🍀ＣＬＩＣＫ ＨＥＲＥ🍀 🔴 Subscribe: goo.gl/1xHJzR 🔶 Patreon: www.patreon.com/GhastPatreon. *TL;DW . I like both of these characters but I think this supports doesn't serve either one very well. Let me know what you think down below. If you enjoyed this video, leave a like (To balance out the wave of dislikes). If you're new to the channel, please subscribe for more FE analysis.*
I'd love to see him show some emotional gullibility. If/when they remake FE7 I'd love for him to have a support with Serra. Both supposedly abandoned by big figureheads, and they cope with it in the exact opposite way. Serra seeks to garner attention, while Rath doesn't want it. I think it'd be hilarious to see their C support have Serra rant and rant about herself while Rath just kind of stares at her. At the end it would go something like: "....You're a good listener. Do you do this often?" "No. I just didn't feel the need to say anything. You seemed content enough to continue." "Oh, uh, thank you?" *C support achieved*
This pairing reminds me of that South Park episode where Cartman forces Token into a relationship with a black transfer student... just because they're both black 😂
Well tbh thats really realistic sometime in minority its a really big problem if you marry someone from different tribe....im not saying in majority that issue doesnt show but its not as common and i have seen co worker got into fight with their family just bcuz even difference on just belief or political party its not bad support but its just lazy and some see that as bad bcuz people cant have minority issues but i can see why people see it as bad
I have a friend who is a good listener, and let me tell you, he never just stays absolutely silent. Staying silent feels like you're being given a cold shoulder and is a mark of a bad listener
Ok, reading this comment and watching the video made me realize that I'm horrible at listening. Whenever I don't know what to say in a situation, I usually just say "I see" (which is probably worse) or just keep quiet. Thanks to you and Faerghast for letting me know what I'm doing wrong.
Honestly that's the stupidest thing thing I've ever heard... When someone can't say or rather don't know what to say you can't mark someone as a bad listener. It actually makes YOU sound like a terrible person who judges people with baseless assumptions. I would personnaly never think someone is giving the cold shoulder just because they're just listening and I would even be grateful. I'm too old to act like a brat.
@@Banditlord52 So, I'm a year late, but, no, don't change anything. If you don't have any meaningful things you think could help don't say anything. It does NOT make you a bad listener by any means !
Well, the best Rathsupport is with Normal Archer Number 3 anyway. (But really, it's the only one when he break his facade, if only for a moment. Will is so underappreciated, honnestly...)
Wil is imo the best unpromoted bow user in this game. Either that or I've used him since the dawn of time. Yeah, I really like this guy as a character too. It's like he just doesn't care and starts saying random shit, I love it.
I feel like Raths story could have really been fleshed out if he had a boss quote with Uhai. Where Uhai mentions the prophecy in someway when seeing Rath in battle.
Welp maybe he nvr had interaction evr since 3 so that affect the development of his brain that involved with social to be less developed btw interesting fact there was at least one recorded incident of a kid raised by wolf and she i think died by like 18 or something BUT even after several years in civilization she only knew few words (btw go search the source yourself) i believe its in the 80s? My point was its not impossible rath is deficient in communication but strong on survival but more than likely THE WRITER WERE LAZY bcuz for some reason character development means opening up and soften up but they could at least talk more about rath life so im more convinced its lazy writing
@@michaelmagnimedia3331 In the writers' defense, they basically threw out hints that they think Lyn/Hector is canon, and that everything else in regards to their romantic pairs is tertiary. So...
Girl: I had a horrible day, I think I did a bad job in my presentation today Rath: ........ Girl:I fear to lose my family Rath:...... Girl: Are you there? Rath: ...yes, I fear that too. Girl:............ ok we are done.
Thank you. Lyn is my favorite character but I hate this support. The fact that a lot of people view this as their "canon" pairing because of Sue never sat well with me.
ErilTheBarrel that reasoning doesn’t even make to me it’s totally possible Rath got with another sacaen woman after the war why does lyn have to be the only person rath can be with
I already replied this, but I think a comment could elaborate more on my idea. I think it's pretty clear that Lyn x Rath is controversial support/pairing, and it's clear to see why. Generally speaking Lyn and Rath have gone through relatively similar situations and can both relate to each other due to them both being Sacae. However, in the actual support nothing actually occurs. There is an effect and no cause. Even beyond that, neither of them really grow. Making the "effect" feel like a facade. I think this could easily be remedied by having Rath show disdain at first, then become more lukewarm and sociable towards the end. You can already see him do this in WIl's support. Rath in general seems rushed as a character, and this pairing shows it. They had to have him act the "bad ass loner" in Lyn's support as it was probably written before his others, and that's why it was so rushed. If he wasn't so rushed, I think this pairing would have EASILY been top tier. He could have also had so many supports with other character to flex his "bad ass loner" archetype. I mean, c'mon. A support conversation between him and Karel could have been a major eye opener into both of their characters. Perhaps he could have someone like Marcus questioning where his skill with a bow came from. Maybe Lucius could have gotten concerned about his troubles, and attempted to aid him despite Rath's disdain. Another interesting idea is that perhaps he reminds Legault of one of his former comrades, and they have a paired ending where he helps Legault support the refugees. So much potential... and it was all wasted.
Leonardo Owens I’d really like to, but money is really tight for me and I don’t have any recording equipment or a good computer. Definitely will make 3h content tho
This is why my headcanon is that Sue gets a similar situation to Chrom if Chrom doesn't have at least a C support with a woman by chapter 10. Basically Lucina's mother being random maiden 649, can say the same for Sue's Mom.
@@OrangeKyle91 I mean I do like Rath on his own as the whole cool silent archetype, but in regards to Lyn, he literally offers nothing. It's like talking to a wall.
I really don't get the "Lyn x Rath is canon because Sue has green hair" argument. Rath has green hair. Rath's father has green hair. She gets it from HIS side of the family.
@@BigKlingy And even just looking at Sue's hair, it's a very dark green. Not the shade you would see on Lyn. Also, one of Sue's official artworks, last I checked, even gave her black hair, which Lyn doesn't even have.
You know... that comment about "starting the romance at the A Support" also sums up why I don't like Hector x Florina. Yeah, I said it. I have a lot of similar issues with that support chain to this one, the C and B supports have Florina barely doing anything (and their C is only barely more dialogue than Saizo x Beruka's localized C in Fates) and there isn't even any real romance in their A either, it's just "you talked to me once, I accept your gratitude", bam - married in the epilogue. The romance in Hector and Lyn's A may be subtle, but at least they get further conversations during the main story. Also, I get that some people like "opposites attract", but to me Hector and Florina are such radical opposites that I don't see them working as a couple at all.
Also often times you'll see Lyn and Hector ""fighting"" causing Chapter 19x to happen for example, while Eliwood (and Ninian when she's there) are behind kinda observing x)
Also when you think about it, having Eliwood x Ninian and Hector x Lyn, that would mean that the bloodline for Roy and Lilina's child would be insane xD Lycia, Dragonkin, Ostia, Caelin and Sacae xD
Most ppl who like pairing Hector x Florina usually do it because Florina doesn't pair with any other male character. Lyn and Farina have other options for romance as well, on top of it is just hilarious, considering Florina fears men and gets paired up with a brute like Hector
I tend to be a bit quiet and reserved at times so I get the "good listener" argument. But as somebody who gets anxious and at times needs more time process things, I know sometimes I can come off as cold unintentionally which is why I work on responses whether that be in a form of a question or answers or something shown threw my body language. It's better to show some kind of response then do nothing at all especially when the other person is about to say "And you don't care what I'm saying at all..." When in fact I could retort that with a response gathered from what I actually listened too. It sometimes catches them off guard because its just that my response isn't usually "on time" like most people.
I'm 2 years late but I think people judging someone who doesn't do anything other than listen and sometimes just gives a short indication that he/she listened ("I see" most of the time) are really immature and terrible... Simply staying there and listen even though they could do a lot of other things is already a lot and personnally as I'm not a brat anymore I would never complain that x or y person don't care what I'm saying at all and even be grateful. One time I was with a friend and he was comforting an other friend (more like acquaintance at the time) so knowing I was not the kind to have the best advices to give I stood aside not to far away from them. I used to hate that lack of ability to give good advice or even talk to people in general (other than when it mattered or when I had something useful to say) but I realized it wasn't a bad thing that day cause to my surprise when they were finished the girl my friend was conforting thanked me for listening. Since then while I try to be able to help more when such cases happen again I don't really feel uneasy not being able to to anything but just listening. However I understand some people may want more than that and just in case I usually tell them than I might not be able to do anything other than listen.
