Gaster is Pulling OUR Strings! | Deltarune: Devil's Heaven | Deltarune Theory Discussion Analysis
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- It's been quite a while since the last Deltarune relaase, and it feels as if Deltarune Chapters 3 and 4 are imminent. For quite a while, I've wanted to make a video like this- a massive video that discusses everything I think is happening with Gaster, the Metanarrative, Kris, and more. This video won't go into too many details, the point is to identify what story the game is telling and why that story is important. After examining the story of Deltarune for years now, I have a bad feeling about the fate of the Fun Gang…
#deltarune #deltarunechapter2
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First look at these Frequently Asked Questions!
Q: What exactly is this video? It’s not really a theory, and it talks about a lot of stuff we already know about.
A: This video is everything I think Deltarune is doing story-wise from beginning to end. Yeah, that includes recapping and recontextualizing stuff we already know. This isn’t a big “you’ll never guess… what’ll happen next…” type theory. I want to be able to look back at this when the game is out and say “wow I was very much generally correct” or “wow I was really wrong.” Making a theory that’s too specific and too broad would be based primarily on speculation alone and would instantly be shot down. I don’t know, I hope you like it.
Q: What took so long?
A: Yeah sorry, as I explain in the end, I had a few early drafts that took a while and didn’t sound any good, then life got in the way and stopped me from working on it for a while. There won’t be another four month break in between videos LOL.
Q: The editing kinda falls off after the first ten minutes
A: Shut up.
Q: There’s a problem with a specific section of audio/video/you said a line twice
A: I am sorry dude but this took me long enough to make, I could not imagine going back in and doing more work on this lol. I listened to this like three times in full so I don’t think there’s any mistakes, but if there are- oopsies.
Q: Bill Murray?
A: Did you find all fourteen!?
Haha too late I commented
bil muraty
katana ZERO music went hard asf
dude, i like yout editing, great podcast to think about while doing other stuff
@@whentheyD agreed the bloody "breath of the dragon" drop at the mention of "him" was insane.
imagine the Devil making a pact with God to grant God control over you. kris is going through some shit
What's worse is that does happen in the Bible. Satan makes a bet with God to test Job's faith, God makes Job's life impossible for years, killing his family, taking his wealth, leaving him sick, but he keeps believing God will turn it around in the end. Then God physically appears before Job to question him directly, and he ends up telling God he will keep believing even through hardship, getting new of everything he's lost, even a new family.
Some context, a Satan is a figure that questions God's judgement in a manner similar as questioning your boss, it was the job of that being, so it isn't the same "Satan" we know today; as well as the societal norms not being the same, so there's bound to be weird stuff we don't understand today of that story.
Jesus lore
Job be like... Sort of
Kris be goin' through some sh!t..
@@YaboiFoxTale Literally Job lore
Theory time:
Kris is heavily associated with Apples
Kris is scared of something in the bunker that is heavily associated with Gaster.
Kris possibly doesn't want to see Gaster again. Hence being afraid of the bunker.
Apples are fabled to keep something specific away.
Susie drinking the shampoo has doomed Deltarune world, Kris will run out and Gaster will no longer be kept away.
@@zeehansen3011 Made me laugh.
An apple a day keeps the gasters away
Gaster is like a fanfic writer, changing an already existing story into a linear narrative for his own enjoyment. 😆
Ever heard of mollystars???
@@wowie-zowie
Yesss 😊
Gaster goes unga bunga.
Kind of, however I think Gaster is taking a nonexistent story and turning it into his own linear narrative. I like the idea that the Light World, not under our/Gaster's control, is not a linear narrative. Like the dark world, it exists in the realm of pure potential. The characters within are free to live however they want, as they no longer exist in a story meant for our eyes.
@@spookydood5500 like a quantum particle's position being set when it's observed
"Deltarune is a subversion... of the Earthbound Halloween hack"
Now THAT is peak brainrot.
Jokes aside, holy shit what an insanely great video, thank you Spookydood
When you started listing all the apple stuff, I really thought you were about to say “an Apple a day keeps the doctor away; WD Gaster-“
HELP THAT'D BEEN SO FUNNY
Deltarune if it was peak!
Kris every chapter keeps away the Gaster.
If Kris has a copious amount of apples laying around somewhere it would explain why Gaster hasn't shown up yet
Kris might need more apple shampoo, lol.
1:01:51 its very interesting how at the end of the weird route the "dont forget" guitar riff thing doesnt play when we seal the fountain which probably means whoever was with us in the dark is no longer there or is in the process of being removed
the secret gnome with the guitar runs away in terror
@@uprank * there is no audience
Idk why but in the process of being removed is a very funny sentence in this context
@@ThisIsAHandle-xz5yo
“You’ve been very naughty this chapter, player! No triumphant guitar riff for you!”
I knew it. Berdly was in us with the dark
4:56 It's never actually stated anywhere that Rudy is dying, everyone in the fandom just thinks he's lying about being fine to Noelle, but there is always a slim chance that Toby doesn't intent to make us cry over a dead relative in the game with an area dedicated to dead relatives.
Actually, Asgore says somewhere in a Toby made-thing (I don't remember where) that Rudy had died in Undertale, though this could be to bait us into thinking he's going to die in Deltarune when he's going to be fine.
@@WillTheNetherKingFarmer It was the Alarm clock discarded dialogue
@@Lilit_1234 Thanks!
@@WillTheNetherKingFarmer Fair, yeah I'm banking on it a psyche out. (I could also see Toby making it route specific just to make weird route more suprising.)
I've been watching a lot of Deltarune theories and this is the first one I can say makes perfect sense. I think this is the closest we can get to a perfect prediction with the information we have now
29:17
An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
DAMN
WAIT
OH SHIT
Oh my d.ogg 😆
Good thing I'm not a doctor!
okay ive got more to say in a later comment but I just realized why the mystery man shows up with a fun value of 66 and an extra 1 in ten chance
its because the one in ten chance has to land another 6 to complete the set, isnt it
wait omg you're right.......
erm,, akkshualsy.... that would be a one in 660 chance 🐦🤓
edit: fun value goes up to 100, so it's actually a one in 1000 chance (100 x 10)
I think they meant that out of the 10 numbers the random number generator can choose, it has to pick a 6 in order to complete the set.
1:02:02 this made me think, what if the blue bead does not mean that berdly died, but that the other blue character, kris, broke free of the set path?
But that’s just a theory! A… [bigshot] theory!
I assumed that Berdly didn’t die, but “just” ended up comatose or something
The ending you described makes me think that Fanfiction genuinely becomes the natural evolution of the story. Deltarune ends and it's your job to keep everyone going past the end
Maybe Toby Fox considered that angle after seeing just how much fan content Undertale got back in the day
i will make the afton family move into the town then i will make all of the lightners explode
@@PWNDON Yoshikage Kira moves in and activates Killer Queen
If the idea is to let go, isn't continuing the story through made up narratives kinda the opposite of letting go?
Kinda reminds me of what itoi said about mother 3's ending
Just so you know Spookydood, I was just watching that one "Can Mr Bean kill Superman" video before this so when Mr Bean showed up ten seconds into the video I screamed.
The universe works in mysterious ways... Much like the writings of one very annoying dog.
*You cannot escape him*
Ibknewbit
What do you mean? Mr. Bean never showed up.
Friend inside me
Friend inside me
Freind inside me
Friend inside me
Friend inside me
friend inside me
Hell yeah I new 1.5 hours long Deltarune theory video to listen to at 1:00 am and fall asleep with just to then wake up all sweaty without a sock and the phone broken in another room 🗣️
dude, you were victim of a gnome attack
Did you ever recover the sock is my question
Hell yeah
funny how i started to watch this at 1am, 30 mins ago haha
Man, I hate it when that happens to me.
"good video games stop you from quitting halfway through the story. you need to reach the ending"
>playing music from Yume Nikki
i wonder if this idea will be subverted
It's very nice to see a video analyzing the narrative of DELTARUNE! Many theorists and Deltatubers ask "How?" but you're the one that consistently asks "Why?" even if the video is heavy on speculation, which is great in my opinion. Good job on the video!
This is really well written and offers a lot of interesting potential for how things could go in the future. Even if it's wrong, this will still be fun to look back on as a piece of fanfiction, and I think that's the sign of a good theory video. As long as it can tell a good story then the theory was worth considering.
