Diversity Of Thought
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- In this podcast, Anand Ranganathan, Harsh Gupta, and Abhijit Iyer Mitra talk about caste, religion, Islamism, and everything and anything they feel like talking about. This podcast was a late-night session parallel to the Surat Litfest.
Follow Them:
Twitter: @Iyervval
Twitter: @harshmadhusudan
Twitter: @ARanganathan72
#caste #BBCDocumentary #Islamism
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00:00:00 - intro
00:03:14 - The caste debate
00:14:04 - The Varna System and the Gita
00:46:26 - Gandhi, Ambedkar and Savarkar on Caste
00:53:10 - The RSS view on Caste
01:03:24 - Who is a Hindu ?
01:17:00 - Romila Thapar on Mahabharata
01:34:00 - The BBC Documentary
01:41:00 - Closing Remarks - Розваги
I believe I am the first Japanese listener and loving the channel already, as an expat living in India for 4 years, thank you for sharing all the helpful resources stories I want to keep learning about India,
I wanted to have a membership but I was rejected because of my Japense credit card .. I will give it a try again
Thats is so cool, happy you find this interesting.
@@hisamimatsubara9295 wouldn't a credit car work round the world as long as it's visa/mastercard?
@@thehumanoid6543may be it’s not set for international online transaction or payment.
Hi, if you don't mind me asking about how did yiu find this channel and get interested in Indian discourse?
So great to see AIM doing whole podcast without smoking once.
Yesss
What's AIM
@@navneet5546 what is AIM
@@NISHUGARVU Abhijit Iyer Mitra
Maybe because of Dr. Ranga’s heart condition
Anand is Mr. Reality as he gives a hard reality check 😅🙏
We need more conversations like this
Yes well said 2022 we are sulking about the interpretations of fictional stories - one of the reasons why we still don’t have to see a world class university in top 100 ranks
@@kiranmaddu8006 India had world renowned Taxila, Nalanda, Vikramshila, Pushpahiri etc etc. to name a few in her golden period before your forefathers came to invade/loot us
@@notorious_biggieyea we had amazing universities.
So what's your point.
Instead of focusing on the past focus on future
@@NTIS-DHARMIKsure but why call it fictional without facts?
@@kiranmaddu8006what fictional? Y'all will go to any heights to self immolate.
AIM made a nice Dog lover analogy... It was absolutely un-Abrahamic
Couldnt understand that ? What was that?
@@nobudget2547 basically showing an example of how we can completely twist the meaning and nerrative of ANYTHING. Based on what AIM said Dronacharya must have been pissed because he was a dog lover (which is not true but the nerrative created here). The dog lover thing is showing us we can take a text and change its meaning with with a wrong interpretation. The text remains the same but it will have drastically different interpretations of it.
@@shu830 well said... Since we cannot have the perspective of the person or the time they lived in, we can only assume a lot of the choices they made and assume the reasonings behind those choices... The fact is, certain thing happened, and no matter how fancy we twist it, there are always dark and divine motives behind same event...
@@shu830 not a dog lover but there are different reasons of doing that to him by dronacharya
@@findit.12 Lmao no shit
For someone as well read as these people are.. Their knowledge on the Ekalavya issue looks limited to reading some Wikipedia page
Here are few important facts..
1) Drona asked for Ekalavya's thumb and he just got it.. Why did Ekalavya comply?
Drona asked for Gurudakshina from Ekalavya which he could not refuse..
2) Was Drona the Guru of Ekalavya?
Ekalavya learnt from Dronacharya covertly when he was training the Kuru princes (Kauravas and Pandavas). So what Drona did was essentially and effectively a copyright strike.
3) Why Drona did not teach Ekalavya?
Drona was exclusively contracted by Bheeshma to be teacher to the Kuru princes in the Hastinapur palace premices. He could not include any gatecrasher aspirants..
And the most important fact above all
4) Who was Ekalavya?