@@LittleAl016 I don't think that support does actually anything to confirm Ninian x Eliwood, is just a story of Eliwood being a good, considerate boy as always
You know, you make some strong points and I may have to agree with you. (Love your content bro by the way!) But, I do wonder if Lyn's final words are really out of character. She does not say specifically that she needs him to survive, more so that she feels safe when with him. I'm sure that Lyn's soldiers feel safe under her command, does that make them weak? Not really a sign of weakness or dependance if you ask me. Just love talk. Also, people feel more comfortable and safer with those who share the same backround. Maybe my love of Rath is in effect here, or maybe as a student of psychology I disagree with what people define as "strong and independent." However, yes, this is a rushed support with little from Rath and Lyn who falls in love too fast.
@Gorade huh, I left a meme comment my dude. Ghast is my friend & I don't mind when people have different ships or don't agree with certain ships, we all have those :)
10:00 It is known that very hard moments of your life, or even traumas, are in your brain since it happened. So it doesn't surprise for me that Rath remembers that since he was 3. I actually remember things that happened when i was 4 with extreme clarity lmao. For the rest, nice vid tho
Rath/Lyn is a pairing that should, out of all things, work. I stand by this ship on principle and potential. Rath doesn't have many supports, so I feel like his character is suffering all around, as Ghast mentioned since he has only three supports. I don't have "one true pairing" with most Fire Emblem characters, anyway. I have like five other Lyn ships.
Dude, potential means absolutely dick all outside of anything but your head. The potential went unrealized, and to a startling degree at that. There needed to be more on both sides for this to work. There's just no chemistry here, it's completely devoid of it. That's just not something you could, or I should say, should overlook.
@@gorade1901 It kinda does. The writers are only human, so sometimes you get supports that shouldn't work "be the best" and vice versa. Your comment sounds too objective, which is fine, but you're saying it has no baring and "means dick all". Even you yourself said it went "unrealized".
Gorade I never said I'm overlooking bad writing, I even said that I _more or less_ agreed with this video, which isnt really the attitude of someone with their head in the sand. I consider myself a bit of a content creator, and yes, this means fan art and fan fic. I guess I just have a different approach to how I "deal" with things. 🤷♀️ Not looking for a fight, dude.
Rogue Slushy Really tho, these writers have to write so many supports, some are bound to be thrown to the wayside. And then there's the localization team that has to translate that stuff ... I mean, look at Awakening. There's a bunch of supports that are just copy and paste lol
potential ? principle? tell you what buddy, be rath with your significant other (SO) for a month, be silent, don't talk, don't adress the fears and hopes of your SO, 100% cheating guaranteed!
Thank you, I always hated this support conversation and paring. On my first run I did Lyn and Rath, I grew a dislike toward Lyn till I read the rest of her supports. The biggest problem I have is how Lyn just all of a sudden loves him. You said it best Rath silent character throughout the whole support conversation is more something Lyn would dislike or would get angry with. Lyn throughout the whole thing is so accepting of him and have no problem with anything Rath does. Only just say some backstory that kinda sound like a fanfic.
Learn to read between the lines, he literally divulges his entire painful past to her, you don't just do that to people you don't care for. His entire life was pain and abandonment, and this girl shows she cares and then accepts him when she learns his past, and they are able to just be with each other in the end and no words are needed, they can just be together and by happy- how is that not an amazing support?? Characters don't need to speak the literal words for us to understand the implications, we just have to look a little deeper instead of carrying shallow perspectives such as "oh they only did this because they're both Sacaeans, lame".
@@SeanathanMG Because it doesn't seem like enough was put in on Rath's end to EARN that kindness and ending. That's the main reason behind the complaint.
My take on it was, the basis of their relationship was that Lyn just had the hots for him the whole time. So she kept with all these zero chemistry lead-ins to try to stoke up a conversation and he was having none of it, because he was working on his own problems and didn't have any time to take on someone else's. So the two initially only connect on a very shallow level but they definitely had potential... So the confession she makes in the A-Support... it's not really a contradiction of her character because feeling protected is just something all people want sometimes.... but also, from the point of view that simple lust was the primary chemistry rather than either Romantic or Platonic attraction the first half of the A-Support should have been her opening line in the fucking C-Support. Then Rath's reaction needed to be him just shutting her down. That way the C Support would then flow like a slightly more intriguing version of their very first conversation, and there would have been something to maybe build off from. Oh well!
So basically lyn wana bang a strong guy Tbh i can see why its depicted as lazy writing and i still think it is but theres plenty of explanation for rath coldness for example his isolation trauma and lazy writer
It a great support well the wrighting sometime can be hit or miss but the core is great: Lyn and Hector are REALLY Similar character overall: Lyn identify herself as a plain warrior frist than a Noble, And Hector does the same He Identify himself as a Warrior frist than a Noble (and he run away form his Noble responsability), They go about the same way againts there strugle: She RUN AWAY form it, Or hide her TRUE felling about it beind a mask of optimisme, and go fight whit her friend and she doesn't want to show her felling until a A support and even than it can be hard for her to show her stugle hell I didn't know she had stugle whit being a noble before Gass video about her support whit Eliwood. (note Eliwood support isn't bad she open up to him but I don't think it as good as Hector's support tho it better to show off her stugle) Hector RUN AWAY and go spar whit Eliwood or fight brigant insteed of doing Noblility things, He also like to hide his felling physically tho he much better I fell to show them Whit dialogue compare to Her being good at showing it whit physical emotion (like crying) he doesn't cry but he tell her how he fell and he doesn't hide how he fell about thing... But he stugle whit showing it to ppl. That why I fell they make for such good pair up. (Similar character whit similar way to fight there probleme and similar value (they aren't carbon copy tho, like I just said Lyn seem to hide her felling alot more but is able to cry and blow up once she reach a cap or fell really safe around the other character, And Hector just can't cry but go a ready easy way of showing his emotion, Tho they also all strugle whit beeing seen as "Weak" Hector and Lyn bot have that stugle too, (Hector being unable to cry and haveing are time showing sadness and Lyn not likeing beeing seen as a weak and fragile fighter ETC. And way it hard to tell every thing and I may just say stuff that make no sence but any way I like them alot togheter. SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH
I feel like Lon'Qu was a really good version of a stoic character that with an imposed isolation onto himself after his childhood friend died due to his lack of ability had the ability to grow as a character in all of his supports. He is always recognized in his supports for being silent, but during his supports he chooses to speak to convey his inner thoughts and feelings. Rath should have been the same.
@@LeinRa-Reaction I guess you need to reread them as well. His convo with Will isnt even the support he opens up the most in. It's the convo this terrible video is attempting to talk about. Good try.
Yeah, this support sucks. That's why I pair her with Hector, their support is infinitely better. Plus I personally think Hector is a much better character as well Can't wait for Zerk's reaction though
Hector X Lyn for sure They are so similar they fit prefectly togheter. (Run away form Nobility Check), (Run away to go fight/hunt Check), (have hard time showing weakness to someone else Check "Hector: Because we’re friends, right? Say if you were much stronger than I was... Would that make me useless to you? Lyn: No... Of course not. Hector: Fighting isn’t everything on this journey, you know." Perfect It just Perfect They even growth togheter.
Really good stuff! I never understood the Rather pairing either. If possible, I have a couple of characters I would love to see given your analytical touch. The first one is Kent. Is he just a flat "knight in shining armor" troupe, or is there more to him that I missed or forgot after all the time away from the game. The second one is Micaiah. I would love a character breakdown of her, and to really explore her psychology. Regardless of if these ever come to fruition, great job, and I hope you keep it up.
Imagine 1. Being told you are destined to save the world, 2. Being exiled from your tribe because of this prophecy. 3. Joining an army that does saves the world, but 4. Being nailed to the bench because you are an under leveled bow locked user.
Damn this is the second time I’ve seen someone analyze Lyn and Rath while mentioning her other partners and just not even mention the name of Kent. Underrated partner (though to be fair I’m not sure when you’d mention him)
I completely agree. I must say that the one thing that bugs me the most is that this pairing probably exists just because Lyn and Rath are both from a tribe nothing else.
I feel like these kinds of characters, the silent types, would need way more than just three conversations with another person to build any sort of believable relationship in FE. If you are somewhat like that irl you know that it takes a long time to form bonds with people and you're rarely the one that starts the conversation. This support chains feels like B to A does way too big of a jump and they had to skip all the rest of the process. Also being completely silent during a conversation only really works if you have non-verbal communication going on to show that the person actually cares, done like this you can either think Rath is attentively listening or just looking at the clouds hoping this conversation would end soon.
If they didn't have to shove of all of Rath's "loner" part of his character into Lyn's chain, it would have been good. I mean his support with Wil is actually kind of funny. Maybe he could have had more supports with people questioning where his skill with a bow came from. Could you imagine if he had a support with Karel or someone like that? It's honestly disappointing how much more interesting his supports could have been.
