Zelda 2 Makes Me Genuinely Unhappy and I Hate it
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- Опубліковано 22 кві 2020
- Today on Game Over Analysis, we talk about Zelda 2, the divisive black sheep of the Zelda series, and a game that I ended up absolutely despising. It's not fun.
I have a Twitter: / ceegans
Zelda 2 footage from Retrogame.Stream - Ігри
Nintendo made their old school games cryptic on purpose to 1: make the game feel longer, 2: have a reason to sell Nintendo Power magazine
My friends and I all had Nintendo Power. We definitely learned all the ways around the cryptic parts due to it.
Nintendo is a Japanese company, and I can assure that they didn't give a rats ass about their Western audience when they designed their games in the 80s.
@@snetmotnosrorb3946 Nintendo Power Magazine was a combined production between Nintendo and Japanese publiser Tokuma Shoten, who published Family Computer Magazine for the Japanese NES, most of what Nintendo Power had was already been published overseas, so it's not all about the western audience.
@@snetmotnosrorb3946 That's why they didn't launch the Japanese Super Mario II in the West..........
John PS Pretty sure that was Howard Lincoln’s decision actually, as he playtested a lot of games that they sent him piecemeal from Japan and he made the final call.
I’m also inclined to believe this was the standard course of action, as it gels with Yamauchi’s unilateral approach to video games. As the President of Nintendo wasn’t a fan of video games himself, he trusted only his own instincts on what would actually be released on the system, and from little but intuition.
So a stack of games was just that to his leadership style; a stack of games. So that naturally leads to this idea that he would just have them sent off to international distributors, seeing as he had already made the decision of production himself, so he likely saw his job as done.
"if all else fails, use fire" thanks zelda 2, now i know what to do when my application for a job is rejected!
@TurboCMinusMinus 2020 feels like Majora's Mask
Fun Fact. Certain enemies only being killable by fire was exclusive to the US and PAL release. In the original Japanese release, fire does pretty much nothing. In fact, the enemies that could only be killed by it in the US/PAL version are immune to it.
@@andrew1435 oh wow
Yeah, burn your resume and make a better one.
@@Kryxx07 what do i put on my resume to get a job if i have no job experience, i'm still in highschool, and i have absolutely zero skills in doing anything worth while.
Every one I heard mention the "'I can restore your health' lady" joke also the old woman and they maintain the notion that Link is getting his freak on in both instances.
8:00 The town with the bridge has a house were there's a sleeping blob. Talking to it three times will trigger a dialoge which goes something like "let me alone, you can find my master in the forest north of the road".
Theres also a random npc walking around town for the girl looking for her mirror that will say "Mirror Under Table"
Its still garbage tho
And what's up with my name is error line lol.
@@mikekromer2669 Later in the game Bagu tells you to bring a letter to his brother Error
@@Totallygeekdom just your opinion. I hate turn base games and 1st person shooters. And call them trash. But others love them games. It's all about taste. And if you still want to call it trash maybe you suck and your gaming skills are trash lol
I got this in my recommendations. It was a bit hard to watch since, personally, I really liked Zelda 2 when I played through it. A lot of the stuff you said though is completely valid though, especially the death mountain part lol it took me hours to get passed it. But I guess the frustration of having to fight very strong enemies and the feeling of being overwhelmed were things that I liked, it kinda feels nice when the main character struggles through their journey especially the beginning because like, link is just a kid and he’s going up against pretty much an army on his own. Also having played Zelda 1 so much and learning many of the hidden things in that game, it kinda made finding stuff easier in Zelda 2, at least that’s how I felt. The main problems I had were that one place you have to open by using a specific spell at a certain place and that one area where you have to get the child. Good video though! We may not necessarily agree but it was still fun to watch, I’m glad UA-cam recommended me this video
I'm honestly glad you were able to sit through it. I always feel a bit bad when I listen to someone who thoroughly hates something I love. (Though I'll listen anyways just to get more perspective on things. It's why I now have a much better understanding on why people don't like Super Mario Sunshine as much as me for example.)
Regardless though, I completely understand why you enjoyed the game. There's definitely an appeal to a game that beats you down so mercilessly and tells you to get good or go home. That's just not my kind of thing. (I also must admit that I'm uh... Not the biggest fan of the console it's on to begin with.) Regardless I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I spent a lot of time trying to make the video good. Even if I personally didn't jive with it, it still deserves a thorough lookover. =D
@@DuoStuff It's so weird, isn't it? I like to say that having your own opinions is completely fine but I still feel bad when I hear someone trashing something I like. idk, human nature I guess.
I felt like that when I was watching the Game Grumps play Sonic adventure 1, but it was funny though
Totally agree with you bro... I loved this game when I was a kid, that 1 town with the rising spell cave and falling down in the Maze to get the 7th bottle was probably the hardest things for me, and when maxing out my stats made the game easy, that last palace brought it back home for me
Hours to get passed death mountain....Hours? Are you serious?
Zelda II is one of the most unfairly hated games of all time.
Its cause they are weak fakgots
That is true, but I feel this guy hates it fairly, and I wouldn't lump him in with all the other haters.
@@MogofWar hes like these other bitch new gamers. If you can't easily beat it then it sucks. This game is hard as shit. But that doesn't mean it's bad. It actually set a big standard setter for future zelda games.
@@The_Bad_Guy. Not just that, unlike most haters of Zelda 2, he at least acknowledged the good parts of it, even though it's outshadowed by the many, many, flaws. Kinda like my hate for Paper Mario Color Splash I guess. I admit it had funny writing, which was good, but the battle system was still heavily flawed and was basically a clone from the previous game for the battle system. Let this be a reminder that no game is perfect, there's always a flaw in each game of various degrees of size, no matter how good or how bad a game is.
@@zigazav1
he's still a weak bitch like all the others.
fuck them!