Ekalavya was the son of the Commander of Jarasandha's army who was the king of Magadha one of the biggest and most strongest kingdom in Bharatha during that time..He was NOT A TRIBAL just because this incident took place in a forest,,
Copyright strike? Suppose someone is teaching mathematics at school and a boy learns it by sitting far from the class. Would you call it stealing? He learned some basic info and practiced all by himself. Whole incident shows the greatness of eklavya who did not even hesitate to gave his thumb.
Drona made a good political decision but was morally wrong.
@@shikhar2054 stealing is wrong .. morally, ethically or legally however one might look at it.. .. one should not do it..
Thank you was saying this. I was also a bit surprised when they discussed this. Any one can shoot an arrow with a bow , but it is the technique which makes you stand out. Dronacharya was focussed on teaching the technique and not how to shoot with a bow and arrow. What Eklavya did was an intelectual property theft.
Exactly.. the same thoughts when none of them raised this point... may be they have not read the original version or the critical edition.
Eklavya was the adopted son of a tribal chief of nishada tribe but a priviledge lot... indicating tribal mobility...
Always feel happy when see Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj picture at first. Once you come to Maharashtra you become Shivray bhakta.
Im an international viewer & I loved your American "jokes."
They're poignant jokes, and the nation deserves it.
Fascinating, insightful, & hilarious.
Great show:)
How did you come across this channel? Just curious.
@@Sai-ns9ky well, I was raised in an Advaita sant mat ashram community in the US, and though we weren't Indian, or "hindu" (so to speak), consciousness centered practice, & the "wisdoms of the Gurus"/Upanishads were central to my childhood "home-culture".
Since my parents died I've been "tuning in" to Prem Rawat's Satsang more and more to help me get a sense of clarity;
And I've been turning into "Vedanta NY," and Swami Sarvapryananda's Upanishads talks, as well as listening to & talking with others like Swami Charan of ISKCON;
While I've never been one for group-think, tribal identities, nationalism, or even (personally) ethnic identity, and I haven't often appreciated community as much;
But more & more I'm growing to appreciate talking with people who's world views appreciate the same kinds of images and conceptions of maturity, and wisdom as my own.
Naturally, that includes valuing a "Diversity of Thought":D
I probably went looking for a channel like this, but it's also possible that UA-cam has finally decided to label me "hindu" based on my saved videos, and suggested the show based on that.
@@MrKreinen Oh wow thats interesting, that u went out searching for something theology related and u got to hear something which is political related
@@PHALANGE1931 well, that's just the reason I'd have cross-over. For example, after Swami Charan talked so lovingly about RRR I had to watch it, then I had to watch some smart reviews of it :D Then theirs a kind of entanglement of religious identity and a certain corner of society's national or ethnic, and certainly political identity. In 'Merica/USA (if you haven't seen the puppet movie "Team America," the potty humor in it is rather extreme), Christianity, and Conservatism are almost inseparable categories with the Right Wing containing a venn-diagram overlap group of Christian White Nationalists which happens to have been heavily supported by most of the American protestant churches, if not currently, and openly, then in decades past.
@@MrKreinen true
My grandfather came to Mumbai from Surat while my mom's family is based in Aurangabad Maharashtra. So I am a proud Mumbaikar with a warm connect with Gujarat as well as rural Aurangabad. I did my BSc in Jesuit Institution while my Master's in Mgmt was done in a trust run by a minority board. I have a students temperament towards theology as well as sanatan dharma yet I acknowledge having experienced divine energies.
Reacting only and only to the point made about the butchers or tanners not allowed in certain Japanese household in 17th minute of the video. I don't know the background of this custom.
But belonging to the traditionally persistent worshipping family who carry out seva at the household temple everyday. They are particular about cleanliness by design and they are vegetarians.
Understandably Tanners and Butchers are exposed to not just animals but animals in major distress as well as their body parts and fluids. Some animals even may be unknowingly diseased. It is only scientific to disallow them from entering your house unless if you know that they have cleaned themselves properly when they are at your doorstep for delivery.
I would hang out with them outside their work environment. I do not advocate animal farming at industrial scale.
