I actually think us using the vessel we created at the beginning is pretty much certain at some point, as we see a direct parallel in the game as we have it now. When we make the "ultimate destroyer robot" or whatever it's called in chapter one, it gets blown up, and we think it's a one-time lil haha moment. but, if you know anything about writing, you'll know a little rule called: "Chekhov’s gun". This writing rule states that if a story pays any attention to any one object, that thing MUST be used, or it is obligatory, and you need to cut that part out. Oh, and - wow, what a surprise.... it seems that that "ultimate destroyer machine" thing comes back again in chapter 2. in this instance us making something, then thinking its destroyed, only for it to come up again and be a large player in the destruction of the conflict. I would not be surprised if the vessel ends up fighting us, then ultimately becoming a weapon that will help us defeat the conflict. bringing the vessel back also resolves one of the other conflicts, which is our ethically questionable control of Kris, and how that is starting to affect the narrative. With our soul in the vessel, Kris will be free. anyways, wonderful video. def agree with pretty much all of your points, just wanted to add further backing ;)
I can imagine in chapter 7 Kris removing his soul and putting it in the vessel kinda like with Spamton disk and now giving us players a body inside the game that isn't other sentient character
reminds me of wings of fire when they reveal the prophecy was made up by morrowseer as part of an elaborate plan to take over the rainforest, and because the actual dragonets of the prophecy are against this, he quickly gathers another group of dragonets to replace them, despite those dragonets not really fitting the description of the prophecy all the way.
Lancer confirms that the images in the prophecy are part of it (Teardrop headed kid. You know... from the legend?) so i would trust the images. and the vessel can be bald but the guy in the prophecy has hair. so the prophecy guy is probably kris
That is true yes. The imagery that we see does reflect the reality the game presents us with. I still wonder if the prophecy, as we see it, is 100% true, though. I think it depends whose perspective the imagery is coming from. Ralsei is the one reciting the prophecy at the beginning of the game, so the imagery could be a reflection of his thoughts on how things will end. It could show Kris-like, Susie-like, and Ralsei-like silhouettes because that's who Ralsei thinks will be the ones to seal the fountains. It's possible that Ralsei is misinformed, or is just assuming it will be Susie and Kris alongside himself who banish the angel’s heaven. In reality, the prophecy *could* be more lenient and less specific than Ralsei makes it seem.
Ralsei’s most sus moment is when he tells us to imagine what is going on every time anything happened off screen for another character and we have options for them. And how he is able to cross over to one dark world but other darkeners can’t. Even Spamton calls him out.
before watching the video: I think he just can go to light world but it's weird because hes a spam email he has no physical body so maybe he just stays in his darkner body? also this is ironic because in trying to break free he would become even more trapped because the soul would allow us to control him like we control kris right?
Well, if that happened, then the roaring would happen way earlier than it should because kris needs the soul to close the fountain and the roaring would be bad
I had forgotten about how it saves the choices for the Vessel. & also, I'm not sure if I've seen that concept art before. Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Funnily enough, there is a moment in the game where Spamton CAN get our soul. During the NEO battle, his ultimate big attack, if you don't shoot at all he'd actually absorb the soul, and it gives him a coughing fit and he *rejects it,* dealing damage to him in the process. Could be that the soul's power is too much for him to handle, so much that it was poisoning him from the inside.
I like to imagine Spamton would become a lightner and then would scam people in our world-if he can send a lightner(noelle) a pipis though email, he probably can do the same to us.
So, this is just a theory. But i feel pretty good about the idea the conflict between us and kris will grow so much. That kris will chuck us as far away as possible from them possibly into a dark world. Where we the player will be given our vessel back and have to make it back to kris.
With these sort of theories its important to keep in mind something Toby Fox stated regarding official merch, which was that most lightners are going to suffer changes or not be available to use in the future, and that's why there are no plushes or other kinds of merch of them. If the Soul gets removed at a point, it would explain a lot about this
The post from his tumblr specifically reads as: "I told Fangamer [the official source of Undertale/Deltarune merch] that certain characters would be off limits after a point. ... This includes Kris, Noelle, & Susie..." To me that "off limits after a point" sounds more like Toby got tired of rejecting ideas and gave them a no-go list, not that there's a point of no return in the game itself where we lose 3 of our 4 currently playable characters including our MC and usual PoV. I highly doubt Toby would ever reveal such a massive plot point in a post clarifying a lack of merch even in general terms. There is likely a lore or thematic reason for Tobt not wanting certain characters officially commodified but we almost definitely don't know it for sure yet. Edit: Also official plushes currently include Lancer, Jevil, & Spamton; in fact aside from Ralsei every official Undertale/Deltarune plush available is an unplayable character so it definitely seems lack of playability isn't the reason there's no Kris merch.
