Third Century Crisis | The Great Persecution | Roman History | Extra History | Part 5
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- 📜 History of Rome & The Third Century Crisis - Diocletian worked hard to pull together the Roman Empire from the brink of collapse but remember, his strategy was to return the Empire to some mythic past that really never existed in the first place. But that meant something had to be done about this new pesky religion that had shown up, one that centered an executed criminal. Something must be done about Christianity. Thus began The Great Persecution and the Cult of Martyrs that would grow to become the practice of saints. But even without the religious troubles, there was unrest brewing in the empire. Diocletian and Maximius retired, only for their sons to throw the empire back into civil war.
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Fun fact: Likely due to his large persecution of the Christians, Diocletian was the last person to be recognized as Pharaoh by the last followers of the Ancient Egyptian religion. The last Hieroglyphic inscription was carved in 394 CE, and was specifically dedicated to Year 110 of Pharaoh Diocletian, showing that these last remaining followers of the Ancient Egyptian religion in Philae refused to recognize any emperor after Diocletian as Pharaoh. By this time, most of Egypt had converted to Christianity, so this inscription gives us a unique perspective on the decline of Ancient Egypt...
Ancient egypt were already in decline anyway, its nation has been occupied for hundreds of years from persian to greek to roman thats the reason why their culture faded away
Not exactly true, Maximian (who was not as pro-Christian as portrayed in this video), Galerius, and Maximinus Daia (caesar, later augustus, who would succeed Galerius), were all acclaimed as pharaohs, all of whom were fiercely anti-Christian and pagan.
@@angusyang5917 That's true, Maximinus Daia was the last person to be given the title during his lifetime (He died in 313). Nevertheless, the last hieroglyphic and demotic inscriptions by the Egyptian priests, which were made many decades after these guys' deaths, all date them by Diocletian's reign. Retroactively at least, he was the last person they considered a legitimate Pharaoh.
That's.... really interesting, thanks!
@@wasneeplus No problem. Pharaonic history is an amazing topic :)
"He wouldn't dare suggest I replace the peace and happiness of this place, with the storms of a never satisfied greed."
My god that is a powerful line.
Cabbages are one hell of a drug.
@@Gorboduc 😆
@@Gorboduc Wild cabbages in fact produce a form of painkiller similar in quality to latex, so depending on what kind of cabbage he was growing they could have been drugs.
@@Gorboduc Wait no I'm thinking of wild lettuce.
@@XeranDereth Too late, I'm high on cabbage
Diocletian: MY CABBAGES!!!
Good one!
Somebody Offscreen: "Get up off of that man's cabbages!"
i was looking for a comment like this
The real MVP, right here.
_Perfection_
"Farming? Really? Man of your talents?"
Diocleation: "It's a peceful life"
To be fair that was the Roman standard during the republic . You just serve rome as a soldier for 20 years, then they gave you a piece of land and you become a farmer. This is awesome in my opinion.
Dario Barboni - hence explaining the constant need for expansion. Where else to get the land?
See those heads of cabbages on the ground? You like them? They make you smile? Me too. As long as this smile stays on my face, your head doesnt join them.
Keep smiling, farmers life is a happy life, yes?
May the force be with you
Diocletian, in his final years: “I’m too old for all this mess”.
Oh yeah. Men of culture
Lol
I'm getting too old for this shit!
I’m to old for this stercore. Latin for s)$&
The mess he was partially responsible for!
I know that I am pointing out something that probably 99.9% of people don't care, but Constantine is this episode has a different haircut to the one in the Early Christian Schism series.
Yeah! Can you imagine that? A person having TWO different haircuts during his life?! That's just silly.
#BoycottExtraCredits they are so inconsistent!!!
*PURGE THE ANIMATORS!*
OK , ROBERT! Start working on the excuses! This is even worse than the flags!
It is obvious that Walpole cut his hair
The irony when the tomb of Diocletian is now a Christian cathedral
Christians took it over and dumped his corpse into the river. It's fitting, I dare say.
Imagining dunking on a dead man that hard lol
@@johnohara4788 That was pretty much standard practice for anyone even slightly controversial in Rome.
Finally we converted Dioclectian
@@eyeofthepyramid2596 converted him into a duck
"If you could show the cabbage that I planted with my own hands to your emperor, he definitely wouldn't dare suggest that I replace the peace and happiness of this place with the storms of a never-satisfied greed."-Diocletian while his firends were killing each other and ruining his work until they all died and then killed himself.
