How does a natural gas regulator work
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
- I take apart a natural gas regulator used in gas furnaces. Adjusting is covered. What makes it work is covered.
This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits.
Thanks. Probably one of the best explanation without relying on engineering terminologies. I learned more in a few minutes than an hour of class. Thank you.
Thank you. I have learned a lot from you since I tried to understand and maintain my ~80 years old winter air conditioner. It has gas train control and regulators. Gas regulator, then gas solenoid valve. I replaced the diaphragm at gas solenoid valve last winter with diaphragm from leaf blower carburetor repair kit. It was completely dried and cracked. I suspect the diaphragm in the gas regulator is also about to fail. Since the bleeding vent pipe at pilot light is not on. (The pilot light has it’s own tube.)So I think it’s still intact. I changed wire to fan motor in summer. The insulation became brittle. Seems all parts are still original except fan motor control. I bought a combination valve to upgrade the gas train control system if any parts fail this winter or I will replace it in next summer.
New to trades/HVAC. Looking inside at the ‘guts’ of components is so very helpful and deeply satisfying. Having an education based on a series of truths informed by professionals with an aptitude for teaching is priceless. Thank you 🙏
Welcome
GFM
I like the presentation of this video, the way the Reguulator is cut in half for the visual, very good.
I'd always understood the principle, but not the actual mechanics. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
best explanation. once you said the valve "modulates" in between the closed and open position, it just clicked with me. thank you!
Awesome man! This is so far the best explanation. Real parts..no animation. Real feeling. Thanks
Welcome
GFM
I wish I had a 10th of Grayfurnacemans knowledge. This guys videos always come through when I need to understand something technical.
Excellent explanation. Had difficulty grasping how it worked and instantly understood it after seeing this video.
Me too.
This was a great educational video.
Thank you
What a good teacher, great explanation i won't forget this.
Bravo! It was so awesome to see the actual cross section of the regulator.
Excellent explanation. Thank you very much . I especially liked the explanation of the situation where the diaphragm breaks. Thank you again.
The small hole on the top side of the diaphragm is to control the opening and closing speed of the regulator. Informative video none the less.
Again, what great information. Learn something on your channel every day. Thank you.
Welcome
GFM
This video has been super helpful for my plumbing class. I needed a visual understanding just just verbal.
great job sir
you explained the regulator as i want and also as other people want
the way you speak, indicate, zooming in and out is helpful
thank you buddy
Welcome
GFM
Thanks much. Seeing the internal working really helped make it super clear. Intuitive even. Much appreciated
I’m installing myself a pressure regulator .. I hope all works well . Thanks for all the explanation.
Welcome
GFM
Helpful video. I now know what's in these units. Using a gas stove without a regulator makes it clear what they are there for.
Great video, easy to understand with great visuals....Thank you
Welcome
GFM
So simple love your explanation No need to get to technical straight forward the way I like it 👏
I believe the fuel regulator on autos works the same way. If the diaphragm malfunctions the vehicle will run rich. Thanks for the great video
You are right! The pressure downstream will be enough to keep the diaphragm closed until the pressure drops. Thanks. I will do a correction video.
sir ive experience about the smal hole above the diaphram, the hole smell like the gas flowing out,
wasnt that hole suposed to be just the breather of the diaphram and no gas should pass thru there?
@@endurofan9854 There is a small amount of gas that bleeds out the hole for normal operation of the regulator.
GFM
Excellent cutaway and mechanical demonstration! Simple, yes, but the stuff that patents are made of.
Shannon Ware Yup. The simpler the better.
GFM
Thanks for taking time to explain it to the dummies like me
Welcome
GFM
Thanks for taking time to make this video. Much appreciated.
+Swapnil P Welcome
GFM
Man, you post some great educational videos!! Thank you for taking the time to put this great material out there!!
Excellent video! I believe the bleeder hole is also there to relieve the pressure on the top side of the diaphragm. When the diaphragm moves up there needs to be a bleed-off of the air above it. If this gets plugged up you can get valve chattering. Great job!
