The Ford Tractor that made John Deere STRONGER! The Ford 6000 story.
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- The story of the Ford 6000 tractor, and the tale of Harold Brock who helped develop it, is an interesting tale!
Learn more about Harold here:
www.hawkeyecollege.edu/founda... - Авто та транспорт
Drove one once in the parking lot of a Case dealership I worked at during college. Love the history!
I started farming in 1980 with a Ford 6000. I used it for six years. I never really had many problems with it. You needed to have a brain when running it. When you shifted certain gears it was shifting two clutch packs. It would jerk or jump if shifted under heavy loads. If you just clutched it/use the inching pedal, it would shift fine and would hold up. Pretty fuel efficient and pretty nimble tractor.
The biggest trouble was it was sophisticated/complicated tractor coming into a market where the average consumer was used to a very simple indestructible tractor. An example was on the Ford 6000 you had several different fluids to maintain. The hydraulics ,the transmission, the rear end and the engine all used different oils/fluids.
When you got it in 1980 the prior owners must have also been kind to it!?
The prior owner was a Ford trained mechanic on those tractors when they were new. He had 8 or 10 of them he used to farm over 600 acres.
My Brother-in-law bought it off me and still uses it in his livestock/hay operation. I adjust the transmission bands every few years for him and replace a hose now and then. He loves it. @@TheDieselDiary
1980 was a tough time to get going in farming.
Your darn right . We made it by hard work and leveraging livestock on rented farm steads. In the winter of 1981 I had a 100 sows on four farms and feeder calves on two more. My main transportation was a 1952 Chev. pickup. My two tractors where a JD "G" and that Ford 6000. Neither where very used friendly. @@oldtruthteller2512
The biggest issue was wrist pins, especially in the Diesel. With little to no support in aftermarket, they are a fragile Orphan. The transmission was fairly robust with regular service which most ignored because it wasn't easy to do. Deere at least added another filter and supply pump to the hydraulic system. Of note is the fact that the Selectospeed transmission found on the 601 thru 901 had coasting gears that would not hold back going down hill in 5th, 6th, and 9th. The 6000 did not suffer from this issue. Also of note was the huge recall on 560 Farmalls at the time. Ford swapped your red tractor for a Blue one with the tires off your red one. The red ones were then repaired/ modified, painted blue and sold as used in 1963. Lots if these "used" 6000s appeared on dealer lots at a very reasonable price to get them off the books. Ford lost on them at the same time as the Edsel. Not a paramount time at the Blue Oval Boys.
We never had the 601 or 901 in Australia, and sadly I have no understanding of their transmissions, but we did get many of the other pommy versions after the fact!
I had one back in 1977. When it ran I was great but it was broken down most of the time. I wanted a 4020 but only afford the 6000. When I sold it 5 years later the money I put in it I could had that 4020.
4020 was a true work-horse
@@TheDieselDiary
As was it's little brother the 3020D.
We literally call it.....
The Old Work Horse. 🤠
Grew up running Dad's 4020 powershift. The only problem we ever had with the 4020 was if it did a lot of night work it would run down one of the batteries and it wouldn't start the next morning. All the 12 volt lights drew power off of one battery of the 24 volt system. I installed more lights which drew power from the opposite battery which solved that problem. Never had any problems with the powershift transmission, it operated flawlessly.
When I was a teenager I went to work for another farmer who owned 2 Ford 6000s. Those Selectospeed transmissions definitely didn't work like a Powershift. Put it in gear and it would sit there and go with a big jerk whenever the transmission decided to go. 😮 Made hooking up to equipment a difficult task. 😢 Kind of dangerous if someone was trying to help hook up.
This farmer had 2 brothers. Each one of them had bought a new tractor about the same time. One brother bought an Oliver. One brother bought a John Deere. The brother I worked for bought his new Ford 6000. When the brother I worked for died he had 3 Ford 6000s on his estate auction. The original 6000 hadn't run in years. The other 2 brothers' original tractors were still running fine so I figured it takes at least 3 Ford 6000s to equal one John Deere or one Oliver. 😂
I do own 1 Ford tractor, a 1940 9N Ford. Those early Ford tractors are bulletproof. 👍
I love the 9N, wish we got them there. Thank you for the story! I wonder if people always had a second 6000 as a backup!
Something was wired wrong because only half the lights are pulled off one battery. The other battery carries the other lights. The left battery auxiliaries are positive ground. The right battery auxiliaries are negative ground so if you ran a corn planter monitor or sprayer control, it would have to be hooked up to the right side.