Goes to show you, life's a crazy bag of marbles.
@@4idenn something something "Did marbles hurt you"
@@anadaere6861 No kiddo, I hurt me... I also hurt marbles
I feel worse about the marbles
@@4idenn in an alternate timeline
There's a Extra History episode towards Kiritsugu and an extra history episode towards abridged Kiritsugu
Interesting to see the Roman version of motivational posters, wonder how many Roman housewives had "Vivere, Ridere, Amare" mosaics in their villas
A M
_O_ R
I'm hoping that the digging at Pompeii will turn up a mosaic of a kitten hanging from a branch, with the equivalent of "Hang in there!"
Lmaooo
Vos tacebitis et iens
I love how Maximian looks like an annoyed dad at Chuck E. Cheese with his kids.
I've been to Diocletian's retirement palace. Its a beautiful place. After his death, Christian refuges moved in and turned it into a small town. Over the centuries, it's evolved into a city: Split, Croatia, one of the most beautiful cities I've ever been to. Someday I hope to return there.
Split is indeed beautiful, I hadn't drawn the connection myself between where Diocletian retired and the town I visited! I will have to remember for the next time I visit.
Given how briefly the last few of them have lasted, being able to RETIRE from being a Roman emperor seems to go farm cabbages seems like the ultimate power move
The romans, like almost any ancient people, were deeply religious and thought their gods ingrained into their culture and state. Not paying at least lipservice to their deities was equivalent to not accepting the Roman state as a whole. It is somewhat akin to how nationalistic states get very angry about people who ignore national celebrations, like national hymns or harming a national flag.
Hannes Geberzahn
I heard they thought Christians were atheists cause they worshiped only one god.
Or being a socialist.
@@joellaz9836 that I am not aware of. Romans had plenty of contacts with monotheism, e.g. through the judaic population and through some philosophical schools.
But as long as you publicly followed certain practices, and thus proved youe loyalty to the Roman state, you were allowed to believe many things in private. But there are accounts that some people thought Christians are cannibals, because of the "this bread be his body this wine be his blood" last supper rites, coupled with thr secretive nature of the first Christian groups. How widespread such believes are, or if they were blunt inventions I cannot say. But cannibalism was a HUGE taboo in greco-roman societies. So anti-christian propaganda could have contained such accusations.
@@Falcopa12 /r whoosh
@@joellaz9836 How does worshipping only one god make you an atheist? That just makes you a monotheist.
I remember in my theology class in high school we talked about how after Diocletian's persecution. The Christians fiercely debated whether those who publicly renounced their faith and continued in private should be allowed back in or not.
Yep, called Novatianism at first, then made a comeback called Donatism.
Peter himself did, and he redeemed himself for it.
"When in Rome..."
you had theology class in high school???
@@fakkajohan maybe it was just another name for a sort of christian education class. in my christian school, preschool to highschool always had a sort of christian education sort of class different schools all called it differently as. in my school, we always called it bible class or then later, the school just made sure everyone knew it was called CE class
The issue of Christians (especially the clergy) surviving persecutions by giving false renunciations of faith and handing over the holy books, even the "less important" ones, became a huge controversy in the Church when the persecutions ended, contributing to one of the major schisms/heresies of that period. Look up 'Donatism' for more details.
Edit: BTW, it was one of the better series (not that there are any bad Extra History series).
"not there are any bad Extra History series"
Suleiman the Magnificent: yes, definitely, there are no bad series, especially the one on me :)
That depends on who you are getting that information from
The last time I was this early, Romans were talking about this Jewish king in Israel
Jesus is not described as a present king over anything in Judea in his life time.
Robert Jarman bro it’s a joke.
Do you mean palestine
@@angrymumlukwarrior2249 לא הוא לא
@@angrymumlukwarrior2249 That was the Roman name of the place it gave after the Seige of Jerusalem in 70 CE.
There are a few theories as to why the West of the Empire didn't have as many persecutions.
One of them that the Emperors, mostly Constantius himself was already a Christian or at least sympathetic, so he did as minimum a job as possible.
Another one states that quite simply, there were not as many Christians in the West as there were in the East of the Empire. Not to mention the Center of the Christian world at the time was the Eastern Empire and not the West.