THANK YOU GHAST FOR EXPLAINING THIS I AM SENDING IT TO EVERYONE I KNOW. PS: thank you for calling out putting them together just cause they're Sacaen! people won't admit it, but it is pretty damn discriminatory.
I mean in medieval time royal marry their cousin so marrying someone in close tribe i guess arent that bad and guess what both are forced God aint fair so is the world so yeah but still really lazy writing
As a kid I paired them because Sacae and Sue and the fact that I'd already paired off Hector and Florina, but dang, I forgot how forced this support was
This doesn't change my enjoyment of their Supports, but it does give me another look, and shows me the flaws to it. Its the same reason I like the Post Gen 5 Pokémon games; I recognize the flaws, but found the experience enjoyable all in all. It would be nice, however, if in a remaster, these two were given a stronger bond and more chemistry - but that would be adding even more fan service to a character who was already tainted by it.
Federico Porcel I remember a long time time ago just seeing it as a funny humor based support but it’s been a long time since I’ve read it so maybe I’ll see it differently
Much better than F!Corrin x Jacob, anyway. I mean who in their right mind would want to be married to an obsessive stalker (who is also a terrible father, might I add) who doesn't let you learn and make mistakes so you can grow?
For Supports that SUCK, could you do Lute and Knoll's support chain? I don't like how she treats Knoll and I feel she doesn't even improve by the end of the A support.
I'm SO glad someone addressed this. I've always hated this support chain because it had NO real substance, as opposed to the supports with Hector and Eliwood. And it's also frustrating always hearing people say they prefer the Lyn/Rath pairing simply based on their race and background. It's like saying black people can only date other black people, and white people can only date white. So glad to finally hear a voice of reason.
I personally like Lyn X Kent better. Kent actually has a crush on Lyn which is even revealed in his supports with Sain. Kent wishes to get her attention and does his best as a knight, becoming even stronger than he ever was before, and even more loyal as if it was possible. He later finds out that Lyn is uninterested in social standing and feeling that Kent is serving her solely because she is the Marquess of Caelin's granddaughter causes her to keep her distance from him. This pushes Kent to act and actually reveal to her why he's being so knightly. This is why I like this pairing. There's a dynamic these two have. It gives Kent a new motivation to keep fighting on, and while I agree it does more to Kent's character than to Lyn's, she does show that the people she cares about, she cares about them for who they are, not what they are, and it disheartens her to think Kent may not feel this same way about her. Which adds on to that dynamic. Well at least imo. Given me some points are probably invalid.
I think Rath might be more interesting if he actually distained his tribesmen for what happened to him. Actually the fact that he is just some mercenary with no real connection to anything could mean that the prophecy is bull or at least Rath could reasonably believe that or stubbornly refuse to believe it despite evidence to the contrary and his support could be about him learning to accept and let go of his past and frustration with his people through a relationship with lyn.
I'm finding it hard to argue the point on this one because nearly everything you've said I already agree with. I don't like the support between Rath or Lyn, I don't think they have any romantic chemistry, and perhaps most importantly, you are entitled to your view that Rath is diminished by the lack of focus he gets, both in this support and across the game as a whole. Certainly there aren't many I could persuade to share my view that certain characters are bettered by a lack of supports; that the mere fact that there are characters who will only interface with a limited number of others that they know and trust is in itself a means of characterisation... there's no real way to argue for that. Like my preference that every game should have a preponderance of sub-standard units to reinforce the idea that not everybody in the world can become an unkillable god, or stronger than a legendary character, just by training hard, regardless of how "liked" that character is or not. But that's an aside. Lyn's characterisation here is verging on being out-of-character, certainly, but I would assert that it still falls on the right side of the writing. Lyn's character revolves around her family; at least when we meet her, she has internally conflated the idea of her lost family with the plains of Sacae, so her fixation on Rath in the support is, to me, at least understandable. I've always resolved this support as being a sort of "bad end" for Lyn in the same way as her non-Support ending, in that she fails to recover from the loss of the Lorca and chases a facsimile. That's about all I've got to say about it; I don't see the fact that it does not help Lyn develop as a character as indicative of negative quality, only that it makes it, well, unlikable. For Rath's part, FE7 has a high commitment to "show, don't tell", so I can understand why Rath might not be prepared to straight-up spill his guts about his time presumably scavenging for scraps in Bulgar or being fed by wolves or whatever happened to be his means of survival. FE7 especially has a lot of characters who are clearly supposed to be the heroes of their own, different stories - like with Raven and House Cornwell, or Karel and his sword demon thing, they just happen to be characters who also took part in these events, without it being their life-defining moment. Think Heracles and the Argonauts. Obviously this is hard to argue for here since we're literally given a prophecy of "hey Rath, this is your life-defining moment" and naturally Rath would be a more compelling character if his own feelings on the issue of his life were given time for exploration. Sometimes I wonder if the prophecy in question was actually supposed to be referring to Sue and there was something lost in the Japanese-English translation. But that doesn't really change the circumstances of Rath's life. In short, I don't think it's bad or lazy writing but that doesn't make it appealing by any stretch.
Thank you for affirming something I was saying for years. Nothing against Rath, I am using him almost every playthrough, but his support with Lyn was pure disappointment and I regret I wasted time to build it.
If we are talking about more supports for Rath then a Raven and Jaffar supports would've been super interesting and silent as they are all the strong silent types. And maybe a support. And maybe a Rebecca if we needed a female. She could break through that Rath bubble any day.
Rath's best support by far is the one with Wil since they actually become friends so I like to think that once they get closer he introduces him to Rebecca to expand his social circle. That way there is a one and two to his "Normal Archer Number Three".
you don't need to like Lyn with any other person to dislike this support, the silent treatment, the coldness, it would be sad for Lyn to end up with Rath, and he is not a bad person, he is just not there, he is still alone in the plains, the support shoulda be a way for lyn to get him outta there.
Honestly, Blazing Sword as a whole did Rath dirty. He joins unpromoted two chapters after everybody should be promoted, and without Lyn mode, only at level 7. That means giving a prepromoted archer 3 level ups, which is far from fun on its own, and when most of your army is probably one-rounding stuff. He's better than the other archers thanks to his horse and sword, but he's still without a good 1-2 range option.
I knew so many people that shipped Lyn/Rath way back in the day (When FE was relatively new), likely for the shallow reasons mentioned in the video. Maybe it was just a different time and reading a bit too much into GameFAQS forums way back when. Speaking personally, I don't recall ever using him in any Hector or Eliwood run I ever did with the game either so I definitely forgot how bland his support was.
Thanks Ghast, I haven't felt anything for Rath and never bothered rereading his convos. The Rath Lyn ship left me wondering why, maybe I never actually got to A, though I was just lazy and never bothered to check(they do them). But here in a more clearer way than I'd conclude, especially the last convo. Admittedly, I felt a little self insert with Rath for Lyn there. She feels safe around ME.... Yea but Lyn isn't one for that
I feel like rath would've been better as a mute character who uses sign language to communicate, and his little supports are because it's not a common language outside of sacae. He feels isolated because he literally cannot communicate freely, maybe it's a dumb idea but i think it's more interesting than edgy stoic 3 yr old baby prophecy.
Maybe you can have, basic words or translations in brackets after establishing the sign language then he could truly fill out his role as an active listener or something
Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. I heard a lot of people saying this is a good pairing but when I looked at this support I honestly didn’t really get anything from it.
Honestly, I don't think that the Lyn/Rath support SUCKS per say, since the supports is consistent with the characters in the story, unlike some of Fates' supports with their respective characters (Xander, cough cough). But with the limited amount of supports and story bits that he's in, there's definitely room for it to be better. Simply having an S-support for the romantic bit instead of horseshoeing it into the A-support, where Rath finally starts to open up to Lyn, could make the pacing better and fill out more things for both Rath and Lyn. Also, this video being good and all, I actually agree on ZerkMonsterHunter4's tweet that these criticizing/negative video won't do good with the FE community in general. With the Elitist vs. Casuals thing raging on in the community (though not as heated as before), there's already enough negativity in the community, so please don't add more to the pile, please?
Lyn is half-lycian and if people ship them for an other reason than the support itself it would be because they like Rath and it's his only romantic option
Finally! I have never liked Rath, and this support explains why. He does nothing except give a stopgap between Sue and the leader of the Kutolah tribe, and unlike most of the characters in this game he never grows in his supports. He's there just to strengthen the bond between Blazing Sword and Binding Blade.