Rob Prebil You are correct. That reference to outside air pressure is necessary for proper operation.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman Great video. We've got a project in Canada, many of regulators indoor installations, so we custom the bleeder part to threaded connection for through pipe, in case of the natural gas get indoor.
Great video. Very thorough and professional!
Hi, wonderfully explained, could you make a video about the difference(s) of propane and natural gas regulator?
Other than the pressure, there really is no difference.
GFM
That's the great thing about youtube. You can watch until it works. Thanks for the support.
GFM
Welcome
GFM
Yes i was watching watching until i poke the litle hole on top of regulator and nobody mentioned on 20 videos
the diaphragm and shaft part of the regulator reminds me of the old mechanical fuel pumps on cars from the 1950s. some had two lobes one to pump the fuel and one to create a vacuum to run the windshield wipers.
You are showing your age.
GFM
grayfurnaceman
LOL. not really, a friend and I were collecting and restoring 1940's / 1950's cars as a hobby. that is before his health started failing.. he taught me all I know about the old cars. for him it was from experience. so he passed this knowledge to me :)
I have rebuilt a few.fuel pumps and carbsin th past. as you most likely know the old cars had plenty of elbow room under the hood for repair work. not like today's cars where you practically have to remove the engine and turn it upside down to change a damn spark plug
Ha Ha Ha
Very clear explanation in simple manner.thanks
Dude in a quick video, you taught me better than my teacher did in my entire G2 course
Very nice explanation! Getting ready to convert from propane to natural gas, so I need to understand. thanks
Welcome
GFM
Great video on explaining how this gas regulator works!!!!
Had to watch this as I’m installing a generator in our home. Need to add 3-4 in WC
Thank you for your detailed explanation!
Good video I would've loved to have seen this before I went to gas school
Nicely explained
Regulator vents must be piped outside or the regulator must be outside. The only exception I know of is regulators on gas valves. Hope this helps. GFM
Your best repair is the combination gas valve. Cost will probably be the same. The valve usually comes with reasonably good instructions. Most important is the gas pressure setting. The reason I say it is probably 3/4" is the pipe is sized by interior size not outside.
Very clear! Thousand thanks!
Welcome
GFM
Thanks! These videos are amazing. I learn more when listening to you often times than when I do going to trade school. No offense to the trade school I attend, but you're just better.
Probably not better, just a different way to show it. Thanks
GFM
How often do the diaphragms wear out. They're pretty much a moving part right. Here in the UK medium pressure regulators are set to work at at max of 75 M/bar. They're designed to govern domestic dwellings at 22 Mb constant. They can only be replaced or adjusted by the energy service providers. What tests can you carry out on multifunction valves ( warm air units ). They're very common in Canada and America right? Is it thermocouple test, solenoid test & working pressure test? What other safety features do warm air and open flue boilers have? I really enjoy your videos. You explain very clearly. How do atmospheric sensing devices operate?🤔
Thanks
Awesome knowledge given by you, but it can be more accurate if you can add the law on which pressure regulator work. And you are also request to upload the video of diaphragm and turbine gas meter working principle.
Thanks
Amit Kumar
these are great for flamethrowers when you need to keep a constant pressure while the volumes change and it wont overfill to the point that the tanks rupture
So in effect, spring force is never more than the gas pressure force. This allows the load of appliance gas use to modulate the balance between spring force and gas pressure. When appliance is off, no load is available to empty the downstream side of the valve and the gas pressure (always more than spring) now seals the valve.
The question I have is does increasing downstream load effectivey provide a vacuum to the diaphram and sucks it down thereby opening the valve which then fills the void with gas?
There is no vacuum. It is all above atmosphere pressure. So, when load reduces the downstream pressure, the spring opens the valve farther.
GFM
Do you have a tutorial for commercial gas ovens in a restaurant setting? I have a Southbend oven with two gas burners in the oven that shut off after a few minutes. The pilot remains on, just the burners in the over shut off, the 6 burners up on top stay on as long as i need them. Any ideas.
Is there a fla me sensor on each burner?? And if they all acting alike - we can say that it is definitely the stove regulator-- what makes them go out - will I know when I change the regulator by UT's looks if it I' out! - thanks again!!