And the West had to deal with completely different problems compared to the east. So the Western Emperors probably did not see the whole thing as THAT big of a problem as Diocletian saw it to be.
No surprise that Constantius, the least persecution-happy of the tetrarchs would be succeeded by a son who legalized Christianity and became baptized on his deathbed.
Constantius already took Helena, a Christian, as his wife and had her raise Constantine.
Constantius be like to Diocletian:
If you have Christian Legionnaire, let me have them to avoid the persecution
Diocletian's retirement palace in Split is really a sight to see. Went there a few years ago expecting to find Roman ruins in the Old Town of Split...
But it's the other way around. Split was founded by people who took refuge inside the abandoned palace walls. The Old Town is entirely within Diocletian's palace.
Title card: shows a Roman next to a cross
Me: *wait that’s Illegal*
Constantine: I'll make it legal.
@@DanielGalimidi
Theodosius: "And for my next trick, I'll split the Empire in twain permanently."
Other Past Emperors: "OMFGods, nooo!!"
Wouldn't the cross just be a tool to a roman just like a guillotine to a frenchman.
@@devonprough3690 Imagine a new religion appearing in our times, idolizing guillotines and stuff. Brutal!
@@Archon3960
Theodosius: (dies)
Honorius and Arcadius: *Now this looks like a job for me!*
Christians: exist
Diocletian: *n o*
The issue was that it wasn't just that Christians existed, they actively defied the society around them until their negative reputation carried on the persecution beyond their actions.
Can u don't
Christians: How bout I do anyway?
Constantine: Oh but yeeeessss. I especially like that one God bit, since that implies I should be one Emperor.
pitty that didn't work out
Diocletian great persecution was so fierce that the coptic calendar (which basically the same as the ancient egyptian calendar) later adopted the first year of Diocletian reign as the first year of the martyrs calendar which still the official calendar of the coptic orthodox church till this day. It is the year 1736 of martyrs !
Christians: "We don't engage in man made wars, we are pacifists."
Constantine: "It's syncretism time!"
Christians: "Wait, wat?"
Elijah the warrior prophet was not a pacifist neither was Jesus when someone lied directly to Jesus about stealing funds that could have gone to the church they died immediately both the husband and wife they just fell dead sent directly to hell smited.
@@AlwaysDecent how Christian of him.
OG Christians: "we are pacifists"
Crusaders, Teutonic Order, Extremists, most people in a """Christian""" Cult: "Paci what?"
@@MrHanderson91 pardon?
@@MrHanderson91 Christian desire peace but doesn't mean they are pacifist.
Wealthy and powerful begin converting to Christianity
Dioclecian: "We need to stop this!"
Constantine the Great: "I'm going to do what's called a pro-gamer move."
Literally Constantine: Why venerate all these gods when I could go all in on ONE God to grant me victory. But which to pick...
By this sign, Conquer
"En hoc signo Vinci" and "One God, One Faith, One Empire" are pretty sick campaign slogans.
@@offduty23 You mean pretty slick and sweet, right
@handrii2958
Constantius: just leave my son alone. He can lead well.
Constantine: you don't dare touch my mom
"God buries His workmen but carries on His work".
~Charles Wesley
Based Methodist
Poor Ahmed Ziad Turk, having his name pronounced wrong every single time.
Him after watching Matt pronouncing his name
😿👍
It's good enough, actually.
Just the 'h' is a bit too silent
Whats wrong with their pronunciation? How is it supposed to be?
just curious, how is it supposed to be?
Judging by his name, he's probably Turkish, and I've heard a lot of Turks pronounce "Ahmed" the same way he does
off topic, but i have to thank you, i recently got out of the military and ive been having a difficult time, and you give me smiles for my day amd your videos make me happy i love the animation, thank you so much for what you do. stay safe and keep it up, thank you again so much
i love that saying "sometimes interesting problems have boring solutions" 5:25
"Thing's weren't getting better, but they weren't getting worse!" *earlier in the video* "Plunged into another civil war!" What's worse to a nation than civil war?
Rome was always having civil wars, the populous was somewhat used to it - generals would fight each other in small battles, and assassinations would occur palaces, but the majority of the population was unaffected by these power grabbing moves. "Civil War" in this case means a war between two guys and their respective armies, not two halves of the population, as we imagine Civil Wars today
How is being in acivil war worse than rome's status quo, being in civil war
the only thing worse than a civil war is two civil wars!