Okay, I'm in no way defending this support, in fact my Favourite Lyn Pairing is with Kent... However I can't help but feel attacked about your Quiet people comment. Sometimes we don't say anything at all, because we don't know what to say. It's not easy opening up to someone, even if you both resonate due to your similar heritage/history. It's extremely hard coming out of your shell, so we choose to stay distant, because we don't like getting attached to people. Also Rath Lyn > Hector Lyn
I'm also a fan of Kent x Lyn. I always thought my choice was weird due to the popularity of the other pairings! I don't think he was attacking quiet people to be honest. I am also someone who talking is never my forte and I know it will never be a skill I am as good with as others. I totally understand sometimes when we hear something or receive information it takes time to process that information, even sometimes having to wait for the next opportunity/conversation to properly express ourselves through words, and that's OK. Fear of saying the wrong thing can be overwhelming but you learn over time that its not actually a big deal, in fact most people are delighted to have a conversation at all! Whats not OK is expecting the other person (Lyn in this case) to telepathically just "get" you without effort or action at all. On top of that as Ghast argues Lyn has to sacrifice her character and become passive by somehow making her want Rath in order to make the conversation work. At that point it just becomes wish fulfilment and not character development, mostly for Rath even though the whole support has been designed to make him the topic of interest.
this is one of many supports that suffers of FE7 being a prequel. sadly, because the game puts as a pairing but the supports just left for the future. the profecy was about dayan not rath, there was a divide in sacae into go with bern or not even before fe6, the reason that the lorca were attacked was that they didn't follow that trend. i also think that misstranslation is a fact, because i remember a slighty different dialogue in the european version, i have played both and the european version is more polished. sadly since you had to do a support per save you had to play a lot of time to unlock the full story, and the three supports occurs at the same. for me it was always like a limitation that games like fe9 or fe12 doesn't have on their supports. like with the solo endings of lyn it is not now but an open to the future until (fe6). as a side note, sue is like lyn and shin is more like rath in story if not were that sue is dayan granddauther there were not relation and shin is not related, maybe the sprites are recicled, even that for lyn is the sprite of fir too. it is loose based and also to the eyes of the players to choose.
Here is my little take Near the end you mentioned how Lyn is projecting onto Rath Maybe the writers were hoping that people like me, who are sort of "quiet listeners" themselves would be able to do the same? Not to say that you are wrong and misunderstanding of Rath, on the contrary, again I am rather quiet, and I do not find it to be the interesting part of a person
Part of the A support should've been at least in the B support to slowly work Rath up to completely open up to Lyn (the age and survival problems aside). He definitely needed more of a role in the story somehow. Maybe as part of the prophecy, Rath could've given her the Mani Katti after seeing her skill with the blade and their relationship could've grown from there.
Sadly IS focused to much in the interactions between Hector and Lyn than Rath and Lyn. And this sucks because it seemed that they wanted to make this pairing canon with the paired ending that hints Sue's existence
If IS really wanted to make Lyn/Rath canon, don't you think that interactions between Lyn and Rath would have gotten the focus instead? Because, even in regards to FEH, it seems more like that IS wants to make Hector/Lyn canon.
@@LittleAl016 IS wanted her to be somehow relevant, because she's nothing but a tutorial character. The team realized that and changed her focus to a main character so she could have some relevance.
![Sain: Just an Archetype? [Fire Emblem: Support Science #22] Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jlzNH7C0qog/mqdefault.jpg)
![Sain: Just an Archetype? [Fire Emblem: Support Science #22] Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword](/img/tr.png)
🍀ＣＬＩＣＫ ＨＥＲＥ🍀
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*TL;DW . I like both of these characters but I think this supports doesn't serve either one very well. Let me know what you think down below. If you enjoyed this video, leave a like (To balance out the wave of dislikes). If you're new to the channel, please subscribe for more FE analysis.*
Its Blazing Blade
Unsubbed, unfollowed, blocked, disliked, unfavorited, unshared, unwatched and reported to FBI because the crests are to blame.
Not the Crests they most be protected like... I don't know wooloo!
Pheonixmaster1
epic comment
I knew PM1 will definitely comment here.
The crests of Takumi!!!!!
Claude Von Takumi + Crest of Blame
"Jugg loves Peri, And i dont hate him that much for it
*Starting tearing up*
Luv u too bro
Ngl I was waiting for this comment
Bro 😢💕
I love Peri too.
I love her to
Might I ask why? Not to hate. Just curiosity.
ZerkMonsterHunter4 is gonna be pissed
I was going to say that.
Prepare for a flame war :0
A Tactician named Lucky Pikachu I hope he is 😤
he already was on twitter lmao
@@LectornAnigame Real opinion hours
Supports that Sue
Nice pun, since Sue will sue after this.
@@TheBreakingBenny No she won't. She actually agrees with this video.
@@LittleAl016 Excellent!
Don’t use her name in vain
Supports witch are a sin.
I'd love to see him show some emotional gullibility. If/when they remake FE7 I'd love for him to have a support with Serra. Both supposedly abandoned by big figureheads, and they cope with it in the exact opposite way. Serra seeks to garner attention, while Rath doesn't want it. I think it'd be hilarious to see their C support have Serra rant and rant about herself while Rath just kind of stares at her. At the end it would go something like: "....You're a good listener. Do you do this often?"
"No. I just didn't feel the need to say anything. You seemed content enough to continue."
"Oh, uh, thank you?"
*C support achieved*
That sounds like a fun one actually.
Blazing blade remake would be so amazing ngl.
Imagine it getting the gaiden treatment
This pairing reminds me of that South Park episode where Cartman forces Token into a relationship with a black transfer student... just because they're both black 😂
Lol
that's how it should be
Well tbh thats really realistic sometime in minority its a really big problem if you marry someone from different tribe....im not saying in majority that issue doesnt show but its not as common and i have seen co worker got into fight with their family just bcuz even difference on just belief or political party its not bad support but its just lazy and some see that as bad bcuz people cant have minority issues but i can see why people see it as bad
I have a friend who is a good listener, and let me tell you, he never just stays absolutely silent. Staying silent feels like you're being given a cold shoulder and is a mark of a bad listener
"...a MARK of a bad listener." Iseewhatyoudidthere >;3
Ok, reading this comment and watching the video made me realize that I'm horrible at listening. Whenever I don't know what to say in a situation, I usually just say "I see" (which is probably worse) or just keep quiet. Thanks to you and Faerghast for letting me know what I'm doing wrong.
Exactly, good listening involves silence followed by meaningful contribution to the conversation. Two sets of ellipses is just... not. Just not.
Honestly that's the stupidest thing thing I've ever heard... When someone can't say or rather don't know what to say you can't mark someone as a bad listener. It actually makes YOU sound like a terrible person who judges people with baseless assumptions.
I would personnaly never think someone is giving the cold shoulder just because they're just listening and I would even be grateful. I'm too old to act like a brat.
@@Banditlord52 So, I'm a year late, but, no, don't change anything. If you don't have any meaningful things you think could help don't say anything. It does NOT make you a bad listener by any means !
I really liked the Saizo X Beruka convo support... oh wait... wrong game
MasterEnex It was a good support
Such insightful dialogue that really further develops both characters.
@@neog8029 ...
@@ntt996 ...
@@neog8029 ...
This is a cause to which I've never been so happy to lend my services. 👍🏼 It turned out pretty well.
You just want Lyn x Florina to be canon, don't you? ;)
@@NinjaSox7 Lyn and Florina don't end up together in their paired ending.
@@LittleAl016 i don't like the ship either lol
@@NinjaSox7 I was just pointing out a simple fact about the ship. Whether I like the ship or not doesn't really have any bearing on it.
Well, the best Rathsupport is with Normal Archer Number 3 anyway.
(But really, it's the only one when he break his facade, if only for a moment. Will is so underappreciated, honnestly...)
Wil is imo the best unpromoted bow user in this game. Either that or I've used him since the dawn of time.
Yeah, I really like this guy as a character too. It's like he just doesn't care and starts saying random shit, I love it.
Ghast vs. Zerk. The Canadian civil war.
SORRY
I'm Team Ghast!
@@OrangeKyle91 I can't pick a side
I feel like Raths story could have really been fleshed out if he had a boss quote with Uhai. Where Uhai mentions the prophecy in someway when seeing Rath in battle.
If they ever remake FE7, let’s hope they rewrite this support chain.
Add more Rath supports in general
nah, it's the way Rath is, a stoic, silent person, he is a ghost, not even alive. that's how he is.
@@dezlovecraft5247 Nice to see Jaffar and Rath will exchange stares instead of words.
Welp maybe he nvr had interaction evr since 3 so that affect the development of his brain that involved with social to be less developed btw interesting fact there was at least one recorded incident of a kid raised by wolf and she i think died by like 18 or something BUT even after several years in civilization she only knew few words (btw go search the source yourself) i believe its in the 80s?
