How much speed can you buy? | Cycling Weekly
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
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What advantage does the ultimate aero set-up give you over a 10-mile time trial? The experimental results are in…
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Love how these bike testers can knock out 300W for 20 mins and look like they haven't broken a sweat. Chapeau, sir! :)
Meanwhile 100 watts is killing me.
Ross Cadogan Exactly! I can hold 215 watts on a good day and I'm sweating to death doing it.
Ross Cadogan haha indeed. One of the tests to be able to become a police or fireman here is to cycle 250W at 50rpm for 6 min. We did that at work for fun one day (I'm a train driver and we got fitness tests and free gym as a perk), and I was almost dead at the end of it. Just bought a race bike for cardio, I need it haha. Fairly fit 25-year old (concerning strength) for reference. 300W for 25min seem unbelievable.
Slidewinder1337 What's your weight? 215 watts isn't necessarily bad. To compare yourself to other riders you need to look at watts per kilogram. For example, I weigh 75kg and to test FTP (years ago) did an hour on the turbo at 320 watts, about 4.2W/kg. That was when I first got my power meter, in December well before starting to train hard for racing as a 3rd category rider. For a non racer though, 2-3 W/kg is perfectly good.
MattProtagonist bear in mind weight plays a big part in it. A fairly big 3rd category racer, say 6ft tall and 12 stone for example, may find 300w or more fairly easy (or at least not so difficult he feels like dying afterwards) to hold for 25 minutes, Whereas his 9 stone, 5 foot 8 tall, non racing housemate might find anything over 240 watts very uncomfortable and indeed feel like dying after holding it for 25mins.
Depends on:
1. How much money you have.
2. Your dealer.
+Michael McDermott Drug dealer
A local 50km race in my area was won by a 16 year old who was 3min faster than 2nd place. One hell of a dealer I bet.
Calm down Mr.Armstrong,
Lol
My best time in 1978 on a Shorter was 22.07 for 10miles. What would that be today.
Not only does a skinsuit like that cost 300-400 pounds, you also have to give up your dignity
Anki LOL
You give up your dignity to look professional ?????
Be reyt. Some of us have no dignity to lose.
What? I'd be never caught riding in my bike wearing cheap lycra. It's actually a social status symbol in my country. (Skinsuits)
What country do you live? All guys use only skeen suits?
£11k on a bike, my missis would kill me, ......."but that did include the skin suit", SLAP.
+palmer3977 you would ride your bike more that you ride your missis
+Esseker Fit ahahaa.. based on his beta male post, I would wholeheartedly agree!
They Live We Sleep 😂
@@Immortal__ Agreed. Noticed this trend of self-depreciating guys when I moved to the Western world. Like, "My wife gave me permission to...", "My wife kicked me out of the house.", "My wife made me sleep on the couch." Very sad how men has become manginas.
Damn. What an amazing power he has, with an AV of 37km/h on a B Twin. That makes me feel ashamed of myself.
uhhhhh, i did that on my btwin hybrid.....
The rule of average speeds is concistency. All he small taps on the brake sets you back half a kilometer. Every corner you dont push halts it down 0.2 kilometers. In racing you need to brake early and throttle out of the corners. Being fast on a bike is much like being fast on a race track. Every corner, every hill, the traffic, the Wind - every single thing put together makes a big difference in the end.
Assuming that the road was fairly flat and the bike was set up nicely (new bearings, well tuned up and properly lubricated) the only significant difference was the aerodynamics. The problem with B'twin (and yes I own one) is that its relatively heavy and components are of a poor quality, so over time the bike gets much slower if not maintained very frequently (changing bearings, cleaning drive train often, changing bottom bracket and perfect break pads tuneup etc). So don't be ashamed of yourself, because this guy did the test on a brand new, tuned up b'twin, and it was a very short test. Also he used clipless pedals, do you use them? Its like 15% extra power.
You? I felt doubly ashamed just reading your comment. Have to say, on my tri-bike I just feel like I'm going a lot faster than on my road bike
@@mentaltminefelt6469 ...in short..throw away all the breaks..then you can for sure win..lol
I agree with Sills71. The video was supposed to be about kit, not position on the bike. To make a convincing and worthwhile video, he should have used aero bars on the entry level bike or stayed off the aero bars on the TT bike. I would bet most of the time gains were because of position, not kit.
You have to buy aero bars, the point of this video was to show what the difference is between an entry level road bike and the best of the best. The position is part of what comes with that cost. It's more than just aero bars, frame geometry is part of what facilitates that body position.
Mark Lackley - I will run this test this coming weekend! I don't mean this to be a shameless plug, but I should have the video up in a few more weeks of data collection...and editing. (I've been running the same route for the last 2 years or so and collecting data)
Mark Lackley you can buy a bike fit.