Also there was a sort of a Darwinian idea among some people that this is a good thing, since the winner would be the competent one. One of the greatest Roman Emperors Hadrian seems to have thought the same and would not name an hair expecting people to fight for his position and for best man to win. He was outmanouvered in that by his wife who likely forged his will to make one of the most promising officers of his into his heir. And she pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one.
@@Blazo_Djurovic That would be Trajan
Hadrian did chose an heir (Antonius Pius) and even chose an heir for his heir (Marcus Aurelius)
I demand we now call every period of succession crisis, civil war, and general disorder in the empire as "Rome was NOT in neat little rows."
This has been my favorite series yet. This series was just so good.
I would love a full episode about the Manichaeans you briefly mention here. It was a fascinating Syncretism of Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Buddhism, and Gnosticism. 3:16
I'll second that motion. Never heard of them before.
"a man who would turn back the clock to a glorified past that existed largely in his imagination rather than fact"
Empires rise and fall, but some things always stay the same.
I kid you not, one of my video recommendations on this video is Tucker Carlson's "when do we get america back?"
Ah... Tucker _"I hated looking at the stupid peasants from my childhood Castle"_ Carlson.
Such a tool.
He wanted to "Make Rome Great Again"
@@NotThatJojjo Well just look at Biden lmfao
It took exactly two replies to this comment for you guys to turn this thread into a complaint box against the Democratic ticket. Congratulations.
Well, the USA was richer, had less debt and a smaller wealth gap in the mid 20th century than in 2020, from what I read. It makes sense to miss 'the old America' on the one hand but on the other hand... there was segregation, Jim Crow laws, more inequality between men and women, etc. It depends on how you look at it and to what demographic you belong / what your sex is (and many other factors, of course).
We should Remember to give Thanks to Aurelian, the Dreamer who's dream we now live.
The restorer of the world, who died taking a piss
Melodic Meerkat I can relate
Just without the “Restorer of the World” and “Died” parts
His desire for one Empire, one God, one Emperor.
He helped the Roman people along the way to Monotheism.
he protected Civilization from absolute collapse.
Rome should have fallen there and then, the Alamani, The pretender Emperor's, and many other obstacles may have been too much for a weaker/incompetent Imperator.
Aurelian was the Pyre that the Pagan Roman world collapsed around.
in its ashes shined a new Light, one of togetherness and appreciation.
Civilization still survives, and the writings survived in the Churches that even foreigners and conquerors of Rome could not destroy.
Without his dream, we may have never have even known his or any Roman's name, perhaps the invaders would have just looted and destroyed all the Temples... thusly The Knowledge of Rome itself and what it accomplishes.
The Dream I speak of is the dream so many leaders and generals have had throughout history, To remake the world in their ideal imagine, to put the world back together with your own hands.
Aurelian truly earned his Title Restorer of the World.
Theres worse ways to go!
Aurelian got to feel the pleasure of emptying his bladder one last time (feelsgoodman) then surprised and killed.
Like Caesar said the night before he died...when asked how he would prefer to die over drinks with one of the conspirators (a close and trusted senator at the time)
"Suddenly and unexpectedly"
Extra history has taught me more than school ever will .
Yep
That's the reason why it's called Extra History
I agree but technically it is a form of school
I agree but technically it is a form of school
Speaking for many History teachers,
If the system stopped making us teach 1000 years of history in 90-180 days, and if Kyle would stop setting the textbooks on fire, then yes, everyone would learn more in class.
I often want to go into greater depth but am constrained by the system in place. Thankfully we have the internet and college to fill the gaps.
Funny thing about the Great Fire of Rome, Nero was wrong. It wasn’t the Christians who started the fire, but rather it started by accident. Before the outbreak of the fire, Rome was largely made of wood, and fires were a common hazard. There were 44 major fires in Rome between 31 BCE and 425 CE. Since Augustus’ reign, Rome was divided into 14 districts, with each district being watched by a cohort of firefighters. The fire that destroyed Rome in 64 CE actually began in one of the shops or food stalls that were around the perimeter of the Circus Maximus. On that hot summer night, the stocks of olive oil and flammable goods were often the most common cause of fires. And Tacitus tells us that the fire broke out anew in the Aemiliana District, destroying the Theatre of Taurus. Most of the city was not touched, but the historic centre was destroyed. Tacitus perversely introduces that the second outbreak was on the estate of Offonius Tigellinus, Nero’s praetorian prefect.
