Turning Flagpole into Antenna! (
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Duane B, KE8RJF, wants to know if he can use his fiberglass flagpole for an antenna.
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I lived in an HOA controlled neighborhood for about ten years. And, what I used as a 40m vertical antenna was a wire pulled up in a tree in the wooded area behind my house that would not be noticed by the neighbors. For the ground plane, I cleared away the fallen leaves at the base of the tree and laid down galvanized chicken wire and staked it down to the ground using tent stakes. I then covered the chicken wire with the fallen leaves I had cleared. And, I buried the coax back to the basement. So, all that anyone could see is a single dark grey 14 gauge insulated wire. And, they could only see that if they were literally standing in my backyard. It was easy and effective. And, no one ever noticed it. At least, if they did, they never said anything about it.
Hi Dave. Thanks for answering my question! I appreciate the advice for installing the radials. I'm currently studying for my general. Just planning ahead like you mentioned. 73.
Every time I am researching a HAM radio related subject I end up here on your channel Dave. Thinking about a "Flag Pole Antenna" for the front yard. Have a MFJ 2010 OCFD up about 20 feet in the back yard now... power line restrictions. Anyway, I will continue searching "Flag Pole Antennas" I thought you had a few more videos on the subject. CARRY ON!!!
why not go up inside pole with 33 ft of ladderline...... clip 1 to be 16 ft.... the ladder will keep it spaced apart
Brilliant!
Hi Dave. Using ladder line is a great idea for a Fan Vertical. I might also suggest using cheap pool noodle cut in 1 inch sections to help hold the top and bottom of the elements used. Just food for thought. As soon as I'm strong enough I want to try the ladder line idea.
That's a great idea!
Thanks for all of your videos! I’m a newbie as well and I appreciate your generosity and willingness to share your knowledge.
Love to see the practical side of this ... how to make the connection to the coax, do you need a plate to connect the radials , love to see it actually done. Also I would probably cheat a use the flag rope to pull it up until I knew it was working.
I have a fiber glass flagpole too. And at the Base it has a steel pipe for strength, abt 70 cm long. I put up a 40m vertical on the outside and many ground radials. 1:1 swr on 40m and 15m band.
I used a lawn edger for part of my radial field. I has a curved blade and it took me a few hours to bury one side. Within a week the slits were barely noticeable.
For the other side I used some biodegradeable stakes used for landscaping fabric or sod.
I did that because I risked slicing telco/catv drops and I really didn't want to try to locate them.
The biodegradeable stakes allowed me to anchor the radials and minimise the risk to my lawnmower in that area.
Within a month the radials have all but vanished into the lawn.
If you go looking for them you can still see them but the grass has started to cover them up nicely.
There are also commercially made flagpole antennas, for those with restrictive HOAs.
For what it is worth I found that my Hustler 5BTV didn't really perform well until I had at least 30 radials, I kept adding more radials and found that after about 60 radials performance gains started becoming smaller, I am sitting at about 75 radials now, I was working towards 90 but I ran out of wire and I haven't been motivated to get more. I just laid them on top of the grass and secured them down with sod stakes, by the end of the summer the lawn (st augustine grass) had grown over them and sucked them down perfectly.
Hams in my area (an HOA) are using aluminum flag poles (no internal wires) and they use the pole as the antenna. Have an automatic matching unit at the base, hide it under a fake stone, and they do very well on HF. Look up John Ellis NP2B article, September 2017 QST and simply follow what he did. I was at a guy's QTH the other day and he'd just installed one. WOW, it was amazing. Very impressive. It requires radials. If you're not good with a flat shovel call the folks that put in invisible dog fences and they can bury the radials. The next morning you won't even know where they are. de KQ1K
Essentially build a DXing commander inside the flagpole
K2CHF here! Great video! You make this sound so easy to do..!!!
