Robb's Will
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Carmine and discuss Robb's will and meander a bit into the hooded man of Winterfell and the murder of Little Walder Frey
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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
In hindsight you actually could say that Howland Reed is the best potrayed character from book to show. We gotta give them credit for never showing him guys
John R Yea but I didnt like that nuance
@John R Only in flashback though? Right? The same flashback he's "seen" in the books.
I'll be happy when I see him throwing a frog at Arthur Dayne, or whatever he did to save Ned's life back then
@@derfelkardan7369 What I bet he did was: he threw a net on Dawn and yanked it out of Arthur's hand.
@@derfelkardan7369 He morphed into a massive Bullfrog and ate him like a fly!
I refer to Howland Reed as "Checkov's Crannogman."
He's mentioned too often to not be important.
Precisely! He’s name dropped in every single book, there’s no way he doesn’t do anything narratively in the future
Blake Hunt what if that’s why his kids showed up? Their dad is dead but they don’t want anyone to know. What if the half hand is actually howland??
True - it'd be weird for him to be specifically mentioned at the tower of the hand and then binned as a character
Jourdan Sarpy why would Howland have joined the nights watch?
Luke Wiseman because he kept Ned’a secret. That’s an intense secret to have. And the wall is the best place to go if you don’t want the king to come after you. If that news ever got out and howland was at his castle, he could have out his family at risk. I don’t actually believe this theory. But it’s an interesting one to think that Howland is someone we already met.
Hooded Man is obviously Benjen Stark, taking time off from being Euron, Coldhands, and Daario.
Regarding Preston redoing his older videos, I'd love to see an updates on the Genetics of Dragons with the new info from Fire and Blood.
Don't forget the Hooded Man is Mance, Rhaegar, and Arthur Dayne.
I would love to rethink his theories now that we have some pretty good evidence through Fire and Blood!
I hope we get to see Howl's Moving Castle in Winds of Winter.
That’d be good
... I was thinking this comment.
It bothers me how little people fixate on asoiaf having a Howl that has a moving castle, and what a strange coincidence that is.
OMG!!! It took me sometime to understand!!! Howl - Howland Reed -> mind blown
They come in throwing killer plants n poison arrows on greywater watch
In Jon's POV chapters, he is occasionally haunted by a instance in which Robb commented that he could never be lord of Winterfell because he is a bastard. GRRM does not repeat & return to certain character reflections for nothing, there is a reason we (the reader) are being told repeatedly that this really bothers Jon. It is obvious that there is a build up taking place to who is going to inherit Winterfell later on, & its importance is based on the "always has to be a Stark in Winterfell" epithet that has something to do with the Others & the Long Night. Jon also dreams the crypts in which the old kings of winter tell him he does not belong there, clearly hinting that Winterfell should not become Jon's seat. This is all the more reason to think that Rob did name Jon in his will, because there has to be a muddying of the waters for the drama to intensify.
Yeah you're half right. We are constantly reminded that Jon believes he is a bastard.... but he isn't. Cat hated him, because he is Ned's oldest child and the true heir to winterfell. Robb and the others are the bastards. Jon is Ashara and Ned's son. They were married at the wolf's den... which was built centuries before by Jon Stark. Ned being forced to divorce Ashara and marry cat is why the blackish stormed out.
@@Namaste19. Ned was already married to Cat, he can't just marry Ashara. Also GRRM confirmed R+L=J so
@@nikolaytsankov9066 he didn't confirm it. And Ned married Ashara on his way back to winterfell to call the banners. He then went south and married cat. Probably married Ashara in front of a weirwood
@@Namaste19. he confirmed that L= J at least
@@daigustosanti except he absolutely didn't.
The only reason I can see Big Walder (whos 9) leading the Frey army, is if he's the last surviving male Frey in the North.
We know Big Walder is obsessed with becoming Lord of the Twins.
What if Big Walder uses his new authority to switch sides to Stannis's army?
He's something like 40th in the line of succession?
The only way he's becoming Lord of the Crossing is if he takes the twins by force, and has a king legitamize him.
So ends my conspiracy theory.
Well, Arya only thinks he is leading the army. She may be mistaken. Hosteen should be leading.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin that would probably make more sense.
Though I would find it incredibly funny if after all of the Freys treachery, they're brought down from within by a 9 year old boy.
@@MexicanSasquatch02 He does parallel Barristan the Bold at the Battle of Fire.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I know you know it but it's asha not Arya.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin We hear that Aenys is killed in the Theon sample chapter, so Big Walder and Hosteen are the only other Freys in the North at this point. Hosteen "lost a horse" in the same incident that killed Aenys, it wouldn't be a stretch to think he may have been injured and is now incapable of leading the Frey forces, which would leave Big Walder in charge. We also have a recurring theme of stupid characters refusing medical attention, causing their wounds to worsen (Victarion and Drogo).
The problem with naming Catelyn is that her own successors would be the same as Robb's. So the North would have a succession problem nonetheless. Besides, giving what happened to Lady Hornwood, Robb should be hesitant to leave his single mother as heir to Winterfell.
He COULD have named her a husband but I would say is a jump to assume Robb treats Catelyn as Tywin treats Cersei. And if Catelyn DOES marry this person, would a child of this marriage be considered a Stark even without any of the ancestral Stark blood?
Naming Catelyn yields in a future problem of succession nonetheless. Jon have to be legitimized and named heir. It wouldn't be against his personality to accept it because he denied Stannis based on the requirement of him abandoning the Old Gods to assume his Night's Watch oath was invalid. If he has a legitimate reason the get Winterfell, he will take it.
But Jon makes no sense as King of the Trident, which is one of the main arguments for Queen Cat, since she's pretty much the only one who would be able to maintain the North-Riverlands alliance.
The other solution, as someone else commented elsewhere, is to have them marry so that Jon is accepted by the Riverlords. :P
But, now that I think about it, one possible serious solution would be to have Jon marry a Riverlander. Although I'm not sure who it could be: there is no Tully girl, a Bracken and a Blackwood are out of the question, I don't think Patrek Mallister has a sister, and I don't recall anyone else? Maybe some Vance girl?
She can get married again....
@@juanpablomina1346 "there must always be a Stark on Winterfell" this line is beaten to death in the first books (maybe GRRM kinda forgot in all this mess). Now who is more Stark: Ned's bastard son (as far as Robb knows) or a Tully-Whent girl? The hesitation to confirm Jon is either a red hering or a sign that GRRM lost the plot...
