edited at 5/09/2022 to make it a more clear read: To clear up some things: TLDR: There are a lot of ways to explain the ending, but all of them come from the fact that okabe 2 is missing at the end. the steins;gate timeline is his timeline, yet he is nowhere to be found. and every interpretation or fix of the ending stems from this single error. firstly, something that I should have explained better in the video That something being the reason for why okabe disappears: the first reason would be that he is in the same situation as suzuha, meaning he would also have no reason to exist if the problem is fixed. although what suzuha says, as some people pointed out, doesn't really make a lot of sense. but, even if we see that aspect as a problem, there is still another reason for why they should not be able to come back to the steins;gate time line. according to suzuha, both in steins;gate and in 0, two of the same people from different times, can't meet each other. which would happen if they went back, while the original okabe of that timeline (okabe 2) was still there. so even if okabe didn't disappear, he should have still ended up like how suzuha and mayuri ended at the end of 0. but with all that said , This is only one way to change/fix/explain the ending. there are multiple other theories explaining the ending, some make more sense than the others, but none of them are THE RIGHT answer. so even the ending that I explained, even with this extra context is still probably not completely perfect, and it is simply just the ending that made the most sense to me. so don't take the video as 100% true facts. who knows, maybe one day, I'll make a video talking about every single one of those theories, but that's a different story for a different day. while you're at it, a like and sub will also be greatly appreciated, since I didn't want to mess up the tone of the video, I didn't say it there, but I will be very thankful if you do it :D My Socials: Second Channel: www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: twitter.com/APolygons2 TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@apolygons2 MyAnimeList: myanimelist.net/profile/APolygons2
Actually that's a wrong theory because it's explained throughout the show/anime that it's multiple versions of the same okabe and not different okabes therefore when the problem fixes okabe number two will live through the story of steins gate episode 1 to 22 and then missing link OVA and then steins gate 0 episode 1 to episode 24 and then back to the original steins gate for episode 24 In other words when he cancel the mistake and enter the time machine to return to steins gate world line just like there are many timelines there are also many steins gate timelines in particular when one of the okabes finishes the story the next one in this particular case number two will loop through everything we've seen again just like zero did just like one did and then after the second one does everything that we see the first one do or zero in this case again he will see a third one and a fourth one and a fifth one in a continuous loop
But your version does make sense. I didn't mean exactly wrong theory what I meant to say was whilst possible I personally feel like it's more in the way that I explained
I think you have small misunderstanding of how the timelines work. okabe 2 can't loop back into being 0. because in his timeline, once he gets to episode 22, suszuha never comes back to stop world war 3. since our okabe already stopped that and saved kurisu in okabe 2s timeline. so when okabe 2 reaches ep22 missing link can't happen. the normal ep 23 can't happen either. kurisu is already saved, so he won't have to do anything.
@@APolygons2 🗿 probably correct actually I might be wrong and he indeed should disappear but isn't the point of saving her that the other one still finds her "stabbed" and sends the d-mail technically though you have a point actually I didn't think of that
@@APolygons2 Okabe 1 replaced okabe 2 when he got back to the future with suzuha (the flaming time machine) okabe traversing into steins;gate but their material body plus the time machine had to stay in the previous timeline thus, not existing anymore, meaning he replaced okabe 2 after Okabe 2 did the same as 1, therefore the stab wound and hospital recovery time
but why would okabe 2 go back to save kurisu when kurisu is already alive? you have to keep in my that by the time okabe 2 gets to that point kurisu is alive since she never actually died.
@@APolygons2 I remembered how I fixed the paradox back in the day, Bear with me, its kinda a lot the okabe you watch at that episode is not okabe 1 saving kurisu and okabe 2 but the same okabe they are both okabe 1 the one from steins gate. Meaning the Okabe that goes with mayuri and get the green upa its the same okabe as the okabe that watches the video of okabe 0 gets inspired and saves kurisu thus getting to steins gate The steins;gate begins not with the okabe we watch at the ending but with okabe 0 and then diverge in episode 23b and steins gate 0 to get to how the other okabe on steins;gate episode 23a goes on saves kurisu gets back to the moment of he and suzuha leaving, back to the future but suzuha and the time machine are from another timeline, therefore they have to return to their Original timeline due to the divergence point that's occurring the burning of papers, on the other hand okabe is from steins;gate he is the OG thus remaining there hurt and he is rushed to the hospital
Of Course, Okabe 0 Had to Live his entire Life with the pain of losing both Kurisu and Mayuri, just hoping he can fix it all somehow, I can’t even imagine how happy he was to see Mayuri again when he went to save her and suzuha.
@@OnyX_Orionno, bc Okabe 0 (aka Angst-king or B timeline Okabe) "stops existing" since Okabe 2 that was slapped by Mauri, hopped from A line on B, faked Kurisu's death, have shifted from the this B timeline (aka 0 timeline/kurisu-is-dead-timeline) and finally reached S;G that is free from both A and B attractor field (plus his memories overwrite his og self's aka Okabe's 1 or A timeline Okabe). So A timeline goes as intended in order for Okabe to become Okabe 2 later, but timeline B's usual memory delivery shenanigans gets "interrupted/aborted" as well as Okabe 0 in it. All because since B timeline was changed by ours truly - Okabe 2 (who eventually takes place and resides in the S;G timeline) wich came at a cost of Okabe 0 eventually being left in 1800 with no way to go back since his machine is a prototype and Suzuha and Mauri's is out of fuel (something about those lines. No way back and no way to overwrite Okabe 2 for our Angst-king sadly, he's memories won't reach Okabe 2, which stays in S;G with all the memories he got at this point, no possibility of "dreams" aka flashbacks of Okabe 0 im pretty sure) Poor dude gets wiped at the end, but at least Okabe 2 got where he wanted. Changed his fate. With a help of 0 Okabe ofc once again, since it's him who sent Suzuha on mission, sent a message to save Kurisu and ect.
Regardless of how great steins gate is, can we appreciate the wonderful SOUNDTRACK is, so intense, right to the emotions of the moment, with a retro touch!
@@DaTLMusic but they do use a lot of the VN ost. there are a few tracks missing, but for every one of them are 2 original tracks added instead. and it's done by the same composer with the same style.
I feel like the best moment in the series was when Okabe sent a d-mail to his past self with the text "it's steiner time" and then the past Okabe steins;gated all over the lab.
I think there's something even more complicated going on here. We know that the "alpha" and "beta" worldlines aren't actually worldlines, they are attractor fields, each attractor field has an infinite number of possible worldlines, that's why when Okabe was trapped in the alpha attractor field (where Mayuri always dies prematurely) he was able to see many worldlines where Mayuri dies, with slight variations in Mayuri's deaths, Heart Attack, shot in a taxi, shot in the lab, run over by a car on two different locations, etc. I think that when Okabe 1 went back for the first time to try and save Kurisu, he actually went to only one possible worldline, but there are also infinitely many more worldlines with small tiny variations where Kurisu also died because Okabe 1 stabbed her accidentally because he went back in time. I think that there's something going on here, similar to how the reading steiner phenomenon solved the "plot hole" of Okabe keeping his memories intact across worldlines. I think since only one worldline can exist at a time and all others just stay as mathematical possibilities, all Okabes collapsed into one at the end of Steins Gate, that final Okabe has the memories of all Okabes, so, no Okabe disappears technically. If we are going to apply the same logic you allied to S;G 0, Okabe from 0 should have disappeared the moment he sent that video to himself as a dmail. But he didn't, because there is still a mathematical possibility of his dmail not working or not being read properly (what happened in Okabe 1's phone at the beginning of the series) I don't know if i overcomplicated everything or if someone else has said something similar before, but these are just my thoughts on the situation.
I've seen the idea of okabe's mind getting send to one single okabe before, but if that happened, okabe 1 should have transferred to okabe 2, not the other way around since that's how reading steiner has always worked. and there isn't really any evidence to support any okabe transferring at the end to begin with. Also, there is a good reason for why okabe 0 never transferred. at the shot at the end of 0, he only recorded the message. when the message was actually sent, okabe 0 was in some random timeline and time in the middle of no where with mayuri and suzuha. we don't know what happened to him, but reading steiner works based on time frames. if okabe 0 is in a time after or before okabe 1's death, reading steiner can't really happen. I made an error in the video. I used "disappear" as a word, because I tried to explain my point based on what suzuha says about her disappearing. but as many pointed out, suzuha's logic is flawed in the first place. but the very base of my logic stays the same. okabe 1 should arrive in okabe 2's timeline. there should be another okabe there, one that never goes back to save kurisu because she has already been saved by okabe 1. so, there should have been either 2 okabes at the end of the series, or okabe one should have left to some random other time to not meet himself, just like how suzuha and mayuri did at the end of 0.
By the way, I'm confused with something. Okabe 0, is the okabe who sent the video dmail to okabe 1 on the start of the series. But did that okabe 0 lived any experience with Kurisu? Because if not, how did he know that okabe 1 lived 3 weeks with kurisu alive? I'm so confused with this overthinking man xd
@@APolygons2 and if okabe 1 has gone to a random time line, there is a chance of him finding okabe 0 and make a time paradox? lmao i'm overcomplicating i'm sorry
@@Bazzinger Tldr - 0kabe fucked up timeline to the point that Okabe was able to reach steins;gate. uh... 0kabe is the one who experienced all of og steins;gate story and then given up after failing in rescuing Kurisu one time. And he is the one who send "instructions/motivation" to his old self Okabe on how to save Kurisu after first failed attempt. He is basically helping other version of himself and in a sense 0kabe creates a path to steins;gate worldline for Okabe to follow. Also on a little sidenote "one active worldline" is an outdated concept. Either cuz of 0kabe's steiner, or because of other perceivers, idk. Considering how messed up is worldline of zero. Where multiple worldlines not only exist in more or less same time/place, they are also intertwined, but also straight up connected to each other and directly influence each other. Trough 0kabe.
appearing out of nowhere in the past is already changing the world to an extent, then going back to the future wouldn't make you disappear but could make duplicates, in the world where you didn't need to go back anymore, the present you who was supposed to now go back to the past, and the future you now going from past to present would also stick around...? so Suzuha took Okabe 2 in secret after taking Okabe 1 to the hospital *and-*
Yes I know the disappearing thing was my mistake, I mentioned it in the pinned comment. I was going to say what about okabe 2, but then you said suzuha took him in secret which was kind of funny, but somehow it would actually make sense lol
But that would make the entire story pointless. Besidrs the fact that the second okabe gets a plastic upa instead of a metal one proves they aren't the exact same. But either way, hope you enjoyed. Do me a favour and just take a look at my channel to see if any of my recent stuff interests you. It physically hurts me that this half baked thing I made over 2 years ago when I had no idea what I was doing has like over 90% of my channel's entire view count lol
It was an interesting video for sure, but I don't see the plot hole. Through my eyes, it makes sense. Let me explain my pov. Suzuha goes back in time, and appears at the radio building the day of the conference. But it wasn't until a week later that her and Okabe go back in time to save Kurisu. At that point in time, she had already traveled to other time periods, and established the posts that led to books on theories for time traveling under the name of John Titor. But it had been years since then, and it changed things that didn't leave a big impact on the time line, not enough to change any of the fixed event that would happen in between. Events pulled in by the attractor field. With me so far? When Suzuha and Okabe went back, they went to the day of the presentation. And by saving Kurisu, the timeline split at an earlier point than previously done so in Okabe's time traveling expeditions. They could not stay in that period of time because there would be two Okabe, so they went back to the time machine before it was too late. The time machine disappeared the moment the phenomenon occured, most likely when the first D-mail was sent. In this new timeline, suzuha had no reason to go back in time to that time period. THAT is why she disappeared. Okabe returned to his actual time period, but in the new timeline. This is because of his ability to "observe" the timeline as it is mentioned later in the movie. Now, just because Suzuha disappeared, doesn't mean she didn't go back in time at all. We see that a time machine was built regardless of the original series and 0 because Kurisu wanted to save Okabe from his disappearance. In a timeline in which a time machine was built anyways, why would events that occured using a time machine be erased? Specially taking into consideration the attractor field? Now, looking at the timeline later on, to the events of the movie, we get another event that is similar. Okabe is in trouble and will disappears. This makes Kurisu build a time machine that is taken by Suzuha to the past to prevent it from happening. However, because she's not from that time period, nor does she really know Okabe, it can't be her to save him. It had to be Kurisu because it was her knowledge that led to remember Okabe, as well as the reason for the time machine. In that timeline, Okabe was supposed to disappear. The moment Kurisu saved him, they moved very slightly to a timeline running parallel to the one they were just at. Because of their experience with time travel, Okabe and Kurisu must have created another time machine. Either they realize that a time machine must be created to stay on that same timeline were no one has to die, and/or to send future Suzuha back in time to make sure everything is going according to plan to lead them to the true Steins Gate. Again, leading to the creation of a time machine, and event caused with their time machine to stay fixed in the past events. While there is no proof for that last bit, it is what makes it make sense in my mind.
@@streetgamer3452 i tried explaining it as best as I could at the moment. I might edit the post to fix a thing or two, but as I stated, it is the way things make sense to me. It is one of my favorite anime.
that is one hell of an explanation. while you filled a lot of gaps to make it make sense, I'm still impressed. specially because you even made sense of the none canon movie that by all means broke the rules that the show had established. I highly doubt that the writers were thinking this far in without explaining it in the show, even with a show as well put together and well researched as this, but still, it doesn't make this read any less interesting.
My thoughts exactly. Thanks for this. So many people overlook the fact that they consciously avoid a paradox throughout the show, including that final mission and that Suzuha would no longer have to travel back in time since Steins Gate was achieved through saving Kurisu and destroying the papers. We can poke at the show's logic all day long since it's all theoretical but it's one of the most solid time travel stories I've ever come upon. A true masterpiece in my mind.
4:10 What happened to Okabe 2 was that - he sent a dmail because he saw a dead body -> this triggered SERN (which leads to a dystopic future) -> he continues to evolve into Okabe 1 - and the story repeats itself.
Okabe's decision to save Kurisu, despite knowing that she's not alive in his original timeline, is a central and emotionally charged plot point in "Steins;Gate.
I think this plothole can be addressed if we dig into quantum mechanics a little, which play a significant part in the plot of Steins;Gate. From the beginning, Okabe 0 and 1 are identical. Makise Kurisu is in a state of superposition, being both dead and alive at the same time in the universe's eyes, which I believe is a clever nod to Schrodinger's Cat Experiment. Regardless, whether Okabe 0 or Okabe 1, their timelines until episode 23 are the exact same. Kurisu is "dead" (actually in superposition), and they go through the same three weeks of hell. Prior to episode 23, the world treats her as though she were dead. During episode 23 however, the wave function collapses, assuming the "Many Worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics and not Copenhagen's interpretation among others. In one timeline, the wave function collapses in one direction and Okabe gives up on rescuing Kurisu, then the superposition is shattered and Kurisu is really dead, resulting to the events of Steins;Gate 0. In the other timeline, the wave function collapses in the other direction. Okabe receives the message from future Okabe, and will opt to rescue Kurisu, breaking the superposition and Kurisu is alive. However, there is one issue: why was Kurisu in superposition to begin with? Why was she neither dead nor living? Because Future Okabe "deceived the world." Okabe just has to travel back in time and stage Kurisu's death to complete the circle, putting her back in superposition. Now, "Okabe 2" witnesses this, and the same result occurs. He goes through the three weeks of hell, Kurisu remains in superposition until Episode 23, when the wave function collapses, splitting the timeline again, creating the events of Steins;Gate 0 and the original Steins;Gate. I like to believe that this is the correct explanation of how Steins;Gate unfolded, and given that string theory, causality, and quantum mechanics are covered and talked about throughout the story, it seems logical that this is the case. The narrative is merely presented in "chronological" order for the benefit of the audience, but the universe perceives time differently than we do, creating what we perceive to be a plot hole. As usual, however, the strange behaviors of quantum mechanics can explain phenomena that would be difficult to convey in a conventional sense.
Thanks for your comment. It brings me back to my high school days, where I both watch Steins;Gate and I had my final exams for Physics :) Reading it made me feel nostalgic haha
Your interpretation is great however Okabe 2's past is not the same as Okabe 1 and 0. This is because Okabe 2 recieves a green upa while Okabe 1 recieves a metal upa. You could argue that it does not make a difference but it does. It means that at the very least Okabe 2 cannot be Okabe 1. Meaning that he must be Okabe 0.
Time travelling concept is always tricky because it's still unrealistic and in any story it's gonna have at least one plothole. Here it's forgivable since the story still made sense, the concept is used well.
@@APolygons2 You know whats insane? The only reason its so good is that its a complete replica of Jon titor's story. The idea of divergence is so good that it holds against literally everything. I love it.
@@marazali2557 Interestingly, the divergence idea Titor had was itself taken from David Deutsch's theory on time travel from 1991, which is actually considered by many to be a flawed theory of time travel in and of itself as the physics community is still skeptical of the many worlds theory beyond alternate timelines being mathematical possibilities. The only vaguely accepted form of time travel in physics is that which does not alter the past (in accordance with the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle), also called a Closed Timelike Curve. How such CTCs emerge, I cannot say.
@@milkwater1204 Thanks for the response. Obviously divergence theory does not hold up in the physics world. However, if someone actually came from the future and told that his representation of the future wouldn't be perfectly aligned with the timeline who he travelled, there is not a single counter argument. That combined with the fact that John Titor's conspiracy about ibm 5100 actually being correct, made his story perfect. Steins gate is undoubtedly the best media to encapsulate that. Also in the visual novel of steins gate, kurisu explains what CTC is. Its actually pretty interesting how detailed her explanation was on the vn. Thanks again for the insights.
My thoughts exactly. All time travel stories contain paradox plot holes. They all require a suspension of belief. Steins;Gate is goated beyond all expectations despite this.
I watched S;G two years ago and introduced it to a friend shortly after. We spent days debating about the show, trying to understand it's story. We managed to figure out everything but two things: the reason why Okabe 0 went to 12000BC, and the same problem treated in this video. The Okabe 0 thing was "why did he bother to go to the 12000BC, when he could just send the video D-mail and the worldline would shift inmediately, preventing Suzuha and Mayuru's travel and possibly stopping Okabe from dying". The only reason we could think of was that if Okabe 0 sended the D-mail, then Reading Steiner would kick in, completely erasing 15 years of good memories of Okabe 2 next to Kurisu, and replacing them with the horrible memories of Okabe 0, and perhaps he just didn't want this to happen. Maybe he just accepted his "death" and thought it was for the best allowing a version of himself living a good life. Anyway it's nice to find another dedicated fan of S;G who also managed to unravel the twisted plot of the series. Cheers :)
Don't you think it would be a huge hypocrisy from his side to tell his past self "do not undo anything" and then undo things himself? All conditions must be met. Also he is the Okabe that suffered the most, why would he want to RS into S;G, at that point he'd lose any reason to live making the series pointless. The whole goal was to help someone with the brain less fried to reach the wordline. He had to "die" on 2025, if he just sent the D-Mail, let's imagine the line didn't get interrupted, he'd be very alive if it was still that line and 2025, causing a paradox. And he wouldn't be erasing 15 years with Kurisu as she was dead there. They knew the % of the line that would come before the S;G was reached, so he had everything ready for the next one to take the baton (which is the Okabe we see throughout the first season).
i can actually solve that for you. if you look at when he recorded the message suzuha is still a kid. and we know okabe 1 will be able to see the message, at the time when suzuha comes back to the past to stop ww3. we also know that okabe 0, dies before the time where suzuha comes back. so he would be dead before the time reading steiner would need to kick in. but if he is years and years in the past, he can avoid his death, and keep his promise to mayuri and suzuha.
@@APolygons2 From what I understand about his reading steiner whenever a world line changes Okabe of lets say Oct 7, 2007 7:00pm goes to the new world line of Oct 7, 2007 7:00pm at the exact moment when such a change occurred. The fact that Okabe 0 does not exist at the point of time when the world line changes he simply ceases to exist when the past changes. It is just how their world works. It essentially revolves around Okabe since he is the only observer who can truly witness such changes. If he did not exist then all these changes that are made happen, and there is no one who can attest that such a change occurred. It is the same reason why Okabe takes over Steins;gate Okabe. Look at it this way. Okabe all this time when he travelled to the past could have stopped WW3 and let Kurisu die regardless of the one action of changing the metal Oppa to green. You all are arguing about Okabe 2 is a different Okabe bc of the green Oppa, but of course he is that is the whole point. Okabe does all the time traveling shenanigans with Suzuha and the one thing that has to happen last is they both need to exit from the past into the time machine because otherwise the world will collapse from the big paradox of 2 Okabes and 1 Suzuha who should not exist in that world line. I am assuming when they are in the time machine they are traveling back to the same moment they left and then bam RS activates and Okabe wakes up in the hospital the end.
I was searching for this comment, I didn't get it at first but when I watched that episode someone had explained it in the comments of where I watched it, So this theory just seemed solved to me because of that one thing
There are a flaw in this video, the fact that if you think about it, there is actually only one "real" Okabe. All Okabes except the one we follow only exists as possibilities until the Okabe that resides in the current "real" worldline makes the changes and his memories are transferred to the new worldline. After all we are shown no proof that other worldines are actually "real" outside of memories. Also, remember that Mayuri and Daru in the end know nothing about Suzuha. I think that what happens is that Okabe's Reading Steiner activated as soon as he went back to the present with Suzuha's time Machine, and his memories overwrite the memories of Okabe 2, since Steins Gate is now the "real" worldine. After all, the moment the worldine changes should be when Okabe 1 goes back for the second time to change the past, and the only Okabe who is present for that event is Okabe 1, meaning only Okabe 1's Reading Steiner can activate when the worldline is changed, but since he has to go back for the change to happen, the only moment it can happen is during the time travel, at the exact moment they're intersecting the same exact time they went back. That would leave two plotholes though but they can both be explained: 1: Okabe being in the hospital in the Steins Gate worldline. This one is easily explained by the fact we are never told why Okabe was in the hospital and the fact Mayuri and Daru never experienced the events of operation Skuld, yet do not seem to question why he was in the hospital. It is reasonable to expect that, despite not being affected by attractor field, the Steins Gate worldline would have similarities to the Beta timeline since they come from almost identical previous events, which means Okabe could possibly end up in the hospital with similar wounds due to an accident. 2: Okabe 0 is technically the original, so his perspective should be the the "real" worldline. This one is explained by the fact Okabe 0 travels back in time before the video D-Mail is sent, meaning he won't be there for Reading Steiner to activate, meaning Okabe 1 keeps his memories, meaning he becomes the "real" Okabe by default.
so where does Okabe 0 end up exactly, did he cease to exist or he is just living as his own person in the uknown timeline? Sorry just a little confused.
@@TheRed02151 That is actually a good question. Technically he ceases to exist, since only one worldline at a time is the "real" one, but considering worldlines exist as possibilities he theoretically would have a possible future in the Beta timeline. His mission was to bring back Mayuri and Suzuha to his "present" time, and he specially promised to bring back Mayuri to Kagari, so the plan was probably to use the time machine to go back to a time after the D-Mail to the "real" Okabe is sent, ensuring that he stays in his original timeline by not being present when the D-mail is sent. So you could say that he both ceases to exist but also has a future, even though only a theoretical one that would only become real if his worldine becomes the "real" one again for some reason.
@@TheRed02151 okabe is rewrited or discarded. S;G and all stories related to the same universe, happens inside a computer simulator, supposedly each story happens in a separate simulation, and even that, simulations can have their own nested simulations, the divergence number is just the divergence between parent and child simulations. Those simulations can be configured with certain parameters so the science takes wacky scenarios which in turn makes having divergence in the first place, this is why all the weird things happen in all stories related to the universe, like the things on chaos head, or occulting 9. Such simulation starts in 2038 in the "real" world, so in order to reach that the computer has to build a path of events based on the real world, or nesting level of simulation if you are starting your own and you live in a simulation too, which you do not know if you live in a simulation actually. worldline shifting is just the computer rebuilding world history after an important change in the world history and adapts around it, reading steiner is a malfunction of the simulation due to the params mentioned before so the memory data is not discarded but rewrite it. In the end this explains that steins gate story is a closed loop story that self feeds on events that makes the simulation adjust itself. Bonus, S;G being a simulation gives another interpretation on why Okabe "alucinates" when "time leaps" to the future in 0, due to all of them being data, a "soul" is data, so basically okabe was alive inside a pc.
Just for clarification because i see a lot of people get this wrong, this also applies to other anime like Tokyo Revengers because the japanese writers have the same way of interpreting these terminologies: Time leap: is when the character's consciousness jumps back to his past self meaning his past self doesn't exist anymore as it is him now from the future Time travel: is when the character physically travels back in time and his past self is stil physically present meaning they both still exist in that particular time
I mean, If I was talking about Tokyo revengers it would have a lot more than just 1 plot hole. that show's time travel has so many holes it puts every fishing net to shame. even an attempt at fixing it would actually change the entire story from start to finish. but yes you are 100% correct about those 2 and their differences.
Time leap is basically the butterfly effect,while time travel is the delorean like in back to future.My question is which method is okabe using because if it is time travel then yes there can be 2 okabes but if its the former only one,maybe thats the difference between steins gate and 0. one okabe used time leap while the other used actual time travel.
@@michaelwhitmire9015 I think time travel only happens when they use the actual time machine and time leap happens when they use that time microwave i can't remember what it's called
@@hish33p32 The time machine is superior to the microwave because it can send people back and fourth to the future rather than just their thoughts.With that in mind yes there can be two okabes.
Then when you include D-mail, you get the third: -Timeline-hopping: when you mentally override the consciousness of a version of you from a reality that diverges from your own at some point in the past. It's easy to miss the fact that they utilize 3 entirely different ways of manipulating timelines the first time watching the show, and think it's all just variations of the same principle. Timeline hopping essentially is like moving *sideways* through time. Time leaps are like rewinding back the tape on the same timeline to try new outcomes. Time Travel is still like moving 'forward' on the timeline, but looping around to an earlier point in a totally deterministic way, so not only are there two of you at once, but nothing you do in the past in this method can change the outcomes of the future you return to (aside from what Okabe does to 'trick the world').
I don't think veggies changed the gender. Gender is probabilistic so eating veggies advice must have influenced it rather than veggies itself. Kinda like Butterfly effect
@@thegull1551 They're not. Sex is the biological status of being a male or a female, gender is more like what society defines as feminine or masculine.
I know it's late, but I really loved this anime and came up with an explanation when I finished s;g0 that I wanted to share with y'all. For me, what really happens is: Okabe 1 fixes the timeline and prevents both ww3 and the death of Kurisu. Then he and Suzuha get out of there. Okabe 2 experiences everything Okabe 1 did and deletes the database, thinking Kurisu will be dead. When Okabe/something changes the past he completely overwrites the Okabe that was living in that timeline right? Well, he did change the past drastically, thus he could experience reading steiner if he was in the "present". What if, while coming back with the time machine, he overwrote Okabe 2 just before disappearing like Suzuha? What if Okabe 2 was, let's say, talking to Mayuri/Daru, sad because he thought Kurisu was dead, and suddenly he got overwritten "incompletely" due to Okabe 1 disappearing? And, what if Okabe was at the hospital not because he was recovering from a stab, but because he just lost his consciousness? I haven't read the VN, but if I remember correctly, the anime doesn't tell us WHY is Okabe in the hospital, right? So, at the end, we have Okabe 2's body with Okabe 1's mind, basically like everytime a dmail is sent!
shouldnt it be possible? If Okabe 2 sees Kurisu lying on the ground (thinking shes dead) he sends the first dmail and lives the three weeks where Mayuri dies over and over and then he removes all the dmails he made just to think at some point that Kurisu will die if he removes the last dmail. He then proceeds to delete it anyways like Okabe 1 did and then for his suprise he realises Kurisu is still alive. Oh I just understood why Okabe 1 cant exist lol.
The thing is, Okabe1 and also Suzuha both can exist. When you use the time machine, you arrive in a altogether different timeline than your own. No matter what happens to that timeline, it won't make you disappear, what disappears is the timeline you came back from. Going with this, Suzuha should actually be just fine at the end, and so should "Okabe1". In the original, on the steins gate worldline, there is only one Okabe in the end because Okabe1 is treated as being the very same Okabe2, but just older, and he simply goes back to the present slightly after the younger self leaves to save Kurisu. Just as you pointed out, Okabe1 should not be able to exist in the end because by his very definition he is the second Okabe who received the dmail from Okabe0, but from a worldline where Kurisu is dead for real. And in fact, this is not a problem because Okabe1 was never necessary to exist, he can be Okabe2 from the very beginning, meaning he can be an Okabe that received the dmail from 0, but Kurisu was never dead to begin with, he simply failed to realize she is alive. This is where the actual problem appears in the original, because they show us an actual Okabe1, who verified that Kurisu is in fact dead. They should have made him only assume she is, without fact checking, and her being just fine. This can happen right after the last dmail is undone and Okabe reaching S;G worldline first try, but he must never check properly that Kurisu is dead, he simply needs to assume it without actually verifying (without googling Makise Kurisu death only to find nothing, or the others telling him he is tripping cause she is not dead). In addition to this, since the moment she was supposed to die and the present 3 weeks later after last dmail is undone, she must not meet the lab members, so that it won't be obvious that she did not die. Then he only needs to meet the Suzuha who left in a timemachine from Okabe0's world and save Kurisu. For Kurisu to be saved a time machine and an Okabe with reason to save her is necessary, which was only made possible because she had to die in a timeline, but that timeline does not have to be the timeline of Okabe1, Okabe0 will do just fine, he is the only one who needs to see a Kurisu that was actually dead. He is the one who sent suzuha back and the dmail to fix it, but only after dying / disappearing to the past, so that reading steiner won't activate for him in 2036, but the worldline would actually stay with the Okabe who receives the dmail. If we go with Okabe actually verifying she is dead (meaning he would become the Okabe1 we described), the plot will play the same way, he goes back to save Kurisu and succeeds, but when he travels to the future, he will arrive in a future where Okabe2 never had any reason to leave, because right after he deleted the last dmail, he checks that Kurisu is dead only to realize she isn't, so no need for time traveling. Meaning there would be both Okabe 1 and 2 in the timeline that Okabe1 actually exists.
@@eusebiu4506 Okabe never verifies if she is dead. He always assumes so. Okabe0 is sure of it because of the news about her death. All Okabed run away at the sight of her bloodied body without checking. The whole point is that Okabe has to THINK she is dead, and if there was a possibility to check her body then the whole plan fails.
@@eusebiu4506 That Okabe doesnt verify anything either. Remember, he has to send the accidental dmail; what Daru and Okabe erase in Alpha worldline is the dmail in the database of Echelon. Okabe sees a bloody Kurisu, sents the dmail, gets steinered to alpha, then back to beta after Daru deletes the dmail. THEN he has to let everything play out as before, as detailed by Zero Okabe, or else he cant possibly be already there. The Okabe we see in the final ep discovering Kurisu in that shed never sees her again, until he and the one we have been following become one again and crossed paths with her at the very end.
Now I feel bad for not adding them to every video.... They do take a very long time, so I'm really glad at least the ones that I have made are useful to someone
Tbh,I've never thought about what happened to Okabe 1 after deceiving Okabe 2. This video made helped me to understand better what happened at the end of Steins;Gate,well done 👍
I've always assumed it's not okabe 1 vs okabe 2 ( that is to say multiple timelines), but actually past okabe vs future okabe (a closed loop system). Let me explain: I believe the timeline we first seen in episode 1 is the perfect timeline, aka one where both Kurisu and Mayuri live. The past Okabe is misled into believing that the unconscious Kurisu is actually dead by future Okabe, thus sending the 1st d-mail and beginning the journey. As such, the journey of Steins;Gate is more or less one of returning to the original "Steins;Gate Timeline". That's just me though. Anyone have any objections?
I do sir! Why should suzuha keep coming back and sending him to save kurisu if she is already saved? if kurisu was alive the first time too, then she was alive when okabe cancelled his first D-mail too. which would make the whole going back to save kurisu thing a massive prank made by suzuha. I could buy okabe accidently doing the same thing over and over again even though kursiu is saved by not knowing that, but I can't buy suzuha coming back from the future and talking about a WW3 that doesn't exist to convince him to do it.
