Matt Sheiman Really he's just the victim of time. No one who knows him underrates him. It's a far more common problem in the MLB, which is even older, but it has certainly started affecting the NFL... seems like Unitas is too old for most fans to know much about these days, let alone graham.
From 1946 to 1955, Otto Graham never missed a game...and his record in those years was 114 -20- 4...not to shabby folks!!! He took the Browns to 10 straight championship games...and he won 7!!! If titles are the measuring stick...then Otto Graham is the best QB of all time!!!
People look at the current state of the Cleveland Browns and think automatically "they suck" . The original Cleveland Browns franchise are IMO the most important franchise in forming the blueprint for the modern NFL. In Otto Graham you have the first modern day franchise quarterback (Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman were in the '30s and '40s). In Paul Brown the innovative head coach who started training camp and calling signals and of course the immortal Jim Brown. The Browns with Marion Motley were also at the forefront of breaking the color barrier in pro football. When you add the fact that Paul Brown's coaching tree includes legendary coaches Don Shula and Chuck Noll, the Browns place in NFL history is more than secure.
yes on all of the above. It's so sad of the sad state of affairs of the Browns in the last 20 years. I keep thinking one day a Browns team resembling the '85 Bears will come along and win it all.
In 1946...Graham's QB rating was 112.1. That was the record until it was broken by Joe Montana in 1989!!! He also won an NBL..(early NBA).. title with the Rochester Royals!!!
The Undisputed Greatest Quarterback Of All Time. Fun fact: Otto also won a NBA championship with the Rochester Royals before playing football for the Browns. He is also a Navy veteran, so he was an all around bad-ass!
I still have a picture of me with Otto Graham from when I was a senior in high school (Shaw High East Cleveland. OH 1950). He was the guest speaker at an event at the local YMCA . I was an assistant coach for the team (14 to 15 yr olds) that won the championship at the Y. After the dinner the team had our picture taken by the local paper with Otto. I also saw Otto play basketball with some of the Browns players on a barnstorming tour. He was really good. He attended Northwestern University on a basketball scholarship. Did not take up football until his sophomore year. As a senior, he was named a first-team basketball All-American. Also played baseball in college. Quite an athlete.
Every year he played, he got Cleveland to a championship game. He did not win all of those championship games, but most of them. What more can you ask of a quarterback? Anyway you look at it, he was the greatest at one thing: winning
From 1946 to 1955...Graham went to 10 straight championship games...and they won 7!!! That's like going to 10 straight Superbowls..and winning 7. GREAT QB!!!
Jim Cushman Yeah, it's not. The AAFC was a garbage league with one great team. The only reason the merger took place is because the Browns were so good.
@Damien Jones Graham was a Single Wing Tailback in college at Northwestern. That requires both passing and running ability. Among today's professionals, Taysom Hill of the Saints and Lamar Jackson of the Ravens have SWTB tools.
Shula was apart of so much history Played with otto graham Coached the colts during their loss to namath in superbowl 3 Coached the only undefeated team in the superbowl era 17-0 Marino All time wins record
My late father grew up just south of Cleveland and he's always maintained Otto's passing prowess was better than any of the modern QB's he ever saw...he used to say Otto had the perfect long ball that would come down like a rainbow right in the receivers outstretched hands, impossible to defense.
Hell ya. Otto and Sammy def had that perfect floating attribute. I consider them even better today because of new tech and better receivers. In Sammy's case, he had that fatter ball to heave. Both of 'em great in any era.
Not only the GQBOAT but a top 10 all-time American athlete. All-American in both college football and basketball. Held baseball records at Northwestern until a few years ago. Won a pro basketball championship in 1946. Also, up until a couple of years ago held all-time record for rush TDs for a pro QB.
He was the greatest QB of all-time and it isn't close. He played in 10 straight title games and won 7. He led his league in passer rating 5 times. Until last year he held the all-time record for rushing TDs by a pro QB with 44. His all-time record for career passing YdsPerAtt is a staggering 9.0 (most coaches will tell you this is the most telling pass stat). In his last pro game which was the NFL championship he ran for 2 TDs and passed for 2 TDs in leading the Browns over the Rams 38-14. Graham was at the very top as a passer, ball carrier, playmaker, leader and winner. One cannot come close to making that statement about any other pro QB.
Otto Graham an excellent case for Greatest Professional Quarterback Ever! 10 Seasons Played and in the Championship Game Every Year! Otto won 7 of those Championship Games!
He retired after the '54 season, and when the QB Brown was going to go with in '55 got hurt in summer camp Brown asked him to come back. Initially he said no but Brown said he'd make him the highest paid player in the NFL for the year if he would do so and Otto agreed. Brown asked him not to tell anyone what he was getting paid. His salary for the '55 season was $25.000.