You did a great 👍 job
Do you have a video on Zero Pressure Regulator (ZPR)?
GFM,
Thank you, great video and long time subscriber to your channel. One aspect to a gas pressure regulator that I may have missed and seemingly can’t find an answer to is the “why”. I’m helping a friend add a gas range to his house. He has a gas regulator already installed on his line not far from the furnace and gas water heater. If the gas meter coming in to the house steps the pressure down and each appliance has their own valve, why would a gas pressure regulator be needed? Most homes including my own don’t have post meter gas pressure regulators installed. His does. I’m having a hard time understanding why. And if it’s possibly not necessary, I’d like to consider tapping into his gas line pre regulator to run his kitchen range as it would be more efficient to tap in pre regulator if advisable to do so. Thanks GFM!
The regulator at the meter reduces the line pressure to 8 in wc. Most appliances are designed for less than 4 in wc. Most gas valves in appliances have a built in regulator to make this change. Gas ranges usually do not have this regulator because the cooktop uses manual valves.
As for the regulator on the gas line, if the house is very large with a long run from the meter, or has very large appliances, it may be supplied 2# gas. That regulator is there to reduce that pressure as the appliances can only accept the 8" wc. Hope this helps.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Thank you GFM!! That’s the missing link. Very, very helpful. It is a relatively larger house and it makes sense that incoming pressure might be higher to account for pressure drop post meter. I was stumped and that is extremely helpful! Thank you SO much! I couldn’t find an explanation out there and you nailed it.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience, I do appreciate that. Full clear your video, and easy to understand. Do you have any info about how the gas convertion kits works? those used in gas engines of electric power plants?
I don't have anything specific. These are pretty much manufacturer's instructions.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Thank you, I guess this devices work similar yo the gas regulators you've described, feeding gas on demand.
Hey GFM I found this ua-cam.com/video/CfM6D65MC_w/v-deo.html
Thanks for the great video :)
Thank you for making this video
Welcome
GFM
Beautiful cut away! Thank you.
Welcome
GFM
Great presentation thank you good Sir
Welcome
GFM
thanks very much for the great video! it helped me a lot!
i think u have a little mistake at time 4:11. you say that when the machine is closed there is zero pressure under the diaphragm but if it were true, the diaphragm would come down...
Thanks for the support
Thanks, very well explaned and easy to understand.
Welcome
GFM
Great video! Saved me a bunch if time and money. Thank you!
Welcome
GFM
So, because the outlet is being evacuated, the pressure reduces because of the gas expanding into the outlet volume?
Thank you for such nice video.
Welcome
GFM
Awesome video. Although I don't think I understood until the 5th time that the spring puts pressure down on that valve... got it now! ;)
Great job love this video
So if the gas cylinder is open and the cooking appliances are fired up and i close the stove top , dose that me the regulatore stops the has from flowing through to the stove
Thanks. I got exactly what I wanted. Thanks.
Welcome
GFM
I have a question about the diameter of the outlet on the gas meter. It is currently 1" diameter. I will have somewhere above 90' of pipe from the meter to the furthest appliance. Around 300 000 BTU/h. And standard 7" water column on the house side. So I would like to attach a 1.5" pipe to the meter. Can you install a 1.5" diameter pipe outlet on the gas meter with 1" outlet? From my understanding, attaching 1.5" pipe to the 1" outlet on the meter would create a bottle neck right there? Thanks
Even though there is a restricted size at the meter, it will work normally. The meter is not the installer's responsibility. If you think the BTU load is too high, contact the supplier.
GFM
Good work!
Thanks for sharing!
What can cause a gas regulator to jam or become faulty ?With the spring not pushing far down enough onto the valve. To allow the correct amount gas intended for the device attached. In our case a bbq.Having problems with the gas supply needed to reach full flame sized fire when the bbq is fully switched on high.
mews56 Assuming this is a propane bbq. Probably, the regulator is too small. Go the next size up. Hope this helps.
GFM
Some regs have adjustments and some don't. If there is a screw slot under the cap it is. As for the weed burner and orifices, orifice sizes, pressures and BTU output are available on the web. Careful here, you are designing a burner and leaks or KABOOMS are possible. Propane is heavier than air and will build up in low spots. Not trying to tell you not to do it, but know your limits. The pressure washer vid will be done when and if I get a mule to do the vids on.
