Next Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/saqR81MMRa4/v-deo.html (Gul'dan Summons Archimonde) First Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/TGBgeOkkrEY/v-deo.html (Into the Dark Portal) Previous Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/1decHtYDO2s/v-deo.html (Blackhand - Talador Ending) Previous Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/dC-t-6_GrvE/v-deo.html (Alliance & Horde Endings) Hey everyone. Warlords of Draenor turned 10 years old only a few weeks ago. For those who played it when it was current like myself, you will remember the unparalleled beauty of its zones, mystical and ethereal soundtrack and best quest experience ever brought by an expansion at launch. This could have been the GREATEST expansion, if it had been finished. To this day we mourn the loss of content like Farahlon, the Ogre Continent and Island, along with many questlines. This is a tribute to the spectacle that it was, and the masterpiece it could have been!
I want to pin point that Garrosh downfall is bit double sided. Garrosh indeed said that he is not ready to be Warchief and Thrall promised his advisor will help. But it was Garrosh who rise walls between him and others. He choose not to listen to anyone since he is Warchief. We seen him in cataclysm as he was doing plans after plans despite his advisor were advising him not to. On top of that he seemed to like push blame on them when he was unsuccessful. It really seemed that he was doing what he wanted and wanted from his advisors to say "Yes, sir". And since he wasn't hearing it, he essential started replacing them with grunts that could said it. Changing regime in process.
I liked Garrosh in Cataclysm and his story in Nagrand when Thrall found him. A true legacy, son of the great Grommash wielding gorehowl, a little angry but honorable like at Stonetalon. He should’ve stayed in that path not the monster he was written as in MoP.
@@AthelariusThe Stonetalon plot was the exception, not the rule. Think it was even written by a diffrent writer than the one who wrote most of Garroshs' story. He was always an overly aggressive hothead, even during Wotlk in Northrend, before he was even made Warchief.
As an orc, being hot headed and rash is their nature. Thrall is probably the chillest orc we know and he has his moments. However, Garrosh was never genocidal or evil at first. He valued honor, he condemned the slaughter of innocent druids at Stonetalon, he told Kromgar he’s not a murderer and he condemned sylvanas for raising humans. He was intended to be good before they needed a villain for MoP and catalyst for WoD.
@@Athelarius He wasn't the moustache twirling villain that he became in MoP, but the seeds were there. Aside from the Stonetalon chain - which was, again, an anomaly - he was brash and aggressive to the extreme both as Overlord of the Warsong Offensive in Northrend and as Warchief. He clamored for war with the Alliance - and would have attacked them in Borean Tundra if Saurfang hadn't reigned him in - attacked Varian in Dalaran, mouthed off to Tirion etc. And as Warchief during Cata he was pretty much the same, antagonizing literally every other Horde leader - Vol'jin, Sylvannas, Lothremar, Gallywix and Baine - and making dumb strategic decisions. Garrosh had big shoulderpads to fill, both with his father and Thrall, and he tried too hard. And then he went off the rails entirely.
i still miss Garrosh they done him dirty at the end especially in SL. now i dont know "if" in that alternate timeline in draenor how further they go and we might get a chance to see him once again and if Yrel with her n4zi light army somehow managed to break the matrix and getting into the main universe.
He was the war chief the Horde needed. He didn’t need to go down the whole war crazy killing arc in MoP. He had a great legacy, he couldve continued to learn like he did in Stonetalon and be a good orc warchief, not whatever we have now
@@Athelarius Apparently that scene in Stonetalon wasn't even supposed to be used and was because of miscommunication since the devs were scattered working on different parts. Like, the Garrosh in Stonetalon and the Garrosh in Silverpine are very different.
The scene I wanted to see in Shadowlands: Thrall runs into Grommash. Grommash says, "So ... I hear you fried my boy with lightning. Want to explain why?"
@@MrTmac9k "Ok brother idk where to start. He bombed a neutral city, corrupted what was considered a holy place in his search for power and even let an Old God become part of him. Then he decided to mess with time and go to an Alternate universe where he dooped you and our people into a pointless war trying to invade the very planet you and I fought to protect. So in the end I ended up putting him down. Also it's partially his fault we could be invaded any time soon by a bunch of zealot goats who also enslaved our people... Apart from your alternate son who willingly joined them." Grom: "Ah, gotcha".