Not just Japan but it was apparently true even in ancient Rome. There are records that public bath houses were either prohibited for menial labourers or they had separate basic bath houses allotted for them which wasn't lavish as it was for normal citizens. Caste as such existed in every society. The only reason it didn't become as extreme as India has an incredible reason for it, one was the incredible population that India always supported. Like for most of the history India always had the largest population of the world, was it due to Varna or did it make varna more stricter is to be debated but in every other ancient society once population exploded, it always went through a phase of plague or famine like situation that eliminated almost half their population as well as almost depleted their resources making almost everyone equal which almost never occured in India. The second reason is that India never had a problem of slavery. Most of the world societies like Europe or even ancient times like Greek or Rome or Persia had huge slave populations who substituted for menial tasks as well as people to look down upon. In almost all these societies the slave population was almost equal in number if not more than actual free citizens. Rome actually had only 1/3rd of its population as free citizens. So the free citizens did not look down upon one another or force them to take up a specific task. Though they also had a stratified society. None of the ancient societies had free mobility. Every one of them was stratified at birth. The bible and quran itself says a slave should obey his master unconditionally. Social mobility was only possible in warring societies where pillage and loot was a norm. There it was survival of the fittest. Even in Rome a low born citizen could go up in social hierarchy if he enlists in the army and proves his might or somehow survives for 30 years after which he could retire with fair compensation and some land and also position in public office, the probability of which was almost nil like most perished in wars.
What a conversation, superb , will be waiting for this kind of conversations in near future.
A great great podcast..... In the end Ranganathan Sir finally did nail it, when he said, "mai to thapar ki na............!" 😄😄👍👍👍👍👍👍🙏😊🙏 we are all with him in this "Sadhu" effort of his! 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗😄😄😄👍👍👍👍👍👍
Anand, to my surprise, is the most intelligent AND knowledgeable person in the crowd.
Looks like Anand was shocked at the level of confident asininity on display by the others.
@@amoghavarshanripatunga he is mocking leftist
@@amoghavarshanripatunga can't you understand sarcasm😢 he is mocking Aryan invasion theory
Anand is the smartest...and abhijeet is the idiotic.....
Why surprised? He is well informed on most things and always factual.
In the Hindu epic Mahabharata, Ekalavya is a young prince of the Nishadha, Ekalavya was the adopted son of Hiranyadhanus, the chief of Nishadha, who found the former when he had been abandoned as an infant by Krishna's uncle and aunt.
Ekalavya abandoned as an infant by Krishna's uncle and aunt! This I did not know. Revelation.
I love analysis of Harsh. He is has immense clarity of thought
Only missing thing is JSD's pov. Would have covered probably entire spectrum of RW.
So many of my preconceived notions around Hinduism and Buddhism or what it is to be a Hindu have been shattered after this. I’m here for the revival of what it means to be an Indian.
39:20 Yo, this has an even more straightforward explanation. Bheeshma had requested Dronacharya, to teach only Kauravas and Pandavas and make them the absolute best in their field of knowledge. Dronacharya requested to teach just Ashwathama, his own son, as an exception to the rule, to which Bheeshma agreed. So when Ekalavya called Dronacharya his guru (teacher), that would be a breach of contract with the royal family. Maybe his request to Ekalavya was just his way of saving himself.
Also eklavya was not some tribal kid, he was son of senapati of magadh, who were enemy of hastinapur, the things guru drona was teaching kauravas and pandavas was important to national security of hastinapur, he didn't want enemy nation to know such powerful knowledge. Kind of like jet engine technology of USA is heavily guarded and they never provide or teach this technology just to any country like that
Eklavya was born to Devashrava son of Sursen and real brother of Vasudeva and Kunti. But Devashrava abandoned him and later was adopted by nishad tribe leader, Hiranyadhanus. This means he was cousins to Pandavas, Kauravas, Karna, Lord Krishna and Sisupal.
