As many will know, I am currently a completely Xbox based simmer. While I have had previous experience with FS on a PC - this was (IIRC) in 1993 when MS bundled FS5 with MS DOS 6.2 upgrade... At that point I was still at school, had no budget for gaming - and as such was not able to take my interest in flight simming any further Whilst I have looked at FS in the intervening period... the costs involved to get a semi realistic experience, both for hardware - and the necessity to buy separate scenery packs for different regions to get anything close to a convincing scenery experience, seemed prohibitive whilst bringing up a young family. As someone that does a lot of remote work / consultancy, I have tried to keep my gaming and my work environments completely separate... and as my family grew up, I moved to working on a Mac (mainly due to the frustration of the continual update issues on windows pcs at the time), then having an Xbox console (360 / one / one X / series X) for living room based gaming. When FS2020 was announced for XBox, I was in a position where I had the Xbox Series X, a Hotas One, and game pass ultimate... therefore FS on Xbox was effectively a zero cost option... Sadly... partly due to the convincing influence of certain youtubers (cough @huddison cough) - but mainly due to my own lack of self control, and my increasing mesmerisation with being able to experience locations which I have never and probably will never get to experience IRL - and to be able to do that with an ever increasing group of friends who I have made within this community. I'm now probably about £700 down in additional hardware... and "oh my goodness that list of marketplace purchases is so long I don't even want to look" down in additional software. 😂 At some point I may well switch over to PC - however the XBox platform - particularly with the series X - does provide an amazing and engaging experience - one which MS / Asobo have done amazing work with in order to give an experience which is as close as it is to the PC experience. I think many of the advantages and disadvantages have already been covered - but for me, the main disadvantage of XBox is the inability to integrate with other software and hardware nearly as easily as PC - e.g. Simlink / Little Navmap / Spad (and similar) / Navigraph (for all aircraft) / 3rd party Avionics. There are small steps being made on Xbox in this direction - such as Navigraph integration (but only when incorporated by the aircraft developer, so far only fully with 4 aircraft) and PMS GTN750 (Now released on a single aircraft, and coming soon to a few more) - but for each, this is at the discretion (and the time investment by) each developer... and not something which is commonly available for most aircraft. And for all the downsides, it is undoubtedly the case, that the initial setup process to get a decently performing sim on console, is much more simple and straightforward than it is on PC... Flexibility and outright performance may be lost... but that additional simplicity is a definite advantage, that for some make the console a better choice even irrespective of cost. I feel that the hardcore "PC Master Race Only - Xbox sUx - Console has broken FS on PC" type people, have a fundamental lack of understanding of the economics involved and the effect that has on the development of the product... This may be over simplified but broadly speaking: - Xbox (and gamepass) = more users - More users = more money - More money = more development - More development = better product for everyone / more better addons - Better product / more addons = more users... Whilst there may be a significant number of these additional users who are not super hardcore high spenders... there are also a good proportion who do end up spending a considerable amount on addons - which increases the available market for 3rd party developers, as well as the investment MS continues to make in the product and surrounding technologies. Xbox also acts as a gateway drug for many Xbox users... within the community there are a good number who started on XBox and then switched to PC... many of these would not have made that reasonably significant investment on PC, if they had not already experienced the product at a much lower cost of entry on console. And for all the software, and most of the hardware, the investments made on Xbox transfer directly over to PC - any peripherals, and marketplace purchases on xbox. don't have to be repurchased for PC... so the additional cost is less substantial that starting out cold. Take XBox away... and the product and available add ons would not be where they are now - and FS would remain much more of a niche product, with less choice and higher cost across the board. With respect to SU15, and comments from some PC players, whilst Xbox may have come to the forefront as far as long standing issues being addressed in this release, the primary motivator for the changes to memory management and avionics updates being split across multiple frames, were not done with the Xbox in mind. If you watched the pre SU15 beta live stream, Asobo were asked if this should address ABO issues and CTD on Xbox, they basically said "dunno, what's an Xbox, don't have them round here... We'll find out during the beta..." (Ok that's my paraphrasing but it does pretty much cover it) I've also seen comments regarding "FS2024 only being necessary for console"... In the announcements for FS2024, console was not really emphasised at all - but rather the need to effectively have a clean start with a new engine, rather than bolting more and more on to the existing engine, stating issues with respect to how the bloat was affecting the complexity, stability and performance across all platforms. FS2020 is using an engine which is an evolution of FSX... A product released 18 years ago... and a codebase which would have gone back well before that. The massive popularity of 2020 Vs previous releases, and the effect this has on both 1st and 3rd party development for the platform, as well as the interest to MS as a showcase for developing their AI platforms and services... Has meant that FS2020 pace of development has been well beyond previous expectations. 2024 is not just needed for Xbox, but is critical to allow the platform to continue to grow and evolve... And not to stagnate into a nightmare of unsupportable legacy code and add-ons which performs badly and is hard to work with. PC will gain just as much as Xbox from this... Ever heard anyone complain about CPU bound single threaded performance? Those complaints all come from PC side (although the same applies also to Xbox which also uses a multi core architecture) It would be foolish to assume Xbox was not one of the factors involved - but almost certainly not the main one! Anyway... I could go on... but I think I've already stretched the boundaries of "2 concise paragraphs" far beyond breaking point already haven't I @Huddison??? 😉
I used to play flight sim on pc and found I spent more time upgrading, tweaking fps and putting scenery into folders than I did actually flying. Xbox bought me back to MSFS sinply because all needed to do was switch it on. If you are actually using the sim to learn to fly, navigate, hold a pattern, then the xbox is perfect and when you've had enough you can be playing Assassins Creed in less than a minute!
Similar story here. Thirty years ago it was MSFS and a list of combat flight sims on pc. My two best friends left their pcs in my den and we spent hundreds of hours flying H2H and cooperative missions on my LAN against the AI in Falcon 3 and 4. Since I had access to the PCs 24/7 and a desire to learn how things worked, I ended up doing the maintenance on theirs and mine. I need to say this was a huge learning curve for a beginner with no experience (no UA-cam in those days…let that sink in a minute), but I was determined and in the end it paid off when at age 45 I decided to return to school for a 4 year degree in Computer Information Systems. I did very well in that pursuit and landed a great job doing web application development for one of the top companies in the region.To this day I believe the edge I had over my classmates was all those hundreds of hours I spent learning to keep those flight simulators working. But it’s 35 years later and I stopped maintaining, taking apart and putting together PCs a long time ago. I remarried 12 years ago and was adopted by a wonderful family in my new home on Long Island. I even got two beautiful granddaughters with the deal recently, something I never would have predicted back when I spent every spare moment with those PCs and my flight sims. Life is different now and I’m very happy and grateful. When I learned several years ago that MSFS 2020 was going to be released on PC and Xbox I knew that one day soon I would once again be flying MSFS but this time without all the time required to build and maintain a dedicated computer. I knew there would be limitations but that’s ok. I have dozens of planes I love flying on my Series S and literally a whole planet full of interesting places to fly them. I’m currently on a break dealing with the recent loss of a beloved family member, but it won’t be too much longer before I’ll be rejoining my online friends in the virtual skies. I guess what I’ve learned is there is great fun and satisfaction for everyone here whether you’ve chosen the PC or the Xbox to pursue your passion. “Have it your way” as they say, and enjoy every minute!
I'm a PC user and I think the fact that MSFS is available for the X-Box users is great. I am sorry that so many of the "freebies" and enhancements that Theo talked about are not available to them. The more flying, the merrier!
James ... My two cents..... I am 100% PC based for MSFS. However, through your discord over the last couple of years I have had some very educational and enlightening conversations with XBOX only users. I am thankful for every one of them. Learned a lot and at the same time got to make some new acquaintances online that share the same Interest as I do. I hope and I think I speak for the majority of us on your channel and discord, that in the end it does not matter whether you are a PC, XBOX or whatever user of MSFS, we ALL need to work together to make MSFS enjoyable for ALL.
@@Huddison My first MSFS was the original in 1982 on a PC! Yes it was. That was just statement of fact that I owned and flew my first plane in MSFS 42 years ago! Cheers.
