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I'm no electrician, just a DIY homeowner/landlord, but the grounding solution shown here still "goes against code" since a grounding screw is not to be used for any other purpose (such as one used to secure/clamp the romex). To double-check, I looked it up in the code; that restriction is covered in 250.148 (C)...I'm guessing that a dual purpose creates a greater risk that the grounding screw will later become unbonded to the box. The alternatives seem simple enough; permitted grounding/bonding equipment is found in 250.8 (A)...if the old box doesn't have a spare threaded hole for a dedicated machine screw, one of those green grounding clips would do, assuming that's what's being referred to as a "pressure connector" in 250.8 (A)(3).
If I saw good twisted and soldered splices, I would save the wire length and shorten the splice to the length for a wire nut and twist on a wire nut. Your approach also works fine.
The only reason to cut off a twisted and soldered splice to use a wago instead of a wire nut is if you're getting time and materials and you're more interested in putting money in your pocket than doing a good job.
There was nothing wrong with that connection other than the possibility of the tape coming off. A wire nut like you suggested would have worked just fine and been better. Now that all the wires are chopped so short, the next guy has next to nothing to work with.
FYI: You should test BOTH Hot and Neutral wires. I've seen some DIY in my home and on UA-cam (OMG) where they use whatever color they want for hot/neutral/ground. Yikes!!!
THIS. Another reason to check neutral (AND ground) conductors is that some people just don't pay attention to what side of a light switch they attach the neutral wire or the hot wire to, and that seemingly dead circuit could still be live. People think that an outlet or light fixture is wired correctly as long as the switch turns it on and off afterward.
The problem is finding someone who carries Wago connectors **without** having to go to Amazon. Home Crappo is supposed to carry them, but I never see them there, or even any sign that they carry them at all.
1) using the clap screw as a ground would be a code violation. Its probably fine, but it would be preferable to drill and tap and use a green screw in the electrical box. 2) you didn't test the neutral wire for hot, something could be miswired somewhere or it could be a traveler wire in some cases. Always test each wire to see if hot. Additionally the touchless testers are ok, but I prefer to also test with a DVM before I start working on the wires.
If the box is new enough, it will already have the 10-32 tapped hole for a ground screw. But if not, I also prefer to drill and tap for a proper 10-32 grounding screw.
Love love LOVE setting the Wago up BEFORE trying to hold the fixture in one hand, manipulate the stiff wires with the other hand, and ... errrrr ... screw on the caps with the third hand?! Yeah, funny thing, I was not ISSUED a third hand, so this is a SUPER suggestion! Very helpful! Off to the store to pick up some Wago! Thanks!
I agree with Ed. 44 years as a residential electrical contractor. You never use a steel romex clamp to ground a box, ESPECIALLY if there is a romex under that clamp. I also use the 3M wirenuts with the skirt. You have more copper twisted together. Much better connection. Cutting the good copper even shorter is a bad habit too.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs Used Wago's on a tip from you, on a ceiling fan box that looked very very similar to what the light fixture in this ceiling looked like, solder and all. Thanks for the tip!
Always check BOTH black and white... you never know which was the switch leg, until you prove it out. Also, you shortened already short looking wires... you could have trimmed them back slightly, and wire-nutted it, or, not trimmed it, and used heat shrink insulation and a wire nut. Better choice to an already good electrical connection.
Not that being positive isn't a good idea, but because that's a junction in addition to power for the light it's far less likely that the white will be the hot side.
I'm anal and would never shorten wires if not necessary. I"ve come across situations where wires have been shorten and is a pain in the butt to work with.
@@suedenim9208 Easy to check and costs nothing. I can see it is merely a junction, but since you have the non-contact too right there, just check... I have been popped by a neutral more than once.
@@Supertrack238 Agreed. I was just pointing out that it's not merely a switch leg, where a hot white isn't at all uncommon. FWIW, I've found junction boxes that had two energized BX cables from two different circuits. IIRC they were tied together in the box. It was literally less than 10' from the *fuse* box in a basement so I just followed the cable back to see which circuit to kill. I'm glad I checked with a voltage tester anyway.
By Code these wire must protrude from a fixture or outlet a minimum of 3 inches... in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening. Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14.
250.148(C) A connection used for no other purpose shall be made between the metal box and the equipment grounding conductor(s) in accordance with 250.8. The language has made for some debate, but I read that as the ground connection should not be doubled as a NM clamp screw. You can use a tap bit (Ideal has a nice bit set) to create a threaded hole in the top of the box, and attach with a standard ground screw.
@@matthewq4b I guess the question for me is, Did he improve the situation? I am sure that there is some reason that you should not use a screw that is used for something else, but is it better than leaving the box ungrounded? Maybe you can explain to us armatures why this is bad?
@@martyb3783 In this situation no it is not better. Think about it he grounded to the screw that is used to clamp down the conductors... just let that sink in. He would have been better off using a screw that mounted the box. And even then that is not great. If there is a dead short or higher resistance short to ground there is the very real possibly of heating up the that screw and then the clamp which may lead to melting or possible combustion of the conductors insulation or creating a dead short. This is why grounds have to have dedicated connections to ground and NOT be multi use. Since this is an octagon box for a celling mount light fixture he would have been better off leaving it ungrounded than doing what he did. Since he mounting a light fixture I would hope that the fixture is going to be mounted to the box using it's mounting screws this would in effect bond the box to the fixture ground which is attached to the system ground. Again this is why amateurs should NOT be doing electrical how to videos. The CEC/NEC rules are rules for a reason.
@@martyb3783 One problem is the torque for clamping NM is typically less than a conductor under a screw. So either the NM is being dug into too far potentially damaging the insulation, or the electrical connection is loose making for possibly higher ground resistance. When they are each their own screw, there's no chance for conflict.
I use those Wago nuts all the time now but I do go one step further and wrap electrical tape on those levers because they can pop open easily when placing the wires back into the metal boxes. Yes, I learned the hard way.