Drona had his own ambition too. He was too poor to afford milk for his kid and other children made fun of him. He did get insulted and mocked by Drupad when he asked his help. Afterwards his actions to move Hastinapur were calculated. Krip, was teacher of the Kuru princes. His sister Kirpi was Drona's wife. He came to brother in law and stalked the princes from a distance- found an opportunity to show off his skills and get noticed by Bheeshma. He practically stole the job from his brother in law. Drona was talented but Krip was his host and brother in law... anyway. Drona trained princes and Pandvas paid him back by avenging him by defeating Drupad.
Dronacharya was determined to keep his place in the court. Good and talented teachers do like talented kids - there is a kind of satisfaction in mentoring such a talent. That's how Arjun made his way in with Drona. However Arjun was still a Kuru prince and his direct student. Eklavya , talented as he was, his loyalties were elsewhere. Arjun being jealous alone might not have been enough to act, but Drona would ensure his place as royal teacher of Kurus.
@@thehawkseye3412 from the days of manual archery to present day jet propulsion technology, only a few things remain constant- ego, revenge and one-upmanship....
@@jp-jb1bw That's what keep Mahabharat relevant. It covers all sorts of universal tropes, the actions and consequences and lessons.
That's y even though bheeshma and dronacharya were great personalities at that time they aren't so much remembered..because ultimately as per Krishna dharma is the greatest cause .not family not foe not friend but what's right is right..the dharma way ....these people couldn't differentiate between duty to family friends and dharma ...
Iyyengar supremacy is at its peak! 😎😎
Golden words - Hinduism never believes in a finality of an argument..
Well listening these four together was a biggest treat for us. Keep doing this at least once in a month on any topic. 👍👍
Brilliant! Woke up today and saw this notification. And enjoyed every minute of this podcast!
first i laughed at abhijit for thinking Dronacharya is a dog lover, but then i realised later in Mahabharata (just before war) when Barbareek (Arjun son) was going to show his skills he showed by piercing leaves of tree (instead of shooting at animals or humans), & i also remember, in those days student is taught weapon based on there mental conscious such as bow&arrow is taught to person with highest conscious, then spear, then sward, and last mace. this was because person with higher conscious can will use weapon consciously so provide them weapon with more damage capabilities
I am watching this podcast much later i.e. after 7 months from when it was telecasted. I wish I was part of it when it was live. I am happy that there is something that I know more than the four of you i.e. the stories of Eklavya and Karna. You all four don't know many of the aspects of the stories of Eklavya and Karna like Eklavya's father was a commander of the army of Jarasandh i.e. he was not a person from a humble background. Parshuram did not teach anybody except Brahmins, he had taken a vow. Karna had actually studied under Dronacharya but decided to go to Parshuram because Dronacharya did not want to teach him the knowledge of Brahmastra because he was not ready for it.
40:50 yes the teachear of karna was parshuram second i think dronacharya didnot teach eklavya becuase he was realated to jarasand who was against the kingdom in which dronacharya was a teachear becuase he was the rajya guru like India will not give his nuclear secrets to a sciencetist from pakistan similarly Dhronacharya didnt wanted to give his teaching to eklavya and it is a misinformation that dronacharya didnt teach people from lower cast he did and eklavya is not even lower cast very few people know he is cousin of Sri Krishna
True bro eklavya was son of the chief army commander of jarasandhs army but this fact was really get whitewashed😢
Thank you for this amazing session!!😃😃
As for the varna, my interpretation is, every ideal man is the balanced combination of all the varnas. The ideal man must use his brain, shoulders, thighs and legs to make himself, his family and his society better all the time and fulfill his Swadharma.
I think Abhijit was giving Harsh a culture shock with his language lawl
Anand Ranganathan is a Rockstar
The content was absolute gold man. I will be craving for more such podcasts with the 4 of you in the future
Great conversation, more of such talks needed
Absolutely loving this discussion on Varnas. Looking forward to more of such intellectual yet engaging discourse. On another note my favourite people. Have you come across the work of Swami Deepankar, who for last 58 days has been going to villages and getting people to pledge 'Pehle Rashtra, baad mein caste'. So he is actually getting all Sanatanis in villages to come together as Hindus and give up the caste. I think we must support and pledge the same.
