People Want a Pastor
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2014
- It's popular for evangelicals to say every member is a minister. Three church leaders discuss whether that idea truly reflects Scripture and the best interests of the church.
In this video: Matt Chandler, Tim Keller, Michael Horton
Permalink: thegospelcoalition.org/resourc...
"Baptism......after a profession of faith." hahahahahahah. Gosh, that killed me. love the unity even though they disagree.
As a bi-vocational Pastor, I've always viewed my role to essentially be three-fold: 1. To equip - that is to teach the unadulterated word of God so those who hear it can learn it and take it to heart, growing closer to Christ each week 2. To encourage - To ensure I do not perform all the ministry myself, but encourage the church family to pray, grow and step out in their faith and not fear failure but to grow through it .3. To empower - To ensure as members determine their gifts and talents, they have a place to exercise those gifts within the Church or outside of the church, and that they are loved and empowered to do it.
Would love to hear your definition of a "bi-vocational Pastor".
I would love a pastor who first shepherds his home well.
That would be nice, but our family members are just like parishioners; they have their own minds. Just because I’m saved does not mean my wife and children are saved. We pray, we instruct, and we discipline. What else can a pastor do?
Wonderful conversation!
I've prayed to God for the ministry where my family and I can feel at home and a pastor who loves as God loves. I know God will answer in his own way and in his own time. I have faith that my home and pastor exist. I will just keep praying so I am ready to receive when God is ready to give. I'm not a shepherd. I'm a sheep. I really, really want to find and love my flock... whoever they are. 🙏🏾❤️
How true that people want a Pastor than just a Sunday Preacher / teacher. The Salt & Light concept for all believers is maybe a more dynamic way to go than a corporate model, be a healthier option. But above need for Shepherd / Pastor who knows his sheep / member is really the need in a local church. I agree.
Thank you! And we do want a pastor.
of course we do, ( if we are believers led by the Spirit) because God has designed the church to function with a pastor, gifted as a pastor; (Ephesians 4:11).
We all are members of the body, an ear cannot say to the eye I don't need you. God calls and equips us accordingly. Managing church life/ministry versus our regular lives is the same struggle a father has in working his job and being a father, a husband, and friend or other role. God calls us each to our own role, position, whether it is presenting the gospel as a waitress or grocery store clerk or as an usher/greeter, or both.
John 13 : 20 " I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send
accepts me ; and whoever accepts me accepts the One who sent me."
Thank you for posting this conversation. I resonated with many parts of it. As pastors, I’m pretty sure you won’t be pleased with my comments...but, they are comments that I no longer feel constrained to suppress.
I faithfully attend a church...but, I have resented for a long time the very things you discussed. I refuse to get involved in church programs because based on many years experience, I am convinced, the organized expression of the church cannibalizes it’s own. It gobbles up a believer’s energy, time, relationships...for its organizational agenda’s.
Sadly, after having sacrificed relationship with my own beloved children... on the altar of serving the church. (Since it equals serving God)...I have repented ... I have released myself from the church’s desires and expectations...so I have time and energy to live...to carry out my personal responsibilities and to be free to connect with unbelieving people in my family and in the community.
Thank you for saying the church “uses” people...because that is exactly how it feels...This is one reason why many genuine believers are existing the visible church...they are tired of being manipulated and used for the leaderships ambitious agenda’s to “grow” the church...Or on a more subtle level...they are tired of feeling control led. They are tired of the church keeping them totally tied up with this, that and the other thing...Things the “church” thinks is good for them.
Another thing that really gets me...with all these programs...I keep looking for some indication of the leading of the Holy Spirit...as it was in Acts... Leaders decide...and then, the “non leaders” are recruited to carry out the “vision”.
People like myself lose confidence that God is at work in our lives...that we can have a vision, calling or purpose...other than to feel like slave labour for someone else’s ideas, desires, “vision”.
All around me, I see others still choosing this way because they think they are serving God...I am no longer convinced.
I no longer encourage an unbeliever or a seeking person to come to church...because I don’t want them to be consumed...I want them to come to Jesus...and to know HIM in a very real way...for them to be convinced that with Jesus in their life...they can have complete confidence that He will not steer them wrong...I trust GOD to work in their lives...so, I don’t try to manipulate them into attending church...What I do is: steer them to pod casts, you tubes, books...interesting conversations about important topics... I communicate openly, honestly...they know I have a deep personal faith in Jesus...I encourage them to seek, knock and ask...believing GOD will show up if they do...and He will lead them into the way...for His great name sake.
It’s not that I haven’t tried in the past to encourage non believing friends to come to church...They came once...
