13:43 I hope by this point he noticed the pads layout is NOT the same. some stuff swapped around. 19:35 oh no he didnt. sending prayers for a 0 ohm in the wrong spot.
Yea I had to look 3 or 4 times after reading this comment before I spotted it. Monstrously subtle difference. I assumed it was in-circuit readings throwing things off, and the damaged components. The question is then, why did it still work 🤔 Maybe those two are both just pull resistors, and the signal works just fine either way?
i went through the boardview and still no clue what that opamp is doing. the one u bridged maybe goes to 1.8V supply maybe nowhere . depending if a certain jumper is present@@Adamant_IT the one that has 500 ohm instead of 0 goes also to 1.8V but through a "programmable DAC" NCT3933U
@@Nebbia_affaraccimiei Yea, the swapped resistors don't appear to connect anything that sinks current, so no harm done. But that DAC might not be doing it's job. Hard to tell what that job is though, given that everything appears to be working.
You asked if anyone knew what that section of the board was for; the AS358M integrated circuit that those components were connected to is an op amp, and given it's proximity to the PCIe slot, is probably conditioning data going to whatever is plugged into that slot, in this case, a graphics card. Hope that helps!
Hi Graham, still can't thank you enough for saving my bacon so to speak. As some have commented, my gpu is rather large an MSI RTX 3060ti Trio. I could reach the latch with fingers but it was stuck fast and out of desperation stupidly resorted to a Mac Tools posidrive. The upsides of this fiasco are A , I'm not the only one and B, I get to watch a successful repair. Many many thanks Graham, you're a star 🌟🥇🏅🏅
Pro tip: You can easily tell what that circuit basically does without a schematic. The 8 pin chip has 358 on it so it's a copy of a LM358 dual operational amplifier. The large cap is simply a decoupling cap tied between vcc and gnd so any nominal decoupling cap can be used (i.e. 0.1uF). The 4.7k resistor is part of a comparitor or voltage reference and the other side of the resistor should feed back into one of the input pins on that same chip. It's nothing special and highly likely any nominal resistor could be used, like 2.2k, 10k etc and it would probably work. Next time this happens look for common chips near the damage and look up the datasheet to see what it does. Often datasheets will have a reference circuit and a lot of the time those reference circuits are used as-is on other products. Alternatively find any similar motherboard schematic that is using a LM358 and the circuit there could be very similar.
If I read the IC's marking correctly, it's an AS358M which is a jellybean dual OP-Amp. That checks out with the top right 100nF capacitor acting as a bypass cap from VCC to ground. As to what the section does - no idea. Since you said the board was originally stuck at POST code 00, it could have something to do with power monitoring to keep the board in reset until some rails have stabilized.
Good tip for opening graphics cards clip wen rmoving them, Use a pencil with a rubber on the end and use the rubber end to open the clip, if you slip you shouldn't damage anything, also dont pull on the graphics card until the clip is fully depressed, meaning all the way back, id you pull on the card too soon this means you're adding pressure to the clip making it harder to push open, Great content as aslway, keep up the great work :).
Checking the datasheet of the IC next to the zone you fixed might give some hints on what this section of the board is doing. I could not capture the exact PN, but it looks like its "something-something"5358M"something", which does not give any plausible results to what this IC is.
I use a plastic spudger for this very reason to get stubborn or hard to reach PCI-E latches to release. My new motherboard has addressed this problem (Asus ProArt X670E) - it has a button near the outermost dimm slot that engages a fancy mechanism that releases the GPU. No more screwdrivers/spudgers!
So the shematic of this board says the big cap is a MLCC 0.1UF/16V (0603). The resistor next to it is RES 4.7K OHM 1/10W(0603) between ground and P_1V8. The next damaged Resistor is a RES 0 OHM 1/16W(0402)JUMP. The 500 ohm resistor is correct RES 499 OHM 1/16W (0402). The small cap at the bottom off the list is a MLCC 0.1UF/16V (0201). Well done without an shematic.
if you look closely both boards have swapped 500 and 0 ohm resistors. They are on the same spot on the motherboard, but traces lead to different spots (and they go to matching vias in the end). That's why measurement's on both boards do not match
Very interesting video Graham thanks for sharing! since these components are taken from a laptop and this Ic is defined as a low power dual op amp in the datasheet I believe the power rating of the resistors and the voltage rating of the caps are also good enough.
