251 Comparison ｜GAP 251 ｜Upton 251 ｜Bock 251
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Today we're going to compare 3 popular 251 clones. The Golden Age Premier 251 mkii, Upton 251 and the Bock 251.
The Ela m251 is one of the most revered vocal microphones in the history of music. Comissioned by Telefunken in the 1960's and made originally by AKG. the Ela m251 is known for it's bright, intimate sound. The 251 has become the staple of vocal recording along side it's older brother the Neumann u47. Paired with a Neve 1073, Urei 1176 and a great opto like the UA La2a or Tubetech Cl1b you will get the sound of "hit records". An Ela m251 original can fetch as much as 30k$ which is probably out of bounds for most mortals. There are allot of clones out there on the market, but who builds the best clone? Today we're going to take a look at 3 of the most talked about 251 clones. The affordable GAP 251 made by Golden Age Premier. The Upton 251 and the Bock 251. Bock has now been sold to Universal Audio but is still in production.
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Raw Files:
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I came in looking for Bock samples but the Upton blew me away.
If you equalize each microphone differently, a comparison doesn't make any sense...
This comparison is essentially worthless because they were all EQ’d because they sound different. 😂
You can actually take the time to download the raw files.
The Bock sounded awesome with the high end shimmer but without the sibilance!
If buying I’d pick the one made by the company most likely to be around, with a strong supply of parts and willing to service the mic for the next 25 years.
My favorite was the Upton! Congrats on the new addition to your family!
Thanks! And thanks for listening :)
C is the best 👍
Edit : after watching till the end, i didnt expect that bock would came out last in my favourite
C>B>A
Nice! Yeah the Upton seems to be sitting in between the Gap and Bock so I understand why seem to like it!
@@Christian_svedin even though bock is a famous mic maker 🤔, expensive doesnt mean its good haha, thanks Chris for showing this comparison
@@indokingcoal I don't think the Bock is bad but when you put things up against each other you'll expose both their strength and weaknesses
I heard the raw files, and i like the Golden Age better.
The Proximity effect is less. Fresher highs. More controlled lows. But lees warm. What i like, cause the warm, comes here from the my preamp. Neve 1073 or UAD 610.
But watch out. The Sweetspot is small. Don’t move Your head to much by the recording. The nose have to be centered on the capsule.
Now I’m happy to own one. Thanks to You too Mr.Svedin.
Like others have said... raw sound (NO EQ!) IS the only meaningful comparison to make. I discount this comparison completely for that reason.
My preferences for that vocal is:
1. C - Upton
2. A - Bock
3. B - Gap
Thanks. I picked the Bock. Truly regret selling my Sound Delux 251 (Bock) years ago. Glad I was able to identify it.
I liked B and C, but B the most.
They're all really beautiful honestly. It makes me really happy to know I picked C and I own an Upton personally and know In my heart I still shouldn't probably ever sell it. Awesome video
That's the best feeling! Thanks for watching
thanks so much for doing this! I was really feeling C the whole time, it felt like it was the most balanced and it took the EQ you applied very naturally. Big fan. Going to check out the raws now. really appreciate the time you put in here!
Thanks! Honestly we're splitting hairs here but it's great to hear them side by side. It's so much easier to judge and make a good decision then. Thanks for watching!
Glad i have a Bock 251
Bock hands down was closest. I've owed an original vintage 251 and a re-issue
Bock sounds good.. Really full on your voice.
In my opinion A was the best, then C and last B. Thank you for a good microphone comparison!
Same Ear and here ✌
Same
EQ needs to be the same on all mics. Preferably none. Also, no gain reduction. Thanks!
If you download the files you will get access to them completely raw. Thanks for watching
Excellent comparison.
I never listened to them before but i assumed that the more expensive the better will sound and i was right, i could identify them correctly.
That's what I would have guessed. It was close between A and C and I preferred A mostly. B immediately stuck out as distorted sounding. C had some sibilant that I didn't like in certain parts.