GFM
It's been 20 degrees outside for 4 days and all of a sudden my regulator is not working. There's good pressure in the upstream,, but nothing on the downstream. Did my regulator go bad or should I increase the spring pressure? I hate to have to go buy a new one and install it out here. Was hoping for a quick fix or some sort of adjustment to make it flow again.
I am assuming the system is propane.
You could be low on propane. Adding more could help.
Do not adjust.
The regulator could be frozen. Gently! heat the regulator. No flame, hair dryer will work. Be sure not to overheat.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thanks for reply it's a natural gas, on one inch line. Ended up buying a brand new regulator. 180 bucks. Bada bing,,, bada boom,,, I have my gas back on!!! Ain't nothing a big old pipe wrenches,, won't take care of. Nearly a foot of snow here,, say it might drop down to seven below. All is good with the universe right now. Had to drive about an hour to get to the industrial surplus store store
Tanks again! 🕺🏻
Helped me solve a problem. Thanks.
Welcome
GFM
Nice video thanks for posting. From the pinhole, is it sometimes piped to an airvvent where incase there is a leak vents out to the atmosphere?
I'm having a real hard time understanding the "lock up pressure" in relation to this. this video helps but could you clarify for me to make sure I understand properly. thanks for all your video they help a lot.
what kind of regulator is that.i am trying to buy a 1989 honda car.and the owner says it need a gas regulator valve.
It is for natural gas. Will not work on an auto.
GFM
Lock pressure.. the pressure on the outlet side when no gas is being used. Usually a little higher than the set point. If the lock up keeps rising with no appliances being used you may have a seat issue
can you adjust with a screwdriver while running gas on the hob? so you actually see the difference
You can, but the setting won't be accurate until the cap is replaced.
GFM
I had 2 propane tanks. One for my house and one for my shop. I eliminate 1 tank for the shop and ran 1" plastic to the shop from the house. Is there a chance that the pressure in the system needs to be increased? The reson is we are now noticing soot on the pans while cooking. Thanks!
Yes. There are sizing charts for propane. Another possibility is the low temps have lowered the pressure in the tank. When you had 2 tanks there might have been enough volume to keep the pressure up. Hope this helps.
GFM
I am assuming this is a furnace and not a kitchen stove. There should not be a flame sensor on each burner. The change should be immediate.
GFM
Your first statement was 7 inches of water column. Low pressure gas systems are measured in water columns. Low pressure gas service lines do not have regulators.
All gas service lines, high or low have pressure regulators. Just take a look at your meter.
GFM
Maybe in your state
In the world. Look at your meter, there is a regulator beside it.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I work for the gas company and low pressure systems do not have regulators Only 2lb services or greater.
@@davidwenhold578 This gets more ridiculous as it goes. I can show you regulators on ALL systems. 7" wc, 2# 5# whatever. Most residential distribution lines run 16 to 19#. You don't want that up against your gas valve that is rated for 1/2" wc.
GFM
My Kenmore stove is 9 years old. I can smell gas when stove is turned on. Ignitors work, light with a striker, and flame is very small, sometimes going out. It is like this on all burners. As I continue to light with a striker, the stove lights, and flame continuously accelerates, then is perfect. After which, all burners begin to light fine. do you think that my problem is the regulator?
Awesome!! Thank you for your time & dedication! Greatly appreciated!!
i may reduce the piping and go with a new regulator its an old Muller furnace if i could replace it with the same regulator it would be easier but that could be costly not sure what to do
this video is awesome ! I still can't believe you take apart this regulator haha
Regarding propane, I don tthink the PG regulator has an adjustalbe reg., unless it is under the cap. I am trying to make a weed burner with 5 or so orificies. Do you know if I can adjust the amount of gas or feeding the burners, if I use 42/100ths or 30/, by turning the screw in the PG reg. Can you do a vidio on a pressure washer accuator?
Good video very understandable and cutaway valve is great.Thanks
so, when gas is coming throughout the bleed hole it means that the valve needs to be replaced urgently, right?