As other's have pointed out, using the wire clamp screw is a no-no code-wise. Either drill and tap or go with a slide-on box-edge grounding clip. I have a collection of such clips along with green grounding screws of various lengths/diameters for retrofitting existing installations.
I was an electrician for 39 yrs. and it's been my experience that most pressure type electrical connections fail in time. The twist type wire nut if installed properly fail far less. I always preferred 3M brand wire nuts. Never been fond of pressure type ground connectios either. Grounds are extremely important and should always be treated as such ,your life or someone else's can depend on it. I was always taught that the code is bare minimum. If you can improve on it so much the better.
@@Verminator151029 actually, you're wrong. Wagos always fail earlier than wire nuts. A diy-er such as yourself may not know that, but the professionals do. You should probably leave electrical work to them honestly.
@@wanders278 What source do you have for this? There is plenty of evidence, through testing, that you can find here on UA-cam and other sites showing the opposite. Wagos are very strong and reliable.
yeah the wago's are fine. Can't tell you how many times I've found wirenuts off sitting in the box. When I use wirenuts I always tape them so they can't come off later, but Wago's are a vast improvement in long term reliability. Old school ways are fine, but you kind of need to move into the 21 century and take advantage of improvements.
They're spring loaded so actually are designed to expand and contract with the wire... Unlike compression screw contractor blocks which work loose (IE plug socket backs)
I suspect at the time the old fixture it was in compliance with the code of its time. I remember: good mechanical joint, solder, rubber tape, friction tape was the standard most everewhere.
I mean from what I understood the solder joint would still be code complient today. He just didn't want to deal with it needing maintance or didn't want to risk the tape breaking down after some time.
Another thing to think about is max box fill. I didn’t look this one up but boxes have a max fill based on the conductor fill, yoke, cable clamps and support fittings. Like I said i didn’t look this one up but it is a code item
Never use your linemans to grab wire and put into a wago or anything. Use your fingers. You could nick the insulation. And yes, drill and tap 10/32 for the ground screw, use a ground clip or use the hole in the box made for it. Gotta love resi guy’s techniques.
Replacing 1" twisted pair of (mechanically sound) solid, and SOLDERED copper wire with a "Wago 221" connector, instead of replacing the tape with a red wire nut, is by far the most regressive effort in electrical wiring you could make. Wago connectors were designed for ease of use and time saving, not for improving the soundness of the termination.
I've seen connections like this many times where they twist wires together and solder them which is best because they will not come loose but they should have been covered with a wire nut , Most times I've seen is instead of using electrical tape They would wrap them with friction tape But if you decide to twist and solder the wires together , Don't wrap them with tape to insulate them , Use wire nuts Back in the days when I would install a car stereo or alarm system , I always soldered all the connections because in vehicles The connections are subject to vibration when driving down the road and for the many times I've soldered connections Not one connection ever got loose When soldering wires , Be absolutely sure to use rosin core solder only Also I agree with you on those Wago connectors , They do save time but I don't know if they're really safe to use Especially when pigtailing outlets where heating appliances are plugged into them If using Wago connectors I recommend wrapping them with electrical tape to keep the lock levers locked in place
@@sanjonny2 You've got that right With the wires already twisted and soldered Should have just trimmed off the excess exposed wire and put on wire nuts because soldered connections , When done properly will never come loose
That was done correctly..... Although not how we do it today.... Another pro tip..... Take that little volt stick and throw it as far away from u as u can.... You need a meter....use a stick to quickly check voltage if you have to and then check with your meter.... And never get in between those neutral wires like you were doing..... That is a lesson you won't forget.... Unbalanced loads on your neutral, is a thing....
I worked on a house that had knob and tube wiring. All of the connections were soldered and taped, but there were no junction boxes. Also, back then there was no such thing as the plastic tape we have today, but a cloth based "friction tape".
Well everyone is right about the dedicated ground screw, but lets not forget that for older boxes without a threaded hole, there is a green metal clip that slides over the front edge of the box. Sometimes called a ground clip. Since these wires were all soldered, cloth friction tape would be the solution. It was used for years before plastic and becomes a solid mass over time. It will not come off! Also better quality plastic tape is long lasting too, it is the cheap stuff that fails to adhear over time. I too think I would have just connected to the free ends with wire nuts or wago connectors. There is no better connection than solder, not even wago. Solder only went away because it was labor intensive.
Ummmm . . . I've seldom seen ground wires connected with other than crimp sleeves (in professional installations). Does the NEC allow Wago for ground wire connections?
I’m confused on why there are 3 sets of black wires. Even if you’re passing power over to another source wouldn’t it only be 2 sets? Or is it passing power over to 2 other sources?
What! No fourzee! One thing that happened to me with the Wago’s, I pushed the wires into the box and the lever hit another wire and flipped open. Gotta be careful about that.
Might seem excessive, but I usually wrap a little tape around the Wago when I'm done to secure the tabs from accidental movement, because yeah, this happens a lot if you aren't careful stuffing it into the box.
UK sparky here... Yes we do the wrap of tape too... With solid core the push in wagos are great and can't come loose like the lever (same exact mechanism but no lever so you have to push the wires in) not sure if they are to code in the USA tho... Wago product code is 2273-xxx instead of 221-xxx. They do a 4 way in that range too and they're even smaller
I will also add that after about 40 years of hanging lights, It is far easier to attach the pig tails in the box and put them into the fixture when mounting the light. Then make the final connection with the light mounted. Why would you ever want to make a connection with a four foot or even 8 foot light hanging loose.
Why don't they make a 4-wire WAGO? That's the one that I seem to need often and you could have used one twice in your box. Besides, the 5-wire just takes up more room in the box.
Should definitely check neutral wire. I just had a circuit with a three way light switch go out. I checked the breaker and it was on. I then started to check the connection on that circuit and found a hot neutral. Then found a failed three way switch that was approximately 25 years old.
