Long story short: if you can use climb, you might see 3-4 times in your career where conventional is better Zig-zag like in the video is something you might see on a day-to-day basis
That is not true at all unless you are expecting some .2” doc on a hobby machine lol. I have a column mill drill that does fine climb milling but I also ride the table lock when climb cutting.
That’s not true, I have a Chinese CNC and conventional machining makes way more vibration and almost guarantees you’ll end up with chips sticking to the end mill and crashing the machine
@@Industry-insider your can’t climb milling with old milling machines with lead screws or modern CNC routers with lead screws. You will get chatter because the cutter will pull into the material. Only with ball screws climb milling is the way to go. You can use climb milling for finishing passes on lead screw machines too.
I seriously have no idea why the algorithm put this video in front of me. Then I heard the sage words, "when your tool is rubbing, your tool isn't going to last as long." 😂
They both have their place, even on modern CNC's. I still use conventional to this day. I've found that indexable end mills last a lot longer conventional milling in forgings with a lot of nasty scaling and with long solid carbide end mills on extremely light finish cuts on parts that require a tight tolerance on both size and straightness/parallelism in tougher material like hardend steel/tool steels.
My main work is with 500-600 brinell steel and I almost always run conventional unless climb for some weird reason leads better into a following arc or whatever, no clue why conventional usually gives me 5x insert tooling life but that's just what I've seen in my last 5 years of daily 250+ pound removal of hardened wear liner steel! But I very well could just be too stubborn to find a feed rate that works better for climb! 😂
Climb is good but if there is backlash in the system the cut might jump or "climb" past your target. Conventional cutting has thoes drawbacks but you don't have to worry about backlash. Both are used it's all about what you have to do
All setups should be rigid. I only use conventional milling on manual machines. Too much slippage with acme threads. It's worth mentioning that helical end mills are specifically designed for climb milling.
The only thing I have to add is in manual milling without power feed. During these conditions climb milling isn't recommended as the cutter can pull the table into the cutter too fast, causing your cutter to grab and break.
If you are generating enough heat to harden your material I would suggest slowing the feed and maybe use coolant. I rarely used climb cutting when I was a machinist, but that was in the 70’s and early 80’s using junk from ww2.
Climb milling is not good if your machine is not rigid and has conventional screws with clearance. Ball screws are much better, no clearance. Exact movement.
I cut mostly pvc foam at my work (for custom inserts) and climb totally messes it up. Only conventional for us. I wonder why it's so different with the foam. The difference is huge. Climb just rips it and conventional pass smoothes it
W conventional you are clipping off a stationary part, like scooping ice cream. Climb is pushing it up to make the cut. Since your foam has little density the material tears more than cuts because of such low density body it's pushing against to cause shearing.
If you’re climb cutting that part needs to be secure af. Can’t tell you how many parts I’ve had jump or spin on me and chip the mill because it broke the tie down
they are doing high speed milling where most of the heat is transfered to the chips, so coolant isn't needed, but it probably would be beneficial, but wouldn't look as good for filming purposes.
Can you explain how conventional cutting is entering shallow? Isn't the depth of cut a fixed amount every time the machine makes a move in toward the work piece
Rather than type out a super, super long response, I would like to suggest visiting Sandvik Coromants youtube page, and search for the video "Thick to Think Milling Machining". Though this video is about a face mill pass, it still represents what the actual cutting path of a single tooth of a cutter looks like and how it enters and exits from the material. Essentially as a single tooth feeds into the material, it can either be taking more or less material based on the work the previous tooth has removed, relative to the direction you are feeding. With Climbing, less material is being removed as the single tooth moves into the stock (gets thinner) compared the amount of material being removed at first impact of the tooth (thickest tooth engagment). And it's just the opposite for Conventional, where the single tooth has to take more material away as it moves through the cut. Both have their place though, some spindles respond better to having the thinner cut and then powering into the thicker portion of the cut, where others have the torque to handle the spike in load and then ease through the cut as it gets thinner. Just depends on the spindle and whole setup.