Did you know he was the the guy the refs reported to on Monday...Im serious he was...Even when he was coaching, he was their supervisor, can you imagine that now, like if Andy Reid was the guy in charge of the officials...I remember when the Dolphins would play the Jets, you could always count on big calls against the Jets when Miami needed one, because those refs had to report to Shula the next morning.That's back when you could call holding and not have to name the number of the player..That's the truth
@Harry Engel Gibbs was great. 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 different QB's...2 of whom were just journeyman QB's Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. The Skins always had a great offensive line and receiving core. Art Monk is one of the best who ever played. Darrell Green was the main guy on D and one of the best corners ever
My Dad grew up in Kent and used to tell me stories about Otto Graham throwing those beautiful rainbow bombs with the ball coming down right in the wr's outstretched hands...Otto put such air under his long throws they were impossible to defend....he may be the best QB in NFL history.
People need to understand that with out Otto Graham, there is no Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw ect.
ExchantedGamer I don't care about NFL or AAFC or how many rings what QB has. You completely misunderstood my entire statement. I'm saying Otto Graham paved the way for winning QB's including Tom Brady, who i personally love as a QB. I'm saying give respect to the guy who started the road for elite QB's
Horror Fan87 yea but I’m just sayin like how can they compare Otto to Brady but when you actually realize players from back then wouldn’t even fit with the players today actually
While waiting for his first season to play with the browns, he played basketball for the Rochester royals (Sacramento Kings now) and won a championship with them, so 11 championships in 10 seasons, or a 110% success rate.
Had my Grandfather been a few years younger we would have been an All American Guard for Otto at Northwestern...he always wondered what they could have been
As a 49ers fan, I'll admit to being biased towards Joe Montana. However, if I had to pick a second best QB of all-time behind Joe Cool, Otto Graham would get my vote.
Ummm, there were only 12 teams during that time. Hardly much competition. Please stop comparing players from the 50's to current players. It's a useless argument.
Damn. Otto Graham, Jimmy Brown, ect. 10 straight playoffs under Otto. And he looks way better than any Cleveland QB in the last 5 decades. Gotta irk the present Brown fans with "what once was".
The biggest difference between Graham and Brady is their athletic and football ability. Graham was already a legend before he ever played a down in pro football. He was an all-American in both football and basketball & won a pro basketball championship in the spring of 1946. On the football field there was an even greater difference between them in that Graham was a supreme play maker & ball carrier. Up until a couple of years ago he held the all-time record for rushing TDs by a pro QB (44). He also finished his career with 7 interceptions as a DB including 5 in his very first season of 1946. Oh and then there's this. He and his incomparable coach Paul Brown created both the modern T-formation QB position and the modern pro offense which have been just only copied ever since. As for his passing prowess. Well he still holds the all-time career record for Y/A at an incredible 9.0 which is 1.5 higher than Brady's and even though he played in the 1940s&50s his career passer rating is higher than the following QBs: Marino, Favre, Aikman, Elway, Kelly, McNabb, Newton, Flacco, Moon & E. Manning who all played the majority of their careers in the 90s or later.
It's not entirely impossible to equally evaluate performers from different eras because none of them played in a vacuum or totally isolated. Here's what I mean. Graham played 8 seasons in the same league as Y. A. Tittle; Tittle played 9 yrs with Unitas; Unitas played 13 yrs w/ Tarkenton; Tarkenton played 10 yrs w/ Staubach; Staubach played 7 yrs w/ Fouts; Fouts 9 yrs w/ Montana; Montana 12 yrs w/ Marino; Marino 9 yrs w/ Favre; Favre 11 yrs w/ Brady. The game changes gradually and many diverse players are there for many of those changes. As I have said often on these forums Graham didn't play 300 years ago. Not only that but he is linked directly or indirectly to at least some degree to all the QBs that came after him. In his case even more than all the others because he is by far most responsible for the creation of the modern T-formation QB position.
Beyond I'm a Packer's fun, I have to recognize that Tom Brady is one of the greatest players in the NFL history. As far as I'm concerned, if we talk about quarterbacks, he's only next to Otto Graham on the top of the NFL history. Greetings for all of you NFL fanatics around the world, from Quilmes Buenos Aires.
I grew up in Baltimore Im 62 and my dad a Bmore Colts diehard always said this guy was better then Unitas but coach Brown never opened it up for him. The 49 Browns may have been the best pro team of all time. No weakness and tons of depth.
To further clarify the quality of the game back in that time. Jim Brown who's rookie season was 1957 (2 years after Graham's retirement) was both bigger and faster than than W. Payton & E. Smith. Smith's final season was in 2004. BTW, more teams and players means weaker competition, not better. That's because the level of quality has to be lowered to fill all those extra rosters. Also consider that in those days the top college players played both O & D which allowed them to really learn how to play the game.
He won like 7 or 8 titles. He should be higher. In football (European) titles won decades ago or even a century ago are taken into account. In American Football people shouldn't forget players like him or Sammy Baugh. Thanks to them the sport is what it is today.
Greatest QB of all time. The haters can try to talk down his accomplishments all they want with the "AAFC wasn't a real league" and "not many teams," I don't care. 10 straight title games, 7 titles won. NOBODY has matched that and nobody probably ever will, although Brady's coming close to that 2nd goal.