I started with a series S then moved to X and that’s what got me hooked. I moved to PC about a year ago I love MSFS on PC but without Xbox I would never have got into this and not met so many wonderful people what ever you use the main thing is to enjoy it at what ever level you have.
Also on Xbox, although it’s not exactly like PC trackIR, it’s pretty damn close to trackIR. I used an air mouse on my Xbox and it was great. I put the air mouse on my headset and used my head movements left right up down to look around in the cockpit. Loved it.
I'm a dedicated Xbox simmer, using a Series X and only a regular controller. Not even a mouse. The simulator is incredibly good on console, even though it doesn't reach the visual fidelity of the PC version. I think the difference between the two is the same as general gaming on PC or console. PC gives you more choice, more devices, more tinkering options. Console gives you restricted performance but a much easier setup and UX. I'm more than happy to play on Xbox as I don't have a sufficient PC, I've spent over 1400 hours flying and still not bored with it.
Very useful video, thank you very much. Since I started MSFS I have never understood why some (very few) people look down on Xbox simmers. Some simmers are casual, not casual, hardcore, real pilots, we are all just people who like to fly and share the same passion.
@@Huddison Kenobi is a genius. After a few years on MSFS 2020 on Series X and being a dedicated simmer and not an arcade devotee I find myself in the lofty realms of actual flight logbook time of 1,000 hours and join the 0.08% who have also climbed to such lofty heights! 0.08% tells me without doubt that 90% treat this as an arcade game and or have given up on it and or purchased it and deleted it never to return.
I like freedom, in anything, so anyone should do what THEY decide and want. Bur for me, I need a PC for head tracking, and the freedom to change things, both in FS, and hardware. Plus, I use my PC for many other things. And when I use FS, I have around 300 tabs open in Chrome, possible with groups, and 200 tabs in Edge. Everything is running, with music, and more. Soon, I will need a new PC as my one can't have Windows 11, so that is going to cost a lot, but it's my choice. As for updates, I am never in a rush. I do work slowly, meaning I do it right in the first place. Fast is slow, and slow is fast in the end. I don't know why people are always so impatient. What counts is quality, so if Asobo needs another 2, 3 months for SU15, so be it.
For me it's very simple. While PC gives us a lot more options (Vatsim, freeware addons, tweaks etc) we need to remember that not everyone wants the same thing out of the sim. As long as people are happy with what they have, surely that's all that matters? Not everyone is a hardcore simmer. Not everyone cares about Vatsim or addon exclusivity. We all seek different things from the sim. I have a Series X but I've never used the sim on it because I love my PC setup. However that doesn't mean I'm gonna look down my nose at the Xbox folk. Bringing the sim to Xbox has brought home flight simulation to a wider audience than we ever could have imagined. This can only be a good thing. And the bigger the audience gets, the higher the demand will be for improvements to both the sim AND 3rd party addons, along with bug fixes. Therefore the developers will be compelled to push themselves that bit further to deliver for their customers.
Thanks much for the video, much appreciated. I'm somewhat new to the sim (1.5 years) and had no idea there's a level discontent between Xbox and PC users. I was recently invited into a group of PC'rs and they were all very cool with this Xbox'er 😀! Hey, to each his own in my opinion! Whatever floats your boat or trips your trigger!!! I'm still on an Xbox S and quite amazed how well it works. I was going to upgrade to PC later this year; however, I often see folks having issues with this or that on PC. With that in mind and the positive comments I see about Xbox X, that will be my upgrade choice for this year. Happy simming to all!! Cheers, J
Honestly, sticking with Xbox keeps me limited in what I can buy to add on to my setup and as someone who knows that can spiral out of control, I consider it a good thing 😂
@@Huddison Australia goes to late afternoon and the UK wakens up. lol Our Series S has been a real life door stop for 2 years now at least. Series X it is not and not for any truly complex and demanding task like MSFS 2020. Yes it will "run it" however that does not mean "runs it very nicely". PC's are having issues at an ever increasing rate due to gaming consoles resorting to the revolution of SOC or System on a Chip. Once considered purely for cell phones etc, recent times have seen extraordinary developments in SOC and these will continue until eventually in another decade, very few mainstream PC's will use the 1980 standard of separate CPU, RAM, motherboard, separate GPU and "different RAM" and a zillion other things that as an old man in 2024 I see as the exact same "principle" but using modern tech components with more grunt. However as we can see, because all the components are inter connected with buses and require drivers and such you WILL get bottlenecks even in the latest and most expensive high end PC's compared to an SOC console. It's just physics. Cheers!
Absolutely 100% agree with you there. The throttles on the TB V1 stick... are the weakest part of the overall experience - and they prevent the stick from being an ideal solution on it's own for precise control of helicopters. At the moment I compromise by operating the stick with my left hand, then controlling the collective using my V1 Yoke quadrant (actually the vernier controls) using my right hand... This allows much more precise control than the throttles on the stick. If there was a standalone or TB V1 connectible standalone throttle quadrant... preferably ~£100 price point... then I would have bought it. At present, the best throttle solution on Xbox if you have the budget, is to get the Thrustmaster Airbus Captains pack - this has some of the best throttle controls, and a better stick than the TBV1, and is fully Xbox compatible. (Which then makes the V1 stick redundant... but I'm sure you could sell it or donate it for some poor controller bound user in the community 😉)
@@danlance Thanks for your suggestion on this issue 😊Love helicopters too. Steering whit right hand and using the tb Yoke as collective. Gives a good feeling and thumbs trimming for rotor and power.
Of course, PC is better, but I can't afford $2000 for a high-end gaming PC. The Xbox X does a great job for the price. Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦 Huddy !
Xbox series X: "The output is 4K but as is the standard these days for demanding games, temporal reconstruction is used: frames are natively rendered at 1440p, with data from prior frames injected to increase the detail level" - Alex Battaglia of Eurogamer
World has gone crazy. Social media has made it so easy for people to be toxic and tell other people what they should be doing. Xbox or PC. Shouldn't we all be happy we have a pretty good sim to play with. I play another game it was on PC and Console. The company has stopped all updates and content for consoles. They can keep playing with what they have. The toxic environment was just plain crazy (Am being polite).
Is it worth purchasing a digital version of msfs2020 or is that a waste of money. Because I'd they take off game pass not sure if I would loose all my content that I have brought cheers Jason
The last console I owned, was a Super Nintendo. I’m not a console guy at all, but I’m glad MSFS was released for the Xbox. It’s introduced the joy and fascination of flight simulation to an untold number of people, who otherwise would not or could not play it on the PC. This, in turn, has made the sim a wildly popular and profitable release, which means more support, and more 3rd party devs than we could have ever hoped for. 🖖😀✈️ I will make one gripe, however. I detest the console-friendly UI with all of my heart. The cut off text in drop-down menus is the worst. An additional PC-specific UI would have been warranted.
Great take, but I’ve gotta disagree with you here on the UI front. 😅 This was 100% designed for mouse and keyboard, and feels simply awful to navigate with only a controller. Just thankful they allow text scaling and KB/M on Xbox to make it manageable! Hoping that it improves across the board for all of us in 2024. 🍻
@@josephdavidnash When I think of a PC interface, I think of DCS. In my humble estimation, it’s vastly easier to use, than what we have in MSFS. But I hear you! Not trying to be too argumentative, I hope! 😎
As an exclusively console based player, I also detest the """console-friendly""" UI... It's not console friendly... it's just bad UX... Maybe from an aim to have one UI that works on both platforms... but really, they have come to some sort of compromise which works badly across the board. Even microsoft acknowledge that a substantial proportion of console players of FS use KB and mouse - as despite the main UI, the in aircraft interaction with a controller is painful to the point of virtual un-usability...