Preston, i was skeptical of your catelyn theory but when rereading i saw this gem:
"I want my mother elsewhere. If you keep all your treasures in one purse, you only make it easier for those who would rob you"
when deciding to send her to seagard; i think from the context this is evidence catelyn was named
But when did he say that? After signing the will or before it?
This was said way before the will conversation
Exactly my thoughs upon the first reread having watched thid podcast
he wanted cat gone a long time before that. she was annoying af and basically installed herself as a war counselor so she could make more bad decisions. making bad decisions is cat's super power
The trap, to me, is obviously that robb presented his decision before his “court” so that cat couldn’t oppose him in any way. She keeps talking about his kingliness and how he had played everything in a very politically efficient way. I’m not pro-jon by the way I just don’t see any other option given what we know. I just don’t think catelyn was named heir, it’s just a very unlikely choice in my mind.
How can you not be pro jon?
Dakota Clark what I meant to say was that I’m not the type of reader who is looking under every stone for jon snow to be the ultimate hero of the story. In my humble opinion there are so many characters for a reason, so the decisive points may not all be linked to jon. After all the dragon does have 3 heads does it not?
I actually like Jon though he is flawed just as the rest, my point being that I just don’t think that every single clue points to him.
In this case, however, I do believe that Jon is the one named as Robb’s heir.
@@kqwentin completely agree with you on that. There isn't just one hero of the story. Jon isn't even a head of the dragon. He is a true born Stark/Dayne. So I think he becomes the Sword of the Morning. I'm convinced the heads of the dragon are Dany, Tyrion, and Young Griff.
Catelyn also makes no sense, since then he'd bet on Arya resurfacing//annulment/Tyrion dying. What would otherwise be the plan for the next generation? Making such a short-sighted will seems just off. Cat as a guardian and a push for the independent North to just don't give a f* about a Faith of the Seven wedding seems the only possibility, but then, Sansa is still with the Lannisters and the Riverlands might be lost.
@@matt_9112 A bit late but one should remember several things. Both that at that point in time Robb is consistently acting extremely short sited and Cat remarks that everyone somewhat acts more on how they are currently feeling, with this overwhelming dread upon them from various developments. There isn't really much plan left about long term strategy. Even such shattering news as Euron returning, a man who they remark might be a warlorck and a monster, is just taken as an indication that they can march back up North, with all remaining Ironborn occupation just brushed off. So for that point in time such a weird decision could somewhat fit? Considering that the entire succession debate is also spurred by what is seemingly on the fly decision made at Oldstones.
It should also be noted that Catelyn isn't that old yet (35 when she dies during Red Wedding) and herself remarks during A Game of Thrones, that she does desire and expect to be able to have another child. Similarly Tywin thinks Cercei can also have children.
Finally it's extremely strange that Jon is not informed of such a development of all if he is the King in waiting. Especially considering if Robb anulled his being in Night's Watch. No ravens are sent, no men or important figures are asked to go fetch him. All while Robb is planning this huge and extremely complex military operation. And the examples that Robb provides for dismissal from an oath sworn till death are not "if this condition is fulfilled". Finally wouldn't it be even worse if Jon is only fetched after Robb dies because this is a man who would have 0 clue about the position of the North and RIverlands in the war if fetched and wouldn't even be there to lead, with there being potentially months before he can be retrieved to take his place.
Legitimize Job on the condition that he marry Catelyn to preserve the Stark-Tully alliance.
Now that would have been interesting.
inb4 "I don't wan et"
Oh damn, that would be next level fucked up.
Thats some theory very likely because people talk about Cat remarrying
Well, now it would be zombie marriage lol.
Carmine: "You should update the Dornish master plan"
Dude Preston literally made a 12 video-long update years ago... and you guys discussed that theory for an entire episode of the podcast!
I mean sure it's been 4 years but nothing new has really come up in those years so I don't think there's any merit to yet another series...
Instead I think you should do a similar podcast-long discussion about Preston's War of the Raven/Night's Watch stuff, because I do enjoy the format of Preston presenting his theory to Carmine, him asking questions and Preston sort of making his case that there is more to the story than we think we know.
Looking forward to more, you guys!
That sounds like a good idea.
me: Years ago? It has to be revisited with the new book- wait. Oh yeah. Right...
Good idea!!!
N00dleMeister I think he could use the same videos and add in notes to what he wants to revise. A much easier option (that I would LOVE) is to make one video with all revised notations.
@@calin6327 There is a new book: Fire & Blood :)
Howland Reed sends his children/heirs to join Bran in Winterfell and train greensight, though.
Yeah that's much better than an actual military force
@@wisdommanari6701 You could argue an a crannogmen army wouldn't be too helpful. They're trained in guerrilla warfare and skirmishing hidden in the swamps of the neck. On an open field with their more diminutive stature, they may not be good line infantry at all.
@@hi030405 Also, they were tasked - together with the garrison of Moat Cailin, with holding the neck. I think it makes more sense to leave them where they are, doing what they are.
People always get super butt hurt when you bring up, that Jon may not be the heir in Robbs will.
Benjen would make more sense
@@atronachh Benjen is missing since before they last heard of Arya. If she is considered dead, so must he.
Queen in the North!!!
People get even more butthurt when you remind them that Jon is true heir to winterfell regardless of what is in Robb's will. Jon is the first true born son of Ned Stark.c
@@Namaste19. How is Jon the first trueborn? It could be, but it is not confirmed
Love the idea that Theon could be the hooded killer - he's got 2 personalities already...
Theon turncloak? More like Theon TWOcloak
Nah theons basically the physical embodiment of an old king of winter... No way he's strong enough to kill people
Re: discussion of Howland Reed being an ass from 9:10 onwards
I believe Howland Reed is doing his best by Ned - by trying to find the only issue of his blood who is in the south, (and who is known to be alive) in order to protect her and to bring her back North. We have been misdirected that a certain hedge knight - small and boyish and yet noticeably a man grown, experienced and dangerous - is plotting to bring Sansa back to Queen Cersei. But I am fairly confident that Shadrich the mad mouse (who does not joust) is in fact Howland Reed.
Just to add a bit more, Shadrich the Mad Mouse is very small. He is old. He does not joust. He takes for a sygil a harmless small animal, and he is mentioned in the sample chapter - which makes much of hair dye - as having an exuberant and noticeable hair colour (a shock of red hair). We don't know Howland's hair colour but I assume it is not ginger.
I've actually looked this up in the last couple of days and I'm not the only one who came to this view after reading the sample chapter.