I preferred the Upton from the blind test and the raw files confirmed my impression! Great comparison!
Awesome! Thanks for listening 💪
i think:
a. bock = driest, least intimate, least reverb
b. gap = most intimate, medium reverb
c. upton = most processed, medium intimate, highest reverb
my choice would be B or C,
B would be better, like someone whisper in your ear
Bock is the clear winner for me. The most natural, open and musical of them all.
Awesome! Thanks for watching
Did you ever notice the mkii version of the gap to sound different than the mki?
Listening to the song “meant to live” by switchfoot made me feel I’d like a brighter mic . I don’t think that’s a u47 ish type in the song . They emphasized the silibance in the song but I enjoy how the guitars are upfront and the vocals have a dreamy farther back tone, but the silibance helps it still feel present , the vocals sound epic to me in that song. Actually the whole song sounds epic in terms of tones .
Now I’m kinda wondering about a 251 type of mic or something that would give a similar flavor in the mix with electric guitars . I think a bit less mids and a nice top end is what can do the trick , that way the guitars can come in lively
Congratulations for the baby Christian! :D
In the blind test I preferred the Upton, followed by the Bock and the GAP. I think too that either one could work with ease in a mix. In this comparison I hear the Gap a little bit muffled maybe because you compensated the brightness with eq as you say in your comments.
I appreciate your videos a lot, very good quality, clear and concise. Thank you and see u soon!
Thanks! Yeah maybe I over compensated on the GAP. Since it was a tad brighter then the rest. Check out the raws and tell me what you think :)
@@Christian_svedinI heard the raw files and yes, the GAP it's a little bit more delicate with sibilance, but just a tad. The Bock exhibits the greatest proximity effect at least in this example, and for my taste the Upton it's in the right place. I'd be happy working with all of them. Cheers!
I was pretty sure the ones I liked were the Upton and Bock, but was wrong about which was which. I really like the Bock whenever I hear it. It was my favorite here.
Nice! The Bock is a bit more mellow. Nice low-end, not so 251 like. Thanks for watching :)
@@Christian_svedin , yeah it’s probably what I like about it, the mellowness.
Well done, thanks! I was lucky enough to do 4 tracks with an original E Lam 251, but that was a long time ago, and I mainly use a Stam SA67 or Neumann U87 these days. I've heard the Bock briefly and was stunned by the high quality, only the $9,000 brand new Telfunken U47 bested it for my voice in a quick shootout. So, I expected the Bock to take no prisoners here, but in this shootout the Bock was cloudy and muffled. The Gap was very good, but only the Upton had a little real mojo. A great mic inspires you and makes you sing better. Of the available high end new mics, I've found the Chandler Redd 47 to be the best overall, but it is pricey. That Upton sure would do the trick if you needed a 251 style mic though.
I had the chance to compare these mics to an original too. Scary close actually especially the Upton and GAP. I would say that the original was a bit better balanced. Upton has some clouded lowmids and the GAP is a bit to bright (not an issue though). I'm currently testing a very interesting prototype though 😎😁
Hey Martin, I believe I have seem your post/review on the Stam SA 251, how would you compare to the Upton 251?
You are so good as always! I so wish that you would do a Slate ML-1 Black Bird comparison to at least the 251.. as the Black Bird 251 is the general ML-1 favorite :)
Thanks! I'm sure the ML would hold up very well against these quality clones. I think it did very well against the Neumanns I compared it to :)
@@Christian_svedin I have the same view. That's why I sold most my microphones after trying out the ML-1.. even the very good U47 clones I built my self!
We live in a weird and wonderful world now days!
personally I use the ML-1 with BL 251 on almost everything.. :)
@@callehellstrom nice! Yeah I really liked it especially the BB expansion :)
@@callehellstrom hey bro!!! Im at the same descision like you! :D i want a 251 style mic, would u recommend me the slate with the blackbird version???