My point was its not impossible rath is deficient in communication but strong on survival but more than likely THE WRITER WERE LAZY bcuz for some reason character development means opening up and soften up but they could at least talk more about rath life so im more convinced its lazy writing
@@michaelmagnimedia3331 In the writers' defense, they basically threw out hints that they think Lyn/Hector is canon, and that everything else in regards to their romantic pairs is tertiary. So...
Rath in a nutshell:
...
Rath: I like turtles.
Girl: I had a horrible day, I think I did a bad job in my presentation today
Rath: ........
Girl:I fear to lose my family
Rath:......
Girl: Are you there?
Rath: ...yes, I fear that too.
Girl:............ ok we are done.
Wil: "Normal Archer Number Three"
Rath: Falls off his horse laughing.
Thank you. Lyn is my favorite character but I hate this support. The fact that a lot of people view this as their "canon" pairing because of Sue never sat well with me.
@Green weed Redhead same. Also lyn isn't even in fe6 to warrant a pairing. Her being solo honestly makes the most sense.
I really like Lyn x Hector, their support are pretty good imo
Lyn X florina is true paring Kapa Kapa
@@ErilTheBarrel
I actually pair up Lyn x Avatar, so basically everyone loves Lyn!
ErilTheBarrel that reasoning doesn’t even make to me it’s totally possible Rath got with another sacaen woman after the war why does lyn have to be the only person rath can be with
I already replied this, but I think a comment could elaborate more on my idea. I think it's pretty clear that Lyn x Rath is controversial support/pairing, and it's clear to see why. Generally speaking Lyn and Rath have gone through relatively similar situations and can both relate to each other due to them both being Sacae. However, in the actual support nothing actually occurs. There is an effect and no cause. Even beyond that, neither of them really grow. Making the "effect" feel like a facade.
I think this could easily be remedied by having Rath show disdain at first, then become more lukewarm and sociable towards the end. You can already see him do this in WIl's support. Rath in general seems rushed as a character, and this pairing shows it. They had to have him act the "bad ass loner" in Lyn's support as it was probably written before his others, and that's why it was so rushed.
If he wasn't so rushed, I think this pairing would have EASILY been top tier. He could have also had so many supports with other character to flex his "bad ass loner" archetype. I mean, c'mon. A support conversation between him and Karel could have been a major eye opener into both of their characters.
Perhaps he could have someone like Marcus questioning where his skill with a bow came from. Maybe Lucius could have gotten concerned about his troubles, and attempted to aid him despite Rath's disdain. Another interesting idea is that perhaps he reminds Legault of one of his former comrades, and they have a paired ending where he helps Legault support the refugees.
So much potential... and it was all wasted.
Omg already love the title at the *SHOTS* fired at the very start with the title alone
Never clicked so fast
Wrong channel, go play heroes, stinky
Leonardo Owens I’d really like to, but money is really tight for me and I don’t have any recording equipment or a good computer. Definitely will make 3h content tho
I could have an A support for Lyn and Rath...
...Or I could just use the warp staff!
This is why my headcanon is that Sue gets a similar situation to Chrom if Chrom doesn't have at least a C support with a woman by chapter 10. Basically Lucina's mother being random maiden 649, can say the same for Sue's Mom.
EXACTLY!!
@@OrangeKyle91 I mean I do like Rath on his own as the whole cool silent archetype, but in regards to Lyn, he literally offers nothing. It's like talking to a wall.
I really don't get the "Lyn x Rath is canon because Sue has green hair" argument. Rath has green hair. Rath's father has green hair. She gets it from HIS side of the family.
@@BigKlingy And even just looking at Sue's hair, it's a very dark green. Not the shade you would see on Lyn. Also, one of Sue's official artworks, last I checked, even gave her black hair, which Lyn doesn't even have.
Chrobin superior.
You know... that comment about "starting the romance at the A Support" also sums up why I don't like Hector x Florina. Yeah, I said it. I have a lot of similar issues with that support chain to this one, the C and B supports have Florina barely doing anything (and their C is only barely more dialogue than Saizo x Beruka's localized C in Fates) and there isn't even any real romance in their A either, it's just "you talked to me once, I accept your gratitude", bam - married in the epilogue. The romance in Hector and Lyn's A may be subtle, but at least they get further conversations during the main story. Also, I get that some people like "opposites attract", but to me Hector and Florina are such radical opposites that I don't see them working as a couple at all.
Also often times you'll see Lyn and Hector ""fighting"" causing Chapter 19x to happen for example, while Eliwood (and Ninian when she's there) are behind kinda observing x)
Also when you think about it, having Eliwood x Ninian and Hector x Lyn, that would mean that the bloodline for Roy and Lilina's child would be insane xD Lycia, Dragonkin, Ostia, Caelin and Sacae xD
@@eizzah8323 Let's not forget Ilia. (That is, after all, where Ninian is from.)
Most ppl who like pairing Hector x Florina usually do it because Florina doesn't pair with any other male character.
Lyn and Farina have other options for romance as well, on top of it is just hilarious, considering Florina fears men and gets paired up with a brute like Hector
@@alonreed740 Doesn't make the pairing a good one.
I tend to be a bit quiet and reserved at times so I get the "good listener" argument. But as somebody who gets anxious and at times needs more time process things, I know sometimes I can come off as cold unintentionally which is why I work on responses whether that be in a form of a question or answers or something shown threw my body language. It's better to show some kind of response then do nothing at all especially when the other person is about to say "And you don't care what I'm saying at all..." When in fact I could retort that with a response gathered from what I actually listened too. It sometimes catches them off guard because its just that my response isn't usually "on time" like most people.
Welp practically the story of my life of i had more than like what 4 friends idk its def not more than 10 finger
I'm 2 years late but I think people judging someone who doesn't do anything other than listen and sometimes just gives a short indication that he/she listened ("I see" most of the time) are really immature and terrible... Simply staying there and listen even though they could do a lot of other things is already a lot and personnally as I'm not a brat anymore I would never complain that x or y person don't care what I'm saying at all and even be grateful.
One time I was with a friend and he was comforting an other friend (more like acquaintance at the time) so knowing I was not the kind to have the best advices to give I stood aside not to far away from them. I used to hate that lack of ability to give good advice or even talk to people in general (other than when it mattered or when I had something useful to say) but I realized it wasn't a bad thing that day cause to my surprise when they were finished the girl my friend was conforting thanked me for listening.
Since then while I try to be able to help more when such cases happen again I don't really feel uneasy not being able to to anything but just listening. However I understand some people may want more than that and just in case I usually tell them than I might not be able to do anything other than listen.
On a side note, I think Eliwood/Lyn is under-appreciated
Yeah I know, Ninian. Still, I think it’s overlooked.
Lyn x Eliwood was my first pairing when I found out back in 2004 you could have certain support pairings get alternate endings.
I have played FE7 7 Times and i have allways paired Eliwood and Ninian
But... Eliwood x Fiora is top tier my guy.
Not overlooked. It's just that most people nowadays know it's very unlikely to happen because of the Lilina/Marcus B Support.
@@LittleAl016 I don't think that support does actually anything to confirm Ninian x Eliwood, is just a story of Eliwood being a good, considerate boy as always
You know, you make some strong points and I may have to agree with you. (Love your content bro by the way!) But, I do wonder if Lyn's final words are really out of character. She does not say specifically that she needs him to survive, more so that she feels safe when with him. I'm sure that Lyn's soldiers feel safe under her command, does that make them weak? Not really a sign of weakness or dependance if you ask me. Just love talk. Also, people feel more comfortable and safer with those who share the same backround. Maybe my love of Rath is in effect here, or maybe as a student of psychology I disagree with what people define as "strong and independent." However, yes, this is a rushed support with little from Rath and Lyn who falls in love too fast.
Title: "[Supports that Suck] Rath/Lyn"
Hector × Lyn Fans: *CHEERS*
*CHEERS!!!*
CHEEEEEERSSS 😎😎😎😋
CHEEEEERS!✨🎉🎉
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 cheers
Honestly I did when I read the title.
God I'm so glad someone's actually come out and said why Rath/Lyn isn't a good ship.
Facts
Agreee Agreeee
Someone with balls.
It's not as controversial than an explanation about why Lilina/Roy is not good
It is though... you don't have to like it, but it is... Sorry.
so what you're saying is...we need an adventure jrpg featuring Rath and his many tales of Heroics throughout elibe!
Oh boy, PhoenixMaster1 is gonna be triggered by this
Indeed he was
@Gorade huh, I left a meme comment my dude. Ghast is my friend & I don't mind when people have different ships or don't agree with certain ships, we all have those :)
@@Pheonixmaster1 The worst thing that could happen would be finding toxic Fire Emblem fans... Just saying.