Its funny that people would say that the Browns were just a good minor league team. Did players like Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Mac Speedie, Bill Willis, etc.just suddenly become great players in 1950 after Cleveland entered the NFL.
This is how good Graham was. Despite playing in the 1940s&50s his career passer rating is higher than the following QBs: Marino, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Moon, Favre, Simms, McNabb, Kelly, E. Manning, Newton & Flacco.
Until you look his stats up and realize that he averaged about 88 yards per season running the ball, and never had any more than 146 yards rushing in a season.
how underrated are defenses from the 40's and 50's? everyone thinks they were so bad.. have you seen the giants, rams defenses from those time periods? One of the best defenses of all time
They were great for their time, but they would be small and slow compared to even the worst NFL defenses of today. Although they'd probably still be tougher men solely based on how little rules and protections there were in the game back then. lol
Most everyone was underrated. People seem to believe no one knew how to pass until the 70's, but when you watch footage of players like Otto, Unitas, even Sammy Baugh before them and you'll see step backs, pump fakes, and perfect spirals on long bombs. The difference really was that the average team was much less impressive, there was less talent numbers-wise to compete for positions, and a few teams would outspend the rest, but the peak players were still superb.
@@kvltizt I think Unitas is the GoAT. An extra coach in the huddle who called his own plays, Unitas INVENTED the 2 minute drill. The man was physically and mentally tough and made ALL the throws. Show me where Brees/Brady/Marino block. Unitas regularly called a reverse that required him to block a LB. He loved the contact and there's film footage somewhere of him "pancaking" a LB. To tell the truth, giving any of Baugh, Luckman, Graham, and Unitas access to today's training, nutrition, and sports medicine would result in shredded contemporary defenses, just like they did in their own time. "Cream rises!"
@@eliduttman315 You are right, I think. I still gotta go with Marino on pure arm talent or Manning for coaching a huddle. Unitas changed the game though. He is why those guys existed. 👍
@JL-CptAtom Maybe I meant Eli Manming clutchly destroying the Pats in two out of two Super Bowl match ups? But seriously, Peyton Manning's ability to orchestrate is legendary and unquestionable. He was a second offensive coordinator more or less.
A running back that Paul Brown turned into a quarterback. All I hear about these days is “ in the new NFL you need to have a dual threat quarterback.” I’m not sure there is anything new. Sounds like Otto Graham was the first dual threat quarterback. I have always been a Cowboys fan, so Roger Staubach has always been my favorite. But I remember learning about Otto Graham and how many titles he won. Seven in 10 years. Wow! Maybe he is the best quarterback ever! It makes me wonder if that’s the reason Tom Brady is trying for number 8.
Actually when it comes to modern Terms Otto would have surpassed much more. In a era when QB's cant be touched Otto would have been called beast mode QB! Remember at the during the old school era you would take hits that would draw a 100000000 flags in today's game.
A 21st century QB playing in the mid 20th century. The forerunner of modern quarterbacking. Look at other films of the era, and it's striking how ahead of his time he was. As far as I'm concerned the GOAT is either him or Brady.
Otto Graham & Jim Brown are the only two players in pro football history to accomplish all of the following during their careers: (1) Play every game and lead their team to a winning record in each and every season of the career. (2) Average the equivalent of 1 TD (rush TD = 1 TD / TDP & TDR = 1/2 TD) per scheduled career game. (3) Finish their career with a career average of over 8.0 pass Y/A at QB or over 5.0 rush Y/A at RB. These achievements put both of them head & shoulders above all other players in pro football history. In case you are wondering, Tom Brady won't match any of the 3 accomplishments.
Barry Sanders invented the juke. There will never be a twitchier more electrifying running back in our life time. Had he stuck around for another 2-3 seasons he would've put the career rushing record mark well out of reach of anyone for the next 100 years.
@@Johnjohn-dt6hw Yes, Brady was great! Definitely great! Brady is an Elite Hall of Fame QB! ... From Automatic Otto to Joe Montana, to all of the Terry Bradshaws, Jim Kellys, Dan Marinos, Bernie Kosars, Boomer Esiasons, etc., etc. in between.
@@JCYTTV You sound foolish, it's not brain surgery. Graham & Paul Brown created the modern T-formation QB position & the modern pro offense. They have only been copied ever since.
Because he was in the pre-SB era when film was black & white and players were about 125lbs lighter on avg than today, he doesn't get the credit that he deserves. But it is Otto and not Elway or Montana to whom Tom Brady should be compared to. Otto has the #1 winning pct all time (depending on his record that year Brady is either #2 or #3 all time flipping spots with Larmonica). And 10 title games with 7 wins in 10 seasons (admittedly in a smaller NFL and lesser quality AAFC) is the ultimate Bill Russell-like football record (I think Brady's 13 AFC East wins 10 AFC Conf Champ Game appearances and 6 SB appearances in 14 seasons in a much bigger league is the modern comparable).