I still don’t know why the heck Link’s face is so much bigger than everybody else’s face
hahahah, I never noticed that XD
Because he's the hero and all the NPCs look a lot alike.
Or why the tables and chairs in the houses are giant
i may be wrong, but apparently Miyamoto claims that this is the only bad Zelda game that he has ever made
No he says it is "sort of a failure" not a complete one
It still made a ton of money. A TON.
@@russellharrell2747 true
Thats not a fun fact at all, its quite upsetting tbh
No matter how logical that is, somebody here is still gonna say “BuT hAhA wHaT aBoUT SkYWarD sWoRD???”
A lot of this game feels like when you stray realllllyyyyy far from where you're supposed to be in a fallout game and end up fighting super op shit LOL
Yep, but the difference is in Zelda 2, that IS where you're supposed to be. XD
I agree, kind of
I've always found Zelda II to be one of NES games that's aged reasonably well. I've also got a rule where if I could beat a game when I was 9 years old and UA-camrs are complaining about it 30 years later...
Seriously, the game's tough but hardly unbeatable and I have plenty of good memories of me and my friends working our way through it.
I mean the guy didn't say it was unbeatable. He beat the game himself. He just didn't have fun beating it because of all the bullshit the game puts you through. I failed to beat the game as a kid, but came back as an adult and beat it and it just wouldn't let me enjoy my victory.
Overcoming difficulty are the most memorable gaming moments. Being guided through games barely thinking are games I don't remember.
@@cmdrfunk I'll give you that Zelda II ended up being memorable. But for a lot of us, its memorable in that it will remind us to never touch this game again.
The thing with Zelda 1 is that it had the honor of being something that had never been done at the time. If you just compared the game to what existed at the time it came out you might better understand why it was so well loved.
This reviewer lacks the ability to even think of these games on that level....because it's something he CAN'T know. He wasn't there....and apparently he doesn't know anyone who was there. lol
He uses terms like AI when discussing enemies in original NES games. ....and he acts as if guys had the ability to design full blown 3D games w/ open worlds & 87 different game mechanics on the NES. Game carts that're so small you can legitimately put the console's 1,000+ library of games, homebrews & hacks onto a single CD-r. I genuinely don't know wtf this little boy is expecting when he plays these games. Does he think Zelda 2 should morph into Dark Souls or Skyrim upon entering Death Mountain? Does he not realize these ppl were doing things that had NEVER been done before?
Is this boy capable of critical thought at all?
He doesn't have a fuckin' clue what he's talking about....and it's obvious. He's not gonna have a large following on youtube, so it doesn't matter. This isn't good content & it doesn't deserve the handful of viewers it does have.
It technically had been done before (an Atari game did it), just with way more limitations of course.
I'm not sure "it was first" is an adequate defense. Many of the trendsetting games from the 80s and early 90s lacked direction. "Here's a world, now go explore". Zelda 2 is better in this respect, but still pretty garbage. Some games lead you through the world design, others try to lead you through dialog and events. Some masterful examples do both. Let's take your first visit to Zora's Domain in Ocarina of Time as a prime example. The way they designed that level along with the events in it naturally lead you to the letter in a bottle found in Lake Hylia.
@@dizzle1119 damn dude u really stan zelda2
@@stephenh8225 No, not really. I would have made the same argument if this had been a half dozen other games. The guy was acting as if an NES game from like 1987 should have been designed the way a game was designed in 2020. I was spot on.
7:55 This is technically not true. In one home in Saria town, there is a slime sleeping on a bench. Talk to him a few times and he'll say something like "master is in woods up North". Most things are just a matter of trial and error (though finding the mirror under the table is just retarded. I don't know how I managed to figure that out). Also, the reason the game is so cryptic is due to limited space in the speech bubbles. You can convey far more with Japanese characters than English text, so the translation had to be very bare-bones to still get the message through.
I agree that it's not the best game in the series, but I've warmed up to it over the years, so I don't hate it, either.
The translation is still bad.
Also in that forest where Bagu is, there's a few random spots where when you step into them it takes you to a side scrolling screen. I actually remember first stumbling upon those areas as a kid and getting the hint that something was special there and continued to look around and found Bagu.
I got this game for my birthday when I was like 6. By this time i already had a link to the past so i was pretty excited to try it. It ended up being this thing in my life that I would pick up for a weekend every 6 months and make *some* progress every time. I think you said it best though, it just wasn't fun. eventually you hit a point where you just dont know where to go and its like....ok i guess im going to stop now. lol
EDIT: the worst part, the absolute worst part. is that after seeing your video i actually want to play it again.
I beat Zelda II when I was ten years old. To this day my cartridge still has the original save file.
That said, I don't really ever get the urge to play it anymore.
I can't imagine hating such a masterpiece. The feel of the movement and combat is so incredible that I can easily forgive the linearity and the more poorly handled secrets. And the challenge level is damn near ideal. A solid 5-6/10 in that regard. Be patient, practice, and you'll be fine. Games aren't supposed to just roll over and let you have you way with them immediately, after all. Play Battle of Olympus if you want to know what an actual punishingly hard version of this would be like.
There's a difference between "games shouldn't roll over for you" and "game kicks you down to the point you despite it". I played this game as a kid and never got passed the 2nd dungeon and couldn't stand the constant trek back there. I replayed it on Switch a few months back and abused the hell out of the Save States and despite beating the game, I still hated it, but for new reasons that my kid self didn't get to experience. This is a game that allows you to go to the final dungeon and get you stuck on the 2nd to last boss because it turns out you didn't get the stupid spell required to beat it. A game with so much obnoxious trial and error that anytime I come close to praising someting, a new wave of bullshit happens.
Saying there are worst games doesn't make this one good. Once you know everything and replay it, maybe the game becomes fun because it can't surprise you anymore and you can focus on improving your runs, but I'd rather just never pick it up ever again.