This theory also has some parallels to WandyDoodles' Oblivion Theory. Idk if you know about that theory and kept the information about it in mind when writing yours, but if not I really recommend checking it out. It differs in a few big ways from what you've written here(mainly on Kris Knight but WandyDoodles provides a compelling alternative candidate), but the stuff you have to say about Gaster and the comparison between the Darkners being subservient to Lightners while the Lightners are written into their own roles for our entertainment is very similar to Oblivion Theory. Again, anyone reading this comment who liked this theory and want more should check out Oblivion Theory.
I surprised not a lot of people (at least it ia that way to me) give the Oblivion Theory the time of day.
my neurons lit up like christmas lights near the end when you started playing penumbra phantasm. you did not just cook with this one, this shit is straight up gourmet
especially after saying "banish the angel's heaven" too (i think it was smth like that lol)
felt like i was playing chapter 7 lmao
(skipped to that section and okay nvm i was misremembering shit. he djd not say that lol)
40:40 Erm, the angel did WHAT?! * unnecessarily long laugh track*
Imagine the hype when Kris rips out the red heart and speaks straight to US. Or answers to questions completely differently than what we chose
That's horrifying 😅
don’t have much constructive to say beyond i appreciate how thoughtfully you’ve chosen to address this compared to how superficial a lot of other analyses have felt to me (not trying to put those down though because they’re a unique kind of fun too!)-you really take in the fullness of deltarune as a work of art created by a person for a reason with themes in mind as opposed to, like just a platform for expositing some wily theories. especially salient when theorycrafting can be so enriched by considering what the ultimate message of a work is looking to be instead of just pure plot details or logistics.
also after pretty much believing many of these exact ideas myself i am feeling super vindicated by somebody funny cool and thoughtful presenting them in a more articulate and compelling way
As much fun as it is to look at some of the cold hard facts, theorizing on what the games overall message is and how it will be conveyed is very fun.
Just a random tangent but it’s interesting to me how the game may or may not have an equivalent to “In this world it’s kill or be killed”.
It’s probably going to be the whole “No one can choose who they are in this world” and “Your choices don’t matter” but who’s to say for sure!
I’m just excited to see where Toby is going to be taking us to with this story of his.
most deltarune analysis feel more like crackpot theoeries and just pattern recognition gone way too far without considering the actual themes the story wants to tell. this one actually makes sense both within the in game canon, and most importantly, when considering deltarune is also a story that toby is telling
I love the evolution of “guys here’s my defense of Kris being the knight but it doesn’t mean I believe it I’m just playing devils advocate” to “KRIS IS THE KNIGHT IM NOT EVEN HIDING IT”
i'm a fan of the use of inscryption music here
I was literally looking everywhere for the music, especially at 29:45 and a bit earlier!
It’s very fitting. Two games where characters acknowledge they are in a game
Angel’s Hell
Devil’s Heaven
Nice
Heaven or Hell! Let's rock!
The Human's Earth?
@@TheSkyGuy77 The Human's Moon and The Alien's Earth
The Gaster lore is cool but I think it’s better when people remember this is still a story with characters we all like. There’s a real story, real character arcs and a thematic purpose to all these cool ideas beyond just “isn’t it trippy how meta it is?”
Thats why I prefer theories like this that try to actually tie in the character arcs of Kris and stuff. It's also why I want Gaster to be the actual Bad Guy, because I don't like it when he's just a trippy background element. Being the villain would give him more relevance to the story.
@pancakes8670 Gaster being the villain just has no evidence as it stands. He's pretty much just associated a villain role in the story based on vibes and because we have no other villain candidate.
Gaster has consistently been portrayed as benevolent so far across both UT and DR. He was the royal scientist, he made the CORE to benefit his people. He wants to "create a new future" with the player. He helped Spamton make deals. If we trust the valentines day letter (despite community objections, Gaster is the most likely candidate of the sender) he wants to help someone. That someone is most likely Noelle due to the obscene amount of connections Gaster and her share (although it could also be Dess). He may have even contacted Noelle before and may even attempt to do so in the game (Noelle has a special interaction with the unused Java cookie where she shes strange symbols instead of basic words).
The problem with Gaster antagonist theories is motivation more than anything. Why would he set up the end of the world? I know we don't have that much characterization for him but from what we do have, it doesn't seem like he'd do something like that.
@@evilness3404 Gaster's intention can be interpreted multiply ways. I mean no offense but all things that you said here is the result of an already established assumption that gaster is the good guy. You tried to justify your assumption with the evidences. However, i guess it should be finding the evidence first and assuming both ways, good guy or bad guy. And the way you mention the evidences about how good gaster is, You assume that he "has consistently been portrayed as benevolent so far across both UT and DR" and "Gaster being the villain just has no evidence as it stands". You kinda contradict yourself.
I mean, based on the evidence found. People can interpreted it muliple ways. There's no saying that if you can't prove he is the villain, doesn't mean you can prove he is the good guy either. The information and evidence are already there. However, the problem is how all of those informations and evidences mean something? Did it told us whether gaster is good or bad guy? We just need confirmation of those informations and evidences in the future chapters.
You talk about spamton and the deal but completely ignore his insanity. It's like you only take part of the evidence just enough to justify your first assumption, that is gaster is good guy. Also, people can assume whoever the writer of the valentine's card. But the way you go way further into assuming that the person needing help whether Noelle or Dess is a lil far fetched. But i'm still understand that Noelle may be related to game glitching and may have contact with gaster, but in different scenario. That's still quite the posibility.
However, "creatng a new future" with you. I mean, "you" itself may not directed to the player, but let's assume it is. Creating a new future can't be interpreted as good only. Something new means there is something old. Something old transforming into something new needs a change. Change sometimes associated with destruction because there won't be change if something from the old something can't be destroyed (erased) before the arrival of the new something. So, creating a new future can be interpreted as erasing something from the past and creating something in the future. Is it good? well if you think the old one is bad and the future is good, then it is a good change. Is it bad? well if you think the old one is good and the future is bad, then it's a bad change. So, the point is, "creating a new future", at least in my perspective, can mean muliple ways. It can't be only means good. And the way change can be intrepreted differently by people. Gaster may think it's good. But, is it good for other people involved? Did the change itself executed by force without the consent of other people or is it executed with consent? We may never know.
Then, Remember this. this Deltarune game is really associate everything with angel, angel here, angel there, angel may shine our way, etc. The religious theme is really strong here, unlike Undertale which just poke it a lil bit right and there. Don't you curious about the opposing force of The Angel? Where are they? Why is it always The Angel mentioned? Don't you think there won't be any devil around here? hiding? I thought that The Devil is literaly the force opposing God and try to manipulate people to following him and promising them with his own paradise, New World Order, "A new Future" aside from the God's rule. He thought he could create the world better than The God. Funny thing is I thought that the white dog that represent Toby ingame is the God of Undertale and Deltarune. Maybe gaster the devil annoyed by his disturbance and coded him "Annoying Dog" ingame lol.
If you noticed, if the player getting into the gaster file and encounter in Undertale sometimes get blocked by error message with the dog. Also, the room behind the piano. What's with those thing inside? Why the dog take it? In Deltarune, all of the error message by trying to breach the code appeared. Then, in CH2, we got hit by Dog's car. It's like The Dog supposedly The God trying to blocked the direct the connection between the player and gaster the devil. I guess no one talk about this point. Undertale and Deltarune seems like a battle between The God and The Devil to not let this deciding force that the player to make a terrible mistake
Oh HELL yeah, that ending is EXACTLY how I want Deltarune to end. That’s how I’ve been headcannoning I would act if the game really was a portal to another world for YEARS. I’m not sure if it’ll actually go there, but you make a very compelling case for it being a plausible ending
Probably the most compelling Deltarune prediction I've ever seen. I haven't come across a prediction that balances the evidence we have at the moment with a fulfilling narrative with strong themes of how we interact with fiction in a similar way to Undertale. Although Gaster may not be malicious, his possibly reductive treatment of the world of Deltarune as a mere experiment/game ultimately harms its residents.
I like to think of him like as benevolent mirror of Flowey, which is funny considering they both reached out to the playerbase before their respective games' releases via Twitter account hijacking. If Flowey represents the quintessential player who loses all emotional attachment to a game in order to feel as though they're above consequences, perhaps good ol' Wing Gaster represents the quintessential developer who only values whatever reaction their creations might garner from an audience without regard for how it may negatively affect the creation itself (or in DR's case, those inside of it)?