And just like Bill Russell, he is eternally overrated for this despite everyone knowing in their hearts the competition back then was nothing compared to now. Imagine putting an All Pro Defensive team against an All Pro Offense from back then. The offense would quite literally get run over, throw around, battered and demolished.
bjdon99 125lbs lighter? Really didn't know women played the game back then.... 0_o Lets not forget that the tackling was much crazier less rules and so on. Modern QB's are super protected. Not that they dont take a lick here and there. But when they do look at what happens. Out of the game for a bit. Otto himself was 190 something, and compared to today most QB's are 10+ more if that. I remember a call on Ahmad Brooks (Niner LB at the time) for roughing the passer (Drew Brees) it was such a BS call for a normal tackle. But whatever floats everyones boats. Heck go back and watch interviews from players from back then. Talk about the passing window being inches compared to todays passing windows.
The single most underrated QB ever
Matt Sheiman
Really he's just the victim of time. No one who knows him underrates him.
It's a far more common problem in the MLB, which is even older, but it has certainly started affecting the NFL... seems like Unitas is too old for most fans to know much about these days, let alone graham.
Only three other QB's ahead of him on this list so I would say that he's no longer underrated.
Matt Sheiman I could agree with that
I agree
@The Anthropologist _Forensic The thing is though Otto is every bit as iconic as the names you just mentioned
But good point about the lack of footage
From 1946 to 1955, Otto Graham never missed a game...and his record in those years was 114 -20- 4...not to shabby folks!!! He took the Browns to 10 straight championship games...and he won 7!!! If titles are the measuring stick...then Otto Graham is the best QB of all time!!!
Better than Tom Brady by far
Miller Mayhem when the browns moved to the nfl , the Browns were beating them as well
I think superbowls are harder were harder to win, but jesus, 7/10 championships won? thats an insane stat. Otto Graham was a beast.
I'm sure that having Jim Brown as a running back helped out quite a bit.
Still great accomplishments.
Jim brown came later.
People look at the current state of the Cleveland Browns and think automatically "they suck" . The original Cleveland Browns franchise are IMO the most important franchise in forming the blueprint for the modern NFL. In Otto Graham you have the first modern day franchise quarterback (Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman were in the '30s and '40s). In Paul Brown the innovative head coach who started training camp and calling signals and of course the immortal Jim Brown. The Browns with Marion Motley were also at the forefront of breaking the color barrier in pro football. When you add the fact that Paul Brown's coaching tree includes legendary coaches Don Shula and Chuck Noll, the Browns place in NFL history is more than secure.
Browns is the most important (and the best) team before super bowl era
yes on all of the above. It's so sad of the sad state of affairs of the Browns in the last 20 years. I keep thinking one day a Browns team resembling the '85 Bears will come along and win it all.
Claude White Well put, sir!
Claude White lol I was reading it thinking luckman and slingin Sammy then you mentioned them and you read my mind
Claude White 💯💯💯
In 1946...Graham's QB rating was 112.1. That was the record until it was broken by Joe Montana in 1989!!! He also won an NBL..(early NBA).. title with the Rochester Royals!!!
Jim Cushman: It's also the last time the Royals/Kings won a title.
Let's clarify, in 1946 the Browns played in the AAFC not the NFL. The AAFC was overall not on the same level as the NFL.
Andrew * He did play in the NFL later in his career and whats your point?
112.1? That's pretty incredible given the era... I imagine he had a much larger impact as a rusher as well.
mortensen1961 they won in 54 I think
Browns fan today will love to have Otto on his team!!!
Mal Vader oof
The Undisputed Greatest Quarterback Of All Time. Fun fact: Otto also won a NBA championship with the Rochester Royals before playing football for the Browns. He is also a Navy veteran, so he was an all around bad-ass!
Lmao not even close to the greatest of all time.
I still have a picture of me with Otto Graham from when I was a senior in high school (Shaw High East Cleveland. OH 1950). He was the guest speaker at an event at the local YMCA . I was an assistant coach for the team (14 to 15 yr olds) that won the championship at the Y. After the dinner the team had our picture taken by the local paper with Otto. I also saw Otto play basketball with some of the Browns players on a barnstorming tour. He was really good. He attended Northwestern University on a basketball scholarship. Did not take up football until his sophomore year. As a senior, he was named a first-team basketball All-American. Also played baseball in college. Quite an athlete.
Every year he played, he got Cleveland to a championship game. He did not win all of those championship games, but most of them. What more can you ask of a quarterback? Anyway you look at it, he was the greatest at one thing: winning
David Norris
The Bill Russel of football.
Agreed David good comparison
I think Otto definitely belongs in the top ten. He is very underrated. Great athlete and winner.
From 1946 to 1955...Graham went to 10 straight championship games...and they won 7!!!
That's like going to 10 straight Superbowls..and winning 7. GREAT QB!!!
Jim Cushman
Yeah, it's not.
