Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential of Trichocereus and Lophophora
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2022
- Long video where I share possible ways of increase mescaline content by facilitating its biosynthesis.
This is a first draft that I didn’t rewatch yet. Didn’t add timestamps yet but will in the future
I’ll add this to a few forums later to help discussion either in favor or just discrediting these ideas completely
thanks for sharing. looking forward to updates👍
Hopefully someone in the community can test more exact but I’ll try doing my own
Just out of experience, the slower they grow the more potent they get. Proper natural light, can also do wonders. With a good substrate, a light compost tea every now and then with rare watering, works great! Partial dehydration also helps.
I agree. I think overly fertilized cacti grow quick but are diluted alkaloid content. Maybe in the future I’ll test fertilized vs non-fertilized cactus clone. But will be a while before I am able to set that up
So if slower means more potent it sounds like grafting would be bad bcuz it increases growth speed
@@dustinpribble1546 Exactly! More time available means denser alkaloids. "Patience brings all the best to those who posses it"
Agreed it’s similar to wood strength IMO. Trees are over fertilized and watered too often now so the wood grain is less compact since each year the stem rings are much thicker than they were with “wild” trees. Even the same thickness trees slow grown trees have much stronger strength due to tighter rings. I think the same for cacti. Like with peyote in nature only growing a cm a year vs in cultivation people get 2-3 a year
@@ModernGrower To the point. Few of my lophophoras are grown on the same calcareous substrate with essential watering alone (trying to calculate and mimick humidity intake in natural environment) and with partial sunlight. Growing from seed, since 2007 and has now just passed 5 inches in diameter (only 12,7 cm in all this time) for comparison. The lovely outcome worths every waiting day though!
Big fan of this video btw.
Thanks.
Unintentional ASMR 😊
Good content 😉
thanks. *passes nails on mic*
L-Tyrosine is available on amazon and its precursor L-Phenylalanine too
Im not in the states… I can find many things here but taxes make everything atleast 2x as expensive plus any shipping and such.
@@ModernGrower its just supplements probably the local pharmacist/ drug store will have it
@@ModernGrower phenylalanine is readily available as a supplement usually sold as pea
@@ModernGrowerI'm not sure where you are but here in the States you can find it really easily with most supplements and there are stores designed for health nuts and people who love working out called GNC global nutrition center or something and they sell everything you could imagine I have a 1 lb bag of pure phenylalanine that was 20$
Idk if the plant could easily take up this molecule, but instead of feeding it something lower down the conversion chain like tyrosine, you could try feeding it l-dopa directly. That's what, 2 steps up the chain?
You can get relatively high purity l-dopa in the form of mucuna pruriens extract.
Just a thought...
Now if you really wanted to get experimental, you could try feeding them something like hordenine. (Also available as a supplement in pure form.)
Some of these cacti have been found to produt hordenine as well. Pharmacologically it's a mild stimulant and a mild MAOI.
... and maybe it's not directly involved the the mesc pathway, but i could envision a scenario where something like that could work..
For example, let's say the plant is actually producing hordenine on purpose, to serve SOME (?) type of function... but the creation of hordenine would require it to divert building blocks that otherwise could be used in the mesc cycle.
In such a case, the addition of hordenine would indirectly boost the abily to synth mesc, by limiting the diversion of building blocks, enzymes, etc...
Of course that's highly speculative, but I'm not sure they have any more idea why these things make hordenine, than they do mescaline... or if any good theories have been put forward.
I'm not quite good enough with chemistry to intelligently speculate on the matter... but i have some experience with bio-hacking myself via inducing or inhibiting enzymes, and/or supplying various bio-synthetic "building blocks," so the thought occurred to me. lol
That is a good idea. I'm unsure of the uptake of these supplements in a easy way. Years back some tried applying a foliar spray using DMSO with the suppliments. Results were mixed if memory serves me right. Hordenine would be the same reason as mescaline in the sense that it is to protect the plant from further damage from stressors. The cacti that produce hordenine would potentially produce mescaline however likely lack or are inactive enzymes to further convert the molecule.