@@PepperoniMage I’m guessing that the thematic reason is that the light world characters are supposed to be treated as real people who want to be left alone and live their lives, while the dark world characters are meant to be toys whose purpose is to please us
OOOOOOOO YES WEIRD THEORIES THAT RECONTEXTUALIZE THE WHOLE GAME WHICH FOR ALL INTENCE AND PURPOSES ARE PORBABLY GONNAS BRE WRONGH ON EVERY LEVEL LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO
THEORY, if the vessal returns, you know how it dosent have color... Yeah that's where our ideas/opnions/thoughts on it come to life. Like feeling "hate" for it makes it a malicous character to hate, feeling optimistic makes it a better more natural character Likes [insert taste] decides the likeness of ceartin foods (like the choco spade) I think at least the taste part of the vessal is important into game machanics
Honestly that would be SO COOL if our choices at the beginning actually affected how the vessel acts if/when we see them. This could purely result in different dialogue at the least, and perhaps gameplay changes at the most.
There’s a little friend inside all of us
2:25 "KRIS DO YOU WANT TO BE A [Heart] [On a chain] YOUR WHOLE LIFE?" I would say that acknowledged the Player
""THE GONNER protocol"" create (hyperlink blocked) WHERE THE PLAYER CAN NOT ACCESS
I WILL BE WAITING AT WORLD EDGE WHEN THE HERO'S WILL ARRIVE
God I need to go outside more... I read that as gooner protocol...
@@BananaBoi27 same 😭😭
Imagine if prince from the dark was lancer
Imagine… - (Signed, Lancer)
I thought I was the only one to think of that
And the monster Noelle
To be honest I forgot that ralsei existed
I seriously thought you were talking about lancer
Then both realizations hit
He's no longer a prince tho
I actually think us using the vessel we created at the beginning is pretty much certain at some point, as we see a direct parallel in the game as we have it now. When we make the "ultimate destroyer robot" or whatever it's called in chapter one, it gets blown up, and we think it's a one-time lil haha moment. but, if you know anything about writing, you'll know a little rule called: "Chekhov’s gun". This writing rule states that if a story pays any attention to any one object, that thing MUST be used, or it is obligatory, and you need to cut that part out. Oh, and - wow, what a surprise.... it seems that that "ultimate destroyer machine" thing comes back again in chapter 2. in this instance us making something, then thinking its destroyed, only for it to come up again and be a large player in the destruction of the conflict. I would not be surprised if the vessel ends up fighting us, then ultimately becoming a weapon that will help us defeat the conflict.
bringing the vessel back also resolves one of the other conflicts, which is our ethically questionable control of Kris, and how that is starting to affect the narrative. With our soul in the vessel, Kris will be free.
anyways, wonderful video. def agree with pretty much all of your points, just wanted to add further backing ;)
I can imagine in chapter 7 Kris removing his soul and putting it in the vessel kinda like with Spamton disk and now giving us players a body inside the game that isn't other sentient character
@@koxbalon I can def see that!
"You can now play as spamton"
spamton time
If he did, the spamton plush ad would be canon
*yes*
reminds me of wings of fire when they reveal the prophecy was made up by morrowseer as part of an elaborate plan to take over the rainforest, and because the actual dragonets of the prophecy are against this, he quickly gathers another group of dragonets to replace them, despite those dragonets not really fitting the description of the prophecy all the way.
Lancer confirms that the images in the prophecy are part of it (Teardrop headed kid. You know... from the legend?) so i would trust the images. and the vessel can be bald but the guy in the prophecy has hair. so the prophecy guy is probably kris
That is true yes. The imagery that we see does reflect the reality the game presents us with.
I still wonder if the prophecy, as we see it, is 100% true, though. I think it depends whose perspective the imagery is coming from. Ralsei is the one reciting the prophecy at the beginning of the game, so the imagery could be a reflection of his thoughts on how things will end. It could show Kris-like, Susie-like, and Ralsei-like silhouettes because that's who Ralsei thinks will be the ones to seal the fountains. It's possible that Ralsei is misinformed, or is just assuming it will be Susie and Kris alongside himself who banish the angel’s heaven.
In reality, the prophecy *could* be more lenient and less specific than Ralsei makes it seem.
Ralsei’s most sus moment is when he tells us to imagine what is going on every time anything happened off screen for another character and we have options for them. And how he is able to cross over to one dark world but other darkeners can’t. Even Spamton calls him out.
before watching the video: I think he just can go to light world but it's weird because hes a spam email he has no physical body so maybe he just stays in his darkner body?
also this is ironic because in trying to break free he would become even more trapped because the soul would allow us to control him like we control kris right?