FWIW: Based on studies from Rudy Severns (N6LF), the milestone for radials would be about 5 wavelengths of the lowest frequency with reduced ROI beyond that. Individual length isn't as important as the overall length of copper on/in the ground (FWIW)
Thanks for sharing. First: If the flag pole is made of aluminum instead of fiberglass, can I still run 2 wires inside for a 20 and 10 Mts 1/4 wave? Second: Do I need a Balun at the bottom, if so what ratio balun would be the one? I am trying to re start the hobby after many inactive years. Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
Thanks Dave! Great tips as always! 73! De KJ5DVL
I have a aluminum telescopic 30 foot tall . Can I put a dipole antenna and invert it . I have my general. And love all your videos. You are like a Elmer.
Can you turn the radial field into either hexagon shapes like inside a bee hive, or diamond shapes both emanating from the antenna? Neglecting connections corrosion either soldering together and dabbing the junction with resin, or just twisting two wires?
Actually, the required length of the antenna segment inside the fiberglass pole, which is technically a Radome, will be shortened by 1/ SQRT(dielectric constant of the radome material).
Depending on the specifics, that may not amount to much.
Remember that since the dielectric constant is itself a Complex Number, its value will change depending on the frequency in use - which again may not be much, but it really IS a consideration in Radome design.
Large, multi-layer Radomes get even more complex to design where the frequency (actually the wavelength) also dictates the thickness of the layers.
73
Sounds like a DX Commander
FlagPoles are very Cheap on Ebay and heaps of Size's, they have both Alloy and Fibreglass
Dave, I was thinking of running a fan vertical up a chain link fence top rail mast. How much standoff from a metal pole would you suggest to prevent coupling? Thanks!
A couple of inches will suffice. That spacing is too small to create any distortion in the pattern, but great enough that the RF is going to follow the path of least resistance - the resonant element. That's how fan dipoles work. And, it works for verticals, too - witness the DX Commander vertical. That's just a vertical version of a fan dipole with radials.
73
AI4IJ
Thank you, Dave. N0QFT
,
Good going Duane! 73's from Finland de OH6FDM
Hi Dave. My question is more about the radials and not about the flagpole antenna.
Due to the limited space in my property, I plan to put up a vertical HF antenna up on the roof. In my country, houses are built with roofs made from galvanized iron sheets. My question is that will my radials work well as if they were on the ground? 73.
4G1FBL from the Philippines
16 radials works like gangbusters
I live in Florida and something like 10- 20 feet down. I am in water. Lots of things in the water, sulfur, and other sthigs. Will this give me a good ground plan or do I still need to put in the wires.
My question is how would I get a good SWR? Use a Balun/Urun? 49:1?
If it's an existing flagpole already bolted to its foundation, you will need to use a gamma match. Look for articles on the internet and other sources about feeding towers as though they were verticals. This is almost the same situation.
Our new home is currently under construction as we speak.
Unfortunately, I could not avoid an HOA neighborhood as this seems to be new-normal nowadays. Recently I came across the 'Greyline DX Flagpole Antenna' purely on accident. Of course the reviews are nothing but high-praise. However, I do not trust online reviews as they are often cherry picked by the manufacturer.
Would this product be a reasonable "do all" antenna for a Yaesu 991A or FTDX-10?
We are a 'buy once - cry once' family and do not wish to have a plethora of antennas and/or cables strewn about our classy home. Nor do I think the other residents would take too kindly to such eyesores. Plus we like to adhere to the 'KISS method' for our amateur radio needs.
We are not _too_ serious about the hobby in general, but would like to know that we have invested wisely in quality equipment as our interest in HAM radio ebbs and flows.
Thank you for your time and expertise. I would include a link to the product in question. However, UA-cam forbids the inclusion of links in the comment sections.
Stay classy my friend.