This game is not bad, but it's far from masterpiece. Hard games are fun, but cryptic bullshit games aren't.
@@Teknanam Never passed the 2nd Dungeon... Bahahahaha!! Lack of skill and understanding right there... Battletoads NES is hard, this game was easy by comparison
@@MrJamesieBoye "get gud scrub". Yeah yeah you're so hardcore. Did you not read the part where I said I beat the game? Last I checked, Battletoads wouldn't let you go all the way to a boss just to reveal you don't have the item to beat it and after quitting or losing all your haves lives, being forced to backtrack and talking to every NPC for a vague hint of this item's location.
@@Teknanam Nah... I couldn't read that part, as for some reason your comments don't expand, just like the comment I'm replying to now... will not expand, cuts out mid sentence so can't read what you said about battletoads cause it cuts mid sentence
I love this game. It's always been a favorite of mine. To each his/her own.
And the Soundtrack. OMG! Sooo good!
Top sound track on NES in my opinion and one of my top 3 NES games to go back to, more then the first one. People hate on it because it’s not like other zeldas but at the time it just wasn’t like the first zelda
Same ^^
Matthew Flynn Facts about the soundtrack; possibly my fav video game soundtrack ever 🔥
I love this game, the challenge, the autonomy in choosing what skill I level up (very ahead of its time in 1989), the gameplay, discovering secrets, the music, the atmosphere, etc. I understand the gripes of the person who made this video but I think many of the points he made added to the satisfaction I received once I beat the game. I am old enough to have played it when it first came out so I know nostalgia needs to be factored in but I loved it back then too. Good video though as it makes me want to play it again soon!
7:55 The little blip blob thingy in one of the houses tells you his master is in the woods to the north of town. So you are given a clue.
There was such a great social aspect to this game end it reminds me of the excitement that you felt on being the first in your circle of friends to figure out the Blood code or a Mortal Kombat fatality. So many things won’t be relatable to those who never got to experience a time without the Internet. I remember spending hours trying so many random things in those games just to see what would happen. Somehow the modern world has greatly eroded my tenacity and persistence for such things. I am glad that you made the video.
8:57
"We don't want people beating our Five hour game in Five hours!"
This is my new favourite quote on the subject of padding from now on.
Thank you, I liked that one too. =D
@@DuoStuff Also, while you're here;
If you want to try out a MUCH less frustrating version of this game, I highly recommend a flash game called Chibi Knight (link below). It took most of its inspiration from Zelda 2, and despite only taking about 20 minutes to complete, generally proves to be a WAY more enjoyable experience for a casual play through. Also its adorable.
armorgames.com/play/5249/chibi-knight (Link to play it on armor games)
Death Mountain isn't that difficult once you realize duck+attack is a faster attack. For an NES game there is quite a bit of nuance to the combat system really. The game tries to clue you in on this through the level design. 14:09 shows one of the Death Mountain caves with ledges that block the axe guys, encouraging the player to duck+attack them. Unfortunately, subtle nuances are often missed by players, which is why modern games just blatantly tell you how to do everything, even if it's obvious.
always gotta dumb everything down for the lowest common denominator
Back when this came out, everybody was playing it. The pool of games was much smaller and this was at the top of the heap. While I agree that things are too cryptic from a design standpoint, those secrets were so much more rewarding to solve with your friends. If you found a secret, your buddies were about to find out. Those secrets have stuck with me into adulthood. So much so, that I can dominate this game whenever I pick it up, even today. Long story short, if you're young you won't have the nostalgia and memories to know and appreciate this game. Cheers
That's kinda how I feel about growing up with the Nintendo DS. Everyone had one. You could meet a new group of people and everyone had Mario kart or some fun multiplayer game to share. There's NOTHING like what DS local multiplayer had then on the same scale today (even before the pandemic). I wish I coulda been there for the zelda II hype. Cheers!
7:55 (the whole rant) No, you are wrong. The game is not really that cryptic, the npcs literally tell you generally where things are. If you find these secret tiles so cryptic, it's because you didn't talk to the townsfolk.
I beat it before the internet, which means no hints... It's really not that bad
@@NM-zq5tf Ya the only thing I really get tripped on up, is having to go back with the hammer to break up a rock blocking a cave you walk by early on.
I suppose I could see maybe having to cast Spell, the npc hint for that one isn't the clearest..
Yeah, this kid grew up after the playground was your source of answers for games. I loved Zelda 2 when it came out and I finished it without a guide.
I can't fault him for being born a long time after I was but I don't feel his rage aimed at "bad game design" when this was great game design in its day. He's played games that learned from the mistakes of the past andhad hardware that could handle more complex design. My kids hate retro games and I don't blame them. Old games are hard and the graphics and sound suck compared to modern games. The localization could be truly terrible and it hurt games. Even I prefer to play newer games.
But you can't go and fairly judge the past by the standards of today. You can appreciate how things have gotten better, just remember that what we had in the past WAS oftentimes the best available.
Castlevania Medusa Heads: Who are you?
Ninja Gaiden Birds: I'm you but stronger.
Zelda II Pony Heads: Hold my beer.
I wanted to mention how good you're editing has been! it's nice to finally see a review that's not just being aggressively negative, even when you dislike it, and not making the same critiques and jokes everyone else already has. Zelda II is the only game in the series I seriously struggle to play. Like, I don't love the DS games, but they're more just boring, and at least they don't actively make me want to turn off the console or wish I was playing something else. They'd really have to make a masterpiece to forgive this games faults.... oh wait.
First: I am so glad you noticed the editing. I've really been trying to up my game with the past chunk of videos, so I really appreciate when someone notices.