As for why people suggest a conventional cut produces a poorer finish, it is because that chip gets thicker as it moves through the cut, thus increasing tool load, which can cause the tool to "pull" into your part as it is cutting. A climb cut will "bounce" away from the part as it moves through the cut, since the chip is getting thinner, and the tool load is reducing. Of course with harder materials this logic could be thrown out the door regarding finishing, since the tool might not actually engage enough to cut the material, and the tool will just rub. So really it just all depends on a lot of different scenarios.
@@lynnrunningdeer7364 You are the silly one here. Do you comprehend that machining without coolant is for filming purposes? "No coolant?" is the most lame comment you can possibly give under the machining video.
@@GrandePunto8V no, I had no clue. Thanx for the information Einstein😑. He wouldn't have to talk about the damage one process does and the other does not if he would turn th coolant on. Why am I the only one who can see it with the coolant running🤨. Never mind don't answer that Sherlock Holmes.
I guess I should state that climb milling is for very rigid setups and will not work well on stuff obtainable by hobbyists.
And conventional is sometimes better on thin parts as well.
Long story short: if you can use climb, you might see 3-4 times in your career where conventional is better
Zig-zag like in the video is something you might see on a day-to-day basis
That is not true at all unless you are expecting some .2” doc on a hobby machine lol. I have a column mill drill that does fine climb milling but I also ride the table lock when climb cutting.
That’s not true, I have a Chinese CNC and conventional machining makes way more vibration and almost guarantees you’ll end up with chips sticking to the end mill and crashing the machine
@@Industry-insider your can’t climb milling with old milling machines with lead screws or modern CNC routers with lead screws. You will get chatter because the cutter will pull into the material. Only with ball screws climb milling is the way to go.
You can use climb milling for finishing passes on lead screw machines too.
My boss says fuck the work piece save time.
And that's the difference xD, that's why we see so much junk..
Bosses like that create their own competition.
I seriously have no idea why the algorithm put this video in front of me.
Then I heard the sage words, "when your tool is rubbing, your tool isn't going to last as long." 😂
They both have their place, even on modern CNC's. I still use conventional to this day. I've found that indexable end mills last a lot longer conventional milling in forgings with a lot of nasty scaling and with long solid carbide end mills on extremely light finish cuts on parts that require a tight tolerance on both size and straightness/parallelism in tougher material like hardend steel/tool steels.
My main work is with 500-600 brinell steel and I almost always run conventional unless climb for some weird reason leads better into a following arc or whatever, no clue why conventional usually gives me 5x insert tooling life but that's just what I've seen in my last 5 years of daily 250+ pound removal of hardened wear liner steel! But I very well could just be too stubborn to find a feed rate that works better for climb! 😂
In reality, it's whatever works.
Climb is good but if there is backlash in the system the cut might jump or "climb" past your target. Conventional cutting has thoes drawbacks but you don't have to worry about backlash. Both are used it's all about what you have to do
Every machine, even new ones, can experience backlash.. parts, tools, fixtures, all of it flexes.
My tool definitely doesn't last as long when it's getting a lot of rubbing. It's ok though, because I finish deep.
Mini Rocky Balboa would like to borrow your new stairs
odd no mention of the force vector being aligned with the cut in conventional, vs perpendicular in climb (ok for finishing but not roughing)
I always use climb milling
Depends what you’re cutting. The reason they both have names, is that they’re both legit, and are just appropriate for different jobs.
climb for cnc, conventional for manual because of backlash. I found that I tend to get better finish with conventional milling with manual mills.
Good information thank you .❤
All setups should be rigid. I only use conventional milling on manual machines. Too much slippage with acme threads. It's worth mentioning that helical end mills are specifically designed for climb milling.
The only thing I have to add is in manual milling without power feed. During these conditions climb milling isn't recommended as the cutter can pull the table into the cutter too fast, causing your cutter to grab and break.
If you are generating enough heat to harden your material I would suggest slowing the feed and maybe use coolant.
I rarely used climb cutting when I was a machinist, but that was in the 70’s and early 80’s using junk from ww2.
Climb cutting can more offten snap the bits off.. use with more caution.
Yet apparently no one seems to be using coolant, or understanding why it’s important.
I just solved ,double spindle one off set made to cut in reverse other regular 😂
The heat generation has absolutely nothing to do with work hardening.