Now, if the other side has a clamp without wires, remove the clamp and use that screw for a ground. It's not green, but my objection to using that screw is that with the romex in the clamp you don't have a firm connection. But, if the other clamp screw is used, you may still be against code for the ground screw not being green, but the ground is solid.
I've been using Wago connectors for several years. I love 'em. However, I've often wondered about the actual surface area of the contact with the conductors. With a wire nut, there's lots of contact, but with Wago, the contact is quite small. I couldn't disassemble a Wago to see what the actual surface area of the contact is. I ask this because, years ago, the NEC stopped allowing back wiring of receptacles with 12AWG. My understanding at the time was that it was a concern over the actual surface area of the contact.
The contact mechanism in the WAGO 221 and 222 series is nothing like that used in the stab in wiring of receptacles. The wire is pressed up against a copper bus bar by a stainless steel spring. It is a fail safe connection as the levers are opening the spring and when you allow the levers to close the spring closes. WAGO's are UL listed and CE Rated and are fully acceptable as a splicing device.
I have a similar situation. I'm trying to replace a fluorescent light with ballast over the sink with an led fixture. The fixture is powered by a switch on the wall. I opened the florescent light fixture to get at the wires and there are two separate sets of wires. One set has two wires (black and white). The other set has three wires (black, white, and bare copper). The two wires were connected to the three wire set. Once I took them apart, the two wire set has no current even with the switch turned on. The three wire set has current even with the switch turned off. I'm confused as to why there are two sets of wires, why one set of wires have current with the switch off, and how to wire the led fixture which only has three wires (black, white, green). I want to still turn the light on using the wall switch.
Solider was legal for years. so it was legal at the time. learned this from a old timer electrician. He started in the elec trade back in the early 1950,s, and this is how he was trained before wire nuts were used. i started in the elec trade in 1978.
You’re supposed to put rubber tape and or friction tape and it will last almost forever. If you find old houses where they use that method the tape is still good after 60, 70 years. If he didn’t have any rubber tape he could’ve just cut a little bit off and then put a wire nut. Those wires twisted like that are far superior to those connectors, because there is way more surface area connecting the wires. There have been UA-cam videos I’ve watched to prove this fact. Those connectors will heat up way more than if you twist wires the way that those were twisted. Basically, it was better before he touched it.
Test the neutral side too. Not all homes are wired properly. (Edit: just saw Da Hai Zhu's post...but it's worthy to post it again, I've seen this error more than once)
Are those lever nuts code compliant? I'm anal and would never shorten wires if not necessary. I"ve come across situations where wires have been shorten and is a pain in the butt to work with.
Another advantage of Wago connectors is when stranded and solid wire are being joined together. Wire nuts are pretty easy with all solid or all stranded wire, but a mix of both can become a problem when using wire nuts. (I am sure pros would say never, but for DIYers- yes.)
What do you think of those ground wires being crimped together to begin with? I keep finding them all over my house. It looks cheap...but it's just ground wires...so I'm always hesitant to bother wasting Wago's on them.
The crimp connectors are code compliant, so I'm fairly sure that better minds than ours think they do the job. A ground connection should only be energized long enough to trip a breaker so you don't have the same issues with surface area and heat that you would with a connection that's energized for long periods of time, but I suspect you get more contact with a crimp sleeve over twisted wires than with a wago. And FWIW, a properly crimped sleeve can usually be cut off with diagonal cutters instead of sacrificing some of the wire.
Those are Buchannan connectors these ones are uninsulated for the ground and there are insulated ones for the neutral and hot.. They are the best connector if done properly short of soldering. These were used before marretts /wire nuts were seen wide spread use. They typically are seen in installation's done prior to 65 or so in the US and pre WWII in Canada. Wire nuts were invented in Canada and were quickly adopted with them being pretty much replacing crimp ons by WWII. Adoption in the US was a little slower.
My problem with the crimped grounds method when I come across them is that typically, they cut the ground leads super short and have them crimped together in the back of the box. So I still end up using a Wago even with the crimp in place to get a pigtail out where I need it.
instead of adding that pigtail to ground the box, could you have just connect the bare copper wire coming from the Romex cable to that box screw and get same results??
Great video. thanks for sharing. Quick question; how long have the Wagos been per code? (Been a while since I worked in the electrical field and a lot has changed.)
Better than wire nuts... Same principle as screw contractor blocks. Although with correct enclosures are maintenance free and can be hidden to never be seen again
I would have left the soldered connections alone. They are more mechanically and electrically sound than almost anything when done properly. Cutting them off made the wires too short. They were short to begin with. Never had electrical tape drop off. If anything, it gets gooey with age and is nasty to get off. You can always wrap friction tape over it like the old timer's did. Needed to drill and tap for a separate ground screw if there isn't one in the box.
if you do this trade long enough, there will be a time you will have to work things hot and knowing the proper tools what is essential. In this scenario, I would have used a pair of Dikes. In this trade work as if everything is energy.
Anyone else thinking in 30 years people will be wondering why we used these plastic clips. Not sold on the idea unless it is for low power LEDs that need frequent changing.
Shortening the conductors length not a good idea and if it were a code compliment installation when the work was originally done it’s now non code compliant the conductors are not to proper length and improper use of grounding method. Ask your friend Joel welsman he’s a master electrician he would advise you.
Watch those neutrals. If' it's a MWBC you can get bit pretty hard if you touch the wrong things at the right time. Other electricians will know what I mean LOL.
I don't understand why you would use WD 40 or any other oil on electrical wires. So what if the insulation is a little sticky. Also you might be cutting and stripping the sticky part away anyway. WD 40 is oil. It breaks down plastic, like insulation for example. It also ignites if it gets hot enough or if there is a spark arc from a loose wire. When I was a kid, my Dad had a bug zapper. The electric grid inside was getting rusty, so I had the brilliant idea to spray it with WD 40 so it wouldn't rust. Being young and stupid, I failed to see my flaw until it zapped a bug, created a spark and caught the thing on fire, and almost caught the roof of the house on fire. Being a dumb, smart kid, I unplugged it and hit it with the garden hose, and saved the house. Lesson learned, the hard way.