The AAFC was a garbage league with one great team. The only reason the merger took place is because the Browns were so good.
I wouldn't say it was a garbage league. Look at the NFL All Star roster after the merger. Tons of AAFC players.
Tyler G Great argument! Superbowls are Waaaaay harder to get to bud.
This was pre salary cap. It’s way harder now
greatest QB of all time....nobody realizes it, I always tell my friends but they're like "Yeah whatever"
The most underrated QB of all time!!!!!
I didn't know he could run it that well. He really is phenomenal. He could play today and dominate.
@Damien Jones Graham was a Single Wing Tailback in college at Northwestern. That requires both passing and running ability. Among today's professionals, Taysom Hill of the Saints and Lamar Jackson of the Ravens have SWTB tools.
Shula was apart of so much history
Played with otto graham
Coached the colts during their loss to namath in superbowl 3
Coached the only undefeated team in the superbowl era 17-0
Marino
All time wins record
My late father grew up just south of Cleveland and he's always maintained Otto's passing prowess was better than any of the modern QB's he ever saw...he used to say Otto had the perfect long ball that would come down like a rainbow right in the receivers outstretched hands, impossible to defense.
Hell ya. Otto and Sammy def had that perfect floating attribute. I consider them even better today because of new tech and better receivers. In Sammy's case, he had that fatter ball to heave. Both of 'em great in any era.
Otto Graham's skillset looks so modern.
He was ahead of his time, that's for sure.
Not only the GQBOAT but a top 10 all-time American athlete. All-American in both college football and basketball. Held baseball records at Northwestern until a few years ago. Won a pro basketball championship in 1946. Also, up until a couple of years ago held all-time record for rush TDs for a pro QB.
He was the greatest QB of all-time and it isn't close. He played in 10 straight title games and won 7. He led his league in passer rating 5 times. Until last year he held the all-time record for rushing TDs by a pro QB with 44. His all-time record for career passing YdsPerAtt is a staggering 9.0 (most coaches will tell you this is the most telling pass stat). In his last pro game which was the NFL championship he ran for 2 TDs and passed for 2 TDs in leading the Browns over the Rams 38-14. Graham was at the very top as a passer, ball carrier, playmaker, leader and winner. One cannot come close to making that statement about any other pro QB.
Otto Graham an excellent case for Greatest Professional Quarterback Ever!
10 Seasons Played and in the Championship Game Every Year! Otto won 7 of those Championship Games!
10 seasons, 10 Championship games. I can't see how he is not in the Top 10.
He was basically the Bill Russell of football.
He retired after the '54 season, and when the QB Brown was going to go with in '55 got hurt in summer camp Brown asked him to come back. Initially he said no but Brown said he'd make him the highest paid player in the NFL for the year if he would do so and Otto agreed. Brown asked him not to tell anyone what he was getting paid. His salary for the '55 season was $25.000.
Very classy Coast Guard man. Took the time to write back to me when I sent him a letter when I was a kid.
Wow, Don Shula, he would be in the argument for best coaches of all time in my book.
Did you know he was the the guy the refs reported to on Monday...Im serious he was...Even when he was coaching, he was their supervisor, can you imagine that now, like if Andy Reid was the guy in charge of the officials...I remember when the Dolphins would play the Jets, you could always count on big calls against the Jets when Miami needed one, because those refs had to report to Shula the next morning.That's back when you could call holding and not have to name the number of the player..That's the truth
I thought you 'fake news guys' were getting shut down, clearly not...
@impass...you are incorrect...he was head of the NFL competition committee, the ref's did not "report to him".
PtolemyJones He wouldn’t be in the argument. He IS the argument
@Harry Engel Gibbs was great. 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 different QB's...2 of whom were just journeyman QB's Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. The Skins always had a great offensive line and receiving core. Art Monk is one of the best who ever played. Darrell Green was the main guy on D and one of the best corners ever
I’m gonna say this once and maybe again but
Greatest qb ever
The Cleveland Browns used to be the Patriots! lol
...the Patriots used to be the Cleveland Browns as well haha
My Dad grew up in Kent and used to tell me stories about Otto Graham throwing those beautiful rainbow bombs with the ball coming down right in the wr's outstretched hands...Otto put such air under his long throws they were impossible to defend....he may be the best QB in NFL history.
I am from the same town as Otto Graham, Waukegan IL, my dad always told me how great he was. He was on the wall of fame of the high school.
This dude got 90+ truck in madden 19 as a qb 😂😂
The definition of winning 😊
People need to understand that with out Otto Graham, there is no Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw ect.
ExchantedGamer I don't care about NFL or AAFC or how many rings what QB has. You completely misunderstood my entire statement. I'm saying Otto Graham paved the way for winning QB's including Tom Brady, who i personally love as a QB. I'm saying give respect to the guy who started the road for elite QB's
Horror Fan87 yea but I’m just sayin like how can they compare Otto to Brady but when you actually realize players from back then wouldn’t even fit with the players today actually
god I wish there was no terry bradshaw
The greatest QB of all time. Period.
