Update: I was wrong about everything. This was just me desperately trying to hold the logic of transgenderism together for the sake of my identity. It didn’t work. I think deep down I always knew that it wouldn’t. I’m now detransitioned.
One of the better arguments for transgenderism that I've encountered. I am a Ben Shapiro fan but you did a good job of critiquing him. And you did it without insulting anyone. Something both sides fail at quite regularly.
Rachel L Ben Shapiro doesn’t really insult he’s just cold towards people who oppose him. He doesn’t give a single fuck about feelings. He doesn’t purposely attack people to make them feel bad he just states facts and studies in a fashion that angers people.
@@greenpigking6974 what everyone is tip toeing around is he is a dick or an asshole. He is and that is his only downfall. But I think that is the balance of thr world. Image he was very soothing to the ear and compassionate while making the same logical points! He would rule the world.
I'm a fan of Ben, but I hate the click bait titles like, "Ben Destroys Crazy Radical Feminazi" or "Ben Roasts Idiot Libtard." For me, it kinda makes me not want to click on the videos because the titles are so subjective.
I know right? and 99.9% of the time when you watch it.. it was hardly a "Destroy" or "Idiot got roasted". it ends up being a simple question and Ben just answers it...
thank you! and they always have to have the all caps verb even if it's not an exciting verb. "Ben Shapiro RESPONDS to Idiot Liberals" "Ben Shapiro ANSWERS a Question at a Q&A Session" "Ben Shapiro BREATHES in a Liberal College"
Jeez, I’m gonna be that jerk, I guess. Watch it again, let all that good, happy energy pass, then try to remember one argument he presented Ben. He says a lot of very agreeable things that seem like arguments, but I dunno.. The kid legit warms this grow ass mans cold republican heart, but isn’t it a bit of a stretch to call this a good “response” video?
I’m a very, very conservative person when it comes to politics and today’s issues. But he made a very good argument 👏🏻👏🏻. The best I’ve every heard on gender identity/gender roles. :)
Will Bourner V There are some pretty ignorant people from prestigious schools. That’s not to say they’re dumb, but I’m sure the Dunning-Krueger effect can kick in.
@Duded Duded well, all he said was that you don't need to specifically have a degree from Harvard to be considered an intelligent individual. People that graduated in Oxford, for example, could be considered smart, according to what he said. So I think it's a fairly rational, obvious and unbiased statement.
Man, you really are such a respectable person. Not everyone can make a solid argument against Ben Shapiro, and even fewer seem to hear him out and think about it. I'll be one of the first right-wing losers to say that I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro. I disagree with him for different reasons than you, but you are very good at holding your own opinion, and that's pretty fucking respectable, so props to you, man.
Sarban I wish Ben Shapiro would be more polite, I guess. Polite isn't the right word. I guess I wish he had more respect for the other side. In some cases, it's more than understandable (when the room has just filled with screaming SJWs who want to stop people just because they don't like what they're hearing). I think he should be more direct in answering questions because on more than one occasion, he more or less dodges a question or answers in a way that doesn't answer the person's question. Now, normally, I'd say that this doesn't really matter because everyone misses questions sometimes and everyone is bound to not know the answer to something, especially questions that are biased on the opinion opposite yours. This is a problem for me because he uses that same behavior (dodging questions/answering questions with more questions) as "proof" that the person is wrong, which is especially aggravating when it is to the people who were calmly and politely asking questions to him, he dodges a question and asks them one instead, and that person is unable to answer. Nobody likes when that happens to them. It's not a cool thing to do, and a solution is not going to come if you listen to only one side. Both sides need to compromise and find a middle path. (I'm more right-wing than Ollie, which means we're seeing different things from different points of view, which is more than okay. I like to listen to people I disagree with so I can have a more rounded opinion.) Hopefully this wasn't too scatter-brained and you're able to understand it.
Very few people are more respectful than Ben, just because he dismantles their arguments doesn't mean he's not being respectful. If someone tells me "Hey the earth is flat" and I'm thinking "Uh, it's round" then I prove it, and you have an issue because you feel I "disrespect that person", that's where "facts don't care about your feelings" comes in to play. I'd like to know, where did he ever ask a question that "dodges" someone else's question, i've never seen that other than in a place where his answer to his question would answer the very question they are asking, that is NOT dodging a question. If you had issues with Ben's "Global Warming" stance, i could respect that, but in terms of "he's rude", no, that's not true. Look at the groups he's offering to debate, honestly, if you think Ben's rude, I'm wondering what you think of the typical LBGTVLOLBBQ protestor, or worse, the Young Turks?
Roo H It's not that I disagree with him, and by disagreement, assume that he is rude because our views don't line up. My views don't line up one hundred percent with his, but it would be strange if they did. I just think that he could do less mocking of his audience who are asking questions. If someone asks him a question that is slanted in the way opposite of his (which is not always by people who necessarily are trying to knock him down off of his intellectual high ground, though I know there are plenty of people who do that), I think he could handle it in a much better way. Instead of immediately treating them like dumbasses (though I might agree that many of them are just that), he could try to explain things from their point of view. He's very intelligent, and I think that if he were to explain things to them with an eye on the metaphorical slant (for example, recognize that their language is biased to begin with, the tell them why their "evidence" has already been refuted through things he's said) he could have so much more of a positive impact. As for the people who come in and their entire purpose is to "stump Ben Shapiro" or whatever, I think they should be handled with an equal amount of respect. Just because they don't give well-deserved respect doesn't mean that everyone else should stoop so low as to do the same things they do. Anyway, that's just my point of view. I don't mind you disagreeing with me by any means, and I understand what you are saying. I just believe that, if we want people to understand, we should be respectful, even when our opponents are not.
I think I, over all, agree with you that Ben Shapiro's attitude towards trans-people is a bit... off. I remember his interview with Blaire White, and his whole "I won't call trans-people their chosen gender!" thing felt very awkward when speaking to someone who passes as well as she does. Even someone who doesn't pass perfectly can be seen to be trying to present as their ideal identity, enough so to not be confusing. The problem happens if someone is truly confusing in what they appear to be. (P.S. You are not confusing, you look like a young man, so you are a young *man*.)
This isn’t accurate, if you really stay up with Ben then you would know that the only time he wouldn’t call you your gender to which you identify is when you are talking about that issue or having a debate about that issue. So I suggest that you do some research on it.
I'm a conservative Trump supporter and a huge Ben Schapiro fan and the video you were taking those quotes from is one of my favorites. I have always been on the fence about the transgender issues and I'm always looking for new ideas and new perspectives. This video has really opened my mind to the idea that gender is different than sex. The idea that I would be living the same life in the same room with the same pink bed sheets with my same female friends wanting to wear the same clothes and wear the same make up but have a penis instead of a vagina makes a lot of sense to me. I can't control what I like and don't like so how can a trans person control that either? That's the same as in the 1900s making gays have sex with their opposite gender. They can't control their sexual preferences. I just wanted to say thank you, your ideas are extremely thought-provoking and I'm really glad that I found this video. (I had to stop halfway through the video to write this comment because I feel so passionately about it)💕
Due to the tremendous level of respect and humility that you brought to your presentation, I, a conservative Christian and Ben Shapiro fan, have subscribed to your channel. I cannot begin to describe to you how refreshing it is to see a liberal conduct his or her self with such dignity and intellectual honesty. It is also a relief to know that I can question your arguments without being thought of as a hateful person. Here are some UA-cam channels that should make for a good place to venture outside of your echo chamber: Roaming Millennial, The White Rose, Blair White (a fellow trans person), Lauren Southern, PragerU, WeAreChange, Psyche Matters, Bite-size Philosophy, Sam Harris, The Ruben Report (a classical liberal), Jason Allsup, etc. I think you will particularly be interested in Jordan B. Peterson. He is a professor of psychology that has very interesting lectures. Also, www.STR.org is a great website for logical arguments in favor for Christianity.
Ollie has already done a video chat with Peterson - worth watching his video about it! Classical liberals such as Ruben and the atheists such as Harris/Dawkins have fairly strong liberal viewership - that is the section of liberals who are ideologically individualistic rather than those who focus on collectivism. They are valuable voices of reason.
Freaking this. Also props to fellow republicans for being respectful in the comments. Love this atmosphere, screw this polarizing crap you guys, facts and level heads change more minds then violence every time.
雨Jacob 雨 I ain't into that long tirade that is irrelevant to the OPs point: it's nice when people respectfully engage in intelligent conversation, regardless of disagreements. That's it. Nice and simple.
cheaze69 idk Ben Shapiro expresses his frustration towards the first point made about gender identity in one video. He says that it’s a delusion and a made up term to justify and classify the delusions of trans gender people. I think it definitely is a disorder and we still do need to change the way we address the issue. Supporting it doesn’t seem to help.
This is the most well constructed argument for transgender people I have heard so far. It is not entirely based on accusations and emotions. I did not expect to like this video.
Thank you for the like. Both Ben Shapiro and I have nothing against transgender people. Who do not support bullying, violence, or any kind of forceful methods to try and “fix” transgender people. We just oppose legislation that makes denying you your gender a hate crime or forcing every institution to build a third gender restroom.
A nice critique. You should see if Ben is doing any events near you in the near future, and see if you can take a thoughtful line of questioning to him during Q&A. I side with Ben on most issues, but agree that his 'why aren't you 60' response wasn't the best one.
Ahh, I really hope people see this and realize we can be on "opposite sides of the isle" and disagree without using shields and bats and yelling over each other. I'm loving this comment section, let's use facts to change minds, not fists. You're pretty brave, guy. Not even the bigger lefty channels test their luck with the Hebrew Hammer! Thanks for existing.
I wish I could upvote that again. As a conservative, I have had to tell my more progressive friends that we can disagree and still be friends. Unfortunately, most of THEM don't see it that way.
> And David's suffering was thanks to... John Money No no no, no no. Why does everyone dodge the elephant in the room? David's suffering was the fault of the DOCTOR WHO CIRCUMCISED HIM. He would have suffered, period. No one learns this from David Reimer's case: routine infant circumcision is evil.
Why do you fight feminism? What is so destructive about it? That it unfairly disadvantages men? What is circumcision then? Women are federally protected from genital cutting. There's no greater way that men are legally discriminated against. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116
+Patrick Seiter Yes- I know circumcision in the US (and many other parts of the world) is extremely fucked up, and that there are no US statutes to protect men from genital mutilation, yet there is one for women, and that feminism isn't doing shit to help that situation. What's your point? I was simply correcting Ollie on his mistake and talking about how fucked up John Money was. Yes, what happened to David with the botched circumcision was completely unnecessary and fucked up, but what Ollie was talking about wouldn't have happened without Money.
Comic Book Guy "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit" had an episode that was basically a revenge Fantasy on the twins behalf. It's a pity his brother did not will his genitals to him for transplantation (he died in a car wreck, I think losing him was the last straw), as it would have taken easily in identical twins.
Patrick Seiter I sometimes wonder if we were as petty as the Postmodernists that should boycott Kellogg's simply because of the quack who founded them. Anything good Dr. Kellogg accomplished was entirely by accident, like his cereal. His "Yogurt Enema" therapy DID have benefits, but none of them were based on his stated premises. Unbeknownst to him, they were entirely due to reintroducing probiotics to guts that were deficient! Secular medicinal circumcision is, rarely, necessary for sever phimosis, like my dad had have in his twenties. Even if it runs in the family, however, it is hard to tell for sure if an individual has it until his penis is at least half his adult size, usually age 10-12. As with all medicine, a child should NEVER get more then what they absolutely need to stay healthy. As a legal adult of sound mind, they can do whatever they want.
I think most elderly people are a little trans-age. My grandma still felt like a young woman inside when she was in her 90s. I think the soul of her younger self always stayed with her.
Dunno where all these dislikes came from, pretty much everyone I've seen in the comments seem to agree that this was a good, well articulated video, and that includes fans of Ben Shapiro.
@@jo0syjuice Oh, transphobia, cool. Thanks for subjecting me to that my man. That being said I can see that you yourself have commented on behalf of the Shapiro stan gang, so I'd like to ask you a simple question: have you ever considered that these people are mainly interested in being seen as their preferred gender purely as it applies to society? Chromosomes and genitalia are largely irreverent when you consider the fact that nobody is able to see the former, and unless they're in bed with said person, the latter as well. Fact remains that if you saw Ollie on the street with no context as to his history or background, your instinct would not tell you to refer to him with she/her pronouns. One last thing; seeing as you're seemingly so enraptured by dictionary definitions, here is the definition of gender as defined by the dictionary: "either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."
@@gruetwo3424 First of all, not everyone that disagrees this video is transphobic, just like people that don't agree with you aren't racist or sexist. Just as much as the left in general is so upright about misgendering, they are quick to misjudge. It's interesting how you mention chromosomes are irrelevant. They are literally the genetic makeup of you, they determine what you, are. Just because somebody can't outright see them doesn't mean that they don't exist. It's a fact, as it "applies to society", men are DIFFERENT than women. Men naturally have a denser bone structure. Women naturally mature faster. They are different, and saying you are one or the other can't just be thrown around. Socially, things have impact. A great example of this is the Fallon Fox incident. Man for almost all of his life up until he decided to be a woman just to destroy women in boxing. "I say if you had a dick at one point in time, you also have all the bone structure that comes with having a dick. You have bigger hands, you have bigger shoulder joints. You're a f***ing man. That's a man, OK? You can't have... that's... I don't care if you don't have a dick any more..." - Joe Rogan. When you force me to call you, and perceive you what you biologically aren't, it's not that I'm depriving you of your humanity, it's just that, in the well spoken words of ben shapiro, facts don't care about your feelings.
@@jo0syjuice Wasn't so much referring to the people respectably disagreeing with the video (who were few and far between) as much as I was the people who weren't really making any argument in the first place and presumably just commented on the video to be edgy edgelords. Of course I wouldn't immediately assume that someone who say supports Trump for example is automatically racist or whatever, but if I then hear them go on about the bell curve or being a race realist etc. I'm gonna start raising a few eyebrows. I find it funny that Shapiro stans always immediately jump to Fallon Fox as their primary point of reference, when it's such an arbitrary scenario which hardly applies to the larger trans population as a whole. I take the fact that they can seemingly only argue against transgenderism as it applies to as niche an area as gendered sports as a sign that they really have no objection to them as applicable to the rest of society. What you fail to realize however, is that even within the field of gendered sports, biological differences are ultimately considered negligible when put up against differences in technique and body movement: ua-cam.com/video/J-p-mxHMoEA/v-deo.html Facts don't care about your feelings, and fact is biological male/female differences aren't nearly as major as you people make them out to be, and even the gendered differences which do exist are largely irrelevant outside of the relatively niche category of gendered sports. Fact is if you came across Fallon Fox, just randomly on the street or something with no background information as to her past, your instinct would not tell you that she is a man, that being because differences in biology tend to take a backseat in comparison to socially defined gender norms when determining what gender a given person is, and this is a point I've never seen any Shapiro stans sufficiently contend with.
Ben is a pretty intelligent guy...and I agree with a lot of what he says. But in the transgender and gay issue I think he is wrong. Where I appreciate him is he finishes of his thoughts with "welcome to america you do not have to care what I think"
Leonardo Caicedo well any business or religious institution should have the right to deny service to anyone because no one has a right to anyone’s service because if they did that would be called slavery. Would you force a Jewish bakery or synagogue to serve Nazis?
Leonardo Caicedo if it’s a public business then it is funded by the government. Btw Jim Crow was governmentally imposed discrimination people didn’t do it willingly. There were laws on the books forcing businesses to discriminate and if they didn’t they would be prosecuted. Discrimination is not profitable in the free market market because you lose out on your money. If a business denies me a service for being Native American it’s a lose lose scenario because they don’t get my money and I don’t get their product or service. Nobody wins. The free market offers a wide variety of services in which if one business discriminates then another won’t and will outcompete the discriminatory business thus forcing that business to not discriminate if they want to stay in business
No matter how high your intelligence is, humans are imperfect,and we shouldn't assume just because someone like ben is smart, that he's always right. this goes for whoever else is your role model.
Educational achievement doesn't necessarily equate to great intellect. Experience gained through doing things, trying things, discussing, debating and allowing yourself to always be open to something new are how you become more intellectual. Where Ben Shapiro falls short in this list is that he is no longer open to new thoughts. His opinions are very much set and when you begin to view your opinions as fact or superior in intellect to somebody else's you cripple your ability to gain further insight into the problems that matter to you.