Lol what bout them , Who use caste certificate to get admission in colleges? Will they give up? Or burn thier certificate for muh rashtra?
things will happen slowly don't jump at any one who tries
@@dineshsharma6125 lol try what? To remove caste? Jati/varna? Why?
@@Ishfyk jab certificate nahi the to kya caste nahi thi kya
@@Ishfyk bro this will also end if you respect then think that all Hindus are casteless and same
Love these guys! It was a treat. Thank you!
This is the best podcast i have seen in a long time. Thankyou for this 🙏🙏
Such a deep & entertaining discussion.
Wow such a beautiful conversation! ❤️ Have been hearing them separately but listening together is more eye opening and fun. Thanks for sharing!
Anand sir and abhijit ji in a single frame, damn man, my eyes popped out.
Correction AIM sir, Karana didn’t know he was a “Kshatriya” and presented himself to “Parashurama” as a sailor/fisherman’s son. Parashurama had a “dislike” towards kshatrya’s specifically the ruling class and when he found out because the scorpion biting incident went on to curse Karana that he’d forget everything that Parashurama had taught him when he needed it the most.
Karana presented himself as brahmin to Parshuram
That's why I feel fortunate enough that I born in that culture where we can decent on same line with different perspective without being beheaded or stoned till death.
Amazing conversation just wow! More such convos, very insightful
Trust me, I love the debate, topic. And I really find these thing very interesting. By the way, you four are too funny at the same time. Salute to all of you. Its been days, watched this serious and interesting debate❤❤❤
Absolutely fantastic. Thank you
What an incredible discussion with legendary people.
Dharma is moral duty/moral law which sustains civilized society ........Dharmic/Hindu is a person who believes in dharma......
Please do this session again with same ppl. It was really amazing to listen to.
1:28:34 Brought tears to my eyes
We definately need more podcast with this panel
We need more intellectuals like Harsh Gupta.
This is my multiverse of madnes!!!✨✨
Need more conversations like this😍😍😍👌👌
Heck of a conversation 🔥👌🏽
00:02 Theme: Diversity of Thought
04:36 The speaker defines themselves as Ethiopian, discusses Gandhi's misconceptions about caste, and praises Ambedkar's progressive views.
09:08 Caste and class hierarchies exist in all societies
11:51 Diversity of thought is complex and not black and white
16:49 Societal norms impact occupation-based acceptance in society.
19:11 Division of labor is natural in societies
23:18 Misunderstanding of Varna in post-hoc analysis
26:39 Core texts do not support hereditary basis for community mapping
31:30 Respecting interpretations without imposing opinions
34:02 Dronacharya's act of asking for Eklavia's thumb
38:53 Diversity of thought in interpreting an epic story.
41:19 The Mahabharata offers diverse interpretations
47:39 Gandhi's evolving views on caste and leadership in a divided society
49:31 Gandhi's evolving views on caste issues
54:02 RSS is not associated with casteism.
56:11 Internal diversity in Hinduism
1:00:21 Challenging literalist view of scriptures
1:03:46 Atheism and agnosticism in the context of doubting the existence of God.
1:09:09 Definition of identity through rituals and beliefs
1:12:11 Respecting family deity rituals and traditions.
1:15:57 Discussion on faith and skepticism
1:17:58 Debate on the historical date of Mahabharata
1:23:17 Influence of diverse theories on religious practices
1:25:59 Avoid falling for a deliberate dichotomy trap
1:32:07 Archaeology reveals forgotten historical figures
1:34:53 Discussion on duplicity in actions and reactions
1:40:14 Discussion on cultural differences and perspectives
00:00 Embracing diversity of thought fosters innovation
I absolutely loved this discussion. Do more of this kind. They were not even looking ,just engrossed in their discussion 😊
the best line is form harsh, "we should not fall in the dichotomy trap". That's the most essential thing.