well ive had some right pc simmers have a go at me like i said to them we need to all stick together to get flight sim working its no good saying its all xbox fault ive got friends on both and sim ud15 as problems on both at the moment like ive said my series x ive not really had problems a few stutters here and there but thats flight sim and i would love a big pc to play flight sim but i havent the space and would not use it as much as my xbox like you say and i did say this to some pc simmers that where having a go at me i would love for pc to get ud15 and xbox later dnt know why thay carnt do that but some pc simmers have said flight sim should be scraped on xbox but like me and a lot xbox simmers have put lots of money into it but at the end of the day we all want ud15 to be up and ready and working perfect on all pc and console so we just need to wait
I started flight simulation in my early 60s' due to enforced retirement caused by an aggressive health condition. I purchased an Xbox S because it was easy enough for me to understand....I use Hotas throttle and joystick as I couldn't use the Xbox controller....Money not being a concern, the cost had no influence on my choice (P.C or Xbox)... I have no problem with the graphics, no stoppages or any such issues with frame rate (WHICH I OFTEN NOTE ON UA-cam MFS DEMONSTRATIONS SHOWCASING NEW AIRCRAFT ETC)...Blank Avionics screens aren't a problem as I only fly retro aircraft with steam gauges...The disadvantage however is the limited number of more interesting aircraft available in Marketplace..... I'm sure there is some snobbery involved, as we know , in life such people are known to be weak and unimportant and of course best ignored......Roger
@@Huddison I'm sorry if I made little sense or was embarrassing...I'm struggling with alzheimers and don't say what's on my mind... Your videos are great in the way you help fellow simulators... Thank you ...Roger
Great video, Huddison. I've been reading other contributions below in the comments, which I totally agree with. Have fun and play in your own style is my motto, but respect everyone in the process.
Same with X-Box vs Sony. It's all trash talking nonsense... Unfortunately there's ALWAYS trolls who just want to be in conflict for whatever reason... Mostly I think it's just their way of getting attention, but that's their problem. The wars won't just go away and stop as long as there's people like this around. Best we can do is try police it when we can, ignore it when we can't. Human nature sucks that way. Democracy suffers too, as we have to respect their opinion until they try to force their philosophy on everyone. And then the tools to fight back are weakened by politicians. Anyway I didn't mean to rant. Just be kind and respect other's opinions and beliefs. Platforms owned by private companies CAN effectively moderate, unlike democratic Governments who must allow free speech.
12:03 Sorry my man, console war will be ended in near future. Consider western Game industry's decline force both Sony and MS shipping their exclusive on the most popular platform, we can tell that console gaming market alone was not sustainable for publisher, and without exclusive title there will be less to no reason for gamer to purchase console anymore. If you can't depend on console gaming market to fulfilled your financial need, why make another under-price hardware just to have tiny user gain anyway? In the next few years, there will be only PC, smartphone and Nintendo, Sony may hanging around for one generation or two, MS will giving up on gaming hardware completely and focus on software.
The flight sim community being separated only benefits Microsoft. We should never divide ourselves when we have so much in common (we all love to fly). We as a community should stand together. An unjust to one is an unjust to all.
Im on xbox series x. I notice on most pc streamers that there is a lot of stuttering but ive never experienced it. The graphics and performance are excellent and the hardware addons are improving all the time. The only thing im jealous of with pc gamers is track ir,but there is a hack using an air mouse!
I came to MSFS after abandoning the space "sim" Elite Dangerous, where over years PC players saw graphics and performance degraded as the developers - who I suspect knew better, but had to obey the dictate of management - struggled and ultimately failed to squeeze adequate performance out of last-gen consoles. I'm hoping we dont see the same thing happen with 2024 - I'm hoping that new technology can give both PC and this-gen console players excellent performance without nerfing anything. But hope is not the same thing as certainty, and on the other hand I am certain that Asobo is no more immune from pressure from Xbox management than the Elite Dangerous devs were from theirs.
Hah - me too (well I didn't abandon Elite until when FDev abandoned the 30% of their players by dropping console support for future updates). I think it helps that the lead for FS within MS is not a toxic egomaniac who makes developer's lives hell... causing them to leave the company ending up with a codebase which no-one remaining in the company actually understands, as was the case with ED. I think also that MS is slightly more concerned about on of their Halo gampass games being available on their console platform than FDev were - kind of helps when it's their platform! I think it's always going to be a struggle to get something this complex and flexible (in terms of 3rd party addons especially) to perform as well within the restrictive resource constraints of the Xbox platform... and sometimes (maybe partly due to the nature of the split of development across 1st party / 2nd party / 3rd party studios), sometimes the eye may be somewhat off the ball as far as robust testing of releases on Xbox (World updates in particular, but also the avionics updates from WT have suffered in this way) - however the testing process for SU15, the taking on board of feedback from testers (community managers are taking note of and acknowledging feedback to individual testers where appropriate) - and the multiple delays to the release date - are, for all they may be frustrating, actually good signs that MS is keen to remediate some of the previous shortcomings and attempt to ensure as stable and performant release for all users, Xbox and PC. Yes... maybe there are more improvements to be made in both implementation and process - but I see the way that SU15 beta has been handled as a positive foreshadowing for FS 2024.
Some good comments in the video, thanks. I agree with a lot that Susie and Tango said. I am a dedicated Xbox Series X user but I have being playing FS since it was on the Commodore Amiga. From there I started playing on the PC. However, I then purchased an Xbox Series X a year or two ago and I doubt I would ever return to a PC. As I have said in your Discord channel a while ago, with the PC I became obsessed with tweaking this and tweaking that...in fact I spent more time tweaking the settings than flying. With the Xbox I just turn it on and it works. I have a Velocity 1 yoke with pedals and 4K resolution monitor. I have not had a Sim crash for over 6 months and typically fly the FSR500 (very immersive), Vision Jet and HJet (granted the HJet is the Lite version but this is not much different to the non Lite version). I have to say that there are benefits to the PC...you have more add ons to play with (and tweak 😀 ) and you have the benefit of being able to update your PC's spec. Something not possible on the X. One final note and I hope Microsoft read this..... I have been reading about the new Xbox spec. It seems they are changing the shape to round, and removing the CD drive. However no change to the actual processing power...arrrrggggghhhhhhh! Why can't we have more memory, how hard can that be!!!!! All they seem to have done is increase the disk size. Xbox is great but Microsoft, please give us more memory and perhaps a faster processor.
It's also my hope that somebody from Asobo reads through these comments, as many are an excellent information gold mine for them. _Everything_ is becoming digital my friend.
The more that play the better. The Xbox gamers have a current concern that they are getting left behind and it is much more of a Microsoft PC focus within the Microsoft company. Also, there is a concern about Microsoft’s belt tightening. If MSFS doesn’t make enough money, it could be on the chopping block. Finally, I played PC games in the ‘80s and 90’s and looked down on console gamers. Like others, I realized I was spending too much time trying to get games to work.
This completely misses the point! Any right thinking PC flight simmer will laud the uptake of this hobby be it on the PC or on one of the available consoles. Indeed, because console flight simming is cheaper and more...straightforward than on a PC, it should make the hobby far more accessible and is to be be encouraged! However when it comes to the consideration of metrics such as performance, reliability and tardiness or otherwise of updates delivery, this accessiblity should not carry any penalties whatever for the PC user! And that is the point! Of course, it would be churlish and just plain wrong to blame the console player for this state of affairs. It is MSobo, and MSobo alone who have allowed this...well, let us speak plainly here, debacle to come about. This is the same MSobo who, despite all their protestations to the contrary, are now 'jumping ship' to a new simulation, leaving us with at best skeletal support for the future. In this regard, I invite every interested party to express their thoughts.
I’m on PC but only because I didn’t have my series X at the time MSFS came out. I’m not a big modder but I do like head tracking and wouldn’t want to fly without it. Also, my son just gave me his Quest 2 VR headset when he got the Quest 3, so I switch back and forth between TrackIR and VR. Neither is available on Xbox at this time. Otherwise I’d happily fly on Xbox, especially if there’s no stuttering.
I understand the burned out PC owners, they have invested four times the money for a machine that makes rafts the same as the Xbox. There is jealousy here! There will come a time when the consoles will chew up the PCs like radishes! That's for sure.