I agree with you and I said in numerous other Ben Shapiro videos that he's way off the mark on gender/transgender issues and he needs to stick to politics. Ben Shapiro is the end result of someone who is on their high horse after making a name for himself and winning some debates then thinking he's king of the world and the authority on every topic and issue
I appreciate your effort, but nobody is trying to debunk transgender-ism. You are also wrong about the trans rights movement being about control by the leftists, it is being pushed as an agenda as the next civil rights. You are taking one or two particular cases individually and using the exception as a means to prove the rule. In the US, the NHIS has released the stats saying that 0.3% of the population self identifies as trans. Which such an amazingly small percentage of people feeling this way, how is this the next civil rights movement? I know a number of trans people, most of them just want to live their lives and not be put on display and not be held up as the poster children for the leftists always looking for a new cause to champion in order to keep themselves appearing to be relevant. I think the main point you are missing from Ben is as you rightly pointed out he is NOT denying trans people their humanity. He is saying that the first time a child, note the word child might act as the opposite sex we should not rush out and put them on hormones. That is the last resort. The lefts are pushing this agenda instead of saying rightly so that it's child abuse. As for people that transition, the suicide rate is statistically the same for people before and after their transition. So clearly all these people that are now being pushed into embracing their transness (I made that word up) are being sold a bill of goods. Honestly I think you and Ben agree, I think you are just taking a few of his glib comments in a public debate and running with them. You yourself acknowledge there is a mental health side to things and that needs to be explored first. Either way, I appreciate your efforts and your willingness to have an actual discussion instead of just shouting people down as nazis that don't agree with you. Good luck and keep your mind open and your ears as well. I wish you all the best going forward.
i'm pretty far right and i really appreciate a lot of the points you made this video. many right wing and even centrist people just don't want to think too hard about gender identity controversies because they hope it'll just go away somehow, since so few trans people exist. but i think it's important to think about the nature of gender identity no matter what "side" you're on. especially considering that such a large portion of society seems to have an opinion on transgenderism. it's new. it's cool that you give a fuck about the truth, you're a cool person. i subscribed :-)
Progressive activism has completely hijacked epistemology through the dilution of words that previously had specific and technical meanings. Case in point: the way the words "male" and "female" are currently understood by a significant portion of the population. Previously, these were species agnostic designations of a bimodal population pattern based on anisogamy and the traits correlated with it. Reproductive anatomy that produces a specific type of gamete, a hormone profile, autosomal chromosomes and physical/behavioral dimorphism. This is an undeniable feature of the homosapiens species. But some time in the last century, the new designation of "gender" popped up. Gender is a linguistic designation, but was co-opted in technical literature to describe identity/behavioral bimodality aside from physical. The irony, of course, being that this bimodality was exceptionally correlated with the biological sex bimodality in human populations. So much so that the names for these "gender" designations were directly borrowed from the sex designations instead of fabricated de-novo. The gender names currently mirror the sex names because of this exceptional correlation. Yet this is where the breakdown is. Progressive activism operates as though the order of these terms came to be used is reversed, and is somehow prescriptive on top of that. In effect, that "biological sex" is a construct that follows from gender, and that it acts as a prescriptive mechanism to oppress people. In the activist's mind, gender has been completely unbounded from sex. Without grounding, "gender" as a concept came to unrestricted. Now "gender" is nothing more than a mood designation. There are 42, 73, 💯, a million, infinite genders, with new ones added every day. This nonsense wouldn't be so much of a problem if the original "male" and "female" weren't casualties to it, along with "biological sex." The very concept of sex is treated as an oppressive prescriptive construct and not the useful descriptive category that it actually is. The original gender designations just happened to use the same words as the sexes, so sex as a concept is being demonized to promote gender. Yet, again, irony of ironies, this only happened because gender was so exceptionally correlated with sex as to be self evidently synonymous. This situation leaves us in many pickles. Aside from the general breakdown of language and communication, it impacts medicine and health. A specific issue that we're seeing pop up is the conceptual understanding of related words such as "homosexuality" and "heterosexuality". These words used to indicate sexual attraction and behavior related to an individual's biological sex relative to the sex of their partner. However we now live in a world where gender has superceded sex, so now the words mean sexual desire/behavior related/relative to GENDER. This just confuses the issue, because people can experience sexual attraction and engage in sexual behavior agnostic of gender identity. Quite obviously, however, sexual attraction and behavior is almost exclusively focused on biological sex, in correlated anatomical features. This is why biological sex is an important and relevant distinction, separate from gender, in discussions of behavior and medicine. People like Riley Dennis and Zinnia Jones would have you believe that sexual attraction is based on gender alone, and not biological sex. This idea is, of course, quite frankly absurd to anyone with a basic scientific understanding of evolution and sexual selection theory. They deny the existence of exceptional, bimodal, species wide patterns in morphology due to a minority of outliers, and call this "science." Yet the consilient and robust framework of evolution that the entire enterprise of biological science rests upon is dismissed out of hand. In closing, the way that progressive activism is undermining the use of specific/technical definitions and language is a huge problem. At best it is causing a communication barrier that is preventing people from precisely and accurately conveying concepts information. At worst it is a symptom (maybe a self-perpetuating cause) of a growing cult of science denialism on the left, which is invading acedemia. Invoking Orwell tends to be outwrought these days, but it is important to remember how indispensable language is in the face of newspeak. Additionally, how important it is to protect the conventions and institutions that are tasked with elucidating and conveying basic truths. We're quickly sliding into a world of distorted language and corrupted acedemia designed to obscure and confuse for the purpose of activism. The same type of activism is what Jordan Peterson calls the Postmodernists. Now, more than ever, precise, clear, and accurate language, and rigorous, evidence based replicable science both need stern advocates.
雨Jacob 雨 so are you going to address the argument or does it being copy/pasted refute the argument? How can you claim they don't know any science without any reason yourself? Sounds like science denialism.
My thing is, how would a person born a man actually know what being a female feels like without trying to embrace gender stereotypes ? Not all girls act like girls and not all boys act like boys.
Great fucking video man. It's so nice to have someone that isn't drenched in postmodernism representing our community on political issues. You're a brave guy, this video is sure to piss off people on both sides, but you speak the truth. I watched the video you're talking about about a month ago, and I hadn't been able to answer the trans-age question. I think you did a fantastic job. tl;dr i only love one man (you) (and jordan peterson)
+dangerdonut Ollie did not refute or answer the transage question!! She misunderstood the relevance and purpose why Ben even made that argument!! it was NOT a great fucking video !! it was verbal diarrhea . based on HER own bias and presuppositions
You have to resort to insults, and provide no reasoning. He didn't insult anyone, and used extensive reasoning. As a result, I believe him, and think less of you.
m p Finally i see a decent comment in this cesspool of nothing burgers. you are exactly right. and the amount of "right winger" comments falling for this crap is very telling how both sides are ridden with emotionally malleable sheep.
니로다 가미니 파띠바다 아리야사까 드까 Yes, both sides have many malleable sheep. but the difference is that Republicans have a few malleable voters, but Democrats are composed ENTIRELY by ignorant, malleable sheep.
You're a gentleman and a scholar, and I wish you the best. I don't think I agree with your analysis of trans-agism (not sure what to call it). A 10 year old being upset that they can't be 3 years old anymore sounds to me like not wanting the responsibility that comes with age. In my experience (purely anecdotal evidence incoming), I've never seen anyone looked down upon for behaving "older" than they actually are. Maturity and the ability to handle responsibility are often viewed as good qualities, while childishness is often ridiculed. I've never heard of a toddler being told to "act their age" for example. I myself wish I could go back in time and be a kid again before needing to worry about bills and work, but I don't believe that means I suffer from age dysphoria. I think that just means I'm lazy and want a simpler life with fewer responsibilities. I do agree with you however, that we don't know nearly enough about trans people's brains and more research needs to be done. There are very real biological differences that separate men and women, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch that one of those differences should be brain chemistry (please note that my degrees are in no way related to psychology, and I'm completely pulling this out of my ass). I think it's a safe starting point to think it's definitely possible that a boy could be born with the chemical makeup of a girl's brain, and vise versa. I believe you're absolutely right in that we need to see how this pans out before coming up with a standard practice for dealing with folks with gender dysphoria. If it's as simple as taking a pill that corrects a chemical imbalance, great. If it's more serious than that and would require complete reconstruction of a human brain to change it from a girl brain into a boy brain, then perhaps gender reassignment surgery would be better (and safer, I believe. Risk of brain damage is not a thing I like to think about). All I know for certain is that however you chose to live your life is none of my fucking business and if I met you I would gladly have a drink with you, sir.
Uhm, that's why he said "age dysphoria" was not a thing? He was saying there were similar aspects with gender dysphoria and gave the example of him as a kid, but since there are clear cognitive functions that change constantly in your brain as you age, "age dysphoria" cannot be a thing, unlike gender dysphoria where parts of the brain that make up how a man's or woman's brain fundamentally is are affected.
So, if a 12-year-old identifies as a 21-year-old, technically he or she could walk into any place in the United States that sells alcohol and purchase an alcoholic drink. Correct?
if you google the definition for both of them there almost the same, they both say it's either a female and male but neither of them say you can change it.
It used to mean the same as sex, but somehow the trans community has taken it and given it a different meaning. Nowadays it's somewhat of a homonyme. I hoped that this cleared things up. Regards!
Vincent S Because suicide of a trans person is not something that can be equivocated so simply to trans=suicide. So many factors go into suicide that you're shoving under the rug for your own agenda. A suicide is much more than one issue, it's a lifetime of suffering or an incredibly sudden/acute amount of suffering that leads someone to do it. You can't pull statistics like that and act as if it's the end-all for why being LGBT+ is wrong when an LGBT+ person is so much more than their identity. Ollie is so much more than trans, I'm so much more than bisexual, and you're so much more than what you identify with. We're people, not a single statistic or math equation. Also, just as a side note, if you're going to play that stats card of "30% of suicides are LGBTQ" then that means *70% of all suicides are from straight and cis people*. Look at your stupid logic there... EDIT: Also, sources for those numbers???
SoulEater Evans I believe she even said that she considered suicide so I don't think I swept anything under the rug. And the last claim you make, tell me first what percentage of people in America are straight and how many are gay....it's not hard. Give me a statistic of what percentage of straight people commit suicide in America like I gave you of how much LGBTQRSTUV members make up in America. It's irrational to compare an overwhelming majority of people to a small statistic of people and say that the overwhelming majority makes up for more of the suicide rates. I mean no shit they also make up for more of the living rates.
SoulEater Evans I think you misunderstand actually. When I said 30% it is in the LGBT community alone not all of americas population. That means of 100% of LGBTQRSTUV identifiers, 30% commit suicide. That is significantly higher than any other identifiable group
SoulEater Evans just look it up www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide/ www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/8/11/12438678/cdc-report-queer-teens-health-risk-suicide www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093285/#!po=10.0000
SoulEater Evans, people often confuse these statistics, including Vincent S. The percentage refers to suicide attempts, not actual suicide, and the percentage is higher. I invite you to read one of the most comprehensive studies of attempted suicide in the transgender community. It was conducted a few years ago by the Williams Institute at UCLA in conjunction with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. The study was released in January 2014. Over 6,000 transgender people participated in the study. Among other things, they discovered that suicide attempts, not actual suicide, are upwards of 40%. That statistic does not change even if the person underwent reassignment surgery. It is also approximately 10 times higher than the overall attempted suicide rate in the United States. The percentage drops to 36% when the person is not identified by others as being transgender. There are many more interesting facts you can read about, but they all say the same thing: something is terribly wrong in the transgender community.
The problem is some people use dictionary definitions of a word. Merriam-webster 2a is :sex. Definition 2c is :gender identity. Saying gender is sex is still correct. Most people that say gender isnt what a trans person says it is are using the more common older term for gender. It is not wrong and not hate speech. There is a word for a female sex that identifies as male, it is female. That is the sex. If you want to express it further you can say you are a trans male. There is nothing wrong with that. A transmale is not a male. Males are vulnerable to things such as prostate cancer. A trans male does not have to worry with that. They do have to worry with things such as ovarian cancer, that males do not have to worry with. Trans age does exist. Have you never seen women in their 50s or 60s that tries to dress like they are 20. (No, I am not being 100% serious) I did enjoy the video, it is clear you have thought on this though.
"gender and "sex" meant the exact same thing (within male/female context of course) 20 years ago, until college liberals decided to arbitrarily change it. Seriously, look at a dictionary from the 1990s. "Gender" was a nicer word to use for people that didn't like to say the word "sex" when teaching kids about male/female differences.
It's interesting that you decided to give trans-age a thought for a few moments. There do exist people who claim to be trans-aged, and, indeed, a couple of years ago thefederalist (right-leaning, libertarian/conservative publication) had an article written on the very subject. This author was faux complaining of the discrimination that the trans-aged suffer and how the Obama administration had a civil rights blindspot in respect of persons who are afflicted by this alleged disorder. The article is in large measure satirizing various attempts by the Obama administration to accommodate people who aver they have gender dysphoria by way of imposing upon the liberties of everyone else in respect of them. Mental disorders obey their own variant of rule 34: if you can imagine a mental disorder/condition, no matter how preposterous, there's someone who claims to (or will once it's conjured into existence claim to) be afflicted by it. Typically, they already exist. There are even websites on which people can discuss the different manifestations of their various age-identity issues (often it's mostly fantasy play, but there are also people in those groups who claim to really suffer from age dysphoria). It took me under a minute to find several such communities which are related to the subject. For example, see this thread: ddlgforum(dot)com/topic/16777-age-dysphoria/ You claim it is a joke or that it isn't a thing in the same way that many 'on the right' take issue with your ostensible condition. Are you going to go tell those people who claim to be suffering from this disorder that it's a joke, that it's not a thing? I'm certainly not in a position to know what they really feel, for only they can truly know. The flippancy with which you dismiss them is the selfsame maneuver with which your issue is dismissed, and for the same reason. This will remain true if they have face lifts galore to fight the wrinkles age visits upon all who live sufficiently long. No matter what they do, their age won't change. And no matter what a transperson does, his/her sex won't change. And gender identity is, no matter how you gussy it up in metaphor or disguise it with anecdote, phenotypical. That's an expression of the genotype as it interacts with one's environment. Whatever surgical procedures you have, or whatever hormones you take, you're stuck with what nature bequeathed you. I presume for any mental disorder there will be some underlying structure of the brain that causes it inasmuch as there exists no manifestation of our personality that isn't an expression of the genotype in an environment. It would be very bizarre if there existed an aspect of our personality that didn't have a material cause in the physical brain since that would imply that Cartesian dualism is in fact true; that is, our mind is not predicated upon the existence or function of our physical brain: they are ontologically distinct entities. Nothing known to science to date is compatible with such a proposition. In the ordinary case, when someone has some manifestation of personality that's several standard deviations removed from the mean, we don't entertain the delusion* by playing along. We try to find ways to help them cope with it and function as well as they can, the disorder notwithstanding. It's also false to claim that it's not possible for a 50 year old man to return his brain to a state in which he lacked formal operational reasoning. It's entirely possible to surgically damage the region of the brain that's the locus of such a mental process. Indeed, there are people who have such organic defects caused by trauma and/or disease. What you should say, but fail to say, is that if and when a person claims to have such a disorder, what we do not do is perform that kind of invasive surgical procedure to accommodate their discomfort. Rather, what we'd do is offer them therapy to cope with the age that they really are instead of pretending that any assertion about what they personally feel like their age is is in fact correct. So too with people who think, for example, their arm doesn't belong to their body (amputee identity disorder). We don't cut off their arm to appease them. We try to help them come to terms with having that arm. We take the opposite tack with people who wish to beautify themselves, or resist the external manifestations of age. *delusional: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary If someone who is born male claims to be female despite the evidence that he is in fact male, that is a belief regarding the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary. It's no response to that uncontroverted evidence to say: yeah, but I was born into the wrong body. (indeed, that by definition is idiosyncratic) Ben Shapiro also is at pains to point out, as he puts it, that until like five seconds ago the DSM defined this as a disorder. Further, it still defines this as a disorder, but with more convoluted and softer, more humane sounding language. A person with amputee identity disorder can make exactly the same claim in response to one's proving that their left arm has been there since birth. They can always say "yeah, well, it was attached to the wrong body". Perhaps they could go on to explain that they're a chimera or some such to further embellish/rationalize the claim. This is how we define self-referential mental disorders - a person has a view about him or herself which is not consistent with externally verifiable facts, who in turn continues to make the assertion notwithstanding those objective facts. I should also note that so long as the claim is not very far from the extrinsic facts, we take that as just ordinary variation within the psychological analogue of the empirical rule. So, the argument, so far as I can see it, would need to be reposed within that space, but the existence of dysphoria is the fly in the ointment. If it's within the range aforesaid, it shouldn't cause dysphoria - or more precisely shouldn't be expected to cause it. If it causes dysphoria, then one should expect that it's very far removed from the normal variation; i.e., it's sufficiently strange and manifests in psychological distress of such import that it's in the disorder category rather than the ordinary variation category.