My take is same as the above, but instead of The Perfect Timeline it's just near perfect (as in, easiest to reach SG): Kurisu is still dead, WW3 happens. And the ending is Future Okabe reaching SG and Suzu no longer a time traveler. Is there a problem with this interpretation? I don't really know cause I'm dumdum lol
I never thought of it like that. For me, the ending means that there is indeed one and only one Okabe. One that has the memories of Okabe 1 but never actually went through it all. Every time Okabe time-leaps, he does not go back, he sends his memories to a younger Okabe. I understand that's what happens in the ending. One last time-leap. After all, as you said, there is no way he could be there
*EDIT 21/02/23: I had to retcon a few things because I haven’t seen the series in so long so I’ll edit this message.* I hope you get to see this! I've come to bring some light over to the subject. - SG0 is a midquel not a prequel - I will not use the same names you used (Okabe 0, 1, 2) because they are misleading and confusing. For this message Okabe 0 will be the Okabe from SG0, the other ones I don't have a name for at the moment - This Okabe from 0 is known as MWC Okabe too since that’s the name of his WL (Milky Way Crossing) - They are able to know what the next wordline % will be - Even though there were millions of Okabe throughout history, they didn’t go through the same things. For example one Okabe experienced lines A B C D and another one could have experienced E F G H and these lines aren’t the same - The movie and the ova are not canon, they break too many rules of this universe constantly and any argument including those is wrong - SG worldline doesn't experience any convergence as the line is unknown and unique The first Okabe (ep1) is the one we follow throughout the original anime (S;G), but there are an infinity of Okabe that went through that process and ended up becoming “zero”, we just happen to see the one that succeeded. He wasn’t the smartest, he just had in his memory all the advancements all the other Okabe made. There are 3 conditions to reach the S;G worldline (will just call it SG from now on): - Suzuha must travel to the past - The slap must happen (happens due to Operation Arclight and it happened multiple times, but the other conditions weren’t met) - The video must be seen (this depends on the previous conditions) *Why couldn't the Okabe from episode 1 watch the video?* There is only a single worldline where this video can be watched. MWC Okabe had the knowledge about what the next wordline would be, so since he knew he’d succeed, he asked the video to be sent to that specific line. Now here is the tricky part: the video was too big just like memories, so they had to compress it somehow. But how? Every line is like “1.23456xxxxxxxx…” where the number after the 6th decimal doesn’t represent a notable change in the line. So they used this to send the video in small parts of 32 bytes to that line (from ep 22/23) but a lot of times until the video was complete. For example, they sent it to: 1.234561 / 1.234562 / 1.234563 / 1.234564 / 1.234564 (obviously this isn’t the line and it’s longer than that) until the video was complete. Now with all conditions met, they could reproduce the video. Conditions 1 or 2 can happen on any of the worldlines but there is only one where all of them happen simultaneously. The Okabe 0 we see did not receive the message when his story “started” because he is the first one to have sent this video in the first place. BUT The Okabe 0 we see IS NOT any of the previous Okabe we got to see on "season 1". *Further explanation about the video compression can be found in the S;G after story which name I don’t remember. That was the drive all Okabe 0s needed to come up with the plan, it was just impossible for the first one to succeed no matter what. The last Okabe 0 just took all pieces that were already in place and used them, since he had in his memory millions of years of attempts.
Moving on. After Okabe stabbed himself in the stomach, he didn't interfere with the Okabe that was going to get fooled because those 3 weeks of pain and suffering were a must. There wouldn't be a solution if there wasn't desperation in the first place, so he had to let it happen. MWC Okabe even told him to not undo anything, just fool everyone. The difference this time is that the Okabe that got fooled didn't need to actually save her. When he was back he would soon find out that she was alive which would then trigger RS and merge our original Okabe with the one that got fooled due to physical RS (explain in another comment as I ran out of characters here).
*So, what happens when Okabe is back from those 3 weeks (one last time)?* First you must ask yourself who triggered the time travel on that line and it was Okabe 1 (the original one). Since there was already causality, he triggers the time travel before the first D-Mail is sent which will send him to the line where this causality wasn’t interrupted. This means that if Okabe 2 was about to send the D-Mail and go through his 3 weeks, Okabe 1 will be sent to the line where this would have happened, otherwise he'd have been stuck on Alpha which we know didn’t happen. Here is an example: you are about to leave your house before your cat breaks a glass. You won’t know for sure if he broke it or not, you just know it might happen, but that glass was in such a risky place and the cat was looking at it, you are absolutely sure that when you are back the glass will be broken. When you’re back you are in the reality where the cat did break the glass. This is similar to the series because you leave a line into another and you already know what will happen because you know all actions lead to that moment. For the people saying that Okabe 0 will RS to SG it won’t and that would completely annihilate the story. When he travels to save Suzu/Mayuri the line doesn’t change because it wasn’t a relevant thing for history (the line changes but past the 6th decimal which I already said doesn’t matter at the moment). That’s why the small Suzu that we see there is the one that travels to the original SG anime in Beta. Okabe fooler fools Okabe fooled → Okabe fooled goes through the 3 weeks → when he would have been back he is replaced by the Okabe that fooled him due to RS activating (physical RS in this case). You can use a similar concept to why Okabe 0 ended up finding Suzu and Mayu to save them, they just found it with their methods and convergence thanks to the millions of failed attempts stored in MWC Okabe’s memory. I hope that after reading this you can finally say that Steins;Gate is flawless.
ok I pretty much knew most of this, except the physical reading steiner thing which was never mentioned in the anime or SG VN as far as I know. but I had heard this explanation before, and I have asked the same thing of everyone, if okabe 1 (the one who fooled) replaced okabe 2 (the fooled) with a version of reading steiner, why does he have a stab wound when getting back to the future (no reference intended)? that is straight up said in the VN and is heavily hinted at in the anime. so we can't dismiss it. unless you mean okabe 2 (the fooled) reading steiners into okabe 1 (the one who fooled) but that would go against the rest of your explanation.
@@rsGasha wait wait wait. so he replaced okabe 2, but without replacing his body? this is very intriguing. Hmmmm.... ok tell me where is this Physical reading steiner thing explained, I might have to play it or watch to get a grasp of what you are talking about. because even though I understand what you are saying it doesn't fully make sense to me.... yet
@@APolygons2 while I can't provide you with a source at the moment, I bet a simple google search should suffice now you know what to search. I'll be asking around on discord but you should research too! Just give it more thought before you commit to it. Not only does it explain the stab, but also doesn't break any of the rules, and nothing says time travel can't work like that. It's only a plothole if it goes against what's already been stablished. If I find anything I'll reply to this again but don't wait for it anytime soon. (P.S.: if you liked S;G you should try the other series. Chaos;Child is insane, I liked it over S;G)
I think i have a solution, but some assumptions must be made. Assumptions/things to consider: -When a time machine travels to the past, it lands on a (slightly) different timeline, example: depart from 0.337581 and arrive on 0.337595. Because if this is not true, then the concept of travel to the past is useless as one cannot change timeline, nor events even with a god-like power like a time machine. -In addition to the first point, every perturbation on the timeline (time machine arrival, reading steiner user arrival, dmail/video mail arrival, etc) causes the timeline number to "change" (or diverge) as there is a timeline without the perturbation and one with it. For example, timeline 1.130204 does not receive suzuha in time machine and we think we are on it, but when we actually are notified that she is indeed here, then that means we were always in 1.130205. with the main difference being suzuha arriving and then both timelines follow different stories. Then to explain this possible solution. Okabe 1 arrives at 1.130205 when he erases first d-mail. But he thinks he is 1.130201(slighly different than in the series) then he receives suzuha 1 in a time machine and he thinks he now is on 1.130202, goes to the past, fails and comes back, now he thinks he is on 1.130203, then he receives the video-mail so he was always on 1.130205 (shown in anime and VN). then he goes to the past, arrives at the steins;gate timeline saves kurisu and avoids Okabe 2. Then when okabe 1 leaves to the future (and we WILL land on steins gate timeline), okabe 2's mind goes to another timeline with the first d-mail. Then another okabe (Okabe 2.5) comes back after he erases first dmail, the important part is that this okabe 2.5 must think that kurisu is dead (somehow, hide the truth from him?) and a suzuha 2 will be here (she came from a different timeline where kurisu is dead) and suzuha 2 travels with okabe 2.5 to another timeline and fails and come back to the present to a non-steins-gate timeline. Then following okabe 1 and suzuha 1 again, both arrive at the present in steins gate timeline, he is injured, and he goes to a hospital and we see ending of steins gate. And Suzuha 1 ... well she is free to live in the timeline? lmao if she travels to the past again, even if it is just 1 second, she moves outside of S;G timeline and problem solved. Hope you like this idea!
that would work... I think? I got a little confused at the okabe 2 part but it sounds like you thought this through, and addressed the okabe 2 which the show didn't, so I'll take your word for it that this could work as well
@@APolygons2okabe 2 sends the first dmail and his mind goes to another timeline, then 2-3 weeks later another okabe's mind comes back to this timeline when deleting the first dmail. If he still thinks kurisu is dead the body of okabe 2 and mind of okabe 2.5/3 will disappear from this timeline the moment he gets into the time machine the first time.
While this is logical to come to, the Okabe who reaches stein’s gate has full recollection of all that had transpired in the series in the bonus episode where the cast goes to America.
I mean of course, because the series went with "okabe 1" being the one who reaches steins;gate. there is also the fact that the bonus episode isn't really canon despite being very fun, but that doesn't really matter here.
This may be 10 months too late but I believed this was clarified in the visual novel and anime as well. The different world lines are like ropes and the threads of a rope represents the difference between each line. This is why Okabe is able to exist in the past with Mayuri and die because for all three world lines, that part of history is more or less the same. Okabe 0 does not disappear as you explain, him and Mayuri died in the past of that world line because he chose to stay there if not his reading steiner would activate resulting in him carrying forward his beta memories. Mayuri choses to stay with him and Suzuha uses the TM to go to the future where WL convergence would erase her as she expects in both WLs; this is evident from episode 12 of SG where Mayuri says he is the original Okarin. Now, to the point of the video, Okabe 1's reading steiner activates as him and suzuha move to the future and his mind takes over Okabe 2's. Okabe 2 did not disappear, he lived in this SG WL till his Okabe 1's conciousness took over and afterwards, okabe 1 would not know the history of Okabe 2 from when he saw Kurisu dead to present day. As for why he in the hospital, it was mentioned that he was in for a different reason unrelated to a stab wound and this was put as a way to show how similar the WLs are at different points. The anime follows a slightly different logic to how the VN's story goes by their choice of Okabe 0 choosing for his memories to not go forward.
The actual problem is Suzuha disappearing. Suzuha is a time traveler from previous worldline who is currently travelling on a diverging worldline, she has no reasons to disappear. Just like you go back in time and change something and go back to the future, you actually go to a whole new worldline than what you came from and you don't disappear. Depending on when the papers get burnt the scenario of Okabe2 can be explained. If you consider that the papers get burnt after they arrive back from saving Kurisu, then Okabe2 shouldn't be there because he would have gone back in time to save Kurisu, just like Okabe1 did. As Steins;Gate worldline divergence only begins when papers get burnt (that's the final step). If you consider that the papers get burnt after they before, then there will be two Okabes in the same time and worldline, such a situation is un-explained and you may consider any fan theory in this case.
huh interesting, what you said about suzuha makes sense, I guess that part is wrong in one way or the other. but what you said about okabe 2 doesn't really makes sense to me, even if the trigger is going to happen a little later, the future still should be changed. suzuha is from the future right? so if the world is not going towards ww3, she shouldn't have a reason to come back. From what I've seen there are different ways that the ending can be fixed/ is wrong. but bottom of the line is sadly the ending is broken in one way or another
@@APolygons2 the thing about Okabe2, if the. trigger is going to happen a little later then things will change only after that trigger. Just like if you are going to send the dmail 5 seconds later, then the worldline change will occur 5 seconds later only when you actually send that dmail. So, the worldline is currently heading toward ww3 and as soon as the papers are burnt, it diverges. Now what matters is when it happens
that's the thing though, the metal oppa is already not in the plane at that point. so the trigger should already be activated. what you're saying is more like sending a D-mail 5 seconds into the future, but the world line changing 10 minutes into the future because that's when the person sees the message. when the metal oppa changes into a plastic oppa, shouldn't the papers be already burnt in the future?
In steins gate's world, after changing the past, the world line recontructs from past to present to future to correct anomalies and paradoxes while the consequences of the changes remains (okabe being stabbed, Nakabachi's paper burning up, WW3 avoided, Suzuha then will be born in the future). Of course u cant make 100% logic out of this but thats how it is. There is not two Okabe's after the divergence
It seems the hole seems to come from the fact that since seeing kurisu in blood causes okabe to send the dmail no matter what, the show sorta pretends that there is a complete void where nothing really exists in the first world line after okabe leaves the world line and before he comes back, in a strange way it almost treats his first dmail jump as physical timeline jumping rather that reading Steiner like the other dmails. Very strange indeed. The only other thing I can think of is that after he leaves, we see okabe 2 in the hospital because he would still need to get stabbed at some point, or else there would be a paradox, so maybe instead of ceasing to exist, okabe himself travels back to right after he first traveled back, with this time maybe kurisu had never died but okabe 2 having okabe 1s memories through reading Steiner and that's why he goes back to get stabbed or something
I've always tought about the issue you just mentioned, I guess I brushed it away thinking that maybe because Okabe has the reading Steiner that maybe it made sense for that issue to exist.
The more I read these comments the more confused I get, it's like opening a box that has a smaller box in it. And that box has an even smaller box in it, and so on. Honestly in regards to time travel, world lines, etc. I'm not that savvy or knowledgeable. But one thing that stood out to me, is that. Why couldn't have suzu gone back in time, and done all the things she wants okabe to do? I mean, it's been established that she can go back in time and change it. Isn't she changing the past by going back just to get okabe to stop ww3? So why couldn't she have gone back, used the vending machine, knocked out makise & scared away her father, and yelled as to attract okabe's attention down there. Honestly imo, that was a pretty big plot hole. Because in SG 0 she's freaking out about okabe not wanting to do so. Yet i'm almost 100% certain she could just go back and do it herself. Idk, I like complex endings and plot twists. But this just goes a bit too far with the complexity imo.
sorry for the late response. to put it simply, if she was the one changing the worldline, in a world that she doesn't technically exist in yet, it would create a paradox. which suzuha of the ending explains as, "something that we can't let happen" but that's only her on beta, in the alpha world line which is where mayuri dies, she as john titor says paradoxes aren't real. so.... the answer to your question is, as far as THAT suzuha thinks, she can't do it due to the fear of creating a paradox. but are paradoxes actually a thing? Honestly, the answer is a no if we look at most of steins;gate, but the ending breaks the rules so idk what to make of it. I'm going to be real with you, this video was pretty shit. I didn't explain my point properly at all. and even in the S;G community there isn't a single way to explain/fix the ending that most of fans agree on. what I can assure you of is the fact that the ending breaks the rules in one way or another. One day in the future I may make a video going into detail about everything and why it is so tricky to fix it, but as it is now, you just have to take my word for it, or read a better explanation somewhere else, since again, this video isn't well explained enough, and this is only one of many, many different ways that people have tried to fix/explain the ending. thanks for watching though, hope you can stick around, I'm probably going to finally upload a video after six months either this or next week.
@@APolygons2 Honestly, I think you did a pretty good job explaining the ending. Like you said, it's got its fair share of plot holes. And you can't please everyone with how you think it should have ended.
thats the only moment where i question time travel. The only thing i couldnt get. But i guess the story of the anime can be true as well bc of the conciusness just going back to okabe 2. But i would love way more the interpretation u gave. It would be a "none of that ever happened" made to perfection with all of the lab members just having the memories and taking them as a dream together with okarin. It all starting again and ofc, okarin and cristina falling for each other once more ❤
Wasn't it said somewhere that only a timeline can exist at a time? Also many say that Okabe 2 and 0 are different because 2 does not inherits 0's memory but that's probably just because Okabe 0 leaps back to 2030ish and that will be the period when his "conscience" is transferred into Okabe 2. We juts never saw it because Okabe 2' story is closed long before that
yes only one timeline can exist. but the steins;gate timeline is okabe 2's timeline. not okabe 1s'. the main problem is that they just ignore okabe 2's existance. what happens to okabe 1 is up for debate, but the lack of okabe 2's existence after reaching steins;gate is without a doubt a problem.
@@APolygons2 I thought that okabe 1 coscience simply transferred into okabe 2. Also the fact that only one timeline can exist kinda take away much of the dark side of this essay. Yes, okabe 1 sacrified a lot like 0, but at the end of the day the final result is that the okabe who reached steins gate ( that being 1 or 2 is up to debate) is the only one who truly exist, and also the one where all the others converge at one point, no matter what. So we could say that at the end of the day we got a "and they lived happily ever after" ending
@@THEDIVISIONbythedivisionbell If they never talked about the stab wound you would be completely right, but both in the anime and in the VN the stab wound exists when okabe goes back. which 100% confirms that the okabe we see at the end is without a doubt okabe 1's body. I guess there is room to debate about every other okabe combining into 1, but nothing in the show has ever suggested that, something like that has ever happened. so I can't really give that idea more credit than calling it an unlikely but maybe possible theory.
@@APolygons2 About the okabes coming togheter that is simply a consequence of the "only one worldline per time" rule. I mean, their consciousness would not just disappear since Reading Steiner is a thing. Another option could be that Okabe 2 would go trough everything Okabe 1 went trough, with the exception that once he chooses to still sacrifice Kurisu in order to save Mayuri she would be fine since she wasn't actually dead thanks to Okabe 1. Also Okabe 2 memories are technically "comparable" to Okabe 1's since they went trough identical experiences in the timeline where Mayuri kept dying (I don't recall if that was alpha or beta timeline, it's been a while since I last watched the show). The only difference beetween them, when you think about it, is that Okabe 1 also had to go trough the "save Kurisu" thing, which Okabe 2 skipped trough since "his" Kurisu hadn't been actually killed in the first place. So it could also be that Okabe 1 and 2 became one the moment Okabe 1 got out of the time machine after leaping back and the reason the union was seamless is because their memories are comparable, Okabe 1 just happens to have a bit more of journey that 2 doesn't, thus he comes off as the last Okabe standing. Before Okabe 0's memories come to him in 2030 or around that, I guess
I think a really great representation of the timelines continuing after the time jump is re zero second season when the mc, Subaru, is going through a trial; he sees how after he dies and revives, the previous timelines still go on. I think it’s pretty cool ngl.
I've seen it and it was indeed pretty cool to see. in steins;gate's case it's a bit different though since only 1 timeline exists at any given time. the only reason we should see what happens to okabe 2, is because the timeline that the ending happens in is his. our okabe changed okabe 2's timeline, so it makes no sense for him to not exist.
@@APolygons2 Subaru's second trial wasn't necessarily confirmation on that there are multiple timeline all it showed was if there were multiple timelines that is how they would continue and it was also to stop Subaru to kill himself so easily like Subaru killing himself right at the start of s2. It's kinda hard to explain without getting into spoilers and it's been a while since I've read it so it may be scuffed and some details may be wrong or just forgotten/misremembered and some of it is speculation so just take it with a grain of salt if you do read this. So in Arc 6 there is a thing introduced as books of the dead these books contain the life of the dead person if you know the person you see their memories and if you don't it's just in book format these books work by the Corridor of Memories then Od Lagna/CoM compiles souls memories and turns them into books. Anyway Subaru eventually finds his own books of the dead which wouldn't be possible if there were multiple timelines as the CoM wouldn't have these books as the world wouldn't have any memories to compile in that alternate timeline.
I think honestly the biggest problem with the ending is that we simply don't know what Okabe 2 does and what happens to okabe 1 between that. We see the epilogue but none of the substance between which leaves the interpretation to what actually happened up in the air besides kurisu being saved being the one absolute.
Honestly dude, trying to understand the steins;gate timeline always messes with my head. After my first watch through i sat down and tried to drae a straight line that made sense and just couldnt manage. Maybe ill try again someday. I cant find any holes in your logic, it makes perfect sense. After all, okabe 0 was completely written out of existence in the end, which seems to point to okabe 1 also being lost to time. Either way, just watching your idea of how the show shouldve ended was chilling and i loved it. Loved the video my guy. Ill be sure to check out more of your stuff!
The plotholes are something which we can forget about when you watch the series it's close to perfection the story, the buildup , the character development , the music it even felt like we were a part of the future lab. rewatching steins Gate will just get you more invested.
I was shocked to see this pop up on my feed. Steins;Gate has taken the place of top anime in my heart once I actually finished the 1st episode. I was completely hooked, after the 1st episode ended (idk what I was doing at the time, but I always picked the wrong moments to watch it and then I would fall asleep before episode 1 ended). I've seen the entire series start to finish with the movie and OVAs about 3 times now. I already know I'm going to watch it again, but after this video, I think it will happen soon. I get really attached to anime characters so Steins;Gate was perfect for me. It's crazy how close it comes to being my #1 anime. Gintama is my #1 anime. Both shows saved my life at some point. I'm not extremely knowledgeable on time travel and causality but Steins;Gate storyline made sense to me. I never had to question the science in Steins;Gate. After reading the comments and typing this very long message, I think I processed enough information to see the issue talked about in the video 😅. Excellent video. It's nice to see all the Okabes explained, I never seen the anime dissected this way.
We don't actually know why SG timeline Okabe was in a hospital. Because there is only 1 timeline active at a given time and reading steiner overwrites his mind... Okabe 1 mind (yeah only mind) replaced Okabe from SG timeline three weeks after the incident with Kurisu. Okabe from the SG timeline just happened to be in a hospital (for whatever reason, not that wound from another timeline) when his mind was suddenly overwritten by Okabe 1. That also means that if zero Okabe ever decided to return back to 2036 with Suzuha and Mayuri he instantaneously triggered his reading steiner and did overwrite SG-1 Okabe AGAIN in 2036 of SG timeline (before that moment all those years there was Okabe 1, who did overwrite original SG timeline Okabe)
i'm pretty sure they do say he was in the hospital from the stab in the visual novel so... you could still argue okabe 2 was stabbed for a different reason, but thats pretty damn far fetched. if not better, its not worse than my fix though. so i give you credit for that.
to unravel this thread a little further, in the visual novel when you cross paths with kurisu again she bursts into tears and thanks him for saving her life. Implying that if this was a timeleap or overwrite or okabe forcing his consciousness to the steins;gate timeline, whatever, that this timeline's okabe STILL got his wounds from stepping in to protect Kurisu. That doesn't necessarily disprove the theory, as the s;g timeline is not limited to the rules of convergence, and could simply mean this timeline's okabe stumbled across the fight and stepped in to protect her anyways, and by some other circumstance she was unable to see him to the hospital after that. But that is ultimately a flimsier explanation. My honest explanation has always been that okabe "escaped" the attractor fields and laws of convergence, and formed a whole new timeline when he returned in the machine, therefore not actually displacing an existing okabe as he did it. I felt like that's how the game tried to push the explanation, because that's how my mind took it until now.
@@Gerolix if I remember correctly, they are, but only one at a time can be active. Others exist in a hypothetical form, containing information about all ivents of the specific timeline, but not really existing as a living reality. When something triggers convergence "main" timeline changes to another, becoming a "living" one, while placing previous to the hypothetical state
I found the same plothole 2 years before you made this video and posted about it on reddit to which most people dismissed and complained about the other things I listed as plotholes that weren't but they all avoided this. I am glad someone got it out there
this video kinda sucks and even has a major error but yeah the point is there. I'm going to make an actual good video on the topic within the next year. also please check some of my newest videos if you have the time, i swear i have gotten so much better than this videos quality lol
I always felt like something doesn't make sense but my brain just dies when I try to think of why and I still don't really understand exactly the issues and what would solve them other than I know something is wrong. I just get more confused the more I think about it. Does Kurisu even ever die? In the first episode before everything, you can hear Okabe's scream meaning a 2nd Okabe is already there in the past. Doesn't that mean that the only way Kurisu ever died in any timeline was because Okabe accidentally killed her? So why does Okabe ever have to return to the past to reach Steins;Gate? Hasn't the timeline just always been Steins;Gate? So, the only reason he ever finds her in a pool of blood was because saving her would mean Mayuri's death, but he would never have to save her if she never dies. Ugh, I don't get it...
Well I feel like this goes back to 0 okabe. The okabe we hear scream in the beginning is 0 okabe who fails to save kurisu thus we follow omabe 1. But then that goes back to the point of the video of what happens woth okabe 2 and potentially 3, 4, 5 and so on
the first okabe is okabe 0. so this whole, plan of deceive yourself hasn't happened yet. the next okabe is okabe 1, which goes back again and actually saves kurisu. now problem is, unlike how okabe 0 passes the torch to the next one, that doesn't happen with okabe 1. on a technical level, in the next generation, which is okabe 2s, when he reaches ep 22, he should realize that kurisu is alive, and suzuha should have no reason to come back since WW3 has already been stopped. problem is, the show just forgets about okabe 2 for some reason.
I've been thinking for hours how i can make it make sense but it also don't make sense when i try to make it make sense. I've been typing sentences after sentences turning my thoughts into words. In the end it's like solving a paradox. Might have to think about this more. Very interesting to solve.
Throw out the Divergence Meter and the Attractor Field theory. Both of these are theoretical. Divergence Meter shows the percentage or the position of what worldline Okabe is in and only he can observe it. Attractor Field theory is the infinite number of worldlines that could exist. Don't think about this. Now think about the number of times Okabe sent D-Mails. Everytime he succesfully changed the past, his Reading Steiner activates. For what does his Reading Steiner activates? To adapt to the change of the world being rebuilt. Instead of thinking about how Okabe jumps from one worldline to another, I propose that the entire world itself is rebuilt to adapt to the change of the causality. In other words, the Reading Steiner is the ability to observe the change of the world. Logically, everyone including Okabe should not be able to observe the change of the world but in this story, he has the ability to observes it and therefore remembers. Imagine a scenario if Okabe1 met Okabe2. What would happen? Would the entire world collapse or will it adapt by letting there be 2 Okabe in the same worldline? I'd say the latter. But doing so will cause Okabe to move to a different worldline. This can be undone by going back in time with the time machine. This is also perhaps the reason why Okabe0 and Suzuha was able to send Okabe1 to the past. The mistake can be undone. Now back to the problem. In the story, it is implied that Suzuha and the Time Machine disappears while Okabe got hospitalized for a month. During that time, he managed to get the badge to be made probably thanks to Daru. He thought that Kurisu might have gone back to America but she still is in Japan. Well she never went back to America in the first place because of the issue with her dad. Back to topic, As they try to go back to the future, the world rebuilts and at the same time Okabe's Reading Steiner activates. Suzuha and the Time Machine disappears and suddenly Okabe comes to himself in a hospital. The entire world was rebuilt to adapt to the causality and the new convergence, which caused Suzuha and the Time Machine cease to exist. To rephrase it, Suzuha and the Time Machine disappearance and Okabe ending up in hospital was the result of the world being rebuilt. The past was changed but not the way we saw it. The world itself was rebuilt to fit the cause and effect. In this newly built world, there is no Okabe2 to observe Kurisu's death. It is now a world with a history of Okabe pulling a plastic upa and saving Kurisu from being killed. In the story, it was shown number of times where Okabe comes to himself in a different place than where he initially was or when the IBN 5100 disappeared after Moeka's D-Mail which implies a change in causality and effect. The same thing happened when Okabe went back to the future. The world is rebuilt, Okabe observes the changes and comes to himself in a hospital. The world is rebuilt when a causality from the past is changed. But why does the world did not rebuilt after Okabe successfully saved Kurisu and keeping the metal upa? Why does it rebuilt only when they are going back to the future? Unlike D-Mail where Okabe's Reading Steiner instantly activates and the effect of changed causality can be instantly noticed because *he's in the future of the unknown past of which has been changed*. By successfully saving Kurisu and taking away the Metal Upa, the future has become different. As Okabe arrives to the future, the world rebuilds itself to cut off any paradox and create the most fitting causality that would produce the effect or the outcome of where Kurisu lives and Time Machine is no longer being developed. I kept getting confused writing all this. Compare this paragraph to any time where Okabe shifted into another worldline and perhaps it would make sense. In conclusion, Okabe's ability Reading Steiner is actually the ability to observe the world, and being able to remember previous world he was in is just something that comes together. Suzuha and the Time Machine disappearances are caused by the world being rebuilt as they go to the future with changed causalities. This forces the world to rebuild itself to create similar causality in order to produce the effect of where Kurisu survives and Time Machine never being developed without carrying any paradoxes which is in this case, the existence of Beta Suzuha, Time Machine and the 2 Okabe in the same time period.
@@JackyyChan the disappearance of suzuha and time machine and the activation of okabe's reading steiner. well i made it made sense to me to basically "okabe reading steiner activated" + "reading steiner is not what you think it is".
If you wait until the release of anonymous;code, they introduce the concept of world layer (basically a simulation) and it was stated that steins;gate is in a world layer below anonymous;code. In other words, all the events in steins;gate was a just a simulation. Therefore, Okabe disappearing in the movie or in the steins gate timeline can be described as a bug from the perspective of anonymous;code.
Steins;Gate is in the same layer as Anonymous;Code. Well, and above and below too, the layers dont seem to fluctuate very much between each other, only when far apart they probably do
I feel like something is amiss in this explanation but it's been more than a year since I last watched steins;gate so idk. Maybe I will comment what made me feel like this after rewatching it again.
i dont see why suzuha disappears. they should travel together from the same worldline out of the same time machine, and the suzuha of the new worldline never comes back to the past to meet them so theres just 1 suzu.
@@APolygons2 yeah sure they could meet if she waited long enough, but in the comment i said "and the suzuha of the new worldline *never comes back to the past* to meet them"
I believe this could be fixed with lines from Suzuha instead. A Line such as, My Existence isnt Permitted at least in this form in the stines gate worldline Unlike you Okabe, Your Mental Ability to adjust to different world lines with preserved memories means your History won't be Rejected By Stiens Gate. Followed By, See you in 8 years in whatever form i end up taking. As stiens gate Rejects the Existence of the Strong warrior suzuha based on the fact of she doesnt exist in the future in this form and as such Doesn't have a Reference point in the stines Gate Worldline to anchor himself around
Specifically Okabe 2s perception of The death of kurisu causes him to send the text to Daru Kickstarting him into the loop of history that Okabe 1 went through and due to the matching they effectively Collapse into a single wave Function as just Okabe rather then Diverging (and if the message only works 2 times in the period of kurisus death then 0 Gets Looped in as well but self Erases when an Okabe Trapped in the cycle Reaches Stine's Gate And Ultimately due to compatibility with Okabes timeline collapse into 1 consciousness rather then being Effectively pushed out of Stine's gate which because the Okabe in the Stine's gate worldlines perception is kurisu is dead leading him to Text Daru and time traveling to the Alpha Attractor field
I was thinking about another mistake, if we think about it, Okabe tried 2 times to save Kurisu, and the first one was a failure, so, how does he come back again, without finding another himself? let me explain better, it is as if they had totally canceled the first failure, right? imagine how complex it would have been if there had been as many as 3 Okabe in the building on the second attempt to salve Kurisu
that happened because the act of going back a second time changed the timeline. the first time okabe 1 was technically still okabe 0 and was in the same timeline. but since the 2nd time was a new thing that hadn't happened, it would be in a new timeline. which is why the other okabe wasn't there.
Reading this comments is hilarious. Stein's gate was one of my first animes like 2 years ago, so I don't remember a lot. I thought I had a grasp from the story still though. But now I think I know less about the series than before I entered to this video Edit: I had an introspective stein's gate night plus one friend explained me the SG timelines. Now I get it. Okabe 1 replacing okabe 2 in the Stein's Gate timeline makes no sense. Your true ending is also much better. Great video
the ending is absolute nightmare, the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets. I will have to make a new video actually going through everything, since this one is both rushed, and has an error in it.
@@fromant65 The fact that suzuha's disappearing logic is also flawed. so while the problem of okabe 2 being unpresented stands, what happens to okabe 1 is not "disappearing". He would probably have to go to some random timeline like how mayuri and suzuha did in 0 to not meet their past self. he would have to do the same to not meet with okabe 2.
The only thing that bothers me in Steins;Gate is that they "defrag" terabytes of data in a black hole into a few dozen bytes. None of that is even comprehensible jargon, let alone possible. Even being extremely generous and replacing "data compression" with time dilation to instead solve a transfer rate and window-of-opportunity problem with the Kerr black hole, their timing would have to be so perfect and precise, and they'd probably require an extremely long time both sending and receiving the data before and after the transfer.
the thing about writing about science concepts that don't exist yet like time travel is, it doesn't have to fully make sense. It just needs to be close enough to be somewhat believable. most shows don't even get that far, on the grand scheme of things, steins;gate is actually on the high end of well researched sci-fi shows. the concepts aren't as fleshed out as something like primer, but the time travel is a lot more exiting for it. so I Actually think SG has the perfect balance when it comes to it's accuracy in science.
@@APolygons2 True. I suppose I know so little about physics that I can accept the nonsensical physics concept without knowing any better. But I know a lot about computer science, and that particular concept seems way less researched from what I could tell.