Hi there Hudderson I play on my Xbox series s . I am amazed that you can play such a game like that on my system. Just wondering what your thoughts are as I don’t own a copy of my own as I play it through game pass . I have bought some add ons like planes etc for the game . When 2024 comes out to replace msfs 2020 will the game stop being supported and stop working and will I lose all my content that I have paid for . what’s your opinion on what to do cheers jason . I appreciate your videos and advice.
MS have made clear that the majority of existing marketplace purchases should migrate to 2024 - i.e. the marketplace purchases are tied to your Xbox account, and not to the game itself... Whether all products will migrate without issue, is a question no-one can answer at this time, as none of the 3rd party developers have received any access to or any documentation for any 2024 SDK (software development kit). (with the possible exception of the studios which are developing products for inclusion in the core sim - but if that is the case, then they will be under absolute NDA embargo and cannot share any information publicly until released from the embargo.) However... it is most probable that the majority of, if not all aircraft, will be migrated without too much issue. Global add ons such as Flow, enhanced runway lights etc. are more in question - as they in some cases alter core sim functionality in a way which is... innovative... and not necessarily one which will be possible under FS2024... But that's just an assumption based on common sense and the limited feedback given by MS / Asobo and the commonly expressed sentiment amongst many developers that they want to migrate their products to 2024 but cannot give any guarantees until they are given access to / documentation for the 2024 SDK.
I have a Series X and a gaming PC with 4070ti Super and 5800x3d. IMO FS2020 is the most impressive showcase on the Series X. The console is dead silent when running the game and quick resume enables me to play within 20seconds of switching the console on. On the PC the lettering in the cockpit is a bit crisper because of the superior upscaling and the higher frame rate is sweet. But overall, the visual differences is negligible compared with how accessible, affordable and optimised the game on the Xbox. MS have effectively democratised cutting edge flight simulation. Thank you Phil!
@@Huddison I have a Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack but learned to fly using an Xbox controller by watching your videos! Because of quick resume and the controller living on my couch side table, I was able to practice more often. This included 15-20min sessions here and there between netflix watching without having to go to a desktop or setup peripherals. Although the TCA adds immersion, Series S + Controller is a quick and fun way to rack up air miles.
Ive been building Pc's for 34 years. i started in elementary school and just kind of skipped over game consoles. Game consoles are great for people with zero technical ability and zero technical interest. Pc's are more capable in every way, but if you arent going to use those capabilities there isnt alot of reason to buy a PC.. Atleast, is what i'd normally say. Right now Microsoft is doing something strange with their gaming products, im going to keep an eye on it for a bit.
I have a 1TB xbox S and V1 stick. Fly C172 classic. Recently bought discounted Logitech rudder pedals which of course don't work on xbox. I started exploring PC option a few weeks ago. Old i5-9400 PC upgraded with 32GB RAM, SSDs and RTX 4060. I've had to settle HIGH graphics settings at reduced 30 fps (cpu/gpu at 60%/40%) with VSync On and 50% setting, otherwise screen tearing is evident with VSync Off on the old TV, or stutters at 60fps (eg. 360 degree pan when parked at Heathrow) Only outstanding issue is the annoying split second stutter I see on final approach into complex airports such as 27R at Heathrow, and when leaving same airport on PC. I don't see these stutter issues on the xbox S. I only have updates for UK installed as I discovered having too many World updates installed seems to cause the game to become unstable on xbox S.
@@Huddison I had read the stutter on final approach may be cpu related. Currently tinkering with reduced TRAFFIC settings, LOD etc. I even tried your PC settings guide to no avail. I have to admit I have only been using DX11 with TAA. On first day I received the 4060, I did briefly try DX12 with DLSS and I think with FG, but image seemed less sharp. I will look at it again to see if helps with the split second stutter into Heathrow 27R. Thanks for suggestion. fwiw, I read msfs on xbox runs at 'upto' 30 fps, and I note 360 deg pan on xbox seems 'smoother' than on PC at 30 fps to my eyes. I should add my xbox and PC are connected to different old Samsung and Sony FHD TVs respectively.
@@bxl181 Often the momentary pause on PC when approaching major airports can be traffic related - and not at all related to GPU, and can be experienced on much higher end PCs than yours. Some have advised turning nameplates off significantly reduces the stutter - and turning off live traffic (and in some busy locations at busy times) even multiplayer traffic, can help even further. Really a matter of preference though - would you prefer to have the immersion of a realistic amount of traffic... with the split second stutter... or would you prefer to eliminate the stutter. I've also heard that using 3rd party traffic injectors rather than the sims built in (and mostly meh) live traffic, can help significantly... (ps - my comments here are second hand and not from personal experience as I fly exclusively on XBox, but they come from experts within the community who I trust, in giving advice to a friend who is in the process of migrating from Xbox to PC on a similar spec system to yours - but with a much newer i7 CPU)
I’m on Xbox Series X and I’m very happy with it. Yes PC can have way better graphics and details if you spend the money on a better PC, and of course, the freeware but with Xbox, anything you do buy you click buy and download done ready to fly. Most of the PC community are very good, but there are those few that bash the Xbox and say you can’t have any peripherals. I have the entire turtle beach set up yolk stick rudder pedals, I also have a mouse and keyboard hooked up along with the Xbox controller and auto pilot panel and another box for landing gears all my battery switches lights, etc. they are the Axair MILI23 and MIAP Pro. Just like others have said there is pros and cons to both. And on closing, it’s ridiculous The ones that think Xbox is holding everything up when I know several of the simmers on the SU 15 beta on PC that are having a bunch of issues still
Two things... First, DCS maybe coming to Xbox series X ?....No plans currently. I have DCS... Second, Hows SU15 going for Xbox? Just asking for a friend... My Black Square - Piston & Turbine Duke Bundle are running beautiful on my PC...
I play on series s, had absolutely no issue at all but i decided to download hamburg airport for around 20€ and suddenly i get stuttering, crashes and my avionics keep shutting off. Its so annoying 🫠
@@Huddison But it is exactly what to expect. Hence Jorg Neumann and Asobo's constant recommendations to uninstall all 3rd party airports, scenery etc................... Yet no one appears to listen?
As many will know, I am currently a completely Xbox based simmer.
While I have had previous experience with FS on a PC - this was (IIRC) in 1993 when MS bundled FS5 with MS DOS 6.2 upgrade... At that point I was still at school, had no budget for gaming - and as such was not able to take my interest in flight simming any further
Whilst I have looked at FS in the intervening period... the costs involved to get a semi realistic experience, both for hardware - and the necessity to buy separate scenery packs for different regions to get anything close to a convincing scenery experience, seemed prohibitive whilst bringing up a young family.
As someone that does a lot of remote work / consultancy, I have tried to keep my gaming and my work environments completely separate... and as my family grew up, I moved to working on a Mac (mainly due to the frustration of the continual update issues on windows pcs at the time), then having an Xbox console (360 / one / one X / series X) for living room based gaming.
When FS2020 was announced for XBox, I was in a position where I had the Xbox Series X, a Hotas One, and game pass ultimate... therefore FS on Xbox was effectively a zero cost option...
Sadly... partly due to the convincing influence of certain youtubers (cough @huddison cough) - but mainly due to my own lack of self control, and my increasing mesmerisation with being able to experience locations which I have never and probably will never get to experience IRL - and to be able to do that with an ever increasing group of friends who I have made within this community. I'm now probably about £700 down in additional hardware... and "oh my goodness that list of marketplace purchases is so long I don't even want to look" down in additional software. 😂
At some point I may well switch over to PC - however the XBox platform - particularly with the series X - does provide an amazing and engaging experience - one which MS / Asobo have done amazing work with in order to give an experience which is as close as it is to the PC experience.
I think many of the advantages and disadvantages have already been covered - but for me, the main disadvantage of XBox is the inability to integrate with other software and hardware nearly as easily as PC - e.g. Simlink / Little Navmap / Spad (and similar) / Navigraph (for all aircraft) / 3rd party Avionics. There are small steps being made on Xbox in this direction - such as Navigraph integration (but only when incorporated by the aircraft developer, so far only fully with 4 aircraft) and PMS GTN750 (Now released on a single aircraft, and coming soon to a few more) - but for each, this is at the discretion (and the time investment by) each developer... and not something which is commonly available for most aircraft.