That's probably why he wiped it off after he used it. I'll never understand why these videos attract people like you that lack critical thinking abilities.
@@wanders278 Probably for the same reason you lack the critical thinking of the realization of residue. Maybe your just too lazy to do mental aerobics and rather spend the energy on removing all doubt of you being thought of as a fool.
I think Wago is just a better option for DIY homeowners. Results in a more consistent connection especially on application like ceiling light fixtures. Might come as a surprise but I pay full price for the WAGOs I use just like my viewers but I am happy to do it 👍
hello, any chance for us to work together? we willing to sponsor a 4K POE security camera system to you to install or test out. The detail i had emailed you and waiting for your reply.
@Danny FYI, in North America, Wago is pronounced exactly as he says it. 10 seconds to check-- watch any official Wago video at ua-cam.com/users/WAGOCORP You're velcome. ;)
The connection made by those wires being twisted together and Soldered was 500 times far superior to those Connectors you used. The surface area from the wires being twisted like that and soldering, so much better. Throw some rubber tape on those connections and then the black tape and it would’ve been way better. Also, you shorten that up so much now the wires are too short. I know you love those connectors and I know it’s the craze nowadays but I guarantee you that twisting your wires together is far superior to those connectors. There have been tests that have been done on UA-cam to prove that point.
I agree, generally. For me Wago's are good for limited use such as where wires in a box are too short (like after he shortened them here) and when joining solid and stranded, like for light fixtures.
I have to 100% DISAGREE with your video. The twisted, soldered, and taped wire connections are way more solid and secure and safe than those newer connectors. I love Wagos. Yes they are good. I use them all the time. But there is NO good reason to cut out and replace those soldered and taped connections. Saying tape will dry out and fail ? No. I have taken apart tape insulated connections that were older than I am, and they are just fine. And I work on all kinds of industrial machines, even where oil gets in. Never a problem with the tape. I think you are falling into the trap of thinking old is bad, new is good. The intelligent approach is to evaluate each situation for it's merits and detractors. It is a cop out to think old is bad, just because. Someone did an excellent job on that wiring and you cut it out. If you were that concerned with the tape, why didn't you just re-tape it? ? ? By cutting all the wires back, you shortened all of them. Not a good practice either. I would NOT have taken the approach that you did with this job, but hey, your channel, your rules. I just want to give people a different prospective than the one you presented here to stimulate thought. Good day. --Doozer
You're calling these new & improved wire connectors WHAT? Hey you're talking to novice DIY people. If you're going to hawk some fancy new product the least you can do is leave a comment beneath your video showing the correct name for these "warchamycallits".
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I'm no electrician, just a DIY homeowner/landlord, but the grounding solution shown here still "goes against code" since a grounding screw is not to be used for any other purpose (such as one used to secure/clamp the romex). To double-check, I looked it up in the code; that restriction is covered in 250.148 (C)...I'm guessing that a dual purpose creates a greater risk that the grounding screw will later become unbonded to the box. The alternatives seem simple enough; permitted grounding/bonding equipment is found in 250.8 (A)...if the old box doesn't have a spare threaded hole for a dedicated machine screw, one of those green grounding clips would do, assuming that's what's being referred to as a "pressure connector" in 250.8 (A)(3).
That is what I was thinking.
Oooooooh thanks for the info!
Exactly. Lots of bad advice in this video.
yes, I was wondering about that.. it looked suspect.
Never trust anything you see on you tube,,or believe anything FJB says….
If I saw good twisted and soldered splices, I would save the wire length and shorten the splice to the length for a wire nut and twist on a wire nut.
Your approach also works fine.
Exactly he should have just cut the splice back and installed a wire nut. You should NEVER cut back wires in a box unless left no other option.
I agree.
The only reason to cut off a twisted and soldered splice to use a wago instead of a wire nut is if you're getting time and materials and you're more interested in putting money in your pocket than doing a good job.
He even showed us that he had wire nuts with him at one point
There was nothing wrong with that connection other than the possibility of the tape coming off. A wire nut like you suggested would have worked just fine and been better. Now that all the wires are chopped so short, the next guy has next to nothing to work with.
I wouldn't use the cable clamp screw for the Equipment Grounding Conductor. Drill and Tap for a green screw. That way you can torque it properly.
Verminator doesn't like women's chests and spends a lot of time sticking up for the guy in this video. Someone has a man crush!
FYI: You should test BOTH Hot and Neutral wires. I've seen some DIY in my home and on UA-cam (OMG) where they use whatever color they want for hot/neutral/ground. Yikes!!!
I was going to make the same point
Also, test your tester against a known live circuit to verify it's working correctly.
THIS. Another reason to check neutral (AND ground) conductors is that some people just don't pay attention to what side of a light switch they attach the neutral wire or the hot wire to, and that seemingly dead circuit could still be live. People think that an outlet or light fixture is wired correctly as long as the switch turns it on and off afterward.
@@docferringer then you also have the issue of "switch loops"
Also, there are some places where you will find shared neutrals, A Neutral which is shared between two circuits.
in the beginning of the video, test hot AND neutral, you never know if it was properly wired, maybe the hot is the neutral! or there is a backfeed
WAGO’s are the Way to Go! Absolutely love them. First heard of them on your channel. Keep up the great videos. Some of the best on UA-cam.
The problem is finding someone who carries Wago connectors **without** having to go to Amazon. Home Crappo is supposed to carry them, but I never see them there, or even any sign that they carry them at all.
@@SenileOtaku Menards carries them and Home Depot has JUST started carrying them.
1) using the clap screw as a ground would be a code violation. Its probably fine, but it would be preferable to drill and tap and use a green screw in the electrical box. 2) you didn't test the neutral wire for hot, something could be miswired somewhere or it could be a traveler wire in some cases. Always test each wire to see if hot. Additionally the touchless testers are ok, but I prefer to also test with a DVM before I start working on the wires.
Ground screws must be green and have 32 threads per inch.