I think you’re confused with the show’s concept of time travel. So what you think is that there’s Okabe 1 and 2 and whatnot -> there’s only one Okabe in the grand scheme of the entire timeline EVEN if there are multiple Okabe’s existing at the same time (yes hold on now). The way time works in the show is that there’s no “remove reason for existing” paradoxes. In the VN I believe it’s briefly explained that such encounters have happened before when the other nations were experimenting with time travel and that it induces headaches for the parties involved. The reason why the paradox doesn’t exist = all the events that happened in the previously timeline DON’T GET ERASED. If you were to think of time as a loop and questioned stuff like how X must exist now in this world if he killed his father before he was born is simply that the events of X being born in the previous timeline would still be recorded in the loop and X time-travelling in itself is also a loop. The process is entirely deterministic - it’s fated to happen (the act of time-travelling IS part of the loop) and is known to us as “the choice of Steins;Gate”. Time travel itself isn’t actually parallel - it’s all still in one straight deterministic line in the end, but obviously it’ll get a bit too complex for the viewer if they tried to explain it more accurately like “we’re gonna time travel exactly where we are right now in the deterministic point in the grand scheme of the timeline but from our relativity = going back to the past”. Some people have also questioned why Okabe didn’t just simply save Kurisu directly instead of letting himself have to see her in a pool of blood. He COULD have let that happen, but there’s a point where Okabe had explained that he wants himself to remember all he had to go through in the d-RINE-mail - if he were to let that happen, then when the Reading;Steiner activates, ALL his memories of the Alpha worldline would get erased. He doesn’t want that to happen. He wants it such that his future (but relatively past) self would remember all the fun memories + all the hard work he did in the Alpha worldline, because those events were very real to him. If he let that happen, it’s not like the events of the Alpha wordline would not have happened, just that future = relative past Okabe wouldn’t be able to remember them. Then there’s also the wonky issue with convergence theory that Okabe is FATED to see Kurisu lying in a pool of blood, but we don’t really know for sure if that holds true because Okabe had only tried to save her twice (small sample size issue) whereas we know for sure Mayuri’s death was a convergence point because he’s tried over 1000+ times, so the former theory of him wanting to retain all the memories of Alpha worldline seems more probable. The sad thing though is that in S;G worldline, Okabe would NOT remember the trauma and hardwork he’d done in the S;G 0 worldline. There’s also three probable endings that were unexplained at the end of S;G 0 (left to viewer interpretation perhaps). 1. Okabe saves Mayuri and Suzuha from distant past. Okabe brings them back to his present time just right after he left to go look for them via either an upgrade to his time-machine having three seats instead of two -> or fix their time-machine and brought spare fuel so they can time-travel back to “present” and he can time-travel back as well via his own machine (which still has fuel). The lab members can have a teary reunion after a long long long time of not seeing each other ever since rooftop bazooka incident. They then send the RINE videos to revive Hououin Kyouma + give intel on the metal upa being critical. Now we see Okabe Steins;Gate worldline POV in 2010 but if this were to happen then come 2025 S;G Okabe would have his memories overwritten by S;G 0 memories, and you’d have to pray Maho and Kurisu perfected and advanced their neuroscience research doing “save points” so that even if Okabe memories were overridden - they can merge it together so he can now remember both S;G and S;G 0 memories and maybe he can tell them all the stories that actually happened for them to get to this worldline. Some may say 2025 S;G 0 Okabe is meant to die and that’s why he has to disappear from the timeline but the moment they send that RINE to the past his supposed death won’t matter bc we’d be in S;G worldline already bypassing that convergence. 2. Same as above except Okabe stays behind in the distant past while Mayuri and Suzuha board the ship he used to get there to safely return to “present”. After Mayuri and Suzuha return to the present -> they send the RINE messages. This theory is meant to satisfy the thought that Okabe should disappear from 2025 timeline effectively “killing” him. This one doesn’t make much sense to me because of the last sentence in theory 1 + I highly doubt Mayuri would let Okabe die all alone in the distant past. 3. Same as before except Okabe still goes back to the present with Mayuri and Suzuha and time-travels again to a nearby-past (can’t go too far back because butterfly effects get worse the longer a change in the past goes on - don’t want drastic changes in the past because same reasons for wanting to remember Alpha worldline, maybe 1960s or smth) and bing chilling there like what granny Suzuha did in Alpha wordline when she lost her memories. This would satisfy the 2025 Okabe must disappear to bypass death theory. Issue with this ending would be that it’ll be sad bc S;G Okabe wouldn’t remember all the effort he had to go through in S;G 0 worldline because there’s no 2025 S;G 0 Okabe to activate his Reading;Steiner from.
Ok I pretty much knew all that. When I said okabe 0, 1 and 2, I meant versions of okabe that would have different memories. okabe 0 would have a different history from okabe 1, made by the impact of okabe 0 sending a message to the past which changed the time line. when I said a "different okabe" I just meant the next generation that was impacted by the one before it. just as you said, even though only one timeline exists at a time, the previous ones can still have an effect on the active timeline. so I was explaining it in a way that, when X timeline changes the past and creates a new timeline, a new okabe is created, since he would experience different things from the previous version. so okabe 1 would be different because he would go back a second time to save kurisu, which was made possible by okabe 0 message. and okabe 2 should have figured out that kurisu is alive after the ep22 events of him going back to his original timeline, which is thanks to okabe 1 saving kurisu and stopping WW3 in this timeline. So, just it's the exact same case as okabe 0, with the only difference being that unlike okabe 0, okabe 1 doesn't fuck off into space. which leaves room for the argument of him replacing okabe 2's body with reading steiner, but the fact that he has a stab wound breaks that theory. which means okabe 2 is missing. Just imagine the full story from the POV of the okabe we see in ep 24 and you'll start to see what I'm talking about. the active timeline was his, the steins;gate was his timeline, yet he is nowhere to be seen. it's like if okabe 0 changed the past by time travel, instead of the video D-mail thing, came back to the future, and okabe 1 didn't exist.
@@APolygons2 Okabe 2 doesn't actually go mia. Okabe 1 memories R;S into Okabe 2 as you said, because when Okabe 1 saved Kurisu, she saw him get stabbed and thus the world needs to preserve that observed event. Seeing an Okabe getting stabbed now becomes a convergence event because of Kurisu seeing that. Much like Okabe tricking himself to see that Kurisu was killed, Kurisu is also tricked into seeing that an Okabe was stabbed. The world then reconstructs itself for that convergence to happen and Okabe 2 actually does get stabbed -> but he doesn't remember how he actually got stabbed (muggers for example) because by the time he woke up in the hospital, R;S had activated and he only remembers Okabe 1's events. Reasons why Suzuha might have said we need to get you to the hospital is that she doesn't have full understanding of time-travel since she's just a young soldier. Now this begs the question for where Okabe 1 fucked off to - maybe he'd gone back to the same exact timeline where Kurisu was still dead except because now she actually isn't - while the timemachine is in the process of travelling back he disappears into thin air along with Suzuha and the time machine the moment the clock ticks past convergence event = Nakabachi's papers burning up, and at the same time R;S-ing his consciousness into sleeping Okabe 2 (R;S trigger when papers burn up). Whereas Okabe 0 time travelling back to 2025 with Mayuri is completely fine because they hadn't sent the RINE yet + no observer could record Mayuri and co in distant past so just like in Loki they're pretty much hidden in the timeline (we assume here whatever rocks they moved in distant past weren't significant enough at least for 10000 years ish to change present events Okabe 0 had experienced)
Adding to this just to clear up confusion: - R;S only activates when the worldline changes significantly enough. This is why Okabe 0 can go to the distant past to look for Mayuri and go back to the present because this wasn't a significant enough event to alter history. - Dr Nakabachi's papers burning up is the real significant change in history, not seeing Kurisu "die". Therefore it is possible for Okabe 1 to coexist in a worldline with Okabe 2 IF he didn't hop back into the time-machine to try and travel forward in time where the world lines have already diverged significantly enough to activate R;S (papers burning up).
@@barreltitor1419 that is a completely valid argument, and it could very well be an explanation. I can't take it for fact since the show doesn't dive into it, but it does make sense. what you wrote actually made me think of something. what would happen, if okabe 1 stayed for a little longer, and was there when okabe 2 sends the d-mail. how would reading steiner work if there are 2 okabes? I feel like that would be an extremely interesting concept. if the show ever gets another entry, I hope they dive into it.
@@APolygons2 very cool idea! I'd assume both Okabes would continue to coexist and both their R;S would get activated once the D-mail gets sent if we were to follow the existing time travel rules, since R;S is really just remembering the events from the prev worldline and isn't exclusive to anybody (it doesn't have priority queue or whatever it kind of runs parallel in everyone just that Okabe has the strongest ability). Except maybe if that were to happen, it might not necessarily be the alpha worldline anymore. SERN learns the existence of time-travel via D-mail and maybe someone eventually figures out that there are 2 Okabes and take interest and connect the dots and lead to a different outcome in the future. If you haven't already, try watching the drama-CD play throughs! They're set in alternative (non-canon) worldlines such as Beta, Gamma, etc :-) It's like Steins;Gate what if episodes like what if Okabe = a rounder
the one 0, 1, 2 is just based on the events they go through. it makes it easier to explain. okabe 0, is okabe when he goes through the events of steings;gate 0. okabe 1 is when he goes back a second time to save kurisu. and okabe 2 is the one after okabe 1, and lives in the timeline where kurisu was saved by okabe 1. so when he reaches the ep 22 part of the story and saves mayuri, he realizes that kurisu is actually alive, and suzuha never comes back since WW3 has already been stopped. again, only one time line exists at a time, but the 1 time line changes through out the story. and the numbers are just there to indicate that.
I don't get it, how is this any different from what happens in the show? Okabe, Kurisu and Mayuri all survive in the Steins;Gate worldline, so... isn't that just the same?
well yes and no. they still would all be alive, it's just that a different version of them would be the ones reach who steins;gate. like. what happened to the cast of steins;gate 0? imagine that. but it happens twice. once to okabe 0, and once to okabe 1.
Okabe 1 & 2 are the same okabe, we know this because we hear him scream at the beginning of the show, that is why he went to check out the murder in the first place, his text about the murder pushes him out of steins;gate causing him to go through the whole show
that is not true. the simplest proof for it is the plastic upa, if they were the exact same, with the same memories, the upa in ep1 would also be plastic instead of metal. those 2 being different, means the 2 okabes have different memories. hence they are different.
I have been trying to understand the paradox you suggest and I will try to answer it. However, I may have misunderstood what you are saying, so please correct me if i am wrong. Suzuha disappears because she eliminated the reason she boarded the time machine and is paradoxical in the sg world line. Okabe1 should also disappear in a similar way if he caused Okabe2 to never send the first d-mail to daru. Okabe1 does not disappear because the events of the original steins gate will still commence (Okabe sends the d-mail that provokes ww3, causing the story of s;g and making suzuha exist, before confirming whether Kurisu is alive or dead). Thus Okabe2 will still leap into the worldline where Kurisu is spared by the time machine crashing into the conference building, regardless of whether she was alive when he found her. NOTES: It is impossible to assume that okabe0 perishes when okabe1 saves kurisu. I believe that is just a fan theory to make s;g0 a little less depressing. Some people even claim that Suzuha does not just disappear, but uses the remaining fuel in the time-machine to travel to a random era (this is a viable option as expressed in s;g0) If this is true, then suzuha is merely sacrificing herself to protect the s;g worldline and tells a lie to okabe to keep him from feeling guilty. (This is very plausible to me because suzuha has a knack for self-sacrifice when she her mission is over) I believe there is no basis for people not being able to meet their past selves. Surely seeing your past self would cause uncontrollable future, similar to how an experiment done without control is inconclusive. I believe suzuha is not omniscient, this comment was an error (possibly a white lie or caution told to her by okabe0 to keep her exploits consistent) , so she cautions okabe to avoid self interaction as it causes another split in the worldline which can have uncontrollable outcome, and possibly (probably) make the mission unsuccessful. Here is a theory I found on SE that seems to answer your question in a much more completely and comprehensively than my ramblings. anime.stackexchange.com/questions/31484/why-does-suzuha-disappear-when-travelling-back-to-the-present?answertab=createdasc#tab-top
well here's the thing. while yes okabe 2 will still go through everything that okabe 1 did go though due to him still thinking kurisu is dead, the whole: "going back in time to save kurisu thing" will never happen for okabe 2. simply because the WW3 has already been stopped in his original timeline by okabe 1, so suzuha will never see okabe 2 with the goal of stopping the future. now about the suzuha disappearing thing being a lie, that is indeed very possible and would explain why okabe doesn't disappear. but there is 1 last problem. even if okabe can meet his past self, okabe 1 is from a different time line. so on a technical level, where he lands at the end IS okabe 2s' time line, steins;gate. so mayuri and daru shouldn't be waiting for him. it should be another timeline, with another okabe, another daru and another mayuri. my point which I didn't explain well in the video, was that okabe 2 is the one who is originally from the sg timeline, with the difference that he never has to go back to save kurisu. so if we assume that what suzuha says about disappearing is BS, there are 2 ways the show can end. 1. he goes off to a different timeline, to not meet his other self, just like how mayuri and suzuha had to do that at the end of 0. 2. the "not being able to meet yourself" is also somehow bs and now we have 2 okabes in the same timeline.
@@APolygons2 "so mayuri and daru shouldn't be waiting for him. it should be another timeline, with another okabe, another daru and another mayuri. " This I feel is fundamental to the paradox you have found. I will (in the spirit of discussion) try to disprove it. Importantly, when Okabe returns from his first attempt to save kurisu, but fails to either save her or destroy the ww3 papers, he trys to return to the present, he is greeted by mayuri and daru just like your comment. However, when okabe returns after successfully saving kurisu, we explicitly DO NOT witness the time machine landing and okabe meeting daru and mayuri the second time in the show (it cuts straight to him in the hospital.) theory 1. I believe the show writers knew about this possible paradox beforehand and purposefully imply that when okabe returns for the second time, the watcher can imagine that he finds nobody waiting for him atop the radio tower. He admits himself to the hospital and all is well. I think I understand your paradox a little more now: if okabe returns to the same worldline that he left from (kurisu dead), which only makes sense because it is where he it is the only worldline that he is missing from and is the one he returns to the first time, then if okabe saves kurisu, then the act of returning to that same worldline would cause him to land in a world where there would be an different okabe (who is pleasently suprised) to find that reverting the last d-mail does not actually kill kurisu like be believed and would never take a time machine into the past to save her. theory 2. The second theory is that when we see the scene fade cuts from suzuhas final farewell to the hospital, we see okabe kinda disappear as well. The time machine, suzuha, and okabe all kinda disappear at the same time. Okabe then has a reading steiner moment (like the original d-mails but not the memory compression device) that merges the time-machine okabe with the pleasently-suprised-kurisu-not-dead okabe like has happened so many times in the past. (like how telling your past self lottery ticket numbers will teleport you to a different worldline but overwrite the memories so that you cannot remember buying the lottery ticket). This overwrite mechanic explains why okabe does not remember being suprised that kurisu is not actually dead, but can still remember travelling in the time machine. With the disappearece of suzuha, the time machine disappears too, and okabe is instead trasported via reading steiner. THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS A STAB WOUND, so in a way, you are totally right. If you disregard the hospital scene (maybe one minute), i think everything is consistent. You can also believe that okabe managed to get a stab wound someway else due to convergence (like how mayuri always dies, even if you perfectly prevent it). Otherwise you can refer to theory 1. Also, if you havent done so already, read the SE link because it is also quite convincing imo.
@@APolygons2 if Suzuha doesn't come to stop WW2 she'll still come to stop the future tyranny rule of Sern in the alpha attractor field where Mayuri dies every time which leads to the events in the first half of the anime . also the movie is so wrong except for Moeka's end Nae flashback that got changed in the anime, it's full of bs non cannon there can only be 1 worldline at a time in a said world maybe there can be parallel worlds but not in the way the worldlines are introduced in the VN/Anime for the most part* it's like a disk there can only be 1 💿 at a time many viewers often confused different worldlines when everytime Okabe jumps between them to parallel worlds which is not the case. when Okabe tricked his other him *Do note the difference between time travel and time-leap For time-leap, Okabe simply turns back time. For time travel, the Okabe disappears from the "present" and appears in the "past" of the same running worldline This means that there are two "Okabe"s in the "past", one that is supposed to exist on that time in same world line basically the past self of him as the worldine history dictates and the other that has time travelled back to the past from the future of the same worldine. Having said so, should the time-travelling Okabe come into contact with the original Okabe, a time paradox would occur. It is not clear what a time paradox would entail; Suzuha only describes it as “dangerous”. . As for 0 Okabe his counsciousness didn't synchronize with our Okabe since RS didn't meet the conditions he was outside the time period travelling back to save suzuha and mayurui to fullfill the requirements of S;G
@@M-yue882 I'm going to be honest I didn't read the past the few lines because you got a major thing wrong from the start, and I already know the movie makes 0 sense, so I don't really need convincing on that. "future tyranny" only happens in the alpha worldline. the one that mayuri gets killed in. meaning suzuha won't come back for that either. the whole point of the steins;gate timeline is that, it's the timeline where none of those tragic futures happen. it's where both mayuri and kurisu live. that was the whole point. if the "future tyranny" still happened, then what was all that tragedies and sacrifices for?
@@APolygons2 i think we both got a misunderstanding on each other's replies maybe? i mean i did mention in my comment itself how alpha worldline is where mayuri dies and all that happens i know very well that Steins;Gate is the queer case from the > 1% worldlines in which the negative peculiarities from the usual beta and alpha atttractor field wordlines cancels each other without being overly different e.g Okabe has still to see Kurisu covered in blood mhm i forgot what was your point the one i was specifically replying to i have to reread this section again lol
I think we are all missing the point time is not linear there multiple possible that exists so at the end when we that okabe reached steins gate and had an happy ending doesn't meant everything played out well the other parallel time line still exists where Mayuri dies and another where makise dies they still exists at the end what we say is the ending of the original okabe from season 1 of steins gate helped by the okabe from steins gate 0 which help change the future and save both of them but that doesn't mean the alpha and beta timeline seize to exists they still exist and so does the okabe of that respective time lines
in steins;gate only one timeline exists at any given time, everything else is just "possiblities" think of the how the okabe 0 message only activated when he existed in the future. or how when farris or ruka remember the last timeline, they only remember that specific one before the shift.
I think the reality of it is even darker. Nobody ceased to exist. No timelines got erased, because that's not how time works. He simply moved between timelines, strictly through memory transfer at first, but physically with the bigger machine. Okabe 0 remains in his timeline, possibly believing his plan failed, because what happened for him already happened. And there's more than Okabe 1 and 2 in the show, every time the device is used a new timeline is made. One where he has the memories of an Okabe from another timeline. Every death that occurred did so in its own timeline, unerased. Every traumatized Okabe remains, questioning why they continue to exist in that timeline after using the device. The only plot hole, in my opinion, was having someone be "erased" at all. But I chalked that up to some quirk of the machine itself rather than being a misunderstanding of the physics of time.
The show states almost explicitly that there is only one timeline, I'm pretty sure. Time travel in steins gate is essentially like resetting a chessboard. The universe is reordered around the changes that were made. The old timeline becomes a distant inaccessible past and the new timeline becomes 'active'. So what actually happens is when someone alters time in steins gate, everything in the universe is instantly destroyed and remade to reflect the changes. It's still pretty dark but it's not multiverse.
@@skyfox585 I had to look that up because that's not what I remember, but that is one theory that is suggested. Okabe also states the possibility of the multi-verse theory early on and there's even imagery showing how paralel timelines would exist and how one could travel from one timeline to another. That's one of the things I liked most about the anime as it is, I believe, the most likely case if time travel were ever to be possible. The multiverse theory effectively eliminates most if not all paradox possibilities by keeping the time traveler as a separate entity from that timeline's history and future. So the grandfather paradox isn't possible because your relation to your grandfather would remain unchanged regardless of what happens to your grandfather in the new timeline if you were to travel there. But I digress. One of the really cool things about the anime and the manga is that it touches on multiple theoretical possibilities, showing that there was some meticulous research in creating the series. The idea of the active timeline, as I understand it, is similar to schrodinger's cat. The active timeline is the "only active" timeline because it is the only one the observers are capable of observing. In this case, the "observer" being Okabe and the other time traveling characters followed by the viewers of the series (us). However, there are a few problems with the idea that the universe itself is what's moving. Namely there is no way their device has enough power to rearrange the entire universe and such a theory would, or at least should, eliminate the apparent problem with fixed moments in time such as Shiina's reoccuring death. That said, I think one of the cool things about the anime is that it proposes answers without settling on the question. Time travel happens, but how is explained with possible explanations instead of a definite "this is the way, the only way, so this is how it works." Which means it could be a case of one active timeline and the others are merely theoretical, it could be that there is a multiverse with observers observing no change in the "inactive" timelines, or there could be another explanation for what's happening. One of the best parts of the anime, in my opinion, is the fun scientific and philosophical discussions it can lead to.
the thing is that only 1 timeline exists or is active at any given time. think about how other charactets could experience reading steiner while having the memories of both timelines. or how the message okabe 0 send to okabe 1 only activated when he existed the future. neither of these would make sense if all the timelines actually existed, all the time.
@@APolygons2 I think I addressed that in my reply to HussyProductions. One active timeline in the same sense as Schrodinger's Cat being both alive and dead. Only one can be observed at a time. If the others were truly and objectively inactive, having multiple time travelers such as Suzuha and Okabe existing simultaneously also wouldn't make sense since she'd have to have come from a timeline that wasn't "active" at any point. Except it was active for her, because that's the one she was observing. So it appears the unobserved timelines are in fact still active, but it could still be argued that deviations from the timelines are inactive until activated through the deviation, that meaning time travel. Once activated though, we also have no evidence to suggest the timeline would deactive upon activating a new timeline. Hence my first comment regarding how dark the anime appears when considering the multiverse theory.
What if Okabe's destiny was to get in a coma not only in 2025 but also in other timelines and (not every but) multiple times his empty body was destined to be re-filled with past memories from the time jumps, and then more than one of them eventually managed to actually use the time machine offscreen instead of just the one we were shown at the very end of 0?
don't worry, I was not that clear with the explanation since I originally rushed out the script. which if you couldn't tell from the sheer amount of long comments I have had to answer, was a very poor decision.
It’s probably because of Okabe’s reading steiner ability. There’s probably more to his ability than what’s explicitly said. It probably allows him to exist after a timeline completely shifts along with him retaining memories
Okabe1 put in motion this Makise's death mystification to trick Okabe2 BUT Okabe2 will be doing something and no one knows what will be the outcome. I was persuaded that Okabe1 was sure, that he has some unspecified amount of "borrowed time" to do whatever he wants since no one really knows what events (or what perception of the events) is really a core of the "attractor field"). It was, probably wise for Okabe1, to time-travel far to the past or future, not to mess with any story bits around 2000-2030. That was my understanding of the twist watching it the first time.
the problem is that, once okabe 1 triggers the steins;gate timeline, and goes back to the future, the timeline should be okabe 2's timeline. meaning he either has to leave (like the 0 okabe), or we will have 2 okabes in the same timeline. the problem is, okabe 2 just doesn't exists in the future for some reason. the writers kind of ignored him and most people did the same. and that's besides the fact that as many people pointed out, suzuga disappearing doesn't make sense either.
@@APolygons2 the issues are: 1. Anime did not show the date chosen by Suzuha and Okabe1 (stabbed and in a need of hospital) :D Mayuri was trying to bring flowers to the hospital but he was not there. It could not be Okabe2 as he was only traumatised by what he saw. 2. I had this interpretation that Okabe1 will go to whatever timeline (not important) just to cure himself and that he can always go back to check if everything is alright, give lab-member batches and cheer himself, knowing that Okabe2 is fighting with all the problem we saw in S1E1-22, as those have to happen... 3. I could not exclude the possibility that it was Okabe1 giving lab-member badges. Mayuri was always late and could not catch him in this act. Okabe1 interacts only with people who did not interact with Okabe2 this day. Maybe the day was chosen on purpose so they don't meet. Okabe1 also tried to avoid those who might ask questions e.g. due to a lack of understanding of issues... I like Mayuri but she will be qualified here. 4. I already accepted the idea that 2 Okabes can coexist in one period of time, at least for a time needed to check the outcomes of all crucial actions taken, delay something or change in a meaningless manner. E.g. Mayuri's death can be shifted to a different day, but not avoided in S1. I also have this idea that Okabe, after all those time-travels and with all 'Deja Vu' loaded is not in danger to met his second version. He will be like "Hey me! I knew that it was possible!". Suzuha might disappear much quicker, cause "stopping WW3 as she knows it", was probably much easier to resolve than other events that they suspect of being the "core" of the attraction field. Okabe did some precautions to stop WW3 and she has knowledge about it, so she quickly become no longer needed... 5. Ergo, I was probably using imagination to cover the plot holes by myself... I started this when "Steins;Gate 0" shows us a redheaded girl with blue eyes and memory problems... in Japan. That was a plot hole :D
people being erased from spacetime only applies in "linear" time travel (back to the future, marty starting to disappear during the dance) but since steins;gate is a world line time travel, as in multiple parallels there's no reason for okabe to disappear. reading steiner only activates with d-mail and mindleap because he's essentially altering his past to change the future world line he'd end up in, hence why his consciousness doesn't just switch after the stab and saving kurisu. my take on it, anyways.
Plot holes are pretty much inevitable in time travel stories unless the time travel is read-only (like in A Christmas Carol). The second you are able to modify the past in a way that affects the future, you have a grandfather paradox because your reason for time travel is erased by having made the modification. The effect precedes the cause, which is logically inconsistent. People usually try to write around this with: * multiverses (your change splits the future in two) * predestination (the universe contrives events in such a way that nullifies your change, which doesn't make sense when you think about it because that implies that the universe can read the actor's mind and tell what their end goal was) * butterfly effect (something you do causes accidental and unanticipated changes which avoids one type of grandfather paradox by making it dangerous to meddle) But no solution is bulletproof. That said, I love SG and how it makes use of several time travel tropes and types. A bit of predestination (or possibly butterfly since it's implied that all the dmail meddling is what got them in that rut) here by forcing Mayuri to die, a bit of multiverse there with the whole "world line" thing, Starting small by just sending small packets of information back in time (proxy time travel, which is a term I made up on the spot just now), then progressing to an entire mind (temporal time travel), and then a human body (physical time travel).
absolutely... despite this steins;gate is still my favorite anime and time travel story. i actually think the way sg went about saying grand father paradoxes don't exist was a huge reason for why the time travel worked so seemlessly. if a shows' only plot hole needs 4 rewatches, and still has hundreds of comments arguing it even being real, the show is doing something right. the only super complex time travel story that i know of that doesn't have a plot hole, is primer. but i think primer sucks in every area except time travel....
@@APolygons2 Yeah I personally found primer very boring. There are parts (mostly conceptual) that are interesting, but the actual execution is... not my favorite.
To my understanding the events in okabe 1's timeline only happens because okabe 2's actions exist. Firstly in stein's gate 0 it's been established that traveling to the past of a specific timeline is not possible because the act of traveling to that point branches that timeline off. So the time traveller will not cease to exist either way. From my understanding suzuha doesn't stop existing as while they travel back the final time the beta attractor field timeline that she set to reach was different from the timeline that okabe reached. The final stein's gate timeline that was reached could only be reached because of the time traveling shenanigans that happened in the show, and they reached the attractor field of kurisu ending up covered in blood. Thus for the events to happen okabe 2 and okabe 1 both needed to exist and since okabe 2's origin is from a different timeline he still exists. Another proof of this is that we find out in the movie and the end of the show that people retain memories of other timelines in the form of Deja Vu, which indicates that all the events that transpired is shared and exists in the timestream
I mean that does make sense since Okabe 1 doesn't remember events of Steins:Gate 0 (World war 3, professor Lenskin etc.) meaning that Okabe 1 shouldn't be able to replace Okabe 2
ignore zero, it's crap, it's not needed. let's think only about the original series. there are three Okabes: 1: the one that sees Kurisu dead and hears the scream 2: the one that in episode 23 goes back to episode 1 and accidentally kills Kurisu 3: the one that goes back a second time to fake Kurisu's death. if there's a plot hole is that there should be three Okabes running around in episode 1, but the second one is "erased" when Okabe 3 goes back to fake Kurisu's death. Okabe 3 takes Okabe 2's place. Some people have answered this to me saying that in the visual novel it's explained, it's something to do with the world lines, so Okabe 3 goes to a different word line from Okabe 2, so there are only two and not three at the same time. I wish the series made it more clear. If we ignore external materials like the visual novel and only watch the series, this could be a huge plot hole.
The anime of 0 has a LOT of problems. but from what I have heard the VN is only a little worse than the original. plus it's cannon, you can't really ignore it. and even if you do, the 0 okabe still exists in the original sg, you see him send okabe a message. 0 doesn't add this plot hole, it just makes a bit easier to explain/understand. but I can tell you that what you mentioned isn't a plot hole. when he goes back the first time, he creates the 0 timeline. because before he had done that, that future was technically not fully set in stone yet, which is why the message was glitched. but after the 0 timeline got triggered and he went back again, the timeline changes to something new. the second time he goes back, that's already a change that had not happened to the 0 okabe before, the timeline changes, which is why his previous version isn't there. to explain it in a short sentence, okabe 1 was okabe 0 until he got the call from his future. this is never explained in detail because it would just overcomplicate things, but it does check out with the rules the series has set. if you look at previous examples like suzuha going back to get the IBM 5100, you can see that this is how the time travel has always worked in steins;gate.
I think that what Okabe goes trough is a time loop. Okabe 0 has his path and Okabe 1 has his own. Then the Okabe 2 you mentioned sends the first d-mail like in ep.1 and jumps to an alpha timeline and becomes the same as Okabe 0. Suzuha and Okabe 1 in the ending would have to be seperated, because the Steins;Gate worldline can't have time machines or it would end up with WW3, but Okabe still has to exist in the Steins;Gate worldline. This is the timeloop of happines, as the reward in the end is worth all the pain.
Hear me out, I don't know if there are flaws in this argument, but please point out if you find any: Okabe 1 would cease to exist when Okabe 2 moves to Alpha. But why he went to the hospital if hes not Okabe 1? You ask. Because that's a convergence point in every Steins;Gate worldline (There are more than 1) (I don't know if there's a SG Worldline for every attractor field) Source: Worldline 1.049326χ This worldline appears during the Linear Bounded Phenogram story “Hermaphroditus in the Labyrinth”. Okabe lands on this worldline after going through all the events to save Mayuri after spending 3 extra days in the Alpha Attractor Field and Luka undoing her own D-Mail. The stability of this worldline is unknown. August 21, 2010: Okabe is brought to the hospital for an unknown unexpected wound Is it safe to say that the stab wound is a point of convergence in steins;gate timelines? There is a Steins;Gate worldline for Chi Attractor field where Okabe was misteriously stabbed, maybe the Steins;Gate Worldlines are connected and converge in Okabe's stab wound. That would make sense, or I am just wrong. Sorry for my English.
It is worth noting that Attractor Field X isn't the same as the Steins Gate. It is also unlikely that there is a Steins Gate for each attractor field. It is also worth noting that Okabe 1 doesn't cease to exist. Okabe 2 never makes it to Alpha, as there's only ever one active worldline (or rather, there's only ever one active worldline within any given world layer, but that's far beyond the scope of a Steins Gate only discussion). Okabe 1 also mentions that Reading Steiner never activated.
@@SeralyneYT Okabe 2 can still make it to Alpha without breaking the 1 active worldline at a time rule. Just the same way we saw our own Okabe do it. Beta becomes inactive, Alpha becomes active, Okabe 2 redoes everything until deleting the dmail, RS's to Beta (effectively reactivating an identical version from the one he left), leaves in the time machine with Suzuha (no change no shift), our Okabe 1 proceeds to arrive afterward. In theory if Okabe 1 accidentally influenced Okabe 2 to make different decisions in Alpha (and made him go down the Faris end route) then Okabe 1 would've never made it to the future because his worldline is gone, the active worldline staying forever on Omega with Okabe 2.
The ending you suggested would have been great, however....... i see the ending quite differently. First i want to point out that mayuri and suzuha cant stay in the past as mayuri has to adopt kagari in the future. what i believe happened is that mayuri and suzuha went back into the future without okabe, mayuri was dropped off at the original time she left and suzuha went back to a few minutes after the point were she left originally, at this point the world line is complete. as soon as this happens reading steiner activates for all 3 okabes as they all merge into the ocabe you see exiting the time machine at the end of the original steins gate. i believe this is the most satisfying ending as okabe 0 isn't lost to time, okabe 1 hasn't disappeared and okabe 2 isnt missing. no plot holes yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
apparently there are limit to characters you can type when commenting. Basically the understanding I got after looking at others' solutions is that the Steins Gate Worldline is a NEW worldline where Okabe got transported into after going back to the future. Suzuha and the Time Machine or basically everything disappears as Okabe Reading Steiner activates, transporting him into Steins Gate Worldline. This was the basis of the idea I had. The original explanation was much lengthy and it replaces the idea of Worldline and Attractor Field Theory. Because people get confuses with it.