And for all the downsides, it is undoubtedly the case, that the initial setup process to get a decently performing sim on console, is much more simple and straightforward than it is on PC... Flexibility and outright performance may be lost... but that additional simplicity is a definite advantage, that for some make the console a better choice even irrespective of cost.
I feel that the hardcore "PC Master Race Only - Xbox sUx - Console has broken FS on PC" type people, have a fundamental lack of understanding of the economics involved and the effect that has on the development of the product...
This may be over simplified but broadly speaking:
- Xbox (and gamepass) = more users
- More users = more money
- More money = more development
- More development = better product for everyone / more better addons
- Better product / more addons = more users...
Whilst there may be a significant number of these additional users who are not super hardcore high spenders... there are also a good proportion who do end up spending a considerable amount on addons - which increases the available market for 3rd party developers, as well as the investment MS continues to make in the product and surrounding technologies. Xbox also acts as a gateway drug for many Xbox users... within the community there are a good number who started on XBox and then switched to PC... many of these would not have made that reasonably significant investment on PC, if they had not already experienced the product at a much lower cost of entry on console. And for all the software, and most of the hardware, the investments made on Xbox transfer directly over to PC - any peripherals, and marketplace purchases on xbox. don't have to be repurchased for PC... so the additional cost is less substantial that starting out cold.
Take XBox away... and the product and available add ons would not be where they are now - and FS would remain much more of a niche product, with less choice and higher cost across the board.
With respect to SU15, and comments from some PC players, whilst Xbox may have come to the forefront as far as long standing issues being addressed in this release, the primary motivator for the changes to memory management and avionics updates being split across multiple frames, were not done with the Xbox in mind. If you watched the pre SU15 beta live stream, Asobo were asked if this should address ABO issues and CTD on Xbox, they basically said "dunno, what's an Xbox, don't have them round here... We'll find out during the beta..." (Ok that's my paraphrasing but it does pretty much cover it)
I've also seen comments regarding "FS2024 only being necessary for console"...
In the announcements for FS2024, console was not really emphasised at all - but rather the need to effectively have a clean start with a new engine, rather than bolting more and more on to the existing engine, stating issues with respect to how the bloat was affecting the complexity, stability and performance across all platforms.
FS2020 is using an engine which is an evolution of FSX... A product released 18 years ago... and a codebase which would have gone back well before that.
The massive popularity of 2020 Vs previous releases, and the effect this has on both 1st and 3rd party development for the platform, as well as the interest to MS as a showcase for developing their AI platforms and services... Has meant that FS2020 pace of development has been well beyond previous expectations.
2024 is not just needed for Xbox, but is critical to allow the platform to continue to grow and evolve... And not to stagnate into a nightmare of unsupportable legacy code and add-ons which performs badly and is hard to work with.
PC will gain just as much as Xbox from this...
Ever heard anyone complain about CPU bound single threaded performance? Those complaints all come from PC side (although the same applies also to Xbox which also uses a multi core architecture)
It would be foolish to assume Xbox was not one of the factors involved - but almost certainly not the main one!
Anyway... I could go on... but I think I've already stretched the boundaries of "2 concise paragraphs" far beyond breaking point already haven't I @Huddison??? 😉
What can I say Dan: an excellent and thorough write-up. I'm happy you broke my 'Concise rule' with this one ;)
😬
I used to play flight sim on pc and found I spent more time upgrading, tweaking fps and putting scenery into folders than I did actually flying. Xbox bought me back to MSFS sinply because all needed to do was switch it on.
If you are actually using the sim to learn to fly, navigate, hold a pattern, then the xbox is perfect and when you've had enough you can be playing Assassins Creed in less than a minute!
Wonderful additions Peter.
Similar story here. Thirty years ago it was MSFS and a list of combat flight sims on pc. My two best friends left their pcs in my den and we spent hundreds of hours flying H2H and cooperative missions on my LAN against the AI in Falcon 3 and 4. Since I had access to the PCs 24/7 and a desire to learn how things worked, I ended up doing the maintenance on theirs and mine. I need to say this was a huge learning curve for a beginner with no experience (no UA-cam in those days…let that sink in a minute), but I was determined and in the end it paid off when at age 45 I decided to return to school for a 4 year degree in Computer Information Systems. I did very well in that pursuit and landed a great job doing web application development for one of the top companies in the region.To this day I believe the edge I had over my classmates was all those hundreds of hours I spent learning to keep those flight simulators working.
But it’s 35 years later and I stopped maintaining, taking apart and putting together PCs a long time ago. I remarried 12 years ago and was adopted by a wonderful family in my new home on Long Island. I even got two beautiful granddaughters with the deal recently, something I never would have predicted back when I spent every spare moment with those PCs and my flight sims. Life is different now and I’m very happy and grateful. When I learned several years ago that MSFS 2020 was going to be released on PC and Xbox I knew that one day soon I would once again be flying MSFS but this time without all the time required to build and maintain a dedicated computer. I knew there would be limitations but that’s ok. I have dozens of planes I love flying on my Series S and literally a whole planet full of interesting places to fly them. I’m currently on a break dealing with the recent loss of a beloved family member, but it won’t be too much longer before I’ll be rejoining my online friends in the virtual skies.
I guess what I’ve learned is there is great fun and satisfaction for everyone here whether you’ve chosen the PC or the Xbox to pursue your passion. “Have it your way” as they say, and enjoy every minute!
I'm a PC user and I think the fact that MSFS is available for the X-Box users is great. I am sorry that so many of the "freebies" and enhancements that Theo talked about are not available to them. The more flying, the merrier!
Couldn't agree with you more!
James ... My two cents..... I am 100% PC based for MSFS. However, through your discord over the last couple of years I have had some very educational and enlightening conversations with XBOX only users. I am thankful for every one of them. Learned a lot and at the same time got to make some new acquaintances online that share the same Interest as I do. I hope and I think I speak for the majority of us on your channel and discord, that in the end it does not matter whether you are a PC, XBOX or whatever user of MSFS, we ALL need to work together to make MSFS enjoyable for ALL.
Thanks Bob, that was beautifully stated.
@@Huddison My first MSFS was the original in 1982 on a PC! Yes it was. That was just statement of fact that I owned and flew my first plane in MSFS 42 years ago! Cheers.
I started with a series S then moved to X and that’s what got me hooked. I moved to PC about a year ago I love MSFS on PC but without Xbox I would never have got into this and not met so many wonderful people what ever you use the main thing is to enjoy it at what ever level you have.
Wonderfully stated Neil.
Yep, me too. Started on Xbox and got hooked and saved up money for a VR capable computer. If it wasn’t for Xbox, I wouldn’t be into flightsims.
Also on Xbox, although it’s not exactly like PC trackIR, it’s pretty damn close to trackIR. I used an air mouse on my Xbox and it was great. I put the air mouse on my headset and used my head movements left right up down to look around in the cockpit. Loved it.
I'm a dedicated Xbox simmer, using a Series X and only a regular controller. Not even a mouse. The simulator is incredibly good on console, even though it doesn't reach the visual fidelity of the PC version. I think the difference between the two is the same as general gaming on PC or console. PC gives you more choice, more devices, more tinkering options. Console gives you restricted performance but a much easier setup and UX. I'm more than happy to play on Xbox as I don't have a sufficient PC, I've spent over 1400 hours flying and still not bored with it.
Wonderful.
Very useful video, thank you very much. Since I started MSFS I have never understood why some (very few) people look down on Xbox simmers. Some simmers are casual, not casual, hardcore, real pilots, we are all just people who like to fly and share the same passion.
That's the best outlook.
@@Huddison Kenobi is a genius. After a few years on MSFS 2020 on Series X and being a dedicated simmer and not an arcade devotee I find myself in the lofty realms of actual flight logbook time of 1,000 hours and join the 0.08% who have also climbed to such lofty heights! 0.08% tells me without doubt that 90% treat this as an arcade game and or have given up on it and or purchased it and deleted it never to return.