They are not as blind as Christians think they are. They may be blind to the gospel of Jesus...but, they can see very well what Christians choose to be blind to.
I love Jesus. I love fellow believers. But, I am often grieved by “the church”.
Billie Corbett I really appreciate your comments and I think your observations are valid about many individual congregations. I also totally agree that we should be in relationships with Unbelievers. However, the Bible teaches that we are to work towards unity in the faith which, as I read it in most of Paul's letters, means we become joined with other Believers and live out Acts 2:42. Jesus spoke out against the Jewish leader's and corrected the money changers at the temple with a whip. He was bold and he was willing to speak the truth. We need to meet together and be part of the reconciliation process. A church led by pastors unwilling to receive correction should be avoided but there are many congregations that need people like you to love the people in the Church and speak the truth with gentleness. I am so sorry that you were hurt by people that should have helped you love your kids, not separate you from them. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Well, my husband and I are victims of our children's obsessive desire to seek leadership as volunteers within our church. They have no time for us, and have substituted their church community group for their actual, real-life "family". We almost never get to see our grandchildren.
Billie Corbett, I completely see eye to eye with you. Thanks for your comment!
@@franceseattle praise the Lord that they are able to serve the Lord.
Yes. We must have public worship together and we also need all Christians to live full orbed Christian lives in the world which includes time with their family. The church is not to be like a controlling cult.
THE LORD IS MY PASTOR!
Are you part of a local church?
If you are not submitted to leaders of a local church, you are rebelling against the Lord and not following His pastoring (Hebrews 13:17).
Covenant Caswell I submitted to the Holy Spirit, He is the authority over me.
Any man is infallible, but the Holy Spirit is never wrong.
The Bible encourage us to test ALL spirits. Psalm 23 said THE LORD IS MY PASTOR, what do you think that means and why? Because the Lord knows that in the last days found a biblical correct pastor is hard to find. So, don’t judge before knowing what’s happening in my life. Don’t be a christian bully.
@@leslie712torres :
The Holy Spirit says, "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you." (Hebrews 13:17.) He inspired those words. You're right that the Holy Spirit is never wrong. So if you are not submitting to the leaders of a local church, you are rebelling against the authority of the Holy Spirit. You are not following the Lord, the shepherd. If you are using inner feelings to avoid following the words that the Holy Spirit inspired, you are deceiving yourself.
Covenant Caswell sure, whatever you said. If you have pastor who preach the truth of the Bible, not a prosperity gospel or New Age based sermons, keep it. When I found one like that I’ll let ya know.👍🏻
People don't want a pastor--they are told they need one.
Interesting video! Thanks!
A comment on pastors for those who want to know what is right. A pastor is not an officer. Elder and Deacon are officers, this can be clearly shown from the scriptures. But elders are told to pastor the flock.
Paul tells the Ephesian elders to take heed to themselves and to the flock over which God has made them overseers. Peter tells the elders to "pastor the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight"
Elders are supposed to pastor there is no office of pastor. Unless you call the office of an elder the office of a pastor but then it's the same thing anyway.
You need to read this. You are mistaken
1 Timothy 3:1 ESV
"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task."
Can God teach his child personally. The one he created.
WHO NEEDS A PASTOR THAT DOES NOT PREACH FROM A KING JAMES VERSION [GRACE BY FAITH ALONE]?... IF JONATHAN EDWARDS AND JOHN CALVIN LIVED IN HONOLULU TODAY... I WILL FOR SURE COME TO ONE OF THEIR CHURCHES... IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HEAR SOME ONE THAT HAVE GREAT THOUGHTS... SINCE I'M INTO GREAT THINKING MYSELF... AND WHO NEEDS A CHURCH WHEN YOU READ 40-CHAPTERS IN THE KING JAMES BIBLE PER DAY, AND PREACH 40 PAGES ON THE STREET (FOR A LIVING... EVERY SINGLE NIGHT...FOR A LIVING... AND SLEEP ON CARDBOARD... WAITING FOR NEXT DAY TO WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST IN A NON-STOP FASHION) ???
james said faith plus works = justification , it's how the non elect get saved. calvinism is to narrow minded.
are you joking? how is a disastrously broken human supposed to earn their salvation?? Ephesians 2:8-9 all day man!
Chris Procopio read acts where paul says god commands all to repent . We all have a conciousness telling us if where doing right or wrong so no one is without excuse. Becoming a saint of god is by election of God's grace. Total depravity is faulty .
Maybe you should change your first comment to faith+works=sanctification then?
Chris Procopio I'm talking about the book of james where he says faith without works is dead