These "new right" pundits rely on finding the worst people with opposing arguments they can find, and then acting like that's the only argument, when in reality their ideas could be quickly destroyed by anyone who isn't part of a fringe ideology that doesn't truly represent progressive beliefs.
Except what good does that do when those "true progressives" are all buried inside universities and the cringefest is what's out there in the world, in the media and in real politics?
FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE "gender" was simply a polite way of saying sex, without the possibility of being misunderstood as referencing sexual intercourse. I am very Libertarian-minded, so I don't really have a problem with trans people live their lives however they see fit. I just wish they'd pick a different word. You have millions of people over 50 who are completely lost on the idea that "gender" doesn't reference the genitalia you were born with. Gender and genitalia of birth were always one and the same for their entire life experience. Redefining a word that was already well understood just doesn't make sense.
So the issue here is that the word “man” comes from Latin and means a human (with a hand specifically) and “woman” means with a human hand AND a womb. Gender was a word that described a set of words, it had nothing to do with adjectives or identity until a group of humanities ideologue professors decided it should be. (Masculine and feminine would literally be the adjectives to describe identity). Dictionaries are changing the definition on gender. Society is changing the definition of gender, you are expressing this view of the term gender as fact. The argument from my perspective has nothing to do with how we treat trans people, it has everything to do with if this particular group of professors get to arbitrarily change the historical English language at will
This is so interesting. I'm glad others are liking it as well. For a long time people have been bashing on transness and no one had a reasonable response that wasn't more of the same. People just focus on the brains part or the gender versus sex part. No one that I've seen would go after more than that without ruining their argument by contradicting themselves. It's awesome to see someone my age taking on such a complex thing so resolutely (for lack of a better word). Everyone outside acts as if they have an answer that "destroys" trans people, so it's great that a person on the inside is showing the attitude this discussion really needs. It's a conversation, not a WWE match. The ending really got me as well. This won't mean much in terms of how you see yourself, but I've never thought of you as female.
Mason Hendricks no person with a penis should be allowed in the female bathroom, i really dont care(or anyone i know) who enters to the male one though. the reason being men being much more predatory than women. i also have heard so many times this brain function argument that i took it from granted, i guess i should do some digging.
Mason Hendricks While I disagree with your claim that transitioning does not help lessen suicide rates. I don't know if you have statistics to back that up or something? Anything? I appreciate that you have respect for others though.
니로다 가미니 파띠바다 아리야사까 드까 That's a gender stereotype... or genital stereotype, I suppose. It's not penis means assault. That's just not how the world works, or how genitals work. It's so much more complex and you are dumbing it down to exclude trans women for no good reason.
I compliment how rational you are but to me, gender and sex are synonyms and there is a spectrum of masculine and feminine attributes but that doesn’t affect your gender or sex
When you get older you'll realize that trans-age feelings are something that the majority of people feel to at least some mild degree. Many 50 year olds you will meet will tell you that they still "feel" 40, and they mean it in the most straight forward way. It is a simple truth for them - how they feel inside does not match their drivers license. But the reality is that they are a 50 year old. Should they be able to require other people to acknowledge they are "actually" 40 now, because that is how they feel? Should they, for example, get cheaper life insurance because their internal age-identity is 40 and not 50? Of course not, and that is the root of Shapiro's argument, and it's an interesting one. A subjective truth is not the same as an objective truth.
First of all respect is the minimum that you can have for someone else that hasn’t done anything to you. I will call someone woman if the person is able to procreate. Please nothing to do with infertility. Things are the way they are because that’s nature, not that I am creating something to help someone. You are lying to yourself
I'm a fan of Shapiro's use of logic and reason and his strong sense of fairness, though I completely disagree with his stance on many issues. It's so great you made this video responding to his comments on transgenderism! Those comments have struck me as his least well-thought out and least well-informed. It's truly brave of you to take on his arguments, especially as it's such an emotional topic for you. Thank you for doing this! I don't know very much about transgenderism but I think every adult should be able to live their life as they see fit, as long as they aren't harming anyone. I think speaking calmly and logically on the topic, as you have, goes a long way towards normalizing the topic. Go get 'em, man!
I respect this person’s calm demeanor and lack of insults to those who disagree with them, it’s a rational debate tactic the far left should use. Trans people have gender dysphoria. Period. Just because you like to play in the mud or have all guy friends doesn’t mean you can suddenly reassign yourself a new gender, it just means you aren’t the typical person if that gender. You know why men who play with dolls and want to be feminine get made fun of? Because there is already a sex that does that, they are called women. Evolutionary biology does not work with men and women being the same or interchangeable. If this persons argument that you can just change the abstract concept of gender, why don’t kids see their single mothers as dads and moms? Sure the mom may take in the primary breadwinner position but that’s economical because spoiler alert: WOMEN ARE THE NAURAL CAREGIVERS. If they could just project a male gender, kids from single mother. Households shouldn’t be committing abnormally high rates of crime, dropping out of school or suffering from depression,compared to kids from 2 opposite biological gender paren households. The human race has only survived because we have given each biological gender a role and while those roles can fluctuate, and they should to some degree, kids still need the biological consistency that has gotten humans through the past thousands of years, way before all this BS became mainstream. People with gender dysphoria need help, not because they are less human than regular people or need to be treated like animals, but because they believe they can cheat biology because they feel a certain way. The trans movement has spurred directly from the feminist movement, feminists wants all differences erased between men and women, foolishly not realizing men and women are supposed to be different in a lot of ways to fit together like a puzzle, one may have a piece that compliments their partner but they still retain mostly a new piece to complete the puzzle of child raising.
You don't actually disagree with Shapiro on much. 1) You agree sex and gender are the same 99% of the time 2) You agree trans people are not literally the opposite sex. The only reason trans ageism isn't taken seriously is because there is no medical diagnosis (as far as I know). If that changed, their argument would be very similar to that of trans people.
I believe that there is no illness that deserves ridicule but if that's your opinion alright. Then it's my opinion that in your socialization something went terribly wrong probably. Also, how do you define mental illness in this case? What are the symptoms of a mental illness called "trans-race", what are the psychological mechanisms behind it? Don't get me wrong, I think that the concept of transrace is deeply racist but it's also my opinion that you should better reflect on your opinions.
You're actually pretty funny, I didn't realize this until now. What I meant by "reflecting on your opinions" was that you should probably substantiate them with, like, arguments. And if you come to the conclusion that you don't have any of these mystique creastures called arguments (like only just): arguing is not an end in itself. And you can get better if you just try hard enough, believe me. Just take a minute, breathe, think, think a bit longer, and then... wait, actually, you should think a bit-bit longerer after this, and THEN you can write your answer. I'm sure you can do this. I forgot: Why do I think transrace is racist but transgender isn't sexist? Well, when you think you can be mentally another "race" than you are "born with" (I'm sorry if I offend any people identifying as transrace; I don't know the political correct terms for this) than you appear to believe that there is some "thing" in everyone's mind that defines what "race" we are - so you believe that it's part of our identity. And this is exactly what I believe to be racist about this transrace concept. There is no "thing" in our mind that defines what "race" we are because there are no races; there are only people. Yes there are some tinytinytiny differences in our genes that influence how our skin or our eyes look but apart from that there is no difference in our brains. People believing that there IS a difference between the so-called "races" are - in my opinion - the root of the problem we have with racism today because if you tie someone's looks (based on their ethnical background) to something about their identity, then that's my definition of racism. Race is a social construct. We do have gendered brains, though, and it's a theory that transgender people are transgender because their brains are mapped like a brain of the opposite sex. (I don't know how it works for non-binary people but I do think that there's much research to be done on this topic. And I do think that everyone should be respected as the people they say they are) You could now argue that it's only a theory that trans people have a brain that's mapped differently or that gender may be a social construct, too. The truth is: I don't know and nobody can.
Here is my question. What is wrong with being a masculine woman or a feminine guy? There is a woman at my AA meetings who is very masculine (she's a plumber) If she were born today she'd be a transgender.....instead she's just herself. I keep questioning why I have to be happy with my nose, my body type, my lack or lack there of testosterone, yet you and other "transgenders" have to go through such extreme motions. What is the difference between a transgender and the woman who has butchered herself to be a dragon? How about that guy who is now a alien due to extreme plastic surgery? You say Tomboy like it's such a bad thing. When I was growing up that wasn't some deeply soul crushing insult the way you make it sound. Being a tomboy is so horrible you need to undergo hormones and surgery? Geez I better go get a nose job with that thinking OR learn to except myself for who i am.
Jesse Bach tomboy isn't a bad thing, but for some people it's just not accurate. You can do stereotypically masculine things and still identify as your birth sex. I don't feel comfortable with female embodiment, which is separate from whether or not I'm "masculine or feminine. I think I'm both. Most people are to some extent. But I'm definitely not a girl.
I understand your not feeling like a girl. What I question is all the countless "2 souled" people in native American culture (various cultures) around the world that found ways to live in their own skin without modern science. I recently was listening to "History on fire" about Crazy Horse and the Lakota people. They had a woman who was considered masculine by their standards. She was a warrior and spent her time with men though she obviously didn't have hormones or surgery. The thing is that transgendered people very rarely can actually pass for the opposite sex which just creates another set of problems/perceptions to deal with. It would seem to me to be better to just learn to love yourself for your body you were given. I guess in the most extreme cases, sure do what you got to do and transition, but it seems far too common now. Camilia Paglia has talked about how if she were born today she would be considered trans. That saddens me because she's just a butch woman. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm a right-wing conservative, I love Ben Shapiro, I normally abhor the vast majority of the left, and I disagree with a lot of what she/he said, but I completely respect her/him for being rational, reasonable, calm, and for showing that she/he cares about the topic and doing research, which is something most liberals/lefties fail to do. It is very clear to me that she/he truly cares about this issue and it is also clear that she/he is not virtue signalling like most liberals/lefties do. I think that this is the type of person the left needs to have more of instead of the raging mentally inflicted SJW's.
I disagree with a lot of the things you said but I just want to say thank you so much for being respectful and nice because many leftists and liberals are extremely hateful towards people like me. I get bullied a lot at my school for expressing my conservative view points, so it's comforting to see leftists who aren't hateful like you.
I have really enjoyed watching your videos. It's cool that you watch and listen to Jordan Peterson and Shapiro. I've been trying to do the same with people like you and other reasonable people I would maybe disagree with on these types of topics. Keep doing what you're doing :)
I used to be a Shapiro fan. Dave Rubin, JBP and Gad Saad too. Jesus those were dark days. I hope by now you've caught on to Shapiro's shtick of deliberately equating gender and biological sex and using his argument regarding them as a basis for not voting Democrat. The absurdity of it. He's a con artist who just speaks fast with an attitude.
@RIP Joergen at first I loved him because I would consider myself a classical liberal or libertarian, as he does, and he kept saying he was trying to start a conversation and bridge both sides of the political spectrum. I liked that. It quickly became apparent that he used every opportunity to bash the worst parts of the left but ignore the worst parts of the right. He gets absolute morons or cretins on from the right (Candice Owens, Stefan Molyneux, Jeanine Pirro) and chimes in with them on blaming everything on the left, but on the left he gets on people that would be considered left-lite, or very close to centre. That's not how you bridge the gap. There are about seven other things that annoy be about him but I'm on the way to a music festival so I haven't time now!
Your civil war example doesn't debunk what Ben said. Ben (and other conservatives) didn't deny that people can get gender dysphoria regardless of media influence but that media/cultural influence does currently have an effect on "gender confused" individuals and may convince them that they have gender dysphoria when they don't. Not denying that gender dysphoria exists but some may incorrectly believe they have it, especially young and confused kids.
I liked how level headed you are. I didn't get convinced that trans aged is different than trans gender however. While gender does have some elements that are purely social, it also has elements that are biological. Certainly there is a lot we don't know about this issue. Thanks for your video.
The age argument just makes clear that gender is directly linked to your biology and that's just not up for debate. A better comparison would be body integrity identity disorder, psychological disorders are simply not "cured" by putting oil into the fire, if you will. And that is simply what gender dysphoria is, a psychological disorder that needs treatment not nurturing...
i dont usually get shooketh by these types of videos, but one thing that just couldnt sit right with me is how you were approaching the way Ben Shapiro said his words. When Ben Shapiro said "why arent you 60", i believe, he wasnt saying it in a mental way, he was stating it in a factual way, let me explain. Just because someone who is 11 acts 70, doesnt mean they are 70 and vise versa, this is the mental state of claiming "trans-age" (i honestly hate that word) or someone who acts the age subconsciously, but what i think Ben Shapiro made pretty clear is that he was suggesting to the factual side, as in, for example, just because someone SAYS theyre 70, doesnt make them 70, as in anyone who claims it, nothing to do with their mental state. His point didnt have to do with the fact that people feel uncomfortable in their own skin (i personally believe anyone can dress/act/interact in anyway they want, as long as it doesnt include me), his point was that just because someone claims they are a "women" or a "man" doesnt mean they are actually that, both factually and scientifically, and how they shouldnt expect everyone else to suggest to them in that sex, this is why he used the factual side of the "trans-aged" topic. Just because someone says they are 60 , 70 , or even 6, doesnt mean they are actually that age, because age (just like sex) is something fixed biologically and cannot be changed by simple will. So, similarly, his point is that just because someone who is biologically a man says to be called a women, that doesnt give them the facts to call them a women just because they want to be called a women. They (trans people) shouldnt force their ideals into peoples throats just to suit their needs. I see many points you made and they were made well, but the topic you chose to tackle was simply the wrong one. And just to clarify once more, i am not against trans people, honestly i just dont care, i hope them the best in finding who they are, but just do it bothering those who arent bothering you is all im saying.
Why go through the trouble of calling someone who clearly looks like a she, behaves like a she and is named like a she a he once you find out that they were born male? Like, what is the point? What is it that is so bad about making the life of someone who's going through a lot of trouble that you can't even understand, a little more bearable? If an old lady drops her groceries right in front of you do you also just ignore and walk right past her because "no one should be obligated to be nice if they don't want to"? Do you skip on giving tips to your bartender? What's with this insistence on being a bad human being to people who are contributing to society just as much as you are?
@@AlquimistEd because if I get a Honda, put Ferrari wheels on it, engine, paint it red, interior, I really hope you wouldn't expect me to call it a Ferrari. In fact let's go many steps closer, I'm gonna build a replica that looks IDENTICAL in everyway to the original. It's still not a Ferrari.
@@dlg78 A replica of a ferrari doesn't have mental health issues that get worsened by continuously being outcast by others and being made fun of for the fact it isn't a real ferrari, to the point it drives it into suicide.
@@dlg78 well, what type of mental health help would that be, O wise one? Because from what I know, transition is the only option that actually works. But hey, if you got a better option, do tell!
Hey Ollie, I'm personally a big Ben Shapiro fan, but I've been watching your videos for a while as well. I just want to lead off with telling you that I respect your work and the fact that you generally try to take a step back and look at things objectively. I watch your stuff because, in all honesty, transgenderism confuses me, especially when many of the advocates also fight for otherkin as well. Personally I understand a person wanting to change their sex, but changing only gender I find odd, especially as it is mostly a case of external perception. Something that the person in question has little control over at the best of times. I grew up both abroad and in rural parts of America, I actually had a friend named Jo(as in Joanne) growing up that I adore to this day. She was definitely a Tomboy and I don't remember anyone looking down on her for her ways, she was just one of the guys. But I also wouldn't have called her transgender, because she had no interest in being perceived as a man. I guess what I'm getting at is, she liked guy things, so she did them. It didn't matter what people thought of her. I personally thought that was a pretty healthy way to live her life. On the other hand, it feels like transgender is similar, but to a greater degree, and what tends to concern me is that it seems to be primarily externally focused. Would you consider Jo to be transgender, just because of how she portrayed herself? Also, would you consider my observations about transgenderism to be primarily focused on external perceptions to be correct? If you have a moment to answer I would definitely appreciate it. Keep up the good work and stay beautiful.
Hey, I’m a cis woman who some would call Tom boy-ish or androgynous! It’s more of a way of self expression. I can’t speak for your friend, but I’d say some of us like pushing the gender norms but still feel comfortable in our bodies and don’t experience dysphoria. I want to add that gender (not sex) in the end, is basically just means of self identification. I’m also sorta confused by people using “zer, zed, fae “ .. ya know, made up stuff, but I think it’s important to give them a change to figure out how they fit into this binary we have. I think you would really benefit from talking with a trans or non-binary person as it will help you to understand better.
I have no problem with transgenders, it's your choice and right to live your life! I do have a problem with parents forcing or encouraging it. Many liberals find having a trans kid fashionable these day's. I'm an ex-Military single parent.daughter. My daughter being raised by a military dad and 2 older brothers made her Tomboyish? As she grew older the more feminine she became. She still likes video games and shooting guns but now has begun wearing make-up and liking boys. My point is childhood is confusing enough without parents encouraging them to be trans. You see all these these celebrities & You Tubers with trans kids and the first thing that comes to mind is child abuse. I just feel it's being overly encouraged when it shouldn't. Being feminine or a Tomboy doesn't mean trans in most cases.