I like freedom, in anything, so anyone should do what THEY decide and want. Bur for me, I need a PC for head tracking, and the freedom to change things, both in FS, and hardware. Plus, I use my PC for many other things. And when I use FS, I have around 300 tabs open in Chrome, possible with groups, and 200 tabs in Edge. Everything is running, with music, and more. Soon, I will need a new PC as my one can't have Windows 11, so that is going to cost a lot, but it's my choice. As for updates, I am never in a rush. I do work slowly, meaning I do it right in the first place. Fast is slow, and slow is fast in the end. I don't know why people are always so impatient. What counts is quality, so if Asobo needs another 2, 3 months for SU15, so be it.
Yes let them get the update 100% (or close to that) in working order.
For me it's very simple. While PC gives us a lot more options (Vatsim, freeware addons, tweaks etc) we need to remember that not everyone wants the same thing out of the sim. As long as people are happy with what they have, surely that's all that matters? Not everyone is a hardcore simmer. Not everyone cares about Vatsim or addon exclusivity. We all seek different things from the sim. I have a Series X but I've never used the sim on it because I love my PC setup. However that doesn't mean I'm gonna look down my nose at the Xbox folk. Bringing the sim to Xbox has brought home flight simulation to a wider audience than we ever could have imagined. This can only be a good thing. And the bigger the audience gets, the higher the demand will be for improvements to both the sim AND 3rd party addons, along with bug fixes. Therefore the developers will be compelled to push themselves that bit further to deliver for their customers.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks much for the video, much appreciated. I'm somewhat new to the sim (1.5 years) and had no idea there's a level discontent between Xbox and PC users. I was recently invited into a group of PC'rs and they were all very cool with this Xbox'er 😀! Hey, to each his own in my opinion! Whatever floats your boat or trips your trigger!!! I'm still on an Xbox S and quite amazed how well it works. I was going to upgrade to PC later this year; however, I often see folks having issues with this or that on PC. With that in mind and the positive comments I see about Xbox X, that will be my upgrade choice for this year. Happy simming to all!! Cheers, J
Honestly, sticking with Xbox keeps me limited in what I can buy to add on to my setup and as someone who knows that can spiral out of control, I consider it a good thing 😂
Excellent 😆
@@Huddison Australia goes to late afternoon and the UK wakens up. lol Our Series S has been a real life door stop for 2 years now at least. Series X it is not and not for any truly complex and demanding task like MSFS 2020. Yes it will "run it" however that does not mean "runs it very nicely". PC's are having issues at an ever increasing rate due to gaming consoles resorting to the revolution of SOC or System on a Chip. Once considered purely for cell phones etc, recent times have seen extraordinary developments in SOC and these will continue until eventually in another decade, very few mainstream PC's will use the 1980 standard of separate CPU, RAM, motherboard, separate GPU and "different RAM" and a zillion other things that as an old man in 2024 I see as the exact same "principle" but using modern tech components with more grunt. However as we can see, because all the components are inter connected with buses and require drivers and such you WILL get bottlenecks even in the latest and most expensive high end PC's compared to an SOC console. It's just physics. Cheers!
X is the way...I'm not impressed at all with S graphics
😢
The Series S is clearly an inferior albeit MSFS experience all at once.
No war to it. PC is much better. I have Xbox S and it kinda sucks.
Very happy Xbox simmer 😊 But still waiting for a throttle for flight stick one by Turtle Beach 😢 or any throttle that will work stand alone
It's sorely needed for Xbox.
Absolutely 100% agree with you there.
The throttles on the TB V1 stick... are the weakest part of the overall experience - and they prevent the stick from being an ideal solution on it's own for precise control of helicopters.
At the moment I compromise by operating the stick with my left hand, then controlling the collective using my V1 Yoke quadrant (actually the vernier controls) using my right hand... This allows much more precise control than the throttles on the stick.
If there was a standalone or TB V1 connectible standalone throttle quadrant... preferably ~£100 price point... then I would have bought it.
At present, the best throttle solution on Xbox if you have the budget, is to get the Thrustmaster Airbus Captains pack - this has some of the best throttle controls, and a better stick than the TBV1, and is fully Xbox compatible. (Which then makes the V1 stick redundant... but I'm sure you could sell it or donate it for some poor controller bound user in the community 😉)
@@danlance Thanks for your suggestion on this issue 😊Love helicopters too. Steering whit right hand and using the tb Yoke as collective. Gives a good feeling and thumbs trimming for rotor and power.
This is a non issue. Choose the platform that suits and go fly.
It _should_ be that simple.
Of course, PC is better, but I can't afford $2000 for a high-end gaming PC. The Xbox X does a great job for the price. Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦 Huddy !
!00% - greetings friend.
Xbox series X: "The output is 4K but as is the standard these days for demanding games, temporal reconstruction is used: frames are natively rendered at 1440p, with data from prior frames injected to increase the detail level" - Alex Battaglia of Eurogamer
So it's really 1440p on an Xbox, and on series S it is really 720p (I have series S xbox. And also a PC (4070 gpu 5800X3D cp).
On Xbox series S: UA-cam videos of MSFS running at 4K, 2K (1440p), full HD (1080p), 720p. MSFS running on Series S looks like UA-cam videos at 720p)
@@acratone8300 What???????????
Not at all. Forza is native 4K 60FPS locked displayed to my 86" LG 4K UHD. This is fact. The PS5 cannot do this. You have the WRONG console sir.
World has gone crazy. Social media has made it so easy for people to be toxic and tell other people what they should be doing. Xbox or PC. Shouldn't we all be happy we have a pretty good sim to play with. I play another game it was on PC and Console. The company has stopped all updates and content for consoles. They can keep playing with what they have. The toxic environment was just plain crazy (Am being polite).
Yes, social media has a lot of persuasion & influence on playstyles for sure.
I do both PC and Series X. Hardcore, I guess.
I own both Xbox X and mid spec PC. If I could plug all my peripherals into my Xbox, I'd probably dump the PC as its just so expensive to upgrade.
Great contribution Paul.
Is it worth purchasing a digital version of msfs2020 or is that a waste of money. Because I'd they take off game pass not sure if I would loose all my content that I have brought cheers Jason
I found it worth buying, especially as I fly mostly on Pc and don't always have an active Gamepass account.
The last console I owned, was a Super Nintendo. I’m not a console guy at all, but I’m glad MSFS was released for the Xbox. It’s introduced the joy and fascination of flight simulation to an untold number of people, who otherwise would not or could not play it on the PC. This, in turn, has made the sim a wildly popular and profitable release, which means more support, and more 3rd party devs than we could have ever hoped for. 🖖😀✈️
I will make one gripe, however. I detest the console-friendly UI with all of my heart. The cut off text in drop-down menus is the worst. An additional PC-specific UI would have been warranted.
Great points and feedback.
Great take, but I’ve gotta disagree with you here on the UI front. 😅 This was 100% designed for mouse and keyboard, and feels simply awful to navigate with only a controller. Just thankful they allow text scaling and KB/M on Xbox to make it manageable! Hoping that it improves across the board for all of us in 2024. 🍻
@@josephdavidnash When I think of a PC interface, I think of DCS. In my humble estimation, it’s vastly easier to use, than what we have in MSFS. But I hear you! Not trying to be too argumentative, I hope! 😎
As an exclusively console based player, I also detest the """console-friendly""" UI...
It's not console friendly... it's just bad UX...
Maybe from an aim to have one UI that works on both platforms... but really, they have come to some sort of compromise which works badly across the board.
Even microsoft acknowledge that a substantial proportion of console players of FS use KB and mouse - as despite the main UI, the in aircraft interaction with a controller is painful to the point of virtual un-usability...
well ive had some right pc simmers have a go at me like i said to them we need to all stick together to get flight sim working its no good saying its all xbox fault ive got friends on both and sim ud15 as problems on both at the moment like ive said my series x ive not really had problems a few stutters here and there but thats flight sim and i would love a big pc to play flight sim but i havent the space and would not use it as much as my xbox like you say and i did say this to some pc simmers that where having a go at me i would love for pc to get ud15 and xbox later dnt know why thay carnt do that but some pc simmers have said flight sim should be scraped on xbox but like me and a lot xbox simmers have put lots of money into it but at the end of the day we all want ud15 to be up and ready and working perfect on all pc and console so we just need to wait
Let's hope it's a smooth inception with SU 15.