You can speculate about whether Howland Reed is going after Sansa only because of his loyalty to Ned but also whether Robb has in fact named her his heir, perhaps in the same instrument also dissolving and vitiating her marriage to the Imp, and disregarding for the purpose of inheritance any issue of that union. He might instruct Howland and his lordlings to liberate Sansa, and for her to take a Northman for a husband in order to continue the Stark line. But that is pure speculation
Sorry for the long comments. I don't really post my thoughts anywhere and it all came out at once :)
I like your outside the box thinking.
That's a great theory and I will surely look for some clues while re-reading the books.
@@legaldinho insightful bro 👊
I like this theory a lot too but Robb doesn’t have the power to absolve her marriage does he? I thought only the high septon can do that? I could be wrong, I suppose it would make sense if a king could do it
@@clixiedust Well I think the obvious heir to name is Jon, I think the next most likely possibility is Preston's suggestion that it's Catelyn (but that she must marry a Northman), and my theory is a bit out there. But to answer your point, as King in the North the high septon in old town is neither here nor there. Sansa must wed before the Old Gods of the North, not the seven. Her wedding to Tyrion is a sham and nullity, and any issue of that union are bastards. The role of the Septon was established by precedent in the South, and that principle's surviving force is tied to Maegor's defeat.
Just to add to my theory a bit - we have precedent for Kings and Lords offering their daughter's hand as a reward. Karstark offers the hand of his daughter and presumed heir to anyone who brings him the Kingslayer's head. He is motivating people to bring him revenge by offering his heirship. Or at least, coming into the line of inheritance.
My speculation is a hardened Robb is naming naming Sansa as his heir and saying the Northman who liberates her from her sham marriage shall have her hand.
But I am just speculating here. The main thing I feel strongly about is that Shadrich the Mad Mouse is Howland Reed in disguise.
Carmine, have you even looked at Preston's channel? "Do you even have any playlists?" Seriously?
Preston doesn't care about certain UA-cam features and I've caught him skimping on certain things in regards to the platform, I figured he'd skimp on that too.
The trap Catelyn is talking about is her getting sent to Seaguard. Robb only brings this up in front of the other lords, so she can’t protest. That’s why it’s a trap.
That's not a trap. He can order her to Seaguard at any time.
He purposefully didn’t tell her about his plan to send her to Seaguard until he was in front of the other Lords, so she wouldn’t protest the decision. If he had ordered her prior she would have tried to talk him out of it. That’s why she feels trapped into accepting the order.
@@Bonkatsu12 But your argument rest on the idea that Cat is crap at talking Robb out of decisions.
No, I’m saying she is good at talking Robb out of decisions.
Robb knows his mother might try and weasel her way out of getting sent to Seaguard, so he waits to tell her when they’re in front of everyone. That way she can’t argue.
@@Bonkatsu12 Yep, because after he's announced it in front of the other lords, she's left with two options: 1) follow orders that she doesn't like or 2) countermand her son and weaken his position by showing that "he's controlled by his mother's apron strings" (not my opinion; it's how the Westerosi would see it). Since Family, Duty, Honor are so important to her, option 2 is off the table, and he knows it
lady stoneheart is almost certainly looking to crown Arya. when interrogating merrett frey the BWOB ask if he saw the hound with a little boy or girl at the red wedding. also she stations Gendry (someone who knows arya, and that she is alive.) at the inn at the crossroads, perhaps one of the more likely places for anyone to turn up in the riverlands. also the Inn is serving as an Orphanage, so there could be the off chance some person might drop her off there.
stoneheart is but she wouldn't agree with crowning jon. so she'd crown arya regardless of robb.
@@yungbratz561 yea she'd sooner die twice than kill Jon
@@yungbratz561 Oh Yeah! So Stoneheart probably knows Arya is alive! But, wait she could not crown Arya as Queen in the North. The world thinks Arya is married to Bolton - who would testify that Arya is the real Arya, even if Stoneheart could find Arya? THe northenr lords would not follow the dictats of a revenant, and they may not even realise she used to be Catelyn.
Was killing Robb Stark a stupid move by the Lannisters, Boltons and Freys? As a hostage they could have forced the northern lords into submission, they could even have made Roose lord paramount. Now the Boltons have it pretty rough holding everything together. Stannis is gathering allies and probably a base to strike the south. With Robb as a hostage the Manderlys and Mormonts would most likely have remained loyal, as they are big Stark supporters.
The northern lords would probably try to rescue their king in that case, which would arguably put the Boltons and the Freys in a worse position.
Tywin wanted to send a message of what happens to those to oppose the lannisters
@@pierosaywat And Jaime proved in AFFC that that strategy was bad, Jaime's diplomacy was superior to Tywin's viciousness.
@@dutchpangermanist5673 yea losing a hand and facing humiliation made Jaime wiser than Tywin imo
So long as there is a leader to rally around, people will continue fighting. Case in point the manderlys trying to get back Rickon.
Also you cannot hold onto a hostage like that indefinitely.
I think it’s very obvious that Robb names Jon heir and the trap is definitely sending her to Seagard. She says that it’s a “trap” because he kind of backs her into leaving his side, but she has been protesting leaving him since GOT when he tries to send her home to Winterfell. To me, it’s obvious that he doesn’t want her around but he’s in conflict because even though he’s winning all these battles, is named king, and has the respect of his vassals, he’s still a kid who doesn’t want to hurt mommy’s feelings.
Still not sure how this is a trap and how is doesn't hurt Cat's feelings. Robb can order Cat to Seaguard at any time. Who cares if he first announces it in front of other lords?
Preston Jacobs the trap is that she was coming up with excuses of why she shouldn’t leave him and he backs her into a corner and she can’t come up with anymore valid excuses of why she should remain with him. He is deliberately going out of his way to not overtly offend her. You’re right, he is king and even threatens her in the past with his ability to demand that she goes wherever he sends her. She even acknowledges that. But Catelyn is extremely self important and considers herself a war advisor, meanwhile Robb has been trying to send her packing for a while now. She undermines his authority over and over again but he can’t bring himself to be, what he considers, cruel to her by sending her away and probably does want his mother around because he does cry on her shoulder once or twice. And there is no way that he would make her heir. If she controls winterfell that means that her heir would be Edmure... Robb would never do that. He barely trusts Edmure as it is.
@@JB.27_ Agreed with everything except the last part. Why do u assume Robb doesn’t trust Edmure? He’s one of the few lords there to sign the will. Plus he’s his uncle.