If the box is new enough, it will already have the 10-32 tapped hole for a ground screw. But if not, I also prefer to drill and tap for a proper 10-32 grounding screw.
Never know what else happened years ago....
Love love LOVE setting the Wago up BEFORE trying to hold the fixture in one hand, manipulate the stiff wires with the other hand, and ... errrrr ... screw on the caps with the third hand?! Yeah, funny thing, I was not ISSUED a third hand, so this is a SUPER suggestion! Very helpful! Off to the store to pick up some Wago! Thanks!
I agree with Ed. 44 years as a residential electrical contractor. You never use a steel romex clamp to ground a box, ESPECIALLY if there is a romex under that clamp. I also use the 3M wirenuts with the skirt. You have more copper twisted together. Much better connection. Cutting the good copper even shorter is a bad habit too.
I just finished wiring my barn for lights and outlets using wago connectors for the first time. Shaved quite a bit of time too!!!
Smart man 👊
@@EverydayHomeRepairs Used Wago's on a tip from you, on a ceiling fan box that looked very very similar to what the light fixture in this ceiling looked like, solder and all. Thanks for the tip!
Always check BOTH black and white... you never know which was the switch leg, until you prove it out. Also, you shortened already short looking wires... you could have trimmed them back slightly, and wire-nutted it, or, not trimmed it, and used heat shrink insulation and a wire nut. Better choice to an already good electrical connection.
Not that being positive isn't a good idea, but because that's a junction in addition to power for the light it's far less likely that the white will be the hot side.
I'm anal and would never shorten wires if not necessary. I"ve come across situations where wires have been shorten and is a pain in the butt to work with.
@@suedenim9208 Easy to check and costs nothing. I can see it is merely a junction, but since you have the non-contact too right there, just check... I have been popped by a neutral more than once.
@@Supertrack238 Agreed. I was just pointing out that it's not merely a switch leg, where a hot white isn't at all uncommon. FWIW, I've found junction boxes that had two energized BX cables from two different circuits. IIRC they were tied together in the box. It was literally less than 10' from the *fuse* box in a basement so I just followed the cable back to see which circuit to kill. I'm glad I checked with a voltage tester anyway.
@@suedenim9208 Nice. Like the old rule, "measure twice, cut once". Same principal.
By Code these wire must protrude from a fixture or outlet a minimum of 3 inches... in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening. Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14.
250.148(C) A connection used for no other purpose shall be made between the metal box and the equipment grounding conductor(s) in accordance with 250.8.
The language has made for some debate, but I read that as the ground connection should not be doubled as a NM clamp screw. You can use a tap bit (Ideal has a nice bit set) to create a threaded hole in the top of the box, and attach with a standard ground screw.
Yup what he did for the ground was totally against code. Do not EVER do this. This why you should not have armatures making Electrical how too videos.
@@matthewq4b I guess the question for me is, Did he improve the situation? I am sure that there is some reason that you should not use a screw that is used for something else, but is it better than leaving the box ungrounded? Maybe you can explain to us armatures why this is bad?
@@martyb3783 In this situation no it is not better. Think about it he grounded to the screw that is used to clamp down the conductors... just let that sink in. He would have been better off using a screw that mounted the box. And even then that is not great. If there is a dead short or higher resistance short to ground there is the very real possibly of heating up the that screw and then the clamp which may lead to melting or possible combustion of the conductors insulation or creating a dead short. This is why grounds have to have dedicated connections to ground and NOT be multi use.
Since this is an octagon box for a celling mount light fixture he would have been better off leaving it ungrounded than doing what he did. Since he mounting a light fixture I would hope that the fixture is going to be mounted to the box using it's mounting screws this would in effect bond the box to the fixture ground which is attached to the system ground. Again this is why amateurs should NOT be doing electrical how to videos. The CEC/NEC rules are rules for a reason.
@@matthewq4b Understood. Thanks for the detailed response. I love learning new things.🙂
@@martyb3783 One problem is the torque for clamping NM is typically less than a conductor under a screw. So either the NM is being dug into too far potentially damaging the insulation, or the electrical connection is loose making for possibly higher ground resistance. When they are each their own screw, there's no chance for conflict.
I use those Wago nuts all the time now but I do go one step further and wrap electrical tape on those levers because they can pop open easily when placing the wires back into the metal boxes. Yes, I learned the hard way.
As other's have pointed out, using the wire clamp screw is a no-no code-wise.
Either drill and tap or go with a slide-on box-edge grounding clip. I have a collection of such clips along with green grounding screws of various lengths/diameters for retrofitting existing installations.
I was an electrician for 39 yrs. and it's been my experience that most pressure type electrical connections fail in time. The twist type wire nut if installed properly fail far less. I always preferred 3M brand wire nuts. Never been fond of pressure type ground connectios either. Grounds are extremely important and should always be treated as such ,your life or someone else's can depend on it. I was always taught that the code is bare minimum. If you can improve on it so much the better.
@@Verminator151029 actually, you're wrong. Wagos always fail earlier than wire nuts. A diy-er such as yourself may not know that, but the professionals do. You should probably leave electrical work to them honestly.
@@wanders278 What source do you have for this? There is plenty of evidence, through testing, that you can find here on UA-cam and other sites showing the opposite. Wagos are very strong and reliable.
yeah the wago's are fine. Can't tell you how many times I've found wirenuts off sitting in the box. When I use wirenuts I always tape them so they can't come off later, but Wago's are a vast improvement in long term reliability. Old school ways are fine, but you kind of need to move into the 21 century and take advantage of improvements.
@@wanders278 only fail when not installed correctly, and used in an over rated capacity.. (IE 32a circuit with a 20a connector).
They're spring loaded so actually are designed to expand and contract with the wire... Unlike compression screw contractor blocks which work loose (IE plug socket backs)
I suspect at the time the old fixture it was in compliance with the code of its time. I remember: good mechanical joint, solder, rubber tape, friction tape was the standard most everewhere.