The 6000: the Edsel of the AG world. Ford has ways thought they had a better idea, however they have no clue as to making it work. I personally owned a 6000 and about the only thing that wasn't a constant problem would have been the lights. Anything and everything else was a consistent repair nightmare. I worked at a Ford tractor dealer while in High school and had access to all the repair bulletins for the tractor. even when things were fixed with proper tools, techniques and parts it would not stay fixed. The hydraulic system with the small displacement pump, unload valve and accumulator was one of the biggest problems next to the SOS transmission. Even way back then service parts were getting scarce. If you ever consider getting one of these POS, RUN, RUN as far and as fast as you can. A show tractor that that you will paint real pretty and never use, maybe. I grew up with a good friend that farmed with nothing but Fords, They had 2 of them, 1 was always broke down. The 8000 was far superior
my family ran a dairy in Central Oklahoma many years ago and we had Ford tractors and I always thought it was weird that we had 4000, 5000, 7000, 8600, and 9700. I always thought where did the 6000 go. I have seen many videos and articles about the transmission troubles but this is the best explanation yet. Great video and keep up the good work.
Thank you for the feedback. All those tractors you mention now have a cult following to certain people! I appreciate the feedback. I hope to make some more videos soon!
Very interesting. 👍🏼
Glad you think so! Thank you!
I was only about 15 years old when My neighbor bought one Blue and white I had the opportunity to operate it with the Select-o- Speed. He eventually traded it on A 830 Case with a Case-.o-matic transmission ( Torque converter drive with lock up in front of 8 speed gear trans......
I recognised both of the 6000's pictured as being the Australian version from their unique rear wheel equipment, that being the heavy cast centres with either 23.1 x 26 or 18.4 x 34 tyres, and with the front axle in the short wheelbase position.
I didn't run a Blue powershift until I got to run a NH (Ford) TM 150. It was as clunky as the old JD 8 speed, but with more chances to jerk you around. Low hour machine, but not fun to run. I'm quite familiar with the JD 19 speed, and it will either put you in the window, or crack your neck in certain gears. IVT is now the way to go, slick as goose grease.
I wish Ford were a little more patient developing this tractor. They might be still be building great tractors today.
My neighbor had one. Even had the cab on it, diesel with an after market Turbo on it. I liked it but the added power from the turbo made short work of the trans. He took it apart and let it sit a few years. Talked me into putting it back together, they had found a used trans from a tractor that was in a barn fire. I wanted to get into the trans to check it out but was told no. Got it going again and after a few seasons it again broke down. I really didn't want to bother with it again and as the wife was expecting any day, wanted to be close to home. He dropped it and the pile of spare parts from before, at my yard. The thing always ran flawlessly, checked it out and nothing was working behind the motor. Closer inspection revealed that the Torque limiter clutch disk has failed. It pulled the rivets out of the hub of the disk. Wasn't too bad to put in one from the parts trans. Had it going the next day, used it a bit to test it. It's agility and power impressed me. I didn't like the hydraulic 3 pt as it had an accumulator system that would make the hitch incredibly fast, and a bit scary as it even worked a few cycles after shut down. Thing was easy on fuel and had the comparable power of an IH 706. In fact it was replaced by a 706 LPG. It's other wekness was all the external lube lines to the rear differential. The dairy farmer that got it later broke one of those lines and ran the dif case dry and destroyed that end.
Fantastic anecdote! Thank you for sharing. How did you find working on the big beasts. Everything is so heavy being cast. To this day I have never seen one with a cab in person.
Back then I was one heck of lot stronger and didn't know fear! I did a lot of much bigger jobs by myself for years. Now, I find it wearisome just to get out and do anything in the yard.@@TheDieselDiary
I’ve been using and repairing all kinds of tractors ! And my personal favorite is a standard shift 8 speed manual with a manual forward/reverse shuttle shift for loader operators ! No bells and whistles works great for me 😅
I had a chance to own one of these really cheap, I didnt buy it because Id herd they had too many issues and this one had the 3pt lift issues that needed to be repaired so I passed on it. Im glad I did. It ran really strong and the diesel engine sounded awesome!!!
They do sound very good! The sad thing is that they could have been amazing!
Two were sold around where I grew up, both were nothing but problems for the farmer's that bought them. Both were replaced by Ford.
I feel for the farmers that put their faith into them.
What everyone needs to remember is every make of machine has their lemon models including John turd
My father bought one new, here in Australia (state of Qld), had all the problems mentioned in the comments below
Waterloo boy, international harvester, caterpillar, and Ford all paved the way for John Deere, IH with the row crop tractor, Waterloo boy with the 2 cylinder design and colors, caterpillar using pony motors to start diesels, and Ford with the power shift.