@@killerking1966 speculated, but only insofar that he's the son of Grom Hellscream. His mother is an entirely different orc and he would have been born decades after MU Garrosh was born.
@DominionSorcerer I have a theory that alternate Golka survived and took a different name so Grom couldn't recognize her, since I think the shadowy figure from the WoD alpha, often speculated to be either alternate Medivh or somebody else, was meant to be a death knight
@@killerking1966 alternate Medivh wouldn't be in the picture yet, there's no alternate death knights and, well. We kind of saw her die given that she was mortally wounded and left for dead. Even then, there's no way Grom wouldn't recognise his mate.
@DominionSorcerer Remember the shadowy figure from the WoD beta who appeared as a cameo talking to Gul'dan, Giselda, Cho'gall and Teron'gor? It was speculated by some it was Medivh, others thought it was someone else, and about alternate Medivh, some think he appears in the novel where Thrall is the main character and Krasus/Korialstrasz dies, and as for death knights from alternate universe, the Draenor's Blood Horde group from the Island expeditions has a death knight member, but it's currently disputed whether he is from the main Draenor/Outland or the alternate Draenor
All the Garrosh fans are salty. Garrosh lost because he wasn’t good enough to beat Thrall, simple as that. If he was a better warrior he would’ve won. Also, it’s shitty blizzard writing. What do you expect?
@Athelarius But the only known void lord is Dimensius, I think he was talking about an old god, since main universe Cho'gall was also known for serving the Old Gods
@@Athelarius Some members of the Twilight's Hammer clan have alternate counterparts in Draenor, which means the clan was wiped out, similar to the Dragonmaw clan and other clans
Ah yes, this misconception that always occurs and people not reading what Mak'gora actually entails. Traditionally, the old ways were followed (during Cairne and Garrosh's duel) which only allowed a single weapon that was blessed by a shaman [although in Garrosh's case, Magatha Grimtotem poisoned Gorehowl, cheating Garrosh of a true victory], no armour or clothing except a loincloth was allowed, and was witnessed by one participant on each side, but there has never been a absolutely defined rule in the modern eras. It is also worth noting that the Warcraft film is considered an alternate universe, and the scene where some of the orcs claimed Gul'dan cheated, is not considered official WoW canon. A few quotes from the sources of the WoWPedia: - The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. There are only two consistent themes in all Mak'gora: once dropped, a weapon cannot be retrieved by either opponent and that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden, and has, in fact, been used in multiple Mak'gora duels and thus seems to be permitted. Similarly, many Mak'gora duels have involved both fighters wearing body armor as well, but it can also be forbidden when explicitly required. - A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is a precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra [from the Bloodsworn comics] made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.
Garrosh get what he deserved, all of his actions, all of his ambitions, leads him to his demise I believe in second chances, but he was the kind that wouldnt change, would do all his mistakes again and again just because he believed it was the right thing, but no, he was full of hatred, remorse, because he truly wanted to help the horde from the burning legion, he just needed to stop manoroth as we saw in the cinematic of WoD and just there, not and invasion to Azeroth, he invaded because he wanted to destroy everyone who crossed in his way He wasnt a leader, he wasnt a warchief, he was just a formidable warrior, but just that
@@keikaider No he didn't. There's traditional which Garrosh and Cairne participated in, and the modern which Garrosh and Thrall engaged in twice. There has never been a rule against using magic in either, stop taking the Movie as canon for WoW.
@@keikaider "Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden". Nice try though. And no, the Warcraft movie is completely separate from WoW canon.
@@keikaider the movie is set in an entirely different canon universe, like you can just see as much by watching the movie. In the game's canon Orgrim isn't part of the Frostwolf Clan, Anduin Lothar is a white haired, balding old man instead of Ragnar Lothbrok Warcraft Edition, all of the Frostwolves are green skinned, Gul'dan isn't the only warlock and he's got the entire Shadow Council with him along with warlocks in every clan, Kargath and Grom were forced to stay on Draenor. Blackhand didn't die fighting Anduin, but Orgrim killed him to claim the position of Warchief. Garona is also the half-human daughter of Medivh as opposed to a half-draenei. Dalaran is already a floating city. Oh, and the First War doesn't end with Stormwind battling the Horde at the Dark Portal, Llane sacrificing himself to give Garona a chance of working against the Horde from within and the Alliance being formed to honour him. It kind of ended with Stormwind's defeat, the city in ruins, Llane being assassinated by Garona and the survivors fleeing north to Lordaeron. These are just some of the major differences seen in the movie itself, there's a whole slew of different changes in the movie's expanded universe via books - here's a quick example, instead of worshipping Hakkar, the Gurubashi start wielding fel magic when they attack Storwmind in the Gurubashi War.