I've personally floated around some of the predictions present in this video in my mind palace for a while, but I've never never really found a way to connect them all, so it felt suuuper cathartic to watch a video where all of these loose thoughts were strung together so seamlessly. Oh, and that hint of what's essentially the only released version of Penumbra Phantasm's full composition playing in the background while you were describing the story's possible climax gave me chills.
It's almost like a double-edged sword. This mammoth of a video kind of checked every box I'd expect to be checked in the game's overarching narrative going forward but like? I kinda worry I'm never gonna see another Deltarune ending prediction as satisfying as this one LMAO
Love the way you've brought all these scattered details into one cohesive narrative! It was very entertaining to follow along with your theories and speculation.
I don't think you're out of line at all to look at the Halloween Hack for Deltarune parallels. I don't necessarily think it's some big 4D chess foreshadowing, but more as the Halloween Hack being Toby's first real attempt at communicating a theme, and now Deltarune is a more mature and skilled Toby taking another crack at a similar theme and doing it better than his younger self could.
A small channel, a 1,5 hour long video, Deltarune content. That will be 10 rewatches, thank you very much.
you cooked
Really great and certainly the most sound theory about deltarune’s overall story I’ve heard, but can I just say I really don’t get why everyone harps on about muh suspension of disbelief when it comes to the metanarrative when games like DDLC exist that absolutely knock it out of the park. If you can’t enjoy a story for such a benign reason that’s really on you and not the story itself.
I fucking love meta narratives, and just like you never understood why everyone is so ready to ditch a story the moment it goes meta.
@@frogmemo4153
I can understand it if the meta narrative is handled poorly.
But yeah, I just think meta narratives are such an interesting thing and they can add a lot of extra depth and meaning to story when used well.
I guess it's cuz being meta can kind of teeter between genuinely sweet and just annoyingly self indulgent
"WHOA guys look at how self aware I am about the fact that I'm a fictional character made by a person!!!"
Not to mention that in the case of Deltarune, it could easily fall into "How DARE you play the game!" if the player is actually mentioned directly and is seen as an antagonist/bad force
The reason why Undertale avoided this is because you were along for the ride. You controlled Frisk but anything you did YOU chose to do
If you kiII a beloved character for shallow gamer reasons you cannot be mad that the game makes you feel bad for it; the game promote that pacificism is good actually, that'd the whole point
And that's awesome! That's good actually
If anything Undertale was good at keeping the viewer's disbelief by making the meta tied to game mechanics being an actual plot thing
Saving and loading is an actual superpower in universe, "determination" is an actual substance in universe, lvl is "level of violence" (okay this one was kinda corny ngl)
Deltarune turning to the camera to talk about The Player would just be corny I'm sorry lol
(Also whilst DDLC is pretty cool it kinda makes the pre-meta parts of the game kinda worthless in hindsight. And since most people know about The Twist, they're basically just playing until they get to The Good Part)
My boyfriend for the longest time claimed he didn't want to play Undertale because 4th wall stuff breaks his immersion/suspension of disbelief.
Then he actually played the game and couldn't put it down. Went through the entire Pacifist route all day and night. I genuinely think a lot of people have to break through that mental barrier of worrying about Immersion. You can't predict beforehand what's gonna break your Immersion, that's only something you can judge after the fact.
@@pancakes8670 I typed a lengthy response but I realized it doesn't matter
Cuz at the end of the day immersion is a spectrum
Just like how your bf could get into it when he actually played the game, there are easily other players that just couldn't get into Undertale and what it was doing
It goes both ways
I agree with various observations and theories in this video, as they roughly align with my own expectations. I expect much of Deltarune to revolve around the Lightners finding solace from their struggles in the Light World in the Dark Worlds and feeling tempted to use them as escapism, yet ultimately coming to understand their inherent limitations and parting ways with them, while learning from the experiences they had within them to come to terms with the Light World and become better people. And the finale will then take this one step further by encouraging us to apply those same lessons to us and our relationship with Deltarune as a whole.
One notable complaint I have however is that despite using some information from the Weird Route, this video never really properly goes into it and what purpose it serves, even though it's clearly something major. I know you proposed the idea in your Angel's Hell video that it's actually the real conclusion to the game and something everyone is expected to do, and it feels to me like some parts of this video are leaning in that direction as well. But that's one thing I'm strongly confident in is wrong.
While this especially applies to the Weird Route, a lot of the secret content in Deltarune feels like it was very much designed to appeal to hardcore fans and not so much casual players, what with how it requires replaying the game while doing obscure things or with how much harder these secret boss fights are. Most of us probably love this stuff, but as hardcore fans, it's easy for us to forget that not everyone who plays Deltarune is like us. The full game will also be played by lots of people who'll have fun playing through it once, but won't want to replay it to hunt for secrets and experience much harder challenges that may not even be within their ability to beat. Clearly, Toby must want to please such people as well or else he wouldn't be making the core parts of it so fun and reasonably easy to just play through once. If he suddenly changed course at the end and demanded that they explore the game much more thoroughly and push themselves to their limit to get a proper conclusion, they'd feel betrayed. And so I have little doubt that whatever the ending of a normal playthrough of Deltarune will be will leave at least casual players satisfied with the experience and not feeling like there's something missing. I don't think it's going to pull the same thing as in Undertale, where the Genocide Route was a path you were discouraged from taking that represents a rejection of the game's themes, but perhaps the intention is that hardcore fans will take note of various loose ends and come to recognize that while they should eventually move on from Deltarune, there are still things left to be done first. Or maybe it's a mix, with some things like fighting the Shadow Crystal holders being encouraged extras, while things like the Weird Route are treated as taking things too far.
And on a minor note, while I realize this really isn't what the video is about, there is evidence that the one who can perform a true reset after finishing Undertale is indeed us and not Frisk, as Flowey's final speech literally asks us to let Frisk live their life, so he can't possibly be talking to Frisk here. Undertale is ultimately nowhere near as direct about our influence as Deltarune will likely be, but that's the one point where it unquestionably acknowledges it explicitly.
this is such a great 1½ hour video which I've already watched in under 20 minutes trust me bro
It took you 20 minutes? I finished it in 17 seconds
31:15 - Another fact to extend this is, due to Toriel's dialogue at the beginning of Chapter 2, we know that at some point during the night (where Kris pulled out their soul; end of Chapter 1) Kris must have eaten the entire pie that Toriel baked. So Toriel had to bake another one. Susie stayed over, in part, because of this process in order to help Toriel bake the pie.
Kris demonstrated future knowledge by eating the pie, forcing Susie to stay over later than intended (as well as a distraction for the opportunity to slash the tires!), adding to your theory's evidence pile.
I’m about 50 minutes in the video but I just had to write this since your theory and analysis (which I almost 100% agree with so far) reminded of some of my own thoughts.
So about the weird route. I very much always believed the weird route, by some twisted way may be the only way to get a “good” ending (aka save the world). If there is “one” ending the fate of the world is the to be consumed by the roaring, then since the only choice you can make in the game is the weird route it is logical to assume then the weird route breaks said fate, by it’s nature of it being portrayed as “breaking the game”. The weird route is very much tied into breaking the game, like “glitches” as to proceed on said route you must take advantage of Noelle who is tied with glitches and breaking games. In regular deltarune you cannot gain exp or grow stronger, yet in the weird route, while you still can’t, you do make Noelle grow stronger. I do not believe the weird route will branch out to “manipulating toriel to kill undyne” and such ideas as I believe it is very much tied to Noelle. The main reason I believe this may help save the world is that Kris, still proceeds with their plans and creates a dark fountain at the end of ch.2, even after seeing the events that happened there. So they may understand it’s necessary?
Also the common fan theory that Dess is the person stuck in code may mean that by exploring Noelle’s tendency to find glitches in the wooded route, we may be able to find her somehow?
This is ofc very speculative and undefined since I’m only really working with the pieces we have so far.
