga, one thing I don't think I've ever seen questiioned is the beauty of some of the artwork. Like, seriously, I'd hang that shit on my walls!
i mean personally i've tried it repeatedly because people hype it so much but it's just never stuck. it seems good i just don't get it.
I both love and hate Ikaruga. It’s one of the best stage designs ever crafted! Very tight! BUT, it’s also for a greatly designed game, very brutal to 1cc. It asks very different set of skills for survival and the game takes no prisoners. For those who can 1cc it, you guys are the gods of shmupping.
Frustratingly the training options on the ports are just the bare minimum. You can only train the start of the stage, but for the bosses you have to wait very long until you reach them. It’s a painful game to practice. The startup is painstakingly long too. Not for technical reasons, but for aesthetic reasons. What were they thinking?
"The first levels are too easy"
Isn't that the whole point of first levels?
Very interesting, you put words on things i feel
I’ve always thought Ikaruga looked very cool. I enjoy watching gameplay about it and listening to people discuss it. But I just can’t get into it myself. There’s just something about the game that breaks my brain. I have a very hard time wrapping my head around what’s going on and what’s expected of me. I know that is kind of the point and perhaps I would get more enjoyment out of it if I really sat down and tried to learn it, but the game is just too unintuitive to me to be fun. Love the presentation and music though, I wish I liked playing it!
Feel like point two is a bit unfair. It almost sounds like you're allowed to like it, but the gaming press is somehow being disingenuous for having a similar view. I like Ikaruga, but agree that it's a bit overrated. It is, however, one of those games that has legendary status, so I get why websites would cover it over something like Crimson Clover. I remember what a struggle it was getting it for the Gamecube when it came out (I didn't have a computer with internet at the time, and local shops didn't have stock), so the fact that it's so easy to buy now is pretty amazing, even if it is a little overrated. Anyway, keep up the good work. Fingers crossed we get some more great shmups in 2021!
I get what you mean, but it's not so much that a particular individual is not allowed to like it, more that it's odd how much of the gaming press apparently love Ikaruga but then never talk about or display any overt interest in shmups outside of that.
Any one journalist may very well be speaking the honest truth when they gush over this game, but what seems unlikely is that they all are - otherwise IGN etc would feature more coverage of shmups. (Nintendo Life, for example, does have a very genuine shmup fan at the helm and consequently that site gives the genre a lot of coverage.) The problem, of course, is that there's no way of knowing who's talking from a real, heartfelt position and who's bandwaggoning - the only person who truly knows that will be the individual themselves.
Honestly, I think my personal reason for not liking Ikaruga all that much is just that I could never wrap my head around it, no matter how much I try. The polarity switching just stays eternally confusing to my monkey brain. Definitely an objectively quite well made game though.
Also, yeah, the gaming press and this typical example of UA-cam/Twitch pandering are a friggin' joke. You ultimately need personal integrity to state a dissenting opinion on something when the public has already made up its mind about the topic at hand. Which runs counter to what those sorts of platform are ultimately about - promotion. Either of yourself, a product, or what have you. So I can't say I would ever expect this sort of thing from them anymore, I've been let down in that regard far too many times to hope for such an approach anymore.
As for people on forums and the like... I feel like that's an incredibly complex problem in and of itself, with the psychology of group thinking, online anonymity, the desire to present yourself as in the right and in the know, as well as many other factors playing a part. People should feel encouraged to go against the mold and stick to their own opinions, rather than feeling like being part of the winning team is more important. Anyway, sorry this turned so rambly, had a rough day...
No problem, a lot of good points. I've seen this comment a few times where people say 'overrated isn't a thing' because they think overrated just means you disagree with people who say X is good. But that's not the case. It's more what you've described where there's a prevailing opinion that it seems hard or controversial to dissent from and that then sweeps people along and leads to something becoming unthinkingly highly rated. It might still be very good - but some games have reputations it's basically impossible for any real life piece of software to live up to.
Hope your day wasn't *too* rough, by the way!
I find the polarity switching, constantly adjusting between what you're supposed to be avoiding and what you're supposed to be absorbing, to be quite mentally tiring. Always readjusting what you're looking at is a mildly taxing mental chore, like if the controls kept reversing direction. It's very clever, and a more elegant chaining system than Radiant Silvergun I guess, but that constant shift in perception messes with my flow and makes the game harder to enjoy for me.
My local gaming group and I were super hyped about Ikaruga coming out for Gamecube not because it was great looking or the first shmup to get mainstream recognition, oh no. We were hyped about it because it was the first and only time, at the time, where Treasure broke their seeming policy of having no sequels.