@@fabioventura2984 he signs the will because she will eventually be lord paramount of the riverlands and the “south” (considering Robb’s kingdom would be the north). I’m not saying that he doesn’t trust him, as in he would betray Robb, but he doesn’t see him as someone to control his kingdom should he die. Robb doesn’t take him west, Robb basically tells him to stay put and do nothing. And by the time he is talking about the will Edmure has severely fucked up and foiled Robb’s plan to trap Tywin.
He will eventually...*
Perhaps Jon's legitimized rule of the North might not be needed for the Northerners...but would convince the Vale lords to take him seriously
I find it so odd how defensive the fandom is when it comes to Jon Snow. If you even suggest that he might not become the secret true king via inheriting Winterfell, they lose their minds. It’s like they NEED to have their traditional fantasy trope of the secret chosen one fulfilled
Dude if I was Lord Commander of the Nights Watch and my own men murdered me, fuck that, I’m not being in the Watch anymore.
I must have misremembered. I was one of those who thought he named Jon in the books. George's subtle wording strikes again 🕵🏾♂️
Me too. It's really easy to fall into these kinds of traps and mixing up fan speculation with what's actually in the books.
I liked that once in a while, Preston, knower of book things, stumbles a bit when Carmine says something like"does it matter, she's dead, as far as they know.." and he has to think for a second and wonder if the Tullys care about Cat's personal dislike for Jon if he is the heir and they hate the Lanisters
The Blackfish doesn't seem the type of person to throw away a sword because his niece didn't like how it was made. Pragmatic and stubborn to a fault. Also those two men sent to the wall probably are filled with shame related to Cat (because she tricked them into letting Jaime escape) and might not care as much what she would want as they once did. Same goes for Edmure. If Edmure, or the Blackfish told them to do something, they'd do it, especially at this point in the war.
I always thought the trap for Catelyn was this.
Robb’s Kingdom is of the North and Rivers.
Jon would get traded from the NW to the North as Robb stated.
Jon Stark now would marry the recently widowed Catelyn Stark formerly Tully. Jon is not biologically related to Catelyn so there’s no incest issues to worry about.
A child between the lady Stark/Tully and the bastard of Ned Stark (Atleast what that society believes to be true) who is now a Stark will be the true heir and what would keep the Kingdom of the North and Rivers strong and together.
A few mentions of Catelyn wanting more kids and still be young enough/fertile in the first book. Just my thoughts
Wtf
Oh Jesus, imagine that chapter if it happened...
ahhhhh. this makes sense and her hating/disliking jon makes parallel with cersei/and her sister hating their husbands
I hope you are joking lol
@@jovedo27 it makes sense or for jon to marry one of the stark girls sansa/arya. he was og supposed to marry the karstark girl. he marries catelyn if they cant have kids he might be able to marry one of them if the starks makes a trade deal with the iron throne/lannisters
Unprecedented Preston presence in the comments section.
Rob’s Will is one of the few things I think Preston has way overthought. The context is very clear, Jon is the heir and Kat feels helpless about it. Still love him tho :)
Their convo Literally ends like this: _Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice_ . The trap Kat refers to is Robb sending her away.
Then again, the Blackfish hates Jon. So idk if it matters all that much.
But the context isn't clear. GRRM specifically says its a mystery that hasn't been revealed.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin well if that’s the case I hope it comes up in Winds ✨
Over 37 minutes of pure joy. Thank you!
Well, Howland sent his two children (or two of his children) to take Bran to Bloodraven. That ain't nothing.
Last time I was this early Game of Thrones had good writing
Lol same
So never?
Lol
By the way wills (and trusts) work, one can name one or more heirs, and rank order their claims. One can inherit all, but if that one is dead, then the next in line can, etc.
With how many time Catlyn interfered with the plans of Rob and his men i have trouble thinking they'd trust her to boil an egg let alone protect Winterfell and the North. The woman is a nightmare!
northerners left: white harbor has most of their army and all their navy in reserve.
If Cat was named heir, then I imagine Jon would be named as Warden or Commander of the North’s Armies
I love how these podcasts start with one topic and then meander into a completely separate one, like a surprise topic, you never know what you're gonna get.
There's an interesting parallel here. Jon was probably the heir to the Iron Throne as well (unless he was a Targaryen bastard), but instead of him gaining the position as King there it was instead given to a distant relative of the Targaryens on the maternal line, the heir to Storms End. So in a way, Jon lost the chance to be King twice potentially with a very similar situation. This time it's on his mother's side with some people in the Vale, also connected via a maternal line becoming the heirs instead.
If Preston ever revises his old theories, he should definitely rename the Dornish theories as "The Dornish Re-mastered Plan"
"Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North". ASoS Ch.45 Catelyn PoV
Shouldn't this imply that Robb legitimised Jon as a Stark and his heir, instead of "some lordlings from the Vale who had never so much as set eyes on Winterfell?"
Works for The North.
Preston's point is that Jon has no connection with the other half of Robb's kingdom.
@@alanpennie8013 nothing other than Catelyn's kids inheriting the Kingship to North and Riverlands work for the Riverlords, but the only "presumed" living kid is married to a Lannister and MIA now. So they might approve of Robb's decision to name Jon as his heir, lords Tully and Mallister were in attendance. Ofc it's speculation, and we will get to know more in TWoW.
Robb is just bullshitting his mother or anyone who might be listening.
Robb and Theon were really close, Robb also would know of the miller's wife and her children, if anyone would be able to guess that Theon faked Rickon and Bran's death, it would be Robb. Also there could be secret messages between Maester Luwin and Robb. He taught Robb to read and write, Robb was always the heir, Luwin might have taught him some sort of way to communicate in secret. Robett Glover is in White Harbor, he's the one teaching Wex to read and write, his brother was one of the witnesses to the Will.
It's not to far a stretch to think that Robb would name his "dead" brothers as his heirs. It would explain why the witnesses are all missing in action because they're really out searching for Bran and Rickon.
Rufio DIES I mean, that’s quite a stretch. Part of me wants to side with you that even though Robb and Theon were close and I always found it hard to believe that Robb wouldn’t even question if Theon actually killed Bran and Rickon, but it’s their deaths that cause him to sleep with his wife and betray his oath to the Frey’s, and it’s theon’s movement that causes Robb to U-turn to plot to go back and reclaim the North. He loved and trusted Theon, but that sting of him not following through on simply proposing the Iron Borns join and return if not was enough, then add in him desserting Robb and taking Winterfell and whispers of Bran and Rickon being killed. He’s lost his father, a man of honour seen as untouchable by double crossing and lies, why wouldn’t he believe Theon could take his brothers and home from him?