Second: Yeah it was a real struggle to get through. There were legit several points where I wanted to give up, but I didn't think that'd be fair to it. If I'm going to give it a video, the least I can do is experience all of it. Though I disagree with the DS games being boring, but that's mostly because I really liked Spirit Tracks. (Phantom Hourglass is a different story.) XD
Third: Yeah they certainly upped their game with the next one. Though, as you'll find out when I get to it, I've had an... Interesting experience with A Link to the Past... XD
@@DuoStuff Can't wait to see it! And everyone seems to really like Spirit Tracks. Maybe I should give it a second chance.
Yeah I think being associated with Phantom Hourglass made a lot of people skip over or not really enjoy Spirit Tracks. Taken on it's own, it's a pretty solid Zelda game.
Okay, you could talk about what makes some of the enemies absolutely infuriating. Some enemies steal xp when they hit you. Some steal magic. That's just cruel. The axe mongers later on that you cannot block are annoying, but they only steal your xp if they kill you.
The real world doesn't come with a player's guide or with explanations. It was the 90s, we weren't coddled.
Games aren't supposed to be like the real world. They're supposed to be fun.
@@DuoStuff just because it's hard doesn't mean it sucks. Typical new gamer though. Wanting it to be easy and to have unlimited continues and basically have your hand held to the end of the game. And if you fail then it's the games fault.
@Mike Werley He never said he wants the game to be super easy, have unlimited continues, and hold your hand until the end. Games can still be both hard and fun at the same time. A good hard game allows you to get up on your feet and learn the ropes before seriously challenging you. A bad hard game just makes you bang your head against the wall until you can brute force your way through. An example of a good hard game would be Donkey Kong Country. It starts off easy in the first world while teaching you the basic mechanics and giving room for error. Then the challenge goes up as the player’s skill goes up. Then when you finally finish the game, you get a feeling of satisfaction and feel like you really earned it. In Zelda 2, you just breathe a sign of relief that you were able to get through it at all. I don’t know about you but I prefer having a difficultly curve that steadily goes up rather than having to immediately climb a difficultly cliff in order to get good.
This showed up in my recommendations, and I did enjoy it. I never owned this game, as when I was a kid and played it at friend's houses, I thought it was absurdly hard. But back in the day, Miyamoto said some of the obscure hidden things were intended to get people talking to friends about where secrets were. There was no internet to look it up on, but I actually DID call the Nintendo hotline once. It's a thing!
But mostly, I kept watching because you quickly made it clear that you really like Super Paper Mario, and I absolutely love that game. I hope you make a video about that some time.
Did you notice that the bottom left corner of the Zelda 2 map is where ALL of Zelda 1 occurs?
I actually didn't. That's kind of wild.
It's a bit distorted, but I see it
I feel like I can kind of see it if I squint but it seems like a really weak resemblance.
Basically the overworld map from Zelda 2 has been ignored and North Hyrule and the eastern continent never appeared in later games.
I couldn't finish this game for these exact reasons amazing video Duo
Glad you enjoyed it regardless. =D
So I've been watching a couple of reviews of Zelda 2 in order to get multiple opinions and solutions for the game. Why? Well, I'm trying to remake the game from the ground up, keeping the mechanics, enemies, and aesthetics (updated to a 16-bit pallet, rather than 8) generally the same.
Just made this comment because this is a review for the game, and I'm trying to get a little bit of attention over it. Unfortunately, I have pretty much no idea how to code; that's the thing that I'm really struggling with at the moment. Computer code is a lot different than the old TI-83's...
I really enjoyed the review, by the way. Recommendations were useful for once!
If so, this is your chance to get things right. Don't be afraid to really overhaul something if you should, even if it ends up completely different.
Really enjoyed the video. I love this game and I'll always defend it but at the same time I can understand the people who don't like it. Different strokes it's not for everyone. What I love about it is the way it challenges you to keep getting better and better, the controls are tight thankfully and the combat is enjoyable. Where others may see frustration (like Death Mountain which I'm glad they put so early on) I see it as a really fun challenge to overcome and get better while doing it. Hope to have a deathless run one day.
Zelda 2 and Castlevania 2 had some amazing ideas that were ahead of their own time in a lot of ways... but then they were also made during a time when they were trying to sell you nintendo power guides and hotline tips. So they ended up incredibly tedious if not impossible to progress in at times if you were trying to play them just based on the information given in-game. Especially CV2. I cannot tell you how frustrating it was to own games like these games as a kid. My parents were not about to let me call a tip hotline, so I would be pulling my hair out, trying to decipher some hidden meaning in the villager dialog that just wasn't there. We just wanted action, not all this obtuse bullshit.
It's extremely hard for modern players to understand why these games were so universally hated, because they're so used to looking up guides on the internet. I can totally understand that mindset, but when you need to find the correct unmarked pixel on a huge map with absolutely no direction from the game and bend down or do whatever for a specific amount of time just to make it to the next part of the game, that's horrible design and makes the game practically broken for people who can't look up what to do from an outside source. You can't just squat on every block or patch of grass in the game until you get lucky, though I can assure you many of us tried.
in the good old days, someone poor like me had to git gud or stop playing. i didnt have the money to buy guides or call hotlines(didnt even have a phone).
so my only choice was to git gud, which is what i did.
and thus i spend a lot of time mocking these noobs who cry at a game that doesnt hold your hand.
I enjoyed games like this as a kid. Its these games that gave us alot to talk about in school. I remember the group of friends I had would generally get a game around the same time, so we'd compete with each other to find stuff and share what we found with anyone that needed help.
My guy looks like a fusion dance between William Osman and Michael Reeves with the brain of The peanut butter gamer
Man, I got this as a little kid and I HATED it too. It was cryptic, hard and the music had this vibrato that just didn't sit with me. I remember playing it just because I had very few games
nothing like a guy who wont even try to play a game without a guide talking shit about a game that is older than he is.