I always watch deltarune theories whenever i spot any new ones on my recommended but damn i didnt actually think there were any more like, meaningful contributions that people could make while talking about the lore cuz its been like idk 3 years since chapter 2 that we've been repeating the same things same arguments over and over so good job man
One thing I noticed: after the spamton fight shows that Kris thinks him being under our control is gonna last forever, when we have been controlling Kris for only two days, Someone being controlled for only two dayswould either be in Denial, Confusion and/or desperately fighting for control not surrendered to fatalism. Something clearly has been controling Kris before Us... And might still be there
That’s a really solid observation.
Them* 😐
@@allinory Sorry, my first language has no gender neutral pronouns
I think Kris has surrendered to fatalism before we got in due to how shitty their life is. Kris was already depressed, when we got control it was just another cruel joke by the world.
@@duckling3615 Maybe, but in this case I dont think they would be so affected by Spamton neo's thing
If you're only right about one thing, you're right about the player being the angel. That make 100% perfect sense.
Alternate theory: Deltarune has two Gasters.
Let me explain the idea. Sans, Papyrus, and Gaster are from Deltarune, until some event happens later in the game and the three suddenly… show up in Snowdin, as the rabbit shopkeeper tells us. Gaster is somewhat estranged from the two, somewhat explaining why Sans never brings him up in Deltarune and why the rabbit shopkeeper doesn’t either. Gaster has knowledge of the dark worlds, as a scientist, and because of both of these things, he breaks off from Sans and Paps and applies as the underground’s Head Scientist. However, this is only a means to an end, that end being getting back to Deltarune. Eventually, something works, sending Gaster back to Deltarune, but in the distant past. Gaster now has complete knowledge of what will happen in Deltarune (their “fate”) and uses this to his advantage, gaining enough power via some method to do things such as the survey program and other things he has been seen doing. Two Gasters could probably explain a lot, and while this theory is clearly VERY bare bones (pun intended), I could see someone like Spooky making a video out of this idea. Let me know what you guys think, I’d love some feedback
It would be quite ironic if Deltarune and Undertale was a Para-causal loop. Gaster knows, but he is unable to stop his fate. Repeating over and over again.
@@CalvinNoire Oooooh expansion idea, what if gaster is trying to break free from the loop by reaching out to us, and maybe even enter into our world? It would finally give him a motive, to free him from the loop that he knows he would be stuck in otherwise.
It would also explain the weird Love Letter that everyone thought was Gaster. Theres another one. Be funny if the Deltarune Gaster is the evil one, and our Gaster from Undertale is the good one trying to subvert his evil counterpart lmao.
@@pancakes8670I honestly would like to see gaster as more of a grey character, who's actions are both evil and good and who's motives are controversial and complex rather that" mad scientist" and "good scientist"
@@CalvinNoire
He can’t stop his fate alone*
He needs our determination to break the loop.
The only diagnosis deltarune has is autism.
Source: me (I am autism)
You are infected with being on the spectrum 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@ramhthewatermelon but I am proud for being infected with gay☺️
Real
it appears i hath spotted thy, sullivan, in my reckless surfing of the comment section
@@Average_Moldovan_User 🤯🤯🤯
Undertale doesn't blame Frisk. Flowey literally tells us to 'let Frisk live their life.'
He does say Chara at the end but... something doesn't sit right with me. Chara is already shown to be seperate from us, and they even call themselves 'Chara' with quotation marks. It's odd.
I think your meant to be that first human. Chara is in reference to the sprites of all human characters in the files. Toby probably assumed most people would put their real name so it’s meant to talk to you.
@Steakknifejr_Jorpele He did most likely assume people would put their own name. However, with Chara being the "true name," it adds implications that what we thought to be true (we are frisk and then we are the first human) isn't true. Chara has a name, and it isn't ours. They are their own person who we don't even control.
I dunno why no one ever talks about the prophecy... "When the earth draws her final breath. Only then. On the edge of the horizon. 3 heroes will arrive"
Yea it's so interesting how it's implied that only when there's literally the end of the world that prophesy comes true
Barney, Niko, and Kris-chan
@@wildfire9280oh no
I found every Bill Murray already but i refuse to say where they are or prove it in any way
It has been ten minutes.
@@SullyTheLightnerd yea I'm quick wit it
you know how the second voice in the survey program speaks in a very similar manner to Chara which made people think it is Chara? well guess who's in Chara's role in this universe and had studied summoning demons?
there's a very real chance Kris made the player possess them as part of their plan, because it's very clear they have more control over the situation than we're lead to believe.
I'm so annoyed that I didn't do my 'literary analysis' playthrough of deltarune because you literally nailed ALL of the things I was going to say in the way I wanted to do it lol
Down to the apple symbolism! I'm watching through death note right now and was thinking about the apple symbolism in other things. and was probably close to making the connection for it in deltarune where it is rather undiscussed for such a seemingly significant symbol, and yet you beat me to it!
But to be honest I probably wouldn't have done the playthrough, despite all the things I could've tried to piece out or maybe still could. Idk procrastination ftw I guess :D
Seriously amazing video, having something mapped out in this manner is so much more clear than anything I think anyone else has put out. Would make my literature teacher proud, if they had any context about deltarune at all lol
"Woody stops being an ass" Lmao
Friend inside me!
As the years go by I will never die!
I think it's worth mentioning that toby has mentioned being inspired by moon remix rpg adventure when making undertale, and (spoilers for moon by the way) the good ending of that game is VERY similar to the ending you described here, where in order to save everyone we must stop playing the game so that they can live lives not determined by the games code (or something along those lines iirc, its a bit confusing)
Deltarune's simple. There's only one ending. When you die and don't press continue, the world gets covered in darkness, which is an ending. The ending of deltarune is the world getting covered in darkness. Toby even said the most important thing wasn't the ending, but what happened before, which is to help us cope with the fact the world will be covered in darkness
1:19:57
It's also true in real life. We don't really choose who we are, do we?
We just do things based on preset data from our DNA and how we grew up.
29:50 akshualee apple isn't a forbidden fruit in the actual bible. Forbidden fruit become represented by apple in pop culture fairly recently
Did you know you can just say you don't agree to everything that happens from now on?
Like it just lets you play the game
The biggest discrepancy with Kris knight theories is that chapter 2 could not have happened if Kris was the knight. The fountain was opened while Noelle and Berdly were actively studying, which was at the same time we were controlling Kris somewhere else.
spookydood already adressed this
It was not opened while Noelle and Berdly were studying. Their books are closed and haphazardly dropped on the table (as if they were, yknow, dropped, which they likely were considering neither Noelle or Berdly have bags, they just carry everything with them in their arms). They're literally on their knees in the light world slumped over the table.
If the fountain was opened while they were studying, not only would they have seen the Knight and thus know who it was, but they would have bolted out of the room. We see a fountain get opened. It is loud and bright. It takes like a full minute for the fountain to fill a room with extremely dark smoke.
Items that Lightners take with them do not become darkners, but items (with the exception of items that are already darkners) instead. The books would have most likely become darkners if they were in the room when the fountain was opened. Instead, they (most likely) become part of Berdly's attacks.
They most likely fell in the same way Kris and Susie did in chapter 1. They walk into a pitch black room, the door shuts behind them, and they fall in.
Susie, in chapter 1, even has the same reaction upon the fountain being sealed that Berdly and Noelle do. She questions if it was real, and Noelle/Berdly had people actively tell them it was a dream and so blindly believe it.
SCC imply a sizeable amount of time has passed since the fountain's creation. It was made in the middle of the night.
And this is ignoring the most huge point.
Literally, all other evidence points to (SOULless) Kris.
The knife they take out at the end of chapter 1&2 is the same design Queen shows making the fountain, THE EXACT SAME ONE. THE FOUNTAIN BEING CREATED WAS RECORDED. It's a specific blade with a hilt.
They slept all day through class in the morning of chapter 2. Alphys and Susie even note it as unusual. Its as if their body didn't get enough sleep, no?
The fact that they planned chapter 3's fountain a full day in advance. Eating the pie got susie to stay over and also gave them time to remove the SOUL and cause chaos, plugging in the TV was required for chapter 3's fountain to be created.
@@evilness3404you mean the TV was needed so Susie and Noelle would fall asleep in the living room? Or do you mean it was necessary to matrrialize Tenna or whatever smilled from the TV?
@pedroivog.s.6870 Soulless Kris inbetween chapters 1 and 2 plugged in the TV. They turn on the TV at the end of chapter 2, and we know Chapter 3 will be TV themed due to this, along with Tenna (most likely being the TV itself) as the boss darkner of the world (similar to how Queen was set up in chapter 2, as the laptop.)