Montana
.
Brady
While waiting for his first season to play with the browns, he played basketball for the Rochester royals (Sacramento Kings now) and won a championship with them, so 11 championships in 10 seasons, or a 110% success rate.
The greatest period!
Idk if this is me doubting the skill of the NFL in the early days but Otto looks so ahead of his time. About 30 years ahead of his time.
From 46-55, Otto averaged 1.8 losses a season..... what the hell
Had my Grandfather been a few years younger we would have been an All American Guard for Otto at Northwestern...he always wondered what they could have been
He should be rated #1 no other qb took there team to 10 consecutive titles or championships games
a man that sits on the kings throne
Being a qb #60 is a privilege
That was his number when the Browns were in the AAFL. When the team joined the NFL he had to change his number and wore #14.
These old guys were EXTREMELY athletic and intelligent... considering they didn't have the same training offered today
As a 49ers fan, I'll admit to being biased towards Joe Montana. However, if I had to pick a second best QB of all-time behind Joe Cool, Otto Graham would get my vote.
Which makes sense since Walsh comes from the Paul Brown coaching tree
R.I.P Don Shula
Favorite Dolphin, Colt, Redskin, and Brown of all time
Greatest QB of all time. Show me another who's been to 10 straight title games and won 7
If he played now he would be average and he played when there was a lot less skill but he is still great
are you serious? he played in a defense dominated era so he would be breaking records if he played today
Ummm, there were only 12 teams during that time. Hardly much competition. Please stop comparing players from the 50's to current players. It's a useless argument.
You mean like the watered down version of the NFL today?
Jim Cushman ppl nowadays would be legends back then they are bigger faster stronger in better shape and smarter
Damn. Otto Graham, Jimmy Brown, ect. 10 straight playoffs under Otto. And he looks way better than any Cleveland QB in the last 5 decades. Gotta irk the present Brown fans with "what once was".
At quarterback number 60 Otto Graham! He also wore 14 but seeing #60 at QB is pretty sweet.
I have always wanted the #60 Cleveland Browns Otto Graham throwback.
The biggest difference between Graham and Brady is their athletic and football ability. Graham was already a legend before he ever played a down in pro football. He was an all-American in both football and basketball & won a pro basketball championship in the spring of 1946. On the football field there was an even greater difference between them in that Graham was a supreme play maker & ball carrier. Up until a couple of years ago he held the all-time record for rushing TDs by a pro QB (44). He also finished his career with 7 interceptions as a DB including 5 in his very first season of 1946. Oh and then there's this. He and his incomparable coach Paul Brown created both the modern T-formation QB position and the modern pro offense which have been just only copied ever since. As for his passing prowess. Well he still holds the all-time career record for Y/A at an incredible 9.0 which is 1.5 higher than Brady's and even though he played in the 1940s&50s his career passer rating is higher than the following QBs: Marino, Favre, Aikman, Elway, Kelly, McNabb, Newton, Flacco, Moon & E. Manning who all played the majority of their careers in the 90s or later.
It's not entirely impossible to equally evaluate performers from different eras because none of them played in a vacuum or totally isolated. Here's what I mean. Graham played 8 seasons in the same league as Y. A. Tittle; Tittle played 9 yrs with Unitas; Unitas played 13 yrs w/ Tarkenton; Tarkenton played 10 yrs w/ Staubach; Staubach played 7 yrs w/ Fouts; Fouts 9 yrs w/ Montana; Montana 12 yrs w/ Marino; Marino 9 yrs w/ Favre; Favre 11 yrs w/ Brady. The game changes gradually and many diverse players are there for many of those changes. As I have said often on these forums Graham didn't play 300 years ago. Not only that but he is linked directly or indirectly to at least some degree to all the QBs that came after him. In his case even more than all the others because he is by far most responsible for the creation of the modern T-formation QB position.
Beyond I'm a Packer's fun, I have to recognize that Tom Brady is one of the greatest players in the NFL history. As far as I'm concerned, if we talk about quarterbacks, he's only next to Otto Graham on the top of the NFL history.
Greetings for all of you NFL fanatics around the world, from Quilmes Buenos Aires.
As a steelers fan, even I think he's an all time great
I grew up in Baltimore Im 62 and my dad a Bmore Colts diehard always said this guy was better then Unitas but coach Brown never opened it up for him. The 49 Browns may have been the best pro team of all time. No weakness and tons of depth.
Tom Brady won 7 rings in 20 years
Otto Graham won 7 rings in 10 years
Both Won 3 MVPs and Both redefined what a winner was
Therefore, Graham is the GOAT
Only Otto wasn’t suspended 4 games for cheating
To further clarify the quality of the game back in that time. Jim Brown who's rookie season was 1957 (2 years after Graham's retirement) was both bigger and faster than than W. Payton & E. Smith. Smith's final season was in 2004. BTW, more teams and players means weaker competition, not better. That's because the level of quality has to be lowered to fill all those extra rosters. Also consider that in those days the top college players played both O & D which allowed them to really learn how to play the game.