Yes
GFM
Thank you for that explanation. Thoroughly describes how the valve actually works. I have a Maxitrol valve that I intend to use on a generator. The range of the valve is 3" to 6" of pressure. My generator requires 6". Do I screw the adjusting screw all the way down to get to 6" of pressure, or is 3/4s of the way down sufficient? Also, do I need to use copper tubing to vent the vent hole to the outside of my indoor generator room, or can i use some type of plastic tube. Much thx in advance.
+Buxton252 I would adjust using a manometer to check pressure. I would use plastic or aluminum. In some areas natural gas has a high percentage if sulphur that can corrode copper. Hope this helps.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman Thank you so much. That's great info.
you need to use a pressure gauge to adjust the pressure regulator. don't play by ear.
Thank you!
Great video. Thanks for the demo. I just took a test and one of the questions was... Name two purposes of a gas regulator? I obviously know one is to regulate pressure. However stumped on what the second purpose would be. Any help would be appreciated.
You know, it may just be volume control.
GFM
Are you saying it's a trick question?
Kind of.
GFM
thanks! defiantly helping me get my B ticket in school, great videos
Here from Carson Dunlop!
So what what causes them to lock up at times on the regulator at the meter to where the pin on the valve has to be popped or pulled back up ?
Beats me.
GFM
Thank you for the video.
Sorry for the extended post…
I see this video is 11 years old so maybe someone out there can answer my question.
I am in the process of installing a new indoor tankless water heater.
I am trying to get an inlet static W/C reading at the water heater using a manometer.
The readings are kind of all over the place- within 1-2”.
I’ll take a reading and find out that it’s too high; I go out to the regulator & adjust it (counterclockwise) to get less pressure, then I’ll get the pressure at the water heater inlet to where I want it.
If I go back and check an hour or so later, it’ll be an inch or two higher at the wh inlet than what I previously measured 😡
I live in the mountains and it’s rather cold of late & my 1000 gallon LPG tank is outside exposed to the elements.
Am I going to get different readings depending on the temperature inside the storage tank related to the outside temperature?- gas could be contracted in the morning when it’s colder and expanded in the afternoon when it’s warmer?
Cold contracted gas less pressure
Warm expanded gas more pressure?
Or maybe the manometer that I borrowed is suspect and may be in need of calibration.
I just did order a manometer so I’ll will see what that tool provides
Thank you
Liquid Propane boils at about -30F. As it boils, the temp of the remaining propane reduces.
If the temp is low and the volume of propane is low, you may reach that -30F resulting in low pressure to the appliance.
Add more propane and check again.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman
Thank you
Update:
Just for the heck of it, earlier today I checked the pressure coming into my water heater and the manometer was showing “OFL” - Overflow!
I didn’t touch anything prior to the measurement.
So either the manometer is really off the rails or the home regulator I was adjusting is so old -20+ years, been sitting out in the elements subjected to below freezing temperatures- that when I was adjusting it ,possibly the diaphragm, spring or other innards were damaged(?) IDK
I am trying to find out if there are replaceable parts like the ones mentioned above that can be installed and then the regulator would work properly.
Thoughts?
For safety reasons, I did turn off the supply valve at the LPG tank being that the manometer is showing overflow.
Thank you
Extra-
I blew hard into the manometer as if blowing up a balloon and the manometer registered “OFL” (overflow).
Then I blew more gently into the manometer and it registered normally so it appears the manometer is working fine and that my home regulator may be suspect.
Not sure what else it could be🤔
I would certainly replace the regulator. You may want to look at the gas valves on all appliances. If they were subjected to a pressure above its rating, they may be leaking by internally.
GFM@@richardmiller2313
@@grayfurnaceman
My furnace did work properly this morning.
That was before taking a reading and discovering/realizing the overflow reading.
Thank you
Brilliant, thanks buddy :)
Big light bulb moment. Thank you.
Thanks for the support.
GFM
One more doubt is that if the cylinder is in full pressure does it close the valve completely without allowing to open anyway.
If the valve is working as it should, pressure will not build up.
GFM
Grate stuff very helpful with wording