How I understood the mechanics of time travel so far, also based on this vid and my headcanon (correct me if I understood incorrectly), I'm gonna dissect versions into multiple without considering the other timelines: 1. There can be only 1 ACTIVE WORLDLINE at a time, influenced by the other world lines, split from the active timeline. 2. We are witnessing different versions of Okabe (anime): > Beta Okabe (0.0) is the one who lived through majority of the Beta Timeline + Alpha Timeline, the Okabe that exist in the Amadeus plot. > Beta Okabe (0.1) is the one who exists in the Beta Timeline as the second Okabe who failed to save Kurisu. > Beta Okabe (1.0) is the Okabe that lived through half of Beta + all of Alpha Timeline + saved Kurisu. > Alpha Okabe (2.0) is the one in the SERN plot, Mayuri death timeline. > SteinsGate Okabe (3.0) is the Okabe of the SteinsGate timeline, the Okabe that saw Kurisu in Okabe 1.0's blood, the one who experienced half of Alpha + all of Beta Timeline + SteinsGate Timeline. > Main Okabe (M) is the Okabe of the viewer's perspective. 3. The first season displays the half of Beta Timeline, Okabe 0.1 attempting in the background and with Okabe 0.0 travelling to the Alpha Timeline via D-Mail (becomes 2.0), where Mayuri dies.
4. Okabe 2.0 undone things and saved Mayuri, thereby going back to the Beta Timeline as the active timeline.
5. Okabe 0.0 attempts to save Kurisu (as 0.1) but failed. He lives on in the Beta timeline after he gave up, as 0.0 after going back, until the war caused by Amadeus. In a few years, he sent a video to the past via Dmail to Okabe 0.1, explaining the correct formula to reach SteinsGate + Mayuri 0.0 and Suzuha 0.0 convincing Mayuri 0.1 to motivate Okabe 0.1, requiring him to fail once so that Okabe 0.0 would still exist. 6. The moment he decided to came back in time for the second time, he becomes Okabe 1.0, thereby saving Kurisu. Suzuha 1.0 ceased to exist, Okabe 1.0 becomes 3.0 (evident by the fact that he came from the hospital, implying that that was the Okabe who saved Kurisu) upon returning to the new active worldline (SteinsGate) at the same time point they almost left. His actions changed the active timeline to SteinsGate, a split from the Beta Timeline, where Suzuha 1.0 and Okabe 1.0 appeared on the ceiling from Beta Timeline as part of the new line and not their 0 counterpart. 7. The Okabe 3.0, who thought Kurisu died, sent a Dmail propelling him to Alpha Timeline (becoming 2.0). When he undid the changes he made, it propels him back to the Beta timeline (as 0.0), thereby closing the loop of causality. 8. One thing to note is that the versions of Okabe DOES NOT retain all memories through all circumstances, just Okabe M's perspective. His Reading Steiner ability overwrites the worldline Okabe his consciousness lands on. Sample is that he can't remember some details on how some events lead to the outcome of his dmail. 9. The notable ones are from 0.0, 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 Okabe, although Okabe 1.0 is the one able to exist as Okabe 3.0 because of his Reading Steiner ability, his ability to retain consciousness in the active timeline/worldline, overwriting each versions of himself whenever a past event is altered.
To some extent, you can remedy it by suggesting that as soon as the problem is fixed, we suddenly start viewing the "possible hypothetical" story as it would continue, if said world line stayed "current". For example in Zero, as soon as Okabe 0 sends that message back to ensure Okabe 1 tries again to save Kurisu, the worldline should shift and nothing after that point would become "realised". However, we see a bit more of the story after that point (he goes on the final mission to rescue his friends). We could suggest, as the audience, we are being allowed to see what *would* happen should that chronology continue to play out, even if the "true canon" of the story would shift away. To summarise, Okabe 1 ceases to be, assumedly, as soon as Kurisu's death is faked and Okabe 2 witnesses it. However, we are being allowed a glimpse into "Okabe 1's next few moments" in a strange hypothetical narrative. The ending in which Kurisu and Okabe pass one another in the street can manifest itself in Okabe 2's world; he finally shifts back into (what everyone assumes to be) the Beta attractor field after undoing his first D-Mail, only to accidentally pass Kurisu on the street, realising that she never died at all. Unbeknownst to him or anyone else but us, the audience, Okabe 0 and Okabe 1 ensured this outcome on his behalf. I hope this idea helps lend a different angle to the discussion. Great video, thank you for sharing!
Glad someone else picked up on this because it's been bugging me for years lol. Also, on a Doylist level, Load Region of Deja Vu makes way more sense when you realize it's just trying to be Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya with Steins Gate characters.
I had never really thought about it; but you're right lmao I need to rewatch disappearance, that movie was a god damn masterpiece in every way possible. Btw, If you can take a look and see any of my newer videos seem interesting to you. it kinda hurts than this less than half baked thing I made when I had just started has over 90% off my channel's entire view count lol
I think that when Okabe went to save Kurisu for the 2nd time, he did not change the timeline. He only tweaked the beta world line as the Steins gate worldline is doesn't actually exist its just something Okabe made up as an ultimate solution to everything. In the beta world line the point of convergence wasn't Kurisu dying but it was actually Okabe seeing Kurisu "dying" on the floor. Thats why future Okabe made it so that the Okabe in OG timeline must see Kurisu on the floor even though it was fake blood. In this way the point of convergence stays same and they don't change world lines. And since the world lines don't change there isn't an Okabe 2. Its just the Okabe of the beta world line returning to the beta world line just slightly tweaked so that it does not move to the alpha world line. Hope i explained my thought process properly.
I don't exactly understand how that relates to the okabe 2 thing, since what world line he is from doesn't make him not exist, but other wise, great observation, I see how it happened slightly differently, but I'm probably making it overcomplicated. oh also, as a youtuber, I am obligated to ask like and subscribe. or else a particularly angry looking gnome will eat my family. so. please like and subscribe!
"Only plot hole" I saw Steins; Gate as riddled with hundreds of smaller plot holes. That feeling when you use a literal black hole to compress discrete data into a smaller amount of discrete data...
I can think of any other, at least not in the anime. and "not fully accurate science" isn't really a plot hole imo a plot hole is only when the show breaks it's own rules.
@@APolygons2 I guess we just have different definitions of "plot hole," then. I'll admit that I only consider those things plot holes because Steins;Gate is sci-fi, so I expect it to *generally* play by the laws of our world unless they say otherwise (I mean, I could assume that Okabe lives in a world in which cell phones are equipped to beam memories directly into the hippocampus and would do so automatically upon receiving a compressed text, but that seems like a rather extreme assumption to make without confirmation. At the very least, that kind of technology would lead to the most destructive cell phone worm known to humankind - think the loveletter virus but for memories. That being said, I understand that this plays a somewhat larger role in Chaos;Head, so it might make more sense if I had context from there). The reason I don't think the ending itself is necessarily a plot hole is Reading Steiner. RS is essential the viewer's lens into the series. And because it's our lens, we don't definitively know much about what happens to a world line "after" Okabe leaves. And RS has *never* worked consistently. For instance, at least two Okabes definitely have Reading Steiner. Does every Okabe have RS? If so, why doesn't Okabe from World A who time leaps and causes a world line shift to World B have his memories rewritten by his "present" memories from World A as soon as he "catches up" to his past self? Heck - to me, it's not even clear if RS affects just Okabe's mind or his entire body, since he's (sometimes improbably) usually in the same place after a world line shift as he is before, with the possible but unclear exception of the first shift (I could easily be forgetting something here). If RS affects Okabe's body, let's posit this as what happens in the ending: Okabe 1 fakes Kurisu's death, which Okabe 2 sees and is tricked by. Okabe 1 time travels into the future and, during the time he skips by traveling, Okabe 2 gets Reading Steinered into the start of the series. When Okabe 1 touches down in the "present," the time machine ceases to exist, now affected by the world line change (I think it's safe to assume they make it back to the present before they disappear, since Okabe isn't jelly by the end of it). Okabe *would* cease to exist as well, were it not for Reading Steiner. The world line shift that unmade the time machine was a shift ONTO the Steins;Gate timeline FROM Okabe 1's timeline. Okabe 1's RS then faithfully replaces the body of Okabe 2 with Okabe 1 (I assume the body of Okabe 2 that remained in the Steins;Gate world line is just going along happily unaware that a copy of it was transported into the past by Okabe 2's first D-Mail). This explains why Okabe is implied to have been in the hospital in the next scene with Mayurii, and it ties together what happens to all the Okabes (in contrast, assuming things don't happen in this order begs the question - wouldn't both Okabe 1 and Okabe 2 be Reading Steinered back into the "Makise Kurisu is dead text sent" world line? Okabe 2 legitimately thought she was dead - that was a prerequisite of the Steins;Gate line - so he would presumably have sent the D-Mail and started the journey. Depending on who's memories or body took precedence, it wouldn't necessarily lock the series into a sad time loop where Kurisu wasn't dead but Okabe still restarted the series - but at the very least, them staying on the Steins;Gate timeline assumes his D-Mail either didn't send or didn't go into the past - unless I'm forgetting that something else changed before the fake death of Kurisu in the Steins;Gate timeline that would have prevented the Phone Microwave from working.). I see Steins;Gate as a story more of perspective than change. All the world lines exist - or at least, any with someone to observe them - someone with Reading Steiner. Of course, I could easily be wrong in assuming Reading Steiner transpots the entire body - I haven't double-checked all my references. I just don't recall Okabe noticing anything with *himself* that was physically different across timelines (even if it doesn't change his location - i.e., Okabe going from line A to line B replaces the Okabe at line B at his position - it could still be Okabe A's body replacing him there.). Feel free not to respond to this if you don't want to. In all honesty, like many fictional works, there's a way to pick until something doesn't make sense, and there's a way to reinforce until things make sense again. I honestly just enjoy arguing canon on the internet - and with any canon, there's always something to argue! There's probably no ground truth (writers can't possibly predict every theory fans come up with ahead of time, after all), but it can be a fun thought experiment at the very least.
The time travel using C204 isn't really all that well explained, I feel. Earlier it was established, or at least I understood to be established, the fact that multiple timelines do not exist "simultaneously", you just switch the trajectory of time to a different world line. Okabe is not affected by that switch due to his Reading Steiner, he simply re-lives the time from the point of change, which for him is the point when he receives his memories from his future self (which no longer happen). This can really only work if we accept that humans can somehow have memories or a consciousness that isn't bound to the here and now, but apart from that, I like it, because it avoids a lot of time travel problems - events happen in sequential order, there is no "my future" vs "your future", there are no time loops (what happens is a person suddenly remembers something, but the cause of these memories has not happened and is not guaranteed to happen), causality is strongly maintained, you can not meet your past self. But with C204, you have real true time travel. You can go back and exist simultaneously with an earlier version of yourself. So this opens the classic problem of, for example, going back, killing yourself, then going forward. In Steins;Gate's time travel model of no parallel universes and no time loops, the answer has to depend on how the machine itself works, so let's try a few scenarios: 1. "Perfect matching". Going forward, the machine requires an existing match to be available for you. So you can only return to the same point in time from which you left, basically guaranteeing an unbroken existence, but requiring that you exist in the new world line. If not, the entire thing disintegrates. This does not quite match what the story seems to be going for. 2. "Split personality". You insert yourself and the machine into the world line from outside of time itself. Given the requirement for things to exist "outside of time" already for the rest of the story to make sense, this isn't much of a stretch. This is what has to happen anyway when you travel back in time. So Okabe 1 goes back. Changes nothing. World line doesn't change. Returns to just after he left in a world where he left, i.e. there is still one Okabe in the world. Then he goes back *again* after watching the video Okabe 0 left him. Returns. There are now two Okabe and adult Suzuha. Wait but that's wrong. 3. "Steiner's privilege". Okabe has the Reading Steiner. Therefore, when he goes forward, his presence changes the attractor field ever so slightly, so he can exist in the point to which he arrives. Perhaps there was a thug on the rooftop who tried robbing him for his money and he refused, so he got stabbed, thus when he comes back the final time, he wakes up stabbed on the roof. 4. "It just works". It just works. In fact, Suzuha didn't disappear. Okabe managed to change the world line to one with an actual stable time loop where the time machine is created, but then erases its own existence via his actions. It both exists and does not exist, Suzuha can go back, but not forward. Okabe returns to the rooftop stabbed but the time machine itself doesn't. Suzuha disappears and is then born. The time machine disintegrates. I kind of like number 4 the best. It shows the enormity of the task Okabe had in front of him - find a world line where the time machine gets made and then gets unmade, one where the future of WW3 happens and doesn't happen. A true deceit of fate. It doesn't make complete logical sense, but it doesn't have to. It just has to fulfil the will of Steins;Gate.
In theory enacting the grandfather paradox would make you vanish on the spot, since people and objects who are deemed as paradoxes are kicked out of the world (movie and anonymous;code stuff). though I also theorize that this is only limited to attractor fields (suzuha is kicked out for landing in a foreign attractor field, okabe is kicked out for his reading steiner overload due to his alpha and beta memories) Since you seem to have put some thought into this I'd like for you to read my ending explanation if you sort comments by new
I thought the Okabe that screamed at the beginning of the anime/novel was Okabe 1(as in the okabe that was stabbed) and then okabe sent the dmail starting a time loop, of course that would then leave the question of how Kurisu is dead when okabe first gets back to the Beta line which could exsplained by it being a different line then where he came from. Or am I just forgetting something that invalidates this theory entirely?
Steins;gate can't be a loop, because steins;gate 0 exists. And also what you mentioned is exactly why i think an okabe 2 would exist. I have read a lot of theories in these comments, and one or two of them to actually make senee while debunking mine.... but the show is not a loop, of that i am sure of.
hello. I just finished steins gate. The one where they went to L.A. It was really amazing. My judgment may be clouded, but I genuinely loved it. I love watching stuff with good endings, and I saw that with the episode 24 of steins gate. I believe that it couldn't have been concluded in another way that would make it seem great. I believed that it tied up all the loose ends, with how Okabe has done everything in order to go back to normal. But after I watched this video, I dont know what to say anymore. There is more than just 1 anime? This was from a visual novel? I genuinely didn't know. This anime left an amazing impression on me, and I'm afraid that if I find out more about the other steinsgate thingies, I may fall into a rabbit hole about this. Which is why I want to ask. Should I know more about steins gate? Or is it better of if I live in ignorance? Not knowing about anything. And if I should know more, where do I start?
I am embarrassed that this 2 year old video of mine blew up this much, cause I didn't even scratch the surface of steins;gate's ending, but that's besides the point lol I'm just saying that before answering your question, to say If you liked it, please check out some of the newer videos I made, cause I have improved a LOT since I made this so long ago. and to your question: Well, ok so, the original visual novel for steins;gate is basically the exact same story but with some extra stuff that were cut in the anime, which includes some alternative endings. But personally, I like the anime more, because I think most of the stuff that were cut, weren't necessary or were somewhat poor. Making the anime better than the VN. Though some of the cut content is really good, so there are people who would disagree with me on that. As far as the original goes, I think if you're going to check anything about it. just watch the suzuha ending, which was actually really good. The rest I wouldn't bother with unless you REALLY want to get everything about the series. Steins;gate has two anime follow ups, which are an OVA and a movie. Both of them don't make much sense as far as the continuity and logic of the series goes, but they nail the characters, so if you just want to spend more time with the cast and get some nice moments, I suggest watching them while knowing that they are technically not cannon. Steins;gate 0 however, is cannon, and once you see it you won't be able to imagine steins;gate as a story without it. It's like a second half that you didn't know you needed. The issue however, is that the anime adaptation for it is not nearly as good as the original steins;gate. If you are willing to read the VN for 0, it's probably the better way to experience it's story, but for what it's worth, the parts of 0 that are directly connected to the original are still EXTREMELY good in the anime. It's a show with low lows. and a lot of flaws mostly thanks to the adaptation, but when it's good it's REALLY good. There is also a slice of life romance visual novel, which I believe isn't cannon, but a lot of people like it, and it exists, so I thought it was worth mentioning. That's as far as steins;gate as a series goes.... BUT, there is more... Now I haven't read these myself, but steins;gate is actually a part of a much bigger series called the science adventure universe, which includes several other Visual novels, to which steins;gate is only a small part of. Some of which have the characters from steins;gate appear in them at some points. Out of which Chaos:Child is heavily debated to be even better than steins;gate. Now the anime adaptations for the rest of these kinda suck, except for Robatic;notes which from my understanding has a decent adaptation. I haven't seen it though so I wouldn't know. Oh and also, the newest visual novel announced in the series is teased to be called "steins; blank" which implies there maybe a new steins;gate in the making. Now to answer your original question.... how far should you go down the rabbit hole? Honestly, that entirely depends on you. But I suggest at the very least checking out 0, because the parts of it that connect to the original story add so much more weight to so many already top tier moments. It's better to go with the VN, but the anime works too. oh and one last thing. In the visual novel, Mayuri has feelings for okabe, which does not come across at all in the original anime. Which I don't think hurts it, like at all. But I thought I should give you that context, cause without it, when 0 DOES dive into her feelings, it feels completely out of nowhere for someone who has only seen the anime. Hope this helped! Oh I almost forgot, I'm a "youtuber" so I need to say LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE!!!!
My brother, thank you for taking your time to answer my questions! I appreciate it very much. I will totally watch 0. As for the non-canon ones, I personally get sad if something I watch or read wasn't actually canon (I can't explain it very well... I just don't understand myself that much haha) Though a few hours after commenting on your video, I did get recommend a shorts about Christina looking at variations of Okabe with cool clothings. I could be mistaken but if that's part of any OVA, I may want to watch it a bit. Anyways, thank you so much for taking the time to respond back to me. I was scrolling through your channel earlier and I saw a lot of videos that I want to watch! This video about steins gate was enough to got me to subscribe to you! Once again, thanks a bunch. I'll watch your videos. You're great!!!
so basically the grandfather paradox solution: The time travel back to a point, does not alter the timeline, but instead creates a new timeline in which different things happen
Another issue is that if the okabe in the steins gate timeline were to see kurisu pretend dead, then the cycle would repeat itself. Okabe would send the d mail, and it would lead back to the sern dystopia
I actually thought about this when I first watched it and I feel like the solution to this is the whole "Reading Steiner" shtick, or rather the "ability to remember other worldlines". First of all, that whole explanation of the ability doesn't make sense, for a few reasons: 1)In this show, worldlines aren't parallel worlds, but mathematical approximations of possible causal chains of events that are clustered into Attractor Fields. Which means that none of those worldlines actually happened, and so, even if you do create a change in causality that switches worldlines, everything that was "before" fundamentally doesn't exist. It's not like you get memories from your other self in another world, none of that stuff actually exists. 2)From the very beginning we know that there can be 2 Okabes at the same time, which kinda makes no sense from the mechanical perspective considering RS. RS basically makes Okabe a fixed point on the time axis of reality, he cannot use it to artificially go forward or backward, and if a change in causality does happen, he stays at the same "point" as he should be anyway, with everything around him changing to accommodate the new causality. That makes him a perfect "observer". So what would happen if you had 2 perfect "observers" with different memories at the same moment in time? They should immediately converge their memories into one, because it's been shown that that's how the ability works. He should be a fixed "point" regardless of the context, and having 2 points in 4d space that are forced to collapse onto a single axis (here time), they become the same. So why doesn't that happen? Well, imo, RS is basically a way for the Universe to avoid partial Grandfather paradox. If you fuck with causality, you always put something that "shouldn't be there", that's what creates a divergence. But in this Universe, there are no parallel timelines, so whatever changed causality still doesn't have a causal origin in that timeline, and therefore, paradox happens. So why not bring over the dynamic element that caused the change over to the new timeline and make them the base reason for it's existence. That's Okabe. But the only way that can work is if you replicate/transfer everything relevant about his existence (his mind, the thing that caused the change originally) and shove it into the new timeline at the same point in time. And, because he's literally the protagonist, everything starts with him (Okabe 0) and ends with him (Okabe 2). This also explains why timelines don't end immediately when he changes causality directly and why multiple versions of him can exist at the same time and follows the logic of the plan Okabe 0 came up with. Essentially, Okabe is the reason why continuity exists, both in the story and in the Universe of the show. Without him as an active agent, any "change" to the causality would be a paradox. And so all of his 'versions' form a type of meta causal chain, 0->1->2. That also explains why he doesn't have memories from all infinite possible timelines that don't exactly exist. He only has the memories he should theoretically have in order to justify his current position in spacetime within a particular timeline. Aaaand, that also explains why some other characters have some partial memories. All of them were close to the root cause of the divergence, so they, through their influence on him, also by proxy influenced causality, but only in specifically relevant timelines (Faris when she has to delete her dad and Makise in the final timeline), because they are the only reason those particular timelines even exist. Or rather, they become plot relevant. They only get relevant info from the Universe because they are only relevant in that particular worldline. And that explains the ending too. They are Okabe 2 and Makise, but they get the memories because of those mechanics, while Okabe 1 either dies from blood loss or continues existing separately.
i actually think keeping the reading steiner vage makes it work. since only one timeline exists at any given time, the reading steiner kinda functions as the "soul" in my mind. something that is one and the same among all the shifts. it's not scientific by any means, thate why it works perfectly as it is. being vage. but yes if i remade the video i woulr mention the 2 okabe at the end thing. the beef of the plot hole is the okabe of steins;gate (okabe 2) being missing.
What hasn’t been explored in the anime is what happens to Okabe after he sends a D mail. From my point of view, in episode 24 okabe 2 thinks Kurisu is dead and sends the dmail, which then loops back to the start of season 1. If we assume okabe 2 goes back to the start of season 1 after dmail, then okabe 1 is the only one living in the steins gate and that’s it. So if D mails actually teleport the user to their new world line and replace the consciousness of that existing okabe this could make sense.
Also, is there any evidence that world lines disappear? I think it's terrifying that there are universes where okabe dicks around puts on a headset and dies. Especially since i believe there never is empty vessel, some other okabe enters his body before he bites the bullet.
it was indeed and also as a UA-cam person I am obligated to say like and subscribe, or the algorithm demon will eat my pet Franky. so... please like and subscribe!!!
Lots of interesting takes on s;g end here, might as well give my take too Personally I think the ending breaking the rules was a creative decision instead of an unintentional inconsistency, as it came with a more emotionally impactful ending. My take on a more consistent ending is this: Okabe1 stabs himself, tricking Okabe2 into thinking Kurisu is dead. Okabe2 runs off and eventually sends the first dmail. The instant this dmail is sent, the worldline changes - Suzuha and Okabe1 dont leave via time machine at all (even if they got into it). Now there are two possibilities: 1. Okabe2 finds himself in the alpha worldline, and continues the s;g story as Okabe0/1 did. (Unclear if 2 ends up as 0 or 1). Meanwhile Okabe1 ends up in 1.048596 - Steins;Gate, at the current time. (My favorite as it fully loops the story, although i explained it poorly considering there is only ever 1 active worldline) 2. Okabe1/2 merge via Reading Steiner and end up as Okabe in 1.048596 - Steins;Gate. Either option, the worldline changes to 1.048596 - Steins;Gate at the current time (not time machined to when okabe1 went back from). Okabe retains all memories from Okabe1 and Suzuha ceases to exist. The issue with this is now Okabe has no injury, the story takes a slight turn from whats shown in the anime. This is why I believe the ending was an intentional creative decision rather than an unintentional inconsistency. If you wanted you could also argue Okabe gains an injury in 1.048596 before/after the leap, and gets hospitalized for that, but theres nothing backing that outside my own wishful thinking. But yeah, thats my take
Hello! It wasn't a creative decision or an inconsistency. The Okabe that fooled, the one that got stabbed, trigger the time machine before the first dmail otherwise they would be stuck together in alpha which didn't happen. After the machine triggers he is sent to the nearest future after the events that were supposed to happen on the last active worldline. This means that the Okabe that fooled will trigger the machine but it goes to where the Okabe that got fooled would have ended the moment he got back from those 3 weeks. Since there can only be one active worldline, these 3 weeks had to happen and the machine had to travel before the dmail. Once the travel is done, the Okabe that fooled will RS the Okabe that got fooled after his 3 weeks of suffering. Do you know what would have been a severe inconsistency? If Okabe wasn't hurt after the worldline change. On so many levels this makes it even better because Okabe wouldn't look so proud once he found Kurisu. Why would he be proud if he wasted 3 weeks and she was actually alive? This is just one of many arguments. That's why the Okabe that fooled himself is the one that gets the sweat ending. Hope this helped!
This is how i interpret the okabes First 0 does his thing, i agree with you on that point Then okabe 1 goes back in time to make okabe 2 think kurisu is dead. Okabe 2 goes back in time by accident and becomes okabe 1 and convinces a new okabe 2 that kurisu is dead. This then repeats forevers (allowing for a infinite suzuhas to help) then after this each okabe 1 leaps using reading steiner and lands in steins gate out of the loop for good.
I mean I will buy okabe not knowing kurisu is alive and going back in time by accident. but that logic can't work when you consider suzuha. she is from the future. and if it's the second loop, (or third when counting 0) the WW3 should have been stopped. maybe okabe 2 would fail to realize kurisu is alive and would be possible for him to go back accidently. but that just can not happen to suzuha unless its the biggest prank in time travel history.
Okabe2 only goes through the 3 weeks, doesn't fool anyone. Okabe1 triggers the time machine before Okabe2, and for this reason since Okabe2 would have sent the dmail otherwise, Okabe1 is back to where Okabe2 would have been if he sent it and got back, effectively RSing Okabe2. That's why Okabe1 is the "final" one. There is no such thing as an infinite loop where they all fool themselves
what I thought is that that all they needed too do was to make sure okabe 2 sent that d mail, and when he did it, it would swap places with okabe 2 with okabe 1 in that worldline and would either combine okabe 1 and okabe 2, erase okabe 2, or be a infinite loop, each time with okabe reaching steins gate. or it just combined all the okabes and none got erased since its multi timelines, not a multiverse
Just wondering but, from my understanding there are only 2 okabe's. 0 and 1 since the okabe 2 you mentioned ends up still(probably) sending a message to daru about kurisu being stabbed which leads into the story okabe 0 goes through, which eventually ends in chirisu's death since okabe 0 does in fact kill her casuing okabe 2 to become okabe 0. okabe 0 then creates okabe 1 which splits into the steins gate timeline once he returns to okabe 1's timepoint right after he went back to the past for the second time, allowing for okabe 1 to keep his memories.
Maybe this will be the biggest stretch you've ever heard but hear me out. The okabe we see in the end is actually okabe 2. The strongest argument I have for this is that because okabe 1 knew that kurisu is alive in the steins gate worldline, so he would've been non-stop looking for her which he didn't. What we actually see is okabe 2 having returned from the alpha worldline not realising he landed in steins gate. I think okabe 2 is just assuming that kurisu is dead in this worldline which is why he got shocked when randomly bumping into her in the streets. The end quote "This is the choice of steins gate" is okabe 2 realising that he somehow ended up in steins gate. And then there are the "plotholes" for this theory - Why was okabe 2 stabbed? Well idk maybe he just happend to get stabbed by some thugs or something - Okabe talking to himself at the end as if she is still alive. The only reason I could come up with is that he is just coping with himself and beliving that somehow she is alive in the beta worldline. In the end, I still would've prefered the ending that you came up with. Im just trying to make sense of what we got lol.
Its cause and effect and observer point as a viewer that cause a lot of confusion. We as Okabe - is observer. Okabe replacing different Okabe everytime he switching worldlines, he doesnt have memories from current worldline, but he remember different ones. So in reality SG 0 Okabe wouldnt existed, if first Okabe didnt change worldlines before and didnt try to save Kurisu in the first time. SG 1, Okabe fails to save Kurisu, SG 0 Okabe lives 15 years, "dies", then after 11 years in coma wakes up with the memories from 2011 and comes back after 3000 leaps in 2011. Now he slightly changed present, saved time machine for couple seconds , neutralize everyone who want it to capture machine and lives again 15 years and now sending message to the past SG 1 Okabe in 2010 about how to save Kurisu without changing facts. Basically in order to SG 1 Okabe succeeded, he should failed at the first time, video message become visible, because all events occur in the future. Message changes Okabe motivation, preventing future from happening and probably video message become unwatchable again, because its changes past and prevents SG 0 Okabe existance. So why Okabe doesnt replace himself? Well...he currently in the time machine and during time travel he doesnt exists in the present. He returned without time machine, probably felt and bleeded on a floor. Should been time machine dissapear instantly during time travel, just by changing fact that time machine wouldnt exists in the future? Should time machine work at all during worldline changes? Who knows.
I thought you were going to talk about the paradox of Mayuri and Suzuha being blown up in Steins;Gate 0 making it impossible for Mayuri to ever meet Kagari, however actually I think(?) this was kinda avoided in 0's VN lmao however, I do believe in the way stuff works in Steins;Gate, once a timeline is changed Okabe's consciousness or whatever is moved to an active timeline, it's like they say, it's all like a strain of string to make a rope, a timeline is never not there, because it's always there in the background, I just assumed Suzuha returned with Okabe (or dies idk lol) and the active timeline switches along with Okabe's consciousness
@@APolygons2 it could always been something that's meant to happen, it sounds illogical considering okabe 2 doesn't get stabbed after seeing kurisu thinking she's dead, but it has happened where okabe in Steins;Gate 0 gets shot by Suzuha and when time leaping back ends up getting wounded again similarly, but in a different way Purely hypothetical though, but I get where you're coming from, it definitely is weird that okabe wakes up at the hospital
My humble explanation is the next one: Okabe has the Reading Steiner, not the audience, if he has the RS theres no sense on thinking he cease to exist, or he don´t know anything about the others timelines. So, indeed, When Okabe 0 sent the video, his RS were activated and he reach the S;G but thats from his POV, not ours, the same applies to your "Okabe 1". I think all those Okabes were the same and activate the RS on diferents spots who werent been shown to the audience PS: Sorry if you see an gramatical mistake, but im not a native english so i try my best
the start is a bit slow for some people's taste, specially if you aren't a big fan of slice of life, but it will grab you. you would be glad you pushed through when you reach the high points of the series.
edited at 5/09/2022 to make it a more clear read:
To clear up some things:
TLDR: There are a lot of ways to explain the ending, but all of them come from the fact that okabe 2 is missing at the end. the steins;gate timeline is his timeline, yet he is nowhere to be found. and every interpretation or fix of the ending stems from this single error.
firstly, something that I should have explained better in the video
That something being the reason for why okabe disappears:
the first reason would be that he is in the same situation as suzuha, meaning he would also have no reason to exist if the problem is fixed.
although what suzuha says, as some people pointed out, doesn't really make a lot of sense.
but, even if we see that aspect as a problem, there is still another reason for why they should not be
able to come back to the steins;gate time line.
according to suzuha, both in steins;gate and in 0, two of the same people from different times, can't meet each other.
which would happen if they went back, while the original okabe of that timeline (okabe 2) was still there.
so even if okabe didn't disappear, he should have still ended up like how suzuha and mayuri ended at the end of 0.
but with all that said , This is only one way to change/fix/explain the ending. there are multiple other theories explaining the ending, some make more sense than the others, but none of them are THE RIGHT answer.
so even the ending that I explained, even with this extra context is still probably not completely perfect, and it is simply just the ending that made the most sense to me.
so don't take the video as 100% true facts.
who knows, maybe one day, I'll make a video talking about every single one of those theories, but that's a different story for a different day.
while you're at it, a like and sub will also be greatly appreciated, since I didn't want to mess up the tone of the video, I didn't say it there, but I will be very thankful if you do it :D
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Actually that's a wrong theory because it's explained throughout the show/anime that it's multiple versions of the same okabe and not different okabes therefore when the problem fixes okabe number two will live through the story of steins gate episode 1 to 22 and then missing link OVA and then steins gate 0 episode 1 to episode 24 and then back to the original steins gate for episode 24
In other words when he cancel the mistake and enter the time machine to return to steins gate world line just like there are many timelines there are also many steins gate timelines in particular when one of the okabes finishes the story the next one in this particular case number two will loop through everything we've seen again just like zero did just like one did and then after the second one does everything that we see the first one do or zero in this case again he will see a third one and a fourth one and a fifth one in a continuous loop
I assume I could also be wrong and also explain it wrong too
But your version does make sense. I didn't mean exactly wrong theory what I meant to say was whilst possible I personally feel like it's more in the way that I explained
I think you have small misunderstanding of how the timelines work. okabe 2 can't loop back into being 0. because in his timeline, once he gets to episode 22, suszuha never comes back to stop world war 3.
since our okabe already stopped that and saved kurisu in okabe 2s timeline.
so when okabe 2 reaches ep22 missing link can't happen. the normal ep 23 can't happen either. kurisu is already saved, so he won't have to do anything.
@@APolygons2 🗿 probably correct actually I might be wrong and he indeed should disappear but isn't the point of saving her that the other one still finds her "stabbed" and sends the d-mail technically though you have a point actually I didn't think of that
I always thought that okabe's 1 consciousness would jump to the steins gate world line with reading steiner
that can't be it, because he ends up going to a hospital.
if he had replaced okabe 2, he wouldn't have the stab wound.
@@APolygons2 Okabe 1 replaced okabe 2 when he got back to the future with suzuha (the flaming time machine) okabe traversing into steins;gate but their material body plus the time machine had to stay in the previous timeline thus, not existing anymore, meaning he replaced okabe 2 after Okabe 2 did the same as 1, therefore the stab wound and hospital recovery time
but why would okabe 2 go back to save kurisu when kurisu is already alive?
you have to keep in my that by the time okabe 2 gets to that point kurisu is alive since she never actually died.
@@ErgolavikiMafia this was how I understood it to be as well.