There are a multitude of possible things to test like your idea however I have limited funds and even more limited ways of accurately testing. As soon as I work out an extraction method for myself (if my idea fails might just go d-limo route) I'll slowly start chipping away at my ideas of stressors and also the brix value in seedlings as a means of selection
@@ModernGrower I found that plant powerd on Amazon now what?
I live in Florida so.... Dude i have 6 cacti from seeds and a cutting that a friend gave me. .... The last idk 3 or 4 years have been insane.
I just think that you should expect between 0.8-1.3% in fresh samples. And if you dry the cactus you expel the water weight and thus increase the mescaline density to about 3% maybe closer to 4%
These things love Florida even though they are native to high altitude.
I havent actually bought a big cutting to turn in to soup yet..... Im trying to be patient and earn my first experience.....
Hoping to add peyote to my collection..... Eventually.... Hoping to add a few more cuts to my collection
Are you a part of the trichocerus community on Facebook?
Just..... Shut up about mescaline content on that community.... Nobody cares..... Because everybody knows what else it is..... On top of being a beautiful plant
Yea I’m part of the Facebook group I post my Timelapse there (when Trichocereus)
3-4% would be the top cacti which is quite rare unless that is citrate yeild. Most cacti fall around 1% range with few going higher.
When I was in florida I planted a few in the ground and they take off. They can handle the rains without issues as long as they get full sun.
Do Methylation, and hydroxylation have major inhabiting factors outside of the specimens control? Our mood as animals greatly effects our bioregulation of chemicals. If not, maybe Cacti require single culture, or polyculture planting arrangements. I've just started looking into mycorizzal relationships and their benefits in Cact.
My understanding of this is at a hobbyist level and I don’t have enough knowledge on the topic to give a correct answer but I would assume that it does have inhibiting factors since different conditions like drought inhibit and activate different enzymes. But again I just read research papers as a pastime and I don’t have a scientific background just hobby level.
A benefit that I believe falls under as mycorizzal activity? once a cactus dies for whatever reason from what I remember vaguely it releases something that benefits surrounding cacti. I think it was a paper on Pachycereus sp. I now leave rotted cacti in the pot rather than removing it but I don’t remember the specifics.
There are multitude of directions someone can follow and spend years researching. As hobbyist it’s a great pass time
Wow let us know how it goes? I sat and listened to your whole video, found very interesting and learned a lot. I have 5 San Pedro’s and 2 more on the way. I had ordered a San Pedro fertilizer and just got it in. Can’t try it now cause it says not to fertilize during its dormant season. I’ll have to put the pepper , and apples with them. The fertilizer I bought for my Pedro’s is….
Brand: GREEN24
Echinopsis pachanoi Liquid Fertilizer NPK for San Pedro Cactus, Achuma, Huachuma, Wachuma, Aguacolla, Hahuacollay, Giganton (Made in Germany)
Echinopsis pachanoi Liquid Fertilizer NPK for San Pedro
Do you cut the apples into wedges? Or just put them in whole??
You can do the apples while or cut. It is just to be put after cut when “curing” the cut.
I did an experiment but since it was my first extraction I had some errors so ignoring the results. The ethylene had a precipitate while the control had almost none. I’ll repeat the experiment in the future.
I do plan on testing the lack pepper next. Remember most of this is in theory and still needs to be tested. :)
Thanks for watching.
respect
Are we sure that the biosynthesis is the same through out the different species of active cacti?
No. I'm just going by what was in the published paper. There may be slight variations on the pathway depending on the cactus and maybe more than 1 for each.
Drought is the main stress that almost every plant increases alkaloids, flavonoids, phenolics, antioxidant and other things. There was a plant or two that did show reduced alkaloids though.
In the part 2 video I just follow up on my additional research on this topic and found that alkaloids in a way are growth regulators. As plants increase in ROS and oxidates from the stress of drought, light, salt or any other stress the plant needs to reduce that or it will die. The comes the increase enzymes to reduce this by using it to create alkaloids and other secondary metabolites like flavonoids and antioxidants. This is true of all plants not cacti in specific.