I mean from what I understood the solder joint would still be code complient today. He just didn't want to deal with it needing maintance or didn't want to risk the tape breaking down after some time.
Another thing to think about is max box fill. I didn’t look this one up but boxes have a max fill based on the conductor fill, yoke, cable clamps and support fittings. Like I said i didn’t look this one up but it is a code item
Never use your linemans to grab wire and put into a wago or anything. Use your fingers. You could nick the insulation. And yes, drill and tap 10/32 for the ground screw, use a ground clip or use the hole in the box made for it. Gotta love resi guy’s techniques.
I've done push in type, but this is even better! Thanks!
What are the wire strippers you are using in this video?
You don't have to use green ground screws?
There are Green ground clips (that are approved) that push over the edge of metal boxes for case without the tapped screw hole (really old stuff)
Replacing 1" twisted pair of (mechanically sound) solid, and SOLDERED copper wire with a "Wago 221" connector, instead of replacing the tape with a red wire nut, is by far the most regressive effort in electrical wiring you could make. Wago connectors were designed for ease of use and time saving, not for improving the soundness of the termination.
He makes $$$ every time someone uses the link in the description to buy Wago's.
Plus, shortening the wires is bad when a good connection existed
I've seen connections like this many times where they twist wires together and solder them which is best because they will not come loose but they should have been covered with a wire nut , Most times I've seen is instead of using electrical tape
They would wrap them with friction tape
But if you decide to twist and solder the wires together , Don't wrap them with tape to insulate them , Use wire nuts
Back in the days when I would install a car stereo or alarm system , I always soldered all the connections because in vehicles
The connections are subject to vibration when driving down the road and for the many times I've soldered connections
Not one connection ever got loose
When soldering wires , Be absolutely sure to use rosin core solder only
Also I agree with you on those Wago connectors , They do save time but I don't know if they're really safe to use
Especially when pigtailing outlets where heating appliances are plugged into them
If using Wago connectors I recommend wrapping them with electrical tape to keep the lock levers locked in place
@@sanjonny2 You've got that right
With the wires already twisted and soldered
Should have just trimmed off the excess exposed wire and put on wire nuts because soldered connections , When done properly will never come loose
My ground wires are back wrapped like 4 inches from each box. Maybe you could do a video on refitting old grounds like mine. Love you videos!
I would expect that soldiered connection to outlast wago or wire nuts, i would have kept it.
That was done correctly..... Although not how we do it today.... Another pro tip..... Take that little volt stick and throw it as far away from u as u can.... You need a meter....use a stick to quickly check voltage if you have to and then check with your meter.... And never get in between those neutral wires like you were doing..... That is a lesson you won't forget.... Unbalanced loads on your neutral, is a thing....
What’s a good wire to buy if the wires are too short and I need to extend them ?
Could you please suggest how to wire shop/ceiling Fluorescent Lights into an ordinary outlet?
I worked on a house that had knob and tube wiring. All of the connections were soldered and taped, but there were no junction boxes. Also, back then there was no such thing as the plastic tape we have today, but a cloth based "friction tape".
Well everyone is right about the dedicated ground screw, but lets not forget that for older boxes without a threaded hole, there is a green metal clip that slides over the front edge of the box. Sometimes called a ground clip. Since these wires were all soldered, cloth friction tape would be the solution. It was used for years before plastic and becomes a solid mass over time. It will not come off! Also better quality plastic tape is long lasting too, it is the cheap stuff that fails to adhear over time. I too think I would have just connected to the free ends with wire nuts or wago connectors. There is no better connection than solder, not even wago. Solder only went away because it was labor intensive.
So what if the wire from the electrical panel to the light fixture have no ground? What do you do in that situation?
Ummmm . . . I've seldom seen ground wires connected with other than crimp sleeves (in professional installations). Does the NEC allow Wago for ground wire connections?
I’m confused on why there are 3 sets of black wires. Even if you’re passing power over to another source wouldn’t it only be 2 sets? Or is it passing power over to 2 other sources?
What! No fourzee! One thing that happened to me with the Wago’s, I pushed the wires into the box and the lever hit another wire and flipped open. Gotta be careful about that.
Might seem excessive, but I usually wrap a little tape around the Wago when I'm done to secure the tabs from accidental movement, because yeah, this happens a lot if you aren't careful stuffing it into the box.
UK sparky here... Yes we do the wrap of tape too... With solid core the push in wagos are great and can't come loose like the lever (same exact mechanism but no lever so you have to push the wires in) not sure if they are to code in the USA tho... Wago product code is 2273-xxx instead of 221-xxx. They do a 4 way in that range too and they're even smaller
I will also add that after about 40 years of hanging lights, It is far easier to attach the pig tails in the box and put them into the fixture when mounting the light. Then make the final connection with the light mounted. Why would you ever want to make a connection with a four foot or even 8 foot light hanging loose.
The box seemed to wiggle around a lot. Was it secured to anything?
What would you do if you had a plastic box rather than a metal one with no ground wire in the box?
Why don't they make a 4-wire WAGO? That's the one that I seem to need often and you could have used one twice in your box. Besides, the 5-wire just takes up more room in the box.
Should definitely check neutral wire. I just had a circuit with a three way light switch go out. I checked the breaker and it was on. I then started to check the connection on that circuit and found a hot neutral. Then found a failed three way switch that was approximately 25 years old.
It's against code to use the screw from the clamp as the ground you must put a grounding screw pigtail or clip
Thanks for the feedback
Now, if the other side has a clamp without wires, remove the clamp and use that screw for a ground. It's not green, but my objection to using that screw is that with the romex in the clamp you don't have a firm connection. But, if the other clamp screw is used, you may still be against code for the ground screw not being green, but the ground is solid.
@@bobmazzi7435 Good idea but the code actually requires a green ground screw. Maybe it would fit the hole after the empty clamp is removed.