@@APolygons2 I remembered how I fixed the paradox back in the day,
Bear with me, its kinda a lot
the okabe you watch at that episode is not okabe 1 saving kurisu and okabe 2
but the same okabe they are both okabe 1
the one from steins gate. Meaning the Okabe that goes with mayuri and get the green upa its the same okabe as the okabe that watches the video of okabe 0 gets inspired and saves kurisu thus getting to steins gate
The steins;gate begins not with the okabe we watch at the ending but with okabe 0 and then diverge in episode 23b and steins gate 0 to get to how the other okabe on steins;gate episode 23a goes on saves kurisu gets back to the moment of he and suzuha leaving, back to the future but suzuha and the time machine are from another timeline, therefore they have to return to their Original timeline due to the divergence point that's occurring the burning of papers, on the other hand okabe is from steins;gate he is the OG thus remaining there hurt and he is rushed to the hospital
Honestly, Okabe 0 Suffered from most of the Trauma in this Entire series
true
Of Course, Okabe 0 Had to Live his entire Life with the pain of losing both Kurisu and Mayuri, just hoping he can fix it all somehow, I can’t even imagine how happy he was to see Mayuri again when he went to save her and suzuha.
People say that, but fail to consider the rest of the series :^)
But if okabe has the reading Steiner then I think that trauma could be with the okabe living in stiens gate world line no?
@@OnyX_Orionno, bc Okabe 0 (aka Angst-king or B timeline Okabe) "stops existing" since Okabe 2 that was slapped by Mauri, hopped from A line on B, faked Kurisu's death, have shifted from the this B timeline (aka 0 timeline/kurisu-is-dead-timeline) and finally reached S;G that is free from both A and B attractor field (plus his memories overwrite his og self's aka Okabe's 1 or A timeline Okabe). So A timeline goes as intended in order for Okabe to become Okabe 2 later, but timeline B's usual memory delivery shenanigans gets "interrupted/aborted" as well as Okabe 0 in it. All because since B timeline was changed by ours truly - Okabe 2 (who eventually takes place and resides in the S;G timeline) wich came at a cost of Okabe 0 eventually being left in 1800 with no way to go back since his machine is a prototype and Suzuha and Mauri's is out of fuel (something about those lines. No way back and no way to overwrite Okabe 2 for our Angst-king sadly, he's memories won't reach Okabe 2, which stays in S;G with all the memories he got at this point, no possibility of "dreams" aka flashbacks of Okabe 0 im pretty sure) Poor dude gets wiped at the end, but at least Okabe 2 got where he wanted. Changed his fate. With a help of 0 Okabe ofc once again, since it's him who sent Suzuha on mission, sent a message to save Kurisu and ect.
Regardless of how great steins gate is, can we appreciate the wonderful SOUNDTRACK is, so intense, right to the emotions of the moment, with a retro touch!
Absolutely true.
the original was already great, but the soundtrack for 0 is one of my all time favorites.
@@APolygons2 same, although I like both of them equally. My favourite track is isolation.
@@glowlikeyou1099 fair enough, specially since they kind of build on each other.
my favorite track is reawaken
Actually i kinda wish they had just used the VN ost, like how clannad did their ost
@@DaTLMusic but they do use a lot of the VN ost.
there are a few tracks missing, but for every one of them are 2 original tracks added instead.
and it's done by the same composer with the same style.
When Okabe 1 said "This is it, I'm the Steins;gate" I almost had a heart attack
When Kurisu told him “You really are the Steins;Gate 0” I almost cried
@@ceedott which episode？
@@hackermaster4534 It's a joke, bruh.
@@ceedott When Daru said, "A gate is another way of saying hole," I got mad.
I feel like the best moment in the series was when Okabe sent a d-mail to his past self with the text "it's steiner time" and then the past Okabe steins;gated all over the lab.
I think there's something even more complicated going on here.
We know that the "alpha" and "beta" worldlines aren't actually worldlines, they are attractor fields, each attractor field has an infinite number of possible worldlines, that's why when Okabe was trapped in the alpha attractor field (where Mayuri always dies prematurely) he was able to see many worldlines where Mayuri dies, with slight variations in Mayuri's deaths, Heart Attack, shot in a taxi, shot in the lab, run over by a car on two different locations, etc.
I think that when Okabe 1 went back for the first time to try and save Kurisu, he actually went to only one possible worldline, but there are also infinitely many more worldlines with small tiny variations where Kurisu also died because Okabe 1 stabbed her accidentally because he went back in time.
I think that there's something going on here, similar to how the reading steiner phenomenon solved the "plot hole" of Okabe keeping his memories intact across worldlines.
I think since only one worldline can exist at a time and all others just stay as mathematical possibilities, all Okabes collapsed into one at the end of Steins Gate, that final Okabe has the memories of all Okabes, so, no Okabe disappears technically.
If we are going to apply the same logic you allied to S;G 0, Okabe from 0 should have disappeared the moment he sent that video to himself as a dmail. But he didn't, because there is still a mathematical possibility of his dmail not working or not being read properly (what happened in Okabe 1's phone at the beginning of the series)
I don't know if i overcomplicated everything or if someone else has said something similar before, but these are just my thoughts on the situation.
I've seen the idea of okabe's mind getting send to one single okabe before, but if that happened, okabe 1 should have transferred to okabe 2, not the other way around since that's how reading steiner has always worked.
and there isn't really any evidence to support any okabe transferring at the end to begin with.
Also, there is a good reason for why okabe 0 never transferred.
at the shot at the end of 0, he only recorded the message. when the message was actually sent, okabe 0 was in some random timeline and time in the middle of no where with mayuri and suzuha.
we don't know what happened to him, but reading steiner works based on time frames. if okabe 0 is in a time after or before okabe 1's death, reading steiner can't really happen.
I made an error in the video.
I used "disappear" as a word, because I tried to explain my point based on what suzuha says about her disappearing.
but as many pointed out, suzuha's logic is flawed in the first place.
but the very base of my logic stays the same.
okabe 1 should arrive in okabe 2's timeline.
there should be another okabe there, one that never goes back to save kurisu because she has already been saved by okabe 1.
so, there should have been either 2 okabes at the end of the series, or okabe one should have left to some random other time to not meet himself, just like how suzuha and mayuri did at the end of 0.
By the way, I'm confused with something.
Okabe 0, is the okabe who sent the video dmail to okabe 1 on the start of the series. But did that okabe 0 lived any experience with Kurisu? Because if not, how did he know that okabe 1 lived 3 weeks with kurisu alive? I'm so confused with this overthinking man xd
@@APolygons2 and if okabe 1 has gone to a random time line, there is a chance of him finding okabe 0 and make a time paradox? lmao i'm overcomplicating i'm sorry
@@Bazzinger Tldr - 0kabe fucked up timeline to the point that Okabe was able to reach steins;gate.
uh... 0kabe is the one who experienced all of og steins;gate story and then given up after failing in rescuing Kurisu one time. And he is the one who send "instructions/motivation" to his old self Okabe on how to save Kurisu after first failed attempt.
He is basically helping other version of himself and in a sense 0kabe creates a path to steins;gate worldline for Okabe to follow.
Also on a little sidenote "one active worldline" is an outdated concept.
Either cuz of 0kabe's steiner, or because of other perceivers, idk.
Considering how messed up is worldline of zero. Where multiple worldlines not only exist in more or less same time/place, they are also intertwined, but also straight up connected to each other and directly influence each other. Trough 0kabe.
@@Bazzinger okabe 0 went through the exact same thing as okabe 1 until the episode 23 events.
so yeah of course he knew kurisu
appearing out of nowhere in the past is already changing the world to an extent, then going back to the future wouldn't make you disappear but could make duplicates, in the world where you didn't need to go back anymore, the present you who was supposed to now go back to the past, and the future you now going from past to present would also stick around...? so Suzuha took Okabe 2 in secret after taking Okabe 1 to the hospital *and-*
Yes I know the disappearing thing was my mistake, I mentioned it in the pinned comment.
I was going to say what about okabe 2, but then you said suzuha took him in secret which was kind of funny, but somehow it would actually make sense lol
I always interpreted it as Okabe 1= Okabe 2. Like Okabe never actually saw Kurisu die, it was always the fake version.
But that would make the entire story pointless.
Besidrs the fact that the second okabe gets a plastic upa instead of a metal one proves they aren't the exact same.
But either way, hope you enjoyed. Do me a favour and just take a look at my channel to see if any of my recent stuff interests you. It physically hurts me that this half baked thing I made over 2 years ago when I had no idea what I was doing has like over 90% of my channel's entire view count lol
It was an interesting video for sure, but I don't see the plot hole. Through my eyes, it makes sense. Let me explain my pov.
Suzuha goes back in time, and appears at the radio building the day of the conference. But it wasn't until a week later that her and Okabe go back in time to save Kurisu. At that point in time, she had already traveled to other time periods, and established the posts that led to books on theories for time traveling under the name of John Titor. But it had been years since then, and it changed things that didn't leave a big impact on the time line, not enough to change any of the fixed event that would happen in between. Events pulled in by the attractor field. With me so far?
When Suzuha and Okabe went back, they went to the day of the presentation. And by saving Kurisu, the timeline split at an earlier point than previously done so in Okabe's time traveling expeditions. They could not stay in that period of time because there would be two Okabe, so they went back to the time machine before it was too late. The time machine disappeared the moment the phenomenon occured, most likely when the first D-mail was sent. In this new timeline, suzuha had no reason to go back in time to that time period. THAT is why she disappeared. Okabe returned to his actual time period, but in the new timeline. This is because of his ability to "observe" the timeline as it is mentioned later in the movie.
Now, just because Suzuha disappeared, doesn't mean she didn't go back in time at all. We see that a time machine was built regardless of the original series and 0 because Kurisu wanted to save Okabe from his disappearance. In a timeline in which a time machine was built anyways, why would events that occured using a time machine be erased? Specially taking into consideration the attractor field?
Now, looking at the timeline later on, to the events of the movie, we get another event that is similar.
Okabe is in trouble and will disappears. This makes Kurisu build a time machine that is taken by Suzuha to the past to prevent it from happening. However, because she's not from that time period, nor does she really know Okabe, it can't be her to save him. It had to be Kurisu because it was her knowledge that led to remember Okabe, as well as the reason for the time machine.
In that timeline, Okabe was supposed to disappear. The moment Kurisu saved him, they moved very slightly to a timeline running parallel to the one they were just at. Because of their experience with time travel, Okabe and Kurisu must have created another time machine. Either they realize that a time machine must be created to stay on that same timeline were no one has to die, and/or to send future Suzuha back in time to make sure everything is going according to plan to lead them to the true Steins Gate. Again, leading to the creation of a time machine, and event caused with their time machine to stay fixed in the past events.
While there is no proof for that last bit, it is what makes it make sense in my mind.
Holy hell this is hella concise and gives logical explanations to the possible plot holes and even the movies, bravo
@@streetgamer3452 i tried explaining it as best as I could at the moment. I might edit the post to fix a thing or two, but as I stated, it is the way things make sense to me. It is one of my favorite anime.
that is one hell of an explanation. while you filled a lot of gaps to make it make sense, I'm still impressed. specially because you even made sense of the none canon movie that by all means broke the rules that the show had established.
I highly doubt that the writers were thinking this far in without explaining it in the show, even with a show as well put together and well researched as this, but still, it doesn't make this read any less interesting.
@@APolygons2 hahaha. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
My thoughts exactly. Thanks for this. So many people overlook the fact that they consciously avoid a paradox throughout the show, including that final mission and that Suzuha would no longer have to travel back in time since Steins Gate was achieved through saving Kurisu and destroying the papers. We can poke at the show's logic all day long since it's all theoretical but it's one of the most solid time travel stories I've ever come upon. A true masterpiece in my mind.
4:10 What happened to Okabe 2 was that - he sent a dmail because he saw a dead body -> this triggered SERN (which leads to a dystopic future) -> he continues to evolve into Okabe 1 - and the story repeats itself.
Okabe's decision to save Kurisu, despite knowing that she's not alive in his original timeline, is a central and emotionally charged plot point in "Steins;Gate.
I think this plothole can be addressed if we dig into quantum mechanics a little, which play a significant part in the plot of Steins;Gate.
From the beginning, Okabe 0 and 1 are identical. Makise Kurisu is in a state of superposition, being both dead and alive at the same time in the universe's eyes, which I believe is a clever nod to Schrodinger's Cat Experiment.
Regardless, whether Okabe 0 or Okabe 1, their timelines until episode 23 are the exact same. Kurisu is "dead" (actually in superposition), and they go through the same three weeks of hell.
Prior to episode 23, the world treats her as though she were dead. During episode 23 however, the wave function collapses, assuming the "Many Worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics and not Copenhagen's interpretation among others.
In one timeline, the wave function collapses in one direction and Okabe gives up on rescuing Kurisu, then the superposition is shattered and Kurisu is really dead, resulting to the events of Steins;Gate 0.
In the other timeline, the wave function collapses in the other direction. Okabe receives the message from future Okabe, and will opt to rescue Kurisu, breaking the superposition and Kurisu is alive.
However, there is one issue: why was Kurisu in superposition to begin with? Why was she neither dead nor living?
Because Future Okabe "deceived the world."
Okabe just has to travel back in time and stage Kurisu's death to complete the circle, putting her back in superposition.
Now, "Okabe 2" witnesses this, and the same result occurs. He goes through the three weeks of hell, Kurisu remains in superposition until Episode 23, when the wave function collapses, splitting the timeline again, creating the events of Steins;Gate 0 and the original Steins;Gate.
I like to believe that this is the correct explanation of how Steins;Gate unfolded, and given that string theory, causality, and quantum mechanics are covered and talked about throughout the story, it seems logical that this is the case.
The narrative is merely presented in "chronological" order for the benefit of the audience, but the universe perceives time differently than we do, creating what we perceive to be a plot hole. As usual, however, the strange behaviors of quantum mechanics can explain phenomena that would be difficult to convey in a conventional sense.
Thanks for your comment. It brings me back to my high school days, where I both watch Steins;Gate and I had my final exams for Physics :)
Reading it made me feel nostalgic haha
30000 iq + love u
Honestly that is how I percieved it. Okabe tricking the world and his previous self so events can continue while Kurusu is actually alive.
This is the best explanation. The two Okabes end up having different light cones by the end of the show.
Your interpretation is great however Okabe 2's past is not the same as Okabe 1 and 0. This is because Okabe 2 recieves a green upa while Okabe 1 recieves a metal upa. You could argue that it does not make a difference but it does. It means that at the very least Okabe 2 cannot be Okabe 1. Meaning that he must be Okabe 0.
Time travelling concept is always tricky because it's still unrealistic and in any story it's gonna have at least one plothole. Here it's forgivable since the story still made sense, the concept is used well.
honestly yeah, it's actually a miracle steins;gate was this complex and made it this easy to understand while having only a single arguable plot hole.
@@APolygons2 You know whats insane? The only reason its so good is that its a complete replica of Jon titor's story. The idea of divergence is so good that it holds against literally everything. I love it.
@@marazali2557 Interestingly, the divergence idea Titor had was itself taken from David Deutsch's theory on time travel from 1991, which is actually considered by many to be a flawed theory of time travel in and of itself as the physics community is still skeptical of the many worlds theory beyond alternate timelines being mathematical possibilities. The only vaguely accepted form of time travel in physics is that which does not alter the past (in accordance with the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle), also called a Closed Timelike Curve. How such CTCs emerge, I cannot say.
@@milkwater1204 Thanks for the response. Obviously divergence theory does not hold up in the physics world. However, if someone actually came from the future and told that his representation of the future wouldn't be perfectly aligned with the timeline who he travelled, there is not a single counter argument. That combined with the fact that John Titor's conspiracy about ibm 5100 actually being correct, made his story perfect. Steins gate is undoubtedly the best media to encapsulate that.
Also in the visual novel of steins gate, kurisu explains what CTC is. Its actually pretty interesting how detailed her explanation was on the vn. Thanks again for the insights.
My thoughts exactly. All time travel stories contain paradox plot holes. They all require a suspension of belief. Steins;Gate is goated beyond all expectations despite this.
I watched S;G two years ago and introduced it to a friend shortly after. We spent days debating about the show, trying to understand it's story. We managed to figure out everything but two things: the reason why Okabe 0 went to 12000BC, and the same problem treated in this video.
The Okabe 0 thing was "why did he bother to go to the 12000BC, when he could just send the video D-mail and the worldline would shift inmediately, preventing Suzuha and Mayuru's travel and possibly stopping Okabe from dying". The only reason we could think of was that if Okabe 0 sended the D-mail, then Reading Steiner would kick in, completely erasing 15 years of good memories of Okabe 2 next to Kurisu, and replacing them with the horrible memories of Okabe 0, and perhaps he just didn't want this to happen. Maybe he just accepted his "death" and thought it was for the best allowing a version of himself living a good life.
Anyway it's nice to find another dedicated fan of S;G who also managed to unravel the twisted plot of the series. Cheers :)
Don't you think it would be a huge hypocrisy from his side to tell his past self "do not undo anything" and then undo things himself? All conditions must be met. Also he is the Okabe that suffered the most, why would he want to RS into S;G, at that point he'd lose any reason to live making the series pointless. The whole goal was to help someone with the brain less fried to reach the wordline. He had to "die" on 2025, if he just sent the D-Mail, let's imagine the line didn't get interrupted, he'd be very alive if it was still that line and 2025, causing a paradox.
And he wouldn't be erasing 15 years with Kurisu as she was dead there. They knew the % of the line that would come before the S;G was reached, so he had everything ready for the next one to take the baton (which is the Okabe we see throughout the first season).
i can actually solve that for you.
if you look at when he recorded the message suzuha is still a kid.
and we know okabe 1 will be able to see the message, at the time when suzuha comes back to the past to stop ww3.
we also know that okabe 0, dies before the time where suzuha comes back.
so he would be dead before the time reading steiner would need to kick in.
but if he is years and years in the past, he can avoid his death, and keep his promise to mayuri and suzuha.
@@APolygons2 From what I understand about his reading steiner whenever a world line changes Okabe of lets say Oct 7, 2007 7:00pm goes to the new world line of Oct 7, 2007 7:00pm at the exact moment when such a change occurred. The fact that Okabe 0 does not exist at the point of time when the world line changes he simply ceases to exist when the past changes. It is just how their world works. It essentially revolves around Okabe since he is the only observer who can truly witness such changes. If he did not exist then all these changes that are made happen, and there is no one who can attest that such a change occurred.
It is the same reason why Okabe takes over Steins;gate Okabe. Look at it this way. Okabe all this time when he travelled to the past could have stopped WW3 and let Kurisu die regardless of the one action of changing the metal Oppa to green. You all are arguing about Okabe 2 is a different Okabe bc of the green Oppa, but of course he is that is the whole point. Okabe does all the time traveling shenanigans with Suzuha and the one thing that has to happen last is they both need to exit from the past into the time machine because otherwise the world will collapse from the big paradox of 2 Okabes and 1 Suzuha who should not exist in that world line. I am assuming when they are in the time machine they are traveling back to the same moment they left and then bam RS activates and Okabe wakes up in the hospital the end.
I was searching for this comment, I didn't get it at first but when I watched that episode someone had explained it in the comments of where I watched it, So this theory just seemed solved to me because of that one thing
There are a flaw in this video, the fact that if you think about it, there is actually only one "real" Okabe. All Okabes except the one we follow only exists as possibilities until the Okabe that resides in the current "real" worldline makes the changes and his memories are transferred to the new worldline. After all we are shown no proof that other worldines are actually "real" outside of memories. Also, remember that Mayuri and Daru in the end know nothing about Suzuha.
I think that what happens is that Okabe's Reading Steiner activated as soon as he went back to the present with Suzuha's time Machine, and his memories overwrite the memories of Okabe 2, since Steins Gate is now the "real" worldine. After all, the moment the worldine changes should be when Okabe 1 goes back for the second time to change the past, and the only Okabe who is present for that event is Okabe 1, meaning only Okabe 1's Reading Steiner can activate when the worldline is changed, but since he has to go back for the change to happen, the only moment it can happen is during the time travel, at the exact moment they're intersecting the same exact time they went back.
That would leave two plotholes though but they can both be explained:
1: Okabe being in the hospital in the Steins Gate worldline. This one is easily explained by the fact we are never told why Okabe was in the hospital and the fact Mayuri and Daru never experienced the events of operation Skuld, yet do not seem to question why he was in the hospital. It is reasonable to expect that, despite not being affected by attractor field, the Steins Gate worldline would have similarities to the Beta timeline since they come from almost identical previous events, which means Okabe could possibly end up in the hospital with similar wounds due to an accident.
2: Okabe 0 is technically the original, so his perspective should be the the "real" worldline. This one is explained by the fact Okabe 0 travels back in time before the video D-Mail is sent, meaning he won't be there for Reading Steiner to activate, meaning Okabe 1 keeps his memories, meaning he becomes the "real" Okabe by default.
so where does Okabe 0 end up exactly, did he cease to exist or he is just living as his own person in the uknown timeline? Sorry just a little confused.
@@TheRed02151 That is actually a good question. Technically he ceases to exist, since only one worldline at a time is the "real" one, but considering worldlines exist as possibilities he theoretically would have a possible future in the Beta timeline. His mission was to bring back Mayuri and Suzuha to his "present" time, and he specially promised to bring back Mayuri to Kagari, so the plan was probably to use the time machine to go back to a time after the D-Mail to the "real" Okabe is sent, ensuring that he stays in his original timeline by not being present when the D-mail is sent.
So you could say that he both ceases to exist but also has a future, even though only a theoretical one that would only become real if his worldine becomes the "real" one again for some reason.
@@TheRed02151 okabe is rewrited or discarded. S;G and all stories related to the same universe, happens inside a computer simulator, supposedly each story happens in a separate simulation, and even that, simulations can have their own nested simulations, the divergence number is just the divergence between parent and child simulations.
Those simulations can be configured with certain parameters so the science takes wacky scenarios which in turn makes having divergence in the first place, this is why all the weird things happen in all stories related to the universe, like the things on chaos head, or occulting 9. Such simulation starts in 2038 in the "real" world, so in order to reach that the computer has to build a path of events based on the real world, or nesting level of simulation if you are starting your own and you live in a simulation too, which you do not know if you live in a simulation actually.
worldline shifting is just the computer rebuilding world history after an important change in the world history and adapts around it, reading steiner is a malfunction of the simulation due to the params mentioned before so the memory data is not discarded but rewrite it.
In the end this explains that steins gate story is a closed loop story that self feeds on events that makes the simulation adjust itself.
Bonus, S;G being a simulation gives another interpretation on why Okabe "alucinates" when "time leaps" to the future in 0, due to all of them being data, a "soul" is data, so basically okabe was alive inside a pc.
@@ulisesavila2879 Thanks for the spoilers for the entire series!
Just for clarification because i see a lot of people get this wrong, this also applies to other anime like Tokyo Revengers because the japanese writers have the same way of interpreting these terminologies:
Time leap: is when the character's consciousness jumps back to his past self meaning his past self doesn't exist anymore as it is him now from the future
Time travel: is when the character physically travels back in time and his past self is stil physically present meaning they both still exist in that particular time
I mean, If I was talking about Tokyo revengers it would have a lot more than just 1 plot hole. that show's time travel has so many holes it puts every fishing net to shame.
even an attempt at fixing it would actually change the entire story from start to finish.
but yes you are 100% correct about those 2 and their differences.
Time leap is basically the butterfly effect,while time travel is the delorean like in back to future.My question is which method is okabe using because if it is time travel then yes there can be 2 okabes but if its the former only one,maybe thats the difference between steins gate and 0. one okabe used time leap while the other used actual time travel.
@@michaelwhitmire9015 I think time travel only happens when they use the actual time machine and time leap happens when they use that time microwave i can't remember what it's called
@@hish33p32 The time machine is superior to the microwave because it can send people back and fourth to the future rather than just their thoughts.With that in mind yes there can be two okabes.
Then when you include D-mail, you get the third:
-Timeline-hopping: when you mentally override the consciousness of a version of you from a reality that diverges from your own at some point in the past.
It's easy to miss the fact that they utilize 3 entirely different ways of manipulating timelines the first time watching the show, and think it's all just variations of the same principle. Timeline hopping essentially is like moving *sideways* through time. Time leaps are like rewinding back the tape on the same timeline to try new outcomes. Time Travel is still like moving 'forward' on the timeline, but looping around to an earlier point in a totally deterministic way, so not only are there two of you at once, but nothing you do in the past in this method can change the outcomes of the future you return to (aside from what Okabe does to 'trick the world').
and also... you cant just change genders by eating veggies😭😭
I don't count that one cause the show itself knows it makes no god damn sense lol
I don't think veggies changed the gender. Gender is probabilistic so eating veggies advice must have influenced it rather than veggies itself. Kinda like Butterfly effect
Sex*, not gender
@@balhaddadinn arent they the same thing
@@thegull1551 They're not. Sex is the biological status of being a male or a female, gender is more like what society defines as feminine or masculine.
Deceive your other self. Deceive the world. That is what you must do to reach the Steins Gate. Good Luck. El Psy Congroo. -Okabe Rintarou
such a fucking great line
I know it's late, but I really loved this anime and came up with an explanation when I finished s;g0 that I wanted to share with y'all.
For me, what really happens is:
Okabe 1 fixes the timeline and prevents both ww3 and the death of Kurisu. Then he and Suzuha get out of there. Okabe 2 experiences everything Okabe 1 did and deletes the database, thinking Kurisu will be dead.
When Okabe/something changes the past he completely overwrites the Okabe that was living in that timeline right? Well, he did change the past drastically, thus he could experience reading steiner if he was in the "present".
What if, while coming back with the time machine, he overwrote Okabe 2 just before disappearing like Suzuha? What if Okabe 2 was, let's say, talking to Mayuri/Daru, sad because he thought Kurisu was dead, and suddenly he got overwritten "incompletely" due to Okabe 1 disappearing? And, what if Okabe was at the hospital not because he was recovering from a stab, but because he just lost his consciousness?
I haven't read the VN, but if I remember correctly, the anime doesn't tell us WHY is Okabe in the hospital, right?
So, at the end, we have Okabe 2's body with Okabe 1's mind, basically like everytime a dmail is sent!
By the way I tried my best to write that in English but I'm not a native speaker so sorry if something's not "right" xd
shouldnt it be possible? If Okabe 2 sees Kurisu lying on the ground (thinking shes dead) he sends the first dmail and lives the three weeks where Mayuri dies over and over and then he removes all the dmails he made just to think at some point that Kurisu will die if he removes the last dmail. He then proceeds to delete it anyways like Okabe 1 did and then for his suprise he realises Kurisu is still alive. Oh I just understood why Okabe 1 cant exist lol.
lol this was hilarious
The thing is, Okabe1 and also Suzuha both can exist. When you use the time machine, you arrive in a altogether different timeline than your own. No matter what happens to that timeline, it won't make you disappear, what disappears is the timeline you came back from. Going with this, Suzuha should actually be just fine at the end, and so should "Okabe1".
In the original, on the steins gate worldline, there is only one Okabe in the end because Okabe1 is treated as being the very same Okabe2, but just older, and he simply goes back to the present slightly after the younger self leaves to save Kurisu. Just as you pointed out, Okabe1 should not be able to exist in the end because by his very definition he is the second Okabe who received the dmail from Okabe0, but from a worldline where Kurisu is dead for real. And in fact, this is not a problem because Okabe1 was never necessary to exist, he can be Okabe2 from the very beginning, meaning he can be an Okabe that received the dmail from 0, but Kurisu was never dead to begin with, he simply failed to realize she is alive. This is where the actual problem appears in the original, because they show us an actual Okabe1, who verified that Kurisu is in fact dead. They should have made him only assume she is, without fact checking, and her being just fine.
This can happen right after the last dmail is undone and Okabe reaching S;G worldline first try, but he must never check properly that Kurisu is dead, he simply needs to assume it without actually verifying (without googling Makise Kurisu death only to find nothing, or the others telling him he is tripping cause she is not dead). In addition to this, since the moment she was supposed to die and the present 3 weeks later after last dmail is undone, she must not meet the lab members, so that it won't be obvious that she did not die. Then he only needs to meet the Suzuha who left in a timemachine from Okabe0's world and save Kurisu.
For Kurisu to be saved a time machine and an Okabe with reason to save her is necessary, which was only made possible because she had to die in a timeline, but that timeline does not have to be the timeline of Okabe1, Okabe0 will do just fine, he is the only one who needs to see a Kurisu that was actually dead. He is the one who sent suzuha back and the dmail to fix it, but only after dying / disappearing to the past, so that reading steiner won't activate for him in 2036, but the worldline would actually stay with the Okabe who receives the dmail.
If we go with Okabe actually verifying she is dead (meaning he would become the Okabe1 we described), the plot will play the same way, he goes back to save Kurisu and succeeds, but when he travels to the future, he will arrive in a future where Okabe2 never had any reason to leave, because right after he deleted the last dmail, he checks that Kurisu is dead only to realize she isn't, so no need for time traveling. Meaning there would be both Okabe 1 and 2 in the timeline that Okabe1 actually exists.
@@eusebiu4506 Okabe never verifies if she is dead. He always assumes so. Okabe0 is sure of it because of the news about her death. All Okabed run away at the sight of her bloodied body without checking.
The whole point is that Okabe has to THINK she is dead, and if there was a possibility to check her body then the whole plan fails.
@@ssjokg4952 I mean after the dmail is undone, not when he sees her on the ground.
@@eusebiu4506 That Okabe doesnt verify anything either.
Remember, he has to send the accidental dmail; what Daru and Okabe erase in Alpha worldline is the dmail in the database of Echelon.
Okabe sees a bloody Kurisu, sents the dmail, gets steinered to alpha, then back to beta after Daru deletes the dmail.
THEN he has to let everything play out as before, as detailed by Zero Okabe, or else he cant possibly be already there.
The Okabe we see in the final ep discovering Kurisu in that shed never sees her again, until he and the one we have been following become one again and crossed paths with her at the very end.
I really appreciate the subtitles, as my friend is a huge anime buff but she's hearing impaired. I can show her this one!
Now I feel bad for not adding them to every video....
They do take a very long time, so I'm really glad at least the ones that I have made are useful to someone
@@APolygons2 Dont feel bad, youtubes auto captioning usually does a good enough job on its own. :) but your effort hasnt gone unnoticed
Tbh,I've never thought about what happened to Okabe 1 after deceiving Okabe 2.
This video made helped me to understand better what happened at the end of Steins;Gate,well done 👍
That makes me really happy to hear! thanks for watching :D
Hate to break it to you but the video does not explain the ending correctly
yeah a few people told me that the plot hole is the fact that suzuha disappears, but either way there is something wrong with the ending.
I've always assumed it's not okabe 1 vs okabe 2 ( that is to say multiple timelines), but actually past okabe vs future okabe (a closed loop system). Let me explain: I believe the timeline we first seen in episode 1 is the perfect timeline, aka one where both Kurisu and Mayuri live. The past Okabe is misled into believing that the unconscious Kurisu is actually dead by future Okabe, thus sending the 1st d-mail and beginning the journey. As such, the journey of Steins;Gate is more or less one of returning to the original "Steins;Gate Timeline". That's just me though. Anyone have any objections?
I do sir!
Why should suzuha keep coming back and sending him to save kurisu if she is already saved?
if kurisu was alive the first time too, then she was alive when okabe cancelled his first D-mail too. which would make the whole going back to save kurisu thing a massive prank made by suzuha.
I could buy okabe accidently doing the same thing over and over again even though kursiu is saved by not knowing that, but I can't buy suzuha coming back from the future and talking about a WW3 that doesn't exist to convince him to do it.
My take is same as the above, but instead of The Perfect Timeline it's just near perfect (as in, easiest to reach SG): Kurisu is still dead, WW3 happens. And the ending is Future Okabe reaching SG and Suzu no longer a time traveler. Is there a problem with this interpretation? I don't really know cause I'm dumdum lol
But in the first episode Mayuri gets the metal upa, so it can't "steins;gate" timeline
@@Volian0 oh yeah that's a great point, I didn't even think of that
I never thought of it like that. For me, the ending means that there is indeed one and only one Okabe. One that has the memories of Okabe 1 but never actually went through it all. Every time Okabe time-leaps, he does not go back, he sends his memories to a younger Okabe. I understand that's what happens in the ending. One last time-leap. After all, as you said, there is no way he could be there
*EDIT 21/02/23: I had to retcon a few things because I haven’t seen the series in so long so I’ll edit this message.*
I hope you get to see this! I've come to bring some light over to the subject.
- SG0 is a midquel not a prequel
- I will not use the same names you used (Okabe 0, 1, 2) because they are misleading and confusing. For this message Okabe 0 will be the Okabe from SG0, the other ones I don't have a name for at the moment
- This Okabe from 0 is known as MWC Okabe too since that’s the name of his WL (Milky Way Crossing)
- They are able to know what the next wordline % will be
- Even though there were millions of Okabe throughout history, they didn’t go through the same things. For example one Okabe experienced lines A B C D and another one could have experienced E F G H and these lines aren’t the same
- The movie and the ova are not canon, they break too many rules of this universe constantly and any argument including those is wrong
- SG worldline doesn't experience any convergence as the line is unknown and unique
The first Okabe (ep1) is the one we follow throughout the original anime (S;G), but there are an infinity of Okabe that went through that process and ended up becoming “zero”, we just happen to see the one that succeeded.