We also know they didn't watch TV during the night of chapter 1, as the TV remote is still stuck in the couch cushions, and both it and the TV are dusty.
Not necessarily. When Kris and Susie first enter the Dark World in Chapter 1, there is like a minute or so it takes for it to actually materialize, in which the two are just fumbling around in the dark.
Noelle and Berdly probably fumbled around for a bit before falling into the Dark World. Plus, characters can end up in different locations than they started. Ch1 Kris and Susie first enter the Dark World through the supply closet, and leave in the abandoned classroom.
The real deltarune is the friends we made along the way
My current theory(I'm a believer in the theory that the knight isnt a singular person just a role someone can take on(for example I think Kris is opening the dark fountains because inside the dark worlds he can survive without your presence with us removed and Him fully in control of himself and not struggling just to walk) is that Noelle is going to cause the roaring and specifically the angels heaven is her Dark fountain Opened in the Hospital room in a either just after her farther dies or to try and keep him alive just a little longer to create a paradise causing the roaring
And regarding the actual theory that Gasters Manipulating us I think it's multi layered.
Specifically I don't think the weird route is us escaping Gasters control.
In the normal route we go through with his plan and the world is saved but at a cost we now knowing that his plan has a cost go back and try to change it via the weird routes Unaware that this divergence is also part of his plan Because we are still under the contract that Gives our power to determine fate to him, What we Think are Holes or Exploits are in Reality a finely crafted gap intended for Us to eventually find because with us completing the main path we fullfill the prophecy and are left disappointed manipulating our own investment to make us want more to break out of his design into our own only to double down and reveal that this to is just another layer of his plans,
Ultimately I get the feeling we will get 3 routes or at least 2, but ultimately end up the same way you have a choice but it's ultimately meaningless.
1 the normal route we do everything and the world is saved and his first plan comes to fruition motivating us to try and change it (maybe to stop the roaring we have to do something like kill Noelle if something like her stabbing herself to make the angels heaven ends up happening)
2 weird route, we find the carefully placed holes in the base route that make us stronger but it ultimately doesn't stop the roaring from occurring even if we stop Noelle from making the final dark world that triggers the roaring but we are at least able to make a potential that we don't get to see the fruits of, we make a potential for a new future but we don't get to see it and the world ends on the same note ultimately the characters just end up a bit stronger More Ready to face the future rather then apprehensive towards it and I believe that this is what fulfills what he wants because what he wants is by all measures a miracle an impossibility within the standard course of events no matter how things would naturally branch if the characters had their natural free will what he wants isn't possible under normal circumstances and the normal route is supposed to motivate Us To Create that condition to break the constraints of logic that would normally operate the world not treating it as something real but as a game, a wall to be broken through enemies to be beaten to get stronger not just forced to flee or befriended even our choice to go off the path he highlighted is a part of his plan because even these steps are predetermined.
Ultimately this extra strength causes light and dark to blend, and Gaster to be able to escape the depths by leveraging our strength our will to break away from "Fate" A Marvelous power indeed a Very Very Interesting will, So Fervently opposed to the clear path I layed out but I must thank you for if your will wasn't this bright then I wouldn't be here right now but I won't be fighting you as I have other experiments to attend to, and he walks off as the game ends the same as the normal route even if some people died earlier.(Ultimately He needed to Nurture our Will our desire to Break away from fate as we already agreed to everything that will happen to us from now on so even us breaking out of his plan is just another layer of his plan)
3rd route Dissatisfaction, I believe that this route needs to go Beyond just just the obvious exploits we need to find a way to break the game completely (wrong warp/time travel Glitches) and we need to go into some type of flashback scene but as an active character (specifically a flashback to a day 0(or maybe Kris entering the bunker originally) from the end of a weird route file where we're already glitched the sequences of events in the small scale.
And with all the power from the weird route and the fact that we've gone from chapter 7 back to pre chapter one through the complete exploitation of the game if your theory about the devil in the bunker being a gaster fragment is right then we are able to fight them with our full strength party of characters that have all broken the world's limits but ultimately this is where his cruelest trick is played as because we've had to literally sequence break time in order to get to him and fight him we've ultimately either caused Kris to enter the bunker with our fight Bootstrapping the timeline or this fight changes nothing in the end as and the only reason he even accepts the challenge is to answer our desire to find him ultimately being just as much an enigma as when we started with the game either Resetting to chapter ones intro/gonermaker sequence after we beat him (I think this should be what happens if we lose) or we simply trigger the same final cutscene of the Normal route.
Apples are commonly used to represent the fruit of the tree of good and evil, but I don’t think we actually have any idea of what the fruit really was. Except that it grew in the middle of the garden, next to a second tree that was called the tree of life. And that it was a tree born fruit, rather than a vine born one, so it’s not a grape or watermelon, or coconut, cause it’s hard to bite into a coconut. I guess if you really had to know, you could try and track what the climate would have been at the time, and it gives a bunch of rivers that were supposedly in the area, so like any rivers that seem similar I guess. Though we also don’t really know where the place was exactly, just a general area. Think them being related to apples comes from apple of my eye; A bastardization of aperture of my eye. Or perhaps the mythological connection between apples and knowledge. Unless that was born out of apples supposed relation to the fruit of good and evil.
Actually it's because "apple" in Latin is spelled with the same letters as "evil".
I'm serious.
Naw its because apple was once a catchall term for a range of fruits
IS THAT B3313 MUSIC I HEAR AROUND 47:45 OR AM I INSANE
awesome video btw, helped me realize who Kris is a lot better :D
This is, and no joke, the best deltarune theory video I've seen so far, and thats a lot coming from someone who has seen hundreds of hours of them. You bring up so many points that I had never seen anyone talk about but they make so much sense, the whole apple = kris = Edenn apple allegory, kris studying the ocult and having found the demon and made a pact, that sounds so far off from everything I have ever heard but it makes so much sense. This whole video has shed a completely new light on kris' actions and deltarune as whole for me. Thank you.
Nice. I liked the reflection on the chapter releases at the beginning, and your thoughts on the game's themes. I enjoy our control over Kris as a metaphor for their lack of control in their own life, or at least their perceived lack of control. Kooki Autumn made a good video recently that interrogates that side of Kris.
Not sure I totally buy the argument that when Deltarune refers to "you" and "your power", that it's referring to the player. Undertale's "you" was very ambiguous, which seemed to connect to the game's exploration of identity. Deltarune looks to be tackling the same theme, so I'd be surprised if the player was unequivocally "you".
Just got this recommended to me with "Gaster" and "Deltarune theory" in the title.
Grabbing a snack for this one, and I am seated.
I've never liked the idea that because Deltarune has a linear narrative it's choices don't matter, which somehow simultaneously exists with the idea that Undertale is a game where choices do matter, as if both games are not fundamentally about walking in a straight line towards an objective and getting different flavor text along the way. If you want to be really super pedantic every single run of Undertale is walking straight towards the barrier and then escaping the underground, the endings are just flavor text. Maybe you fight a different boss, maybe you get an extra cut scene, maybe some characters are nicer or meaner to you, but fundamentally the objective doesn't change. If we are supposed to accept that as the argument for how choices don't matter in Deltarune, how does it not apply to Undertale? Surely Undertale is a game where your choices don't matter because you are stuck trudging along the set path before you. It doesn't seem that different to me in content if you are willing to be that reductive. Is the significance just because in Undertale someone tells us our choices do matter and in Deltarune someone tells us they don't?
good video I liked it
I guess the difference is that in undertale you can affect what the outcome of the game is. Being able to choose which monsters to kill is still a choice even if the endings are just as scripted. But in deltarune if you aren't satisfied with the ending, presumably you won't be able to do anything else
@@massiveidiot77 I mean I get that but that's also my point when I'm talking about how you always escape the underground. Undertale has exactly one outcome, the player escapes the Underground. There is no ending in which this does not occur. If you are not satisfied with that ending, there's nothing you can do. There is no ending to stay in the ruins with Toriel, there is no ending to stay in New Home with Asgore. Both of those are pretty natural alternative endings (unless you consider turning the game off an ending). A pretty large number of people were unsatisfied with not being able to do anything to truly save Asriel even in the most ideal possible ending and that inspired a good number of fan works, etc etc.