In reality, Nero was just as much a victim of the fire. Instead of just playing the lyre while Rome burned, Tacitus actually reveals that information was just a rumour, and that, in reality, as soon as Nero heard of the fire while at Antium, he raced back to Rome and began directing firefighting efforts. The fire stopped at Esquiline Hill, when ballistae destroyed warehouses and other buildings to create fire breaks. Nero also had temporary shelters made in his private gardens and on the Field of Mars. After the fire, he prohibited looting, cleared away the rubble and had grain barges dump it in Ostia. He also immediately began reconstruction on the city, with all the buildings made from marble and stone, so as to lessen the danger of fire. All the new building regulations were designed to make Rome a more appealing and attractive city. After the fire, life for most Romans went on as usual. Even Tacitus admits that a “more beautiful city” emerged after the fire. Yet the renovations were hugely expensive, and Nero even robbed the temples of their treasures to fund the building projects, and even devalued the currency of the empire. The aristocracy was hugely resentful of this, but there were no persecutions of Christians. Nero was particularly squeamish. He hated bloodshed and preferred more creative distractions. Under Nero, the Roman Empire experienced a flourishing of art and literature; he was also a huge philhellene, doing his best to integrate the Greeks and their culture into Roman culture. Developments in architecture and art during his reign were innovative and withstood the tests of time, and this was the motivation for the Renaissance. He was one of the emperors that was popular with the common people, but the Senate saw him as a complete disgrace, as their views did not line up with his own. The stories of Nero blaming and persecuting Christians only emerged in the 4th and 5th centuries, when Christianity had gained some legal status in the Roman Empire. In reality, Nero was seen as a weak, effeminate and cowardly emperor, much like the Ancient Roman equivalent of Medieval English Kings: Richard II and Henry VI. This made Nero seen as unfavourable to the aristocratic Roman traditionalists.
Also, there are some theories that Nero had become a Jew, and that later Christians just wanted to make him seem worse because of that.
Nero never believed that the Christians started the fire- they were just a convenient scapegoat to stop people from (probably unfairly) blaming him.
Hey all, I’m sure this won’t get seen but I wanted to mention how much of a positive influence this channel has had on my life. They introduced me to my favorite historical figure (Gaius Gracchus), but they have also truly inspired me to one day be so historically important that people will make videos like this about me.
Thank you
Hard to swallow pills: You will never be able to help Diocletian grow his magnificent cabbages.
Diocletian's motto must be "Make Rome Great Again"
Nah that was Aurelianus
5:30 Sometimes boring problems have interesting solutions
Moral of the story: If your system of succession depends on appointing your successor, make sure the person you select is heirless, a eunuch, and loyal to you.
So many succession crisises could have been avoided if heirs were appointed publicly with this rules in mind.
Yes because they were easy to find
@@lucasbeck1391 They aren't too hard to make.
@@Detahramet kinda hard to keep loyal then
“Judaism was respected”
*Hadrian laughs*
Well, to be fair to Romans, their two most rebellious and troublesome provinces tended to be Judea and Britania... The fact that they didn't put the entire nation to the sword the first time they rebelled, as they were very capable and willing to do when pacifying, speaks of their restraint.
Not only Hadrian.
you can't respect someone who starts a rebellion in your empire
@@seeyouchump he was the one that did em' in the most.
@@InfiniteA1E If I remember didn't the full slaughter start with a disobeying of orders. Hadrian had ordered the troops sent in to leave a specific temple alone they didn't and when everyone ended up dead, Hadrian, just kind of shrugged and said, "Now is as good a time as any to make it more Greek"
2:07
Kinda surprised that Extra Credits would commit a mistake like this, not portraying Nero as the blond waifu that she was
They've done mistakes like this before - in one video, they portrayed Henry VIII with dark brown hair and not his famous red hair
She??
@@artycuen3572 Google "Nero FGO" and be culturally elevated.
What the! I...I’m not sure what to make of this
Great stuff as always. Inspirational!