He wasn’t the smartest, he just had in his memory all the advancements all the other Okabe made.
There are 3 conditions to reach the S;G worldline (will just call it SG from now on):
- Suzuha must travel to the past
- The slap must happen (happens due to Operation Arclight and it happened multiple times, but the other conditions weren’t met)
- The video must be seen (this depends on the previous conditions)
*Why couldn't the Okabe from episode 1 watch the video?*
There is only a single worldline where this video can be watched. MWC Okabe had the knowledge about what the next wordline would be, so since he knew he’d succeed, he asked the video to be sent to that specific line. Now here is the tricky part: the video was too big just like memories, so they had to compress it somehow. But how?
Every line is like “1.23456xxxxxxxx…” where the number after the 6th decimal doesn’t represent a notable change in the line. So they used this to send the video in small parts of 32 bytes to that line (from ep 22/23) but a lot of times until the video was complete. For example, they sent it to: 1.234561 / 1.234562 / 1.234563 / 1.234564 / 1.234564 (obviously this isn’t the line and it’s longer than that) until the video was complete.
Now with all conditions met, they could reproduce the video.
Conditions 1 or 2 can happen on any of the worldlines but there is only one where all of them happen simultaneously.
The Okabe 0 we see did not receive the message when his story “started” because he is the first one to have sent this video in the first place. BUT The Okabe 0 we see IS NOT any of the previous Okabe we got to see on "season 1".
*Further explanation about the video compression can be found in the S;G after story which name I don’t remember.
That was the drive all Okabe 0s needed to come up with the plan, it was just impossible for the first one to succeed no matter what. The last Okabe 0 just took all pieces that were already in place and used them, since he had in his memory millions of years of attempts.
Moving on. After Okabe stabbed himself in the stomach, he didn't interfere with the Okabe that was going to get fooled because those 3 weeks of pain and suffering were a must. There wouldn't be a solution if there wasn't desperation in the first place, so he had to let it happen. MWC Okabe even told him to not undo anything, just fool everyone. The difference this time is that the Okabe that got fooled didn't need to actually save her.
When he was back he would soon find out that she was alive which would then trigger RS and merge our original Okabe with the one that got fooled due to physical RS (explain in another comment as I ran out of characters here).
*So, what happens when Okabe is back from those 3 weeks (one last time)?*
First you must ask yourself who triggered the time travel on that line and it was Okabe 1 (the original one). Since there was already causality, he triggers the time travel before the first D-Mail is sent which will send him to the line where this causality wasn’t interrupted.
This means that if Okabe 2 was about to send the D-Mail and go through his 3 weeks, Okabe 1 will be sent to the line where this would have happened, otherwise he'd have been stuck on Alpha which we know didn’t happen.
Here is an example: you are about to leave your house before your cat breaks a glass. You won’t know for sure if he broke it or not, you just know it might happen, but that glass was in such a risky place and the cat was looking at it, you are absolutely sure that when you are back the glass will be broken. When you’re back you are in the reality where the cat did break the glass. This is similar to the series because you leave a line into another and you already know what will happen because you know all actions lead to that moment.
For the people saying that Okabe 0 will RS to SG it won’t and that would completely annihilate the story. When he travels to save Suzu/Mayuri the line doesn’t change because it wasn’t a relevant thing for history (the line changes but past the 6th decimal which I already said doesn’t matter at the moment). That’s why the small Suzu that we see there is the one that travels to the original SG anime in Beta.
Okabe fooler fools Okabe fooled → Okabe fooled goes through the 3 weeks → when he would have been back he is replaced by the Okabe that fooled him due to RS activating (physical RS in this case).
You can use a similar concept to why Okabe 0 ended up finding Suzu and Mayu to save them, they just found it with their methods and convergence thanks to the millions of failed attempts stored in MWC Okabe’s memory.
I hope that after reading this you can finally say that Steins;Gate is flawless.
ok I pretty much knew most of this, except the physical reading steiner thing which was never mentioned in the anime or SG VN as far as I know.
but I had heard this explanation before, and I have asked the same thing of everyone,
if okabe 1 (the one who fooled) replaced okabe 2 (the fooled) with a version of reading steiner, why does he have a stab wound when getting back to the future (no reference intended)? that is straight up said in the VN and is heavily hinted at in the anime. so we can't dismiss it.
unless you mean okabe 2 (the fooled) reading steiners into okabe 1 (the one who fooled) but that would go against the rest of your explanation.
@@APolygons2 he is stabbed due to physical RS. it means his literal body traveled, so he kept the wound
@@rsGasha wait wait wait. so he replaced okabe 2, but without replacing his body?
this is very intriguing.
Hmmmm....
ok tell me where is this Physical reading steiner thing explained, I might have to play it or watch to get a grasp of what you are talking about.
because even though I understand what you are saying it doesn't fully make sense to me.... yet
@@APolygons2 while I can't provide you with a source at the moment, I bet a simple google search should suffice now you know what to search.
I'll be asking around on discord but you should research too! Just give it more thought before you commit to it. Not only does it explain the stab, but also doesn't break any of the rules, and nothing says time travel can't work like that. It's only a plothole if it goes against what's already been stablished.
If I find anything I'll reply to this again but don't wait for it anytime soon.
(P.S.: if you liked S;G you should try the other series. Chaos;Child is insane, I liked it over S;G)
Thanks for this comment, It was really clear and well explained. While reading i began to understand how little i understood about last episode
I think i have a solution, but some assumptions must be made.
Assumptions/things to consider:
-When a time machine travels to the past, it lands on a (slightly) different timeline, example: depart from 0.337581 and arrive on 0.337595. Because if this is not true, then the concept of travel to the past is useless as one cannot change timeline, nor events even with a god-like power like a time machine.
-In addition to the first point, every perturbation on the timeline (time machine arrival, reading steiner user arrival, dmail/video mail arrival, etc) causes the timeline number to "change" (or diverge) as there is a timeline without the perturbation and one with it. For example, timeline 1.130204 does not receive suzuha in time machine and we think we are on it, but when we actually are notified that she is indeed here, then that means we were always in 1.130205. with the main difference being suzuha arriving and then both timelines follow different stories.
Then to explain this possible solution. Okabe 1 arrives at 1.130205 when he erases first d-mail. But he thinks he is 1.130201(slighly different than in the series) then he receives suzuha 1 in a time machine and he thinks he now is on 1.130202, goes to the past, fails and comes back, now he thinks he is on 1.130203, then he receives the video-mail so he was always on 1.130205 (shown in anime and VN). then he goes to the past, arrives at the steins;gate timeline saves kurisu and avoids Okabe 2. Then when okabe 1 leaves to the future (and we WILL land on steins gate timeline), okabe 2's mind goes to another timeline with the first d-mail. Then another okabe (Okabe 2.5) comes back after he erases first dmail, the important part is that this okabe 2.5 must think that kurisu is dead (somehow, hide the truth from him?) and a suzuha 2 will be here (she came from a different timeline where kurisu is dead) and suzuha 2 travels with okabe 2.5 to another timeline and fails and come back to the present to a non-steins-gate timeline. Then following okabe 1 and suzuha 1 again, both arrive at the present in steins gate timeline, he is injured, and he goes to a hospital and we see ending of steins gate. And Suzuha 1 ... well she is free to live in the timeline? lmao if she travels to the past again, even if it is just 1 second, she moves outside of S;G timeline and problem solved.
Hope you like this idea!
that would work... I think? I got a little confused at the okabe 2 part but it sounds like you thought this through, and addressed the okabe 2 which the show didn't, so I'll take your word for it that this could work as well
@@APolygons2okabe 2 sends the first dmail and his mind goes to another timeline, then 2-3 weeks later another okabe's mind comes back to this timeline when deleting the first dmail. If he still thinks kurisu is dead the body of okabe 2 and mind of okabe 2.5/3 will disappear from this timeline the moment he gets into the time machine the first time.
While this is logical to come to, the Okabe who reaches stein’s gate has full recollection of all that had transpired in the series in the bonus episode where the cast goes to America.
I mean of course, because the series went with "okabe 1" being the one who reaches steins;gate.
there is also the fact that the bonus episode isn't really canon despite being very fun, but that doesn't really matter here.
Ffffffuuuuuu-
You got a point. Welp. Guess i gotta lower the score from 10/10 to 10/10
Lmao that is basically what I did
I was like, oh no, it's a little less 10 now!!!
This may be 10 months too late but I believed this was clarified in the visual novel and anime as well. The different world lines are like ropes and the threads of a rope represents the difference between each line. This is why Okabe is able to exist in the past with Mayuri and die because for all three world lines, that part of history is more or less the same. Okabe 0 does not disappear as you explain, him and Mayuri died in the past of that world line because he chose to stay there if not his reading steiner would activate resulting in him carrying forward his beta memories. Mayuri choses to stay with him and Suzuha uses the TM to go to the future where WL convergence would erase her as she expects in both WLs; this is evident from episode 12 of SG where Mayuri says he is the original Okarin. Now, to the point of the video, Okabe 1's reading steiner activates as him and suzuha move to the future and his mind takes over Okabe 2's. Okabe 2 did not disappear, he lived in this SG WL till his Okabe 1's conciousness took over and afterwards, okabe 1 would not know the history of Okabe 2 from when he saw Kurisu dead to present day. As for why he in the hospital, it was mentioned that he was in for a different reason unrelated to a stab wound and this was put as a way to show how similar the WLs are at different points. The anime follows a slightly different logic to how the VN's story goes by their choice of Okabe 0 choosing for his memories to not go forward.
The actual problem is Suzuha disappearing. Suzuha is a time traveler from previous worldline who is currently travelling on a diverging worldline, she has no reasons to disappear. Just like you go back in time and change something and go back to the future, you actually go to a whole new worldline than what you came from and you don't disappear.
Depending on when the papers get burnt the scenario of Okabe2 can be explained.
If you consider that the papers get burnt after they arrive back from saving Kurisu, then Okabe2 shouldn't be there because he would have gone back in time to save Kurisu, just like Okabe1 did. As Steins;Gate worldline divergence only begins when papers get burnt (that's the final step).
If you consider that the papers get burnt after they before, then there will be two Okabes in the same time and worldline, such a situation is un-explained and you may consider any fan theory in this case.
huh interesting, what you said about suzuha makes sense, I guess that part is wrong in one way or the other.
but what you said about okabe 2 doesn't really makes sense to me, even if the trigger is going to happen a little later, the future still should be changed.
suzuha is from the future right? so if the world is not going towards ww3, she shouldn't have a reason to come back.
From what I've seen there are different ways that the ending can be fixed/ is wrong. but bottom of the line is sadly the ending is broken in one way or another
@@APolygons2 the thing about Okabe2, if the. trigger is going to happen a little later then things will change only after that trigger.
Just like if you are going to send the dmail 5 seconds later, then the worldline change will occur 5 seconds later only when you actually send that dmail.
So, the worldline is currently heading toward ww3 and as soon as the papers are burnt, it diverges. Now what matters is when it happens
that's the thing though, the metal oppa is already not in the plane at that point. so the trigger should already be activated.
what you're saying is more like sending a D-mail 5 seconds into the future, but the world line changing 10 minutes into the future because that's when the person sees the message.
when the metal oppa changes into a plastic oppa, shouldn't the papers be already burnt in the future?
@@APolygons2 they will be burnt yes, but they haven't burnt yet.
just like you will send a d-mail for sure but you haven't done it yet.
In steins gate's world, after changing the past, the world line recontructs from past to present to future to correct anomalies and paradoxes while the consequences of the changes remains (okabe being stabbed, Nakabachi's paper burning up, WW3 avoided, Suzuha then will be born in the future). Of course u cant make 100% logic out of this but thats how it is. There is not two Okabe's after the divergence
It seems the hole seems to come from the fact that since seeing kurisu in blood causes okabe to send the dmail no matter what, the show sorta pretends that there is a complete void where nothing really exists in the first world line after okabe leaves the world line and before he comes back, in a strange way it almost treats his first dmail jump as physical timeline jumping rather that reading Steiner like the other dmails. Very strange indeed. The only other thing I can think of is that after he leaves, we see okabe 2 in the hospital because he would still need to get stabbed at some point, or else there would be a paradox, so maybe instead of ceasing to exist, okabe himself travels back to right after he first traveled back, with this time maybe kurisu had never died but okabe 2 having okabe 1s memories through reading Steiner and that's why he goes back to get stabbed or something
That is also a good explanation/theory and it would make sense.
I've always tought about the issue you just mentioned, I guess I brushed it away thinking that maybe because Okabe has the reading Steiner that maybe it made sense for that issue to exist.
The more I read these comments the more confused I get, it's like opening a box that has a smaller box in it. And that box has an even smaller box in it, and so on.
Honestly in regards to time travel, world lines, etc. I'm not that savvy or knowledgeable. But one thing that stood out to me, is that. Why couldn't have suzu gone back in time, and done all the things she wants okabe to do?
I mean, it's been established that she can go back in time and change it. Isn't she changing the past by going back just to get okabe to stop ww3? So why couldn't she have gone back, used the vending machine, knocked out makise & scared away her father, and yelled as to attract okabe's attention down there.
Honestly imo, that was a pretty big plot hole. Because in SG 0 she's freaking out about okabe not wanting to do so. Yet i'm almost 100% certain she could just go back and do it herself. Idk, I like complex endings and plot twists. But this just goes a bit too far with the complexity imo.
sorry for the late response. to put it simply, if she was the one changing the worldline, in a world that she doesn't technically exist in yet, it would create a paradox.
which suzuha of the ending explains as, "something that we can't let happen"
but that's only her on beta, in the alpha world line which is where mayuri dies, she as john titor says paradoxes aren't real. so.... the answer to your question is,
as far as THAT suzuha thinks, she can't do it due to the fear of creating a paradox.
but are paradoxes actually a thing?
Honestly, the answer is a no if we look at most of steins;gate, but the ending breaks the rules so idk what to make of it.
I'm going to be real with you, this video was pretty shit. I didn't explain my point properly at all. and even in the S;G community there isn't a single way to explain/fix the ending that most of fans agree on.
what I can assure you of is the fact that the ending breaks the rules in one way or another.
One day in the future I may make a video going into detail about everything and why it is so tricky to fix it, but as it is now, you just have to take my word for it, or read a better explanation somewhere else, since again, this video isn't well explained enough, and this is only one of many, many different ways that people have tried to fix/explain the ending.
thanks for watching though, hope you can stick around, I'm probably going to finally upload a video after six months either this or next week.
@@APolygons2 Honestly, I think you did a pretty good job explaining the ending. Like you said, it's got its fair share of plot holes. And you can't please everyone with how you think it should have ended.
thats the only moment where i question time travel. The only thing i couldnt get. But i guess the story of the anime can be true as well bc of the conciusness just going back to okabe 2. But i would love way more the interpretation u gave. It would be a "none of that ever happened" made to perfection with all of the lab members just having the memories and taking them as a dream together with okarin. It all starting again and ofc, okarin and cristina falling for each other once more ❤
Wasn't it said somewhere that only a timeline can exist at a time?
Also many say that Okabe 2 and 0 are different because 2 does not inherits 0's memory but that's probably just because Okabe 0 leaps back to 2030ish and that will be the period when his "conscience" is transferred into Okabe 2. We juts never saw it because Okabe 2' story is closed long before that
yes only one timeline can exist. but the steins;gate timeline is okabe 2's timeline. not okabe 1s'.
the main problem is that they just ignore okabe 2's existance.
what happens to okabe 1 is up for debate, but the lack of okabe 2's existence after reaching steins;gate is without a doubt a problem.
@@APolygons2 I thought that okabe 1 coscience simply transferred into okabe 2.
Also the fact that only one timeline can exist kinda take away much of the dark side of this essay. Yes, okabe 1 sacrified a lot like 0, but at the end of the day the final result is that the okabe who reached steins gate ( that being 1 or 2 is up to debate) is the only one who truly exist, and also the one where all the others converge at one point, no matter what. So we could say that at the end of the day we got a "and they lived happily ever after" ending
@@THEDIVISIONbythedivisionbell
If they never talked about the stab wound you would be completely right, but both in the anime and in the VN the stab wound exists when okabe goes back.
which 100% confirms that the okabe we see at the end is without a doubt okabe 1's body.
I guess there is room to debate about every other okabe combining into 1, but nothing in the show has ever suggested that, something like that has ever happened. so I can't really give that idea more credit than calling it an unlikely but maybe possible theory.
@@APolygons2 About the okabes coming togheter that is simply a consequence of the "only one worldline per time" rule. I mean, their consciousness would not just disappear since Reading Steiner is a thing.
Another option could be that Okabe 2 would go trough everything Okabe 1 went trough, with the exception that once he chooses to still sacrifice Kurisu in order to save Mayuri she would be fine since she wasn't actually dead thanks to Okabe 1.
Also Okabe 2 memories are technically "comparable" to Okabe 1's since they went trough identical experiences in the timeline where Mayuri kept dying (I don't recall if that was alpha or beta timeline, it's been a while since I last watched the show). The only difference beetween them, when you think about it, is that Okabe 1 also had to go trough the "save Kurisu" thing, which Okabe 2 skipped trough since "his" Kurisu hadn't been actually killed in the first place. So it could also be that Okabe 1 and 2 became one the moment Okabe 1 got out of the time machine after leaping back and the reason the union was seamless is because their memories are comparable, Okabe 1 just happens to have a bit more of journey that 2 doesn't, thus he comes off as the last Okabe standing.
Before Okabe 0's memories come to him in 2030 or around that, I guess
I think a really great representation of the timelines continuing after the time jump is re zero second season when the mc, Subaru, is going through a trial; he sees how after he dies and revives, the previous timelines still go on. I think it’s pretty cool ngl.
I've seen it and it was indeed pretty cool to see.
in steins;gate's case it's a bit different though since only 1 timeline exists at any given time. the only reason we should see what happens to okabe 2, is because the timeline that the ending happens in is his. our okabe changed okabe 2's timeline, so it makes no sense for him to not exist.
@@APolygons2 shoot that's true- steins; gate has its own unique way of showing things, huh :-)
@@APolygons2 Subaru's second trial wasn't necessarily confirmation on that there are multiple timeline all it showed was if there were multiple timelines that is how they would continue and it was also to stop Subaru to kill himself so easily like Subaru killing himself right at the start of s2. It's kinda hard to explain without getting into spoilers and it's been a while since I've read it so it may be scuffed and some details may be wrong or just forgotten/misremembered and some of it is speculation so just take it with a grain of salt if you do read this.
So in Arc 6 there is a thing introduced as books of the dead these books contain the life of the dead person if you know the person you see their memories and if you don't it's just in book format these books work by the Corridor of Memories then Od Lagna/CoM compiles souls memories and turns them into books. Anyway Subaru eventually finds his own books of the dead which wouldn't be possible if there were multiple timelines as the CoM wouldn't have these books as the world wouldn't have any memories to compile in that alternate timeline.
Wonderful. I ALWAYS love more Steins;Gate dissection videos!!!
I have to remake it, but i'm glad you enjoyed it.
Truly great series like steins;gate should never die.
I think honestly the biggest problem with the ending is that we simply don't know what Okabe 2 does and what happens to okabe 1 between that. We see the epilogue but none of the substance between which leaves the interpretation to what actually happened up in the air besides kurisu being saved being the one absolute.
yep, there is room for argument, but everything stems from the fact that okabe 2 just doesn't exist in the ending.
Honestly dude, trying to understand the steins;gate timeline always messes with my head. After my first watch through i sat down and tried to drae a straight line that made sense and just couldnt manage. Maybe ill try again someday.
I cant find any holes in your logic, it makes perfect sense. After all, okabe 0 was completely written out of existence in the end, which seems to point to okabe 1 also being lost to time.
Either way, just watching your idea of how the show shouldve ended was chilling and i loved it. Loved the video my guy. Ill be sure to check out more of your stuff!
thanks I really appreciate that :D
The plotholes are something which we can forget about when you watch the series it's close to perfection the story, the buildup , the character development , the music it even felt like we were a part of the future lab. rewatching steins Gate will just get you more invested.
i mean, even with this, its still one of the best animes i have seen, and one of, if nlt straight up my all time favorite story in fiction.
Appreciate the baked-in subtitles. youtube captions are nice but very glitchy and often just turn themselves off for no reason, so this is nice.
I was shocked to see this pop up on my feed. Steins;Gate has taken the place of top anime in my heart once I actually finished the 1st episode. I was completely hooked, after the 1st episode ended (idk what I was doing at the time, but I always picked the wrong moments to watch it and then I would fall asleep before episode 1 ended).
I've seen the entire series start to finish with the movie and OVAs about 3 times now. I already know I'm going to watch it again, but after this video, I think it will happen soon. I get really attached to anime characters so Steins;Gate was perfect for me. It's crazy how close it comes to being my #1 anime. Gintama is my #1 anime. Both shows saved my life at some point.
I'm not extremely knowledgeable on time travel and causality but Steins;Gate storyline made sense to me. I never had to question the science in Steins;Gate. After reading the comments and typing this very long message, I think I processed enough information to see the issue talked about in the video 😅. Excellent video. It's nice to see all the Okabes explained, I never seen the anime dissected this way.
We have the same top 2 anime🔥🔥🔥
We don't actually know why SG timeline Okabe was in a hospital. Because there is only 1 timeline active at a given time and reading steiner overwrites his mind... Okabe 1 mind (yeah only mind) replaced Okabe from SG timeline three weeks after the incident with Kurisu. Okabe from the SG timeline just happened to be in a hospital (for whatever reason, not that wound from another timeline) when his mind was suddenly overwritten by Okabe 1.
That also means that if zero Okabe ever decided to return back to 2036 with Suzuha and Mayuri he instantaneously triggered his reading steiner and did overwrite SG-1 Okabe AGAIN in 2036 of SG timeline (before that moment all those years there was Okabe 1, who did overwrite original SG timeline Okabe)
i'm pretty sure they do say he was in the hospital from the stab in the visual novel so...
you could still argue okabe 2 was stabbed for a different reason, but thats pretty damn far fetched. if not better, its not worse than my fix though. so i give you credit for that.
no if you play Steins;Gate 0 you'll see that there's many world lines at play and not all overwrite the current one, it's a bit funky I know
to unravel this thread a little further, in the visual novel when you cross paths with kurisu again she bursts into tears and thanks him for saving her life. Implying that if this was a timeleap or overwrite or okabe forcing his consciousness to the steins;gate timeline, whatever, that this timeline's okabe STILL got his wounds from stepping in to protect Kurisu.
That doesn't necessarily disprove the theory, as the s;g timeline is not limited to the rules of convergence, and could simply mean this timeline's okabe stumbled across the fight and stepped in to protect her anyways, and by some other circumstance she was unable to see him to the hospital after that. But that is ultimately a flimsier explanation.
My honest explanation has always been that okabe "escaped" the attractor fields and laws of convergence, and formed a whole new timeline when he returned in the machine, therefore not actually displacing an existing okabe as he did it. I felt like that's how the game tried to push the explanation, because that's how my mind took it until now.
@@Gerolix if I remember correctly, they are, but only one at a time can be active. Others exist in a hypothetical form, containing information about all ivents of the specific timeline, but not really existing as a living reality. When something triggers convergence "main" timeline changes to another, becoming a "living" one, while placing previous to the hypothetical state
@@reikolight yes true, but the whole premise of the series is thatthose hypothetical world lines have/had an impact on the current one
I found the same plothole 2 years before you made this video and posted about it on reddit to which most people dismissed and complained about the other things I listed as plotholes that weren't but they all avoided this. I am glad someone got it out there
this video kinda sucks and even has a major error but yeah the point is there.
I'm going to make an actual good video on the topic within the next year.
also please check some of my newest videos if you have the time, i swear i have gotten so much better than this videos quality lol
I always felt like something doesn't make sense but my brain just dies when I try to think of why and I still don't really understand exactly the issues and what would solve them other than I know something is wrong. I just get more confused the more I think about it. Does Kurisu even ever die? In the first episode before everything, you can hear Okabe's scream meaning a 2nd Okabe is already there in the past. Doesn't that mean that the only way Kurisu ever died in any timeline was because Okabe accidentally killed her? So why does Okabe ever have to return to the past to reach Steins;Gate? Hasn't the timeline just always been Steins;Gate? So, the only reason he ever finds her in a pool of blood was because saving her would mean Mayuri's death, but he would never have to save her if she never dies. Ugh, I don't get it...
Well I feel like this goes back to 0 okabe.
The okabe we hear scream in the beginning is 0 okabe who fails to save kurisu thus we follow omabe 1. But then that goes back to the point of the video of what happens woth okabe 2 and potentially 3, 4, 5 and so on
the first okabe is okabe 0.
so this whole, plan of deceive yourself hasn't happened yet.
the next okabe is okabe 1, which goes back again and actually saves kurisu.
now problem is, unlike how okabe 0 passes the torch to the next one, that doesn't happen with okabe 1.
on a technical level, in the next generation, which is okabe 2s, when he reaches ep 22, he should realize that kurisu is alive, and suzuha should have no reason to come back since WW3 has already been stopped.
problem is, the show just forgets about okabe 2 for some reason.
I've been thinking for hours how i can make it make sense but it also don't make sense when i try to make it make sense. I've been typing sentences after sentences turning my thoughts into words. In the end it's like solving a paradox. Might have to think about this more. Very interesting to solve.
Throw out the Divergence Meter and the Attractor Field theory. Both of these are theoretical. Divergence Meter shows the percentage or the position of what worldline Okabe is in and only he can observe it. Attractor Field theory is the infinite number of worldlines that could exist. Don't think about this.
Now think about the number of times Okabe sent D-Mails. Everytime he succesfully changed the past, his Reading Steiner activates. For what does his Reading Steiner activates? To adapt to the change of the world being rebuilt. Instead of thinking about how Okabe jumps from one worldline to another, I propose that the entire world itself is rebuilt to adapt to the change of the causality. In other words, the Reading Steiner is the ability to observe the change of the world.
Logically, everyone including Okabe should not be able to observe the change of the world but in this story, he has the ability to observes it and therefore remembers.
Imagine a scenario if Okabe1 met Okabe2. What would happen? Would the entire world collapse or will it adapt by letting there be 2 Okabe in the same worldline? I'd say the latter. But doing so will cause Okabe to move to a different worldline. This can be undone by going back in time with the time machine. This is also perhaps the reason why Okabe0 and Suzuha was able to send Okabe1 to the past. The mistake can be undone.
Now back to the problem. In the story, it is implied that Suzuha and the Time Machine disappears while Okabe got hospitalized for a month. During that time, he managed to get the badge to be made probably thanks to Daru. He thought that Kurisu might have gone back to America but she still is in Japan. Well she never went back to America in the first place because of the issue with her dad.
Back to topic, As they try to go back to the future, the world rebuilts and at the same time Okabe's Reading Steiner activates. Suzuha and the Time Machine disappears and suddenly Okabe comes to himself in a hospital. The entire world was rebuilt to adapt to the causality and the new convergence, which caused Suzuha and the Time Machine cease to exist. To rephrase it, Suzuha and the Time Machine disappearance and Okabe ending up in hospital was the result of the world being rebuilt. The past was changed but not the way we saw it. The world itself was rebuilt to fit the cause and effect. In this newly built world, there is no Okabe2 to observe Kurisu's death. It is now a world with a history of Okabe pulling a plastic upa and saving Kurisu from being killed.
In the story, it was shown number of times where Okabe comes to himself in a different place than where he initially was or when the IBN 5100 disappeared after Moeka's D-Mail which implies a change in causality and effect. The same thing happened when Okabe went back to the future. The world is rebuilt, Okabe observes the changes and comes to himself in a hospital.
The world is rebuilt when a causality from the past is changed. But why does the world did not rebuilt after Okabe successfully saved Kurisu and keeping the metal upa? Why does it rebuilt only when they are going back to the future? Unlike D-Mail where Okabe's Reading Steiner instantly activates and the effect of changed causality can be instantly noticed because *he's in the future of the unknown past of which has been changed*. By successfully saving Kurisu and taking away the Metal Upa, the future has become different. As Okabe arrives to the future, the world rebuilds itself to cut off any paradox and create the most fitting causality that would produce the effect or the outcome of where Kurisu lives and Time Machine is no longer being developed. I kept getting confused writing all this. Compare this paragraph to any time where Okabe shifted into another worldline and perhaps it would make sense.
In conclusion, Okabe's ability Reading Steiner is actually the ability to observe the world, and being able to remember previous world he was in is just something that comes together. Suzuha and the Time Machine disappearances are caused by the world being rebuilt as they go to the future with changed causalities. This forces the world to rebuild itself to create similar causality in order to produce the effect of where Kurisu survives and Time Machine never being developed without carrying any paradoxes which is in this case, the existence of Beta Suzuha, Time Machine and the 2 Okabe in the same time period.
what part doesn't make sense ?
@@JackyyChan the disappearance of suzuha and time machine and the activation of okabe's reading steiner. well i made it made sense to me to basically "okabe reading steiner activated" + "reading steiner is not what you think it is".
@@garakut3473 i wrote a full explanation (and timeline in reply) in my comment if you sort by new
If you wait until the release of anonymous;code, they introduce the concept of world layer (basically a simulation) and it was stated that steins;gate is in a world layer below anonymous;code. In other words, all the events in steins;gate was a just a simulation. Therefore, Okabe disappearing in the movie or in the steins gate timeline can be described as a bug from the perspective of anonymous;code.
that sounds really interesting.
i will read all of aciadv as soon as i get the time.
Steins;Gate is in the same layer as Anonymous;Code. Well, and above and below too, the layers dont seem to fluctuate very much between each other, only when far apart they probably do
I feel like something is amiss in this explanation but it's been more than a year since I last watched steins;gate so idk. Maybe I will comment what made me feel like this after rewatching it again.
i dont see why suzuha disappears. they should travel together from the same worldline out of the same time machine, and the suzuha of the new worldline never comes back to the past to meet them so theres just 1 suzu.
1. I mean the next suzuha will gets born in 7 years, so unless our suzuha dies in that time, they very well could meet.
2. read the pinned comment
@@APolygons2 yeah sure they could meet if she waited long enough, but in the comment i said "and the suzuha of the new worldline *never comes back to the past* to meet them"
I believe this could be fixed with lines from Suzuha instead.
A Line such as, My Existence isnt Permitted at least in this form in the stines gate worldline Unlike you Okabe, Your Mental Ability to adjust to different world lines with preserved memories means your History won't be Rejected By Stiens Gate.
Followed By, See you in 8 years in whatever form i end up taking.
As stiens gate Rejects the Existence of the Strong warrior suzuha based on the fact of she doesnt exist in the future in this form and as such Doesn't have a Reference point in the stines Gate Worldline to anchor himself around
Specifically Okabe 2s perception of The death of kurisu causes him to send the text to Daru Kickstarting him into the loop of history that Okabe 1 went through and due to the matching they effectively Collapse into a single wave Function as just Okabe rather then Diverging (and if the message only works 2 times in the period of kurisus death then 0 Gets Looped in as well but self Erases when an Okabe Trapped in the cycle Reaches Stine's Gate And Ultimately due to compatibility with Okabes timeline collapse into 1 consciousness rather then being Effectively pushed out of Stine's gate which because the Okabe in the Stine's gate worldlines perception is kurisu is dead leading him to Text Daru and time traveling to the Alpha Attractor field
I was thinking about another mistake, if we think about it, Okabe tried 2 times to save Kurisu, and the first one was a failure, so, how does he come back again, without finding another himself? let me explain better, it is as if they had totally canceled the first failure, right? imagine how complex it would have been if there had been as many as 3 Okabe in the building on the second attempt to salve Kurisu
that happened because the act of going back a second time changed the timeline.
the first time okabe 1 was technically still okabe 0 and was in the same timeline.
but since the 2nd time was a new thing that hadn't happened, it would be in a new timeline. which is why the other okabe wasn't there.
@@APolygons2 right! Thanks!
bro went HARD WITH THAT ENDING WOAH
Reading this comments is hilarious. Stein's gate was one of my first animes like 2 years ago, so I don't remember a lot. I thought I had a grasp from the story still though. But now I think I know less about the series than before I entered to this video
Edit: I had an introspective stein's gate night plus one friend explained me the SG timelines. Now I get it. Okabe 1 replacing okabe 2 in the Stein's Gate timeline makes no sense. Your true ending is also much better. Great video
the ending is absolute nightmare, the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets.
I will have to make a new video actually going through everything, since this one is both rushed, and has an error in it.
@@APolygons2 what's the specific error you mention?
@@fromant65 The fact that suzuha's disappearing logic is also flawed.
so while the problem of okabe 2 being unpresented stands, what happens to okabe 1 is not "disappearing".
He would probably have to go to some random timeline like how mayuri and suzuha did in 0 to not meet their past self.
he would have to do the same to not meet with okabe 2.