10:00 It is known that very hard moments of your life, or even traumas, are in your brain since it happened. So it doesn't surprise for me that Rath remembers that since he was 3. I actually remember things that happened when i was 4 with extreme clarity lmao.
For the rest, nice vid tho
Yeah thats also explain why i have no memory of my childhood....and i agree fuck i still want to forget everything even my existence
Rath/Lyn is a pairing that should, out of all things, work. I stand by this ship on principle and potential. Rath doesn't have many supports, so I feel like his character is suffering all around, as Ghast mentioned since he has only three supports.
I don't have "one true pairing" with most Fire Emblem characters, anyway. I have like five other Lyn ships.
Dude, potential means absolutely dick all outside of anything but your head. The potential went unrealized, and to a startling degree at that. There needed to be more on both sides for this to work. There's just no chemistry here, it's completely devoid of it. That's just not something you could, or I should say, should overlook.
@@gorade1901 It kinda does. The writers are only human, so sometimes you get supports that shouldn't work "be the best" and vice versa. Your comment sounds too objective, which is fine, but you're saying it has no baring and "means dick all". Even you yourself said it went "unrealized".
Gorade I never said I'm overlooking bad writing, I even said that I _more or less_ agreed with this video, which isnt really the attitude of someone with their head in the sand. I consider myself a bit of a content creator, and yes, this means fan art and fan fic. I guess I just have a different approach to how I "deal" with things. 🤷♀️ Not looking for a fight, dude.
Rogue Slushy Really tho, these writers have to write so many supports, some are bound to be thrown to the wayside. And then there's the localization team that has to translate that stuff ...
I mean, look at Awakening. There's a bunch of supports that are just copy and paste lol
potential ? principle? tell you what buddy, be rath with your significant other (SO) for a month, be silent, don't talk, don't adress the fears and hopes of your SO, 100% cheating guaranteed!
Thank you, I always hated this support conversation and paring. On my first run I did Lyn and Rath, I grew a dislike toward Lyn till I read the rest of her supports. The biggest problem I have is how Lyn just all of a sudden loves him. You said it best Rath silent character throughout the whole support conversation is more something Lyn would dislike or would get angry with. Lyn throughout the whole thing is so accepting of him and have no problem with anything Rath does. Only just say some backstory that kinda sound like a fanfic.
Learn to read between the lines, he literally divulges his entire painful past to her, you don't just do that to people you don't care for. His entire life was pain and abandonment, and this girl shows she cares and then accepts him when she learns his past, and they are able to just be with each other in the end and no words are needed, they can just be together and by happy- how is that not an amazing support?? Characters don't need to speak the literal words for us to understand the implications, we just have to look a little deeper instead of carrying shallow perspectives such as "oh they only did this because they're both Sacaeans, lame".
@@SeanathanMG Because it doesn't seem like enough was put in on Rath's end to EARN that kindness and ending. That's the main reason behind the complaint.
My take on it was, the basis of their relationship was that Lyn just had the hots for him the whole time. So she kept with all these zero chemistry lead-ins to try to stoke up a conversation and he was having none of it, because he was working on his own problems and didn't have any time to take on someone else's. So the two initially only connect on a very shallow level but they definitely had potential... So the confession she makes in the A-Support... it's not really a contradiction of her character because feeling protected is just something all people want sometimes.... but also, from the point of view that simple lust was the primary chemistry rather than either Romantic or Platonic attraction the first half of the A-Support should have been her opening line in the fucking C-Support. Then Rath's reaction needed to be him just shutting her down. That way the C Support would then flow like a slightly more intriguing version of their very first conversation, and there would have been something to maybe build off from. Oh well!
So basically lyn wana bang a strong guy
Tbh i can see why its depicted as lazy writing and i still think it is but theres plenty of explanation for rath coldness for example his isolation trauma and lazy writer
Or lyn always had a thing for rath in this case
Would you make a Hector & Lyn Support review as well?
I'd like to know your thoughts on that one as well.
Super Gamer Lalo He goes over that support in both the Hector and Lyn support science :)
did't he kinda already did that when he made an Overview of Lyn's characther?
It a great support well the wrighting sometime can be hit or miss but the core is great:
Lyn and Hector are REALLY Similar character overall:
Lyn identify herself as a plain warrior frist than a Noble, And Hector does the same He Identify himself as a Warrior frist than a Noble (and he run away form his Noble responsability),
They go about the same way againts there strugle:
She RUN AWAY form it, Or hide her TRUE felling about it beind a mask of optimisme, and go fight whit her friend and she doesn't want to show her felling until a A support and even than it can be hard for her to show her stugle hell I didn't know she had stugle whit being a noble before Gass video about her support whit Eliwood. (note Eliwood support isn't bad she open up to him but I don't think it as good as Hector's support tho it better to show off her stugle)
Hector RUN AWAY and go spar whit Eliwood or fight brigant insteed of doing Noblility things, He also like to hide his felling physically tho he much better I fell to show them Whit dialogue compare to Her being good at showing it whit physical emotion (like crying) he doesn't cry but he tell her how he fell and he doesn't hide how he fell about thing... But he stugle whit showing it to ppl. That why I fell they make for such good pair up.
(Similar character whit similar way to fight there probleme and similar value (they aren't carbon copy tho, like I just said Lyn seem to hide her felling alot more but is able to cry and blow up once she reach a cap or fell really safe around the other character, And Hector just can't cry but go a ready easy way of showing his emotion, Tho they also all strugle whit beeing seen as "Weak" Hector and Lyn bot have that stugle too, (Hector being unable to cry and haveing are time showing sadness and Lyn not likeing beeing seen as a weak and fragile fighter
ETC. And way it hard to tell every thing and I may just say stuff that make no sence but any way I like them alot togheter.
SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH
I feel like Lon'Qu was a really good version of a stoic character that with an imposed isolation onto himself after his childhood friend died due to his lack of ability had the ability to grow as a character in all of his supports. He is always recognized in his supports for being silent, but during his supports he chooses to speak to convey his inner thoughts and feelings. Rath should have been the same.
Reread Rath's supports then- he even laughs in his convo with Wil
@@SeanathanMGthere should be more than just his support with Will where Rath actually opens up, even a bit
@@LeinRa-Reaction I guess you need to reread them as well. His convo with Will isnt even the support he opens up the most in. It's the convo this terrible video is attempting to talk about. Good try.
@@SeanathanMG Nice joke.
@@LittleAl016 just stating facts verifiable by evidence and common sense
I like the Lyn x Rath pairing, but yeah the support itself is on the weak side.
Ghast went sicko mode on this support and I am here for it
lmao the "Araphen is as kind to Sacaens as newspapers to spiders" could be interpreted as a spiderman joke
Yeah, this support sucks. That's why I pair her with Hector, their support is infinitely better. Plus I personally think Hector is a much better character as well
Can't wait for Zerk's reaction though
Hector X Lyn for sure They are so similar they fit prefectly togheter. (Run away form Nobility Check), (Run away to go fight/hunt Check), (have hard time showing weakness to someone else Check "Hector: Because we’re friends, right? Say if you were much stronger than I was... Would that make me useless to you?
Lyn: No... Of course not.
Hector: Fighting isn’t everything on this journey, you know." Perfect It just Perfect They even growth togheter.
@@charleouel9012 This
Phoenix, Zerk, this is why Hector x Lyn is best ship
@@MiniBlackWaltz Hehehe Glade you agreed whit it
@@charleouel9012 #facts
Yeeep I always am a Hector x Lyn shipper since 2005 hahaha
Really good stuff! I never understood the Rather pairing either. If possible, I have a couple of characters I would love to see given your analytical touch.
The first one is Kent. Is he just a flat "knight in shining armor" troupe, or is there more to him that I missed or forgot after all the time away from the game.
The second one is Micaiah. I would love a character breakdown of her, and to really explore her psychology.
Regardless of if these ever come to fruition, great job, and I hope you keep it up.
Imagine
1. Being told you are destined to save the world,
2. Being exiled from your tribe because of this prophecy.
3. Joining an army that does saves the world, but
4. Being nailed to the bench because you are an under leveled bow locked user.
Legit you made that intro for Zerk lmao
Damn this is the second time I’ve seen someone analyze Lyn and Rath while mentioning her other partners and just not even mention the name of Kent. Underrated partner (though to be fair I’m not sure when you’d mention him)
Yess before I met Hector, I actually like Kent to be with Lyn... He is a great man
It’s also a shame because Sue and Dayan are SO interesting, and get more to develop with all.
I completely agree. I must say that the one thing that bugs me the most is that this pairing probably exists just because Lyn and Rath are both from a tribe nothing else.