Best episode ever. Amazing insights and really funny
Excellent discussion 🙏❤️👍
one of the bessstttt podcasts..... thoroughly entertaining, informative and love the extemporaneous discussion 💯👌👏👏👏
need more such conversations, interesting group of speakers!
This was a blast 💥
I thoroughly enjoyed it🙂
Love you all🥰
Jai Hind 🙏🏻🇮🇳🙏🏻
Great podcast! Loved it...Need this teamup more often! Precise and articulate!
Brilliant. Outstanding. Just 😘
Lovely interaction.....thanks a lot~♥~🙏
Pure Gold 👍👍 Podcast 👍
Exciting discussion 👍👍👍💥❤️🔥
Wish you all the best
I very much enjoyed the conversation
Awesome podcast..
Love to see you all together..
Kushals laughter is so contagious..
Keep it on..👍👍 & Thank u for healthy discussion🙏🙏
A great conversation !
Mazaaa Aa gaya
Wake up morning at 6.30 and find postcast saying 5 hour ago, and I was like "ये कब हुआ"
Like to see all 4 of you in upcoming podcasts
Thank
🙏
Amazing loved it 💞💞💞💞💞
This podcast was very interesting, educative, and funny at the same time.
Brilliant podcast
Gosh loved this session ... Moon n back....
We need more conversation like this.
This is the best I have seen so much fun
Wow thanks alot for this podcast ❤️
Well Structured Discussion, Very Happy.......
These are very soothing conversations to me. Bravo!
Excellent podcast, this is the type of debate is what makes Bharat great. We need such debates in Indian Universities, young people need to be exposed to such conversations to understand ourselves & Bharat's place in the world.
This podcast is Gem 💎
Loved it ❤
Just to make the Karna episode clear to everyone. Yes it was Parashurama who cursed Karna for pretending to be a Brahmana to become his disciple. Parashurama was a Brahmana and his father was killed by an evil king. He vowed to wipe out the kshatriya clan from earth and did so for 21 generations. He was clearly pissed off with Kshatriyas and after knowing Karna to be one, he cursed him.
Abhijit Iyer Mitra sir, I am your great fan. You are the best ever.
As Rahul Gandhi would have said, "Mazaa aaya".
R.I.P rahul gandhi , he was truly there for indians , i cant say about the current murderer
rahul gandhi tumhare dimag me he mene mar dia use
This stream was so good.
Wisdom ,knowledge comedy ,banter and everything
Too good guys.
What a set of minds ! We are lucky that now we have access to such thoughts.
This podcast is revolutionary
This is fun to watch and such interactions are very welcome. Although, to understand the vast space of our sacred texts, shAstras, smritis... one needs to acquire "samnvaya sAmarthya" in order to deal with all the contradictory vAkyas that befuddles the superficial reader who is simply reading some translated work to quench his intellectual curiosity. One gets the adhikAra to explain what our various texts have to say only after undergoing rigorous brahmacarya while engaging in VedAbhyAsa under the tutelage of proven acharya (otherwise, just as these guys were talking about BG 9:32 where it is implied that "sthri" is looked down upon by the society while we know how Hindu society is full of reverence for feminine divinity; proclamations like "nAri nArayaNi" etc. will confuse us)
Keep bringing more!
Excellent.
Nice discussion
What an interaction ❤
Love to see AIM and AR together ❤❤
One of the best podcast of this channel. ✌🏼 Love every moment 🤣
Loved it
Missed opportunity to get all the minds in one frame but what a amazing video
Damn wht a banger of a talk it was !!
Was a banger of a session!
KUSHAL,pls INVITE Sudhanshu Trivedi in these type of debates.....I know he is bjp but he is quite unhinged with political views when we discuss ideas n history...
It will make the podcast RICHER...
He is great at polemics but not quite good at one to one discussion
@@dineshsharma6125 What exactly you r referring to?
Superrr I loved it enjoyed and learned 🙏🙏🙏😍
This pannel is fire.