And as far as sparing or killing goes, even putting aside the weird route, is it really that materially different if we are recruiting someone to our town or not in comparison? Either this character gets to continue existing in the narrative or they do not. If killing in Undertale is significant because it loses access to content (ranging from full major events to minor fluff), that seems to be just as true in Deltarune with the recruits system. If anything, Deltarune is far more reactive to the player's decisions than Undertale was this early in the game.
Even if Deltarune is going to somehow have a singular uniform ending, are we not supposed to understand that an ending where everybody hates us because we pushed away and hurt everyone to be different from an ending where everybody loves us because we befriended and impressed everyone? Those are two different endings, even if they lead to the same boss fight. We have a mechanism to upset people in Deltarune, we've seen it in action at the end of chapters 1 and 2 already. It's how we resolved the battles. Again, even ignoring the weird route this is true.
Obviously Undertale IS a game that gives you meaningful choices, I just don't understand how Deltarune is supposed to be failing to give us choice when it's doing basically the exact same stuff as Undertale and then some.
Ive always read "your choices dont matter" to be implying that the outcome for the world will be the same either way. Undertale spends a ton of time building the concept that it is genuinely meaningful in what state you leave the world after you stop playing, it asks you to step past that fourth wall. The suggested thesis that deltarune will argue for and probably more importantly against i always read as something more linear.
Technically, there's exactly one ending in Undertale that doesn't end with Frisk escaping the Underground; Genocide. Genocide ends with the Player and Demon Chara destroying the world. We never even get to see what happens to Frisk. I still love your analysis, though!
@@kingofcrap4414 true, I would say it depends how you want to think about it. Depending on how you want to play devils advocate, we could easily say that we do succeed in escaping the underground in Geno because we have destroyed it (and everything else). Clearly when we are floating in the void with Chara we are no longer in the underground. Mission success, as an added bonus we even destroyed the barrier (as part of everything).
We could also give an allowance to Geno as being essentially the weird route of Undertale. It's not a terribly uncommon take to see people say "Deltarune is only going to have one ending, except for weird route shenanigans that break the game". We could make the same case for Undertale's Geno too if we really wanted to, it isn't even a stretch to call the two very similar.
Great theory! This is probably the first video I've seen that acknowledges that the Prophecy predicts that the Angel will be banished only after the Roaring begins. Also, it's really clear what Toby meant when he said that a game really really similar to Deltarune would come out, at least according to your video. Kris possibly being guilty over Dess, their escapism and reluctance to move on are really similar to a certain indie JRPG silent protagonist lol.
yoooo another video! can't wait for more existential dread because of Deltarune's plot!
bill murrays i found (updating this as i see them in a draft and then posting it, hopefully i dont miss any)
0:00
0:45
in the moon around 2:00
13:08
20:56
23:40
32:41
35:58
50:44
55:01 (tiny top right corner)
amazing video by the way i adore kris, deltarune's metanarrative shenannigans, and all these little deltarune guys so much so i really enjoyed this video, touched on a LOT of the stuff i think about deltarune
i also feel like one point to bring up about the whole fate thing and choices not mattering, is i think it's kind of like real life
you cannot choose how your choices will end up affecting the future, but you can choose how they will affect the moment and the people around you, life will always have surprise factors that you cannot control, but you can use your actions to try to affect other people's emotions, even if the ending is the same, toby fox said in the deltarune faq that "There's something more important than reaching the end." and i feel like maybe that could be the thing, but thats just my theory
again, great video! had fun looking for bill murray, if i found them all i feel very glad but im pretty sure i missed some lol this is alot less than 14
spookydood you are NOT the smartest person on the face of the earth, you are always WRONG and you have never been right in your entire life
50:44
@@Direpompano i will add this to the pile thank you
23:40
@@KaledS23 amazing, added thank you
It’s pretty late where i live but it’s never too late for a spookydood vid!
The way I see it, Deltarune is a story about fate, and defying it. I will preface this by saying that the idea largely relies on the assumption that Kris IS the Knight, but it creates an extremely satisfying narrative if so, so hear me out even if you disagree.
The way I see it, we and Kris are something of a symbiotic relationship, and no, not just because Kris has a zombie-like walk without the soul. See, every dark fountain has been created in specific locations with specific people attending them such that the adventures they would go on would improve Kris' relationship with others. Susie went from the violent bully to a close friend, Noelle was taught to be strong and stand up to her mother, Berdly to stop being so full of himself. But where is Chapter 3's fountain? Right in the middle of Kris' living room, with Toriel, ground zero for Kris' relationship with her and Asriel, and possibly to bring up conversations about Asgore.
So, Kris is using the fountains to improve their life, which MUST be done since as we established in the opening scene of the game, "Nobody can choose who they are in this world". But, what if we made a NEW world? A DARK world? Well perhaps then things can be different. However, Kris wouldn't dare risk destroying the world for that, would they? Of course not. And Kris doesn't need to- because WE are here. The soul, the one thing that floats up out of Kris' body and closes the dark fountains. Kris is USING the soul, is using US to change their own life, and set us aside when our influence can't be allowed to change things.
However, Kris isn't the only one who can defy fate thanks to the dark worlds- WE can defy the plan KRIS set out for us, such as with the Weird Route. By trying to do things SO FAR outside the path Kris carefully constructed for us, instead of changing their life for the better, we can make everything significantly worse. Kris and us are both symbiotic, and at constant war, trying to defy a fate we were told we would meet. We both want to be free of restrictions set by others, and being free requires us to take the freedom of others. Ultimately, Kris and us both serve the role of the secret bosses in each chapter.
Ooooooooo, this is the coolest Kris Knight theory I've ever heard!
@@kingofcrap4414 Thanks! I didn't used to support Kris Knight theory, but after thinking about it in terms of Deltarune's theme around freedom, it is easily the most narratively satisfying explanation. The idea of making some rando like Papyrus be the knight ultimately feels jarring after spending 3+ chapters building up the question over who it could be and THEN trying to justify purpose in their actions, when in reality the PURPOSE of their actions gives us the best candidates for the answer all along.
Ultimately the question you need to answer is this; do we have reason to believe The Knight is inherently "evil"? After all, every dark world reflects the will of those who created it, and Queen isn't evil. Lancer isn't evil. Even King is only on the fence at best at this point, but Queen makes it clear that she doesn't actually know WHY she wants to open more dark fountains, only that The Knight did so, and it granted them the power to "create a new world- a better world". So while I can SEE another character being The Knight if done right, I think the most narratively satisfying explanation is this.
Kris walks unnaturally without being controlled, the darkners cease to exist without being perceived when fountains are sealed.
@@wildfire9280 ummm... okay? You're going to need to elaborate on what exactly you're saying, you just gave me two 5 word bullet points worth of text in response to multiple paragraphs, it's hard for me to tell what you're even saying it TO, let alone what it means in that context
48:25 Good point but just feel like mentioning that that line is scrapped and actually not used in game, also, what line is it you mentioned that has clover referencing an angel? I havent found it around
good theory imo
i want talk about ralsie titan theory its has 0 evidence against it and one major and two minor pieces of evidence for it
1: in the power menu his Description is Dark-World being. Not darkner but Dark-World being and if its literal what are titans but beings made of Dark-Worlds
2: he never calls himself a darkner. The one time you can say he dose is right after the lancer and susie fight but he backpedals
:3 THE ROARING that ralsie talks about in the end of ch2 is NOT part of the Prophecy well yes
THE ROARING is mentioned in Prophecy THE ROARING that ralsie talks about in the end of ch2 is something that only he knows, since card kingdom darkners know about the Prophecy (evidence seam and chaos king) but not THE ROARING so why would ralsie know about THE ROARING because hes a titan
do you like my theory?
There's a scene in Chapter One where Ralsei says to Lancer something along the lines of, "Our purpose... The Darkners' purpose... is to serve the Lightners and make them happy." Clearly referring to both himself and Lancer as Darkners in that sentence. So no, I think Ralsei is a Darkner.