I started flight simulation in my early 60s' due to enforced retirement caused by an aggressive health condition. I purchased an Xbox S because it was easy enough for me to understand....I use Hotas throttle and joystick as I couldn't use the Xbox controller....Money not being a concern, the cost had no influence on my choice (P.C or Xbox)... I have no problem with the graphics, no stoppages or any such issues with frame rate (WHICH I OFTEN NOTE ON UA-cam MFS DEMONSTRATIONS SHOWCASING NEW AIRCRAFT ETC)...Blank Avionics screens aren't a problem as I only fly retro aircraft with steam gauges...The disadvantage however is the limited number of more interesting aircraft available in Marketplace..... I'm sure there is some snobbery involved, as we know , in life such people are known to be weak and unimportant and of course best ignored......Roger
Snobbery should never enter this domain.
@@Huddison I'm sorry if I made little sense or was embarrassing...I'm struggling with alzheimers and don't say what's on my mind... Your videos are great in the way you help fellow simulators... Thank you ...Roger
@@rogerrees9845 You made perfect Sense Roger; my thoughts are with you.
Great video, Huddison. I've been reading other contributions below in the comments, which I totally agree with. Have fun and play in your own style is my motto, but respect everyone in the process.
Totally agree Suzie, thanks for your input for the video.
You're welcome. Thanks for sharing my content on V1FS also.
If I had an X-box I wouldnt have has many planes sooo maybe a good thing hmmmm.
Great way of thinking about the subject Mike ;)
Same with X-Box vs Sony. It's all trash talking nonsense... Unfortunately there's ALWAYS trolls who just want to be in conflict for whatever reason... Mostly I think it's just their way of getting attention, but that's their problem. The wars won't just go away and stop as long as there's people like this around. Best we can do is try police it when we can, ignore it when we can't. Human nature sucks that way. Democracy suffers too, as we have to respect their opinion until they try to force their philosophy on everyone. And then the tools to fight back are weakened by politicians. Anyway I didn't mean to rant. Just be kind and respect other's opinions and beliefs. Platforms owned by private companies CAN effectively moderate, unlike democratic Governments who must allow free speech.
12:03 Sorry my man, console war will be ended in near future.
Consider western Game industry's decline force both Sony and MS shipping their exclusive on the most popular platform,
we can tell that console gaming market alone was not sustainable for publisher, and without exclusive title there will be less to no reason for gamer to purchase console anymore.
If you can't depend on console gaming market to fulfilled your financial need, why make another under-price hardware just to have tiny user gain anyway?
In the next few years, there will be only PC, smartphone and Nintendo, Sony may hanging around for one generation or two, MS will giving up on gaming hardware completely and focus on software.
The flight sim community being separated only benefits Microsoft. We should never divide ourselves when we have so much in common (we all love to fly). We as a community should stand together. An unjust to one is an unjust to all.
Im on xbox series x.
I notice on most pc streamers that there is a lot of stuttering but ive never experienced it.
The graphics and performance are excellent and the hardware addons are improving all the time.
The only thing im jealous of with pc gamers is track ir,but there is a hack using an air mouse!
I came to MSFS after abandoning the space "sim" Elite Dangerous, where over years PC players saw graphics and performance degraded as the developers - who I suspect knew better, but had to obey the dictate of management - struggled and ultimately failed to squeeze adequate performance out of last-gen consoles.
I'm hoping we dont see the same thing happen with 2024 - I'm hoping that new technology can give both PC and this-gen console players excellent performance without nerfing anything. But hope is not the same thing as certainty, and on the other hand I am certain that Asobo is no more immune from pressure from Xbox management than the Elite Dangerous devs were from theirs.
That's valuable observations. I'm also hoping for the more favourable outcome.
Hah - me too (well I didn't abandon Elite until when FDev abandoned the 30% of their players by dropping console support for future updates).
I think it helps that the lead for FS within MS is not a toxic egomaniac who makes developer's lives hell... causing them to leave the company ending up with a codebase which no-one remaining in the company actually understands, as was the case with ED.
I think also that MS is slightly more concerned about on of their Halo gampass games being available on their console platform than FDev were - kind of helps when it's their platform!
I think it's always going to be a struggle to get something this complex and flexible (in terms of 3rd party addons especially) to perform as well within the restrictive resource constraints of the Xbox platform... and sometimes (maybe partly due to the nature of the split of development across 1st party / 2nd party / 3rd party studios), sometimes the eye may be somewhat off the ball as far as robust testing of releases on Xbox (World updates in particular, but also the avionics updates from WT have suffered in this way) - however the testing process for SU15, the taking on board of feedback from testers (community managers are taking note of and acknowledging feedback to individual testers where appropriate) - and the multiple delays to the release date - are, for all they may be frustrating, actually good signs that MS is keen to remediate some of the previous shortcomings and attempt to ensure as stable and performant release for all users, Xbox and PC. Yes... maybe there are more improvements to be made in both implementation and process - but I see the way that SU15 beta has been handled as a positive foreshadowing for FS 2024.
Some good comments in the video, thanks. I agree with a lot that Susie and Tango said. I am a dedicated Xbox Series X user but I have being playing FS since it was on the Commodore Amiga. From there I started playing on the PC. However, I then purchased an Xbox Series X a year or two ago and I doubt I would ever return to a PC.
As I have said in your Discord channel a while ago, with the PC I became obsessed with tweaking this and tweaking that...in fact I spent more time tweaking the settings than flying. With the Xbox I just turn it on and it works. I have a Velocity 1 yoke with pedals and 4K resolution monitor.
I have not had a Sim crash for over 6 months and typically fly the FSR500 (very immersive), Vision Jet and HJet (granted the HJet is the Lite version but this is not much different to the non Lite version).
I have to say that there are benefits to the PC...you have more add ons to play with (and tweak 😀 ) and you have the benefit of being able to update your PC's spec. Something not possible on the X.
One final note and I hope Microsoft read this..... I have been reading about the new Xbox spec. It seems they are changing the shape to round, and removing the CD drive. However no change to the actual processing power...arrrrggggghhhhhhh! Why can't we have more memory, how hard can that be!!!!! All they seem to have done is increase the disk size. Xbox is great but Microsoft, please give us more memory and perhaps a faster processor.
It's also my hope that somebody from Asobo reads through these comments, as many are an excellent information gold mine for them.
_Everything_ is becoming digital my friend.
@@Huddison I wonder if they will give me a free upgrade from my FS2020 CD to digital 😀
@@StevieW-Steve 😆
The more that play the better. The Xbox gamers have a current concern that they are getting left behind and it is much more of a Microsoft PC focus within the Microsoft company. Also, there is a concern about Microsoft’s belt tightening. If MSFS doesn’t make enough money, it could be on the chopping block. Finally, I played PC games in the ‘80s and 90’s and looked down on console gamers. Like others, I realized I was spending too much time trying to get games to work.
I think the bias is turning towards Xbox MSFS; there's a lot more consoles out there than gaming PCs.
This completely misses the point!
Any right thinking PC flight simmer will laud the uptake of this hobby be it on the PC or on one of the available consoles.
Indeed, because console flight simming is cheaper and more...straightforward than on a PC, it should make the hobby far more accessible and is to be be encouraged!
However when it comes to the consideration of metrics such as performance, reliability and tardiness or otherwise of updates delivery, this accessiblity should not carry
any penalties whatever for the PC user!
And that is the point!
Of course, it would be churlish and just plain wrong to blame the console player for this state of affairs.
It is MSobo, and MSobo alone who have allowed this...well, let us speak plainly here, debacle to come about.
This is the same MSobo who, despite all their protestations to the contrary, are now 'jumping ship' to a new simulation, leaving us with at best skeletal support for the future.
In this regard, I invite every interested party to express their thoughts.
The point of this video, was essentially to quench the unnecessary berating towards those who fly on Xbox.