The only thing that bothers me in Steins;Gate is that they "defrag" terabytes of data in a black hole into a few dozen bytes. None of that is even comprehensible jargon, let alone possible.
Even being extremely generous and replacing "data compression" with time dilation to instead solve a transfer rate and window-of-opportunity problem with the Kerr black hole, their timing would have to be so perfect and precise, and they'd probably require an extremely long time both sending and receiving the data before and after the transfer.
the thing about writing about science concepts that don't exist yet like time travel is, it doesn't have to fully make sense.
It just needs to be close enough to be somewhat believable.
most shows don't even get that far, on the grand scheme of things, steins;gate is actually on the high end of well researched sci-fi shows.
the concepts aren't as fleshed out as something like primer, but the time travel is a lot more exiting for it. so I Actually think SG has the perfect balance when it comes to it's accuracy in science.
@@APolygons2 True. I suppose I know so little about physics that I can accept the nonsensical physics concept without knowing any better. But I know a lot about computer science, and that particular concept seems way less researched from what I could tell.
I think you’re confused with the show’s concept of time travel. So what you think is that there’s Okabe 1 and 2 and whatnot -> there’s only one Okabe in the grand scheme of the entire timeline EVEN if there are multiple Okabe’s existing at the same time (yes hold on now).
The way time works in the show is that there’s no “remove reason for existing” paradoxes. In the VN I believe it’s briefly explained that such encounters have happened before when the other nations were experimenting with time travel and that it induces headaches for the parties involved.
The reason why the paradox doesn’t exist = all the events that happened in the previously timeline DON’T GET ERASED. If you were to think of time as a loop and questioned stuff like how X must exist now in this world if he killed his father before he was born is simply that the events of X being born in the previous timeline would still be recorded in the loop and X time-travelling in itself is also a loop. The process is entirely deterministic - it’s fated to happen (the act of time-travelling IS part of the loop) and is known to us as “the choice of Steins;Gate”. Time travel itself isn’t actually parallel - it’s all still in one straight deterministic line in the end, but obviously it’ll get a bit too complex for the viewer if they tried to explain it more accurately like “we’re gonna time travel exactly where we are right now in the deterministic point in the grand scheme of the timeline but from our relativity = going back to the past”.
Some people have also questioned why Okabe didn’t just simply save Kurisu directly instead of letting himself have to see her in a pool of blood.
He COULD have let that happen, but there’s a point where Okabe had explained that he wants himself to remember all he had to go through in the d-RINE-mail - if he were to let that happen, then when the Reading;Steiner activates, ALL his memories of the Alpha worldline would get erased. He doesn’t want that to happen. He wants it such that his future (but relatively past) self would remember all the fun memories + all the hard work he did in the Alpha worldline, because those events were very real to him. If he let that happen, it’s not like the events of the Alpha wordline would not have happened, just that future = relative past Okabe wouldn’t be able to remember them. Then there’s also the wonky issue with convergence theory that Okabe is FATED to see Kurisu lying in a pool of blood, but we don’t really know for sure if that holds true because Okabe had only tried to save her twice (small sample size issue) whereas we know for sure Mayuri’s death was a convergence point because he’s tried over 1000+ times, so the former theory of him wanting to retain all the memories of Alpha worldline seems more probable.
The sad thing though is that in S;G worldline, Okabe would NOT remember the trauma and hardwork he’d done in the S;G 0 worldline. There’s also three probable endings that were unexplained at the end of S;G 0 (left to viewer interpretation perhaps).
1. Okabe saves Mayuri and Suzuha from distant past. Okabe brings them back to his present time just right after he left to go look for them via either an upgrade to his time-machine having three seats instead of two -> or fix their time-machine and brought spare fuel so they can time-travel back to “present” and he can time-travel back as well via his own machine (which still has fuel). The lab members can have a teary reunion after a long long long time of not seeing each other ever since rooftop bazooka incident. They then send the RINE videos to revive Hououin Kyouma + give intel on the metal upa being critical. Now we see Okabe Steins;Gate worldline POV in 2010 but if this were to happen then come 2025 S;G Okabe would have his memories overwritten by S;G 0 memories, and you’d have to pray Maho and Kurisu perfected and advanced their neuroscience research doing “save points” so that even if Okabe memories were overridden - they can merge it together so he can now remember both S;G and S;G 0 memories and maybe he can tell them all the stories that actually happened for them to get to this worldline. Some may say 2025 S;G 0 Okabe is meant to die and that’s why he has to disappear from the timeline but the moment they send that RINE to the past his supposed death won’t matter bc we’d be in S;G worldline already bypassing that convergence.
2. Same as above except Okabe stays behind in the distant past while Mayuri and Suzuha board the ship he used to get there to safely return to “present”. After Mayuri and Suzuha return to the present -> they send the RINE messages. This theory is meant to satisfy the thought that Okabe should disappear from 2025 timeline effectively “killing” him. This one doesn’t make much sense to me because of the last sentence in theory 1 + I highly doubt Mayuri would let Okabe die all alone in the distant past.
3. Same as before except Okabe still goes back to the present with Mayuri and Suzuha and time-travels again to a nearby-past (can’t go too far back because butterfly effects get worse the longer a change in the past goes on - don’t want drastic changes in the past because same reasons for wanting to remember Alpha worldline, maybe 1960s or smth) and bing chilling there like what granny Suzuha did in Alpha wordline when she lost her memories. This would satisfy the 2025 Okabe must disappear to bypass death theory. Issue with this ending would be that it’ll be sad bc S;G Okabe wouldn’t remember all the effort he had to go through in S;G 0 worldline because there’s no 2025 S;G 0 Okabe to activate his Reading;Steiner from.
Ok I pretty much knew all that.
When I said okabe 0, 1 and 2, I meant versions of okabe that would have different memories.
okabe 0 would have a different history from okabe 1, made by the impact of okabe 0 sending a message to the past which changed the time line. when I said a "different okabe" I just meant the next generation that was impacted by the one before it.
just as you said, even though only one timeline exists at a time, the previous ones can still have an effect on the active timeline. so I was explaining it in a way that, when X timeline changes the past and creates a new timeline, a new okabe is created, since he would experience different things from the previous version.
so okabe 1 would be different because he would go back a second time to save kurisu, which was made possible by okabe 0 message.
and okabe 2 should have figured out that kurisu is alive after the ep22 events of him going back to his original timeline, which is thanks to okabe 1 saving kurisu and stopping WW3 in this timeline.
So, just it's the exact same case as okabe 0, with the only difference being that unlike okabe 0, okabe 1 doesn't fuck off into space.
which leaves room for the argument of him replacing okabe 2's body with reading steiner, but the fact that he has a stab wound breaks that theory. which means okabe 2 is missing.
Just imagine the full story from the POV of the okabe we see in ep 24 and you'll start to see what I'm talking about. the active timeline was his, the steins;gate was his timeline, yet he is nowhere to be seen.
it's like if okabe 0 changed the past by time travel, instead of the video D-mail thing, came back to the future, and okabe 1 didn't exist.
@@APolygons2 Okabe 2 doesn't actually go mia. Okabe 1 memories R;S into Okabe 2 as you said, because when Okabe 1 saved Kurisu, she saw him get stabbed and thus the world needs to preserve that observed event.
Seeing an Okabe getting stabbed now becomes a convergence event because of Kurisu seeing that. Much like Okabe tricking himself to see that Kurisu was killed, Kurisu is also tricked into seeing that an Okabe was stabbed. The world then reconstructs itself for that convergence to happen and Okabe 2 actually does get stabbed -> but he doesn't remember how he actually got stabbed (muggers for example) because by the time he woke up in the hospital, R;S had activated and he only remembers Okabe 1's events.
Reasons why Suzuha might have said we need to get you to the hospital is that she doesn't have full understanding of time-travel since she's just a young soldier.
Now this begs the question for where Okabe 1 fucked off to - maybe he'd gone back to the same exact timeline where Kurisu was still dead except because now she actually isn't - while the timemachine is in the process of travelling back he disappears into thin air along with Suzuha and the time machine the moment the clock ticks past convergence event = Nakabachi's papers burning up, and at the same time R;S-ing his consciousness into sleeping Okabe 2 (R;S trigger when papers burn up).
Whereas Okabe 0 time travelling back to 2025 with Mayuri is completely fine because they hadn't sent the RINE yet + no observer could record Mayuri and co in distant past so just like in Loki they're pretty much hidden in the timeline (we assume here whatever rocks they moved in distant past weren't significant enough at least for 10000 years ish to change present events Okabe 0 had experienced)
Adding to this just to clear up confusion:
- R;S only activates when the worldline changes significantly enough. This is why Okabe 0 can go to the distant past to look for Mayuri and go back to the present because this wasn't a significant enough event to alter history.
- Dr Nakabachi's papers burning up is the real significant change in history, not seeing Kurisu "die". Therefore it is possible for Okabe 1 to coexist in a worldline with Okabe 2 IF he didn't hop back into the time-machine to try and travel forward in time where the world lines have already diverged significantly enough to activate R;S (papers burning up).
@@barreltitor1419 that is a completely valid argument, and it could very well be an explanation.
I can't take it for fact since the show doesn't dive into it, but it does make sense.
what you wrote actually made me think of something.
what would happen, if okabe 1 stayed for a little longer, and was there when okabe 2 sends the d-mail.
how would reading steiner work if there are 2 okabes?
I feel like that would be an extremely interesting concept. if the show ever gets another entry, I hope they dive into it.
@@APolygons2 very cool idea! I'd assume both Okabes would continue to coexist and both their R;S would get activated once the D-mail gets sent if we were to follow the existing time travel rules, since R;S is really just remembering the events from the prev worldline and isn't exclusive to anybody (it doesn't have priority queue or whatever it kind of runs parallel in everyone just that Okabe has the strongest ability).
Except maybe if that were to happen, it might not necessarily be the alpha worldline anymore. SERN learns the existence of time-travel via D-mail and maybe someone eventually figures out that there are 2 Okabes and take interest and connect the dots and lead to a different outcome in the future.
If you haven't already, try watching the drama-CD play throughs! They're set in alternative (non-canon) worldlines such as Beta, Gamma, etc :-) It's like Steins;Gate what if episodes like what if Okabe = a rounder
what? nono there is no okabe 1, 2 or 3
its always the same. Once the timeline changes, everything is cancelled, there is only one timeline
the one 0, 1, 2 is just based on the events they go through. it makes it easier to explain.
okabe 0, is okabe when he goes through the events of steings;gate 0.
okabe 1 is when he goes back a second time to save kurisu.
and okabe 2 is the one after okabe 1, and lives in the timeline where kurisu was saved by okabe 1. so when he reaches the ep 22 part of the story and saves mayuri, he realizes that kurisu is actually alive, and suzuha never comes back since WW3 has already been stopped.
again, only one time line exists at a time, but the 1 time line changes through out the story. and the numbers are just there to indicate that.
I don't get it, how is this any different from what happens in the show? Okabe, Kurisu and Mayuri all survive in the Steins;Gate worldline, so... isn't that just the same?
well yes and no.
they still would all be alive, it's just that a different version of them would be the ones reach who steins;gate.
like. what happened to the cast of steins;gate 0?
imagine that. but it happens twice. once to okabe 0, and once to okabe 1.
Okabe 1 & 2 are the same okabe, we know this because we hear him scream at the beginning of the show, that is why he went to check out the murder in the first place, his text about the murder pushes him out of steins;gate causing him to go through the whole show
that is not true.
the simplest proof for it is the plastic upa,
if they were the exact same, with the same memories, the upa in ep1 would also be plastic instead of metal.
those 2 being different, means the 2 okabes have different memories. hence they are different.
I have been trying to understand the paradox you suggest and I will try to answer it. However, I may have misunderstood what you are saying, so please correct me if i am wrong.
Suzuha disappears because she eliminated the reason she boarded the time machine and is paradoxical in the sg world line. Okabe1 should also disappear in a similar way if he caused Okabe2 to never send the first d-mail to daru. Okabe1 does not disappear because the events of the original steins gate will still commence (Okabe sends the d-mail that provokes ww3, causing the story of s;g and making suzuha exist, before confirming whether Kurisu is alive or dead). Thus Okabe2 will still leap into the worldline where Kurisu is spared by the time machine crashing into the conference building, regardless of whether she was alive when he found her.
NOTES:
It is impossible to assume that okabe0 perishes when okabe1 saves kurisu. I believe that is just a fan theory to make s;g0 a little less depressing.
Some people even claim that Suzuha does not just disappear, but uses the remaining fuel in the time-machine to travel to a random era (this is a viable option as expressed in s;g0)
If this is true, then suzuha is merely sacrificing herself to protect the s;g worldline and tells a lie to okabe to keep him from feeling guilty. (This is very plausible to me because suzuha has a knack for self-sacrifice when she her mission is over)
I believe there is no basis for people not being able to meet their past selves. Surely seeing your past self would cause uncontrollable future, similar to how an experiment done without control is inconclusive. I believe suzuha is not omniscient, this comment was an error (possibly a white lie or caution told to her by okabe0 to keep her exploits consistent) , so she cautions okabe to avoid self interaction as it causes another split in the worldline which can have uncontrollable outcome, and possibly (probably) make the mission unsuccessful.
Here is a theory I found on SE that seems to answer your question in a much more completely and comprehensively than my ramblings.
anime.stackexchange.com/questions/31484/why-does-suzuha-disappear-when-travelling-back-to-the-present?answertab=createdasc#tab-top
well here's the thing.
while yes okabe 2 will still go through everything that okabe 1 did go though due to him still thinking kurisu is dead, the whole: "going back in time to save kurisu thing" will never happen for okabe 2.
simply because the WW3 has already been stopped in his original timeline by okabe 1, so suzuha will never see okabe 2 with the goal of stopping the future.
now about the suzuha disappearing thing being a lie, that is indeed very possible and would explain why okabe doesn't disappear.
but there is 1 last problem. even if okabe can meet his past self, okabe 1 is from a different time line. so on a technical level, where he lands at the end IS okabe 2s' time line, steins;gate.
so mayuri and daru shouldn't be waiting for him. it should be another timeline, with another okabe, another daru and another mayuri.
my point which I didn't explain well in the video, was that okabe 2 is the one who is originally from the sg timeline, with the difference that he never has to go back to save kurisu.
so if we assume that what suzuha says about disappearing is BS, there are 2 ways the show can end.
1. he goes off to a different timeline, to not meet his other self, just like how mayuri and suzuha had to do that at the end of 0.
2. the "not being able to meet yourself" is also somehow bs and now we have 2 okabes in the same timeline.
@@APolygons2 "so mayuri and daru shouldn't be waiting for him. it should be another timeline, with another okabe, another daru and another mayuri. "
This I feel is fundamental to the paradox you have found. I will (in the spirit of discussion) try to disprove it.
Importantly, when Okabe returns from his first attempt to save kurisu, but fails to either save her or destroy the ww3 papers, he trys to return to the present, he is greeted by mayuri and daru just like your comment. However, when okabe returns after successfully saving kurisu, we explicitly DO NOT witness the time machine landing and okabe meeting daru and mayuri the second time in the show (it cuts straight to him in the hospital.)
theory 1.
I believe the show writers knew about this possible paradox beforehand and purposefully imply that when okabe returns for the second time, the watcher can imagine that he finds nobody waiting for him atop the radio tower. He admits himself to the hospital and all is well.
I think I understand your paradox a little more now: if okabe returns to the same worldline that he left from (kurisu dead), which only makes sense because it is where he it is the only worldline that he is missing from and is the one he returns to the first time, then if okabe saves kurisu, then the act of returning to that same worldline would cause him to land in a world where there would be an different okabe (who is pleasently suprised) to find that reverting the last d-mail does not actually kill kurisu like be believed and would never take a time machine into the past to save her.
theory 2.
The second theory is that when we see the scene fade cuts from suzuhas final farewell to the hospital, we see okabe kinda disappear as well. The time machine, suzuha, and okabe all kinda disappear at the same time. Okabe then has a reading steiner moment (like the original d-mails but not the memory compression device) that merges the time-machine okabe with the pleasently-suprised-kurisu-not-dead okabe like has happened so many times in the past. (like how telling your past self lottery ticket numbers will teleport you to a different worldline but overwrite the memories so that you cannot remember buying the lottery ticket). This overwrite mechanic explains why okabe does not remember being suprised that kurisu is not actually dead, but can still remember travelling in the time machine.
With the disappearece of suzuha, the time machine disappears too, and okabe is instead trasported via reading steiner.
THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS A STAB WOUND, so in a way, you are totally right. If you disregard the hospital scene (maybe one minute), i think everything is consistent. You can also believe that okabe managed to get a stab wound someway else due to convergence (like how mayuri always dies, even if you perfectly prevent it). Otherwise you can refer to theory 1.
Also, if you havent done so already, read the SE link because it is also quite convincing imo.
@@APolygons2 if Suzuha doesn't come to stop WW2
she'll still come to stop the future tyranny rule of Sern in the alpha attractor field where Mayuri dies every time
which leads to the events in the first half of the anime
.
also the movie is so wrong
except for Moeka's end Nae flashback that got changed in the anime,
it's full of bs non cannon
there can only be 1 worldline at a time in a said world
maybe there can be parallel worlds
but not in the way the worldlines are introduced in the VN/Anime for the most part*
it's like a disk
there can only be 1 💿 at a time
many viewers often confused different worldlines when everytime Okabe jumps between them to parallel worlds
which is not the case.
when Okabe tricked his other him
*Do note the difference between time travel and time-leap
For time-leap, Okabe simply turns back time.
For time travel, the Okabe disappears from the "present" and appears in the "past" of the same running worldline
This means that there are two "Okabe"s in the "past", one that is supposed to exist on that time in same world line basically the past self of him as the worldine history dictates
and the other that has time travelled back to the past from the future of the same worldine.
Having said so, should the time-travelling Okabe come into contact with the original Okabe, a time paradox would occur. It is not clear what a time paradox would entail; Suzuha only describes it as “dangerous”.
.
As for 0 Okabe
his counsciousness didn't synchronize with our Okabe
since RS didn't meet the conditions
he was outside the time period travelling back to save suzuha and mayurui to fullfill the requirements of S;G
@@M-yue882 I'm going to be honest I didn't read the past the few lines because you got a major thing wrong from the start, and I already know the movie makes 0 sense, so I don't really need convincing on that.
"future tyranny" only happens in the alpha worldline. the one that mayuri gets killed in.
meaning suzuha won't come back for that either.
the whole point of the steins;gate timeline is that, it's the timeline where none of those tragic futures happen.
it's where both mayuri and kurisu live. that was the whole point. if the "future tyranny" still happened, then what was all that tragedies and sacrifices for?
@@APolygons2 i think we both got a misunderstanding on each other's replies maybe?
i mean
i did mention in my comment itself how alpha worldline is where mayuri dies and all that happens
i know very well that Steins;Gate
is the queer case from the > 1% worldlines
in which the negative peculiarities from the usual beta and alpha atttractor field wordlines cancels each other without being overly different
e.g Okabe has still to see Kurisu covered in blood
mhm
i forgot what was your point the one i was specifically replying to
i have to reread this section again lol
I think we are all missing the point time is not linear there multiple possible that exists so at the end when we that okabe reached steins gate and had an happy ending doesn't meant everything played out well the other parallel time line still exists where Mayuri dies and another where makise dies they still exists at the end what we say is the ending of the original okabe from season 1 of steins gate helped by the okabe from steins gate 0 which help change the future and save both of them but that doesn't mean the alpha and beta timeline seize to exists they still exist and so does the okabe of that respective time lines
in steins;gate only one timeline exists at any given time, everything else is just "possiblities"
think of the how the okabe 0 message only activated when he existed in the future. or how when farris or ruka remember the last timeline, they only remember that specific one before the shift.
I think the reality of it is even darker. Nobody ceased to exist. No timelines got erased, because that's not how time works. He simply moved between timelines, strictly through memory transfer at first, but physically with the bigger machine. Okabe 0 remains in his timeline, possibly believing his plan failed, because what happened for him already happened. And there's more than Okabe 1 and 2 in the show, every time the device is used a new timeline is made. One where he has the memories of an Okabe from another timeline. Every death that occurred did so in its own timeline, unerased. Every traumatized Okabe remains, questioning why they continue to exist in that timeline after using the device. The only plot hole, in my opinion, was having someone be "erased" at all. But I chalked that up to some quirk of the machine itself rather than being a misunderstanding of the physics of time.
Okabe from 0, as you called him, was very aware that his plan wouldn't fail.
The show states almost explicitly that there is only one timeline, I'm pretty sure. Time travel in steins gate is essentially like resetting a chessboard. The universe is reordered around the changes that were made. The old timeline becomes a distant inaccessible past and the new timeline becomes 'active'.
So what actually happens is when someone alters time in steins gate, everything in the universe is instantly destroyed and remade to reflect the changes. It's still pretty dark but it's not multiverse.
@@skyfox585 I had to look that up because that's not what I remember, but that is one theory that is suggested. Okabe also states the possibility of the multi-verse theory early on and there's even imagery showing how paralel timelines would exist and how one could travel from one timeline to another. That's one of the things I liked most about the anime as it is, I believe, the most likely case if time travel were ever to be possible. The multiverse theory effectively eliminates most if not all paradox possibilities by keeping the time traveler as a separate entity from that timeline's history and future. So the grandfather paradox isn't possible because your relation to your grandfather would remain unchanged regardless of what happens to your grandfather in the new timeline if you were to travel there. But I digress.
One of the really cool things about the anime and the manga is that it touches on multiple theoretical possibilities, showing that there was some meticulous research in creating the series. The idea of the active timeline, as I understand it, is similar to schrodinger's cat. The active timeline is the "only active" timeline because it is the only one the observers are capable of observing. In this case, the "observer" being Okabe and the other time traveling characters followed by the viewers of the series (us). However, there are a few problems with the idea that the universe itself is what's moving. Namely there is no way their device has enough power to rearrange the entire universe and such a theory would, or at least should, eliminate the apparent problem with fixed moments in time such as Shiina's reoccuring death.
That said, I think one of the cool things about the anime is that it proposes answers without settling on the question. Time travel happens, but how is explained with possible explanations instead of a definite "this is the way, the only way, so this is how it works." Which means it could be a case of one active timeline and the others are merely theoretical, it could be that there is a multiverse with observers observing no change in the "inactive" timelines, or there could be another explanation for what's happening. One of the best parts of the anime, in my opinion, is the fun scientific and philosophical discussions it can lead to.
the thing is that only 1 timeline exists or is active at any given time.
think about how other charactets could experience reading steiner while having the memories of both timelines.
or how the message okabe 0 send to okabe 1 only activated when he existed the future.
neither of these would make sense if all the timelines actually existed, all the time.
@@APolygons2 I think I addressed that in my reply to HussyProductions. One active timeline in the same sense as Schrodinger's Cat being both alive and dead. Only one can be observed at a time. If the others were truly and objectively inactive, having multiple time travelers such as Suzuha and Okabe existing simultaneously also wouldn't make sense since she'd have to have come from a timeline that wasn't "active" at any point. Except it was active for her, because that's the one she was observing. So it appears the unobserved timelines are in fact still active, but it could still be argued that deviations from the timelines are inactive until activated through the deviation, that meaning time travel. Once activated though, we also have no evidence to suggest the timeline would deactive upon activating a new timeline. Hence my first comment regarding how dark the anime appears when considering the multiverse theory.
What if Okabe's destiny was to get in a coma not only in 2025 but also in other timelines and (not every but) multiple times his empty body was destined to be re-filled with past memories from the time jumps, and then more than one of them eventually managed to actually use the time machine offscreen instead of just the one we were shown at the very end of 0?
I'm too dumb for this
don't worry, I was not that clear with the explanation since I originally rushed out the script.
which if you couldn't tell from the sheer amount of long comments I have had to answer, was a very poor decision.
@@APolygons2 its okay bro lol, either way im happy that people are still talking about Steins Gate, one of my favorite stories of all time
It’s probably because of Okabe’s reading steiner ability. There’s probably more to his ability than what’s explicitly said. It probably allows him to exist after a timeline completely shifts along with him retaining memories
Okabe1 put in motion this Makise's death mystification to trick Okabe2 BUT Okabe2 will be doing something and no one knows what will be the outcome.
I was persuaded that Okabe1 was sure, that he has some unspecified amount of "borrowed time" to do whatever he wants since no one really knows what events (or what perception of the events) is really a core of the "attractor field"). It was, probably wise for Okabe1, to time-travel far to the past or future, not to mess with any story bits around 2000-2030. That was my understanding of the twist watching it the first time.
the problem is that, once okabe 1 triggers the steins;gate timeline, and goes back to the future, the timeline should be okabe 2's timeline.
meaning he either has to leave (like the 0 okabe), or we will have 2 okabes in the same timeline.
the problem is, okabe 2 just doesn't exists in the future for some reason. the writers kind of ignored him and most people did the same.
and that's besides the fact that as many people pointed out, suzuga disappearing doesn't make sense either.
@@APolygons2 the issues are:
1. Anime did not show the date chosen by Suzuha and Okabe1 (stabbed and in a need of hospital) :D Mayuri was trying to bring flowers to the hospital but he was not there. It could not be Okabe2 as he was only traumatised by what he saw.
2. I had this interpretation that Okabe1 will go to whatever timeline (not important) just to cure himself and that he can always go back to check if everything is alright, give lab-member batches and cheer himself, knowing that Okabe2 is fighting with all the problem we saw in S1E1-22, as those have to happen...
3. I could not exclude the possibility that it was Okabe1 giving lab-member badges. Mayuri was always late and could not catch him in this act. Okabe1 interacts only with people who did not interact with Okabe2 this day. Maybe the day was chosen on purpose so they don't meet. Okabe1 also tried to avoid those who might ask questions e.g. due to a lack of understanding of issues... I like Mayuri but she will be qualified here.
4. I already accepted the idea that 2 Okabes can coexist in one period of time, at least for a time needed to check the outcomes of all crucial actions taken, delay something or change in a meaningless manner. E.g. Mayuri's death can be shifted to a different day, but not avoided in S1. I also have this idea that Okabe, after all those time-travels and with all 'Deja Vu' loaded is not in danger to met his second version. He will be like "Hey me! I knew that it was possible!". Suzuha might disappear much quicker, cause "stopping WW3 as she knows it", was probably much easier to resolve than other events that they suspect of being the "core" of the attraction field. Okabe did some precautions to stop WW3 and she has knowledge about it, so she quickly become no longer needed...
5. Ergo, I was probably using imagination to cover the plot holes by myself... I started this when "Steins;Gate 0" shows us a redheaded girl with blue eyes and memory problems... in Japan. That was a plot hole :D
people being erased from spacetime only applies in "linear" time travel (back to the future, marty starting to disappear during the dance) but since steins;gate is a world line time travel, as in multiple parallels there's no reason for okabe to disappear. reading steiner only activates with d-mail and mindleap because he's essentially altering his past to change the future world line he'd end up in, hence why his consciousness doesn't just switch after the stab and saving kurisu. my take on it, anyways.
yes the disappearing thing was an error, I explained it further in the pinned comment. the main problem is from okabe 2 missing in general.
so fate can be defeated
yes indeed
Plot holes are pretty much inevitable in time travel stories unless the time travel is read-only (like in A Christmas Carol). The second you are able to modify the past in a way that affects the future, you have a grandfather paradox because your reason for time travel is erased by having made the modification. The effect precedes the cause, which is logically inconsistent. People usually try to write around this with:
* multiverses (your change splits the future in two)
* predestination (the universe contrives events in such a way that nullifies your change, which doesn't make sense when you think about it because that implies that the universe can read the actor's mind and tell what their end goal was)
* butterfly effect (something you do causes accidental and unanticipated changes which avoids one type of grandfather paradox by making it dangerous to meddle)
But no solution is bulletproof.
That said, I love SG and how it makes use of several time travel tropes and types. A bit of predestination (or possibly butterfly since it's implied that all the dmail meddling is what got them in that rut) here by forcing Mayuri to die, a bit of multiverse there with the whole "world line" thing, Starting small by just sending small packets of information back in time (proxy time travel, which is a term I made up on the spot just now), then progressing to an entire mind (temporal time travel), and then a human body (physical time travel).
absolutely...
despite this steins;gate is still my favorite anime and time travel story.
i actually think the way sg went about saying grand father paradoxes don't exist was a huge reason for why the time travel worked so seemlessly.
if a shows' only plot hole needs 4 rewatches, and still has hundreds of comments arguing it even being real, the show is doing something right.
the only super complex time travel story that i know of that doesn't have a plot hole, is primer.
but i think primer sucks in every area except time travel....
@@APolygons2 Yeah I personally found primer very boring. There are parts (mostly conceptual) that are interesting, but the actual execution is... not my favorite.
I LOVED YOUR TRUE ENDING
thanks :D
To my understanding the events in okabe 1's timeline only happens because okabe 2's actions exist.
Firstly in stein's gate 0 it's been established that traveling to the past of a specific timeline is not possible because the act of traveling to that point branches that timeline off. So the time traveller will not cease to exist either way. From my understanding suzuha doesn't stop existing as while they travel back the final time the beta attractor field timeline that she set to reach was different from the timeline that okabe reached.
The final stein's gate timeline that was reached could only be reached because of the time traveling shenanigans that happened in the show, and they reached the attractor field of kurisu ending up covered in blood. Thus for the events to happen okabe 2 and okabe 1 both needed to exist and since okabe 2's origin is from a different timeline he still exists.
Another proof of this is that we find out in the movie and the end of the show that people retain memories of other timelines in the form of Deja Vu, which indicates that all the events that transpired is shared and exists in the timestream
read my pinned comment.
I mean that does make sense since Okabe 1 doesn't remember events of Steins:Gate 0 (World war 3, professor Lenskin etc.) meaning that Okabe 1 shouldn't be able to replace Okabe 2
ignore zero, it's crap, it's not needed. let's think only about the original series.
there are three Okabes:
1: the one that sees Kurisu dead and hears the scream
2: the one that in episode 23 goes back to episode 1 and accidentally kills Kurisu
3: the one that goes back a second time to fake Kurisu's death.
if there's a plot hole is that there should be three Okabes running around in episode 1, but the second one is "erased" when Okabe 3 goes back to fake Kurisu's death. Okabe 3 takes Okabe 2's place. Some people have answered this to me saying that in the visual novel it's explained, it's something to do with the world lines, so Okabe 3 goes to a different word line from Okabe 2, so there are only two and not three at the same time. I wish the series made it more clear. If we ignore external materials like the visual novel and only watch the series, this could be a huge plot hole.
The anime of 0 has a LOT of problems. but from what I have heard the VN is only a little worse than the original.
plus it's cannon, you can't really ignore it. and even if you do, the 0 okabe still exists in the original sg, you see him send okabe a message. 0 doesn't add this plot hole, it just makes a bit easier to explain/understand.
but I can tell you that what you mentioned isn't a plot hole.
when he goes back the first time, he creates the 0 timeline. because before he had done that, that future was technically not fully set in stone yet, which is why the message was glitched.
but after the 0 timeline got triggered and he went back again, the timeline changes to something new.
the second time he goes back, that's already a change that had not happened to the 0 okabe before, the timeline changes, which is why his previous version isn't there.
to explain it in a short sentence, okabe 1 was okabe 0 until he got the call from his future.
this is never explained in detail because it would just overcomplicate things, but it does check out with the rules the series has set. if you look at previous examples like suzuha going back to get the IBM 5100, you can see that this is how the time travel has always worked in steins;gate.
@@APolygons2 Zero VN is super good but ye worse than the original but it's like saying a 9/10 is worse than a 10/10. It's still good.
I think that what Okabe goes trough is a time loop. Okabe 0 has his path and Okabe 1 has his own. Then the Okabe 2 you mentioned sends the first d-mail like in ep.1 and jumps to an alpha timeline and becomes the same as Okabe 0. Suzuha and Okabe 1 in the ending would have to be seperated, because the Steins;Gate worldline can't have time machines or it would end up with WW3, but Okabe still has to exist in the Steins;Gate worldline. This is the timeloop of happines, as the reward in the end is worth all the pain.
Hear me out, I don't know if there are flaws in this argument, but please point out if you find any:
Okabe 1 would cease to exist when Okabe 2 moves to Alpha. But why he went to the hospital if hes not Okabe 1? You ask.
Because that's a convergence point in every Steins;Gate worldline (There are more than 1) (I don't know if there's a SG Worldline for every attractor field)
Source:
Worldline 1.049326χ
This worldline appears during the Linear Bounded Phenogram story “Hermaphroditus in the Labyrinth”.
Okabe lands on this worldline after going through all the events to save Mayuri after spending 3 extra days in the Alpha Attractor Field and Luka undoing her own D-Mail. The stability of this worldline is unknown.
August 21, 2010: Okabe is brought to the hospital for an unknown unexpected wound
Is it safe to say that the stab wound is a point of convergence in steins;gate timelines?
There is a Steins;Gate worldline for Chi Attractor field where Okabe was misteriously stabbed, maybe the Steins;Gate Worldlines are connected and converge in Okabe's stab wound.
That would make sense, or I am just wrong. Sorry for my English.