Cheated or no. He lost a lot of respect for not going mano y mano. Hard to believe thrall has the moral high ground here when even he is not willing to fight garrosh on his own terms.
@@DominionSorcerer Probably because that first Mak'gora was done during the Scourge Invasion pre-WotLK event and wasn't a cutscene or part of a major novel - easy to forget that given the vast differences.
@@AspieRider how's that easy to forget? If this was an actual problem Blizzard had plenty of opportunities to actually show it. But they haven't, because it's just not an issue.
@@DominionSorcerer Cognitively speaking, one received full-blown cutscene treatment and was a major part of the overall storyline of a major expansion, the other was simply a side moment that was not the main focus at the time (effectively overshadowed by the Scourge invasion event). You also have the influence of a completely separate canon from the Warcraft film and the "Gul'dan cheated" quote that would also dominate general Mak'gora conversations. Which of those two do you think most lore-casual people are more likely to recall off the top of their heads? An official novel, cinematic cutscene and a film scene, or an off-shoot moment that was not entirely related to the main event? Which of those two do you think is going to be on top of the algorithms when people search for Thrall Vs Garrosh Mak'gora? The one with the cinematic cutscene, or the one without? Availability bias, recency bias and the misinformation effect tends to dominate in these kinds of things. Just some food for thought. Going to switch off notifications, have a good day!
Traditionally, the old ways were followed (during Cairne and Garrosh's duel) which only allowed a single weapon that was blessed by a shaman [although in Garrosh's case, Magatha Grimtotem poisoned Gorehowl, cheating Garrosh of a true victory], no armour or clothing except a loincloth was allowed, and was witnessed by one participant on each side, but there has never been a absolutely defined rule in the modern era. It is also worth noting that the Warcraft film is considered an alternate universe, and the scene where some of the orcs claimed Gul'dan cheated, is not considered official WoW canon. A few quotes from the sources of the WoWPedia: - The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. There are only two consistent themes in all Mak'gora: once dropped, a weapon cannot be retrieved by either opponent and that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden, and has, in fact, been used in multiple Mak'gora duels and thus seems to be permitted. Similarly, many Mak'gora duels have involved both fighters wearing body armor as well, but it can also be forbidden when explicitly required. - A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is a precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra [from the Bloodsworn comics] made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.
![Gul’dan Summons Archimonde Cinematic - Hellfire Citadel & Kilrogg’s Betrayal [WoW Lore part 6]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/saqR81MMRa4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Gul’dan Summons Archimonde Cinematic - Hellfire Citadel & Kilrogg’s Betrayal [WoW Lore part 6]](/img/tr.png)
![Khadgar Burns Blackhand Cinematic: Battle of Shattrath - Talador Ending [WoW Lore Part 4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1decHtYDO2s/mqdefault.jpg)
Next Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/saqR81MMRa4/v-deo.html (Gul'dan Summons Archimonde)
First Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/TGBgeOkkrEY/v-deo.html (Into the Dark Portal)
Previous Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/1decHtYDO2s/v-deo.html (Blackhand - Talador Ending)
Previous Chapter: ua-cam.com/video/dC-t-6_GrvE/v-deo.html (Alliance & Horde Endings)
Hey everyone. Warlords of Draenor turned 10 years old only a few weeks ago. For those who played it when it was current like myself, you will remember the unparalleled beauty of its zones, mystical and ethereal soundtrack and best quest experience ever brought by an expansion at launch. This could have been the GREATEST expansion, if it had been finished. To this day we mourn the loss of content like Farahlon, the Ogre Continent and Island, along with many questlines. This is a tribute to the spectacle that it was, and the masterpiece it could have been!
Garrosh: YOU MADE ME WARCHIEF! YOU'VE LEFT ME TO PICK UP YOUR PIECES! YOU FAILED ME!
Me: So basically, every manager at a job.