This was a lot better put together than the similarly named Angel's Hell, for sure. I appreciate actually trying to explain WHY Gaster would be a villain, because in your previous videos it did feel like the only reason given was because you wanted him to be, and I feel like the other theorists who believe he's a villain don't even try to explain why. I'd like to offer my usual critique, which is that you need to be more confident! This entire video you're presenting a decently reasonable series of conclusions as if it's nonsense crack theory, and begging the audience to hear you out as if they'll click off the video at any minute. The Halloween Hack certainly isn't a crazy correlation, the similarities between the two were being pointed out all the way back when Chapter 1 came out. Your conclusions are really solid, the broad strokes used to get there are mostly solid, and I think you need to put more faith in yourself to present those ideas knowing your audience will listen to you.
Also like why is Skraty the only stock footage you have. I've never even heard of Skraty outside of your videos. What even is this. Skraty lore video when. That's a joke but I'd watch it.
Achievement: I read allat
Nah nah theories do have a good reason for evil Gaster, the fact that he’s LITERALLY accsociated with the number 666 alone is enough to show that he might not be so good, + his own followers admit to straight up fearing just mentioning his name, and the river person tells us to BEWARE the man who speaks in hands, entry number 17 is very dark & creepy, and when asked about the Gaster secrets in game on twitter Toby replies saying that the mysteries are ‘shrouded in darkness’ & don’t look too far or else you’ll despair…
@@jollyjadentnt7963 I mean sure, but the river person also says to beware the man that comes from the other world, and if we're all assuming that's sans all that means is "he's a good guy but really strong so be nice kid". Could mean a lot of things in Gaster's case. Considering Undertale and Deltarune put us against an angel in some sense or another, it's not out of the realm of possibility for a 666 devil to be a good guy. You could argue he's been quite cordial and kind in helping us save the world, and while that may be a deceit, it also may not be. There's plenty of evidence for gaster being evil to bring up and counter evidence to consider, but whenever I see theories hinging on Gaster being evil they don't even stop to explain why, which is kind of weird considering how much Deltarune Theorists love repeating stuff everybody already knows.
"Well we can't go too wild with the speculation, but it is worth noting that biblically..." is such a funny soundbite.
Post the 3 hour cut anyway- I’d watch it in the background
How dare you spookydude, making me even MORE excited for the next chapters>:(
29:54 actually this is a myth, the forbidden fruit is never named in the bible, it was just called a fruit. Its possible it was supposed to be an apple but unlikely, in pop culture representing this mysterious fruit as an apple has become popular but its not biblical. You could have simply added the addendum "in popular culture" to fix this issue.
The point is that the type of fruit is irrelevant as it simply represents adam and eve disobeying god’s will which is all part of a metafore about the judgment of man being flawed and needing to trust god to distinguish right from wrong (basically there is no specific fruit as it is useless to the metaphor and it isn’t meant to exist in the real world in the first place or eating it would be a sin) but yeah glad to have found another UHM ACTUALLY enjoyer I think it’s actually* cool to share fun facts and knowledge like this
@@HhHHhKHKhhh well they specifically linked the apple to the metaphor by pointing out how kris is linked to apples
Does it _really_ matter though?
Myths evolve.
@@TheSkyGuy77 well there are alot of people that care about the bible lol
@@TheSkyGuy77 well myths evolved mainly when they were spread with words while the bible is written + many people with a catholic education or who studied the bible know it, it’s not like people forgot about it it’s just overshadowed by the pop culture
Bill Murray is the final secret boss
The movie Groundhog Day is compared to the time loop of saving and loading for Kris
As the years go by, i will never die
What I like to imagine is that G*ster is going to do something similar to Bill Cipher in Gravity falls *SPOILER FOR GRAVITY FALLS*
Where he traps probably Noelle in a fantasy bubbel that is a complete paradise in order to make sure she dosen't get in his way
Ice Palace???
The story is getting darker, yet darker
Friend Inside Me
1:09:20
Amazing move to use Inscryption's legend song of the 4 scrybes instead of the Delatrune's one, that felt so fitting but so weird. It is a similar sequence, that now I wonder if Daniel Mullins was inspired by undertale for that cutscene.
‘There’s a player… playing me?’📄 🔥✍️
Ok so around 31 minutes in I’m GLAD I’m not the only one who thought Kris was the one who opened the dark world in Chapter 2, like it takes a lot of illogical steps for the knight to somehow open the dark world while Berdly & Noelle are there (without commenting or noticing it???) it feels much more logical that Kris used the knife at chapter 1 to open the cyber world dark fountain! And the image that Queen used to describe the knight’s dark fountain opening was *literally a knife*, and at this point Kris is heavily accsociated with knives, it feels like a huge chekovs gun or writing move to have Kris be the knight with all that’s been hinted.
But that would mean no one went to the library, to the computer room, before Berdly and Noelle, which seems a little weird.
@@PrivateDaisyThe Internet is down, why would anyone go use the computers, the only reason Noelle and Berdly do go there is to study
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 what about the librarian? Ms Boom?
@@PrivateDaisy Toby Forgor or something idfk, it's just a very flimsy point against KrisKnight
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 I don't know, man, it sounds important to me. But you've got a point about the lack of internet.
This video was so refreshing to watch! I love seeing new ideas/theories about deltarune, though I admit, I don’t know where tf the demon stuff came from, (I havent played in over a year) but listening to this newer kind of perspective or I suppose a more broad interpretation of the game, I’m now so excited for the upcoming chapters :)
I get you... There hasn't been anything new for Deltarune in years and by now all sensible ideas and interpretations have been done multiple times over.
We went way beyond crack theories, too, years ago.
Talking about Deltarune often feels like running in circles, knowing that it is often a wasted effort, because it oh so often boils down to "We only have 2 chapters, thats not enough for many topics".
And that stuff just burns out. Scraping for everything possibly interesting, searching for clues and ideas that are new and not completly made out of conjecture. It drains.
The Japanese translation has the character who interrupts Gaster talk in the same (very particular) manner as Chara, which implies that they’re Chara, or possibly Kris if they *are* just the alternate universe version of Chara. Which doesn’t necessarily contradict anything else in the video! But it could imply that Kris is already trying to resist Gaster’s plan.
18:17
I believe the Ending of the Genocide rout, with Chara talking about "You" is its own form of telling the player its aware of its existenge.
1:08:20 I remember that when I first played the Earthbound Halloween Hack in 2022, I pretty much immediately started noticing the similarities between it and Undertale/Deltarune. The Halloween Hack carries many of the ideas that Toby later used to create his own games. I genuinely think that analysing it helps in understanding Undertale and Deltarune, both in story and in themes. I find the fact that Varik looks shockingly similar to Kris to be especially interesting, and I don't think the similarities there are accidental.
Hello, Spookydood, this was an informative video and a fun watch. I only caught the first Bill Murray, but I hope others found him. Have you considered Xiaoshi Knight?
I think this video has me fall further in love with Deltarune and we’re only two chapters in. I hope things turn out well: for you, me, and the people in Deltarune.
Really good theory overall I don't agree with every point but I agreed with the theory more then I disagreed. great video
43:13 Hearing Katana Zero music when you brought up Gaster caught me so off guard, but also got a chuckle out of me.
i’m curious how you feel about the “7 Days, 7 Knights” theory where there is no singular “Knight” but instead 7 people who each have opened/will open a Dark World.
I see you too are a fan of SPM (Super Paper Mario), judging by the music used in the video.
This theory encompasses everything I think. It is as little speculative as possible, with broad predictions given what we already have so early in this game. It has a little of Angel's Hell, Jaru's reset theory, the Device Theory (up until the 2nd video), etc. It even wraps all up saying Deltarune as an expansion of the themes in Undertale (where by reseting to see all endings the player is trapping these characters forever in the undergound, never letting them live a happy ending in True Pacifist, and dooming them even more in Genocide).
Also 1:18:22
"I'm SOO hot"
-Spookydood
This video is pretty well done, decent media literacy, decent editing and some interesting ideas, it does have some points I disagree but that’s fine.
Though there is one thing that is gnawing at me while I was watching the video and that is the interpretation of the weird/snow-grave route.
In your video your talking about Gaster is controlling fate and is pulling our strings and one best thing to do In The game is to defy Gaster by defying fate and by doing that it will help us get our proper ending ( at least that’s what am getting from the video pls correct me if I wrong) and you point to the weird/snow-grave route as way to defy fate
but the thing that is confusing and gnawing at me is that. Isn’t the Weird/Snow-grave route a bad thing, like to do route you have to essentially bully Noelle and make her do things she doesn’t want to do and make her worser person and the route ends with Berdly dead (or unconscious we don’t know but definitely not OK) and the story it self keeps saying going with this route is a bad thing just as the story is telling that most likely Kris is the Knight.