If you have an ideas or thoughts on this topic please share I enjoy spending my spare time researching different things. I could be wrong since these are all theoretical and need to be tested in these cacti however various plants all show similar responses.
Was the Alkaloid content determined by a percentage in dry residue after extraction? I'm thinking that a plant in dark stress might use up it's carbohydrate stores, resulting in more concentrated alkaloids in the residue. But perhaps no overall increase?
First extractions were failures but using up the sugar reserves likely increases alkaloid content. I’m gonna wait until they are older since weighing the final content was not accurate with my scale
So what has the best potential for highest concentration if grown to perfection ? Trich wise
Documented papers report 5% mescaline content however that amount changed due to growing conditions… I see hard grown cacti under stressful conditions being those with the highest mescaline content since I believe it is a growth regulator during stressful conditions.
Like mentioned in the video a highly fertilized and optimal grown cactus will have lower content but the higher biomass overcomes the difference.
Have you ever been able to have any lab testing done on any of your experiments yet ?
No. Im also not chemistry inclined so I’ll be trying to find a way to get measurable data to compare.
This is a good vid. Interesting chemistry. L-dopa is availble from china though man... Hey, mesc is available. Why not save alot of time and money and import like guys in the US do with every other recreational drug! 😂 Just grow the cacti for their beauty, they are very nice specimens as cacti go.
Import taxes are near 100% including the shipping cost so over 100% at times. I also don’t use recreational. Like with daime I grow for personal religious use. Any extractions i perform are for scientific experiments.
Due to limited space increasing alkaloid content is the most sustainable method over purchasing or wild harvesting. Also a better understanding of the plants helps with cultivation and harvesting practices.
Very interesting thumbnail.
Thanks. I tried to make it as eye catching as possible
Nice seedling 🌵🌵
i have read there are 2 other forms of mescaline that are more potent than the normal form of mescaline - it might be possible to engineer the plant or situation to produce these forms of mescaline instead of the regular form or a process where by consumption converted it to the more potent forms
Do you know the names?
Im guessing its derivatives of mescaline
@@ModernGrower can't remember for sure - look up pharmacology for mescaline and it's discoverer - first to isolate it I believe - he went on to synthesize 2 more potent forms
@frankstribling3135 I’ll look for it in my free time. Thanks
“forms of mescaline” as in “salts”? Like mescaline hcl, mescaline sulfate, mescaline acetate etc? Or different substances like analogues of mescaline (proscaline, escaline etc)?
Curing with banana's? I'd like a explanation of how to do that if possible too
You get a bundle of bananas OR apples(apples being better in theory) and put them in a paper bag or small box with the trichocereus inside and leave it for a couple of days/weeks. As the banana or apple ripens it will release ETHYLENE. That ethylene is what ripens the fruits and is also used in the biosynthesis of mescaline in cacti. The increased exposure of ethylene from the fruits will increase mescaline conversion from the other alkaloids.
m.ua-cam.com/video/NtO6vexaPKw/v-deo.html
Same principle as this but you add trichocereus rather than tomato’s
Decarbing weed is decarboxilation not decarbonization.... I don't think that's the same thing
Thanks I’ll research it more you are likely right. The main think I took away from researching this idea is ethylene supplementing which I’ll test later this year
You talk so slowly
Yea in should get around to redoing this video. I kept reading a sheet I had with the points I wanted to talk about.
Do you think the speech in the newer videos are better? I got more use to speaking for my videos.
Have you tried playing the video at 1.5 or 2x speed?
Yea
that seedling 3rd row in from the left, in the middle of the tray.... its a 4 ribbed seedling???
never seen that before
Yes it is 4 ribbed bridgesii seedling… in another video … designer cactus series on an attempt to induce crested growth. That is a faux or induced 4rib. Stability may or may not persist as time goes on but it still is 4 ribbed
@ModernGrower bro that's super rare! The 4 wind cactus ! Wow . I'll buy that off you rn 😂
El_chapomillz
He delivers discreetly ¿¿¿
I don’t recommend anyone to buy anything. Grow your own. Safer and a cheap hobby