I want to pin point that Garrosh downfall is bit double sided. Garrosh indeed said that he is not ready to be Warchief and Thrall promised his advisor will help. But it was Garrosh who rise walls between him and others. He choose not to listen to anyone since he is Warchief. We seen him in cataclysm as he was doing plans after plans despite his advisor were advising him not to. On top of that he seemed to like push blame on them when he was unsuccessful. It really seemed that he was doing what he wanted and wanted from his advisors to say "Yes, sir". And since he wasn't hearing it, he essential started replacing them with grunts that could said it. Changing regime in process.
I liked Garrosh in Cataclysm and his story in Nagrand when Thrall found him. A true legacy, son of the great Grommash wielding gorehowl, a little angry but honorable like at Stonetalon. He should’ve stayed in that path not the monster he was written as in MoP.
@@AthelariusThe Stonetalon plot was the exception, not the rule. Think it was even written by a diffrent writer than the one who wrote most of Garroshs' story. He was always an overly aggressive hothead, even during Wotlk in Northrend, before he was even made Warchief.
As an orc, being hot headed and rash is their nature. Thrall is probably the chillest orc we know and he has his moments. However, Garrosh was never genocidal or evil at first. He valued honor, he condemned the slaughter of innocent druids at Stonetalon, he told Kromgar he’s not a murderer and he condemned sylvanas for raising humans. He was intended to be good before they needed a villain for MoP and catalyst for WoD.
@@Athelarius He wasn't the moustache twirling villain that he became in MoP, but the seeds were there. Aside from the Stonetalon chain - which was, again, an anomaly - he was brash and aggressive to the extreme both as Overlord of the Warsong Offensive in Northrend and as Warchief. He clamored for war with the Alliance - and would have attacked them in Borean Tundra if Saurfang hadn't reigned him in - attacked Varian in Dalaran, mouthed off to Tirion etc. And as Warchief during Cata he was pretty much the same, antagonizing literally every other Horde leader - Vol'jin, Sylvannas, Lothremar, Gallywix and Baine - and making dumb strategic decisions.
Garrosh had big shoulderpads to fill, both with his father and Thrall, and he tried too hard. And then he went off the rails entirely.
i still miss Garrosh they done him dirty at the end especially in SL.
now i dont know "if" in that alternate timeline in draenor how further they go and we might get a chance to see him once again and if Yrel with her n4zi light army somehow managed to break the matrix and getting into the main universe.
@@mireiyu6623 Hate to break it to you but Exarch Hellscream isn't alternate Garrosh. Just like how Geya'rah isn't alternate Thrall.
He was the war chief the Horde needed. He didn’t need to go down the whole war crazy killing arc in MoP. He had a great legacy, he couldve continued to learn like he did in Stonetalon and be a good orc warchief, not whatever we have now
@@Athelarius Apparently that scene in Stonetalon wasn't even supposed to be used and was because of miscommunication since the devs were scattered working on different parts. Like, the Garrosh in Stonetalon and the Garrosh in Silverpine are very different.
The scene I wanted to see in Shadowlands: Thrall runs into Grommash. Grommash says, "So ... I hear you fried my boy with lightning. Want to explain why?"
Then he explains the whole story and Grommash replies "Understandable, have a good day."
@@MrTmac9k "Ok brother idk where to start. He bombed a neutral city, corrupted what was considered a holy place in his search for power and even let an Old God become part of him. Then he decided to mess with time and go to an Alternate universe where he dooped you and our people into a pointless war trying to invade the very planet you and I fought to protect. So in the end I ended up putting him down. Also it's partially his fault we could be invaded any time soon by a bunch of zealot goats who also enslaved our people... Apart from your alternate son who willingly joined them."
Grom: "Ah, gotcha".
Thrall: “Well you see angry orc man had to die but grey elf lady gets redemption and does dailies in the maw.”
Grommash: “where’s my axe”
Imagine if Thrall met a younger and Alternate Garrosh Hellscream.
Exarch Hellscream is speculated to be Garrosh's alternate counterpart
@@killerking1966 speculated, but only insofar that he's the son of Grom Hellscream. His mother is an entirely different orc and he would have been born decades after MU Garrosh was born.
@DominionSorcerer I have a theory that alternate Golka survived and took a different name so Grom couldn't recognize her, since I think the shadowy figure from the WoD alpha, often speculated to be either alternate Medivh or somebody else, was meant to be a death knight
@@killerking1966 alternate Medivh wouldn't be in the picture yet, there's no alternate death knights and, well. We kind of saw her die given that she was mortally wounded and left for dead.