@@timuryesa Oh yes. I have it, and I sold most my other mics. Go for it!
The Upton had just a tad bit more high end polish that helped articulate the notes more, and sounded the most radio ready in my opinion.
Hey Christian did you try these mics out on Acoustic guitar? Thanks
C for me. Thanks for the comp.
Strange, usually in all shootouts the Bock was always the clear winner to my ears,, but not in this shootout,, this time i chose the GAP.
They are all beautiful. I did prefer the Upton. It seemed just a little bit more open for bigger in a way. Not much just a little.
I downloaded the raw files and it's Bock for me....very close and the Upton sounds superb but the slight sibilance breaking up on 'what it'SSS like' showed me I prefer the Bock by a hair.
A is the most neutral B is a bit darker C a little more lush with a touch of sizzle also. Not much more just a bit.
Very nice voice. nice vocal processing. i think use different eq. what reverb use please says.
Why on earth would you EQ them if you're trying to reveal how they are different?! No point in listening further when I heard that.
Congrats on the baby! Bro!!!! What about the VMS My Friend!?!?
Thanks! Sorry I don't own the VMS. I borrow most mics I've been using on this channel so I'm kind of in the mercy of my friends haha!
Thanks for the video :)
Do you know if the Upton 251 PSU is 110v or 220v?
Thanks!
I liked the Upton best but sounded like it had a low end boost you might have to tame in certain scenarios. The Gap was the most well rounded but lacked a little special sparkle and low end depth that the upton had. The Bock has the most character and saturation but not as much depth.
Also the differences could simply be hitting the compressor a little differently, especially with e the norm being more saturated depending if you have any pre emphasis / low pass settings on it.
All are phenomenal.
No shaming honest question, I’m fairly certain there’s also melodyne on your voice? I can hear your timbre change where you would expect to hear some pitch drift i the way that melody e does. I think hearing without that might change my opinions.
hey agree your point of view，i feel that ga is a little soft and less depth than the other two，but it less than half the price💰🌝
i thing the high is easy to add on when mixing，but the depth…
do you thing its possible to fix up the depth in post？🧐
I bought my Upton based on this video.
A sounded the most radio mix clean and even, B and C both a bit more intimate and full, perhaps a bit too much. Great videos, much appreciated!
Nice! No right or wrong I prefer C-B-A haha. All sound good though. Thanks for watching :)
thank you
Hello friend, thank you for these awesome videos
I don't know why when I listen to other channels, I see a clear difference in the sounds
I listened to most of your videos and downloaded the RAW files
I don't know what the problem is, but the sounds are very similar EVEN NEUMANN U47 VS TELEFUNKEN ELAM251
It seems that you are using settings or HARDWARES that approximate sounds from each other
I don't know I'm not a professional like you but that's how I felt
I also have another observation that you can try singing more closely TO THE MICS , maybe this will help TO clarification some subtle DETAILS
I think it comes down to that's my voice. It will sound quite alike no matter what 🙈. I usually record like 30cm or so from the mic which I think is correct. I don't use any HW processing on the raw files other then pre going into the Interface. Thanks for watching ✌️
@@Christian_svedin thank u .. you r good singer .. keep going
Eq defeats the whole purpose for the comparison... rendering this video useless.
If you add EQ - you're not hearing the character of the Mic - what's the point of the Test - to get each mic to sound the same by adding EQ or to hear how each mic is voiced with ZERO EQ and ZERO Compression - that's how you test - as soon as you add EQ , compression or ANYTHING else in the chain then the Test is pointless.
Don't know why you eq'd them. It contaminates the test. You should post the originals with no adjustments for a fair test.
You can download the raw files 👍
C had a slight hollowness to it, but the best transient response. B was good but not great. A was the least dynamic, but had a great body and presence. Next time, it would be best to use no compression. I don’t really understand why engineers use compression, because you lose the transient energy. Great singing!