Bought an Intel E version of this one so I can get into the fixing side of the house. Great video brother and gives me an idea of where to look once I get it
I have had to do this, on occasion, however, I am always careful, and never, ever use a screwdriver. Always use a soft (ish) thin wooden art brush handle. So far, so good.
Isn't it funny how a day after i also damaged my mobo in a similar fashion, i get this video in my feed? 😂 Yesterday i replaced my CPU and after i was done with the CPU cooler, when i tried to screw in the GPU i dropped the screwdriver(a pretty heavy one) on the motherboard, which left a pretty big scratch around the area of the sound chip, like a 1 cm scratch. Thankfully everything works fine so far.
Hello Graham, a resistor on the damaged motherboard was specifically giving a value of 500 ohms, but the undamaged one on the board motherboard gave a value of 0 ohms , I didn't quite understand why. I'm trying to improve myself in motherboard repair, so I'd appreciate it if you could answer.
Back in the day I put nasty gouges in a few boards and/or knocked components off them when installing/removing/adjusting CPU coolers. This was back in the socket 7 days when heatsinks were affixed directly to the sockets using spring loaded metal bars. You’d need to use a screwdriver to lever them on and off, and they were under significant tension too, so it was ridiculously easy, if you weren’t careful, for the screwdriver to slip out and put nasty gouges in the areas of the board near the CPU socket. Which were usually filled with really tiny delicate traces and/or surface mounted components. This was long before I had the skills or equipment to perform repairs like this, so those boards were basically write offs. Sad, but you live and you learn.
It might also help when no schematic to check the datasheet of that chip, look for a typical application and compare to what is on the board. Any maybe be careful with assuming "0 ohm resistor" with unmarked components. Might be a (small) inductor as well (which in fact IS a low-resistance wire in DC mode), so check inductance as well probably.
i got a similar situation with a Sound Blaster ZX Sound card with 4 or 5 rusted eaten up components ... and eagerly looking for a microsoldering expert in my Area....
One tiny note. Min 13-14 when you desoldered the components. İn my view, you'd better wait for that area of the mainboard to get somewhat colder first, then measure resistance. Temperature has an impact on the resistance.
I've got a ROG Maximus XI board with a three fan RTX 3050 GPU and a quite large Cooler Master CPU cooler and yes, it is a chore getting one's fingers in there to release that latch. Using sharp objects to get in there is not a good idea, however.
Graham, do you have a link to where you get your flux and the dispenser you use from? Also, would you be interested in diagnosing and repairing a similar mobo: the Asus ROG STRIX B550-F.
Flux Syringe Needles can be found on ebay, and they'll fit pretty much any flux that comes in a syringe. Something similar to this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134585975437
As for another mobo, if there's a known-fault I could take a swing at it - but I'm not good on diagnostics with ATX boards. This one was an easy win because of the visual damage.
have a question I have a mossfet that I want to change that had three pads or I'm sorry four pads on it to connect when I took the old one off now I've got one pad and a Big Blob across the other part I use a solder Wick took all the solder off but it's still a big long blob did I ruin something not real good at doing this
talking about board repair, is it posible to use one of the cables of a cat5e cable to repair a trace on a motherboard? just wondering, i have an am3 board that got damaged when client decided to repaste the cpu. but instead of repair we update all the platform instead.
I'm assuming you mean the strands, the wire itself will be way too thick. I'd get some enamel wire (aka magnet wire) though if you can, as it has insulation, so is less exposed than a bare strand.
Oh I hate those GPU ejector things. It's near impossible to get to, and they hurt the finger when you're trying to press them down. They really need to re-evaluate & improve its design. Seems we're all trying to press it down with screw drivers.
Probably not. Decent AM4 mobos like this still go for £150+ though, so it was worth doing. That being said, the cost is in Time, so while it might not be worth paying someone else's time to fix a mobo, your time is 'free' so to speak.
I use a wooden pencil for this task. Much safer than screwdriver. I have the B550 version of this board. Modern GPU's are so awkward to work with. You have to be ultra careful with them. They weigh a ton, and you cannot get at the motherboard once they are slotted-in. Note, make sure the pencil has either rubber at the end, or just plain wood...
See, there's like 75-80% left of that first capacitor. You could have just measured it's capacitance and divided the result by 0.8 to get the full rating. It works, trust me, bro. I've got a diploma somewhere! For something!