Typical modern gamer, full of shit and just want the game to have an arrow pointing to where to go. What's the point of playing at that point. Loser.
I sorely hope this is satirical
Honestly the only valid complaint in this video was Bagu, that was a legit guidedangit moment and the only time I've ever broken down and looked up a solution. The rest just comes off as whining.
I'd love a ROM hack that only changes his name to Bug. I think more could be done to make it fun but that change alone would make me happy.
@@DoomRater I would like upgradeable lifes, that would turn the game to a 10 IMO
@@DoomRater Bug, huh. Why would you want that?
@@DadaPoopoo The joke is that Error and Bug are related, but due to mistranslation, the joke was lost.
@@DoomRater oh, I did not know that. Thanks!
I never got past Death Mountain. Never cared enough to feel obligated to grind endlessly to be strong enough to get past it.
It is still, to this day, the only main Zelda game I haven't finished.
It is also the hardest and most frustrating game I've ever played in my life.
By the way, that was the first video of you I've watched and it's very well done and interesting. Great stuff! You've got yourself a new suscriber :)
In the original Zelda, Link is a 10 year old boy. In Zelda 2, he is 16 years old. It makes sense that he "looks like a Munchkin" in the first and not the second.
he is 12 in zelda 1
Link just holding that unbothered child up in the air may be the funniest thing I've ever seen.
I played Zelda 2 when I was 11 years old. It's definitely my least favorite of the major Zelda entries, but I'm not sure I'd call it particularly difficult or cryptic. In fairness, NES games took a lot of cues from arcade games, which mostly existed to part kids from the maximum number of quarters, so I'm going to go full on "old man yelling at clouds" and say that we were used to harder games than people generally are these days. That's not exactly bragging, because a gamer's relationship with, say, Ninja Gaiden or Mega Man could be downright abusive (try them, you'll see). Overall I would say that game design has improved tremendously in a number of ways, and playing retro games is a great reminder of just how much. But it's not like they were designing bad games intentionally. They were making it all up as they went, with almost nothing to draw from. And we didn't even know enough to know what was bad, because what were we going to compare it to, Atari 2600?
This is not to nitpick your review, because overall I agree that Zelda 2 is a profoundly mediocre entry in a series that includes many legends, and you are to be commended for sticking it out. That said, you are actually given a pretty obvious clue as to where Bagu could be found. There was a monster in a house in that town with the bridge that told you its master was in the woods north of the river. You were expected to talk to that thing and investigate the clue, same as you would in Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior. This was in an age where most clues would be significant, because a game could only have so many NPCs wandering around. It was also an age where you needed a physical set of encyclopedias to do your homework, because the internet wasn't a thing and wouldn't be for years to come.
Personally, I have no beef with Zelda 2. I was thrilled when Zelda 3 came out a few years later to more firmly define what a Zelda game was going to be. Still, I enjoyed it well enough in the brief time I spent with it, and even ran through it again when it hit the Switch's library not too long ago.
Just found your channel. Don't worry about the hate. I was born in 1984 and any reasonable person would be able to understand the perspective of someone who grew up with the GameCube. I do enjoy these games, but I actually like your perspective and appreciate it. Great content!
These obscure secrets wouldn’t be so terrible except for the built-in incentive for a player to stay on the paths, because hitting an enemy in a forested area leads you to a difficult enemy battle area.
I really enjoy Zelda II but you are pretty much spot on in your entire assessment. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment. Actually, I think playing with save states improves this game IMMENSELY. I've actually only ever beaten it using save states. Basically, I'd use it if I got through a particularly difficult area on the world map and at the start of each dungeon. It made it SO MUCH easier to not have to trek all the way back if I game overed.
Zelda 2: some of the best ideas I’d love for them to revisit, some of the most ICONIC new tracks, introducing NPC’s and towns, but falling flat for so many reasons. All based in gameplay. I’ve heard there are rom hacks to improve the game, but I haven’t explored them yet.
I absolutely love this game, and it saddens me a little when people say they hate it, once the game clicks, it just works and becomes amazing. It's not super cryptic and you can actually find stuff, just actually talk to the townsfolk. The combat too is fun, and extremely tight except maybe enemies that shoot sword beams, those are kinda bs.
Difficulty, ya kinda, but not that bad, just don't play it on a digital tv, you want it on CRT, digital tv's have to convert the analogue signal before displaying it, making it a little delayed, that in itself can make alot of older games feel harder.
I mean you still have to remember that this is HIS opinion. I also very much like the game but you have to remember that people may not like the same thing you do.
@@NicolasPruitt No I get that, but his complaints like wrong, lol. Just talk to the townsfolk, the game seriously tells you where things are, or otherwise gives you a clue something might be somewhere with odd tiles or w/e.
It's not like Zelda 1's nearly zero direction with ingame dialogue so vague it might as well not have been there. Zelda 2 sections you off mostly for an area with 1 or 2 dungeons you can reach and towns with each having a spell to find, and an item to return.
He can still hate it all he wants if that's what he wants to do, but it's leaps and bounds less cryptic bs than many other NES games or that he tries to make it out to be.
This was my first zelda game and I love it but you're complaints are all valid
I remember playing this a lot on my Cube on the Zelda collection and holy shit took me three months to beat it and after i finished it i just had frustrations than enjoyment out of it.
I had Zelda 1 and 2 as a kid. Never beat either. Part 1 I came close using a guide, part 2 I just hated. Watching your videos is all the revisiting I'll ever need for these titles.
guiding the player = do it for me because I suck at video games.
Keep in mind this was built in 1986...Released in Jan 1987. Not perfect, but a good game for the time for sure.
YES thank you for giving Super Paper Mario some love!
I genuinely adore Super Paper Mario, and I feel like it was treated really unfairly when it came out. I'm planning to make a Paper Mario version of this series down the road, and I can't wait to talk about Super specifically.