C is the best for me, it sounds balanced and emotionally engaging.
A is second and B third, but I would not care for these, but rather record with a cheap Audio Technica.
Nice! I don't use that much compression at all tbh. You can download the raw files too if you like to hear them completely raw 👍✌️
@@Christian_svedin Try to use no compression (not even 2-3db) and listen after a certain time. We tend to think that vocals sound unprofessional without a bit of compression, it’s not the case. I have a Hardware Cl1b and don’t use it but rather use clip gain and automation.
@@Jjf109nine I do use clip gain, vocal rider and such. I do agree people overdo it. I like it when you don't hear the compression at least on acoustic softer music. Everything has it's place though and I guess it's all subjective
Hey Christian, how would the NLP ELAM fit in here or against GAP or an Original? been looking at all of the high end clone options, I’ve have noticed the price on the NLP is great in comparison.
The new Elam GAP is more mellow which I personally like. The NLP is pure quality but is brighter.
@@Christian_svedin thank you !!
@@Christian_svedin is the NLP as bright as the New Original Telefunken?
@@time8162 I haven't used the clone from T.F USA I'm afraid
@@Christian_svedin have u tried an Original Vintage one? Wonder how the NLP compares . Seems it’s the only other with a German Made Capsule
Anyone know the order of the mics?
A Bock B GAP C Upton
Do you notice a lot of self noise in any of these? I’m looking to get a high end mic but the last couple hi end tube mics were a little noisy for me. Curios if the Upton has noise like that
No, no tube mics should be noisy. My 60y vintage mics are as silent as they can be! Check out my latest GAP Ela M 251E episode. That one is a beauty 🤩
@@Christian_svedin ok, glad I returned it then. It was a C12vr. Probably just something wrong with it. Would the Upton be a good choice for hip hop vocals with a 5k budget? (Tried to download the files but my Mac couldn’t open Rar)
@@chandeleerjet5637 yeah doesn't sound right! I'd go with the new GAP 251 or GA8000. The 8000 is super clean and smooth 👍
@@Christian_svedin you haven't used a Manley Ref C?
@@zeitakulobusta9708 yes there is an episode on the channel with the Manley. Honestly I was quite disappointed. There are better options in that range for sure!
What preamp were these going into?
C, A, B IN THAT ORDER !
And the answer is-
C- Upton 251
A- Bock
B- GAP
Why would you EQ them? That’s doesn’t make sense at all
A,C,B
+1
Man great voice!
I like C. The cheapest . They aint that much difference for the price.
The Upton won me
Is the gap the mkI or mkII version in this video?
Hey! MKII, you also have a video on their latest Ela M 251E on the channel 👍
@@Christian_svedin I want a 251 style mic what is your opinion between: gap mkII and telefunken tf51? The others, Bock…. are too expensive for me. And what I forgot is, is the wa251 worth it and can it stay after mixing in the same league with the others?
@@run3157 Oh, can only comment on mics I've tried and the GAP 251 is a great mic. I also enjoy the Sony C80 if you want a FET affordable mic. Haven't tried any TF mics I'm afraid.
@@Christian_svedin thank you I already own the Manley reference c and the WA8000 and I am very happy with booth. But I need a Telefunken Style mic now therefore I asked you.
@@run3157 sell the Manley get something better. It performed quite poorly when I demoed it. The WA251 was a bit cleaner then the GAP which had more of that lowmid character that a 251 has. Both where quite nice but I think I prefer the GAP
Congratulatiom for new born puppy. Pl. care for kid. Start after 6 months or you both come for review.
C is best on this Vocalist
" The microphones are treated a bit differently EQ wise ???? " What a pointless video !
I don't think so. I usually present my tests in a mixed context. You can download the raw files if you like 👍
another useless mic comparison, Please in future let each take longer ie At least one line !
You can download the raw files 👍
@@Christian_svedin - Just a few seconds more is all it needs , Don't have time to download files.