When adding the parts back to the board, I think it's easier to use Mr. Solderfix's technique of leaving the pads flat and using a soldering iron to solder one end first. That way there is no risk of blowing the parts off the board, and you can fine tune the position of each part before soldering the other end. See ua-cam.com/video/irW5Whm0BVs/v-deo.html
I found my iron tips were just too big for doing this on 0402 and smaller, but I do have a new iron now, with a nice small J-tip, so I should try that again 👌
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13:43 I hope by this point he noticed the pads layout is NOT the same. some stuff swapped around. 19:35 oh no he didnt. sending prayers for a 0 ohm in the wrong spot.
Oh wow, good catch!
Yea I had to look 3 or 4 times after reading this comment before I spotted it. Monstrously subtle difference. I assumed it was in-circuit readings throwing things off, and the damaged components.
The question is then, why did it still work 🤔
Maybe those two are both just pull resistors, and the signal works just fine either way?
i went through the boardview and still no clue what that opamp is doing. the one u bridged maybe goes to 1.8V supply maybe nowhere . depending if a certain jumper is present@@Adamant_IT the one that has 500 ohm instead of 0 goes also to 1.8V but through a "programmable DAC" NCT3933U
@@Nebbia_affaraccimiei Yea, the swapped resistors don't appear to connect anything that sinks current, so no harm done. But that DAC might not be doing it's job. Hard to tell what that job is though, given that everything appears to be working.
You asked if anyone knew what that section of the board was for; the AS358M integrated circuit that those components were connected to is an op amp, and given it's proximity to the PCIe slot, is probably conditioning data going to whatever is plugged into that slot, in this case, a graphics card. Hope that helps!
Hi Graham, still can't thank you enough for saving my bacon so to speak. As some have commented, my gpu is rather large an MSI RTX 3060ti Trio. I could reach the latch with fingers but it was stuck fast and out of desperation stupidly resorted to a Mac Tools posidrive. The upsides of this fiasco are A , I'm not the only one and B, I get to watch a successful repair.
Many many thanks Graham, you're a star 🌟🥇🏅🏅
Pro tip: You can easily tell what that circuit basically does without a schematic. The 8 pin chip has 358 on it so it's a copy of a LM358 dual operational amplifier. The large cap is simply a decoupling cap tied between vcc and gnd so any nominal decoupling cap can be used (i.e. 0.1uF). The 4.7k resistor is part of a comparitor or voltage reference and the other side of the resistor should feed back into one of the input pins on that same chip. It's nothing special and highly likely any nominal resistor could be used, like 2.2k, 10k etc and it would probably work. Next time this happens look for common chips near the damage and look up the datasheet to see what it does. Often datasheets will have a reference circuit and a lot of the time those reference circuits are used as-is on other products. Alternatively find any similar motherboard schematic that is using a LM358 and the circuit there could be very similar.
i use a wood chopstick instead of screwdrivers, less risk of surface damage
@@hugomatos1999that's smart
Great repair. To reduce the chance of damage when depressing that tab, use a chopstick. Or a pencil - use the end with the rubber.
Not just a steady hand needed to replace those small components but also the patience of a saint.
And a damned good magnifying lens.
its called a microscope@@williamjones4483
If I read the IC's marking correctly, it's an AS358M which is a jellybean dual OP-Amp. That checks out with the top right 100nF capacitor acting as a bypass cap from VCC to ground.
As to what the section does - no idea. Since you said the board was originally stuck at POST code 00, it could have something to do with power monitoring to keep the board in reset until some rails have stabilized.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge. I'm a ham hobbyist and love these videos.
Good tip for opening graphics cards clip wen rmoving them, Use a pencil with a rubber on the end and use the rubber end to open the clip, if you slip you shouldn't damage anything, also dont pull on the graphics card until the clip is fully depressed, meaning all the way back, id you pull on the card too soon this means you're adding pressure to the clip making it harder to push open, Great content as aslway, keep up the great work :).
I see the boardview is available and opening it with Boardviewer (not flexBV or openboard) gives you the part values
Checking the datasheet of the IC next to the zone you fixed might give some hints on what this section of the board is doing.
I could not capture the exact PN, but it looks like its "something-something"5358M"something", which does not give any plausible results to what this IC is.
from boardview its a dual opamp AS358 . has to do with the 1.8V rail
I use a plastic spudger for this very reason to get stubborn or hard to reach PCI-E latches to release. My new motherboard has addressed this problem (Asus ProArt X670E) - it has a button near the outermost dimm slot that engages a fancy mechanism that releases the GPU. No more screwdrivers/spudgers!