Ford the best tractor in the world
The ford serie 10 the best tractor for the farm
the 6000 Ford style is unique they were the new Generation you could of Ford tractor design
They had the select-o-speed made before the 6,000. And the select-o-speed was not a power shift and driving it like one caused the vast majority of problems it had
I worked at a Ford Tractor dealer in the late 70’s and we had a few 6000s come into the shop. Besides transmission issues, weak crank shafts were always mentioned. I can’t remember if it was not large enough in diameter or not enough main bearings. What do you think?
I remember Select-O-Speeds being torn down and you could cover the shop floor with all the parts that came out of one. What features (if any) did John Deere take from the Selecto-O-Speed and utilize in the Power Shift? Thanks for the video!
Interestingly, we never had gas versions here, only diesel, and consensus was that the bearings couldn't handle the diesel motor! It was also odd that they are so hard to get bearings for, considering so many failed. You would think Ford would have thousands on the shelves.
@@TheDieselDiary Why would a manufacturer produce parts for a tractor it expects to go extinct? The Ford 6000 had so many subsystems with design problems and ultimate failures, Ford probably figured the tractors were destine to being junked rather than repaired. So why stock parts?
@RyanClancy they use the exact same rod and main bearings as the 215, 223, 262 gas engines.
As long as you know what the aftermarket part numbers are you're good to go.
There were a ton of bearing sets on Ebay when I overhauled my 6000 diesel a couple of months ago.
My stepdad had a Ford 2000 19 72
My dad and a close friend both bought new 6000s when they came out. My dad traded his off before the replacement tractors were offered. His friend got the replacement. My dad had a deserved distaste for Ford tractors the rest of his life. To say the original 6000 was junk would be to compliment it. I can’t speak for how the replacements held up, hopefully better.
A lot of that same dis-taste sill exists today!
Had the power , but not enough goodies in the trans . IH with the first of six cylinders trans busting , jd with 1010 and 2010 tractors issues. Seems every one made a lemon at some time. But what do you do with a lemon 🍋? You make it better with lemonade! Lol
Absolutely, the sad thing is that if you don't get back and replace it with smash hit, you can be left behind! I will be doing the DV550 IH V8 engine story one day soon.
@@TheDieselDiaryDV 550 & DV 800 were job security at an IH and CASE IH dealer they both had HP but that was only for about 3 minutes then self destruction
I agree! Ask me how I know! :(@@freebooter247
@@TheDieselDiary the only application the IH V8 were good was in the construction equipment scrapers etc they only had to work at full HP for a couple of minutes then basically idle along
Some people liked them in the ACCO trucks, and still ended up doing a conversion! @@freebooter247
I'm a Ford man but you couldn't pay me to take one. The Fordson Super Major was a by far the better tractor .
Thats what most people think! The Super Major was a much more successful tractor!
My dad bought 2 800 Select O Speed's in 1961. Easy enough for me to drive at 6 years old. One was still on the farm when sold 7 years ago but way beyond rebuilding.
We never had the 800 here!
Nah nah nah this is the tractor that cemented Ford as a force to be reconked with when it came to farm equipment
Good day from Ontario Canada Boy interestin g. Our neighbour was Ford man 1st small 4000 with red tiger motor & sos
2nd 5000, sos
3 5000 sos
4 I think 6000 sos either trans. went or crankshaft
5 6000 sos either trns. or sos. I don't know which way & he is not living anymore
7 7010 no problems.
Our other neighbour blew snow for us neighbours had 4020 power shift, but they traded every so many yrs.
The motor on 6000 was a truck motor 242 ?? not built heavy enough.
So were are u from ? Thanks interesting video
Hello sir! From Australia. My two 6000's both had bottom end crank issues, due to being diesel variants! They had a habit of picking up bearings!
Ford should have been involved with tractors. same goes for aircraft, and radios, and appliance's under the Philco name. hell they have been involved with building car and trucks.
The select-jerk-was quite a transmission!
Few ford tractors we’re ever sold in Ontario
Few good dealers in many regional areas out here too!
le plus citron des FORD tracteur o monde
Im a little confused to be honest, the new generation of power started in 60 with the 4010 which is a year ahead of the 6000, so are we saying because it had a power shift thats why deere made the power shift an option on 4020 and such? Even though deere was working on power shifts the whole way from the beginning of new generation of power? Also its quite known by now deeres power shift is completely different from the Ford.