Greatest quarterback over the last 100 years. No doubt.
Hahaha
No that’s tb12
@@nickstah9184 Bullsh*t
@@Big.Deez1999 na
@@nickstah9184 yah
He also won a basketball championship at the professional level before going to the browns.
He has the Highest Qb winning percentage in NFL History 82%. He was the originator of being a winning quarterback in the NFL.
otto the goat
I like the fact that Otto wore # 60.
He won like 7 or 8 titles. He should be higher. In football (European) titles won decades ago or even a century ago are taken into account. In American Football people shouldn't forget players like him or Sammy Baugh. Thanks to them the sport is what it is today.
He actually won 3 NFL Championship tho
GOAT
Greatest QB of all time. The haters can try to talk down his accomplishments all they want with the "AAFC wasn't a real league" and "not many teams," I don't care. 10 straight title games, 7 titles won. NOBODY has matched that and nobody probably ever will, although Brady's coming close to that 2nd goal.
Comickid15 but there right tho the AAFC didn’t even last long
Its funny that people would say that the Browns were just a good minor league team. Did players like Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Mac Speedie, Bill Willis, etc.just suddenly become great players in 1950 after Cleveland entered the NFL.
Otto Graham was basically the Bill Russel of the NFL lol
Love how Mad Dog is passing everybody of when he mentions this man's name.
This is how good Graham was. Despite playing in the 1940s&50s his career passer rating is higher than the following QBs: Marino, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Moon, Favre, Simms, McNabb, Kelly, E. Manning, Newton & Flacco.
...and Johnny Football !
If you measure QBs by 'Super Bowl' wins Graham is the greatest.
The original "not bad for a running back" haha. What a legend
Until you look his stats up and realize that he averaged about 88 yards per season running the ball, and never had any more than 146 yards rushing in a season.
Those are some pretty passes
how underrated are defenses from the 40's and 50's? everyone thinks they were so bad.. have you seen the giants, rams defenses from those time periods? One of the best defenses of all time
They were great for their time, but they would be small and slow compared to even the worst NFL defenses of today. Although they'd probably still be tougher men solely based on how little rules and protections there were in the game back then. lol
Most everyone was underrated. People seem to believe no one knew how to pass until the 70's, but when you watch footage of players like Otto, Unitas, even Sammy Baugh before them and you'll see step backs, pump fakes, and perfect spirals on long bombs.
The difference really was that the average team was much less impressive, there was less talent numbers-wise to compete for positions, and a few teams would outspend the rest, but the peak players were still superb.
@To Release is To Resolve I know, modern players can only be modern because of the guys before them.
#16 is way too low.
DanielSong39 yesss
For living over a decade in Cleveland, Otto should be at least top 5.
jeffry hammel At least!!!
With the rules we have in place today Graham would even be better!!!
+jeffry hammel Number one of quarterbacks and top 5 in players.
What’s crazier is he also won an NBA championships with the Royals (now the Kings) lol
Otto Graham is one of the best Nfl Qbs in Nfl history.
The Best
He had some trickiness to his game.
These old school footballers were insane. Tough
To me the real Greatest One.
otto graham when to 10 straight championship aka superbowls if it count better than any steelers qb combine
lolz
at their worst, they still went to the championship
He won 7, not 3.
3-time NFL champion, 4-time AAFC champion. 7 time champion.
Better than any franchise's history foh
No way he is 16 on that list. He can absolutely play in todays game
I think Bart Starr and Otto Graham are the 2 greatest QBs ever.
I think Johnny Unitas takes both of them to school, and then Brees/Brady/Marino take Unitas to school.
@@kvltizt I think Unitas is the GoAT. An extra coach in the huddle who called his own plays, Unitas INVENTED the 2 minute drill. The man was physically and mentally tough and made ALL the throws. Show me where Brees/Brady/Marino block. Unitas regularly called a reverse that required him to block a LB. He loved the contact and there's film footage somewhere of him "pancaking" a LB.
To tell the truth, giving any of Baugh, Luckman, Graham, and Unitas access to today's training, nutrition, and sports medicine would result in shredded contemporary defenses, just like they did in their own time. "Cream rises!"
@@eliduttman315 You are right, I think. I still gotta go with Marino on pure arm talent or Manning for coaching a huddle.
Unitas changed the game though. He is why those guys existed. 👍
@JL-CptAtom Maybe I meant Eli Manming clutchly destroying the Pats in two out of two Super Bowl match ups? But seriously, Peyton Manning's ability to orchestrate is legendary and unquestionable. He was a second offensive coordinator more or less.
Otto should be in the hall of fame
A running back that Paul Brown turned into a quarterback. All I hear about these days is “ in the new NFL you need to have a dual threat quarterback.” I’m not sure there is anything new. Sounds like Otto Graham was the first dual threat quarterback.