Even then, there's no way Grom wouldn't recognise his mate.
@DominionSorcerer Remember the shadowy figure from the WoD beta who appeared as a cameo talking to Gul'dan, Giselda, Cho'gall and Teron'gor? It was speculated by some it was Medivh, others thought it was someone else, and about alternate Medivh, some think he appears in the novel where Thrall is the main character and Krasus/Korialstrasz dies, and as for death knights from alternate universe, the Draenor's Blood Horde group from the Island expeditions has a death knight member, but it's currently disputed whether he is from the main Draenor/Outland or the alternate Draenor
Warlords of Draenor could've been avoided if Varian let Thrall kill Garrosh in Pandaria.
This was still Wrathion's idea though. He was going to amass an army to defeat the Legion one way or another.
Kairoz, the bronze dragon that set Garrosh free and went back to Draenor intended to amass many horde armies to fight the legion
The amount of people here who openly state false facts about WoW lore because they watched the movie is hilarious.
All the Garrosh fans are salty. Garrosh lost because he wasn’t good enough to beat Thrall, simple as that. If he was a better warrior he would’ve won. Also, it’s shitty blizzard writing. What do you expect?
It was left unclear the identity of the master alternate Cho'gall mentioned in his fight at Highmaul
It seems to be the void lords, since that’s the magic Cho’gall was using, and he turned the naaru at Oshugun to the void
@Athelarius But the only known void lord is Dimensius, I think he was talking about an old god, since main universe Cho'gall was also known for serving the Old Gods
@@killerking1966 He wasn't aware of the Old Gods at that point though
@JayR-t8r But he worshipped C'Thun either way
@@Athelarius Some members of the Twilight's Hammer clan have alternate counterparts in Draenor, which means the clan was wiped out, similar to the Dragonmaw clan and other clans
Garrosh true hero
When the worst expansion was better than the current content
0:13 Garrosh!
Thrall? 🖕🏻
RIP TRUE WARCHIEF
they should make better cinematic for this fight scene
Thrall knew he couldn't take Garrosh on in a one on one brutal match. So he cheated using magic.
Why is that cheating? He’s a Sherman Sharman use the element. Garrosh is a warrior. How is that cheating?
Magic isn't cheating in mak'gora.
Ah yes, this misconception that always occurs and people not reading what Mak'gora actually entails.
Traditionally, the old ways were followed (during Cairne and Garrosh's duel) which only allowed a single weapon that was blessed by a shaman [although in Garrosh's case, Magatha Grimtotem poisoned Gorehowl, cheating Garrosh of a true victory], no armour or clothing except a loincloth was allowed, and was witnessed by one participant on each side, but there has never been a absolutely defined rule in the modern eras. It is also worth noting that the Warcraft film is considered an alternate universe, and the scene where some of the orcs claimed Gul'dan cheated, is not considered official WoW canon.
A few quotes from the sources of the WoWPedia:
- The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. There are only two consistent themes in all Mak'gora: once dropped, a weapon cannot be retrieved by either opponent and that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden, and has, in fact, been used in multiple Mak'gora duels and thus seems to be permitted. Similarly, many Mak'gora duels have involved both fighters wearing body armor as well, but it can also be forbidden when explicitly required.
- A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is a precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra [from the Bloodsworn comics] made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.
Yeah he didn't cheat.
@@AspieRider Yeah, the Warcraft movie really created a lot of confusion about what a Mak'gora suppose to be.
R.I.P the true warchief of the horde.
blizzard wasted no time in wiping out the majority of potential in this shitty xpac
Garrosh get what he deserved, all of his actions, all of his ambitions, leads him to his demise
I believe in second chances, but he was the kind that wouldnt change, would do all his mistakes again and again just because he believed it was the right thing, but no, he was full of hatred, remorse, because he truly wanted to help the horde from the burning legion, he just needed to stop manoroth as we saw in the cinematic of WoD and just there, not and invasion to Azeroth, he invaded because he wanted to destroy everyone who crossed in his way
He wasnt a leader, he wasnt a warchief, he was just a formidable warrior, but just that
funniest part about this, its not a Mak'gora, Thrall cheated and used his powers. Mak'Gora's are strictly physical fighting
@@keikaider No he didn't. There's traditional which Garrosh and Cairne participated in, and the modern which Garrosh and Thrall engaged in twice. There has never been a rule against using magic in either, stop taking the Movie as canon for WoW.