I've been using Wago connectors for several years. I love 'em. However, I've often wondered about the actual surface area of the contact with the conductors. With a wire nut, there's lots of contact, but with Wago, the contact is quite small. I couldn't disassemble a Wago to see what the actual surface area of the contact is. I ask this because, years ago, the NEC stopped allowing back wiring of receptacles with 12AWG. My understanding at the time was that it was a concern over the actual surface area of the contact.
The contact mechanism in the WAGO 221 and 222 series is nothing like that used in the stab in wiring of receptacles. The wire is pressed up against a copper bus bar by a stainless steel spring. It is a fail safe connection as the levers are opening the spring and when you allow the levers to close the spring closes. WAGO's are UL listed and CE Rated and are fully acceptable as a splicing device.
@@scottstocking6935 Thanks for the elucidation. Do you have a link to a diagram of the WAGO devices?
I like lever nuts, but when I ran into old soldered connections in my house, I left them be. I think the lever nut is less reliable.
If you start a petition to get Wago to make an inline 4 terminal connector, I'll sign it.
They already make a 5 wire connector.
@@wlipman yes, and they're asking for a 4 wire one. Are you unable to read?
@@wanders278 , I read just fine. Do you not comprehend that the 5 wire connector works for anything from 1 to 5 wires?
@@wlipman the five wire is bigger. It can be an issue in an already cramped box... Ideal do a 4 way. Not sure if they're in the USA yet?
Although it isn't a lever, just a push in
Question: I turn off the breaker in the garage to replace the light fixtures and there was some spark in the neutral. Why is that?
The neutral is likely used for another circuit that is still live.
I have a similar situation. I'm trying to replace a fluorescent light with ballast over the sink with an led fixture. The fixture is powered by a switch on the wall. I opened the florescent light fixture to get at the wires and there are two separate sets of wires. One set has two wires (black and white). The other set has three wires (black, white, and bare copper). The two wires were connected to the three wire set. Once I took them apart, the two wire set has no current even with the switch turned on. The three wire set has current even with the switch turned off. I'm confused as to why there are two sets of wires, why one set of wires have current with the switch off, and how to wire the led fixture which only has three wires (black, white, green). I want to still turn the light on using the wall switch.
Nicely done!! I've stored that one away in the memory for later.
It appears that your j-box is flapping around in the wind, not very secure... is that code compliant?
Insert obligatory non contact voltage tester disclaimer
What about NFPA 70 300.14?
Solider was legal for years. so it was legal at the time. learned this from a old timer electrician. He started in the elec trade back in the early 1950,s, and this is how he was trained before wire nuts were used. i started in the elec trade in 1978.
Doesn't get better than a properly soldered splice. Just worry about he electrical tape drying out.
@@Verminator151029 , it is safe . and i care what the old timers did. you can learn some things from them quacko,s
@@Verminator151029 , how long have you been in the trade?
@@Verminator151029 electronics are soldered, are those dangerous as well? Ridiculous.
You’re supposed to put rubber tape and or friction tape and it will last almost forever. If you find old houses where they use that method the tape is still good after 60, 70 years. If he didn’t have any rubber tape he could’ve just cut a little bit off and then put a wire nut. Those wires twisted like that are far superior to those connectors, because there is way more surface area connecting the wires. There have been UA-cam videos I’ve watched to prove this fact. Those connectors will heat up way more than if you twist wires the way that those were twisted. Basically, it was better before he touched it.
Test the neutral side too. Not all homes are wired properly. (Edit: just saw Da Hai Zhu's post...but it's worthy to post it again, I've seen this error more than once)
Are those lever nuts code compliant?
I'm anal and would never shorten wires if not necessary. I"ve come across situations where wires have been shorten and is a pain in the butt to work with.
Yes the lever nuts are code compliant and less prone to loose connections by DIYers.
The shortened wires situation is a case where Ideal spliceline connectors are ideal to extend
@@TheChipmunk2008 Since they are code compliant that would be great.
Another advantage of Wago connectors is when stranded and solid wire are being joined together. Wire nuts are pretty easy with all solid or all stranded wire, but a mix of both can become a problem when using wire nuts. (I am sure pros would say never, but for DIYers- yes.)
I’ve never cut length off wires coming out of box . Once it’s gone it’s gone.
New to your channel, lot of great stuff for a DIY’r. Thank you!
What do you think of those ground wires being crimped together to begin with? I keep finding them all over my house. It looks cheap...but it's just ground wires...so I'm always hesitant to bother wasting Wago's on them.
The crimp connectors are code compliant, so I'm fairly sure that better minds than ours think they do the job. A ground connection should only be energized long enough to trip a breaker so you don't have the same issues with surface area and heat that you would with a connection that's energized for long periods of time, but I suspect you get more contact with a crimp sleeve over twisted wires than with a wago. And FWIW, a properly crimped sleeve can usually be cut off with diagonal cutters instead of sacrificing some of the wire.
Those are Buchannan connectors these ones are uninsulated for the ground and there are insulated ones for the neutral and hot.. They are the best connector if done properly short of soldering. These were used before marretts /wire nuts were seen wide spread use. They typically are seen in installation's done prior to 65 or so in the US and pre WWII in Canada. Wire nuts were invented in Canada and were quickly adopted with them being pretty much replacing crimp ons by WWII. Adoption in the US was a little slower.
My problem with the crimped grounds method when I come across them is that typically, they cut the ground leads super short and have them crimped together in the back of the box. So I still end up using a Wago even with the crimp in place to get a pigtail out where I need it.
instead of adding that pigtail to ground the box, could you have just connect the bare copper wire coming from the Romex cable to that box screw and get same results??
Think about the rest of the grounds in the chain.
@@BDBD16 I'm assuming the question meant grounding to the screw without disturbing the crimp connection.
Great video. thanks for sharing. Quick question; how long have the Wagos been per code? (Been a while since I worked in the electrical field and a lot has changed.)