Diocletian eating his last cabbage, dying happily knowing the Christians have been vanquished and that his name will be cherished by all who live in that eternal empire forever.
Lol imagine if he learned that Christianity would end up being the official religion of the Empire
He actually died miserably. His wife and daughter were held hostage at the court of the eastern Caesar, Daia, and he couldn't get them released. And he had to watch his tetrarchic system fall apart around him. His abdication may have been admirable, but it left him irrelevant.
Then his tomb was converted to a cathedral and his body dumped in a river
@@GrandTemplarVigilant thats kinda funny
His body got chucked in the Tiber
Fun fact: Extra Cresits is on Oversimplified's subscribing list.
Nice
Diocletian announcing his retirement: Alright guys, it's been fun but I'm going to split now
Just wanted to thank extra history for informing people about christian persecution the most of the sources of education on this history people have access too school/church are either unwilling to go into detail because of potential inciting rants and/or lawsuits or focus on religious narratives and implications rather than the historical information itself.
Thank you for giving me a more informed perspective on the history of my religion I hope you and other educators are able to provide more similar content in the future.
Diocletian: *Exists*
Constantine: "Ding-Dong, your religion is wrong."
I mean, it is right.
Christians: *IS LOVING JESUS LEGAL YET?*
Diocletian: No.
Christians: *HOW ABOUT I DO ANYWAY?*
Diocletian: So you have chosen death.
Christians: Strike us down and we will become more powerful than you could ever imagine.
Constantine: So uh.... Jesus is legal now
Years later, Roman 100% christian
"Diocletian saw himself as a restorer. A man who would turn back the clock to a glorified Roman past that existed largely in his imagination, rather than fact."
This seems... awful familiar.....
"Make Rome great again!" - the chad Benito (It didn't work)
Constantine the Great should get his own videos
Christians Then: "They are cutting off our tongues."
Christians Now: "Starbucks didn't say Merry Christmas."
This late Roman/early Christian history is incredibly interesting to me. It isn't as widely taught in history classes and pop culture doesn't mention it that much so it seems like an almost mythical kind of story, sometimes blurring between what is fabricated and what is fact.
If I ever had a time mashine, I would really love to explore how Christianity started and how it grew in semi-secret
Constantine needs his own Series.
Please make an episode on Constantine
0:11 I love how the gods look surprised too
0:49 and he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling christians
😅 Christianity will never die
the hilarious irony of trying to stop something that was unstoppable
Is no one going to talk about how Diocletian chose cabbages over Rome?
Secretly hes irish
The praetorian guard may (and probably will) murder you. Cabbages won't.
Diocletian was wise enough to know that.
@@Duke_of_Lorraine well you never know. He could've choked on a cabbage and gone out that way. The threat of a cabbage is miniscule but, never zero
Duke of Lorraine
Based
Haven’t found Dad yet Dovahhatty reference?
"Yet despite things not getting better, they weren't getting worse"..... Sometimes thats all you can hope for
Diocltian started with..."We're gonna have the Greatest Rome since Rome was Great."
Christians then: I’m a pacifist I don’t wanna fight in the Army
Christians 1,000 years later: WHOEVER FIGHTS GETS ALL THEIR SINS FORGIVEN AND A FREE TICKET TO HEAVEN!
it's not even 1,000 years it's only 10 (between diocletian's retirement and battle of milvian bridge)
If Christians wanted they could have carried out an armed revolt, but the Christians at that time did not, and stayed true to their faith, unlike the latter ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, wiping out native culture, all in the name of Jesus. The first 300 formative years of our faith was mostly true to the teachings of Jesus. But after that, everything went downhill. Jesus did not fail us, we failed him.
Constantine the great series?
I’d watch it
I have an idea, how about doing an extra history series on the extra credits channel, how it started, major milestones, how you research, and all the members of your team, past and present.
Have you seen footofaferret's A Brief History series? He does almost exactly what you described with various youtubers and musicians. He never did an episode on EC, though.
@@hoodiesticks Interesting
Diocletian retreating to a garden after enacting his form of justice is some thanos type shit
Thank you for this. My cat is on a 24 hour hospital watch. I desperately needed this distraction. At this moment I totally get why Diocletian wanted nothing further to do with the empire.
I honestly hope your cat is better now! Be brave and strong for him/her!