Granted this is the same guy who struts back into the Twins and believes eating salt and bread will protect him from a notoriously known nasty family who he’s royally (*drumkit noise*) pissed off. It’s hard to say, but if he had any doubt Theon followed through I don’t think he would’ve sought comfort in a woman’s arms severing his army, he would’ve been in shock and denied it but we don’t see that so clearly he knew Cat was right to be hesitant to trust Theon or anyone for that matter. It’s too bad he doesn’t let that lesson sink in before heading to the Twins.
My question would be, wouldn’t Robb assume that Summer and Shaggydog would be seen killed or if surviving, taking a good chunk of Theons men out?
@@empac8631 eating salt and bread means you're protected under the guest right, which is as old as humanity itself in the story. Even the worst kind of person is expected to respect the ancient traditions, so Robb and his lords aren't at fault for trusting a lord to respect the ancient laws of hospitality. But other than that, you make a good point.
big fan of you guys for years now, makes me happy to see speculation still being fun to discuss
I think Catelyn might be the heir in practice, and symbolically, but I am not sure of the will, although the will would give the whole tale a sort of dramatic irony. Catelyn comes back as Lady Stoneheart a.k.a. Zombie-Cat. She then has Robb's crown in her hands, she's literally symbolically holding onto Robb's power to avenge him. She is also gotten out of the river by Nymeria/Arya while at the same time Arya is wishing that someone would kill all those involved with the Red Wedding. It's just as likely it was Arya's telepathy that raised Cat from the dead as much as it was Beric breathing on her. The interesting thing about the crown is, it is referenced by Mellissandre to Stannis, when she says that after the current usurpers die, others will rise, taking up the crowns of those who had fallen. That is pretty much explicitly making Cat the heir to Robb.
I always get intrigued with that part of Nymeria finding Cat's corpse just in time for the brotherhood to find it as well, and give it the "lord of light's fire" through the "kiss".
@@Jess-yo9rt For me it's a "both and" more than an "either or" situation. That is, I think it's Arya that sort of endows her with this vengeful spirit, even though Beric might be the one that de facto brings her back to life.
16:15. This is why Preston is so amazing & insightful. I was reading this yesterday, for the first time in a long time.
John has decided to marry Val and be the Lord of Winterfell on Stannis's Word. UNTIL, Ghost appears, and suddenly John decides he must turn Stannis down and stay in the watch. The Direwolf Ghost seems to appear, after a long absence, in order to influence this decision.
We all know who the real Queen in the North is: CHAD SUMMERCHILD!
No one else but Jon makes sense as Robb's choice to be his heir, naming his mother as heir would end the Stark line for good (as far he knows)
Cat can take the Stark name ie House Dustin
@@wisdommanari6701 there are two major faults in that theory there's no way in hell any Northern lords are going to allow her to rise to power in her current state, her body has severely decayed and she can't speak. Almost no one will want to marry her plus I highly doubt she can produce another heir (these are all probably things that will be thought of and discussed before its common knowledge that Bran, Rickon, Sansa, and Arya are still alive. At least with Jon his body will either be revived the same day he was put down or at the very least it'll be preserved in the ice cells.
I also think it was Catelyn who was named in the will.
Either way though, Lady Stoneheart has gone and collected Robb's crown and is likely also trying to get the will.
I do wonder if Robb’s will is in some way involved with George’s “new” twist. Would love this to be discussed!
You need to elaborate
@@sagebias2251 I second this. What does "new twist" mean? Source?
Sage Bias This is a simple search but here is Carmine discussing. I don’t think Preston has ever threw in his thoughts ua-cam.com/video/qvGluWcoSK8/v-deo.html
@@shannond7437 I ended up here www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/7z6oav/spoilers_extended_revisiting_grrms_twow_twist_and/
Smokey Wolf That is endless! I mean Marcella, doran, Catelyn (ish), and SO many other characters are not dead yet. It’s a hard one to pin down, but it sounds like it wasn’t something he specifically foreshadowed per his follow up video with IGN.
The main problem with Catelyn is your just kicking the ball down the road. Who inherits after Catelyn? She has no heirs after Robb.
She's in her mid 30's, she can easily make more children.
In AGoT, Cat specifically thinks about having more kids. She’s 35 at the time.
@LeadFaun If you have ever played Crusader Kings 2, when your desperate for an heir going for an heir you like your odds incredibly more if your a 17 year old guy vs a 35 year old woman. One of those has a significantly higher chance of giving you an heir than the other.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Right right but specifically with Ned. She really loved him. The reason she disliked Jon because he was a sign of his unfaithfulness to her. Every time she would see him it would remind her that Ned cheated on her. Now she had been pretty grief stricken from pretty much after Ned died and then George kept rubbing salt in the wound when she kept getting news her kids were dead. Do you think she would be able to recover emotionally and mentally enough to remarry and have more kids while she is still able? In my opinion I think Catelyns character would absolutely hate the thought of marrying anyone else though she might do it for Tully Family Duty Honor. It just seems out of place to me to pick Catelyn. Also she is the one who freed the King Slayer, has a limited time window to have more kids, as well as she had continually opposed Robb on most of his decisions in the war. When Robb was crowned this scene happened with Catelyn
"Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach. I will mourn for Ned until the end of my days, but I must think of the living. I want my daughters back, and the queen holds them still. If I must trade our four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods. I want you safe, Robb, ruling at Winterfell from your father's seat. I want you to live your life, to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband."
She opposed the war, freed the Kingslayer, is a widow, has no more direct heirs, opposed Robb on most of his plans. I cant see which bannermen would want her as Queen other than House Tully. Being a female ruler in Westeros is hard as it is and doing it with Catelyns baggage? To hard.
That being said Rob doesnt make the best political decisions (Jeyne Westerling) so he totally could have done it despite it being stupid.
@LeadFaun It was more of a way to make a roundabout point of saying a young man has more of a chance to have kids than a 35 year old woman. If you want again why I think Cat is a poor choice read the response I did to Preston.
In my mind Catelyn is the only candidate that makes sense from the context we are given. As mentioned, Catelyn thinks Robb has led her into a trap somehow, but what trap would Robb need to set with regards to the will? He's king, he can choose anyone he wants. Of course, he would like Catelyn's support, but if she doesn't give it, it doesn't really matter - his word is law to his followers. The *only* exception that makes sense is that the person he chooses has to agree, and therefore the person he trapped has to be the person he chose. If he had chosen Jon then that's no trap, saying "I'm going to name Jon in my will" and then naming Jon in the will isn't a trap. Likewise choose anyone other than Cat and insisting on it even if she disagrees is hardly a trap, more likely she would think him stubborn or headstrong instead. The specific wording of the trap just seems like Cat was named and she knew she had to agree because she couldn't call his bluff on offering it to Jon.