But yeah, if I had a choice of getting Project RS-3 or Sin and Punishment 3, I wouldn't even hesitate - Sin & Punishment 3 is what I would want.
funny enough I got ikuraga because of that video as well as others too but I wanted to get 2 shoot em ups I got it and Dan 3. I plan on getting crimson clover next haha
i just play ikaruga because i like looking at the ships
Wow I love this video, ngl Ikaruga isn't a shmup I loved but it's still very solid. Imo I think Ikaruga got such good faith/praise is because it was once a highly rare game on a system that sold very little (GC) take this idea & multiply it through decades + the internet & u get this phenomenon. Treasure is easily one of the best devs ever but I sure hope their other games (which are mostly better than Ikaruga imo) get some love as well.
I like it, but always die around te same part of the level. The difficulty ramps supper fast
If that’s you playing on screen I’m roughly your skill level. Ikaruga is my favorite shmup because of the chaining mechanic, but it is also the most beautiful game from a sheer visual perspective that I’ve ever seen. It is like playing an animated kaleidoscope. As far as RGT’s playthrough, while I do find the lack of knowledge about chaining annoying, the fact that the first half of the game is so easy without chaining is part of the brilliance of Ikaruga. It satisfies score-chasers as well as entry-level players. It is not boring at all trying to survive level two as a novice, the polarity mechanic without the chaining still requires a lot of concentration, while being manageable. So RGT’s playthrough actually exemplifies at least part of what makes Ikaruga great. (But you haven’t seen real gameplay until you watch a high-scoring run on normal or hard, or those two player simultaneous wizard runs.)
I used to love this game. Bought it for Dreamcast and Gamecube when it came out, but played it again recently, and everything after the first level is too hard. I'm more into horizontal-scrolling shooters now.
I pre ordered this game physically for switch almost a year ago. I knew it would be a decent collectors item and plus I wanted to know what what all the fuss was about. After playing it I couldn't understand the hype at all. I now look back and I knew why I didnt like it, I was just bad at the game.
I still am pretty terrible at the game, but after looking at super plays and 1cc runs of this, I got to appreciate the game's mechanics and strategies. Newer players may not understand, but just like what the game says, "we will understand each other someday." That quote finally got to me recently. If you put in the work/effort and figure out the games' tricks, it's a work of art.
I suck at chaining but I played this game for 6 months straight on the GameCube. I played a run every day almost. My goal was just getting good at surviving it. 1 cc. I liked the whole game a lot. So I can say it was a classic even if I never chained. I think it’s strong even without delving into chaining. It’s even cooler watching people play while chaining and knowing I probably will never be that good. It just elevates it even more knowing there’s such a high skill ceiling
I had fun with it, but after puzzling out the combos and whatnot, and having no desire to optimize score, I was done with it. A fun game, yes. The greatest shmup ever made, absolutely not.
God damn the soundtrack is amazing though.
I think hating on the game because of it's overexposition is kinda unfair to the game itself, just like I felt people hating on Undertale because of it's fanbase was unfair to that game, as the game was not at fault of that sort of thing... But then again I'm not in a position to criticise this sort of thing as it's exactly what happened to me as well when Overwatch came around and every friggin' game podcast episode had to spend at least one hour talking about it. So yeah... Unfair, but releatable and understandable. :P
I'd agree. If someone's hating *the game* because of that, yeah, that's maybe being a bit silly because, as you say, that's not the game's fault. But you can - as I do - love the game, but still find the coverage of it a bit annoying.
@@ShmupsOnSwitch Absolutely. It's just that too many times you see the annoyance towards overexposition translate into hate for the game IMO. Sometimes it can even precondition you to not liking a game beforehand, so when you finally try it you're prone to nitpick and obsess over it's faults (this has happened to me before). Other people might just stubbornly refuse to play it out of sheer annoyance. It's a very human thing to do, unfortunately.
@@ShmupsOnSwitch By the way, I just found out about your channel because I'm currently undergoing a retro game rush period, which had me go through some compilations, which invariably brought me to the Shmup compilations of Psikyo and such. Cool content you have got here.
One question though, and sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but you sometimes mention "Euro Shmups". I had never heard that term before. What is that about?
@@Hilipinapixili It's a bit hard to explain. The name comes from the fact these games are often made by European developers, but it can be used for any shmup with a certain feeling and I guess it's usually used in a derogatory sense.