I am having difficulty imagining the hypothetical because even though I am a guy, "kind of" I dont really know what it means to feel like a guy vs a woman. If that makes sense? Hey I want to be 3 right now, toddlers have it made in the shade.
Quacks Dashing This is something I have wondered too. It is hard to ask that question since it is usually seen as argument against transgenderism, which is not what I mean by it. I have never felt strongly about my sex, I know how being strait feels like. I don't mind being a guy, but the thought experiment doesn't make me feel I would mind. I 100% agree gender dysphoria is real thing, I just think I'm missing something others feel. I think there is two possible solutions, either I would actually feel dysphoria if I suddenly changed to a woman and just cannot imagine it or that some of the population just happen to be indifferent about their sex. My gut feeling is that the latter is true, if not for me, then for some portion of the population.
Laze I wonder if its as simple as liking things more associated with masculinity or if its more than that... I mean, I always liked GI Joe, but I also enjoyed Golden Girls.
Idea about what gender you should be is most likely hard coded in the brain. It is possible that some part of the population lack the coding or the coding isn't very strong. I heard there is some evidence about this but nothing very solid or conclusive.
"Gender is an abstract concept. It just IS." Oh, well then, ok, I guess we're done here.This person has expressed an opinion, and that's the end of it. Thanks everyone for coming.
Ok, I hear you. If you feel more comfortable living as a man, have at it. Best wishes. I'm really not sure why appearance matters so much. If I choose to grow my hair long and wear a skirt, am I a transgender women, or a hippie in a kilt? If appearance doesn't matter, then what's left? Being bold? Being intrepid? Nothing stops either sex from exhibiting these traits.
You sir are brilliant. Community college? You should be teaching at an ivy league university. I'm a huge fan of Ben Shapiro and I agree with about 99% of what he says on most topics. You have successfully opened my eyes to a new perspective on this subject... this hasn't swayed me completely, but I'm now on the fence about it needing more clarification from both sides before I can solidify my own opinion on the matter. No small feat on your part considering my age. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Actually age is pretty interesting when you think about it, because we all age differently, but we count our age based on how many times we've revolved around the sun. But biologically speaking, some of us age much faster than others and some of us much slower. That's why some of us look like we're 18 at 35, but others look like 40 at age 25. Age is an individual process, but the way we measure it is based on something abstract and unrelated to our biological aging process - so far we don't have another better measure of age though.
Honestly I think that gender is bound to your sex. BUT. and that's a big but. That doesn't mean that that there aren't going to be people who are going to have mental disorders (and i'm using that as a strictly medical/scientific term, and not to belittle anybody) with which they are born, which i would say being intersex is. That is also not to say that they should have any less rights or be treated unequally in any way, that is not my problem. My problem is that then, when teachers and the public try to tell my kids that they are boys when they are girls and girls when they are boys. And if you think i'm being ridiculous, this is exactly what happened to my nephew who lives in Germany. He is more effeminate than other guys, and the teacher (He is in Kindergarten or 1st grade if I remember right) tried to tell him that he might be transgender and gave him all sorts of talks about it until my uncle figured out about it and gave em hell. This is absolutely unacceptable. You can make kids think anything if you tell them often enough, which can ruin their childhood. I think we should briefly but precisely tell children that those people exist and that they are OK, so that IF a kid feels that that way growing up (and from what i heard from trans people, it's quite obvious, even from a young age) they know it's OK, but not as much as to make children who are a little bit different than other children think that that's them, because that can and will have devastating effects on them. I think that this is all even more supported ,and should give us a HUUUUGE caution sign, by the fact (which you brought up) that up 20% of people want to have gender reversal surgery EVEN as not every person who might be trans is trans because of social stigmas AND even as not every person who identifies as trans is getting surgery. This just goes to show how extremely careful we should be with these sorts of things, ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN. So there's that. If you have any questions. I tried to be as clear as possible but if something isn't crystal clear, do ask. and if you disagree, do argue.
I respect you. A lot. I’m a huge Peterson and Shapiro fan and you have possibly made the best argument for your community which is honestly sad. There needs to be more individuals like you coming up with these arguments, backing it up with evidence, and reviewing it with effective and relevant analysis. No disrespect but on paper, there aren’t seemingly THAT many transgender people doing that. Have a good day! :)
"Gender is not something you can change from day to day" People who claim to be genderfluid would call your actions a hate crime for not agreeing, and you calling Ben Shapiro someone who is guilty of a hate crime is not appealing, it's just an ad hominem that is powerful because you can combine the words "hate" and "crime", both of these words are way more incriminating and vile than what you consider when you put the two words together to make a compound word. Noone is denying your humanity. A lot of people will find you super interesting for being unique. Some people will hate you for being unique but I'm me (white cis straight male) and people still hate me for no reason other than that they are ignorant and I say fuck those people, I only care about the positive, the rest is rubbish and irrelevant. The trans community seems wildy sad and oppressed when they probably are received by some as a super cool and unique person when I am seen as bland by almost all because of my identity and ridiculed by the left because of something I can't control. The days of calling people a bigot needs to come to an end.
The only thing that will convince me about transgenderism is if there's definitive biological evidence for it. "Identify as" as an argument means nothing to me. To feel like you’re someone else than your biological sex is not a factual argument of a biological condition. If 99% of people identify with their biological sex, that's a better argument for biological sex & gender being the same, than if 1% doesn't. Your argument against trans age was unconvincing, the argument being “trans age is not a real thing, therefore it’s a joke” and you explain that those who might feel younger suffer from biological conditions or mental disorders. You say that it doesn’t help them to portray themselves as 5 year olds if they’re not, yet you don’t give the same argument about gender. I’d also like to see you and the rest of the trans activists take on the concept of being transracial. That’s far more uncomfortable to discuss. Also, there’s little evidence to suggest transitioning does help. Suicide rates are still high post transition.
Well, according to this study, overall suicide attempts are at it’s highest among young people 18 - 24, and at it’s lowest among 45 - 65++ year olds. williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf I doubt post transition changes those stats particularly. I'm no scientist, but if you're telling me that the biological evidence for transgenderism isn't in yet, how can you make the claim that being transgender is a legitimate condition while transracial isn't? In these days it’s enough to feel like you're someone else. You can be gender fluid and have an infinite number of gender identities. Fuck, you can even be trans species and expect to be taken seriously. And by the way, if there's one thing that jives with your genitalia, its chromosomes; it's the genome that determines your actual gender. And by the way number 2: transitioning IS EXTREME. Gender surgery is extreme. Injecting chemicals into your body that your body constantly tries to reject is extreme. The fact that your body, through your brain, is constantly trying to reverse the process of transitioning is, if anything, more proof that gender and genitalia is inevitably linked.
Dont worry about your iq. It tells you very little about someones actual intellect. I, for example, was tested several times and came out with different levels within the same same range, 150-168. My grandmother was in Mensa and asked me if i wanted to join. Because i loved my grandmother, i said yes. I went to one of their meetings, and, while this was suppose to be a group of "intellegent" people, there was a LOT of stupidity. The amount of logical fallacies and ignorance i witnessed was ridiculous. Additionally, people kept bringing up their iq in their arguments as if that were relevent to their opinion. It is all just another way to self aggrandize and further one's ego. Some of the smartest people i have met have low iqs. It doesnt seem to be any kind of reliable way to determine intellegence. I hope this was helpful. Good day. -CJ
Ollie, I'm right wing and contrary to the assertions of the left we WANT to understand....we want the other side to engage with us because there is a good chance that on some aspects we may be wrong....but the left is just idiotic...just saying....your argument made sense, it was coherent and logical...even explained how "feels" plays a part alongside "reals"....I feel like I have a better understanding of the issue....you did good man....we need to get you out there to explain the crazy ass shit the majority of libtards scream at us during their emotional spurg fests....help them Ollie One, you're their only hope 😋
Dude, I will never knock a person for trying, so good on your for takin steps and all! Buuut, you gotta step forward as well. Whether it’s contempt for Marxism or an undying faith in the Free Market, you can’t come to the table with a gun, then act surprised when anyone else shows up packing. I can go through and over analyze but it’s all the same shit - a lot of me dehumanizing you down to some dumb key words, then judging you based on dumb words. Please. Tear my dumb normie ass apart
+totes jokin ok, firstly I will not be tearing your normie ass up...that's just gay 😜....secondly, if I do raise my voice it is immediately shut down because I don't have the credentials being any of the supposed oppressed groups and even if I were a transgendered, African albino midget with a missing leg it wouldn't matter if I were not saying what you want to hear....case and point is this courageous young man prompting this discussion....care to ask him the vitriol he was met with for straying off the mandated path for his group? (Very bigoted btw...just saying).....thirdly, your side is making the claims that go against established science and reason....if you believe that we have gotten it wrong then the onus is on you to substantiate your claims not on us....you point to a fish and call it an elephant then when the right points out the obvious, rather than substantiate your assertion you simply declare it is so because you feel it and the questioner is a *insert "ist" word*
+雨Jacob 雨 because you use conservative and nazi interchangeably as well...as the saying goes "what's good for the goose is good for the pansexual, Demi queer, transgendered gander"....I updated it to modern day language.....left and liberal are like time and space, both intertwined and make up the fabric of leftist world view....
+Jon Rosen I'm not sure what you are saying as your text is all broken up but from what I did understand you are saying that gender roles are a social construct...that is where the error lies....it is in part a construct but it is mostly a biological one....evolution driven...if we remove biology from the mix then yes, certain aspects are purely societally driven but society can collapse and biology will still rule...thanks to ollie's well articulated and calm arguments I can see that things are not as black and white as I had thought...I see that self identity also plays a role and deserves recognition...where I depart from the left is in the attempt to force me to conform to the self identity of a person....if I don't want to use your made up pronouns that makes me an asshole....not a criminal that is to be punished by the state....
I’m flattered that you think I have a “side” in this, but It feels unearned considering Im just a godless cherry picker. I think a dick has a boy attached to it, and the other one has the other one. But I don’t think a boy asking me to call him a girl is an attack or challenge to my morality. At the same time, you can’t ask someone for a favor (is it not a favor?) and when they refuse, you punish them. That’s fucking crazy, and everyone knows it. But alas, both sides think they are defending people. And you are. But I do NOT understand the refusal to consider it some combo of mental health disorders. WTF? Yeah, I’m sure it’s totally not the sponge computers that have everything to do with everything about human beings. Yikes. But yeah, I don’t know. I’ll call you whatever you want, girl, anytime. But you can’t decribe nightmare fuel gender dysphoria, and follow it with “but I’m fine now, IM SURE THAT WONT EVER HAPPEN AGAIN”. Every one should have a “before suicide, let’s try to find happiness” list, and “CUT YOUR DICK OFF” should be veeery far down the line.. Definitely there, though.
i discussed the transgender label with my psychiatrist recently asking him about why the APA decided to unlabel it as a mental illness. He told me that it was largely fear of lawsuits from lgbt advocacy groups that caused them to vote on it. So not only was it a politically motivated decision, it was also a vote which anyone with an iq higher than 60 knows is not a way to conduct medicine. Secondly the definition of delusion is believing a firmly held conviction that is contadicted by obvious logic or a general consensus accepted as fact. Since you are biologically a woman who thinks you are a man, or identifies as a man, then yes that is by definition a delusion. no different than cotard's syndrome or lycanthropy. what needs to be done instead of removing certain disorders from the DASM is to as a society stop stigmatizing mental illness. Trans age identities are illegal if you try to gain certain privileges associated with an age. i know. i tried to get a senior discount at Denny's by saying i identified as 60. they said no. it is called age fabrication. So why should gender be any different?
It's not a bad video at all, but I believe Ben Shapiro's stance on transgenderism makes a lot more sense than yours. Your example @6:24 is so overly-hypothetical it is easy to counter it. It still doesn't change anyone's sex. Shapiro admits that he doesn't know what can help assist Trans with their illness but that doesn't mean we go along with what they have been brought up to believe. If they choose to live as a male or female then that's great but they should not feel like the rest of the world should treat them as the sex their mother or father treated them as. That's the fault of their parents and those around them. But nothing but respect for this video.
There has been transgender studies since at least the 80's. John Hopkins did alot until it found that transgender surgery did not help with the psychological issues. Most were no more happier and the suicide rate did not change. The studies you referred to about brain matter difference were after people were on hormone replacement. The hormones change the brain because they are poison when used the way transgenders use them.
Update: I was wrong about everything. This was just me desperately trying to hold the logic of transgenderism together for the sake of my identity. It didn’t work. I think deep down I always knew that it wouldn’t. I’m now detransitioned.
So happy for you!!!! 👏👏👏
Girl, why did you feel the need to try and discredit trans people
@@nooneanonymous3340 because transgenderism makes no sense and it’s mentally insane
@@Error-dq9wf bestie deleted their comment
I’m sorry you felt like you had to detransition. I hope you are genuinely at peace and not trying to be someone you’re not to please others x
One of the better arguments for transgenderism that I've encountered. I am a Ben Shapiro fan but you did a good job of critiquing him. And you did it without insulting anyone. Something both sides fail at quite regularly.
Rachel L Ben Shapiro doesn’t really insult he’s just cold towards people who oppose him. He doesn’t give a single fuck about feelings. He doesn’t purposely attack people to make them feel bad he just states facts and studies in a fashion that angers people.
I would recommend checking out c0nc0rdance's videos on the topic. They're super well-researched and scientifically informed
@@greenpigking6974 He ONLY care about feelings.
@EchoSeeker #1 Ben say's "facts don't care about your feelings" while for the most part putting feelings over facts.
@@greenpigking6974 what everyone is tip toeing around is he is a dick or an asshole. He is and that is his only downfall. But I think that is the balance of thr world. Image he was very soothing to the ear and compassionate while making the same logical points! He would rule the world.
Props to you for being respectful and acting as an intellectual while discussing and debating this topic unlike many people now a days
"Now a days"? Really?
Absolutely... This person is very great person to debate with.
I second that: Props to you.
Conservative here, loved this video. Thank you for making actual arguments. I'd dare say this is the first good argument for transgenderism I've seen.
I take it you’ve never heard of Blaire White. She’s a transgender youtuber and she does an amazing job explaining these issues.
Blaire is a babe
Youssef Bakr Ollie is just a filthy animal
Youssef Bakr Wrong. I'm the bi product of what's wrong with society.
Youssef Bakr how exactly do the arguments not make sense?
I like how there are some conservatives in the comments but there’s no arguing at all, no toxicity :)
Conservative who watched to see both sides of the argument. Pretty satisfied. Keep doing what your doing.
I wish all conservatives were actually smart like you
Gunnar Svensson what?
@@subbot4417 i had a comment but I assume the channel owner doesn't allow me to post it
Sam intheWasteland same here. I like when both sides come together and just share their ideas
I know this comment is a year old but what do you think about transgender people and gender dysphoria? Just curious
I'm a fan of Ben, but I hate the click bait titles like, "Ben Destroys Crazy Radical Feminazi" or "Ben Roasts Idiot Libtard." For me, it kinda makes me not want to click on the videos because the titles are so subjective.
I know right? and 99.9% of the time when you watch it.. it was hardly a "Destroy" or "Idiot got roasted".
it ends up being a simple question and Ben just answers it...
TheTwixtr It also is a misunderstanding of the radical feminist stance on transgender issues. Radical feminists would largely agree with Ben's views.
thank you! and they always have to have the all caps verb even if it's not an exciting verb. "Ben Shapiro RESPONDS to Idiot Liberals" "Ben Shapiro ANSWERS a Question at a Q&A Session" "Ben Shapiro BREATHES in a Liberal College"
To his credit, he's not the ones making those videos.
He’s not the one titling nor uploading them
Well done. This is how a response ought to be made.
Jeez, I’m gonna be that jerk, I guess. Watch it again, let all that good, happy energy pass, then try to remember one argument he presented Ben. He says a lot of very agreeable things that seem like arguments, but I dunno.. The kid legit warms this grow ass mans cold republican heart, but isn’t it a bit of a stretch to call this a good “response” video?
I’m a very, very conservative person when it comes to politics and today’s issues. But he made a very good argument 👏🏻👏🏻. The best I’ve every heard on gender identity/gender roles. :)
Molly McGill b
Molly McGill Really? I would’ve thought you were quite the radical given that epic photo of the Empire State Building 😃.
Why can't debates be like this anymore? Mad respect from a conservative.
I'm just going to say this right now: you don't need to have a degree from Harvard to be intelligent!
Obviously?
Will Bourner V There are some pretty ignorant people from prestigious schools. That’s not to say they’re dumb, but I’m sure the Dunning-Krueger effect can kick in.