I lived in an HOA controlled neighborhood for about ten years in my two story (three stories in the back) custom home, as well. And, what I found to be a very effective antenna was a resonant full-wave loop antenna for 40m installed in the attic around the eves, secured with staples. The nice thing about a full wave loop antenna is that it is resonant on ALL of the harmonic bands. So, it worked great on 40m, 20m, 15m, and 10m with little tuning required to cover those entire bands. I just used the internal tuner in my Kenwood TS-2000. This antenna was a bit of a cloud warmer on 40m, but had gain in some directions on 20m, 15m, and especially 10m and I was able to work a good bit of DX as far as Europe and Hawaii from Georgia. Of course, it required no radials, could be coax fed, and loops tend to be rather quiet in terms of noise. And, of course, no one could see it or know it was there at all. Just something to consider.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, you will need a 2:1 balun for match to 50 ohm coax at the feed point. But, the balun actually makes it easier to connect to it using a regular piece of coax with a PL-259 at each end. And, you just connect the loop to the balanced side of the balun, preferably at a corner.
Oh, and the nice thing about a flagpole antenna is that it is a simple antenna - just a flagpole and some radials. That means, you don't have to even consider the reviews. It's just a vertical antenna and it will be good for DX. Of course, with vertical antennas, they are only resonant on odd harmonic bands. So, a 1/4 wave 40m vertical is going to work on 15m, but not 20m or 10m.
If you use a full wave loop antenna in the attic, like I did, and a 40m vertical flagpole antenna, you should be able to work DX on 40m and 15m on the vertical, and, depending on the height above ground, local on 40m and DX on 20m, 15m, and 10m on the loop.
73
AI4IJ
@@richardowens9061 Wow!
This is by far, the most thorough information I have received to date! Thank you so much for this inclusive information Richard.
In fact, I even took a photo of your commentary on my phone so I can use it as further reference.
I will definitely be looking into a full wave loop antenna. Appreciate the helpful information.
Thanks again my friend!
@@BertShackleford You are quite welcome!
73
AI4IJ
@@richardowens9061 Hello again Richard,
I miraculously managed to find an IC-7300 in stock so I jumped on the opportunity. However, I did not add a power supply or antenna to my order for fear that the available inventory would run out by the time I was done with the checkout process.
Well that is precisely what occurred. The Woodbridge, VA HRO location had several in-stock this morning. However, they sold out by the time I finished my registration/checkout process. Luckily, the Plano, Texas HRO location had several popup in their inventory so I placed my order without including any extra _necessary_ equipment.
My question(s) are as follows:
1. Do you have any recommended/preferred equipment that is required for basic operation of the radio?
(I must reiterate that I am still learning strictly on the RX end as I am not currently licensed. However, my need to learn and understand amateur radio operation is far to great to ignore at this point.)
2. Your antenna recommendation is my current "go-to" option. Is there a company that makes such an antenna or is this something I need to build?
-Honestly, I am not too comfortable with the idea of building my own gear. My wife thinks this is odd because I have built a myriad of things throughout my life. Everything from cars and cabins to firearms and furniture. However, I have _never_ been comfortable around electronics and the wizardry behind it all.
3. Do I need a tuner? Is it required or is it something that will simply make my learning curve slightly easier?
- I figured the less equipment; the better off I will be in the beginning. Basically adhering to the KISS method.
With all that being said, I am woefully unfamiliar with the _required_ gear in order to get my radio operational. What are the minimum pieces required to do such a thing? I know I still need an antenna and a power supply. But I do not know if I need more nor do I know what to look for in this equipment.
My plan is to go down to the HRO Phoenix location and purchase the necessary gear while I am at the shop. I am looking for efficiency here. I just want to plug-and-play so to speak.
Hope this inquiry was not too convoluted. I welcome any and all helpful information from you and the community.
Stay classy my friend(s).
@@BertShackleford Congratulations on snagging that awesome radio! I'm sure it will give you years of trouble free service and enjoyment.
As for what you need:
At a bare minimum, you need a power supply and an antenna. - and, of course, a feedline for the antenna The radio you selected has pretty much everything else you're going to need, for now.