I don't think there's any written in stone definition but I'll give it a go: Euroshmups are almost always horis, often have a slow drifty feeling and a kind of inertia to the player ship movement, have a health bar instead of a life system, use lots of overly flourescent lazery colours and light effects, include stretches with no enemies where you just kind of drift about, employ rpg style mechanics or upgrades that mean you can't proceed without purchasing new weapons or shields or whatever, lack interesting enemy patterns and instead just have enemies popping in seemingly at random and often suffer from issues with poor visibility.
There's more to it than that and not every euroshmup has all those characteristics (and, conversely, nor does having one or two of those characteristics make a game a euroshmup). Also, some people do like them. There's nothing explitly wrong with them, I'm just not much of a fan.
@@ShmupsOnSwitch I played Tyrian 2000 last year. Sounds kinda like the kind of game you're describing.
I did like it, but yeah, didn't find it as engaging as others.
Personally, the ones I tend to not necessarily dislike but feel kinda iffy about are those that have ship speed as a powerup, and when you die you lose everything and your ship slows down to a crawl, making it almost impossible to survive, at which point you are pretty much screwed. I think R-Type did this. Gradius might have done it as well.
I was expecting Ikaruga as a bullet hell style game after I finished the first stage, not a heavy memorization style like r-type
I believe part of the glowing reviews is because the first couple of stages are so easy if playing for survival. Like the other youtuber playing without chains and enjoying himself incidentally pointed out. Where you correctly point out that they are mundane if not chaining that great for someone new to the genre.
The Switch is definitely a great systems for playing Shmups....not sure if you have done a video about this yet...but I would like to know what are the best Shmups for the Switch that have an actual physical release....most of the Shmups on the Switch are digital releases. Keep up the good work!!
I haven't done a video on it, but you can follow my Twitter to see information about that sort of thing pretty often.
Quite a few good ones do have physical releases - ESP Ra.De., Ikaruga, Danmaku Unlimited 3, Black Bird and 3 Psikyo Collections. Rolling Gunner was supposed to have one but that got cancelled, unfortunately. Would be good to see that and Crimzon Clover especially get picked up by someone.
You've explained why metacritic is kind of useless for shmups in general. You, electric underground, shmup junkie, mudprints and a few others really fill that void. Thanks!
It's nearly impossible to get a physical version on the Switch unfortunately. I'm so upset, I love the game, have it on GameCube!
To me, i have it on Xbox Live Arcade.
Here's another take. Maybe the ease of the game without the chaining mechanic is what makes it good to those less-experienced players, because they've never experienced the fun of a shmup, because they've never been good at them.
Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying your channel.
Bit disappointed with your accent, though; if you're from Glasgow I expect the Kevin Bridges of shmups (I'm kidding. There's nothing wrong with your accent).
Hahaha! I do love Kevin Bridges, but I'm not from the city itself so I don't have the accent (something my Canadian girlfriend is eternally grateful for lol). If you want shmup content with a stronger Scottish accent, you can check out this guy: ua-cam.com/video/eOw79-wBd4U/v-deo.html
Good content, by the way, and he can be pretty funny too.
@@ShmupsOnSwitch Yeah that's a proper accent 😂
I'm one of the people who are desperately trying to 1cc the game in normal. The polarity and chain mechanic is neat since that's the once thing that balances the games brutal difficulty, it's the players fault if they mess up. Mastering the games polarity system is what makes the this shmup fun.
Still even with the polarity system, dodging bullets is quite a pain since you have to observe both polarities. I've pretty much died countless times by switching polarities at the wrong time. Still, I do agree that it's a great shmup but it requires some mastery if you want to find some enjoyment in Ikaruga.
I wish there was a sequel. Good review and LOVE the game.
The sequel of Ikaruga called UBUSUNA is under development since 2014 by same game director who jumped from treasure to M2. You can actually find an interview that shows the footage of the game. ua-cam.com/video/kzXSZTk-J8A/v-deo.html&t=1299
Glad i'm not the only one. Heard so much about this game but when I went to play it 😐
if you want ikaruga to be more bullet hellish and less match threeish is to go for dot eater, which was my favorite way to play it.
You're gonna hate me, but I find most shmups dull and really only rate them by eye candy. Most people probably think this way too, which is why people probably like it, along with it's unique tone & setting.
And like you said, it's easy. Really easy. Easy enough to not die once, at least at the start. I think most people would pat themselves on the back for surviving that long in a shmup.
That's not saying games like the Psikyo collection are too hard or ugly, but y'know.