@Duded Duded well, all he said was that you don't need to specifically have a degree from Harvard to be considered an intelligent individual. People that graduated in Oxford, for example, could be considered smart, according to what he said. So I think it's a fairly rational, obvious and unbiased statement.
Man, you really are such a respectable person. Not everyone can make a solid argument against Ben Shapiro, and even fewer seem to hear him out and think about it. I'll be one of the first right-wing losers to say that I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro. I disagree with him for different reasons than you, but you are very good at holding your own opinion, and that's pretty fucking respectable, so props to you, man.
Meme Machine 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
What do you disagree with him on outta curiosity?
Sarban I wish Ben Shapiro would be more polite, I guess. Polite isn't the right word. I guess I wish he had more respect for the other side. In some cases, it's more than understandable (when the room has just filled with screaming SJWs who want to stop people just because they don't like what they're hearing). I think he should be more direct in answering questions because on more than one occasion, he more or less dodges a question or answers in a way that doesn't answer the person's question. Now, normally, I'd say that this doesn't really matter because everyone misses questions sometimes and everyone is bound to not know the answer to something, especially questions that are biased on the opinion opposite yours. This is a problem for me because he uses that same behavior (dodging questions/answering questions with more questions) as "proof" that the person is wrong, which is especially aggravating when it is to the people who were calmly and politely asking questions to him, he dodges a question and asks them one instead, and that person is unable to answer. Nobody likes when that happens to them. It's not a cool thing to do, and a solution is not going to come if you listen to only one side. Both sides need to compromise and find a middle path. (I'm more right-wing than Ollie, which means we're seeing different things from different points of view, which is more than okay. I like to listen to people I disagree with so I can have a more rounded opinion.) Hopefully this wasn't too scatter-brained and you're able to understand it.
Very few people are more respectful than Ben, just because he dismantles their arguments doesn't mean he's not being respectful. If someone tells me "Hey the earth is flat" and I'm thinking "Uh, it's round" then I prove it, and you have an issue because you feel I "disrespect that person", that's where "facts don't care about your feelings" comes in to play. I'd like to know, where did he ever ask a question that "dodges" someone else's question, i've never seen that other than in a place where his answer to his question would answer the very question they are asking, that is NOT dodging a question. If you had issues with Ben's "Global Warming" stance, i could respect that, but in terms of "he's rude", no, that's not true. Look at the groups he's offering to debate, honestly, if you think Ben's rude, I'm wondering what you think of the typical LBGTVLOLBBQ protestor, or worse, the Young Turks?
Roo H It's not that I disagree with him, and by disagreement, assume that he is rude because our views don't line up. My views don't line up one hundred percent with his, but it would be strange if they did. I just think that he could do less mocking of his audience who are asking questions. If someone asks him a question that is slanted in the way opposite of his (which is not always by people who necessarily are trying to knock him down off of his intellectual high ground, though I know there are plenty of people who do that), I think he could handle it in a much better way. Instead of immediately treating them like dumbasses (though I might agree that many of them are just that), he could try to explain things from their point of view. He's very intelligent, and I think that if he were to explain things to them with an eye on the metaphorical slant (for example, recognize that their language is biased to begin with, the tell them why their "evidence" has already been refuted through things he's said) he could have so much more of a positive impact. As for the people who come in and their entire purpose is to "stump Ben Shapiro" or whatever, I think they should be handled with an equal amount of respect. Just because they don't give well-deserved respect doesn't mean that everyone else should stoop so low as to do the same things they do.
Anyway, that's just my point of view. I don't mind you disagreeing with me by any means, and I understand what you are saying. I just believe that, if we want people to understand, we should be respectful, even when our opponents are not.
I think I, over all, agree with you that Ben Shapiro's attitude towards trans-people is a bit... off. I remember his interview with Blaire White, and his whole "I won't call trans-people their chosen gender!" thing felt very awkward when speaking to someone who passes as well as she does.
Even someone who doesn't pass perfectly can be seen to be trying to present as their ideal identity, enough so to not be confusing. The problem happens if someone is truly confusing in what they appear to be.
(P.S. You are not confusing, you look like a young man, so you are a young *man*.)
Im transphobic
onepiece2 2017 Cool, nobody cares. You’ll just be seen as an asshole your whole life, bye. ☺️
@@onepiece-gq4kp I'm with your bro this transgender thing is just ridiculous.
@@Whiteboy23956 ...but if you're with his bro you must be quite gay.
This isn’t accurate, if you really stay up with Ben then you would know that the only time he wouldn’t call you your gender to which you identify is when you are talking about that issue or having a debate about that issue. So I suggest that you do some research on it.
I'm a conservative Trump supporter and a huge Ben Schapiro fan and the video you were taking those quotes from is one of my favorites. I have always been on the fence about the transgender issues and I'm always looking for new ideas and new perspectives. This video has really opened my mind to the idea that gender is different than sex. The idea that I would be living the same life in the same room with the same pink bed sheets with my same female friends wanting to wear the same clothes and wear the same make up but have a penis instead of a vagina makes a lot of sense to me. I can't control what I like and don't like so how can a trans person control that either? That's the same as in the 1900s making gays have sex with their opposite gender. They can't control their sexual preferences. I just wanted to say thank you, your ideas are extremely thought-provoking and I'm really glad that I found this video. (I had to stop halfway through the video to write this comment because I feel so passionately about it)💕
Totally agree :) :)
But sexual preference isn’t the same as saying you’re a totally different gender tho
While I agree too an extent after looking through your profile i doubt it
if ur a boy that likes girl stuff it doesnt mean ur a girl it means ur a boy that likes girl stuff
yet gender comes from sex
As a far right conservative, you've genuinely changed my perspective on the matter of transgenderism. Really nice video and good luck with things.
ContraPoints would be right up your alley.
Due to the tremendous level of respect and humility that you brought to your presentation, I, a conservative Christian and Ben Shapiro fan, have subscribed to your channel. I cannot begin to describe to you how refreshing it is to see a liberal conduct his or her self with such dignity and intellectual honesty. It is also a relief to know that I can question your arguments without being thought of as a hateful person.
Here are some UA-cam channels that should make for a good place to venture outside of your echo chamber:
Roaming Millennial, The White Rose, Blair White (a fellow trans person), Lauren Southern, PragerU, WeAreChange, Psyche Matters, Bite-size Philosophy, Sam Harris, The Ruben Report (a classical liberal), Jason Allsup, etc. I think you will particularly be interested in Jordan B. Peterson. He is a professor of psychology that has very interesting lectures.
Also, www.STR.org is a great website for logical arguments in favor for Christianity.
Ollie has already done a video chat with Peterson - worth watching his video about it!
Classical liberals such as Ruben and the atheists such as Harris/Dawkins have fairly strong liberal viewership - that is the section of liberals who are ideologically individualistic rather than those who focus on collectivism. They are valuable voices of reason.
Freaking this. Also props to fellow republicans for being respectful in the comments. Love this atmosphere, screw this polarizing crap you guys, facts and level heads change more minds then violence every time.
雨Jacob 雨 holy Christ calm down
雨Jacob 雨 I ain't into that long tirade that is irrelevant to the OPs point: it's nice when people respectfully engage in intelligent conversation, regardless of disagreements. That's it. Nice and simple.
雨Jacob 雨 I can appreciate that. Honestly I probably won't read it but I also won't criticize you if you do so.
I appreciate many Shapiro arguments, but I must admit you presented an excellent rebuttal.
cheaze69 idk Ben Shapiro expresses his frustration towards the first point made about gender identity in one video. He says that it’s a delusion and a made up term to justify and classify the delusions of trans gender people. I think it definitely is a disorder and we still do need to change the way we address the issue. Supporting it doesn’t seem to help.
I love sensible trans people.
MelodyeW300 Most trans people are sensible it's just Tumblr Snowflakes that ruin it.
This is the most well constructed argument for transgender people I have heard so far. It is not entirely based on accusations and emotions.
I did not expect to like this video.
Thank you for the like.
Both Ben Shapiro and I have nothing against transgender people. Who do not support bullying, violence, or any kind of forceful methods to try and “fix” transgender people. We just oppose legislation that makes denying you your gender a hate crime or forcing every institution to build a third gender restroom.
This was a terrible video and she cannot argue at all, facts don't care about your feelings
@@gunnarsvensson2546 Are you sure?
A nice critique. You should see if Ben is doing any events near you in the near future, and see if you can take a thoughtful line of questioning to him during Q&A. I side with Ben on most issues, but agree that his 'why aren't you 60' response wasn't the best one.
You need some milk
It was enough to make his point clear.
Ahh, I really hope people see this and realize we can be on "opposite sides of the isle" and disagree without using shields and bats and yelling over each other. I'm loving this comment section, let's use facts to change minds, not fists. You're pretty brave, guy. Not even the bigger lefty channels test their luck with the Hebrew Hammer! Thanks for existing.
I wish I could upvote that again. As a conservative, I have had to tell my more progressive friends that we can disagree and still be friends. Unfortunately, most of THEM don't see it that way.
totes jokin lmao the 'Hebrew Hammer'
gerberho1 right there with ya, bud. Thanks for being here
니로다 가미니 파띠바다 아리야사까 드까 Yeeeah, wow you’re absolutley right lol, I let my enthusiasm go a bit overboard here. Thanks for being here, buddy
totes jokin it's a girl....
"I'm argumentative as hell!"
Can I get that on a T-shirt?
10/10 would love this
Yeeah make it happen ~
This was a great video, but just one correction: David Reimer was not born intersex. He actually just had a damaged penis from a botched circumcision.
> And David's suffering was thanks to... John Money
No no no, no no. Why does everyone dodge the elephant in the room? David's suffering was the fault of the DOCTOR WHO CIRCUMCISED HIM. He would have suffered, period. No one learns this from David Reimer's case: routine infant circumcision is evil.
Why do you fight feminism? What is so destructive about it? That it unfairly disadvantages men? What is circumcision then? Women are federally protected from genital cutting. There's no greater way that men are legally discriminated against. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/116
+Patrick Seiter Yes- I know circumcision in the US (and many other parts of the world) is extremely fucked up, and that there are no US statutes to protect men from genital mutilation, yet there is one for women, and that feminism isn't doing shit to help that situation. What's your point? I was simply correcting Ollie on his mistake and talking about how fucked up John Money was. Yes, what happened to David with the botched circumcision was completely unnecessary and fucked up, but what Ollie was talking about wouldn't have happened without Money.
Comic Book Guy
"Law And Order: Special Victims Unit" had an episode that was basically a revenge Fantasy on the twins behalf.
It's a pity his brother did not will his genitals to him for transplantation (he died in a car wreck, I think losing him was the last straw), as it would have taken easily in identical twins.
Patrick Seiter
I sometimes wonder if we were as petty as the Postmodernists that should boycott Kellogg's simply because of the quack who founded them. Anything good Dr. Kellogg accomplished was entirely by accident, like his cereal. His "Yogurt Enema" therapy DID have benefits, but none of them were based on his stated premises. Unbeknownst to him, they were entirely due to reintroducing probiotics to guts that were deficient!
Secular medicinal circumcision is, rarely, necessary for sever phimosis, like my dad had have in his twenties. Even if it runs in the family, however, it is hard to tell for sure if an individual has it until his penis is at least half his adult size, usually age 10-12. As with all medicine, a child should NEVER get more then what they absolutely need to stay healthy. As a legal adult of sound mind, they can do whatever they want.
I think most elderly people are a little trans-age. My grandma still felt like a young woman inside when she was in her 90s. I think the soul of her younger self always stayed with her.
Dunno where all these dislikes came from, pretty much everyone I've seen in the comments seem to agree that this was a good, well articulated video, and that includes fans of Ben Shapiro.
Because 4/7 of the people that watched this are liberals and like the comments they agree with, which pushes them to the top.
Change to newest first dude
@@jo0syjuice Oh, transphobia, cool. Thanks for subjecting me to that my man. That being said I can see that you yourself have commented on behalf of the Shapiro stan gang, so I'd like to ask you a simple question: have you ever considered that these people are mainly interested in being seen as their preferred gender purely as it applies to society? Chromosomes and genitalia are largely irreverent when you consider the fact that nobody is able to see the former, and unless they're in bed with said person, the latter as well. Fact remains that if you saw Ollie on the street with no context as to his history or background, your instinct would not tell you to refer to him with she/her pronouns. One last thing; seeing as you're seemingly so enraptured by dictionary definitions, here is the definition of gender as defined by the dictionary:
"either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."
@@gruetwo3424 First of all, not everyone that disagrees this video is transphobic, just like people that don't agree with you aren't racist or sexist. Just as much as the left in general is so upright about misgendering, they are quick to misjudge. It's interesting how you mention chromosomes are irrelevant. They are literally the genetic makeup of you, they determine what you, are. Just because somebody can't outright see them doesn't mean that they don't exist. It's a fact, as it "applies to society", men are DIFFERENT than women. Men naturally have a denser bone structure. Women naturally mature faster. They are different, and saying you are one or the other can't just be thrown around. Socially, things have impact. A great example of this is the Fallon Fox incident. Man for almost all of his life up until he decided to be a woman just to destroy women in boxing. "I say if you had a dick at one point in time, you also have all the bone structure that comes with having a dick. You have bigger hands, you have bigger shoulder joints. You're a f***ing man. That's a man, OK? You can't have... that's... I don't care if you don't have a dick any more..." - Joe Rogan. When you force me to call you, and perceive you what you biologically aren't, it's not that I'm depriving you of your humanity, it's just that, in the well spoken words of ben shapiro, facts don't care about your feelings.
@@jo0syjuice Wasn't so much referring to the people respectably disagreeing with the video (who were few and far between) as much as I was the people who weren't really making any argument in the first place and presumably just commented on the video to be edgy edgelords. Of course I wouldn't immediately assume that someone who say supports Trump for example is automatically racist or whatever, but if I then hear them go on about the bell curve or being a race realist etc. I'm gonna start raising a few eyebrows. I find it funny that Shapiro stans always immediately jump to Fallon Fox as their primary point of reference, when it's such an arbitrary scenario which hardly applies to the larger trans population as a whole. I take the fact that they can seemingly only argue against transgenderism as it applies to as niche an area as gendered sports as a sign that they really have no objection to them as applicable to the rest of society. What you fail to realize however, is that even within the field of gendered sports, biological differences are ultimately considered negligible when put up against differences in technique and body movement:
ua-cam.com/video/J-p-mxHMoEA/v-deo.html
Facts don't care about your feelings, and fact is biological male/female differences aren't nearly as major as you people make them out to be, and even the gendered differences which do exist are largely irrelevant outside of the relatively niche category of gendered sports. Fact is if you came across Fallon Fox, just randomly on the street or something with no background information as to her past, your instinct would not tell you that she is a man, that being because differences in biology tend to take a backseat in comparison to socially defined gender norms when determining what gender a given person is, and this is a point I've never seen any Shapiro stans sufficiently contend with.
Ben is a pretty intelligent guy...and I agree with a lot of what he says. But in the transgender and gay issue I think he is wrong. Where I appreciate him is he finishes of his thoughts with "welcome to america you do not have to care what I think"
Leonardo Caicedo well any business or religious institution should have the right to deny service to anyone because no one has a right to anyone’s service because if they did that would be called slavery. Would you force a Jewish bakery or synagogue to serve Nazis?
Leonardo Caicedo if it’s a public business then it is funded by the government. Btw Jim Crow was governmentally imposed discrimination people didn’t do it willingly. There were laws on the books forcing businesses to discriminate and if they didn’t they would be prosecuted. Discrimination is not profitable in the free market market because you lose out on your money. If a business denies me a service for being Native American it’s a lose lose scenario because they don’t get my money and I don’t get their product or service. Nobody wins. The free market offers a wide variety of services in which if one business discriminates then another won’t and will outcompete the discriminatory business thus forcing that business to not discriminate if they want to stay in business
No matter how high your intelligence is, humans are imperfect,and we shouldn't assume just because someone like ben is smart, that he's always right. this goes for whoever else is your role model.
Educational achievement doesn't necessarily equate to great intellect. Experience gained through doing things, trying things, discussing, debating and allowing yourself to always be open to something new are how you become more intellectual. Where Ben Shapiro falls short in this list is that he is no longer open to new thoughts. His opinions are very much set and when you begin to view your opinions as fact or superior in intellect to somebody else's you cripple your ability to gain further insight into the problems that matter to you.
I agree with you and I said in numerous other Ben Shapiro videos that he's way off the mark on gender/transgender issues and he needs to stick to politics. Ben Shapiro is the end result of someone who is on their high horse after making a name for himself and winning some debates then thinking he's king of the world and the authority on every topic and issue
Great argument! Well-thought and respectfull.
It's appalling to see so many dislikes under this video.