Exactly!
Preston i gotta say you really outdid yourself with the Catelyn the Heir theory. As you explained the situation the only person that came to mind was her. It also explains why the Brotherhood would be helping as they are "King's Men"
This is only speculation but if this is true, do you think the Brotherhood will try and convince Catelyn and in turn the north to be friendly to Aegon or whoever they're aligned with?
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 who really knows, but i always think back to what Cat said back in Clash of Kings. Where she proposed that all the kings of Westeros to step down and establish another great Council.
If Catelyn was the person named in Ribb's Will, why would he have brought her to the Twins? Didn't he leave behind Jeyne Westerling to keep her safe? Why wouldn't Robb have done the same for his successor?
GRRM confirmed Jon WAS named heir.....
.....
...
Source?
That intro...my teeth were clenched up until the words "on Robbs Will". Then, they were laughing.
Hey I just re-watched your “Frey in the Snow” video! I would *LOVE* if you did your old videos again.
I don't know why but I treasure this podcast.
Howland Read sent Jogen and Mara Read to aid Bran
Sorry Preston but that’s a pretty big contribution
Sending your only two children....
Feel free to contradict me if I have the details incorrectly analyzed
Cheers
I would not count that much on the wiki.
I think, whatever is case, we have these potential claims on the North: Boltons, Vale-mystery card (either Sansa or Waynwoods or both), Rickon (Manderly's puppet), possibly Bran and newJon (if he becomes more ambitious because of his demise).
Since GRRM confirmed Bran as King (we are not sure if King of the Seven Kingdoms or just North and Trident), we can assume that Starks will be united in the end, unlike the Freys.
Jon would be the logical one, but at the very least he should have legitimized Jon. Howland DID send his kids!
Howland did send his kids....to a harvest festival.
I think the Mormonts would be pissed if he named Jon, that would be a slap in the face of the nights watch and Joer Mormont was the lord commander.
Preston Jacobs Touché. I assume Jojen left him in the dark about his actual plans. But does Howland know they are missing after the war broke out?
MrCapCol312 Jon did save Jeor & holds Longclaw. It’s obvious Jeor approved of Jon.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Have you considered making a video on the Reeds and what they may be up to?
Hello to you both 💛🧡 It's great to hear your voices and that entrance was epic!!!
I just cant appreciate that Pokemon giving me the finger.
My hope is that he named Sweet Robin even though he’s probably not the heir. I want to see more of him.
A sickly child ruling the Vale, north, and river lands.
sweetrobin is not long for this world.
Caitlyn is not actually a stark, noblewomen when married don't become a part of their husband's family so that they can't claim their titles.
That's why Cersei is a Lannister and not a Baratheon.
A bride only keeps her maiden name when she marries a king. This does not extend to lords or other title -holding husbands.
I hope you'll do Lovecraft Country - I read the book it's based on (not Lovecraft - a novel by M. Ruff) and while even the first episode shows they changed certain stuff it's quite good.
If they're not going to cover The Witcher it would be a good choice.
Keep up the good work Preston. Have you thought about having any other ASOIAF youtubers on your podcast? AdmiralKird (who is also an auditor) did a few videos that were exceptionally well researched and detailed in a way that reminded me of your videos, so I always thought it'd be awesome if you two discussed some things in-depth. I think if you got someone on who had similar book knowledge as you it would lead to some really interesting discussions.
Preston we know you think it’s cat
Preston I don’t want to be annoying but where are my TWOW MERCY FINALE videos and please let them come out soon or I’ll lose my friggin mind.
Also i want know what you think about Fire&Blood and if it’s worth a read because I’ve heard it’s very tedious like TWOIAF and is it really important to read Fire&Blood for the lore or is it something you can brush off.
Wasn't Rickard Stark, Ned's dad, married to a Stark? Did she have no siblings? Where are all of the other Starks or is this line petering out too?
I think that marriage connected two petering branches into 1 petering branch.
Rickard Star married Lyarra Stark, the niece of his grandfather.
And yes she did have a sister who married someone from house rodgers, but the marriage was without issue.
To go full tinfoil on this: This marriage probably concentrated skin changing genes which manifested in Brandon and Lyanna, as well as Neds and Catyln's kids.
@@SophiaLilithUwU That's not tinfoil... That's a solid speculation. Cheers.
@@FishBoneD14 Gotcha
@@SophiaLilithUwU Tinfoil me this: Shouldn't the Starks have one of the oldest active savings/checking accounts at the Iron Bank with mostly deposits and relatively austere withdrawls? I bet you they're wealthier than any of the southern families.
in game of thrones (do not know if show only) when Cat tells Ned about Robert coming and Jon Aryan ,,,she says she still feels like a STRANGER and out of place near the weirwood thanks
Watched LCC after hearing you guys talk about it... wasn't sure what to expect but damn its interesting and hits suspense horror drama etc...damn now I really wanna hear you guys recap and theorize on it...ffffff thanks.
7:05 How is it NOT in the Tully’s best interest? Versus the current state of Winterfell?!?
Why do the Tully’s care about winterfell?
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin why did Rome care about Carthage?
@@sagebias2251 ??? Because Carthage was military threat against Rome. Winterfell is a ruin. It has nothing to do with the Tullys.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin But it'd be free real estate!
Preston Jacobs I would assume above all that they wouldn’t want it in the hands of the Boltons as it is currently. Jon would be a much better, safer option for their house. I assume they have SOME interest at the very least of who rules the North! Edit: I mean they did kill Cat & are partnered with the Freys that hold Edmure. It seems logical they have SOME interest. 🤷♀️
Bless you Preston 😂😂😂 I really needed that laugh
I think finding out that Robb named him his heir right before his death would have a huge effect on Jon. Especially if Catelyn also signed the document. It's mainly Catelyn’s harshness he thinks of when considering Stannis' offer to legitimise him. Finding out that Robb and Cat wanted him to be Lord of Winterfell and King in the North might do a lot to change his mind. I don't really see how Catelyn being the heir would play into the narrative moving forward. Are the Northern Lords really going to crown a zombie? Although I do have to admit that the mention of a "trap" is suspicious and I don't have a good answer for that.
I suspect that Robb's will naming Catelyn works as a springboard for Sansa to be crowned Queen of the Riverlands.