For receive only, your power supply can be rather modest. It need only provide a few amps at 13.8 volts DC. But, for transmit you're going to need something more robust - something that can provide up to about 30 amps. The radio itself will likely never draw more than about 20 amps, but it's never a good idea to cut tolerances so close. A 30 amp supply is going to give you about a 50% buffer and will allow you to power other small accessories in the future. Astron makes excellent power supplies for amateur radio and I've had good experience with them. But, there are, of course, other options available and your friends at HRO can also make recommendations. Plan to spend a couple hundred dollars on a good power supply, Don't cheap out on this because you will likely regret it. Cheap power supplies can introduce noise that your sensitive radio will definitely hear, and so will you.
The loop antenna is very simple. It's just wire cut to a specific length - one wavelength for the lowest frequency at which you intend to operate. I suggested a 40 meter loop antenna for your attic because of the physical dimensions that are typically available in an attic. And, it can provide operation on other harmonically related bands - 20m (2nd harmonic), 15m (3rd harmonic), and 10m (4th harmonic).
For insulators, you can use standard TV coax staples. These will allow the wire to slip easily while you're running it around the attic. For the wire, I suggest 14 gauge insulated stranded copper wire. You will want to buy a 500 ft roll of it - not because the antenna is going to use all of it, but because you will likely want to build other wire antennas in the future and this is a good size to use for dipoles, verticals, and for ground radials. And, it's not too terribly expensive.
You're also going to want to add a couple of ring connectors at the ends for connection to the balun. Although, you may also be able to attach the wire ends directly, depending on the design of the balun. The feed point impedance of a loop antenna is approximately 100 ohms - hence, why I recommended a 2:1 balun. But, you could also use a 4:1 balun, which may make operation on non-harmonic bands, like 30m and 12m, a little easier. The wider the range of your tuner the less important this becomes.
For coax, you could use RG-8x or Belden 8267 (RG213U). At HF frequencies, these coaxes will have little loss and sufficient power handling capability, while being relatively inexpensive and easy to work with. Terminate it with PL-259 connectors at each end.
The length of wire you're going to need can be roughly calculated using the formula 1005/frequency for the lowest frequency of operation and the result will be in feet. Cut the antenna a little long and then trim as needed.
Of note: You're going to want to trim the antenna for the lowest band - 40m. But, the 40m band is rather wide and the CW portion is at the low end and the SSB voice portion is at the upper end. Just be aware that, even if you intend only to use SSB, you're going to want to cut the antenna for use at the CW end, and here's why: The harmonic bands are going to fall out of the allocated spectrum, if you cut it for the SSB end of 40m. If you cut it for 7.1MHz, for example, it will also be resonant at 14.2 MHz, 21.3MHz, and 28.4MHz - all of which fall squarely within the allocated band spectrum for amateur use. But, if you cut the antenna for 7.3 MHz, it is going to be resonant at 14.6MHz, 21.9 MHz, and 29.2 MHz - outside of the allocated frequency ranges.
I highly recommend you get an antenna analyzer to help you with tuning your antenna(s). It will make short work of figuring out whether your antenna is too short or too long and what your SWR is at various frequencies. This is going to be something you will use as long as you are into amateur radio.
I also recommend you get a soldering station - not just a soldering iron. Depending on what you're soldering, you're going to need either high power or low power and a soldering station will allow you to adjust the heat to meet your needs. There are excellent videos here on UA-cam to expound on soldering, so I won't go into greater detail here. Just let it suffice to say you will not regret having a soldering station and it will likely get a lot of use over time. A butane soldering iron is also nice to have for use in the field when you're away from a 120 volt source.
Finally, for receiving, a tuner is not going to be needed at all for this antenna. For transmitting, you're going to need a tuner, but the tuner in your IC-7300 should suffice, assuming you cut your antenna properly. A manual outboard tuner will greatly enhance the versatility of your antenna for general shortwave listening and for operating on non-resonant bands like 30m, 12m, and 6m, but it is not required for your primary bands of operation.
As a Technician class ham, he has access to 40 meters CW.