Ben Shapiro is right, gender is not something that changes. You have always been a guy, you just had to discover it.
Well shit, he's actually pro-trans 😂
@@ollieslovelyworld6330 lmao
I appreciate your effort, but nobody is trying to debunk transgender-ism. You are also wrong about the trans rights movement being about control by the leftists, it is being pushed as an agenda as the next civil rights. You are taking one or two particular cases individually and using the exception as a means to prove the rule.
In the US, the NHIS has released the stats saying that 0.3% of the population self identifies as trans. Which such an amazingly small percentage of people feeling this way, how is this the next civil rights movement?
I know a number of trans people, most of them just want to live their lives and not be put on display and not be held up as the poster children for the leftists always looking for a new cause to champion in order to keep themselves appearing to be relevant.
I think the main point you are missing from Ben is as you rightly pointed out he is NOT denying trans people their humanity. He is saying that the first time a child, note the word child might act as the opposite sex we should not rush out and put them on hormones. That is the last resort. The lefts are pushing this agenda instead of saying rightly so that it's child abuse.
As for people that transition, the suicide rate is statistically the same for people before and after their transition. So clearly all these people that are now being pushed into embracing their transness (I made that word up) are being sold a bill of goods.
Honestly I think you and Ben agree, I think you are just taking a few of his glib comments in a public debate and running with them. You yourself acknowledge there is a mental health side to things and that needs to be explored first.
Either way, I appreciate your efforts and your willingness to have an actual discussion instead of just shouting people down as nazis that don't agree with you.
Good luck and keep your mind open and your ears as well. I wish you all the best going forward.
Best comment
Because fricking laws have been passed about the pronoun issue and people went to jail for that, big enough for you?
i'm pretty far right and i really appreciate a lot of the points you made this video. many right wing and even centrist people just don't want to think too hard about gender identity controversies because they hope it'll just go away somehow, since so few trans people exist. but i think it's important to think about the nature of gender identity no matter what "side" you're on. especially considering that such a large portion of society seems to have an opinion on transgenderism. it's new. it's cool that you give a fuck about the truth, you're a cool person. i subscribed :-)
Progressive activism has completely hijacked epistemology through the dilution of words that previously had specific and technical meanings. Case in point: the way the words "male" and "female" are currently understood by a significant portion of the population. Previously, these were species agnostic designations of a bimodal population pattern based on anisogamy and the traits correlated with it. Reproductive anatomy that produces a specific type of gamete, a hormone profile, autosomal chromosomes and physical/behavioral dimorphism. This is an undeniable feature of the homosapiens species. But some time in the last century, the new designation of "gender" popped up. Gender is a linguistic designation, but was co-opted in technical literature to describe identity/behavioral bimodality aside from physical. The irony, of course, being that this bimodality was exceptionally correlated with the biological sex bimodality in human populations. So much so that the names for these "gender" designations were directly borrowed from the sex designations instead of fabricated de-novo. The gender names currently mirror the sex names because of this exceptional correlation. Yet this is where the breakdown is. Progressive activism operates as though the order of these terms came to be used is reversed, and is somehow prescriptive on top of that. In effect, that "biological sex" is a construct that follows from gender, and that it acts as a prescriptive mechanism to oppress people. In the activist's mind, gender has been completely unbounded from sex. Without grounding, "gender" as a concept came to unrestricted. Now "gender" is nothing more than a mood designation. There are 42, 73, 💯, a million, infinite genders, with new ones added every day. This nonsense wouldn't be so much of a problem if the original "male" and "female" weren't casualties to it, along with "biological sex." The very concept of sex is treated as an oppressive prescriptive construct and not the useful descriptive category that it actually is. The original gender designations just happened to use the same words as the sexes, so sex as a concept is being demonized to promote gender. Yet, again, irony of ironies, this only happened because gender was so exceptionally correlated with sex as to be self evidently synonymous. This situation leaves us in many pickles. Aside from the general breakdown of language and communication, it impacts medicine and health. A specific issue that we're seeing pop up is the conceptual understanding of related words such as "homosexuality" and "heterosexuality". These words used to indicate sexual attraction and behavior related to an individual's biological sex relative to the sex of their partner. However we now live in a world where gender has superceded sex, so now the words mean sexual desire/behavior related/relative to GENDER. This just confuses the issue, because people can experience sexual attraction and engage in sexual behavior agnostic of gender identity. Quite obviously, however, sexual attraction and behavior is almost exclusively focused on biological sex, in correlated anatomical features. This is why biological sex is an important and relevant distinction, separate from gender, in discussions of behavior and medicine. People like Riley Dennis and Zinnia Jones would have you believe that sexual attraction is based on gender alone, and not biological sex. This idea is, of course, quite frankly absurd to anyone with a basic scientific understanding of evolution and sexual selection theory. They deny the existence of exceptional, bimodal, species wide patterns in morphology due to a minority of outliers, and call this "science." Yet the consilient and robust framework of evolution that the entire enterprise of biological science rests upon is dismissed out of hand. In closing, the way that progressive activism is undermining the use of specific/technical definitions and language is a huge problem. At best it is causing a communication barrier that is preventing people from precisely and accurately conveying concepts information. At worst it is a symptom (maybe a self-perpetuating cause) of a growing cult of science denialism on the left, which is invading acedemia. Invoking Orwell tends to be outwrought these days, but it is important to remember how indispensable language is in the face of newspeak. Additionally, how important it is to protect the conventions and institutions that are tasked with elucidating and conveying basic truths. We're quickly sliding into a world of distorted language and corrupted acedemia designed to obscure and confuse for the purpose of activism. The same type of activism is what Jordan Peterson calls the Postmodernists. Now, more than ever, precise, clear, and accurate language, and rigorous, evidence based replicable science both need stern advocates.
Apart from the need for clearer paragraphs, I couldn't agree more with your comment
The science denialism on the left is no different from the religious science denialism on the right.
Well said!
How in the world could you know so much technical science and yet somehow miss paragraph day in elementary school?
雨Jacob 雨 so are you going to address the argument or does it being copy/pasted refute the argument? How can you claim they don't know any science without any reason yourself? Sounds like science denialism.
My thing is, how would a person born a man actually know what being a female feels like without trying to embrace gender stereotypes ? Not all girls act like girls and not all boys act like boys.
I'm impressed about how you make gender easier for even me to understand. I'm impressed by this video
"That hate was coming from me". That was great. I wish everyone had the same attitude as you, stopping blaming everything on everyone else.
Great fucking video man. It's so nice to have someone that isn't drenched in postmodernism representing our community on political issues. You're a brave guy, this video is sure to piss off people on both sides, but you speak the truth.
I watched the video you're talking about about a month ago, and I hadn't been able to answer the trans-age question. I think you did a fantastic job.
tl;dr i only love one man (you)
(and jordan peterson)
+dangerdonut
Ollie did not refute or answer the transage question!!
She misunderstood the relevance and purpose why Ben even made that argument!! it was NOT a great fucking video !! it was verbal diarrhea .
based on HER own bias and presuppositions
You have to resort to insults, and provide no reasoning. He didn't insult anyone, and used extensive reasoning. As a result, I believe him, and think less of you.
Yeah, Jordan Peterson is amazing
m p
Finally i see a decent comment in this cesspool of nothing burgers. you are exactly right. and the amount of "right winger" comments falling for this crap is very telling how both sides are ridden with emotionally malleable sheep.
니로다 가미니 파띠바다 아리야사까 드까
Yes, both sides have many malleable sheep. but the difference is that Republicans have a few malleable voters, but Democrats are composed ENTIRELY by ignorant, malleable sheep.
You're a gentleman and a scholar, and I wish you the best. I don't think I agree with your analysis of trans-agism (not sure what to call it). A 10 year old being upset that they can't be 3 years old anymore sounds to me like not wanting the responsibility that comes with age. In my experience (purely anecdotal evidence incoming), I've never seen anyone looked down upon for behaving "older" than they actually are. Maturity and the ability to handle responsibility are often viewed as good qualities, while childishness is often ridiculed. I've never heard of a toddler being told to "act their age" for example. I myself wish I could go back in time and be a kid again before needing to worry about bills and work, but I don't believe that means I suffer from age dysphoria. I think that just means I'm lazy and want a simpler life with fewer responsibilities.
I do agree with you however, that we don't know nearly enough about trans people's brains and more research needs to be done. There are very real biological differences that separate men and women, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch that one of those differences should be brain chemistry (please note that my degrees are in no way related to psychology, and I'm completely pulling this out of my ass). I think it's a safe starting point to think it's definitely possible that a boy could be born with the chemical makeup of a girl's brain, and vise versa. I believe you're absolutely right in that we need to see how this pans out before coming up with a standard practice for dealing with folks with gender dysphoria. If it's as simple as taking a pill that corrects a chemical imbalance, great. If it's more serious than that and would require complete reconstruction of a human brain to change it from a girl brain into a boy brain, then perhaps gender reassignment surgery would be better (and safer, I believe. Risk of brain damage is not a thing I like to think about).
All I know for certain is that however you chose to live your life is none of my fucking business and if I met you I would gladly have a drink with you, sir.
Uhm, that's why he said "age dysphoria" was not a thing? He was saying there were similar aspects with gender dysphoria and gave the example of him as a kid, but since there are clear cognitive functions that change constantly in your brain as you age, "age dysphoria" cannot be a thing, unlike gender dysphoria where parts of the brain that make up how a man's or woman's brain fundamentally is are affected.
@@AlquimistEd "age dysphoria was not a thing, but I have experienced it. And I know others who have experienced it" finish the quote idiot.
So, if a 12-year-old identifies as a 21-year-old, technically he or she could walk into any place in the United States that sells alcohol and purchase an alcoholic drink. Correct?
I can't tell if you are a boy or a girl, a male or a female, day or night... I give up with this world.
Gender and Sex isnt the same?
What the hell?
Anjali Donn I know this might be hard for you, but open your mind mah dude.
flown shmoe how about answer a question instead of condescension
if you google the definition for both of them there almost the same, they both say it's either a female and male but neither of them say you can change it.
It used to mean the same as sex, but somehow the trans community has taken it and given it a different meaning. Nowadays it's somewhat of a homonyme. I hoped that this cleared things up. Regards!
It still is in normalville
Good video. I'm not necessarily a fan of Ben. He says some stuff I can jive with, but at the end of the day, he's just a dude.
john l he doesn't speak like a very intelligent person. I had no idea.
My bad. David Reimer was not born intersex. His penis was burnt off due to a botched circumcision.
Vincent S Because suicide of a trans person is not something that can be equivocated so simply to trans=suicide. So many factors go into suicide that you're shoving under the rug for your own agenda. A suicide is much more than one issue, it's a lifetime of suffering or an incredibly sudden/acute amount of suffering that leads someone to do it. You can't pull statistics like that and act as if it's the end-all for why being LGBT+ is wrong when an LGBT+ person is so much more than their identity. Ollie is so much more than trans, I'm so much more than bisexual, and you're so much more than what you identify with. We're people, not a single statistic or math equation. Also, just as a side note, if you're going to play that stats card of "30% of suicides are LGBTQ" then that means *70% of all suicides are from straight and cis people*. Look at your stupid logic there...
EDIT: Also, sources for those numbers???
SoulEater Evans I believe she even said that she considered suicide so I don't think I swept anything under the rug. And the last claim you make, tell me first what percentage of people in America are straight and how many are gay....it's not hard. Give me a statistic of what percentage of straight people commit suicide in America like I gave you of how much LGBTQRSTUV members make up in America. It's irrational to compare an overwhelming majority of people to a small statistic of people and say that the overwhelming majority makes up for more of the suicide rates. I mean no shit they also make up for more of the living rates.
SoulEater Evans I think you misunderstand actually. When I said 30% it is in the LGBT community alone not all of americas population. That means of 100% of LGBTQRSTUV identifiers, 30% commit suicide. That is significantly higher than any other identifiable group
SoulEater Evans just look it up
www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide/
www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/8/11/12438678/cdc-report-queer-teens-health-risk-suicide
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093285/#!po=10.0000
SoulEater Evans, people often confuse these statistics, including Vincent S. The percentage refers to suicide attempts, not actual suicide, and the percentage is higher. I invite you to read one of the most comprehensive studies of attempted suicide in the transgender community. It was conducted a few years ago by the Williams Institute at UCLA in conjunction with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. The study was released in January 2014. Over 6,000 transgender people participated in the study. Among other things, they discovered that suicide attempts, not actual suicide, are upwards of 40%. That statistic does not change even if the person underwent reassignment surgery. It is also approximately 10 times higher than the overall attempted suicide rate in the United States. The percentage drops to 36% when the person is not identified by others as being transgender. There are many more interesting facts you can read about, but they all say the same thing: something is terribly wrong in the transgender community.
The problem is some people use dictionary definitions of a word. Merriam-webster 2a is :sex. Definition 2c is :gender identity. Saying gender is sex is still correct. Most people that say gender isnt what a trans person says it is are using the more common older term for gender. It is not wrong and not hate speech. There is a word for a female sex that identifies as male, it is female. That is the sex. If you want to express it further you can say you are a trans male. There is nothing wrong with that. A transmale is not a male. Males are vulnerable to things such as prostate cancer. A trans male does not have to worry with that. They do have to worry with things such as ovarian cancer, that males do not have to worry with.
Trans age does exist. Have you never seen women in their 50s or 60s that tries to dress like they are 20. (No, I am not being 100% serious)
I did enjoy the video, it is clear you have thought on this though.
"gender and "sex" meant the exact same thing (within male/female context of course) 20 years ago, until college liberals decided to arbitrarily change it. Seriously, look at a dictionary from the 1990s. "Gender" was a nicer word to use for people that didn't like to say the word "sex" when teaching kids about male/female differences.
It's interesting that you decided to give trans-age a thought for a few moments. There do exist people who claim to be trans-aged, and, indeed, a couple of years ago thefederalist (right-leaning, libertarian/conservative publication) had an article written on the very subject. This author was faux complaining of the discrimination that the trans-aged suffer and how the Obama administration had a civil rights blindspot in respect of persons who are afflicted by this alleged disorder. The article is in large measure satirizing various attempts by the Obama administration to accommodate people who aver they have gender dysphoria by way of imposing upon the liberties of everyone else in respect of them.
Mental disorders obey their own variant of rule 34: if you can imagine a mental disorder/condition, no matter how preposterous, there's someone who claims to (or will once it's conjured into existence claim to) be afflicted by it. Typically, they already exist. There are even websites on which people can discuss the different manifestations of their various age-identity issues (often it's mostly fantasy play, but there are also people in those groups who claim to really suffer from age dysphoria). It took me under a minute to find several such communities which are related to the subject. For example, see this thread: ddlgforum(dot)com/topic/16777-age-dysphoria/
You claim it is a joke or that it isn't a thing in the same way that many 'on the right' take issue with your ostensible condition. Are you going to go tell those people who claim to be suffering from this disorder that it's a joke, that it's not a thing? I'm certainly not in a position to know what they really feel, for only they can truly know. The flippancy with which you dismiss them is the selfsame maneuver with which your issue is dismissed, and for the same reason.
This will remain true if they have face lifts galore to fight the wrinkles age visits upon all who live sufficiently long. No matter what they do, their age won't change. And no matter what a transperson does, his/her sex won't change. And gender identity is, no matter how you gussy it up in metaphor or disguise it with anecdote, phenotypical. That's an expression of the genotype as it interacts with one's environment. Whatever surgical procedures you have, or whatever hormones you take, you're stuck with what nature bequeathed you.
I presume for any mental disorder there will be some underlying structure of the brain that causes it inasmuch as there exists no manifestation of our personality that isn't an expression of the genotype in an environment. It would be very bizarre if there existed an aspect of our personality that didn't have a material cause in the physical brain since that would imply that Cartesian dualism is in fact true; that is, our mind is not predicated upon the existence or function of our physical brain: they are ontologically distinct entities. Nothing known to science to date is compatible with such a proposition.
In the ordinary case, when someone has some manifestation of personality that's several standard deviations removed from the mean, we don't entertain the delusion* by playing along. We try to find ways to help them cope with it and function as well as they can, the disorder notwithstanding.
It's also false to claim that it's not possible for a 50 year old man to return his brain to a state in which he lacked formal operational reasoning. It's entirely possible to surgically damage the region of the brain that's the locus of such a mental process. Indeed, there are people who have such organic defects caused by trauma and/or disease. What you should say, but fail to say, is that if and when a person claims to have such a disorder, what we do not do is perform that kind of invasive surgical procedure to accommodate their discomfort. Rather, what we'd do is offer them therapy to cope with the age that they really are instead of pretending that any assertion about what they personally feel like their age is is in fact correct.
So too with people who think, for example, their arm doesn't belong to their body (amputee identity disorder). We don't cut off their arm to appease them. We try to help them come to terms with having that arm.