Well, if that happened, then the roaring would happen way earlier than it should because kris needs the soul to close the fountain and the roaring would be bad
soul inside me
Soul inside kris
Spamton joins the battle!
I had forgotten about how it saves the choices for the Vessel. & also, I'm not sure if I've seen that concept art before.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
He would become our puppet...
_You can now play as Spamton_
*we would become *his puppet
He already is a puppet
@@TheSkyGuy77 yes but that shouldn't change the sentence structure, OP was right
Funnily enough, there is a moment in the game where Spamton CAN get our soul.
During the NEO battle, his ultimate big attack, if you don't shoot at all he'd actually absorb the soul, and it gives him a coughing fit and he *rejects it,* dealing damage to him in the process.
Could be that the soul's power is too much for him to handle, so much that it was poisoning him from the inside.
huh I NEVER knew about this!! It could be that if Spamton did absorb the soul, that it would've overpowered him anyway.
A Deltarune what if?
That's amazing 🤩
I like to imagine Spamton would become a lightner and then would scam people in our world-if he can send a lightner(noelle) a pipis though email, he probably can do the same to us.
This is a question I’ve been looking answers for
So, this is just a theory. But i feel pretty good about the idea the conflict between us and kris will grow so much. That kris will chuck us as far away as possible from them possibly into a dark world. Where we the player will be given our vessel back and have to make it back to kris.
im still a little skeptical but you may be cookinf with the hypothesis that the human in the prophecy is the vessel
When it specifically said HUMAN, that was the nail in the coffin for me with this theory lol
With these sort of theories its important to keep in mind something Toby Fox stated regarding official merch, which was that most lightners are going to suffer changes or not be available to use in the future, and that's why there are no plushes or other kinds of merch of them. If the Soul gets removed at a point, it would explain a lot about this
Pretty sure that’s not what he said
The post from his tumblr specifically reads as: "I told Fangamer [the official source of Undertale/Deltarune merch] that certain characters would be off limits after a point. ... This includes Kris, Noelle, & Susie..."
To me that "off limits after a point" sounds more like Toby got tired of rejecting ideas and gave them a no-go list, not that there's a point of no return in the game itself where we lose 3 of our 4 currently playable characters including our MC and usual PoV. I highly doubt Toby would ever reveal such a massive plot point in a post clarifying a lack of merch even in general terms.
There is likely a lore or thematic reason for Tobt not wanting certain characters officially commodified but we almost definitely don't know it for sure yet.
Edit: Also official plushes currently include Lancer, Jevil, & Spamton; in fact aside from Ralsei every official Undertale/Deltarune plush available is an unplayable character so it definitely seems lack of playability isn't the reason there's no Kris merch.
Just saying that Chara was describen as representing something that "can't be bought in a store", so I suspect it's about the same thing
@@PepperoniMage
I’m guessing that the thematic reason is that the light world characters are supposed to be treated as real people who want to be left alone and live their lives, while the dark world characters are meant to be toys whose purpose is to please us
OOOOOOOO YES WEIRD THEORIES THAT RECONTEXTUALIZE THE WHOLE GAME WHICH FOR ALL INTENCE AND PURPOSES ARE PORBABLY GONNAS BRE WRONGH ON EVERY LEVEL LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO
Asorb
Maybe in the weird route the prophecy is fulfilled with different characters(?)
I was thinking about that yesterday
this happened in my fan fiction
...I think that would cause something worse than the Roaring... o_o
Spamton would gain our abilities and relegate us to the role of puppet or NPC...
A human could be referring to us as being neutral term for anyone playing the game (the soul) us the soul will seal the fountain not Kris.
Asorb
it is discarded that mean it exist elsewhere
PLEASEEEE MAKE A VIDEO ON THE NEW PSYCHOLOGICAL HORROR GAME TSUNAGARI CHESS SCHOOL
Can you make a theory on the new game tsunagari chess school, it appears to have deep mysteries
THEORY, if the vessal returns, you know how it dosent have color...
Yeah that's where our ideas/opnions/thoughts on it come to life. Like feeling "hate" for it makes it a malicous character to hate, feeling optimistic makes it a better more natural character
Likes [insert taste] decides the likeness of ceartin foods (like the choco spade)
I think at least the taste part of the vessal is important into game machanics
Blood type probably induces color
Honestly that would be SO COOL if our choices at the beginning actually affected how the vessel acts if/when we see them. This could purely result in different dialogue at the least, and perhaps gameplay changes at the most.
@HarryButHarry it'd also be cool if they all actually affected character specific game mechanics (again like choco diamond)
You look like dream
You are cool.