So what I’m asking do you have any answers about if story truly about defy fate then why would one of the only ways to do it is to bully and potentially murder.
Tdlr do you have any to say about the weird route and how it seems to make things worse in the narrative and not better if it’s the right thing to do?
(This is a REALLY long comment, my apologies. You kinda inspired a "figured everything out" moment in me.)
I like this theory because it lines up fairly well with the actual Delta Rune symbol. If you changed the orb to the SOUL, then it looks like a depiction of the final battle - two upwards triangles (the Lightners Noelle and Susie) and a downwards triangle (the Darkner Ralsei) vs. the Angel (Kris, or rather, vs. our possession of Kris.)
However, some other theories make the case for Noelle as the Angel, and I think this fits slightly better because you don't need to change the symbol at all. We've seen the Delta Rune symbol be *color coded* , like at 43:06. Those colors line up exactly with Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. Noelle would be a yellow triangle, which isn't part of the pattern. As for how the "Angel" part of the Delta Rune can be white if it's Noelle...
1. Noelle is the character most closely associated with angelic imagery, is ostensibly referred to as an angel by Spamton, and *her and her family's names* are references to Christmas. Christianity has obvious connection to angels, and where do we see a Light World depiction of the "Angel" in the Delta Rune? The church's steeple.
2. It could be argued that Noelle has an even stronger desire to escape her reality than Kris does. Kris doesn't want to be a human, likely doesn't have memories of their bio parents due to asking when their horns would grow in, potentially has a rift with Asriel (though I think Kris loves and misses him, or who he used to be when they were kids, more on that later) who is away at university, but has two loving adoptive parents, despite their divorce meaning they don't really get along with each other. OTOH, Noelle's mother is implied to be unloving or neglectful because of her duties as mayor (and has been literally out of the picture so far), her father is dying, and her sister is missing (possibly even presumed dead by Noelle, though she probably can't face it).
3. There's good evidence for imagination/belief being the strongest force in Dark Worlds. Wanting something bad enough, or believing it forcefully enough, seems to be the easiest way to make things happen that shouldn't. We have a little bit of influence over Kris's choices, but when we push Noelle hard enough to cast a spell she doesn't even know, she *does it anyway* , and it's powerful enough to maim or potentially even kill another Lightner (we don't know yet whether Berdly is okay). I think it's clear that Noelle has more sheer power ("May the Angel's power light your way.") than any of the other main characters we've seen so far. With her powers of ice, that makes her... a *snow angel.*
Conclusions and my personal predictions:
So I think that explains why the Angel's portion of the Delta Rune is snow colored. Noelle has horrid things coming at her from all angles in reality, and she finally discovers the escapism of the Dark Worlds through Kris and Susie. Her emotional state being what it is, she gets addicted to the escapism, and after gaining enough confidence in her abilities, I think she'll be the one to bring about the Roaring by opening one or more layers of additional Dark Fountains already inside a Dark World.
In fact, I think the strength and qualities of the Dark Fountain itself are determined by the degree of imagination/belief from the creator. She will succeed in completely escaping reality, and will seal herself into a perfect, fake, sterile, white fantasy world of her own creation that she refuses to leave, probably making herself a Mary-Sue in that world in the process. Angelic, anesthetizing light borne of darkness; the "Angel's Heaven". At the same time, I think those three elements of her fears (mother, father, sister) will, completely disconnected from her, be transformed by the Fountain she Made, and become the Titans. That big central horned Titan represents the fear of Rudy dying, and the two slimmer, more feminine-coded Titans represent December and Noelle's mother being lost to her. I'd like to note that all three of the Titans are shown being horned, which makes sense if they're her family, because they have antlers.
I believe the strength of Noelle's will is going to animate the Titans so thoroughly that they will actually take control of the Dark World which encloses the Angel's Heaven (originally created by Kris or Susie), trapping them within. The Lightners will be left to fend for themselves. The Darkners will "turn to stone" for the same reason Lancer does in Ch.2, which is that they are now in a Dark World whose will is different than the will which created them. (It's been said that the *creator* is what matters, but while mostly accurate I think it's a misdirection, because it'll turn out that you can usurp a Dark World after it's been created with enough willpower.) The reason Ralsei is an exception to this is that he's the horned headband Kris carries around, and is animated directly by Kris's strong love for his childhood with Asriel. This also agrees with Kris being the Knight, and means that *Kris* created the fountain where we first encounter Ralsei, shortly prior to our appearance within the story and the SOUL. Ralsei is the "prince" of the dark, *and Kris is his Knight* . Kris is a "Leader", but *commands* the party. A "Knight Commander" is a high-ranking title bestowed to knights who were often chosen to serve as military advisors to lords, kings, and other high-ranking nobles... such as a Prince. I think the lyrics to "Don't Forget" will turn out to have been said by Asriel to Kris just before he left for university.
The orb in the Delta Rune represents the Angel's Heaven, literally enclosing Noelle. The wings in the Delta Rune represent Noelle's Fountain, giving life to the Titans and maintaining the Roaring. To restore balance and to save the (Dark) world, Kris, Susie, and Ralsei need to banish the Angel's Heaven. They must directly destroy Noelle's stagnant fantasy, becoming agents of *change* (that's where delta comes in). The battle literally takes place "AT WORLDS' EDGE", plural, because they are right at the border between Noelle's world and the Dark World which is now the Titans'. The prophecy will take place, no matter what. There will be "only one ending", but with the particulars differing. In the normal route, Noelle doesn't survive the final battle. (Her body might literally survive, but her SOUL will be lost. She'll go comatose or lose her sanity completely, and end up having to be committed.) In the Weird Route, at the cost of the player having to intentionally inflict trauma on her, and themselves in the process, I think she will have become more resilient, and have a sense of self just strong enough to survive and be SAVEd. A Pyrrhic victory. Either way, Kris and Susie are able to achieve balance for themselves between escapism and reality, move on with their lives, and grow into adulthood. But it won't be a happy ending either way. Bittersweet at best.
A footnote: I think the movie Miracle on 34th Street might end up being oddly relevant or inspiratory to Deltarune. Noelle's mother, who has "no charisma and an icy demeanor", might be named Doris after Doris Walker, who in the movie tried to raise her daughter to believe fairy tales (analogous to Dark Worlds) weren't real. The protagonist of the film is Kris Kringle, this one's obvious. And while Gerson Boom's book "Lord of the Hammer" has been called a Lord of the Rings reference, Gerson was also a turtle... and in the movie, one of the characters Kris Kringle interacts with early on is a Mr. Shellhammer... need I say more? I for one will be on the lookout for a mention of Noelle's or Kris's houses being on a 34th Street.
Holy shit you COOKED
ALSO FINALLY SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT KRIS OBVIOUSLY HAS SOME KNOWLEDGE OF THE FUTURE I FEEL LIKE EVERYONE JUST IGNORES IT??
35:36 pause
toby taking his past writing and improving on it in his full game is really relatable. I’m not surprised that deltarune has parallels to Halloween hack as I’ve noticed I have similar patterns in my writing
double comment but i for one would love to hear another woody theory video going over the stuff that happened (as someone who’s also making a woody theory-related video, but is missing a lot of the specifics of what actually happened due to not being on twitter), but also whatever you do make i will wholeheartedly support
unrelated to the theor[ies] here, but this video made me realize how well Inscryption music fits as a backdrop to Deltarune discussion. how fun!
I love how the player controlling Kris is meant to be a metaphor for life controlling Kris. It seems to fit perfectly with the story
OK, hear me out. im not done with the video yet so this may have been mentioned, but sometime before 32:10 (where I am rn) the popup kris demon summoning dialogue is mentioned. This is just a crackpot theory, but what if kris succeeded in summoning a demon, but they didnt fulfil some sort of condition to get it a physical body so it took the closest thing it could get; kris himself. Im suggesting that kris, knowingly or not, actually summoned the player to them, but once again some condition wasnt met, thats why we cant use our created vessel body. Ill edit this comment to debunk myself if im dumb
the soul and our possession and projection on Kris being a metaphor for them feeling uncertain and projected on by others is genius