@@WildOutdoorLiving difference inposition is hughe. Its like running against the wind and running with no wind at all.
The bigger difference is from your position!Not from material!
racing bike tester but the position is part of the bike
That is why I would have liked to see him ride the BTWIN with clip on aero bars. Since it was a time trial I think that would have been a more fair comparison.
Cris Signori and a cheap tt helmet like the Kronus and some cheap skin suit. Biggest differences by far are position and clothing
the jockey wheal is almost half the price of the competing bike!!! I would love to overtake someone knowing they spent 95 quid on a flipping jockey wheal!!!
ego is priceless to many people. The industry thrive on this.
*wheel*
yeh but chances are, you won't. just sayin...
Hey Jockey Wheels are awesome!
37km/hr on a bike that cost 200 pounds... WOW That is amazing.
Gear eficency is the same on all bikes
Doesnt mstter the price. You can get same speeds an all bikes. Its all about air friction
why is it amazing?
Why is it amazing! I bet you can go faster than that, lol
Yeah that’s only 22 miles per hour. Really easy, I can do that on my mountain bike when riding the really smooth good quality paved trails and some roads.
"Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades" - Eddie Mercx
go for the £200 bike + power meter
+jlebrech 200 for bike 1000 for power meter :P ... but yeah i would do the same, just spend atleast 1000 on bike also
Free man brands need to ship with power meters
+jlebrech Project 1 Trek give the option of power meters ;) You just need to be filthy rich to afford it!
@@jordanpearson4824 Or buy a bike instead of a car
I own that btwin bike and I have to say I really like it
+Louis Greenleaf What is the model?, i love it
btwin triban 300
@@howardlalala3699 and I have a btwin triban 140
@@howardlalala3699 with me only being a child which cycles daily
I think you can ride in TT position in a road bike. All you have to do is spend a few bucks on aero bars.
That should close the gap from 37kph to 40kph
I have one major gripe with this video - you adopted entry level kit, but you didn't have to use an entry level position on the bike. I would love to have seen you with your forearms down on the bars getting as aero as possible.
Who rides like that?
@@MrLyckegard It's done all the time in a breakaway on the Tour de France. It's worth watching from time to time.
Great video, I really enjoyed.
I had a cheap end B-Twin bike to get me back into riding some time ago and I have to say it was a great bike for the cash spent.
Fantastic video! I think another comparison that would be nice would be an entry level bike vs. a high end bike where I imagine your money would buy you even less speed on a flat surface
I want to see the same test but now at 400W ;-)
spend 9000£ to be more aero, has a beard
Simon WoodburyForget wouldn't a beard add drag?
It adds weight too
Simon, can say the same to you. lol
It's actually more than likely that the beard helps. Creating a boundary layer of turbulent flow around his face. Lowering the drag. It is the same idea of rough sharks skin or dimples on a golf ball.
Would've been a better comment, if you said, grows a beard, rides a fancy saddle , and not wears a leather jacket 😂 instead some spandex.
Modern TT bike vs tt bike from a couple of years ago (front rim brake with no fairing, bolts on stem, cables, cables, and cables). Go!
I bought 5 kilometers per hour on plain ground and 2 kilometers per hour on 10-16% climbs with a stiffier and lighter carbon frame and lighter carbon wheels with 64mm rims, all over my previous endurance bike.
You should've moved your arm in the middle when running the B-Twin to have similar position. I do that on a cheap rigid mtb and it makes quite a difference.
My goodness 40km/hr... That's great I struggle with 25km/hr but I just started, nice job
Great video. Really like the summary at the end. From a mountain biker.
This is one of the best Cycling videos on UA-cam
I wonder how much Btwin would hit in same clothing and with aero bars. I think around 40km/h. 80% drag is from body anyway.
But cheap bearings come into play here too imo.
Great video on an issue I was wondering about for some time.
Would it be an idea to do the same test with the same entry level bike and a 'normal' Tour de France or Giro type of high end bike & kit?
If the body position would be the same on both bikes, the results would be very useful for 99,9 percent of us.
As there are not a lot of time trial bikes on the road.....
Good sum up. Well put.
Nice video
We also have to keep in mind that the faster we get, the higher the difference between an aero setup and a basic one.
If you ride the btwin and 37kph you can spend £11000 to gain 15% in speed.
But if you can only ride the btwin at 25 kph, the same investment will improve your average speed by far less !
Nice video, great test! Thanks alot!
Page 2:57 has a bike with 3 spokes front and full surface (no spoke) rear.
Turbulence by the 3 spokes wheel is unavoidable.
By the time air reaches the rear wheel air flow was already at Max turbulent, that spoke less rear option may offer little to no advantage.