@@ArdanArianis Thank you for that. Sadly he passed away after a few days at home. I’m beside myself with grief. But I also love him now more than ever. I have Mimi the gentle orange shorthair to thank for learning to love cats.
@@johnyricco1220 I'm so sorry for tour los. When that happened to my beautiful Bastet I was so devastated. Stay strong!
@@ArdanArianis I’ve never known hurt like this. Bless you and the memory of Bastet. She must have been very special and that’s a very cool name.
@@johnyricco1220 I've lost a few cats myself along the trata, and it's painful. But you'll survive and remember him fondly. I wish you the best!
I may or may not want a Pie-ocletian Apron now
Diocletian after retirment: Its cabbage time
Exciting problems having boring solutions is a very good theme for this episode
To anyone who sees this comment your a very intelligent person your beautiful, stay safe and have a wonderful day 💗
Oh, thanks.
No u
@aids god, you're really a creep, stop that 🤨
I love your work keep it up! I also really like your mythology videos I will definitely watch more of them
I have visited Diocletian's palaca in Split Croatia :))
Christians: Have a hug, brother!
Galerius: REEEEEEEEEEEEE
So Thanos going back to his garden after he "made balance" is similar to how Diocletian went to his garden after he was satisfied with making "balance". See comic book movies reference history. :p
Diocletians military reforms turned out great, you guys missed every single detail.
I still miss Aurelian! 😢
Diocletian looks proud of his cabbages
Fence 03 They took first place at the local Farmer's Market competition!
(6:28) How very Thanos of him.
Diocletian was in politics and war fro 21 years and then retired to a life of peace and contentment, once asked to return to power when things fell apart again he declined. He had plenty of experience in the bitter and angry machinations of Rome, he undoubtedly was unhappy and uncontent whilst doing so. So when given the opportunity to leave his peace and happiness he declined, he wanted to live out the last years of his life happy. A wise man indeed.
One gripe: calling Romans of that era "pagans" just sounds wrong. They were the biggest political power in Europe, so their beliefs were the "default" at the time. If anything, from their perspective, it was Christianity that was considered a foreign, outsider belief - and so, pagan in comparison.
But “Pagan” back then didn’t merely refer to any religious movement outside the mainstream. Roman Polytheists for instance didn’t refer to Jews or Christians as Pagans. It was a term, injected into the religious vocabulary, by Christians specifically to refer to any non-abrahamic faiths. So pagan is quite the apt term foe the Romans here. That’s literally what they were.
So basically, Bender's "The emperor demands booze" edict, but with christians building a successful religion out of not giving the emperor booze?
And tons of philosophical arguments and beating the platonists at their own game.
Happy Times all Around is the third century "Live, Laugh, Love"
Diocletian and Maximian didn't abdicate to their biological sons, they just picked heirs and legally adopted them like all caesars prior.
Yes, that's what they said.
Fun fact: Diocletian's palace is the basis around which modern Croatia's 2nd largest city, Split, was built. You can still visit the palace in Split.
Also it became a setting for Game of Thrones
I was raised with the Christian saying “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.” Every story has been about how thousands of Christians fearlessly killed has been the reason Christianity has lasted so long: because no one would die for something that they knew wasn’t true. I know lots of people in more conservative circles who say if they were to be diagnosed with a terminal illness, they would spend their last days in the most hostile environment they could find, sharing Christianity, in hopes of dying a martyr’s death. It’s interesting for me to examine those ideas in light of the information in this video. I had never heard this before.
Because what your family said was true and the persecution would get worse with julian the apostate. This video only scratches the surface of the blood they shed.
Great series indeed. Thanks Extra Credits.
It seems telling of the future of Christianity that the great persecution didn't begin when they were minding their own business or when a Christian made an unrelated political blunder, but when a Christian couldn't tolerate the religious practices of the dominant religion. Obviously it was 100% and overreaction and not their fault, but it foreshadows their own religious intolerance once they get into power.
Perhaps it has something to do with Christians' views on the afterlife. They might've been a lot more tolerant if they didn't think persecution was for their heathens' own good.
You seem to have missed the fact that while it wasn't state policy to go after this minority group with everything that was had, Christians had been persecuted on and off depending on the region and who was in charge since Christianity began. Hence being legaly an ilegal religion and therefore anyone could persecute them if they felt like it, hence first gathering places being hidden places.