It is worth noting that Attractor Field X isn't the same as the Steins Gate. It is also unlikely that there is a Steins Gate for each attractor field.
It is also worth noting that Okabe 1 doesn't cease to exist. Okabe 2 never makes it to Alpha, as there's only ever one active worldline (or rather, there's only ever one active worldline within any given world layer, but that's far beyond the scope of a Steins Gate only discussion). Okabe 1 also mentions that Reading Steiner never activated.
@@SeralyneYT Okabe 2 can still make it to Alpha without breaking the 1 active worldline at a time rule. Just the same way we saw our own Okabe do it. Beta becomes inactive, Alpha becomes active, Okabe 2 redoes everything until deleting the dmail, RS's to Beta (effectively reactivating an identical version from the one he left), leaves in the time machine with Suzuha (no change no shift), our Okabe 1 proceeds to arrive afterward.
In theory if Okabe 1 accidentally influenced Okabe 2 to make different decisions in Alpha (and made him go down the Faris end route) then Okabe 1 would've never made it to the future because his worldline is gone, the active worldline staying forever on Omega with Okabe 2.
The ending you suggested would have been great, however.......
i see the ending quite differently. First i want to point out that mayuri and suzuha cant stay in the past as mayuri has to adopt kagari in the future. what i believe happened is that mayuri and suzuha went back into the future without okabe, mayuri was dropped off at the original time she left and suzuha went back to a few minutes after the point were she left originally, at this point the world line is complete. as soon as this happens reading steiner activates for all 3 okabes as they all merge into the ocabe you see exiting the time machine at the end of the original steins gate. i believe this is the most satisfying ending as okabe 0 isn't lost to time, okabe 1 hasn't disappeared and okabe 2 isnt missing. no plot holes yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
just finished the series and this was a really good way of having the bittersweet timeline. 1 basically prestige himself.
Okabe 0 goes through the same events of the og anime the difference is it’s what if he didn’t get the message
Its more of a "before" than a "what if" but yeah you're right
apparently there are limit to characters you can type when commenting.
Basically the understanding I got after looking at others' solutions is that the Steins Gate Worldline is a NEW worldline where Okabe got transported into after going back to the future. Suzuha and the Time Machine or basically everything disappears as Okabe Reading Steiner activates, transporting him into Steins Gate Worldline.
This was the basis of the idea I had. The original explanation was much lengthy and it replaces the idea of Worldline and Attractor Field Theory. Because people get confuses with it.
How I understood the mechanics of time travel so far, also based on this vid and my headcanon (correct me if I understood incorrectly), I'm gonna dissect versions into multiple without considering the other timelines:
1. There can be only 1 ACTIVE WORLDLINE at a time, influenced by the other world lines, split from the active timeline.
2. We are witnessing different versions of Okabe (anime):
> Beta Okabe (0.0) is the one who lived through majority of the Beta Timeline + Alpha Timeline, the Okabe that exist in the Amadeus plot.
> Beta Okabe (0.1) is the one who exists in the Beta Timeline as the second Okabe who failed to save Kurisu.
> Beta Okabe (1.0) is the Okabe that lived through half of Beta + all of Alpha Timeline + saved Kurisu.
> Alpha Okabe (2.0) is the one in the SERN plot, Mayuri death timeline.
> SteinsGate Okabe (3.0) is the Okabe of the SteinsGate timeline, the Okabe that saw Kurisu in Okabe 1.0's blood, the one who experienced half of Alpha + all of Beta Timeline + SteinsGate Timeline.
> Main Okabe (M) is the Okabe of the viewer's perspective.
3. The first season displays the half of Beta Timeline, Okabe 0.1 attempting in the background and with Okabe 0.0 travelling to the Alpha Timeline via D-Mail (becomes 2.0), where Mayuri dies.
4. Okabe 2.0 undone things and saved Mayuri, thereby going back to the Beta Timeline as the active timeline.
5. Okabe 0.0 attempts to save Kurisu (as 0.1) but failed. He lives on in the Beta timeline after he gave up, as 0.0 after going back, until the war caused by Amadeus. In a few years, he sent a video to the past via Dmail to Okabe 0.1, explaining the correct formula to reach SteinsGate + Mayuri 0.0 and Suzuha 0.0 convincing Mayuri 0.1 to motivate Okabe 0.1, requiring him to fail once so that Okabe 0.0 would still exist.
6. The moment he decided to came back in time for the second time, he becomes Okabe 1.0, thereby saving Kurisu. Suzuha 1.0 ceased to exist, Okabe 1.0 becomes 3.0 (evident by the fact that he came from the hospital, implying that that was the Okabe who saved Kurisu) upon returning to the new active worldline (SteinsGate) at the same time point they almost left. His actions changed the active timeline to SteinsGate, a split from the Beta Timeline, where Suzuha 1.0 and Okabe 1.0 appeared on the ceiling from Beta Timeline as part of the new line and not their 0 counterpart.
7. The Okabe 3.0, who thought Kurisu died, sent a Dmail propelling him to Alpha Timeline (becoming 2.0). When he undid the changes he made, it propels him back to the Beta timeline (as 0.0), thereby closing the loop of causality.
8. One thing to note is that the versions of Okabe DOES NOT retain all memories through all circumstances, just Okabe M's perspective. His Reading Steiner ability overwrites the worldline Okabe his consciousness lands on. Sample is that he can't remember some details on how some events lead to the outcome of his dmail.
9. The notable ones are from 0.0, 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 Okabe, although Okabe 1.0 is the one able to exist as Okabe 3.0 because of his Reading Steiner ability, his ability to retain consciousness in the active timeline/worldline, overwriting each versions of himself whenever a past event is altered.
To some extent, you can remedy it by suggesting that as soon as the problem is fixed, we suddenly start viewing the "possible hypothetical" story as it would continue, if said world line stayed "current". For example in Zero, as soon as Okabe 0 sends that message back to ensure Okabe 1 tries again to save Kurisu, the worldline should shift and nothing after that point would become "realised". However, we see a bit more of the story after that point (he goes on the final mission to rescue his friends). We could suggest, as the audience, we are being allowed to see what *would* happen should that chronology continue to play out, even if the "true canon" of the story would shift away.
To summarise, Okabe 1 ceases to be, assumedly, as soon as Kurisu's death is faked and Okabe 2 witnesses it. However, we are being allowed a glimpse into "Okabe 1's next few moments" in a strange hypothetical narrative. The ending in which Kurisu and Okabe pass one another in the street can manifest itself in Okabe 2's world; he finally shifts back into (what everyone assumes to be) the Beta attractor field after undoing his first D-Mail, only to accidentally pass Kurisu on the street, realising that she never died at all. Unbeknownst to him or anyone else but us, the audience, Okabe 0 and Okabe 1 ensured this outcome on his behalf.
I hope this idea helps lend a different angle to the discussion. Great video, thank you for sharing!
Glad someone else picked up on this because it's been bugging me for years lol.
Also, on a Doylist level, Load Region of Deja Vu makes way more sense when you realize it's just trying to be Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya with Steins Gate characters.
I had never really thought about it; but you're right lmao
I need to rewatch disappearance, that movie was a god damn masterpiece in every way possible.
Btw, If you can take a look and see any of my newer videos seem interesting to you. it kinda hurts than this less than half baked thing I made when I had just started has over 90% off my channel's entire view count lol
I think that when Okabe went to save Kurisu for the 2nd time, he did not change the timeline. He only tweaked the beta world line as the Steins gate worldline is doesn't actually exist its just something Okabe made up as an ultimate solution to everything. In the beta world line the point of convergence wasn't Kurisu dying but it was actually Okabe seeing Kurisu "dying" on the floor. Thats why future Okabe made it so that the Okabe in OG timeline must see Kurisu on the floor even though it was fake blood. In this way the point of convergence stays same and they don't change world lines. And since the world lines don't change there isn't an Okabe 2. Its just the Okabe of the beta world line returning to the beta world line just slightly tweaked so that it does not move to the alpha world line. Hope i explained my thought process properly.
I don't exactly understand how that relates to the okabe 2 thing, since what world line he is from doesn't make him not exist, but other wise, great observation, I see how it happened slightly differently, but I'm probably making it overcomplicated.
oh also, as a youtuber, I am obligated to ask like and subscribe. or else a particularly angry looking gnome will eat my family.
so. please like and subscribe!
"Only plot hole"
I saw Steins; Gate as riddled with hundreds of smaller plot holes. That feeling when you use a literal black hole to compress discrete data into a smaller amount of discrete data...
I can think of any other, at least not in the anime.
and "not fully accurate science" isn't really a plot hole imo
a plot hole is only when the show breaks it's own rules.
@@APolygons2 I guess we just have different definitions of "plot hole," then. I'll admit that I only consider those things plot holes because Steins;Gate is sci-fi, so I expect it to *generally* play by the laws of our world unless they say otherwise (I mean, I could assume that Okabe lives in a world in which cell phones are equipped to beam memories directly into the hippocampus and would do so automatically upon receiving a compressed text, but that seems like a rather extreme assumption to make without confirmation. At the very least, that kind of technology would lead to the most destructive cell phone worm known to humankind - think the loveletter virus but for memories. That being said, I understand that this plays a somewhat larger role in Chaos;Head, so it might make more sense if I had context from there).
The reason I don't think the ending itself is necessarily a plot hole is Reading Steiner. RS is essential the viewer's lens into the series. And because it's our lens, we don't definitively know much about what happens to a world line "after" Okabe leaves. And RS has *never* worked consistently. For instance, at least two Okabes definitely have Reading Steiner. Does every Okabe have RS? If so, why doesn't Okabe from World A who time leaps and causes a world line shift to World B have his memories rewritten by his "present" memories from World A as soon as he "catches up" to his past self? Heck - to me, it's not even clear if RS affects just Okabe's mind or his entire body, since he's (sometimes improbably) usually in the same place after a world line shift as he is before, with the possible but unclear exception of the first shift (I could easily be forgetting something here). If RS affects Okabe's body, let's posit this as what happens in the ending: Okabe 1 fakes Kurisu's death, which Okabe 2 sees and is tricked by. Okabe 1 time travels into the future and, during the time he skips by traveling, Okabe 2 gets Reading Steinered into the start of the series. When Okabe 1 touches down in the "present," the time machine ceases to exist, now affected by the world line change (I think it's safe to assume they make it back to the present before they disappear, since Okabe isn't jelly by the end of it). Okabe *would* cease to exist as well, were it not for Reading Steiner. The world line shift that unmade the time machine was a shift ONTO the Steins;Gate timeline FROM Okabe 1's timeline. Okabe 1's RS then faithfully replaces the body of Okabe 2 with Okabe 1 (I assume the body of Okabe 2 that remained in the Steins;Gate world line is just going along happily unaware that a copy of it was transported into the past by Okabe 2's first D-Mail). This explains why Okabe is implied to have been in the hospital in the next scene with Mayurii, and it ties together what happens to all the Okabes (in contrast, assuming things don't happen in this order begs the question - wouldn't both Okabe 1 and Okabe 2 be Reading Steinered back into the "Makise Kurisu is dead text sent" world line? Okabe 2 legitimately thought she was dead - that was a prerequisite of the Steins;Gate line - so he would presumably have sent the D-Mail and started the journey. Depending on who's memories or body took precedence, it wouldn't necessarily lock the series into a sad time loop where Kurisu wasn't dead but Okabe still restarted the series - but at the very least, them staying on the Steins;Gate timeline assumes his D-Mail either didn't send or didn't go into the past - unless I'm forgetting that something else changed before the fake death of Kurisu in the Steins;Gate timeline that would have prevented the Phone Microwave from working.).
I see Steins;Gate as a story more of perspective than change. All the world lines exist - or at least, any with someone to observe them - someone with Reading Steiner.
Of course, I could easily be wrong in assuming Reading Steiner transpots the entire body - I haven't double-checked all my references. I just don't recall Okabe noticing anything with *himself* that was physically different across timelines (even if it doesn't change his location - i.e., Okabe going from line A to line B replaces the Okabe at line B at his position - it could still be Okabe A's body replacing him there.).
Feel free not to respond to this if you don't want to. In all honesty, like many fictional works, there's a way to pick until something doesn't make sense, and there's a way to reinforce until things make sense again. I honestly just enjoy arguing canon on the internet - and with any canon, there's always something to argue! There's probably no ground truth (writers can't possibly predict every theory fans come up with ahead of time, after all), but it can be a fun thought experiment at the very least.
The time travel using C204 isn't really all that well explained, I feel. Earlier it was established, or at least I understood to be established, the fact that multiple timelines do not exist "simultaneously", you just switch the trajectory of time to a different world line. Okabe is not affected by that switch due to his Reading Steiner, he simply re-lives the time from the point of change, which for him is the point when he receives his memories from his future self (which no longer happen). This can really only work if we accept that humans can somehow have memories or a consciousness that isn't bound to the here and now, but apart from that, I like it, because it avoids a lot of time travel problems - events happen in sequential order, there is no "my future" vs "your future", there are no time loops (what happens is a person suddenly remembers something, but the cause of these memories has not happened and is not guaranteed to happen), causality is strongly maintained, you can not meet your past self.
But with C204, you have real true time travel. You can go back and exist simultaneously with an earlier version of yourself. So this opens the classic problem of, for example, going back, killing yourself, then going forward. In Steins;Gate's time travel model of no parallel universes and no time loops, the answer has to depend on how the machine itself works, so let's try a few scenarios:
1. "Perfect matching". Going forward, the machine requires an existing match to be available for you. So you can only return to the same point in time from which you left, basically guaranteeing an unbroken existence, but requiring that you exist in the new world line. If not, the entire thing disintegrates. This does not quite match what the story seems to be going for.
2. "Split personality". You insert yourself and the machine into the world line from outside of time itself. Given the requirement for things to exist "outside of time" already for the rest of the story to make sense, this isn't much of a stretch. This is what has to happen anyway when you travel back in time. So Okabe 1 goes back. Changes nothing. World line doesn't change. Returns to just after he left in a world where he left, i.e. there is still one Okabe in the world. Then he goes back *again* after watching the video Okabe 0 left him. Returns. There are now two Okabe and adult Suzuha. Wait but that's wrong.
3. "Steiner's privilege". Okabe has the Reading Steiner. Therefore, when he goes forward, his presence changes the attractor field ever so slightly, so he can exist in the point to which he arrives. Perhaps there was a thug on the rooftop who tried robbing him for his money and he refused, so he got stabbed, thus when he comes back the final time, he wakes up stabbed on the roof.
4. "It just works". It just works. In fact, Suzuha didn't disappear. Okabe managed to change the world line to one with an actual stable time loop where the time machine is created, but then erases its own existence via his actions. It both exists and does not exist, Suzuha can go back, but not forward. Okabe returns to the rooftop stabbed but the time machine itself doesn't. Suzuha disappears and is then born. The time machine disintegrates.
I kind of like number 4 the best. It shows the enormity of the task Okabe had in front of him - find a world line where the time machine gets made and then gets unmade, one where the future of WW3 happens and doesn't happen. A true deceit of fate. It doesn't make complete logical sense, but it doesn't have to. It just has to fulfil the will of Steins;Gate.
In theory enacting the grandfather paradox would make you vanish on the spot, since people and objects who are deemed as paradoxes are kicked out of the world (movie and anonymous;code stuff). though I also theorize that this is only limited to attractor fields (suzuha is kicked out for landing in a foreign attractor field, okabe is kicked out for his reading steiner overload due to his alpha and beta memories)
Since you seem to have put some thought into this I'd like for you to read my ending explanation if you sort comments by new
I thought the Okabe that screamed at the beginning of the anime/novel was Okabe 1(as in the okabe that was stabbed) and then okabe sent the dmail starting a time loop, of course that would then leave the question of how Kurisu is dead when okabe first gets back to the Beta line which could exsplained by it being a different line then where he came from. Or am I just forgetting something that invalidates this theory entirely?
Steins;gate can't be a loop, because steins;gate 0 exists.
And also what you mentioned is exactly why i think an okabe 2 would exist.
I have read a lot of theories in these comments, and one or two of them to actually make senee while debunking mine.... but the show is not a loop, of that i am sure of.
Okabe 2 also didn’t have the same start because Mayurii didn’t get her “METAL UPA”
hello. I just finished steins gate. The one where they went to L.A.
It was really amazing. My judgment may be clouded, but I genuinely loved it. I love watching stuff with good endings, and I saw that with the episode 24 of steins gate. I believe that it couldn't have been concluded in another way that would make it seem great. I believed that it tied up all the loose ends, with how Okabe has done everything in order to go back to normal.
But after I watched this video, I dont know what to say anymore. There is more than just 1 anime? This was from a visual novel? I genuinely didn't know.
This anime left an amazing impression on me, and I'm afraid that if I find out more about the other steinsgate thingies, I may fall into a rabbit hole about this.
Which is why I want to ask. Should I know more about steins gate? Or is it better of if I live in ignorance? Not knowing about anything. And if I should know more, where do I start?
I am embarrassed that this 2 year old video of mine blew up this much, cause I didn't even scratch the surface of steins;gate's ending, but that's besides the point lol
I'm just saying that before answering your question, to say If you liked it, please check out some of the newer videos I made, cause I have improved a LOT since I made this so long ago.
and to your question:
Well, ok so, the original visual novel for steins;gate is basically the exact same story but with some extra stuff that were cut in the anime, which includes some alternative endings. But personally, I like the anime more, because I think most of the stuff that were cut, weren't necessary or were somewhat poor. Making the anime better than the VN. Though some of the cut content is really good, so there are people who would disagree with me on that.
As far as the original goes, I think if you're going to check anything about it. just watch the suzuha ending, which was actually really good. The rest I wouldn't bother with unless you REALLY want to get everything about the series.
Steins;gate has two anime follow ups, which are an OVA and a movie. Both of them don't make much sense as far as the continuity and logic of the series goes, but they nail the characters, so if you just want to spend more time with the cast and get some nice moments, I suggest watching them while knowing that they are technically not cannon.
Steins;gate 0 however, is cannon, and once you see it you won't be able to imagine steins;gate as a story without it. It's like a second half that you didn't know you needed. The issue however, is that the anime adaptation for it is not nearly as good as the original steins;gate. If you are willing to read the VN for 0, it's probably the better way to experience it's story, but for what it's worth, the parts of 0 that are directly connected to the original are still EXTREMELY good in the anime. It's a show with low lows. and a lot of flaws mostly thanks to the adaptation, but when it's good it's REALLY good.
There is also a slice of life romance visual novel, which I believe isn't cannon, but a lot of people like it, and it exists, so I thought it was worth mentioning.
That's as far as steins;gate as a series goes.... BUT, there is more...
Now I haven't read these myself, but steins;gate is actually a part of a much bigger series called the science adventure universe, which includes several other Visual novels, to which steins;gate is only a small part of.
Some of which have the characters from steins;gate appear in them at some points. Out of which Chaos:Child is heavily debated to be even better than steins;gate.
Now the anime adaptations for the rest of these kinda suck, except for Robatic;notes which from my understanding has a decent adaptation. I haven't seen it though so I wouldn't know.
Oh and also, the newest visual novel announced in the series is teased to be called "steins; blank"
which implies there maybe a new steins;gate in the making.
Now to answer your original question.... how far should you go down the rabbit hole? Honestly, that entirely depends on you.
But I suggest at the very least checking out 0, because the parts of it that connect to the original story add so much more weight to so many already top tier moments.
It's better to go with the VN, but the anime works too.
oh and one last thing. In the visual novel, Mayuri has feelings for okabe, which does not come across at all in the original anime. Which I don't think hurts it, like at all.
But I thought I should give you that context, cause without it, when 0 DOES dive into her feelings, it feels completely out of nowhere for someone who has only seen the anime.
Hope this helped!
Oh I almost forgot, I'm a "youtuber" so I need to say LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE!!!!
My brother, thank you for taking your time to answer my questions! I appreciate it very much.
I will totally watch 0. As for the non-canon ones, I personally get sad if something I watch or read wasn't actually canon (I can't explain it very well... I just don't understand myself that much haha)
Though a few hours after commenting on your video, I did get recommend a shorts about Christina looking at variations of Okabe with cool clothings. I could be mistaken but if that's part of any OVA, I may want to watch it a bit.
Anyways, thank you so much for taking the time to respond back to me. I was scrolling through your channel earlier and I saw a lot of videos that I want to watch!
This video about steins gate was enough to got me to subscribe to you!
Once again, thanks a bunch. I'll watch your videos. You're great!!!
so basically the grandfather paradox
solution: The time travel back to a point, does not alter the timeline, but instead creates a new timeline in which different things happen
Another issue is that if the okabe in the steins gate timeline were to see kurisu pretend dead, then the cycle would repeat itself. Okabe would send the d mail, and it would lead back to the sern dystopia
But the catch is, kirisu in steins gate route isn’t dead so sending the d mail won’t shift the timeline
I actually thought about this when I first watched it and I feel like the solution to this is the whole "Reading Steiner" shtick, or rather the "ability to remember other worldlines". First of all, that whole explanation of the ability doesn't make sense, for a few reasons:
1)In this show, worldlines aren't parallel worlds, but mathematical approximations of possible causal chains of events that are clustered into Attractor Fields. Which means that none of those worldlines actually happened, and so, even if you do create a change in causality that switches worldlines, everything that was "before" fundamentally doesn't exist. It's not like you get memories from your other self in another world, none of that stuff actually exists.
2)From the very beginning we know that there can be 2 Okabes at the same time, which kinda makes no sense from the mechanical perspective considering RS. RS basically makes Okabe a fixed point on the time axis of reality, he cannot use it to artificially go forward or backward, and if a change in causality does happen, he stays at the same "point" as he should be anyway, with everything around him changing to accommodate the new causality. That makes him a perfect "observer". So what would happen if you had 2 perfect "observers" with different memories at the same moment in time? They should immediately converge their memories into one, because it's been shown that that's how the ability works. He should be a fixed "point" regardless of the context, and having 2 points in 4d space that are forced to collapse onto a single axis (here time), they become the same. So why doesn't that happen?
Well, imo, RS is basically a way for the Universe to avoid partial Grandfather paradox. If you fuck with causality, you always put something that "shouldn't be there", that's what creates a divergence. But in this Universe, there are no parallel timelines, so whatever changed causality still doesn't have a causal origin in that timeline, and therefore, paradox happens. So why not bring over the dynamic element that caused the change over to the new timeline and make them the base reason for it's existence. That's Okabe. But the only way that can work is if you replicate/transfer everything relevant about his existence (his mind, the thing that caused the change originally) and shove it into the new timeline at the same point in time. And, because he's literally the protagonist, everything starts with him (Okabe 0) and ends with him (Okabe 2). This also explains why timelines don't end immediately when he changes causality directly and why multiple versions of him can exist at the same time and follows the logic of the plan Okabe 0 came up with.
Essentially, Okabe is the reason why continuity exists, both in the story and in the Universe of the show. Without him as an active agent, any "change" to the causality would be a paradox. And so all of his 'versions' form a type of meta causal chain, 0->1->2. That also explains why he doesn't have memories from all infinite possible timelines that don't exactly exist. He only has the memories he should theoretically have in order to justify his current position in spacetime within a particular timeline. Aaaand, that also explains why some other characters have some partial memories. All of them were close to the root cause of the divergence, so they, through their influence on him, also by proxy influenced causality, but only in specifically relevant timelines (Faris when she has to delete her dad and Makise in the final timeline), because they are the only reason those particular timelines even exist. Or rather, they become plot relevant. They only get relevant info from the Universe because they are only relevant in that particular worldline.
And that explains the ending too. They are Okabe 2 and Makise, but they get the memories because of those mechanics, while Okabe 1 either dies from blood loss or continues existing separately.
i actually think keeping the reading steiner vage makes it work.
since only one timeline exists at any given time, the reading steiner kinda functions as the "soul" in my mind. something that is one and the same among all the shifts.
it's not scientific by any means, thate why it works perfectly as it is. being vage.
but yes if i remade the video i woulr mention the 2 okabe at the end thing.
the beef of the plot hole is the okabe of steins;gate (okabe 2) being missing.
What hasn’t been explored in the anime is what happens to Okabe after he sends a D mail. From my point of view, in episode 24 okabe 2 thinks Kurisu is dead and sends the dmail, which then loops back to the start of season 1.
If we assume okabe 2 goes back to the start of season 1 after dmail, then okabe 1 is the only one living in the steins gate and that’s it. So if D mails actually teleport the user to their new world line and replace the consciousness of that existing okabe this could make sense.
Also, is there any evidence that world lines disappear? I think it's terrifying that there are universes where okabe dicks around puts on a headset and dies. Especially since i believe there never is empty vessel, some other okabe enters his body before he bites the bullet.
Maybe the real Steins;Gate was the friends we made along the way
it was indeed
and also
as a UA-cam person I am obligated to say like and subscribe, or the algorithm demon will eat my pet Franky. so...
please like and subscribe!!!
@@APolygons2 sure man! keep up the good work
Lots of interesting takes on s;g end here, might as well give my take too
Personally I think the ending breaking the rules was a creative decision instead of an unintentional inconsistency, as it came with a more emotionally impactful ending.
My take on a more consistent ending is this: Okabe1 stabs himself, tricking Okabe2 into thinking Kurisu is dead. Okabe2 runs off and eventually sends the first dmail. The instant this dmail is sent, the worldline changes - Suzuha and Okabe1 dont leave via time machine at all (even if they got into it). Now there are two possibilities:
1. Okabe2 finds himself in the alpha worldline, and continues the s;g story as Okabe0/1 did. (Unclear if 2 ends up as 0 or 1). Meanwhile Okabe1 ends up in 1.048596 - Steins;Gate, at the current time. (My favorite as it fully loops the story, although i explained it poorly considering there is only ever 1 active worldline)
2. Okabe1/2 merge via Reading Steiner and end up as Okabe in 1.048596 - Steins;Gate.
Either option, the worldline changes to 1.048596 - Steins;Gate at the current time (not time machined to when okabe1 went back from). Okabe retains all memories from Okabe1 and Suzuha ceases to exist.
The issue with this is now Okabe has no injury, the story takes a slight turn from whats shown in the anime. This is why I believe the ending was an intentional creative decision rather than an unintentional inconsistency. If you wanted you could also argue Okabe gains an injury in 1.048596 before/after the leap, and gets hospitalized for that, but theres nothing backing that outside my own wishful thinking.
But yeah, thats my take
Hello! It wasn't a creative decision or an inconsistency. The Okabe that fooled, the one that got stabbed, trigger the time machine before the first dmail otherwise they would be stuck together in alpha which didn't happen. After the machine triggers he is sent to the nearest future after the events that were supposed to happen on the last active worldline.
This means that the Okabe that fooled will trigger the machine but it goes to where the Okabe that got fooled would have ended the moment he got back from those 3 weeks. Since there can only be one active worldline, these 3 weeks had to happen and the machine had to travel before the dmail.
Once the travel is done, the Okabe that fooled will RS the Okabe that got fooled after his 3 weeks of suffering.
Do you know what would have been a severe inconsistency? If Okabe wasn't hurt after the worldline change.
On so many levels this makes it even better because Okabe wouldn't look so proud once he found Kurisu. Why would he be proud if he wasted 3 weeks and she was actually alive? This is just one of many arguments. That's why the Okabe that fooled himself is the one that gets the sweat ending.
Hope this helped!
what about the stab wound?
This is how i interpret the okabes
First 0 does his thing, i agree with you on that point
Then okabe 1 goes back in time to make okabe 2 think kurisu is dead. Okabe 2 goes back in time by accident and becomes okabe 1 and convinces a new okabe 2 that kurisu is dead. This then repeats forevers (allowing for a infinite suzuhas to help) then after this each okabe 1 leaps using reading steiner and lands in steins gate out of the loop for good.
I mean I will buy okabe not knowing kurisu is alive and going back in time by accident.
but that logic can't work when you consider suzuha. she is from the future. and if it's the second loop, (or third when counting 0) the WW3 should have been stopped.
maybe okabe 2 would fail to realize kurisu is alive and would be possible for him to go back accidently. but that just can not happen to suzuha unless its the biggest prank in time travel history.
Okabe2 only goes through the 3 weeks, doesn't fool anyone. Okabe1 triggers the time machine before Okabe2, and for this reason since Okabe2 would have sent the dmail otherwise, Okabe1 is back to where Okabe2 would have been if he sent it and got back, effectively RSing Okabe2. That's why Okabe1 is the "final" one.
There is no such thing as an infinite loop where they all fool themselves
what I thought is that that all they needed too do was to make sure okabe 2 sent that d mail, and when he did it, it would swap places with okabe 2 with okabe 1 in that worldline and would either combine okabe 1 and okabe 2, erase okabe 2, or be a infinite loop, each time with okabe reaching steins gate. or it just combined all the okabes and none got erased since its multi timelines, not a multiverse
Just wondering but, from my understanding there are only 2 okabe's. 0 and 1 since the okabe 2 you mentioned ends up still(probably) sending a message to daru about kurisu being stabbed which leads into the story okabe 0 goes through, which eventually ends in chirisu's death since okabe 0 does in fact kill her casuing okabe 2 to become okabe 0. okabe 0 then creates okabe 1 which splits into the steins gate timeline once he returns to okabe 1's timepoint right after he went back to the past for the second time, allowing for okabe 1 to keep his memories.
Maybe this will be the biggest stretch you've ever heard but hear me out. The okabe we see in the end is actually okabe 2. The strongest argument I have for this is that because okabe 1 knew that kurisu is alive in the steins gate worldline, so he would've been non-stop looking for her which he didn't. What we actually see is okabe 2 having returned from the alpha worldline not realising he landed in steins gate. I think okabe 2 is just assuming that kurisu is dead in this worldline which is why he got shocked when randomly bumping into her in the streets. The end quote "This is the choice of steins gate" is okabe 2 realising that he somehow ended up in steins gate.
And then there are the "plotholes" for this theory
- Why was okabe 2 stabbed? Well idk maybe he just happend to get stabbed by some thugs or something
- Okabe talking to himself at the end as if she is still alive. The only reason I could come up with is that he is just coping with himself and beliving that somehow she is alive in the beta worldline.
In the end, I still would've prefered the ending that you came up with. Im just trying to make sense of what we got lol.
Its cause and effect and observer point as a viewer that cause a lot of confusion. We as Okabe - is observer. Okabe replacing different Okabe everytime he switching worldlines, he doesnt have memories from current worldline, but he remember different ones. So in reality SG 0 Okabe wouldnt existed, if first Okabe didnt change worldlines before and didnt try to save Kurisu in the first time.
SG 1, Okabe fails to save Kurisu, SG 0 Okabe lives 15 years, "dies", then after 11 years in coma wakes up with the memories from 2011 and comes back after 3000 leaps in 2011. Now he slightly changed present, saved time machine for couple seconds , neutralize everyone who want it to capture machine and lives again 15 years and now sending message to the past SG 1 Okabe in 2010 about how to save Kurisu without changing facts. Basically in order to SG 1 Okabe succeeded, he should failed at the first time, video message become visible, because all events occur in the future. Message changes Okabe motivation, preventing future from happening and probably video message become unwatchable again, because its changes past and prevents SG 0 Okabe existance.
So why Okabe doesnt replace himself? Well...he currently in the time machine and during time travel he doesnt exists in the present. He returned without time machine, probably felt and bleeded on a floor.
Should been time machine dissapear instantly during time travel, just by changing fact that time machine wouldnt exists in the future? Should time machine work at all during worldline changes? Who knows.
I thought you were going to talk about the paradox of Mayuri and Suzuha being blown up in Steins;Gate 0 making it impossible for Mayuri to ever meet Kagari, however actually I think(?) this was kinda avoided in 0's VN lmao
however, I do believe in the way stuff works in Steins;Gate, once a timeline is changed Okabe's consciousness or whatever is moved to an active timeline, it's like they say, it's all like a strain of string to make a rope, a timeline is never not there, because it's always there in the background, I just assumed Suzuha returned with Okabe (or dies idk lol) and the active timeline switches along with Okabe's consciousness
but if it switches, why does he have a stab wound?
@@APolygons2 it could always been something that's meant to happen, it sounds illogical considering okabe 2 doesn't get stabbed after seeing kurisu thinking she's dead, but it has happened where okabe in Steins;Gate 0 gets shot by Suzuha and when time leaping back ends up getting wounded again similarly, but in a different way
Purely hypothetical though, but I get where you're coming from, it definitely is weird that okabe wakes up at the hospital
My humble explanation is the next one:
Okabe has the Reading Steiner, not the audience, if he has the RS theres no sense on thinking he cease to exist, or he don´t know anything about the others timelines. So, indeed, When Okabe 0 sent the video, his RS were activated and he reach the S;G but thats from his POV, not ours, the same applies to your "Okabe 1". I think all those Okabes were the same and activate the RS on diferents spots who werent been shown to the audience
PS: Sorry if you see an gramatical mistake, but im not a native english so i try my best
I got to episode 4 trying my hardest but my eyes were burning by then.
the start is a bit slow for some people's taste, specially if you aren't a big fan of slice of life, but it will grab you.
you would be glad you pushed through when you reach the high points of the series.