A more rational arrangement is reverse the order between front and rear. So front produce little to no turbulence. Or better off both spoke less.
pinter yang buat video ini,,thanks
Probably should have had the same aggressive position on both bikes and not have one as a TT and one as road.
The marginal gains which the TT gear can provide only "activates" if you have the engine for it, not to mention tracks are different so its make the efficiency all over the place.
Surely mantis position is be a ton more aero, that position looks really open to the wind . When I'm riding if my chin is above my hands I can really feel the wind on my head and shoulders
Depends on:
Determination
Mindset
and the most important is your Knees.
Well one is TT bike and one a road bike!
it is the best video about bikes and values ı have ever seen. thank you
Great experiment! I wonder how results would look like for lower power because kinetic energy rises with square of velocity and more than that, air resistance also rises with square of velocity. So in theory with lower power, difference in avarage velocity should be far greater. ;)
Perhaps testing entry vs aero bike with speedsuit (Castelli San Remo) and Aero Helmet (Kask Protone)? Aero position makes this test not so great. Test with like position on the bike.
It would be cool to do an other test at something like 250 watts, so a bit closer to an amateur cyclist just to see if it still help that much at this power!
TT position is different and fun ... not just time , it’s more a feeling and vibe :)
The gear eficency is exactly the same on all bikes (sora or dura ace). All the difference is made by the friction force with the air. If you had no air all the bikes had exactly the same speed. And when it comes to the price: nowadays we started to pay the brand more than the actual product. You can build same bike with around 1500£ on aliexpress. And the quality is around there
Very informative video indeed! Just wondering though as to what the gear ratios, crank and cassette, were for each bike. Anyone know?
Never knew Bridgewood used to do cycling weekly. Now he is a GCN
Depends on the rules and course, if fairing and recumbent bans are lifted, and the course is much or less flat , even a ~5000 USD M5 CHR and Cruzebike Vendetta V20 will be faster than a 20,000 standard road or tri bike, and adding a fairing of ~500 USD, they will be faster
What is the G10 42 course? Is this an out and back course? Flat or hilly? Was there any wind? direction of wind? Why not add a cheap set of aerobars onto the BTWIN since this is a time trial and that is the cheapest add on to get one into the proper position for doing a time trial?
50pounds per second... Let that sink in for a moment...
Wooah!
I think that is a bit misleading though. The efficiency difference between a £400 and £800 setup is much greater than £800 and £1200 for example. So the increase in efficiency exponentially decreases for every spent pound.
thanks, excellent stuff mate
that skin suit costs more than my bike
Because this was done on open street with cars, there are plenty of additional aerodynamic variables unaddressed here. For example, as a large truck passes from behind, the rider will enjoy a aerodynamic "windfall" while riding in the vortex.
this is the best cycling video
Aero track bike, leg power, light body, no fear, you are good
great video! very entertaining.
Yaay a Canyon bike! (Canyon HQ is 20 min from where I live) 😊
what do you think, this btwin vs a venge. same clothing and both times on the drops, how much faster would it be?
The best way to buy speed is a coach, power meter, a solid head unit, and TP premium
If i´m not mistaken its an improvement of around 17,5%!! I will assume that is pretty brutal in a competitive perspective
Questions: How fast would I go on an entry lvl road bike like that btwin in comparison with an mountain bike(around 17 kg) with front suspension 26 inch wheels with slick tires in it? Also should I go for an entry lvl road bike with drop bars like btwin 300 or a more low end equipment road bike with a flat bar like the 340 fb btwin sells?
I would like to see how this fancy Canyon bike would compare with a budget time trial bike, not a road bike. I'd like to see how the Canyon compares with a cheap Fuji Aloha with the position dialed in
ฉันคิดว่า B-twin ควรได้รับการติดตั้ง แอโร่บาร์ด้วยเช่นกัน ถึงจะยุติธรรม ผลต่าง อาจจะน้อยจนคาดไม่ถึง
I think B-twin should be installed. Aero bar as well To be fair, the difference may be so small as to be expected.
Has any one noticed he has a lisp? This makes home EVEN MORE AWESOME!!!
really good analysis.
I wonder how much the riding position changes increases the time
3:39 saved over 100 miles is a lot by the way
34:30 saved so a 4:30:00 ride could be nocked to 4:00:00 and over 24 days at a time save of say 30 means you save 12 hours
So for tour de France and other competitions or long rides its defiantly worth it’s
I bought a pre-owned 2015 Scott Speedster 40 with Sora components for $400 a year ago (roughly 10kg with standard wheelset) and I recently spent another $200 on a lightly-used chinese carbon wheelset (1.6kg) with 25mm Continental GP4000's.
The point is: I don't think it matters how much money you spend; it matters how much money you save.
Could I have spent several times as much and have something 500g lighter? Sure... but why?
It'll be nice if you could add the imperial system and USD as annotations so we could understand better.