Crimson clover is also great in my eyes. Not like I 1cc'd tho
Undertale had a similar effect that just turned me away from the game entirely. It was EVERYWHERE on my recommended, and the hype lasted so long that it starved other games of attention that came out around the same time.
Everybody starts out on UA-cam watching rgt85 or metaljesus until you realise? Erm no!
Although I do have a very big problem with Ikaruga being released over and over again because I feel because of this Radiant Silvergun which has only been released once for Xbox Live Arcade back in 2011 and hasn't been released again since then.
I've owned the game since the Gamecube release. My frame of reference for the game is absent of its modern reputation, since I haven't even played the game in over a decade. I loved it from the start. But I also never played it for the scoreboard. I think the reason people wanted the game to be longer is because the first two levels are not very hard. They're like the tutorial, which I think is more than fair given the novelty of the mechanic. Having more levels of high difficulty would easily offset the low difficulty of the beginning.
Its cruelty!!! Thats what it is! Having to switch like that! Its insane!
hmm... well, I like some other treasure games, but I never got radiant or ikaruga, as good as they are, but I assumed that was my hori bias. My issue with the ikaruga issue is the same with the bullet hell issue. Ikaruga/Bullet hell IS shmups for non-shmup players, and this taints how people view other styles of shmups. It's a hanger-on kind of situation where people think that because the game has deep mechanics at surface level then playing it at any level means you're different. If you play ikaruga you're just a big brain guy, meanwhile if you're playing r-type or darius you're just a memorizer, etc. It's not true, but people seem to think this way, so who knows.
I bought thi sgame back in 200 or so. And i have EVER YET gotten poast stage 3, even on easy! That stage 3 boss is FUCKED. I ove the game, but very frustrating geting stuck on Stage 3 forever.
You had a wide screen crt tv as a kid? Whoa
Haha. To be fair, when I say 'kid' I don't mean little kid, I mean like a teenager.
If you are not trying to chain at least the first couple of levels then you simply are not playing it properly.
"Freedom" western players tend to have a massive hang up on options/etc and react badly when something seems to overly constrict them.
The overratedness in part due to the Treasure brand; like the Gainax/Trigger of video games. Crimzon Clover had relative no-names developing (one man) and publishing (I need to check the switch publisher of CC, but Degica was always a smaller name that seemed to have given up STG localizations for the most part)
I think the same could be said of Cave, who more of less defined the genre to many, though they seem to have no interest in the switch.
I mean as a Touhou fan I can understand why some people might see Ikaruga as a very hard shoot'em up game but not in a good way because if you don't get game's system obviously you are going to have a very hard time although Touhou Is my favourite shoot'em up game it was Ikaruga that gave me a chance to try other Shoot'em up games like Touhou.
Ikaruga was also among a gvery FEW and SMALL amount of shmups released to home consoles during that era, especialy outside of Japan. The g Gamecube ort was especially exciting as IIRC there are only TWO shmups ont he cube released in the west :(( This and Chaos field, and chaos field II like alot too. It's better value ont he Wii Ultimate Shoting colectiogn which has Chaos field, Karous, and the third I forget, maybe a radirgy game? Or something
It's an amazing game.
Just too hard for me. Wish Radiant Silvergun had been released on everything.
Me too man.... me too.
My own preference is strongly weighted old school, rather than danmaku. I also feel a strong aversion to the main mechanic. Ikaruga's not for me. Rayforce very much is. Other folks enjoying Ikaruga has no effect on me, so I say go for it!
There is another big element that makes this game hard to get into (for me at least). It is so stage hazard focused!
Spot on pal
By stage 3 / 4 its simply too hard for me...just goes overboard on constant switching...Its good but Gradius V is a LOT better imho. Its not Einhander overrated though it is a v good game.
Apple and Oranges IMO, but Gradius V is definitely more widely appealing.
In my book, Ikaruga will always get to sit at the adult table with Cave and the other great shmups. It (and Radiant Silvergun) have done a lot of "brand and prestige building" for shmups.
The IGN game box quote: "Our frothing demand for this game increases," is not on Call Of Duty. It's not on Pokemon. It's not on Mario. It's on Ikaragua. It's on a shmup!