Correct, Harrold Brock left Ford prior to the official release of the 6000, and moved to John Deere to help complete their powershift transmission. Hence his quote regarding the ford version "it wont work", as he had seen the final development spec of the Select-o-speed transmission that was going to released to the market. At that stage, all the big players were working on new versions of powershift transmissions. Ford were a head of the market, but had not fine-tunned it. John Deere did.
@@TheDieselDiary Harold Brock basically told Ford that the selectospeed needed further work before release to market, but their impatience got the better of them, and they released it as was.
Can't remember if Ford fired H. Brock, or if he left due to being unhappy with their attitude, but regardless, Fords loss was John Deeres gain and the resulting transmission on the Deere left Ford in the dust.
A real shame about the issues with the Ford 6000 though, as it is a fantastic looking machine, stylistically speaking.
I'll take a 4020 diesel power shift any day over anything else from this era. We have a 3020 power shift with over 20,000 hours on it and the transmission has never been touched.
The 4020 has to be one of the best all round tractors, maybe ever?
So you sent me out to disk the field he was in the field with me 3-point hitch I never set the hitch down I went through that feild bubby and then I realize the put it down
John Deere didn't hire just the head engineer from Ford, they hired the entire 10 man design team. Ford can really be viewed as the Beta test for this transmission idea and gave up on it letting John Deere learn fully from Ford's design mistakes and use the same engineers to design the fixes. The idea behind the Selecta-Shift transmission was sound, but was under designed for the power levels it was expected to handle. Deere designed out this problem.
What is lost in this story is that Ford was not a player in the higher horse power end of the tractor market and the 6000 was intended to give a leap beyond the offerings from the industry leaders of IH and John Deere. Both of those companies had their weaknesses at the time - John Deere with its dated engine design and IH with its transmission issues in its flag ship 560 model. If Ford's newest high horsepower tractor worked it could have stepped ahead of either or both of IH or JD. But it didn't and Deere brought out its new line of tractors that stole the entire market away from IH, Ford and any other tractor line at the time. It wasn't until Ford brought the 8000 to market that it became a player in the main stream tractor market for big high horsepower tractors.
Very valid point! I was thinking of doing a separate video on the Horsepower wars of the early seventies in a few videos time!
Today 6000's are museum pieces and if one actually runs county fair and fireman's parade. Other than that they're smelter bait.
HAHAH I never heard that saying "smelter bait". love it!
The 4020 remains the clasic powerhouse of this era. I enjoy my 806, but feel outclassed by the JD.
I enjoy the comments to this video. Some of them are based on more knowledge end personal experience than I have.
The 6000 has to be one of the ugliest tractors ever designed. Red and blue variants are equally appalling.
I actually love the futuristic design, but it will Never stand up to the timeless 4020! I sold one, will have to buy another 4020!
Not even close,if this was true the 6000 ford would be sought after like a 4010 or 4020
Good 6000s are starting to be highly sought after in Ford Collecting circles!
@@TheDieselDiary rare but not a 4020 or 4000
@@classic89deerefever80 and that’s the point of the video! ;)
@@TheDieselDiary keep on dreamimg
Worst tractor Ford ever made!
Maybe, but it sounds like they manned up and satisfied the customers. Those days are gone.
"Paved the way for John Deere." Ha! You have to be kidding! What a joke.
What’s your interpretation of the story?
@@TheDieselDiary Ford produced it's typical piece of junk.
I've operated several Ford tractors in the past. Also, Allis Chalmers, Deutz, Case, and others. I've only owned John Deere, because none of the others were even close.
If you think that Deere could not have designed a power shift transmission on their own that is rather ludicrous. The technological advancement of The New Generation tractors on all fronts was astounding. As a consulting design engineer who has worked on projects for Deere, I've seen their capabilities up close. I'm sure it was helpful to have the engineer you mentioned join their team for this effort, if only to point out the flaws in the Ford design.
I ran a Ford 9000 in the early 80s. It was a loaner from a dealer while our 4020 was being worked on. Aside from the Ford 8N and Allis Chalmers 7020, that was one of the worst tractors I have ever operated.
It had a standard transmission with a power shift two-speed range selector. There were two push buttons on the floor of the operator station that toggled up and down. Dumbest thing I've ever seen (well, not as dumb as the non-ergonomic brake pedals on the 8N). I would rather operate some of our old two-cylinder Deere tractors than that thing.
Nothing about Ford tractors paved the way for anything John Deere. You can have your Ford 6000.
@@ronaldschoolcraft8654 I don’t think you realize you agree with my point! The ford 6000 failed and John Deere got better because it took Fords head engineer!