To be fair, you should be riding on that B'Twin with aero bars.
but how many watts do you need to output on the cheap bike to keep up with the expensive one at 300w?
I think today to have a nice bike that you can have all you need , you can buy for about 2000$ . For less than 1000$ you can also buy nice bike but it wont less for a long time. Spending more than 2500$ is a stupid. I'm 58 yrs old and planing to retired very soon and than will ride every day around 50-60 km for the rest off my life , and will spend around 2000$ . Curently have Cannondale R1000 , about 20 yrs old with around 60-70K km ( with Ultegra package) and still is in good condition. I'm still rading every day ( without rain) 30-35 km and bike is perfect .
Wow great desighn .
A shame to think people won't get the "change in the phone booth" gag in the not too distant future. Nice one :D
Which Btwin is it exactly? I want to by it
oooh great tests :) thx
more the bike costs heavier the lock you need to carry with:D. i would better use the cheap one with a light cable lock than a 2kg heavy duty abus bordo plus-x.
i bought the exact same bike for my dad, the btwin, they are great value for money. so much so that btwin is one of britains best selling bikes- if not the best. This fact makes that type of bikes ubiquitous among cyclists so its easy to see if you have that bike then the bike may not stand out. it may not be very original. To remedy this i had the bike resprayed at the cost of £65 at Gneiss customs painted bikes, orange in fact and got my dads surname painted on it. Now it looks like a custom build but costing a fraction of the cost of other entry level bikes.
How much does it weigh mate?
probably about 11kg
That's too heavy tho? It should be at least in single digits
Could you do this test again but use the skin suit on the cheap bike and normal kit on the tt bike?
The only experiment they should do is to put tri bars on the cheap bike and run the test again. Any other changes to this experiment will not cause any significant changes that can be measured the way they conducted this test
taking the giant stem spacers out would make a big difference too
Hey, it's Ollie from GCN!
what's the difference in weight?
This is a good video showing aero vs weight . I am sick to my balls of having to explain to people the difference of being a weight weenie and going for speed . A light bike won't make you go faster on the straights . It will however make you hill climb and accelerate quicker and use less energy . That is it .
and roads are never perfectly flat nor are they always straight and sometimes you have to corner and brake. So while aerodynamics are king and the most important, light weight helps quite a bit too and up steep hills it's more important than aerodynamics
Thanks.
oh, Dorking, this is my riding grounds :)
Being that descending is my favorite part of cycling. There is this descent I managed between 50-53 mph sustained for nearly a mile with a top speed of 55 mph. I'm wondering how much faster I would be on this type of TT bike but with regular handle bars and with a skin suit? I'm guessing being able to sustain 55-60 mph?
You will still be faster on your own roadbike if you tuck like this i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/gaucho510/Gaucho%20Bicycle%20Racing%20Photos/SaganTuck2_zpshhxr5spi.jpg
you can't hold a TT position on a descent unless you have a straight shot down the mountain and or you want to cash out on your life insurance policy a bit early!
i think GCN did a video on that and found it was about 3% faster
Alan Cardenas He literally said he would swap to regular bars. How would he adopt the TT position?
Edit: Ah darn this video's old
depends on the dealer
Wasnt a biggest aero advantages-1 position of rider and 2- helmet and only 3- skinsuit?
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but.... I didn’t see a power meter on that BTWIN.... is this test bogus?
What's the B TWIN BIKE MODEL and where to get it in USA
Should of done road bike vs road bike. Much of the speed gain was from the aero position and not the gear. Try again please.
The most interesting data was not explored: how many watts would it take to maintain 43 km/h on the cheap bike? (That is: how many "equivalent-watts" money can buy).
On average, a 'wrap' of speed can cost between $8 and $12.
id be interested to see the comparison of both set ups ridden by a novice
whats the name of the btwin?
I am wondering if there is some paid campaign for B twin road bikes on the internet. I don´t see anything good on their road bikes,they are not cheaper in equipment, or better than concurence, And my eyes were opened when seeing that last year models on the street are looking as 7 years old :)
Do you get to keep the change?
Are you tryna match those two power out put? Then my next question is I'm sure if u compare the two u will save at least 20% more energy
I dream about an electro Time Trial.
That would be very efficient, with 500 W. You can drive 45 km/h a long time.
great video
i find these independent tests really interesting, companys force aero down your neck these days, who knows what to believe any more? i would love to see the difference between a kask bambino and a kask mojito in a test like this
Very cool explanations sir. Then I heard the costs and went 😦😧😳🥺
i can buy a few grams if i go to my local dealer
The fancy stuff really do make a difference when you ride long distances but only if you're well trained. Although obviously the fancy bike in this film is not the right type of fancy for the courses with hills.
I want to see expensive bike vs complete aero