We take the opposite tack with people who wish to beautify themselves, or resist the external manifestations of age.
*delusional: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary
If someone who is born male claims to be female despite the evidence that he is in fact male, that is a belief regarding the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary. It's no response to that uncontroverted evidence to say: yeah, but I was born into the wrong body. (indeed, that by definition is idiosyncratic) Ben Shapiro also is at pains to point out, as he puts it, that until like five seconds ago the DSM defined this as a disorder. Further, it still defines this as a disorder, but with more convoluted and softer, more humane sounding language.
A person with amputee identity disorder can make exactly the same claim in response to one's proving that their left arm has been there since birth. They can always say "yeah, well, it was attached to the wrong body". Perhaps they could go on to explain that they're a chimera or some such to further embellish/rationalize the claim.
This is how we define self-referential mental disorders - a person has a view about him or herself which is not consistent with externally verifiable facts, who in turn continues to make the assertion notwithstanding those objective facts. I should also note that so long as the claim is not very far from the extrinsic facts, we take that as just ordinary variation within the psychological analogue of the empirical rule. So, the argument, so far as I can see it, would need to be reposed within that space, but the existence of dysphoria is the fly in the ointment. If it's within the range aforesaid, it shouldn't cause dysphoria - or more precisely shouldn't be expected to cause it. If it causes dysphoria, then one should expect that it's very far removed from the normal variation; i.e., it's sufficiently strange and manifests in psychological distress of such import that it's in the disorder category rather than the ordinary variation category.
The Justicar a great response
man why waste time for a response? ppl wont have their small minds changed
These "new right" pundits rely on finding the worst people with opposing arguments they can find, and then acting like that's the only argument, when in reality their ideas could be quickly destroyed by anyone who isn't part of a fringe ideology that doesn't truly represent progressive beliefs.
Except what good does that do when those "true progressives" are all buried inside universities and the cringefest is what's out there in the world, in the media and in real politics?
ud love that to be the truth wouldnt u
Came here to cringe but heard a good argument, now I've been stalking your whole UA-cam lol thank you for being competent 😂
FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE "gender" was simply a polite way of saying sex, without the possibility of being misunderstood as referencing sexual intercourse. I am very Libertarian-minded, so I don't really have a problem with trans people live their lives however they see fit. I just wish they'd pick a different word. You have millions of people over 50 who are completely lost on the idea that "gender" doesn't reference the genitalia you were born with. Gender and genitalia of birth were always one and the same for their entire life experience. Redefining a word that was already well understood just doesn't make sense.
if ur a boy that likes girl stuff it doesnt mean ur a girl it means ur a boy that likes girl stuff
Yeah, exactly. Luckily nobody is calling your strawman an actual transgender.
You're the best boy on UA-cam, shut up. Also you made really good points and I support your point of view on this situation ✨👀
Loki Why did you type “shut up” in your comment? Everything else makes sense, except for that.
When they typed that I believe they meant was to shut up about “being a girl”
@@Matthew-Anthony ikr
@@onepiece-gq4kp you're an "it"
She is a female=woman
So the issue here is that the word “man” comes from Latin and means a human (with a hand specifically) and “woman” means with a human hand AND a womb. Gender was a word that described a set of words, it had nothing to do with adjectives or identity until a group of humanities ideologue professors decided it should be. (Masculine and feminine would literally be the adjectives to describe identity).
Dictionaries are changing the definition on gender. Society is changing the definition of gender, you are expressing this view of the term gender as fact.
The argument from my perspective has nothing to do with how we treat trans people, it has everything to do with if this particular group of professors get to arbitrarily change the historical English language at will
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman#Etymology
This is so interesting. I'm glad others are liking it as well. For a long time people have been bashing on transness and no one had a reasonable response that wasn't more of the same. People just focus on the brains part or the gender versus sex part. No one that I've seen would go after more than that without ruining their argument by contradicting themselves. It's awesome to see someone my age taking on such a complex thing so resolutely (for lack of a better word). Everyone outside acts as if they have an answer that "destroys" trans people, so it's great that a person on the inside is showing the attitude this discussion really needs. It's a conversation, not a WWE match. The ending really got me as well. This won't mean much in terms of how you see yourself, but I've never thought of you as female.
Mason Hendricks no person with a penis should be allowed in the female bathroom, i really dont care(or anyone i know) who enters to the male one though. the reason being men being much more predatory than women.
i also have heard so many times this brain function argument that i took it from granted, i guess i should do some digging.
Mason Hendricks While I disagree with your claim that transitioning does not help lessen suicide rates. I don't know if you have statistics to back that up or something? Anything? I appreciate that you have respect for others though.
니로다 가미니 파띠바다 아리야사까 드까 That's a gender stereotype... or genital stereotype, I suppose. It's not penis means assault. That's just not how the world works, or how genitals work. It's so much more complex and you are dumbing it down to exclude trans women for no good reason.
I compliment how rational you are but to me, gender and sex are synonyms and there is a spectrum of masculine and feminine attributes but that doesn’t affect your gender or sex
Most of us who have in issue with what is unfolding in front of ours are looking at a whole bigger issue. One day you will see it.
When you get older you'll realize that trans-age feelings are something that the majority of people feel to at least some mild degree. Many 50 year olds you will meet will tell you that they still "feel" 40, and they mean it in the most straight forward way. It is a simple truth for them - how they feel inside does not match their drivers license. But the reality is that they are a 50 year old. Should they be able to require other people to acknowledge they are "actually" 40 now, because that is how they feel? Should they, for example, get cheaper life insurance because their internal age-identity is 40 and not 50? Of course not, and that is the root of Shapiro's argument, and it's an interesting one. A subjective truth is not the same as an objective truth.
You know what? You've earned my respect. I will adress you as whatever you feel like.
Silver Screen awh
Sheshesheshe
Gunnar Svensson wow
First of all respect is the minimum that you can have for someone else that hasn’t done anything to you. I will call someone woman if the person is able to procreate. Please nothing to do with infertility. Things are the way they are because that’s nature, not that I am creating something to help someone. You are lying to yourself
@@adrianbatista2291 No, that's common decency. Respect needs to be earned.
I'm a fan of Shapiro's use of logic and reason and his strong sense of fairness, though I completely disagree with his stance on many issues. It's so great you made this video responding to his comments on transgenderism! Those comments have struck me as his least well-thought out and least well-informed. It's truly brave of you to take on his arguments, especially as it's such an emotional topic for you. Thank you for doing this! I don't know very much about transgenderism but I think every adult should be able to live their life as they see fit, as long as they aren't harming anyone. I think speaking calmly and logically on the topic, as you have, goes a long way towards normalizing the topic. Go get 'em, man!
Some people who feel they don't have a community to be with, become transgender just to associate closely with them. I saw this occur.
I respect this person’s calm demeanor and lack of insults to those who disagree with them, it’s a rational debate tactic the far left should use.
Trans people have gender dysphoria. Period. Just because you like to play in the mud or have all guy friends doesn’t mean you can suddenly reassign yourself a new gender, it just means you aren’t the typical person if that gender. You know why men who play with dolls and want to be feminine get made fun of? Because there is already a sex that does that, they are called women. Evolutionary biology does not work with men and women being the same or interchangeable. If this persons argument that you can just change the abstract concept of gender, why don’t kids see their single mothers as dads and moms? Sure the mom may take in the primary breadwinner position but that’s economical because spoiler alert: WOMEN ARE THE NAURAL CAREGIVERS. If they could just project a male gender, kids from single mother. Households shouldn’t be committing abnormally high rates of crime, dropping out of school or suffering from depression,compared to kids from 2 opposite biological gender paren households. The human race has only survived because we have given each biological gender a role and while those roles can fluctuate, and they should to some degree, kids still need the biological consistency that has gotten humans through the past thousands of years, way before all this BS became mainstream. People with gender dysphoria need help, not because they are less human than regular people or need to be treated like animals, but because they believe they can cheat biology because they feel a certain way. The trans movement has spurred directly from the feminist movement, feminists wants all differences erased between men and women, foolishly not realizing men and women are supposed to be different in a lot of ways to fit together like a puzzle, one may have a piece that compliments their partner but they still retain mostly a new piece to complete the puzzle of child raising.
You don't actually disagree with Shapiro on much.
1) You agree sex and gender are the same 99% of the time
2) You agree trans people are not literally the opposite sex.
The only reason trans ageism isn't taken seriously is because there is no medical diagnosis (as far as I know). If that changed, their argument would be very similar to that of trans people.
Could you make a video on trans-race too? I'm really interested in this topic and other people's opinions on it.
I believe that there is no illness that deserves ridicule but if that's your opinion alright. Then it's my opinion that in your socialization something went terribly wrong probably. Also, how do you define mental illness in this case? What are the symptoms of a mental illness called "trans-race", what are the psychological mechanisms behind it? Don't get me wrong, I think that the concept of transrace is deeply racist but it's also my opinion that you should better reflect on your opinions.
You're actually pretty funny, I didn't realize this until now. What I meant by "reflecting on your opinions" was that you should probably substantiate them with, like, arguments. And if you come to the conclusion that you don't have any of these mystique creastures called arguments (like only just): arguing is not an end in itself. And you can get better if you just try hard enough, believe me. Just take a minute, breathe, think, think a bit longer, and then... wait, actually, you should think a bit-bit longerer after this, and THEN you can write your answer. I'm sure you can do this.
I forgot: Why do I think transrace is racist but transgender isn't sexist? Well, when you think you can be mentally another "race" than you are "born with" (I'm sorry if I offend any people identifying as transrace; I don't know the political correct terms for this) than you appear to believe that there is some "thing" in everyone's mind that defines what "race" we are - so you believe that it's part of our identity. And this is exactly what I believe to be racist about this transrace concept. There is no "thing" in our mind that defines what "race" we are because there are no races; there are only people. Yes there are some tinytinytiny differences in our genes that influence how our skin or our eyes look but apart from that there is no difference in our brains. People believing that there IS a difference between the so-called "races" are - in my opinion - the root of the problem we have with racism today because if you tie someone's looks (based on their ethnical background) to something about their identity, then that's my definition of racism. Race is a social construct.
We do have gendered brains, though, and it's a theory that transgender people are transgender because their brains are mapped like a brain of the opposite sex. (I don't know how it works for non-binary people but I do think that there's much research to be done on this topic. And I do think that everyone should be respected as the people they say they are) You could now argue that it's only a theory that trans people have a brain that's mapped differently or that gender may be a social construct, too. The truth is: I don't know and nobody can.
Here is my question. What is wrong with being a masculine woman or a feminine guy? There is a woman at my AA meetings who is very masculine (she's a plumber) If she were born today she'd be a transgender.....instead she's just herself.
I keep questioning why I have to be happy with my nose, my body type, my lack or lack there of testosterone, yet you and other "transgenders" have to go through such extreme motions. What is the difference between a transgender and the woman who has butchered herself to be a dragon? How about that guy who is now a alien due to extreme plastic surgery?
You say Tomboy like it's such a bad thing. When I was growing up that wasn't some deeply soul crushing insult the way you make it sound. Being a tomboy is so horrible you need to undergo hormones and surgery? Geez I better go get a nose job with that thinking OR learn to except myself for who i am.
Jesse Bach tomboy isn't a bad thing, but for some people it's just not accurate. You can do stereotypically masculine things and still identify as your birth sex. I don't feel comfortable with female embodiment, which is separate from whether or not I'm "masculine or feminine. I think I'm both. Most people are to some extent. But I'm definitely not a girl.
I understand your not feeling like a girl. What I question is all the countless "2 souled" people in native American culture (various cultures) around the world that found ways to live in their own skin without modern science.
I recently was listening to "History on fire" about Crazy Horse and the Lakota people. They had a woman who was considered masculine by their standards. She was a warrior and spent her time with men though she obviously didn't have hormones or surgery.
The thing is that transgendered people very rarely can actually pass for the opposite sex which just creates another set of problems/perceptions to deal with. It would seem to me to be better to just learn to love yourself for your body you were given.
I guess in the most extreme cases, sure do what you got to do and transition, but it seems far too common now. Camilia Paglia has talked about how if she were born today she would be considered trans. That saddens me because she's just a butch woman. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm a right-wing conservative, I love Ben Shapiro, I normally abhor the vast majority of the left, and I disagree with a lot of what she/he said, but I completely respect her/him for being rational, reasonable, calm, and for showing that she/he cares about the topic and doing research, which is something most liberals/lefties fail to do. It is very clear to me that she/he truly cares about this issue and it is also clear that she/he is not virtue signalling like most liberals/lefties do. I think that this is the type of person the left needs to have more of instead of the raging mentally inflicted SJW's.
MEPFful thanks, you can use he btw
Ollie Chadra you're welcome. Keep it up
I disagree with a lot of the things you said but I just want to say thank you so much for being respectful and nice because many leftists and liberals are extremely hateful towards people like me. I get bullied a lot at my school for expressing my conservative view points, so it's comforting to see leftists who aren't hateful like you.
I have really enjoyed watching your videos. It's cool that you watch and listen to Jordan Peterson and Shapiro. I've been trying to do the same with people like you and other reasonable people I would maybe disagree with on these types of topics. Keep doing what you're doing :)
this is so refreshing. I really liked this< even though I'm a Shapiro fan
I used to be a Shapiro fan. Dave Rubin, JBP and Gad Saad too. Jesus those were dark days. I hope by now you've caught on to Shapiro's shtick of deliberately equating gender and biological sex and using his argument regarding them as a basis for not voting Democrat. The absurdity of it. He's a con artist who just speaks fast with an attitude.
@RIP Joergen at first I loved him because I would consider myself a classical liberal or libertarian, as he does, and he kept saying he was trying to start a conversation and bridge both sides of the political spectrum. I liked that. It quickly became apparent that he used every opportunity to bash the worst parts of the left but ignore the worst parts of the right. He gets absolute morons or cretins on from the right (Candice Owens, Stefan Molyneux, Jeanine Pirro) and chimes in with them on blaming everything on the left, but on the left he gets on people that would be considered left-lite, or very close to centre. That's not how you bridge the gap. There are about seven other things that annoy be about him but I'm on the way to a music festival so I haven't time now!
Very intellectually rigorous & honest critique, Ollie!
What would Trans people do if their were no hormones or surgeries?
Your civil war example doesn't debunk what Ben said. Ben (and other conservatives) didn't deny that people can get gender dysphoria regardless of media influence but that media/cultural influence does currently have an effect on "gender confused" individuals and may convince them that they have gender dysphoria when they don't. Not denying that gender dysphoria exists but some may incorrectly believe they have it, especially young and confused kids.
"Facts don't care about your feelings"
It is special how polite you are. not many people act to the rules of argumenting like you do
Thanks, Ollie. You are a very brave and reasonable man (also, very cute). And you've actually made me change my mind on some of these issues.
I liked how level headed you are. I didn't get convinced that trans aged is different than trans gender however. While gender does have some elements that are purely social, it also has elements that are biological. Certainly there is a lot we don't know about this issue. Thanks for your video.
The age argument just makes clear that gender is directly linked to your biology and that's just not up for debate.
A better comparison would be body integrity identity disorder, psychological disorders are simply not "cured" by putting oil into the fire, if you will. And that is simply what gender dysphoria is, a psychological disorder that needs treatment not nurturing...
I'm gay for you. Seriously great video though
Roughly speaking 😉 Nice one, bucko
i dont usually get shooketh by these types of videos, but one thing that just couldnt sit right with me is how you were approaching the way Ben Shapiro said his words. When Ben Shapiro said "why arent you 60", i believe, he wasnt saying it in a mental way, he was stating it in a factual way, let me explain. Just because someone who is 11 acts 70, doesnt mean they are 70 and vise versa, this is the mental state of claiming "trans-age" (i honestly hate that word) or someone who acts the age subconsciously, but what i think Ben Shapiro made pretty clear is that he was suggesting to the factual side, as in, for example, just because someone SAYS theyre 70, doesnt make them 70, as in anyone who claims it, nothing to do with their mental state.
His point didnt have to do with the fact that people feel uncomfortable in their own skin (i personally believe anyone can dress/act/interact in anyway they want, as long as it doesnt include me), his point was that just because someone claims they are a "women" or a "man" doesnt mean they are actually that, both factually and scientifically, and how they shouldnt expect everyone else to suggest to them in that sex, this is why he used the factual side of the "trans-aged" topic. Just because someone says they are 60 , 70 , or even 6, doesnt mean they are actually that age, because age (just like sex) is something fixed biologically and cannot be changed by simple will. So, similarly, his point is that just because someone who is biologically a man says to be called a women, that doesnt give them the facts to call them a women just because they want to be called a women. They (trans people) shouldnt force their ideals into peoples throats just to suit their needs.
I see many points you made and they were made well, but the topic you chose to tackle was simply the wrong one.