Shallow perspective on your part...
@@SeanathanMG Not really.
I feel like these kinds of characters, the silent types, would need way more than just three conversations with another person to build any sort of believable relationship in FE. If you are somewhat like that irl you know that it takes a long time to form bonds with people and you're rarely the one that starts the conversation. This support chains feels like B to A does way too big of a jump and they had to skip all the rest of the process.
Also being completely silent during a conversation only really works if you have non-verbal communication going on to show that the person actually cares, done like this you can either think Rath is attentively listening or just looking at the clouds hoping this conversation would end soon.
If they didn't have to shove of all of Rath's "loner" part of his character into Lyn's chain, it would have been good. I mean his support with Wil is actually kind of funny. Maybe he could have had more supports with people questioning where his skill with a bow came from. Could you imagine if he had a support with Karel or someone like that? It's honestly disappointing how much more interesting his supports could have been.
Man, I felt you were mentioning Rath to spite Zerk's old video, in your Lyn video, and just seeing this title, I just find it hilarious :D
THANK YOU GHAST FOR EXPLAINING THIS
I AM SENDING IT TO EVERYONE I KNOW.
PS: thank you for calling out putting them together just cause they're Sacaen! people won't admit it, but it is pretty damn discriminatory.
I mean in medieval time royal marry their cousin so marrying someone in close tribe i guess arent that bad and guess what both are forced
God aint fair so is the world so yeah but still really lazy writing
As a kid I paired them because Sacae and Sue and the fact that I'd already paired off Hector and Florina, but dang, I forgot how forced this support was
This doesn't change my enjoyment of their Supports, but it does give me another look, and shows me the flaws to it. Its the same reason I like the Post Gen 5 Pokémon games; I recognize the flaws, but found the experience enjoyable all in all. It would be nice, however, if in a remaster, these two were given a stronger bond and more chemistry - but that would be adding even more fan service to a character who was already tainted by it.
So in other words, not the worst thing ever, just not amazing. Certainly better than Hinoka x Azama, right?
Certainly better than Tethis X Arthur, at least.
Seriously, look that up. It's awful.
Federico Porcel I remember a long time time ago just seeing it as a funny humor based support but it’s been a long time since I’ve read it so maybe I’ll see it differently
Much better than F!Corrin x Jacob, anyway. I mean who in their right mind would want to be married to an obsessive stalker (who is also a terrible father, might I add) who doesn't let you learn and make mistakes so you can grow?
Saizo × Beruka is still the best.
@@slightlystarvingartist3952 I think you've confused Jakob for Camilla... XD
For Supports that SUCK, could you do Lute and Knoll's support chain? I don't like how she treats Knoll and I feel she doesn't even improve by the end of the A support.
Is that The one where Lute attacks Knoll whit magic?
@@mystergamer0750 Yeah.
Well, you can' t improve what is already perfect.
I'm SO glad someone addressed this. I've always hated this support chain because it had NO real substance, as opposed to the supports with Hector and Eliwood. And it's also frustrating always hearing people say they prefer the Lyn/Rath pairing simply based on their race and background. It's like saying black people can only date other black people, and white people can only date white. So glad to finally hear a voice of reason.
I personally like Lyn X Kent better. Kent actually has a crush on Lyn which is even revealed in his supports with Sain. Kent wishes to get her attention and does his best as a knight, becoming even stronger than he ever was before, and even more loyal as if it was possible. He later finds out that Lyn is uninterested in social standing and feeling that Kent is serving her solely because she is the Marquess of Caelin's granddaughter causes her to keep her distance from him. This pushes Kent to act and actually reveal to her why he's being so knightly. This is why I like this pairing. There's a dynamic these two have. It gives Kent a new motivation to keep fighting on, and while I agree it does more to Kent's character than to Lyn's, she does show that the people she cares about, she cares about them for who they are, not what they are, and it disheartens her to think Kent may not feel this same way about her. Which adds on to that dynamic.
Well at least imo. Given me some points are probably invalid.
Mister Koopsy RIGHT! That pairing is criminally underrated and so is Kent himself so many people just call him boring
as a person who ships Kent and Lyn together, I 100% agree with you
I like Lyn x Kent too. His Fiora support's too good to pass up for me tho lmao
I always liked Lyn x Kent too, and was sad to me how the shipping wars was always Hector vs Rath
Dat one-sidedness, though.
I think Rath might be more interesting if he actually distained his tribesmen for what happened to him. Actually the fact that he is just some mercenary with no real connection to anything could mean that the prophecy is bull or at least Rath could reasonably believe that or stubbornly refuse to believe it despite evidence to the contrary and his support could be about him learning to accept and let go of his past and frustration with his people through a relationship with lyn.
Uhai > Rath
There I said it Deal whit it (and he got like 3 line of dialogue or something)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Uhai talks as much in one chapter as Rath does in the whole game.
@@OrangeKyle91 yah probably 😉
YES!!!. Hector x Lyn has so much more to offer.
Especially when hector asked lyn if she got wet lol
Let's not forget about that love confession. Or about Lyn comforting Hector.
@@LittleAl016 Their dialogue on the Pirate Ship in Hector mode is amazing too
You lot just have no taste.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 We're not the ones who pair Lyn with someone who she has no chemistry with.
@@LittleAl016yet still pair her up with the the ship that leads her to a mediocre ending for her character.
I can only imagine how a certain monsterhunter will react to this
I'm finding it hard to argue the point on this one because nearly everything you've said I already agree with. I don't like the support between Rath or Lyn, I don't think they have any romantic chemistry, and perhaps most importantly, you are entitled to your view that Rath is diminished by the lack of focus he gets, both in this support and across the game as a whole. Certainly there aren't many I could persuade to share my view that certain characters are bettered by a lack of supports; that the mere fact that there are characters who will only interface with a limited number of others that they know and trust is in itself a means of characterisation... there's no real way to argue for that. Like my preference that every game should have a preponderance of sub-standard units to reinforce the idea that not everybody in the world can become an unkillable god, or stronger than a legendary character, just by training hard, regardless of how "liked" that character is or not. But that's an aside.
Lyn's characterisation here is verging on being out-of-character, certainly, but I would assert that it still falls on the right side of the writing. Lyn's character revolves around her family; at least when we meet her, she has internally conflated the idea of her lost family with the plains of Sacae, so her fixation on Rath in the support is, to me, at least understandable. I've always resolved this support as being a sort of "bad end" for Lyn in the same way as her non-Support ending, in that she fails to recover from the loss of the Lorca and chases a facsimile. That's about all I've got to say about it; I don't see the fact that it does not help Lyn develop as a character as indicative of negative quality, only that it makes it, well, unlikable.
For Rath's part, FE7 has a high commitment to "show, don't tell", so I can understand why Rath might not be prepared to straight-up spill his guts about his time presumably scavenging for scraps in Bulgar or being fed by wolves or whatever happened to be his means of survival. FE7 especially has a lot of characters who are clearly supposed to be the heroes of their own, different stories - like with Raven and House Cornwell, or Karel and his sword demon thing, they just happen to be characters who also took part in these events, without it being their life-defining moment. Think Heracles and the Argonauts. Obviously this is hard to argue for here since we're literally given a prophecy of "hey Rath, this is your life-defining moment" and naturally Rath would be a more compelling character if his own feelings on the issue of his life were given time for exploration.
Sometimes I wonder if the prophecy in question was actually supposed to be referring to Sue and there was something lost in the Japanese-English translation. But that doesn't really change the circumstances of Rath's life.
In short, I don't think it's bad or lazy writing but that doesn't make it appealing by any stretch.
Thank you for affirming something I was saying for years. Nothing against Rath, I am using him almost every playthrough, but his support with Lyn was pure disappointment and I regret I wasted time to build it.
ZerkMonsterHunter4 v Ghast: DAWN OF S SUPPORTS PAIRINGS
Inb4 ZerkMonsterHunter4 👀👀👀
If we are talking about more supports for Rath then a Raven and Jaffar supports would've been super interesting and silent as they are all the strong silent types. And maybe a support. And maybe a Rebecca if we needed a female. She could break through that Rath bubble any day.
Rath's best support by far is the one with Wil since they actually become friends so I like to think that once they get closer he introduces him to Rebecca to expand his social circle. That way there is a one and two to his "Normal Archer Number Three".
i always found it weird how lyn and guy never got a support together
I don't really care about Rath's character, but I like him as a unit.
Rath is basically a discount version of my favorite mounted archer from FE 6. No wonder Dayan preferred the Chad Sin over his son and granddaughter.
Sue has Roy bases so of course Sin would look more appealing.