I have always been a Cowboys fan, so Roger Staubach has always been my favorite. But I remember learning about Otto Graham and how many titles he won. Seven in 10 years. Wow! Maybe he is the best quarterback ever! It makes me wonder if that’s the reason Tom Brady is trying for number 8.
Tom Brady can't carry Otto's jockstrap!
anthbig although in the Super Bowl area. He is the most qualified lol
Actually when it comes to modern Terms Otto would have surpassed much more. In a era when QB's cant be touched Otto would have been called beast mode QB! Remember at the during the old school era you would take hits that would draw a 100000000 flags in today's game.
What do you expect, Tom Brady can't even catch a football, let alone hold a jock strap.
JSSTyger But he can win 6 rings.
@@RyanLBrown9396 and it looks like rhey may get another this season
THE G.O.A.T.
A 21st century QB playing in the mid 20th century. The forerunner of modern quarterbacking. Look at other films of the era, and it's striking how ahead of his time he was. As far as I'm concerned the GOAT is either him or Brady.
Does anyone know if Dabbs Greer was playing Paul Brown in the movie clip shown here?
I have an Otto Graham throwback it was 450 I had to have it
Otto graham is the best quarterback ever in history 🙌HANDS DOWN
🤣🤣🤣
Otto Graham was the best running QB to date
Otto Graham & Jim Brown are the only two players in pro football history to accomplish all of the following during their careers: (1) Play every game and lead their team to a winning record in each and every season of the career. (2) Average the equivalent of 1 TD (rush TD = 1 TD / TDP & TDR = 1/2 TD) per scheduled career game. (3) Finish their career with a career average of over 8.0 pass Y/A at QB or over 5.0 rush Y/A at RB. These achievements put both of them head & shoulders above all other players in pro football history. In case you are wondering, Tom Brady won't match any of the 3 accomplishments.
A fitting place. Some will disagree. Otto is the Bob Gainey in NHL terms. People forget how great.
The bill russell of football💯
Automatic Otto Graham is a winner one of if not the greatest underrated players ever period like let's be honest here
#GoBROWNS💪🐶🏈
Barry Sanders invented the juke. There will never be a twitchier more electrifying running back in our life time. Had he stuck around for another 2-3 seasons he would've put the career rushing record mark well out of reach of anyone for the next 100 years.
10 year career ... 10 straight Pro-Football Championship games (7-3). It took Tom Brady 21 years to do what Automatic Otto Graham did every year. ...
Brady is great thou
@@Johnjohn-dt6hw Yes, Brady was great! Definitely great! Brady is an Elite Hall of Fame QB! ... From Automatic Otto to Joe Montana, to all of the Terry Bradshaws, Jim Kellys, Dan Marinos, Bernie Kosars, Boomer Esiasons, etc., etc. in between.
If he played in the NFL today he’d be the best QB of all time and i very much believe that
🤣🤣🤣
@@JCYTTV you're laughing but he'd have access to the nutrition and PEDs that everyone else is these days.
He'd definitely be starting quality.
@@yosefshekelberg5433 Not at all. The game was elementary back then compared to now.
@@JCYTTV You sound foolish, it's not brain surgery. Graham & Paul Brown created the modern T-formation QB position & the modern pro offense. They have only been copied ever since.
@@yosefshekelberg5433 Anyone with a brain would know he wouldn't stand a chance in today's league
Rip Don Shula
Otto Graham and Bobby Layne were the Tom Brady and Peyton Manning of their day.
Because he was in the pre-SB era when film was black & white and players were about 125lbs lighter on avg than today, he doesn't get the credit that he deserves. But it is Otto and not Elway or Montana to whom Tom Brady should be compared to. Otto has the #1 winning pct all time (depending on his record that year Brady is either #2 or #3 all time flipping spots with Larmonica). And 10 title games with 7 wins in 10 seasons (admittedly in a smaller NFL and lesser quality AAFC) is the ultimate Bill Russell-like football record (I think Brady's 13 AFC East wins 10 AFC Conf Champ Game appearances and 6 SB appearances in 14 seasons in a much bigger league is the modern comparable).
And just like Bill Russell, he is eternally overrated for this despite everyone knowing in their hearts the competition back then was nothing compared to now. Imagine putting an All Pro Defensive team against an All Pro Offense from back then. The offense would quite literally get run over, throw around, battered and demolished.
bjdon99 125lbs lighter? Really didn't know women played the game back then.... 0_o
Lets not forget that the tackling was much crazier less rules and so on. Modern QB's are super protected. Not that they dont take a lick here and there. But when they do look at what happens. Out of the game for a bit. Otto himself was 190 something, and compared to today most QB's are 10+ more if that.
I remember a call on Ahmad Brooks (Niner LB at the time) for roughing the passer (Drew Brees) it was such a BS call for a normal tackle. But whatever floats everyones boats.
Heck go back and watch interviews from players from back then. Talk about the passing window being inches compared to todays passing windows.
Back when the Browns were lit.
Don Shula
So I guess there were cameos back in the 50's too. Lol
So Don, was Graham or Marino better?