Besides which, early Christianity can hardly be compared to MUCH later times. These early martyrs died not because they were going to attack someone, but because they were saying what they thought was the TRUTH, while fully expecting to die for that truth.
And persecution of others didn't really begin till vast majority of people were Christian. Hell Constantine only made Christianity legal, about a half a century it became state religion while still permitting other ones, it won't be till Justinian when pretty much everyone was Christian and in fact Christians were having "energetic discussions" between each other that actual bans on pagans will start. And even much later most of the persecution tended to be between us over our own disagreements.
Ending of one of my favorite extra history series
Controversial view, but when you go around insulting peoples beliefs and disrupting and interfering with their sacred rites you have no ground to be angry when they retaliate. Esp when you then double down on your treatment of their religion when you end up on top.
Counter point feeding living people to lions is not a reasonable response to someone being an asshole
@@johnohara4788 as someone who has had to deal with more than enough christianity related bs in my life, professionally and personally imma have to disagree with you on that. At least with regard to that brand of assholes.
#Gibbon wasn't 100% wrong about christianity's effect on Rome.
1:23
Jewish Priest: We good? *Thumb up*
Roman Soldier: We good. *Thumbs Up*
As long as you pay taxes??
Oy vey *Rebells*
I understand the Romans. Tolerance is a two way contract that does not work with intolerants. And there is a breaking point when the arm becomes a mile.
You should make a series about Constantine the Great at some point!
8:58- Well, actually baptism upon death wasn't uncommon, even among Christians.
Constantine the II did the same.
Just my main peeve with Davinci Code, which wouldn't be a problem as a fiction if the author didn't show himself to be ignorant of Roman and Church History.
The thing with Constantine is that most historians aren't really sure if he actually bought into Christianity up until his death bed. He clearly saw the power and the rising tide of Christianity as something he could use in order to consolidate the empire. He took all of the anti-Christian reforms and did a complete 360 making anti-pagan reforms. Now a formerly ostracized group of people held incredible power and had only one man to thank for their good fortune. Also while he's heralded for the legalization of Christianity and the founding of Constantinople, Constantine as a ruler didn't really play by a Christian rule book so to speak, mas murder was essentially how he spent his Friday nights. He completed many of Diocletian's reforms, but not fully, with him simply kicking many of the major problems of the empire down the line. All in all Great for Christianity, bad for most everything else.
Never let facts stand in the way of a good story. Its too bad the story in DaVinci Code wasn't good.
Yeah, just cringey as they kinda mixed up Theodosius (more ardent anti Pagan) with Constantine (at least hands off with Pagan, even up to Valentinian I and Valens).
I mean Julian is Constantinian dynasty but Paganism is powerful enough to challenge Christians at the time.
Love you EH!
Chads who have already watched this from dovahatty rise up
Constantine series!!!!!
I wonder what the modern world would have become if the Roman Empire used the methods the Tokugawa gov't of Japan to stamp out Christianity? The former created martyrs whereas the latter broke believers.
I'd imagine it would be a pretty crappy place to live in. A cut throat world where people step on each other for their own selfish benefit as the norm; without the slightest of qualm.
Both governments used the same methods. Romans forcing public libations to the Emperor was exactly like the Japanese ritual of public desecration of Christian imagery.
The difference came from the size and homogeny of these nations. The Romans has a massive empire of varying cultures. Even during State sponsored persecution you'd have Roman govenors who performed their task half-hearted or you'd have Emperors who would be more lenient to Christians.
Japan on the other hand was a small realm with a homogenus culture. The Tokugawa Shoguns could easily influence nobles to hardline Christian persecution and practically every Tokugawa Shogun had the same persecution mindset.
The same methods were used in both cases, there was little different.
The latter didn't. They just hid their religion like they did in Rome, even making slight changes to existing gods so no one could tell Bishamonten was actually Mary.
@@Lightscribe225 There were still a lot of Japanese natives who died as Christian martyrs. The Shogunate would spare your life if you desecrated Christian icons publicly so the ones who died would have been exclusively pious Japanese Christians who preferred to die for their faith.
Romanus: "Your gods are false heretics!!!"
Diocletian: "No u."
"Diocletian
saw himself as a restorer: a man who would turn back the clock to a glorified Roman past that existed largely in his imagination rather than fact."
It always does.