I love this game, my most played shmup on Switch. Even got 1CC on easy (started chaining to get extends for survivability and fell in love with the scoring mechanic), but lately I've tried it on normal and the suicide bullets melt my brain and mess with my previous knowledge too much. I think I prefer easy mode
The best part about chaining is that it's not strict (except for max rank and top leaderboards, obviously) so you can keep trying to get bigger chains at your own pace, preventing the first stages from becoming stale/boring
Oh, and RGT85 just delivers poor videos, period. I don't know how he has so many subs (watch his review of Crash N-Sane Trilogy, he "reviews" the game and doesn't even know nitros kill Crash...). 0 credibility
I don't know him, to be honest. I just watched that video because it was about Ikaruga. In general, though, I'm not such a fan of those almost daily news and rumour channels.
I tried playing the demo on Steam and I didnt like it. I hate to the point that I dont even want anyone to recommend it for me.
As a QP Shooting and Deathsmiles fanboy, I really failed to comprehend Ikaruga.
How the hell do people even categorize this as more of a puzzle? It was great that they added that substance, this is one of the most famous shumps and you can see why. Radiant Silvergun needs to be added to the Switch Treasure does a great job but they added something different. Some don't like it but a lot do!
Wait... you don't like R-Type? 😳
What a nice video
One thing that im sure is worth mentioning is that this game is awful as an introduction to genre. Im sure many others like myself decided to give it a go because of its reputation and immediately got their asses handed to them because of the combination of difficulty+complexity and delayed getting into the genre.
That being said, this game's design is definitly fascinating and fun, but should probably only be played after you have some experience with the genre
Just too damn hard. I can only master(aka get thru without dying endlessly) the first 2 stages, but then i hit a brick wall when i try to go for a high score. I just cant crack the puzzle of it, no matter how many times i try i can never get that score any higher. I find it the difficulty in getting those chains and maximizing score overly harsh to the extent that it ultimately feels pointless to even try for a higher score....why take the risks and even bother with chains when there's no way ill raise my score and overall stage ranking anyways? Game cosmetically might be among my favs, the visual aesthetic is brilliant, LOVE the color scheme and almost gritty style to the graphics, some very cool enemy design too. Explosions are stellar, sound is stellar. On a superficial level, it might be the coolest, slickest looking/feeling shootemup in existence. But that gameplay, just too damn hard.
its a polarizing title
I just hate the bombastic orchestral music. I prefer much more the old skool weird synthesizer music
My reason for disliking ikaruga is simple. I've played many shmups, and a lot of them are hard, but ikaruga is a special kind of sadistically hard that I find it impossible to get into playing even casually. Most runs die in the second stage, and it's just demoralizing, I can barely even fucking read what's happening. It's completely overloading. I just can't play it.
Missed the easy opportunity to call it "polarizing" instead of "divisive".
Hahaha. That's a pretty good one
Late to the party, to me there is one core issue the games reputation precedes it.
Played it imported on DreamCast, didn't like it. Tried it again on Xbox 360, didn't like it. Doesn't really matter, I can see why people like it but it's the same as other games like Zelda: OoT, I have never liked that game either and people rave about it all the time... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Crimson Clover though, that is a game I like! 😂
That's your opinion.
@@MVC2fan1 Obviously.
It’s slow and puzzeling
The second reason is really elitist. I think it's valid to feel those feelings, but one should he mature enough to recognize that you are feeling them and then not get bitter about it. It's not about not feeling the feeling, it's about being adult enough to overcome them
I'm not sure how saying I'm not that great at the game myself and people are free to enjoy it as they see fit is elitist.
The second reason isn't that I am some special, elite individual, it's that Ikaruga gets a disproportionate focus from wider / more general gaming sites while equally good games get ignored. How is that either elitist, or a 'feeling' that maturity would help someone overcome?
@@ShmupsOnSwitch I'm not saying that you are elitist, I'm saying the second argument in this video is. But I'll admit that elitist is probably a bad word to use. I think it's at least kinda... Weird? Immature? Disliking a game on the sole basis of it being widely regarded as great is kinda weird.
And yet I totally relate. There are lots of things I think gets an "undeserved" amount of attention. But whenever I feel this way I try my absolute hardest not to fault the game/move/whatever for it. It being popular does not make it a worse thing.
I do apologize that I came off as aggressive in my first comment. I want to say that I enjoy your content a great amount, and picked up Crimzon Clover off your recommendation this video (and agree that it's better than Ikaruga)
I'm also sorry that it sounded like i accused you of being elitist. I understand you're just presenting points that doesn't necessarily reflect your own views.
Keep up the great work!
I don't know?
Because it’s too hard
I hate it because it stole the final boss of sonic frontiers >: (
I don't like Ikaruga cause I do not like puzzle games.
haha. You're probably joking but good point
..this game looks not fun to play.
Overrated doesn't exist.
Ewwwwwwww 🤢