I wonder if the reason why they won’t bring out separate updates for the pc is that it would effect when people are on multiplayer.
That could be a valid reason.
@@Huddison Jorg Neumann has always said the code is different and is not possible for a hybrid.
I’m on PC but only because I didn’t have my series X at the time MSFS came out. I’m not a big modder but I do like head tracking and wouldn’t want to fly without it. Also, my son just gave me his Quest 2 VR headset when he got the Quest 3, so I switch back and forth between TrackIR and VR. Neither is available on Xbox at this time. Otherwise I’d happily fly on Xbox, especially if there’s no stuttering.
Thanks for your input Carol.
I have it for Series 'S' but I'm hoping that Sony can get it on the PS5 and PSVR2 compatible
That'll be great.
Pc v console wars need to stop on all games not just msfs.. imo
Absolutely.
I understand the burned out PC owners, they have invested four times the money for a machine that makes rafts the same as the Xbox. There is jealousy here! There will come a time when the consoles will chew up the PCs like radishes! That's for sure.
That's a fair & valid argument.
How did you get that awesome custom livery on your plane?
It was a livery one of our Discord users made - I think I have it pinned in one of our Discord channels.
Hi there Hudderson I play on my Xbox series s . I am amazed that you can play such a game like that on my system. Just wondering what your thoughts are as I don’t own a copy of my own as I play it through game pass . I have bought some add ons like
planes etc for the game . When 2024 comes out to replace msfs 2020 will the game stop being supported and stop working and will I lose all my content that I have paid for . what’s your opinion on what to do cheers jason . I appreciate your videos and advice.
I'm hoping a lot of the popular and Marketplace addons will be supported in FS2024; time will tell on this though.
MS have made clear that the majority of existing marketplace purchases should migrate to 2024 - i.e. the marketplace purchases are tied to your Xbox account, and not to the game itself...
Whether all products will migrate without issue, is a question no-one can answer at this time, as none of the 3rd party developers have received any access to or any documentation for any 2024 SDK (software development kit). (with the possible exception of the studios which are developing products for inclusion in the core sim - but if that is the case, then they will be under absolute NDA embargo and cannot share any information publicly until released from the embargo.)
However... it is most probable that the majority of, if not all aircraft, will be migrated without too much issue. Global add ons such as Flow, enhanced runway lights etc. are more in question - as they in some cases alter core sim functionality in a way which is... innovative... and not necessarily one which will be possible under FS2024...
But that's just an assumption based on common sense and the limited feedback given by MS / Asobo and the commonly expressed sentiment amongst many developers that they want to migrate their products to 2024 but cannot give any guarantees until they are given access to / documentation for the 2024 SDK.
I have a Series X and a gaming PC with 4070ti Super and 5800x3d. IMO FS2020 is the most impressive showcase on the Series X. The console is dead silent when running the game and quick resume enables me to play within 20seconds of switching the console on.
On the PC the lettering in the cockpit is a bit crisper because of the superior upscaling and the higher frame rate is sweet. But overall, the visual differences is negligible compared with how accessible, affordable and optimised the game on the Xbox. MS have effectively democratised cutting edge flight simulation. Thank you Phil!
Now that's a great testament to the Series X.
@@Huddison I have a Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack but learned to fly using an Xbox controller by watching your videos!
Because of quick resume and the controller living on my couch side table, I was able to practice more often. This included 15-20min sessions here and there between netflix watching without having to go to a desktop or setup peripherals. Although the TCA adds immersion, Series S + Controller is a quick and fun way to rack up air miles.
It is true.
I really miss multiscreen on my xbox s/x. I use 2x monitors on the pc version which is very useful. Moving map LNM cant be facilitated on xbox.
Something somewhat can be facilitated on Xbox with an external Tablet or Smartphone.
@@Huddison sounds like a great topic for a video?
@@stephenmason5682 on it.
They are just jealous. 😉
First 0:05 0:05 0:05 0:06
Ive been building Pc's for 34 years. i started in elementary school and just kind of skipped over game consoles. Game consoles are great for people with zero technical ability and zero technical interest. Pc's are more capable in every way, but if you arent going to use those capabilities there isnt alot of reason to buy a PC.. Atleast, is what i'd normally say. Right now Microsoft is doing something strange with their gaming products, im going to keep an eye on it for a bit.
I'll be keeping a close eye too.
I have a 1TB xbox S and V1 stick. Fly C172 classic. Recently bought discounted Logitech rudder pedals which of course don't work on xbox.
I started exploring PC option a few weeks ago. Old i5-9400 PC upgraded with 32GB RAM, SSDs and RTX 4060. I've had to settle HIGH graphics settings at reduced 30 fps (cpu/gpu at 60%/40%) with VSync On and 50% setting, otherwise screen tearing is evident with VSync Off on the old TV, or stutters at 60fps (eg. 360 degree pan when parked at Heathrow)
Only outstanding issue is the annoying split second stutter I see on final approach into complex airports such as 27R at Heathrow, and when leaving same airport on PC.
I don't see these stutter issues on the xbox S. I only have updates for UK installed as I discovered having too many World updates installed seems to cause the game to become unstable on xbox S.
I would've thought that you would be able to push the setting higher with the 4060. Have you tried Frame Gen with it?
@@Huddison I had read the stutter on final approach may be cpu related. Currently tinkering with reduced TRAFFIC settings, LOD etc. I even tried your PC settings guide to no avail.
I have to admit I have only been using DX11 with TAA. On first day I received the 4060, I did briefly try DX12 with DLSS and I think with FG, but image seemed less sharp. I will look at it again to see if helps with the split second stutter into Heathrow 27R. Thanks for suggestion.
fwiw, I read msfs on xbox runs at 'upto' 30 fps, and I note 360 deg pan on xbox seems 'smoother' than on PC at 30 fps to my eyes. I should add my xbox and PC are connected to different old Samsung and Sony FHD TVs respectively.
@@bxl181 Often the momentary pause on PC when approaching major airports can be traffic related - and not at all related to GPU, and can be experienced on much higher end PCs than yours.
Some have advised turning nameplates off significantly reduces the stutter - and turning off live traffic (and in some busy locations at busy times) even multiplayer traffic, can help even further.
Really a matter of preference though - would you prefer to have the immersion of a realistic amount of traffic... with the split second stutter... or would you prefer to eliminate the stutter.
I've also heard that using 3rd party traffic injectors rather than the sims built in (and mostly meh) live traffic, can help significantly...
(ps - my comments here are second hand and not from personal experience as I fly exclusively on XBox, but they come from experts within the community who I trust, in giving advice to a friend who is in the process of migrating from Xbox to PC on a similar spec system to yours - but with a much newer i7 CPU)
I’m on Xbox Series X and I’m very happy with it. Yes PC can have way better graphics and details if you spend the money on a better PC, and of course, the freeware but with Xbox, anything you do buy you click buy and download done ready to fly. Most of the PC community are very good, but there are those few that bash the Xbox and say you can’t have any peripherals. I have the entire turtle beach set up yolk stick rudder pedals, I also have a mouse and keyboard hooked up along with the Xbox controller and auto pilot panel and another box for landing gears all my battery switches lights, etc. they are the Axair MILI23 and MIAP Pro. Just like others have said there is pros and cons to both. And on closing, it’s ridiculous The ones that think Xbox is holding everything up when I know several of the simmers on the SU 15 beta on PC that are having a bunch of issues still
Well stated. Performance on the Series X is mightily impressive from what I've seen.
Two things...
First, DCS maybe coming to Xbox series X ?....No plans currently. I have DCS...
Second, Hows SU15 going for Xbox? Just asking for a friend...
My Black Square - Piston & Turbine Duke Bundle are running beautiful on my PC...
I play on series s, had absolutely no issue at all but i decided to download hamburg airport for around 20€ and suddenly i get stuttering, crashes and my avionics keep shutting off.
Its so annoying 🫠
That's not good.
@@Huddison But it is exactly what to expect. Hence Jorg Neumann and Asobo's constant recommendations to uninstall all 3rd party airports, scenery etc................... Yet no one appears to listen?