The witnesses to Robb's will aren't in the North, really, they're in the Neck (Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover) or in the south, where everyone still believes Bran and Rickon are dead. So, if the Greatjon, the Blackfish, and Jason Mallister step forward to tell the riverlords "Look, King Robb's heir was Lady Catelyn, and she's dead, so we don't really have any option other than bending our knees to this Aegon Targaryen kid", but then Sansa steps forward and says "No, crown ME instead, I have the best claim."
So, it works out that even if Rickon could potentially be crowned king in White Harbor, Sansa might be crowned queen in Harrenhal with Robb's own crown.
last to party Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I could see that happening. But then what about Jon, won't he be king at all? How is he going to meet Dany if he's not King in the North?
Daenerys would meet Jon if she pulled a Stannis and sailed to the Wall, with Jon there to meet her as Lord Commander (a position he would easily keep if the people of Castle Black saw him rise from the dead, like the way Beric gained a following).
So, how it is with Dany (I think) is that:
1. Quaithe is telling her that she's Azor Ahai reborn (that's why she's always saying 'remember who you are'). Quaithe will probably go into more detail about that in TWOW, telling Dany that she is destined to save humanity from the Long Night.
2. When Marwyn meets Dany, he will tell her about the Others attacking the Wall, killing people and raising wights. He will have Gilly with him, who has first hand experience with Others and wights and can talk about the child sacrifices. He will have Maester Aemon's dead body, and he can tell Dany "look, your uncle thought you were destined to fight and stop these creatures from killing more people."
3. Moqorro will meet Dany and tell her she is destined to be the leader of a holy war against the apocalypse.
Tyrion will be the lone voice in the corner, saying "So, there's this kid calling himself Aegon Targaryen who has gone after your throne, can you fight him for me, and maybe let me kill my sister and brother in the meantime?'
Several voices urging Daenerys to answer the call of destiny, in opposition to a Lannister she might not trust (Quaithe has warned her against the lion [and the dark flame as well, but Dany would be mistrustful only of Moqorro and the Rh'lllorites, not Quaithe and Marwyn]). The general assumption is that Dany, upon hearing Tyrion out, will fly into a rage and go straight for King's Landing to fight for the throne, but there is a chance that maybe she won't prioritize the Iron Throne over the many Northern lives that could be lost while she's dicking around in the south. Dany's descent into the kind of person who would burn King's Landing will be very slow and with a lot of build up, she's not yet entirely done trying to protect the common people.
Also, Marwyn has Mance Rayder's son, and Preston mentioned once (And Melisandre did in-universe) that that the kid is the perfect hostage against Mance, so it would be interesting if Mance refused to kneel to Dany, and she would just threaten his son and he would surrender. Then Daenerys could force the wildlings' submission by burning Mance (like Melisandre did her fake Mance, only Dany would burn the real guy), like Randyll and Dickon were burned in GOT Season 7, and that could be added to her slippery slope.
last to party Not sure about that first point regarding Quaithe. I mean it's really hard to say what she wants Dany to do but she never mentioned anything regarding the Others or the Long Night or anything like that. For now it just seems like she wants Dany to embrace her inner Targaryen but to what end I don't think we can say right now. I also think that Dany has to go South first and fight Aegon. The original story progression (when ASOIAF was a trilogy) was AGOT (Wot5K) > ADWD (Dany's invasion) > TWOW (Others Invasion). I think the basic outline still stands and that Dany will fight Aegon before deciding to turn North and help fight the Others. Maybe that's what Quaithe's prophecy is really about. Go south-east to King's Landing/Dragonstone before turning north-west to Winterfell (where we can expect a major battle against the Others to take place). I do also think that Marwyn will play an important role in guiding Dany north. It's peculiar that Quaithe listed all of the people coming to see Dany, except for Marwyn. Does she endorse Marwyn or was she simply not aware of his coming? Marwyn does also have a glass candle like Quaithe so maybe he knows how to protect himself from being spied on by her. Hopefully Preston talks about some of this stuff in his upcoming Dany video(s). I think it'll likely be around Dany and Mirri Maaz Durr since he mentioned in his Deeper Dorne series that there was a lot to talk there. Maybe he'll work in some stuff about Marwyn, seeing as he was Mirri's teacher.
i'm not buying cat as the heir, the north would never have accepted that. Robb worked well as king because he had tully blood, but the issue they're going to have is that they can't lay their hands on an untainted stark child. we could debate for years about robb and cat's mistakes, but the only one who makes sense here is Jon. Edmure is stated several times to be kinda worthless. Rickon and Bran were assumed dead, arya was assumed dead, and sansa was wed to tyrion.
what I'm wondering is why didn't robb call jon from the wall as soon as they made him king.
Preston, I like your theory because it would also give credence to the brotherhood following her. Maybe she was able to tell them that she was named the heir to Winterfell.
A mistake in the fandom? Lol the exact quote is “Jon is the only brother I have left. Shall I die he will be legitimized and receive winterfell.”
Blaubeer Noye bruh George just didn’t wanna spoil it. Why would he give it away when it’s gonna most likely be explained in mid TWOW
IMO it is a distinct possibility that Rob pulled an Alexander the Great and simply left his title to ‘the strongest’
Just started watching, idk if Preston is doubling down on naming Catelyn the heir, but that's like the only one of his theories I don't care for. Let's find out...
Preston needs to be having podcast discussions with people who at least seem like they've read the book
What is Robb's well left Winterfell and the North to Theon? What would the Ironborn think of gaining all that territory through a gift rather than paying the Iron Price?
what happens if Jeyne Westerling is actually pregnant? that would complicate things
Not really because Robb didn't know that he would die without kids, I'm sure his will would have said "If I die without issue (kids) then I name ________ as my heir".
Catelyn makes sense, Jon makes sense, but what if he name Stannis King in the North? 😱
Exactly! If Jon dies it’s safe to expect the north lost the war so if they want hopes of saving their family name after such a loss they would need stannis to fight their battle for them.
@@bryanb2886 it makes so much sense, because Ned died for Stannis and the North is helping him right now, they may know about the will already
What if the name in the will is Gilbert Farwind. That would be EPIC!!!😎🤣👍💯
Seems like Howland Reed was let off the hook having to send any men to his lord as they guard Greywater Watch
Oh an the fact he probably knows who Jon really is and that Ned didn’t beat Arthur Dane fairly in that fight
I know Catelyn points out House Templeton as being the closest heirs with Stark blood and correct me if I'm wrong, that comes through Jocelyn Stark and Benedict Royce, however Jocelyn's uncle Artos Stark had two sons Brandon and Benjen who both had issue. so unless House Templeton gets their Stark lineage through them, then their descendants are in line before the Templeton's.