DuoStuff
Awesome!
I was scrolling through the comments and hadn't heard that Paper Mario joke yet and thought you were calling Zelda 2 Super Paper Mario as a joke
Damn I totally LOVE it, it's just awesome, the level desing is very varied and fun, like in Francis's battle, before it you have like a dating stimulator with him, it has very good story and it had also some serious topics, like the world that is basically... Hell and the heaven, that game creeped me out, not gonna lie, finding luigi at the bottom of a lake made by the tears and hands of sinners while crying on a rock isn't something I would wish to anyone
by guanguer ;; I totally agree, the variations in gameplay are awesome! And Luigi is a precious soul who needs to be protected
8:00 You are given the indication of where Bagu live from his pet monster when you visit his empty home.
This is, legitimately, probably my fav game of all time. It was my very favorite as a kid (With Super Mario 2 as a close second) and I can't even tell you how many times I've played it all the way through. But yeah, that Bagu thing took me forever to find as a kid, haha. But you know, I liked just wandering around discovering stuff. I think I liked it the best because I like to wander aimlessly with no one telling me to hurry up, and that's what I got to do in the game but in a way cooler way. Also, it's hella versatile. Even after twenty something years of replay, I still find new ways to do things. But I guess you get it or you don't get it. Good video though.
Did you know the Japanese version of the game is much easier because when u level up I get to choose the stat to increase instead of having meet the required points. However I never like the blue ironknuckels
Whenever I hear the line "It's super linear! Not that I have a problem with linear games, but...", to me it sounds like "I'm not linearist, some of my best friends are linear!"
Well no but it's legit true. I love Super Mario 3D World, all the linear 3D Zeldas, 3D Sonic, and many more. Zelda 2 just screws up a couple of things that makes it feel less good.
DuoStuff yeah I agree. Also 3d world > odyssey like if you agree!
This game would really benefit from a remake like Metroid 2. I would never be able to finish games like these, not even with a guide. I said it ones but I'll say it again, it's not fun having to use a guide. That's why I can't get into Zelda period. People can call me stupid but I sometimes need a guide even for the newer games. That's a reason why I haven't really tried a Link to the past yet. It seems like it is a lot less cryptic and more enjoyable than the nes games but I'm afraid I'll get stuck anyway and I wont enjoy it anymore. So I just keep it as a potentially good Zelda for me. I know that overall people love it but that doesn't mean I would.
Anyway, I love how this game is actually just called Zelda 2 and then with a generic subtitle. :D I mean the first is The Legend of Zelda. This one is just Zelda 2, whatever. It doesn't even get the whole title. Is this the only one with that fate? :D
Graphically it looks acceptable, a lot better than the 1st game and musicwise this game is also more interesting than the previous one. At least it has that over Metroid 2, which was a massive downgrade musicwise from the 1st. And don't give me the whole atmosphere thing. You can have atmosphere with good music too. Metroid 2 has like 1 or 2 good songs and most of the game is silence and boops.
I also like how they tried to make this game into an RPG. As you said, it makes the fights have some value even if you are fed up with them. Though the fact that you lose your exp after death is really stupid. I mean even other NES RPGs weren't this cruel. Also generally things like healing magic aren't too expensive in RPGs at least at the beginning, so you have an actual chance of surviving. But here they clearly messed that up as well. The 2D system also could be fun but the execution is not the best. Just look at Shovel knight. That is basically like this game but good lol. So yeah a remake would work really well for this game. Even better than for the 1st game because there they would have to put in so much extra stuff that it might turn into a new game altogether. Zelda 2 on the other hand already has a lot of elements with good ideas in it which just need refinement, a new code of paint and maybe a small amount of new stuff. I don't think they would have to change it as much as they changed M2 for it's remake.
First: Yeah I really think this could benefit highly from a remake. There's an interesting set up here, it's just it's not good with its execution. And I completely get not enjoying games if you need a guide. I really don't either. Though thankfully I've been lucky with the newer Zelda games.
Second: Yeah it's really freaking weird that it does have "the Legend of." Kind of fitting though considering how the game turned out.
Third: if I was to compare this to Metroid 2, I'd say this definitely has the advantage in aesthetics, but Metroid 2 is the better game because it's actually still a fully playable and fun game, just one that's aged.
Glad you enjoyed the video. I always look forward to your comments. =D
If you want to try a Zelda game like A Link to the Past, I'd recommend the 3DS game A Link Between Worlds. It's a sequel/reimagining of ALttP, and it's a very good starting place for beginners. It's way more accessible, and it's never too cryptic. It also is very non-linear.
The japanese version was a lot less difficult. The RPG elements were better integrated.
I know there was a fan translation of it that made the dialogue comprehensible as of the late 90s, not sure if one's still available.
Ahh yes, the infamous "I can't play a game unless there's constantly an arrow telling me exactly where to go" crew.
I remember really enjoying the difficulty as a kid. It was actually both hard and fair in the right amount. You had to use skill to win.
Zelda 1 was far too easy, while Zelda 2 was just right.
I remember the first time I played this game and not liking it (I think I was around 9 or 10). Fast forward 3 or 4 years to the mid 90's and it suddenly became one of my favorites. Not really sure why. To this day, I somewhat understand why it is so divisive and why some people hate it, but I love it
As an 39-year-old with no nostalgia for this game, I've never found it to be the least bit enjoyable when I've tried to play it.