I’ve never heard “conventional” to describe the direction of a cut. I’ve always heard “climb” vs “push” cuts.
The conventional cutting is used when the old mill has game in their axis so climb milling is not an option.
agreed, conventional milling is way better on the manual mills at my school because they have more play than my joints.
Isn't the video alernating both ways? What is it supposed to show?
Climb
Why not use coolant to reduce heat generation during milling?
Climb milling is not good if your machine is not rigid and has conventional screws with clearance. Ball screws are much better, no clearance. Exact movement.
I cut mostly pvc foam at my work (for custom inserts) and climb totally messes it up. Only conventional for us. I wonder why it's so different with the foam. The difference is huge. Climb just rips it and conventional pass smoothes it
W conventional you are clipping off a stationary part, like scooping ice cream. Climb is pushing it up to make the cut. Since your foam has little density the material tears more than cuts because of such low density body it's pushing against to cause shearing.
If you’re climb cutting that part needs to be secure af. Can’t tell you how many parts I’ve had jump or spin on me and chip the mill because it broke the tie down
but wouldn't conventional milling exert more force on the part being cut? at least in the direction of feed?
Freaking genius
Question?
Shouldn't the coolant be turned ON?
they are doing high speed milling where most of the heat is transfered to the chips, so coolant isn't needed, but it probably would be beneficial, but wouldn't look as good for filming purposes.
Can you explain how conventional cutting is entering shallow? Isn't the depth of cut a fixed amount every time the machine makes a move in toward the work piece
Shallow as in the chip starts small and increases in size as it cuts
Rather than type out a super, super long response, I would like to suggest visiting Sandvik Coromants youtube page, and search for the video "Thick to Think Milling Machining". Though this video is about a face mill pass, it still represents what the actual cutting path of a single tooth of a cutter looks like and how it enters and exits from the material.
Essentially as a single tooth feeds into the material, it can either be taking more or less material based on the work the previous tooth has removed, relative to the direction you are feeding.
With Climbing, less material is being removed as the single tooth moves into the stock (gets thinner) compared the amount of material being removed at first impact of the tooth (thickest tooth engagment). And it's just the opposite for Conventional, where the single tooth has to take more material away as it moves through the cut.
Both have their place though, some spindles respond better to having the thinner cut and then powering into the thicker portion of the cut, where others have the torque to handle the spike in load and then ease through the cut as it gets thinner. Just depends on the spindle and whole setup.
As for why people suggest a conventional cut produces a poorer finish, it is because that chip gets thicker as it moves through the cut, thus increasing tool load, which can cause the tool to "pull" into your part as it is cutting. A climb cut will "bounce" away from the part as it moves through the cut, since the chip is getting thinner, and the tool load is reducing.
Of course with harder materials this logic could be thrown out the door regarding finishing, since the tool might not actually engage enough to cut the material, and the tool will just rub. So really it just all depends on a lot of different scenarios.
All to do with lead screw of the machine
Lead screw is different from ball screw
This is 2024 they’re till discussions about this!?
Conventional 💯😉
👍😏🤔
I thought it was cline not climb
Huh. All these years I thought it was called “cline milling” not climb milling. It’s much less cool to me now.😢
Clapped out Bridgeport + climb cutting = broken tool!!!
Looks wasteful
Utter nonsense
Where's the coolant🤔? Nothing like asking a rhetorical question and getting moronic answers😑.
In the coolant tank. 🤦♂️
@@meatwad3000 🙄
@@meatwad3000 you're a bright one aren't you😑?
@@lynnrunningdeer7364 You are the silly one here. Do you comprehend that machining without coolant is for filming purposes?
"No coolant?" is the most lame comment you can possibly give under the machining video.
@@GrandePunto8V no, I had no clue. Thanx for the information Einstein😑. He wouldn't have to talk about the damage one process does and the other does not if he would turn th coolant on. Why am I the only one who can see it with the coolant running🤨. Never mind don't answer that Sherlock Holmes.
did not understood, better do a demonstration video.
Its about demonstrating it and the advantages, not explaining it. If you want an explanation youre at the wrong video
Attempt climb milling at your own risk.
Yet apparently no one seems to be using coolant, or understanding why it’s important.