@ pretty sure the movie is cannon home slice. And it’s on the wiki that states magic is not allowed
@@keikaider "Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden". Nice try though. And no, the Warcraft movie is completely separate from WoW canon.
@@keikaider the movie is set in an entirely different canon universe, like you can just see as much by watching the movie. In the game's canon Orgrim isn't part of the Frostwolf Clan, Anduin Lothar is a white haired, balding old man instead of Ragnar Lothbrok Warcraft Edition, all of the Frostwolves are green skinned, Gul'dan isn't the only warlock and he's got the entire Shadow Council with him along with warlocks in every clan, Kargath and Grom were forced to stay on Draenor. Blackhand didn't die fighting Anduin, but Orgrim killed him to claim the position of Warchief. Garona is also the half-human daughter of Medivh as opposed to a half-draenei. Dalaran is already a floating city.
Oh, and the First War doesn't end with Stormwind battling the Horde at the Dark Portal, Llane sacrificing himself to give Garona a chance of working against the Horde from within and the Alliance being formed to honour him. It kind of ended with Stormwind's defeat, the city in ruins, Llane being assassinated by Garona and the survivors fleeing north to Lordaeron.
These are just some of the major differences seen in the movie itself, there's a whole slew of different changes in the movie's expanded universe via books - here's a quick example, instead of worshipping Hakkar, the Gurubashi start wielding fel magic when they attack Storwmind in the Gurubashi War.
Should change title to Thrall cheats against Garrosh Mak'gora
@@Levvyy He didn't. Y'all need to do some actual research and learn there is no rules against magic in Mak'gora. Movie isn't canon to WoW.
Cheated or no. He lost a lot of respect for not going mano y mano. Hard to believe thrall has the moral high ground here when even he is not willing to fight garrosh on his own terms.
When did Garrosh ever explicitly state before the fight "Ok buddy no magic"?
Why did no one have this same issue when they fought their first Mak'gora in WotLK?
@@DominionSorcerer Probably because that first Mak'gora was done during the Scourge Invasion pre-WotLK event and wasn't a cutscene or part of a major novel - easy to forget that given the vast differences.
@@AspieRider how's that easy to forget? If this was an actual problem Blizzard had plenty of opportunities to actually show it. But they haven't, because it's just not an issue.
@@DominionSorcerer Cognitively speaking, one received full-blown cutscene treatment and was a major part of the overall storyline of a major expansion, the other was simply a side moment that was not the main focus at the time (effectively overshadowed by the Scourge invasion event). You also have the influence of a completely separate canon from the Warcraft film and the "Gul'dan cheated" quote that would also dominate general Mak'gora conversations.
Which of those two do you think most lore-casual people are more likely to recall off the top of their heads? An official novel, cinematic cutscene and a film scene, or an off-shoot moment that was not entirely related to the main event?
Which of those two do you think is going to be on top of the algorithms when people search for Thrall Vs Garrosh Mak'gora? The one with the cinematic cutscene, or the one without?
Availability bias, recency bias and the misinformation effect tends to dominate in these kinds of things. Just some food for thought. Going to switch off notifications, have a good day!
holy shit I'm early
Thrall cheated, i wish garrosh would have killed that anduin like orc peace of Sh…
Nope, he didn't cheat.
@ he did
@@waterbottle3081 He did not. Magic is not cheating in a mak'gora unless directly stated in the rules set by the combatants.
Traditionally, the old ways were followed (during Cairne and Garrosh's duel) which only allowed a single weapon that was blessed by a shaman [although in Garrosh's case, Magatha Grimtotem poisoned Gorehowl, cheating Garrosh of a true victory], no armour or clothing except a loincloth was allowed, and was witnessed by one participant on each side, but there has never been a absolutely defined rule in the modern era. It is also worth noting that the Warcraft film is considered an alternate universe, and the scene where some of the orcs claimed Gul'dan cheated, is not considered official WoW canon.
A few quotes from the sources of the WoWPedia:
- The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. There are only two consistent themes in all Mak'gora: once dropped, a weapon cannot be retrieved by either opponent and that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden, and has, in fact, been used in multiple Mak'gora duels and thus seems to be permitted. Similarly, many Mak'gora duels have involved both fighters wearing body armor as well, but it can also be forbidden when explicitly required.
- A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is a precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra [from the Bloodsworn comics] made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.