Lyn/Hector Master race checking in
you don't need to like Lyn with any other person to dislike this support, the silent treatment, the coldness, it would be sad for Lyn to end up with Rath, and he is not a bad person, he is just not there, he is still alone in the plains, the support shoulda be a way for lyn to get him outta there.
Honestly, Blazing Sword as a whole did Rath dirty. He joins unpromoted two chapters after everybody should be promoted, and without Lyn mode, only at level 7. That means giving a prepromoted archer 3 level ups, which is far from fun on its own, and when most of your army is probably one-rounding stuff. He's better than the other archers thanks to his horse and sword, but he's still without a good 1-2 range option.
I knew so many people that shipped Lyn/Rath way back in the day (When FE was relatively new), likely for the shallow reasons mentioned in the video. Maybe it was just a different time and reading a bit too much into GameFAQS forums way back when. Speaking personally, I don't recall ever using him in any Hector or Eliwood run I ever did with the game either so I definitely forgot how bland his support was.
The prophecy would've worked better if it actually *delivered* at *any* point in the series (yes, even Binding Blade).
The prophecy doesn't have to be literal. Not a lot of them are.
Lyn has more chemistry with Hector. Just saying.
Understatement of the century. Especially since they work so well together as a unit.
Calling out the worst support in the game? Bringing up my FE7 OTP Lyn/Florina as better in every way??? I approve 10/10 video instantaneously. XD
Thanks Ghast, I haven't felt anything for Rath and never bothered rereading his convos. The Rath Lyn ship left me wondering why, maybe I never actually got to A, though I was just lazy and never bothered to check(they do them). But here in a more clearer way than I'd conclude, especially the last convo. Admittedly, I felt a little self insert with Rath for Lyn there. She feels safe around ME.... Yea but Lyn isn't one for that
I feel like rath would've been better as a mute character who uses sign language to communicate, and his little supports are because it's not a common language outside of sacae.
He feels isolated because he literally cannot communicate freely, maybe it's a dumb idea but i think it's more interesting than edgy stoic 3 yr old baby prophecy.
Maybe you can have, basic words or translations in brackets after establishing the sign language then he could truly fill out his role as an active listener or something
And that would make his relationship with Lyn better since she could actually TALK to him.
Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. I heard a lot of people saying this is a good pairing but when I looked at this support I honestly didn’t really get anything from it.
So Hectyndis FTW?... Yeah, Hectyndis FTW
Aye ayeeee!!
Lmao I'm actually in the middle of playing FE7 and have been figuring out who Lyn should have A rank with. hmm..guess that narrows it down ..
Honestly, I don't think that the Lyn/Rath support SUCKS per say, since the supports is consistent with the characters in the story, unlike some of Fates' supports with their respective characters (Xander, cough cough). But with the limited amount of supports and story bits that he's in, there's definitely room for it to be better. Simply having an S-support for the romantic bit instead of horseshoeing it into the A-support, where Rath finally starts to open up to Lyn, could make the pacing better and fill out more things for both Rath and Lyn.
Also, this video being good and all, I actually agree on ZerkMonsterHunter4's tweet that these criticizing/negative video won't do good with the FE community in general. With the Elitist vs. Casuals thing raging on in the community (though not as heated as before), there's already enough negativity in the community, so please don't add more to the pile, please?
I feel like most people that like this Rath-Lyn thing are like Cartman shipping Token with Nichole just because they are black. Same thing here
Lyn is half-lycian and if people ship them for an other reason than the support itself it would be because they like Rath and it's his only romantic option
This is pretty much the predecessor to the Olivia/Lon'qu supports.
Nah. That would be Ayra/Chulainn. Which is better than Lyn/Rath and Lon'qu/Olivia, if you ask me.
Thank you for saying whats always bugged me.
Rath:::.....
Jaffar:......
Rath:......!
Jaffar....?
Rath:.......
C support achieved.
"Insert thank you gif"
Isak Wolff “I can watch a gif of this happening for hours”
Finally! I have never liked Rath, and this support explains why. He does nothing except give a stopgap between Sue and the leader of the Kutolah tribe, and unlike most of the characters in this game he never grows in his supports. He's there just to strengthen the bond between Blazing Sword and Binding Blade.
Sorry, but that opinion is terrible. You can dislike a character all you want but basically everything you said is objectively wrong.
@@SeanathanMG Not really.
New Supports that suck
Thanks, now I can watch something while having dinner
I mean if they said the tribe assume that he is the chosen one in a prophecy and not in the age of 3, more on 5 to 6, it may be better.
Ooomph, Validation never felt so GOOD
Okay, I'm in no way defending this support, in fact my Favourite Lyn Pairing is with Kent...
However I can't help but feel attacked about your Quiet people comment. Sometimes we don't say anything at all, because we don't know what to say. It's not easy opening up to someone, even if you both resonate due to your similar heritage/history.
It's extremely hard coming out of your shell, so we choose to stay distant, because we don't like getting attached to people.
Also
Rath Lyn > Hector Lyn
I'm also a fan of Kent x Lyn. I always thought my choice was weird due to the popularity of the other pairings!
I don't think he was attacking quiet people to be honest.
I am also someone who talking is never my forte and I know it will never be a skill I am as good with as others. I totally understand sometimes when we hear something or receive information it takes time to process that information, even sometimes having to wait for the next opportunity/conversation to properly express ourselves through words, and that's OK. Fear of saying the wrong thing can be overwhelming but you learn over time that its not actually a big deal, in fact most people are delighted to have a conversation at all!
Whats not OK is expecting the other person (Lyn in this case) to telepathically just "get" you without effort or action at all. On top of that as Ghast argues Lyn has to sacrifice her character and become passive by somehow making her want Rath in order to make the conversation work. At that point it just becomes wish fulfilment and not character development, mostly for Rath even though the whole support has been designed to make him the topic of interest.
It's okay to say that you don't like quality if you actually think that Hector X Lyn is worse than a ship with no chemistry.
Rath/Wil is sooo underrated
Agreed. Normal archer number three for life. He's the only one who was ever able to get any sort of positive reaction from the guy.
this is one of many supports that suffers of FE7 being a prequel. sadly, because the game puts as a pairing but the supports just left for the future. the profecy was about dayan not rath, there was a divide in sacae into go with bern or not even before fe6, the reason that the lorca were attacked was that they didn't follow that trend. i also think that misstranslation is a fact, because i remember a slighty different dialogue in the european version, i have played both and the european version is more polished. sadly since you had to do a support per save you had to play a lot of time to unlock the full story, and the three supports occurs at the same. for me it was always like a limitation that games like fe9 or fe12 doesn't have on their supports. like with the solo endings of lyn it is not now but an open to the future until (fe6).
as a side note, sue is like lyn and shin is more like rath in story if not were that sue is dayan granddauther there were not relation and shin is not related, maybe the sprites are recicled, even that for lyn is the sprite of fir too. it is loose based and also to the eyes of the players to choose.
Awesome vid ghast amazing analysis and writing as always
Here is my little take
Near the end you mentioned how Lyn is projecting onto Rath
Maybe the writers were hoping that people like me, who are sort of "quiet listeners" themselves would be able to do the same?
Not to say that you are wrong and misunderstanding of Rath, on the contrary, again I am rather quiet, and I do not find it to be the interesting part of a person
Ooof.
Goes to show IS didn't care about Rath in the slightest....
To make up for that:
-RATH FOR FIRE EMBLEM HEROES-
-OR ELSE-
Nah, I rather see Sue's grandfather.
Some people are NOT gonna be happy with this.
well sucks to them. I don't 100% agree with the video but that's what debate is for
Part of the A support should've been at least in the B support to slowly work Rath up to completely open up to Lyn (the age and survival problems aside). He definitely needed more of a role in the story somehow.
Maybe as part of the prophecy, Rath could've given her the Mani Katti after seeing her skill with the blade and their relationship could've grown from there.
The very pits of Muspell pale in comparison to how hot this take is
Hector hector hector!
Sadly IS focused to much in the interactions between Hector and Lyn than Rath and Lyn.
And this sucks because it seemed that they wanted to make this pairing canon with the paired ending that hints Sue's existence
If IS really wanted to make Lyn/Rath canon, don't you think that interactions between Lyn and Rath would have gotten the focus instead? Because, even in regards to FEH, it seems more like that IS wants to make Hector/Lyn canon.
@@LittleAl016 IS wanted her to be somehow relevant, because she's nothing but a tutorial character.
The team realized that and changed her focus to a main character so she could have some relevance.
@@MikeySeregon That doesn't even address my question.
Prepare for Zerk's wrath.
I hope you would do a Lyn and Hector support analysis
Take a look at his Support Science videos talking about Hector and Lyn.
thank you for putting into words why I could never get behind the Rath/Lyn ship. I could never explain it, so at least someone could