Yeah it is really weird that theres not a fuckton of Starks running around
@@Jonnywaffles64 Well, they did have a tradition of sending their younger sons to The Wall to prevent having too many claimants to Winterfell.
Jocelyn's descendants would come ahead of Brandon's and Benjen's, because her father, Willam, was the elder brother, and Artos was the younger brother. Winterfell isn't like the Iron Throne, where all female line descendants are out of the running. Yes, a woman would be normally barred from inheriting, but a female line male could easily inherit. If, say, Lyn Corbray were the grandson of Jocelyn Stark, his claim would go forward. Plus, we don't know if Brandon and Benjen (sons of Artos) descendants would even be named "Stark" anymore - maybe they only had daughters and the line continued under a different name. If more Starks were hanging around, someone would have said something.
@@lasttoparty7570 That's true, as in the case of Alys Karstark a daughter comes before an uncle.
What about littlefinger? Like maybe Robb Thought Cat could send a raven and make a deal so that littlefinger would marry sansa (who then would have to be smuggled out of the kings landing) And then he could be named the heir to the NORTH with sansa on his side.
Hadn’t Cat realized littlefinger lied to her after talking to both Tyrion and Jaime about the knife? Seems that would come up if he was suggesting that.
hi I love you guys you are the only ones i listen to Preston you have great voices !! And Preston listening to you ....you wre born in 1976-1978 alittle math and the use of "middle school" gives it away thank you for making me pee my pants with laughter Can you please remind ppl that there is a black candle in Meereen !!!! I swear ppl did not read the funnest chapter of the series the spurned suitor!!! there was a red lamp on the wall and a greasy black candle on a barrel that was the only light" i am like Preston I have read this books atleast 5 times each along with martin's other work i can basically quote verbatim most chapters !! love asoiaf And I believe Bronn is a strong not a Reyne!!!
Thank you two! 🍀
Did Carmine watch any of Preston's videos?
I have been reading A Song of Ice and Fire since Feast. At the behind I had millions of questions and Preston's videos helped me get through the wait. Over the last 3 years or so I have become board with everything. I just want Winds of winter so badly. How do you guys feel about it. I understand GRRMS WRITING IS SLOW!! I'm asking how do you keep it fresh for yourself after so many re reads?? I cant even read or listen to the audio books anymore.
@Ser Michael Mertyns its good just i have been waiting so many years and how many re reads can one person do
I really like this theory on Catelyn being the heir. The way the chapter is written with lady mormonts inclusion, trap for Catelyn and especially Robb's comment on dividing his treasury to keep separately (meaning his wife and mother) do strongly point towards Catelyn.
What I do not like here is Robb's choice politically. Yes, Catelyn being the heir can resolve short-term problem - everyone under Robb's command should be mote or less ok following Cat as well. But how does this resolve the succession crisis? The reason for this discussion is Sansa being under Lannister control, but if Catelyn inherits, the situation stays the same, Sansa is still the heir. The only thing Robb accomplishes to win some time - for Catelyn to sort it out or for his potential son/daughter to be born.
Catelyn being an heir can be good option if things go well - he lives long enough, has a child at some point etc. But if things go South just like they do,Stark heritage goes South, too.
Cat saw crannogmen marching when she arrived at robbs camp... when she was listing everyone she saw.
I guess I misremember certain things, but I clearly remember Rob discussing legitimizing Jon turning him into a Stark rather than a Snow, which would put him next in line for succession. The only kink in this, is the fact that Jon is in the Nightswatch.
Jon is a Stark and older than Robb. Technically Jon was always the heir to winterfell.
Except he was and is a Snow and a man of the Night's watch. Even if the letter intending to legitimizing him reaches him, the last word and testament of a dead king means little. For an example, we saw how much King Roberts decree meant upon his death.
@@ablake81077 except he isn't and never was a snow. He is the oldest legitimate son of Ned Stark and his first wife Ashara Dayne. Jon was conceived at the wolf's den (which was built bg a Jon Stark).
@@Namaste19. illigitament and holds no water. If it did, then he would've never been known to the realm as "Jon Snow" and there would be little or no need for the secrecy surrounding him.
The secrecy is to protect young griff. Like his son Jon, Ned did a sort of baby swap. He took his son Jon home and named him a bastard to protect Ashara. Ashara went to essos with the baby of Rhaegar and Lyanna, young Griff. Ashara is septa Lemore.
plot twist: Carmine hasn’t watched any of Preston’s videos
Copy/Paste: Theories aren't my jam, I've explained this several times. I'm more interested in the prepping for winter
The king in the North! The king in the North! The king in the North!
I’m a bit late to the party but one of the things that really disproves the ‘Cat being the heir’ theory in my mind is the fact she has Rob’s crown
We see her with the crown in her possession as Stoneheart but noticeably she’s not wearing it. I feel like if it was one of Rob’s last requests to be his heir, she would have worn the crown to honour him
I think Stoneheart is meant to be a kind of twisted King maker in she holds onto the crown not for herself but to make sure it only falls into the hands those Rob (or she) deemed worthy
At the time of Robb making his will, Jon was a sworn brother of the Nights Watch. He can hold no lands or titles. The Starks take it seriously and I can't see Robb or any Northroners around him overlooking that fact.
Except that by becoming the Heir of Winterfell he becomes the de facto King of the North. Maester Aemon was given the option to leave the Knights Watch to become the King of Westeros.
I've been really liking the non fire and blood podcasts. I just started reading it just to listen to those ones. I didn't wanna read it until winds came out... but ill be 82 by then and might not have eyesight anymore.
I’d like to hear your guys thoughts on Lovecraft country, it’s goes from 0 to 60 real quick. Solid first episode, just watched 2nd, so much stuff gets thrown at you, still processing it.
I like Preston’s theory about who could be named in the will other than Jon.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best. Cat is not robbs heir. It wouldn't make sense for robb to do that. He dies she remarries and has non stark children. And if she dies childless then the whole succession trouble comes back. Jon is robbs heir.
Can I get a link to Carmine's youtube channel? I was surprised not to find it in the description.
just click my name
When they were talking about the heir having a link to riverlands and the north, and other the Cat, I thought of the Blackwoods. I don't think he would but it would be an interesting turn since they still have a big connection to the North gods and were from just outside Winterfell originally. Again, almost no chance but interesting.