I can tell a lot of people in this comment section are very nostalgia blind (and are bad at make good arguments) it really shows a difference when we see none nostalgia blind people like you
@@platinumskulls4490 people seem to forget that a lot of things age, and while there may have been justifications back in the day, nowadays you can't really enjoy these types of games without a pair of nostalgia glasses
I'm part of the minority of people who like Zelda 2 I don't know why but I play this game at least once or twice a year it's fun for me though and ya I know it has flaws but I still find fun in the so called black sheep Zelda game
All the internet does is talk crap on stuff people in real life actually like. I was surprised to hear people don’t like this game. But internet
I'm in the same boat, one of my favorite NES games.This and Faxanadu. The "cryptic" part as a previous poster said didn't seem to hard compared to other games, also the first game sort of set me up for what to look for.
The difficulty is due to not using big brain strats to level up properly. Yes dungeon 1 might be rough for beginners, but once you learn that XP is used to level up AND the gem fills your XP to the next highest level, it's easy
Having been around when it first came out and playing the daylights out of it, I enjoy the game quite a bit. I will concede however that it is an oddity in the series. But, I kinda like it for that reason.
I didnt even notice how good the music in this game is since I was to busy getting mad.
I didn't thumbs down the video even though I disagree. I rather enjoyed your ranting, even though I don't feel the same. The things you complained about were things I had no trouble with back when I was ~10 years old. The game was hard, and I kept playing. The game doesn't hold your hand. I was able to find the man in the forest patch because I was already aware there were patches of forests that had XP bags in them. I explored every grid, and tried many things to pass new obstacles until one worked. The one thing that I was stuck on for weeks was finding the hidden village, because I chopped the forest down, but the graphics didn't display the hidden town on that attempt. But I, by far, love this game more than the original Zelda.
Oh, and to defeat the Ironnuckles, you have to jump, crouch in mid-air, and stab into them right above that slight top area which their shields don't block. But if you do this manuever close enough, the stab will still go through their shield and inflict damage. (which I noticed you figured out later in the video)
7:54
wrong, there's a NPC on the village that talks about his "master being in the forest at the north of the village".
People do mention the old lady sex thing, that's what makes the "what're they doing in there??" thing even funnier.
It takes a woman with experience to replenish magic with her services.
This is the most accurate review of this game even down to the final sentences. First Zelda game, I've gone back to it a few times and beaten it every time. This game... I'm basically torturing myself to beat it and I'm not having fun at all.
God, I am super glad that more and more people are appreciating Super Paper Mario, because I adore that game to pieces
It is genuinely one of my favorite games, and it was really disheartening after beating it for the first time because I went to see what others felt about it and... People did not share my affection. XD
I plan to do a video on it down the line, and I hope I can get some more people to give it another chance.
@@DuoStuff I hear ya. There's always going to be those games that you personally liked while a shit ton didn't... I just say role with it lol. Just try not to be a dick to others because of their taste. I used to be that asshole... And feel bad about it ever since. We're all diff and stuff lol.
Back in the early Nintendo days people would talk about a game and share information on the playground i had my zelda map from the original game and put marks on every secret I found and my friends would show me other secret so I'd mark it.
Zelda 2 is the only game I've actually cried because of.
This game could have been fixed in a few easy steps.
1. Keep the sword beam on all the time and have it do the same amount of damage as the regular sword attack.
2. Take shields away from the Darknuts until at least the 3rd dungeon.
3. Have NPCs with concise and clear instructions of where to go and what to do (like after talking to someone, load the overworld map and highlight where to go for the player.)
That lowers the overall difficulty, flattens the difficulty curve, especially in the beginning, and removes the ambiguity of what to do. Your health being that easy to get rid of and so hard to get back is justified if the game encourages you to play defensively and keep your distance instead of forcing you to charge the enemies and exploit their behavior patterns as soon as you take 1 hit.
The flipside on the difficulty and the lack of health pickups, particularly things like Death Mountain, is that unlike Zelda 1, Link has multiple lives. In Zelda 1, dying is dying, but Zelda 2 offers multiple lives, and extra ones scattered around as well that can be picked up (And I think they reset with each Game Over but I could be wrong on that). Also, Death Mountain has multiple red magic containers and the player should have already learned Life by this point, so you realistically should have at least 3 lives plus multiple heals throughout each one.
Additionally, progressing through the game gives 'checkpoints' in a way to get back after a Game Over. Once the hammer is obtained, you can easily get to the Southern area after a game over within seconds. Once the raft is obtained, getting to the other area is just as easy. Only the final area after the whistle is semi-hard to have to go through over and over with the Dino/Lizalfos throwing rocks, but even that isn't too bad.
THANK YOU! I am 38 years old, played Z2 when it first came out back in the later 80s and TO THIS DAY whenever I play it (even through emulation on my PC, meaning where you're not "alone" with other stuff running on the screen, etc.) it **STILL** makes me feel genuinely *bad*. No s$%t, I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. I recently sat down (in the last couple of months I mean, in 2020) and decided "time to get over this stupid fear" and God as my witness I couldn't do it. I played farther than I ever had, all the way to the last "regular" Castle before "the great castle" and I couldn't finish the game. It just leaves me feeling "bad" (literally depressed). I wondered if there's some combination of lights and sounds that trigger this reaction in people like myself 🤔
keep trying, the game is not that hard.
I love it. Though I played it as a kid and it provokes a certain nostalgia I can't get from anything else. Though so do a lot of games but I don't enjoy them like this. You should play with nintendo power issue 4 whatever issue part 2 is in, for a more authentic 80s type experience. Also put on an NTSC filter so it looks like on a TV, which is how it looked for everyone until emulator. Pirate bay has NP issue 1-50 thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=8709177
I called the NP hotline on more than one occasion 🤣. With my parent’s permission of course. Now I’m curious how much we spent on those calls....🤔
19:29
So THAT is where Enix eventually got the idea for King Slimes from
WOW!
Having trouble with cryptic NES games? Well sir you just need to:
🎶 “get the powerrrr, Nintendo powwweeerrrr” 🎵
good video man, big respect for actually finishing the game haha
They should do a Castlvania 2 VS Zelda 2 battle game where you have to look for cryptic clues and the characters can never find each other to do battle and get super frustrated.