Better than wire nuts... Same principle as screw contractor blocks. Although with correct enclosures are maintenance free and can be hidden to never be seen again
I would have left the soldered connections alone. They are more mechanically and electrically sound than almost anything when done properly. Cutting them off made the wires too short. They were short to begin with. Never had electrical tape drop off. If anything, it gets gooey with age and is nasty to get off. You can always wrap friction tape over it like the old timer's did. Needed to drill and tap for a separate ground screw if there isn't one in the box.
The box ground is not to code the way you showed to do it.
Will you make a video on how too attatch a new light fixture? I'm kinda stupid 😅
Thanks for the feedback, I have another one just like this that I could document. I will add it to the list of video ideas 👍
@@EverydayHomeRepairs nice 😊
if you do this trade long enough, there will be a time you will have to work things hot and knowing the proper tools what is essential.
In this scenario, I would have used a pair of Dikes. In this trade work as if everything is energy.
Anyone else thinking in 30 years people will be wondering why we used these plastic clips. Not sold on the idea unless it is for low power LEDs that need frequent changing.
Shortening the conductors length not a good idea and if it were a code compliment installation when the work was originally done it’s now non code compliant the conductors are not to proper length and improper use of grounding method. Ask your friend Joel welsman he’s a master electrician he would advise you.
Thanks for the feedback Denny.
I would have left the wires soldered and just snipped the tip slightly so a regular wire nut would fit over it completely.
That sure didn't look like a green ground screw..
Wago is fantastic
Watch those neutrals. If' it's a MWBC you can get bit pretty hard if you touch the wrong things at the right time. Other electricians will know what I mean LOL.
Wago commercial buried within bad technique. Just shorten the well-twisted and soldered wires and install a wire nut.
I appreciate your videos. However you state you have enough wire length to cut off when the standard is 6 inches. You cut off to 2 inches.
No, you check both sides. Hot, neutral & ground
I don't understand why you would use WD 40 or any other oil on electrical wires. So what if the insulation is a little sticky. Also you might be cutting and stripping the sticky part away anyway. WD 40 is oil. It breaks down plastic, like insulation for example. It also ignites if it gets hot enough or if there is a spark arc from a loose wire.
When I was a kid, my Dad had a bug zapper. The electric grid inside was getting rusty, so I had the brilliant idea to spray it with WD 40 so it wouldn't rust. Being young and stupid, I failed to see my flaw until it zapped a bug, created a spark and caught the thing on fire, and almost caught the roof of the house on fire. Being a dumb, smart kid, I unplugged it and hit it with the garden hose, and saved the house. Lesson learned, the hard way.
That's probably why he wiped it off after he used it.
I'll never understand why these videos attract people like you that lack critical thinking abilities.
@@wanders278 Probably for the same reason you lack the critical thinking of the realization of residue. Maybe your just too lazy to do mental aerobics and rather spend the energy on removing all doubt of you being thought of as a fool.
Why you like wago connectors? They are free to you but for the common home owner wire nuts are more convenient and a he'll of a lot cheaper!
I think Wago is just a better option for DIY homeowners. Results in a more consistent connection especially on application like ceiling light fixtures. Might come as a surprise but I pay full price for the WAGOs I use just like my viewers but I am happy to do it 👍
Instead of worrying about bulbs, you have to worry about replacing the whole fixture in 5 years.
👍 well done 👍
Technically it’s still a code violation. The wires are to short.
hello, any chance for us to work together? we willing to sponsor a 4K POE security camera system to you to install or test out. The detail i had emailed you and waiting for your reply.
Box needs to be drilled and tapped to accept a ground screw.
Or even a ground clip is better practice
No, no it does not.
@@wanders278 what does not? If the box doesn't have a hole to accept a ground screw either a clip has to be utilized or tap and thread
Those little wire connectors suck.
FYI, wago is german so the W should be pronounced like a V
@Danny FYI, in North America, Wago is pronounced exactly as he says it. 10 seconds to check-- watch any official Wago video at ua-cam.com/users/WAGOCORP
You're velcome. ;)
And? He isn't German clearly. Your pronunciation is stupid, stop trying to push it on people.
Wires cut too short.
The connection made by those wires being twisted together and Soldered was 500 times far superior to those Connectors you used. The surface area from the wires being twisted like that and soldering, so much better. Throw some rubber tape on those connections and then the black tape and it would’ve been way better. Also, you shorten that up so much now the wires are too short. I know you love those connectors and I know it’s the craze nowadays but I guarantee you that twisting your wires together is far superior to those connectors. There have been tests that have been done on UA-cam to prove that point.
I agree, generally. For me Wago's are good for limited use such as where wires in a box are too short (like after he shortened them here) and when joining solid and stranded, like for light fixtures.
I have to 100% DISAGREE with your video. The twisted, soldered, and taped wire connections are way more solid and secure and safe than those newer connectors. I love Wagos. Yes they are good. I use them all the time. But there is NO good reason to cut out and replace those soldered and taped connections. Saying tape will dry out and fail ? No. I have taken apart tape insulated connections that were older than I am, and they are just fine. And I work on all kinds of industrial machines, even where oil gets in. Never a problem with the tape. I think you are falling into the trap of thinking old is bad, new is good. The intelligent approach is to evaluate each situation for it's merits and detractors. It is a cop out to think old is bad, just because. Someone did an excellent job on that wiring and you cut it out. If you were that concerned with the tape, why didn't you just re-tape it? ? ? By cutting all the wires back, you shortened all of them. Not a good practice either. I would NOT have taken the approach that you did with this job, but hey, your channel, your rules. I just want to give people a different prospective than the one you presented here to stimulate thought. Good day. --Doozer
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Why not just put wire nut on.It is already for it . You sir are a the mixed up
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People who cut wires too short are clowns
DAAA
This guy is an amateur don’t take him seriously
Sorry, you lost me a “wagon”. I’ll stick to real electrical work, not Lego
You're calling these new & improved wire connectors WHAT? Hey you're talking to novice DIY people. If you're going to hawk some fancy new product the least you can do is leave a comment beneath your video showing the correct name for these "warchamycallits".
🤓👍👌🖖✌️😎