I use a plastic or wooden chopstick as a finger extension to remove awkward PCI cards.
seems to be setup as a dc low pass filter, with one output going back to the input through a small capacitor
It's always great when you have another device you can compare things to!
So the shematic of this board says the big cap is a MLCC 0.1UF/16V (0603). The resistor next to it is RES 4.7K OHM 1/10W(0603) between ground and P_1V8. The next damaged Resistor is a RES 0 OHM 1/16W(0402)JUMP. The 500 ohm resistor is correct RES 499 OHM 1/16W (0402). The small cap at the bottom off the list is a MLCC 0.1UF/16V (0201). Well done without an shematic.
The 1.8V is for the CPU and prevents CPU init. without it eg. reading 00 on post codes.
if you look closely both boards have swapped 500 and 0 ohm resistors. They are on the same spot on the motherboard, but traces lead to different spots (and they go to matching vias in the end). That's why measurement's on both boards do not match
I wonder why they decided to use an 0603 size for that 100nF cap. 🤔
Very interesting video Graham thanks for sharing! since these components are taken from a laptop and this Ic is defined as a low power dual op amp in the datasheet I believe the power rating of the resistors and the voltage rating of the caps are also good enough.
Bought an Intel E version of this one so I can get into the fixing side of the house. Great video brother and gives me an idea of where to look once I get it
It's a great board. I have one myself. Never had a bit of trouble from it.
Great work Graham as always. Thanks for the video.
Great fix thanks
I have had to do this, on occasion, however, I am always careful, and never, ever use a screwdriver. Always use a soft (ish) thin wooden art brush handle. So far, so good.
Well done. That was tricky
Done it a few times but always been lucky not to damage board.. BTW Thanks Graham!!!!
10:45 - That is a 0 OHM resistor, it would be advisable to replace it, not link it, as it is 1.8v and a circuit protection for PU1501.
Nice to see I am not the only one with Air Borne components LOL nice recall.
Don't forget the common third type of passive component... the inductor, which can read like a very low value resistor.
Enjoying your videos...
Hi Graham. How much would you charge for a repair like that? Good to know if I damage a board in future and can send it to you for repair.
Isn't it funny how a day after i also damaged my mobo in a similar fashion, i get this video in my feed? 😂
Yesterday i replaced my CPU and after i was done with the CPU cooler, when i tried to screw in the GPU i dropped the screwdriver(a pretty heavy one) on the motherboard, which left a pretty big scratch around the area of the sound chip, like a 1 cm scratch. Thankfully everything works fine so far.
Nicely done!
Hello Graham, a resistor on the damaged motherboard was specifically giving a value of 500 ohms, but the undamaged one on the board motherboard gave a value of 0 ohms , I didn't quite understand why. I'm trying to improve myself in motherboard repair, so I'd appreciate it if you could answer.
notice the pads dont go in the same place, these 2 components are swapped
Back in the day I put nasty gouges in a few boards and/or knocked components off them when installing/removing/adjusting CPU coolers. This was back in the socket 7 days when heatsinks were affixed directly to the sockets using spring loaded metal bars. You’d need to use a screwdriver to lever them on and off, and they were under significant tension too, so it was ridiculously easy, if you weren’t careful, for the screwdriver to slip out and put nasty gouges in the areas of the board near the CPU socket. Which were usually filled with really tiny delicate traces and/or surface mounted components. This was long before I had the skills or equipment to perform repairs like this, so those boards were basically write offs. Sad, but you live and you learn.
It might also help when no schematic to check the datasheet of that chip, look for a typical application and compare to what is on the board. Any maybe be careful with assuming "0 ohm resistor" with unmarked components. Might be a (small) inductor as well (which in fact IS a low-resistance wire in DC mode), so check inductance as well probably.
Are you looking at eventually getting test bench for motherboards if you get more motherboard repairs into your shop?
I actually already have one, but I didn't use it in this video because I'd already opened up a demo PC to borrow its motherboard.
i got a similar situation with a Sound Blaster ZX Sound card with 4 or 5 rusted eaten up components ... and eagerly looking for a microsoldering expert in my Area....
Wooden chopstick is what I use to get graphics cards out with that release lever.