And just to clarify once more, i am not against trans people, honestly i just dont care, i hope them the best in finding who they are, but just do it bothering those who arent bothering you is all im saying.
Why go through the trouble of calling someone who clearly looks like a she, behaves like a she and is named like a she a he once you find out that they were born male? Like, what is the point? What is it that is so bad about making the life of someone who's going through a lot of trouble that you can't even understand, a little more bearable? If an old lady drops her groceries right in front of you do you also just ignore and walk right past her because "no one should be obligated to be nice if they don't want to"? Do you skip on giving tips to your bartender? What's with this insistence on being a bad human being to people who are contributing to society just as much as you are?
@@AlquimistEd because if I get a Honda, put Ferrari wheels on it, engine, paint it red, interior, I really hope you wouldn't expect me to call it a Ferrari. In fact let's go many steps closer, I'm gonna build a replica that looks IDENTICAL in everyway to the original.
It's still not a Ferrari.
@@dlg78 A replica of a ferrari doesn't have mental health issues that get worsened by continuously being outcast by others and being made fun of for the fact it isn't a real ferrari, to the point it drives it into suicide.
@@AlquimistEd well then maybe they should get mental health help instead of sticking Ferrari badges on themselves? Just a thought...
@@dlg78 well, what type of mental health help would that be, O wise one? Because from what I know, transition is the only option that actually works. But hey, if you got a better option, do tell!
Hey Ollie, I'm personally a big Ben Shapiro fan, but I've been watching your videos for a while as well. I just want to lead off with telling you that I respect your work and the fact that you generally try to take a step back and look at things objectively.
I watch your stuff because, in all honesty, transgenderism confuses me, especially when many of the advocates also fight for otherkin as well. Personally I understand a person wanting to change their sex, but changing only gender I find odd, especially as it is mostly a case of external perception. Something that the person in question has little control over at the best of times.
I grew up both abroad and in rural parts of America, I actually had a friend named Jo(as in Joanne) growing up that I adore to this day. She was definitely a Tomboy and I don't remember anyone looking down on her for her ways, she was just one of the guys. But I also wouldn't have called her transgender, because she had no interest in being perceived as a man. I guess what I'm getting at is, she liked guy things, so she did them. It didn't matter what people thought of her. I personally thought that was a pretty healthy way to live her life. On the other hand, it feels like transgender is similar, but to a greater degree, and what tends to concern me is that it seems to be primarily externally focused.
Would you consider Jo to be transgender, just because of how she portrayed herself?
Also, would you consider my observations about transgenderism to be primarily focused on external perceptions to be correct?
If you have a moment to answer I would definitely appreciate it.
Keep up the good work and stay beautiful.
Hey, I’m a cis woman who some would call Tom boy-ish or androgynous! It’s more of a way of self expression. I can’t speak for your friend, but I’d say some of us like pushing the gender norms but still feel comfortable in our bodies and don’t experience dysphoria. I want to add that gender (not sex) in the end, is basically just means of self identification. I’m also sorta confused by people using “zer, zed, fae “ .. ya know, made up stuff, but I think it’s important to give them a change to figure out how they fit into this binary we have. I think you would really benefit from talking with a trans or non-binary person as it will help you to understand better.
I have no problem with transgenders, it's your choice and right to live your life! I do have a problem with parents forcing or encouraging it. Many liberals find having a trans kid fashionable these day's.
I'm an ex-Military single parent.daughter. My daughter being raised by a military dad and 2 older brothers made her Tomboyish? As she grew older the more feminine she became. She still likes video games and shooting guns but now has begun wearing make-up and liking boys.
My point is childhood is confusing enough without parents encouraging them to be trans. You see all these these celebrities & You Tubers with trans kids and the first thing that comes to mind is child abuse. I just feel it's being overly encouraged when it shouldn't. Being feminine or a Tomboy doesn't mean trans in most cases.
I am having difficulty imagining the hypothetical because even though I am a guy, "kind of" I dont really know what it means to feel like a guy vs a woman. If that makes sense?
Hey I want to be 3 right now, toddlers have it made in the shade.
Quacks Dashing This is something I have wondered too. It is hard to ask that question since it is usually seen as argument against transgenderism, which is not what I mean by it. I have never felt strongly about my sex, I know how being strait feels like. I don't mind being a guy, but the thought experiment doesn't make me feel I would mind. I 100% agree gender dysphoria is real thing, I just think I'm missing something others feel.
I think there is two possible solutions, either I would actually feel dysphoria if I suddenly changed to a woman and just cannot imagine it or that some of the population just happen to be indifferent about their sex. My gut feeling is that the latter is true, if not for me, then for some portion of the population.
Crowcage same, the only part that made me cringe was the puberty thing
That's because 'feeling' like a man or woman doesn't actually feel like anything.
Laze I wonder if its as simple as liking things more associated with masculinity or if its more than that... I mean, I always liked GI Joe, but I also enjoyed Golden Girls.
Idea about what gender you should be is most likely hard coded in the brain.
It is possible that some part of the population lack the coding or the coding isn't very strong. I heard there is some evidence about this but nothing very solid or conclusive.
"Gender is an abstract concept. It just IS."
Oh, well then, ok, I guess we're done here.This person has expressed an opinion, and that's the end of it. Thanks everyone for coming.
did you watch any more of the video past that point errr...?
Still watching...
Ok, I hear you. If you feel more comfortable living as a man, have at it. Best wishes.
I'm really not sure why appearance matters so much. If I choose to grow my hair long and wear a skirt, am I a transgender women, or a hippie in a kilt? If appearance doesn't matter, then what's left? Being bold? Being intrepid? Nothing stops either sex from exhibiting these traits.
You sir are brilliant. Community college? You should be teaching at an ivy league university.
I'm a huge fan of Ben Shapiro and I agree with about 99% of what he says on most topics. You have successfully opened my eyes to a new perspective on this subject... this hasn't swayed me completely, but I'm now on the fence about it needing more clarification from both sides before I can solidify my own opinion on the matter. No small feat on your part considering my age.
Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Actually age is pretty interesting when you think about it, because we all age differently, but we count our age based on how many times we've revolved around the sun. But biologically speaking, some of us age much faster than others and some of us much slower. That's why some of us look like we're 18 at 35, but others look like 40 at age 25. Age is an individual process, but the way we measure it is based on something abstract and unrelated to our biological aging process - so far we don't have another better measure of age though.
What a time to be alive, when mental illness is cheered... Marxists white-hating has achieved their scope...
Respect to you. Solid points.
Honestly I think that gender is bound to your sex. BUT. and that's a big but. That doesn't mean that that there aren't going to be people who are going to have mental disorders (and i'm using that as a strictly medical/scientific term, and not to belittle anybody) with which they are born, which i would say being intersex is. That is also not to say that they should have any less rights or be treated unequally in any way, that is not my problem. My problem is that then, when teachers and the public try to tell my kids that they are boys when they are girls and girls when they are boys. And if you think i'm being ridiculous, this is exactly what happened to my nephew who lives in Germany. He is more effeminate than other guys, and the teacher (He is in Kindergarten or 1st grade if I remember right) tried to tell him that he might be transgender and gave him all sorts of talks about it until my uncle figured out about it and gave em hell. This is absolutely unacceptable. You can make kids think anything if you tell them often enough, which can ruin their childhood. I think we should briefly but precisely tell children that those people exist and that they are OK, so that IF a kid feels that that way growing up (and from what i heard from trans people, it's quite obvious, even from a young age) they know it's OK, but not as much as to make children who are a little bit different than other children think that that's them, because that can and will have devastating effects on them.
I think that this is all even more supported ,and should give us a HUUUUGE caution sign, by the fact (which you brought up) that up 20% of people want to have gender reversal surgery EVEN as not every person who might be trans is trans because of social stigmas AND even as not every person who identifies as trans is getting surgery. This just goes to show how extremely careful we should be with these sorts of things, ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN.
So there's that. If you have any questions. I tried to be as clear as possible but if something isn't crystal clear, do ask. and if you disagree, do argue.
Wow, the majority of the comment section is so civil! It’s refreshing.
I respect you. A lot. I’m a huge Peterson and Shapiro fan and you have possibly made the best argument for your community which is honestly sad. There needs to be more individuals like you coming up with these arguments, backing it up with evidence, and reviewing it with effective and relevant analysis. No disrespect but on paper, there aren’t seemingly THAT many transgender people doing that. Have a good day! :)
"Gender is not something you can change from day to day" People who claim to be genderfluid would call your actions a hate crime for not agreeing, and you calling Ben Shapiro someone who is guilty of a hate crime is not appealing, it's just an ad hominem that is powerful because you can combine the words "hate" and "crime", both of these words are way more incriminating and vile than what you consider when you put the two words together to make a compound word. Noone is denying your humanity. A lot of people will find you super interesting for being unique. Some people will hate you for being unique but I'm me (white cis straight male) and people still hate me for no reason other than that they are ignorant and I say fuck those people, I only care about the positive, the rest is rubbish and irrelevant. The trans community seems wildy sad and oppressed when they probably are received by some as a super cool and unique person when I am seen as bland by almost all because of my identity and ridiculed by the left because of something I can't control. The days of calling people a bigot needs to come to an end.
The only thing that will convince me about transgenderism is if there's definitive biological evidence for it. "Identify as" as an argument means nothing to me. To feel like you’re someone else than your biological sex is not a factual argument of a biological condition. If 99% of people identify with their biological sex, that's a better argument for biological sex & gender being the same, than if 1% doesn't. Your argument against trans age was unconvincing, the argument being “trans age is not a real thing, therefore it’s a joke” and you explain that those who might feel younger suffer from biological conditions or mental disorders. You say that it doesn’t help them to portray themselves as 5 year olds if they’re not, yet you don’t give the same argument about gender. I’d also like to see you and the rest of the trans activists take on the concept of being transracial. That’s far more uncomfortable to discuss. Also, there’s little evidence to suggest transitioning does help. Suicide rates are still high post transition.
Well, according to this study, overall suicide attempts are at it’s highest among young people 18 - 24, and at it’s lowest among 45 - 65++ year olds.
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
I doubt post transition changes those stats particularly.
I'm no scientist, but if you're telling me that the biological evidence for transgenderism isn't in yet, how can you make the claim that being transgender is a legitimate condition while transracial isn't? In these days it’s enough to feel like you're someone else. You can be gender fluid and have an infinite number of gender identities. Fuck, you can even be trans species and expect to be taken seriously. And by the way, if there's one thing that jives with your genitalia, its chromosomes; it's the genome that determines your actual gender. And by the way number 2: transitioning IS EXTREME. Gender surgery is extreme. Injecting chemicals into your body that your body constantly tries to reject is extreme. The fact that your body, through your brain, is constantly trying to reverse the process of transitioning is, if anything, more proof that gender and genitalia is inevitably linked.
0:48 where'd you get your IQ tested? I've been gravely curious about mine for some time now. I haven't found a reliable source yet.
Dont worry about your iq. It tells you very little about someones actual intellect. I, for example, was tested several times and came out with different levels within the same same range, 150-168. My grandmother was in Mensa and asked me if i wanted to join. Because i loved my grandmother, i said yes. I went to one of their meetings, and, while this was suppose to be a group of "intellegent" people, there was a LOT of stupidity. The amount of logical fallacies and ignorance i witnessed was ridiculous. Additionally, people kept bringing up their iq in their arguments as if that were relevent to their opinion. It is all just another way to self aggrandize and further one's ego. Some of the smartest people i have met have low iqs. It doesnt seem to be any kind of reliable way to determine intellegence. I hope this was helpful. Good day.
-CJ
Ollie, I'm right wing and contrary to the assertions of the left we WANT to understand....we want the other side to engage with us because there is a good chance that on some aspects we may be wrong....but the left is just idiotic...just saying....your argument made sense, it was coherent and logical...even explained how "feels" plays a part alongside "reals"....I feel like I have a better understanding of the issue....you did good man....we need to get you out there to explain the crazy ass shit the majority of libtards scream at us during their emotional spurg fests....help them Ollie One, you're their only hope 😋
Dude, I will never knock a person for trying, so good on your for takin steps and all! Buuut, you gotta step forward as well. Whether it’s contempt for Marxism or an undying faith in the Free Market, you can’t come to the table with a gun, then act surprised when anyone else shows up packing. I can go through and over analyze but it’s all the same shit - a lot of me dehumanizing you down to some dumb key words, then judging you based on dumb words. Please. Tear my dumb normie ass apart
+totes jokin ok, firstly I will not be tearing your normie ass up...that's just gay 😜....secondly, if I do raise my voice it is immediately shut down because I don't have the credentials being any of the supposed oppressed groups and even if I were a transgendered, African albino midget with a missing leg it wouldn't matter if I were not saying what you want to hear....case and point is this courageous young man prompting this discussion....care to ask him the vitriol he was met with for straying off the mandated path for his group? (Very bigoted btw...just saying).....thirdly, your side is making the claims that go against established science and reason....if you believe that we have gotten it wrong then the onus is on you to substantiate your claims not on us....you point to a fish and call it an elephant then when the right points out the obvious, rather than substantiate your assertion you simply declare it is so because you feel it and the questioner is a *insert "ist" word*
+雨Jacob 雨 because you use conservative and nazi interchangeably as well...as the saying goes "what's good for the goose is good for the pansexual, Demi queer, transgendered gander"....I updated it to modern day language.....left and liberal are like time and space, both intertwined and make up the fabric of leftist world view....
+Jon Rosen I'm not sure what you are saying as your text is all broken up but from what I did understand you are saying that gender roles are a social construct...that is where the error lies....it is in part a construct but it is mostly a biological one....evolution driven...if we remove biology from the mix then yes, certain aspects are purely societally driven but society can collapse and biology will still rule...thanks to ollie's well articulated and calm arguments I can see that things are not as black and white as I had thought...I see that self identity also plays a role and deserves recognition...where I depart from the left is in the attempt to force me to conform to the self identity of a person....if I don't want to use your made up pronouns that makes me an asshole....not a criminal that is to be punished by the state....
I’m flattered that you think I have a “side” in this, but It feels unearned considering Im just a godless cherry picker. I think a dick has a boy attached to it, and the other one has the other one. But I don’t think a boy asking me to call him a girl is an attack or challenge to my morality. At the same time, you can’t ask someone for a favor (is it not a favor?) and when they refuse, you punish them. That’s fucking crazy, and everyone knows it. But alas, both sides think they are defending people. And you are. But I do NOT understand the refusal to consider it some combo of mental health disorders. WTF? Yeah, I’m sure it’s totally not the sponge computers that have everything to do with everything about human beings. Yikes. But yeah, I don’t know. I’ll call you whatever you want, girl, anytime. But you can’t decribe nightmare fuel gender dysphoria, and follow it with “but I’m fine now, IM SURE THAT WONT EVER HAPPEN AGAIN”. Every one should have a “before suicide, let’s try to find happiness” list, and “CUT YOUR DICK OFF” should be veeery far down the line.. Definitely there, though.
i discussed the transgender label with my psychiatrist recently asking him about why the APA decided to unlabel it as a mental illness. He told me that it was largely fear of lawsuits from lgbt advocacy groups that caused them to vote on it. So not only was it a politically motivated decision, it was also a vote which anyone with an iq higher than 60 knows is not a way to conduct medicine.
Secondly the definition of delusion is believing a firmly held conviction that is contadicted by obvious logic or a general consensus accepted as fact. Since you are biologically a woman who thinks you are a man, or identifies as a man, then yes that is by definition a delusion. no different than cotard's syndrome or lycanthropy. what needs to be done instead of removing certain disorders from the DASM is to as a society stop stigmatizing mental illness.
Trans age identities are illegal if you try to gain certain privileges associated with an age. i know. i tried to get a senior discount at Denny's by saying i identified as 60. they said no. it is called age fabrication. So why should gender be any different?
Why would I listen to someone who's confused just because you feel ur a boy doesn't mean u are one
This was articulate and level headed. Good job, Ollie.
You are a shining light in this world.
i love ben. but i will listen.
smart decision !
It's not a bad video at all, but I believe Ben Shapiro's stance on transgenderism makes a lot more sense than yours. Your example @6:24 is so overly-hypothetical it is easy to counter it. It still doesn't change anyone's sex. Shapiro admits that he doesn't know what can help assist Trans with their illness but that doesn't mean we go along with what they have been brought up to believe. If they choose to live as a male or female then that's great but they should not feel like the rest of the world should treat them as the sex their mother or father treated them as. That's the fault of their parents and those around them. But nothing but respect for this video.
There has been transgender studies since at least the 80's. John Hopkins did alot until it found that transgender surgery did not help with the psychological issues. Most were no more happier and the suicide rate did not change. The studies you referred to about brain matter difference were after people were on hormone replacement. The hormones change the brain because they are poison when used the way transgenders use them.