Great fix
One tiny note. Min 13-14 when you desoldered the components. İn my view, you'd better wait for that area of the mainboard to get somewhat colder first, then measure resistance. Temperature has an impact on the resistance.
Damn I've done the screwdriver thing more than once but it's also so sketchy.
Another fine job done.
I've got a ROG Maximus XI board with a three fan RTX 3050 GPU and a quite large Cooler Master CPU cooler and yes, it is a chore getting one's fingers in there to release that latch. Using sharp objects to get in there is not a good idea, however.
Graham, do you have a link to where you get your flux and the dispenser you use from? Also, would you be interested in diagnosing and repairing a similar mobo: the Asus ROG STRIX B550-F.
Flux Syringe Needles can be found on ebay, and they'll fit pretty much any flux that comes in a syringe. Something similar to this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134585975437
As for another mobo, if there's a known-fault I could take a swing at it - but I'm not good on diagnostics with ATX boards. This one was an easy win because of the visual damage.
@@Adamant_IT Well if you'd like to take a look at it, I'd be happy to send it down and pay for your time.
have a question I have a mossfet that I want to change that had three pads or I'm sorry four pads on it to connect when I took the old one off now I've got one pad and a Big Blob across the other part I use a solder Wick took all the solder off but it's still a big long blob did I ruin something not real good at doing this
How to reach out to you for repairs?
For anyone who hasn't tried surface mount soldering, some of those components are tiny tiny. And yeah, many are lost in the air flow.
talking about board repair, is it posible to use one of the cables of a cat5e cable to repair a trace on a motherboard? just wondering, i have an am3 board that got damaged when client decided to repaste the cpu. but instead of repair we update all the platform instead.
I'm assuming you mean the strands, the wire itself will be way too thick. I'd get some enamel wire (aka magnet wire) though if you can, as it has insulation, so is less exposed than a bare strand.
Nice save
Ah yes the screwdriver to push the release. Done it, glad I haven't slipped up like that.
cool video Graham
Oh I hate those GPU ejector things. It's near impossible to get to, and they hurt the finger when you're trying to press them down. They really need to re-evaluate & improve its design. Seems we're all trying to press it down with screw drivers.
That will ruin your day. Did the same thing but missed vital components. Since i use a plastic pry tool
Fascinating, is a repair like this cost-effective on 'lesser' MB's?
Probably not. Decent AM4 mobos like this still go for £150+ though, so it was worth doing.
That being said, the cost is in Time, so while it might not be worth paying someone else's time to fix a mobo, your time is 'free' so to speak.
I've become weary of using the screwdriver to remove them so I ended up buying a set of chopsticks specifically for that
Fascinating
If I have that problem I use a cotton bud to push it, I'd never even think to use a screwdriver to risky
I use a wooden pencil for this task. Much safer than screwdriver. I have the B550 version of this board.
Modern GPU's are so awkward to work with. You have to be ultra careful with them. They weigh a ton, and you cannot get at the motherboard once they are slotted-in.
Note, make sure the pencil has either rubber at the end, or just plain wood...
I would think it almost has to be pcie slot power, doesn't it?
See, there's like 75-80% left of that first capacitor. You could have just measured it's capacitance and divided the result by 0.8 to get the full rating.
It works, trust me, bro. I've got a diploma somewhere! For something!
Nice job Graham
hi iv got a motherboard i did something on the same line could u help please
people need to start using a pencil eraser end.. hopefully new so sharp end dont poke your hand.
i like ur video thanks for this
When adding the parts back to the board, I think it's easier to use Mr. Solderfix's technique of leaving the pads flat and using a soldering iron to solder one end first. That way there is no risk of blowing the parts off the board, and you can fine tune the position of each part before soldering the other end. See ua-cam.com/video/irW5Whm0BVs/v-deo.html
I found my iron tips were just too big for doing this on 0402 and smaller, but I do have a new iron now, with a nice small J-tip, so I should try that again 👌
Mr. Solderfix makes it look so easy. It's never as simple when I try!@@Adamant_IT
Dear Adamant IT. I bought iMac 2019 and I didn't format it directly but after one year when I wanted to sell it, I formatted and it appeared that its firmware password is locked and the seller is not responding. Can you help me in opening it Please? I have a proof of legal purchase from Ebay. I am from UK
If YT paid us viewers to read the comments I would already be a millionaire ...
Man , your skills at soldering and heater using is awful.
Get a good quality tools bro