This was a great game! Loved it. I love that games didn’t hold your hand back in the day. Too much liner gameplay in today’s games (minus anything produced by From Soft). Original retro consoles are my favorite, and the NES is easily at the top of not top 3 favorite consoles.
Liner
🙄
My main gripes with this game is the lives system, which is silly for a Zelda game, and the lack of checkpoints/decent save system. Most of the problems would be at least tolerable if saving and quitting didn't reset my EXP or send me back all the way back to the beginning. Like if I at least started at the last town I visited or the current temple I'm on when I open a file that'd be great! And whenever I died, I at least spawn at the start of the temple or a tile away from the last temple I beat. And with modern hardware, I don't see how we couldn't have a quick save feature.
This game is close to my heart. Being a kid around the age of 8-9, I clearly remember renting this game and mike Tyson’s punch out.
“S o r r y, I K n o w N o t h I n g” lol
As someone who got an NES because home computer games were unfair and impossible to beat, I never understand these kind of rants about any of Nintendo's games being too hard, and that includes Zelda2. I admit the difficulty was an artificial lengthening of the game, but it was from a time when we cherished an expensive game purchase and didn't mind spending hours of our free kid time exploring. And rating that by today's standards always feels a bit out of place.
But a fair review, and to your credit you did point out the strong parts of the game.
FWIW, I got an NES for Zelda2 and considered it the best of the two. Though I did later convert to the general consensus that Zelda1 was the better game. Still, I will always cherish the fact that they dared to take a sequel in such a different direction early on... it did wonders for SMB2 (aka Doki Doki panic), and even though Zelda2 didn't work out quite as well there, it's still a great game if you invest some time in it. But I suppose you gotta find that childish sense of pride for beating a tough-but-fair game that has limited appeal in today's landscape of gaming.
When I was a kid, I used to pretend that the game ended after sailing away on the raft and after that was Zelda 3 so that i could lie to myself that i beat the good game and would skip on the unfairly hard continuation
I don't think he realizes the first two Zelda games were made in 1986 and 1987. Let me repeat that.... 1 9 8 6 and 1 9 8 7. These games were classics for their time, judging them by modern game design standards is like judging a Ford Model T to a Lexus.
That's... That's the whole point of doing a series like this? There are plenty of people that can tell you how they were judging them by the standards of the time they released in. I can't. I judge every game in a series I cover by the standards from today. If I didn't, I might as well go look up the Nintendo Power review from 30 years ago and just read it verbatim, because that's how much value a video like you want would be worth.
A Link to the Past is the first true LoZ game in my opinion. The first 2 were experimental and unpolished. A Link to the Past started a trend of LoZ games that carried over all the way to BotW.
My biggest question is why Link looks like a cartoon character compared to the civilians
The intro is still the best one in the series!
I honestly can't dislike any of the Legend of Zelda games. What I would love to see is a Legend of Link game in the Nintendo 8 which will be the successor to the Switch in the future years. I hope the unreal engine remake design from that genius designer on UA-cam who did a remake for Ocarina of Time is considered for the future. I hope the Nintendo 8 will do Virtual Reality and Online play where you can play VR and switch to TV game play along with multi player mode and online play with a hybrid model. That would impress me even more then the PS5 and XBOX Series One which I am sure will sell a lot given the fan boy loyalties developed by gamers who follow the major consoles in the console generation wars in the past 40 years.
Played this game when I was 8 and I couldn't read english at that time. It took me months to finally get to the final castle, and then my brother kicked the NES to annoy me and I lost my save file... We don't talk anymore.
I love this Zelda title. I would love a remaster of this game, keeping a lot of the aesthetics, but the map is way bigger.
I grew up playing this game and NES all together, the “poor design” is mostly from little memory and yes lack of experience, this was the pioneering years still of gaming teams where less than 1/10th of what we see today and some games where rushed to make a target date. We should also talk about how Zelda benefited from this game and that was the team learned from the mistakes made and grew from them, look at the next Zelda Console game that would come after this back to top down side scrolling and one the best games in the History of Zelda. OOT will always be my number one goto because how it changed How we played Zelda yet again the team goes and tries to make changes to the format and formula to the series which there’s nothing wrong with that at all.
All I heard was wah wah wah, I’m not nearly good enough to beat this game.
Bahaha, that's all I heard too, hahahaha
I see you missed out on the solid points that Duo had to say about the extreme difficulty spike near the beginning of the game, and the overly cryptic methods in progressing through the main story. If you had actually listened to his points, you could even hear him say that the game becomes pretty easy after the Death Mountain portion of the game and actually feels doable. Not only this, but Duo actually beat the game. He didn't through a hissy fit after dungeon 1 and gave up playing it. He actually trudged through this game all the way to the credits. If you really have an argument for why Zelda 2 is a good game, then say it instead of bad mouthing someone with no real back up.
@@They_are_Arthur I think you (miss read my first out of 2 comments)... where I accounted for the extreme difficulty at the start of the Game by stating how us kids back then realized very quick that you needed to grind in the fields (prior to entering the first palace) ... this is way way before death mountain... Each palace will reward you with the next level upgrade, times that by 6 palaces or 5 if you want and that's how many upgrades you take off from the total grind at the start of the game... 80's kids in NZ where there was No hotline came up with this strategy which made the game ridiculously easy... by the time you even got to the first & second palace and even Death mountain was an absolute breeze, by using this strategy the game was at least breeze right up to the 6th palace and even then it wasn't until the 7th palace which actually was really hard
I never said Duo din't beat the game... yet if you watch his video, his stats (to a Zelda 2 gamer who smashed this game as a kid) is laughable at the Scenes of the first palace... hence why he's complaining...
Also... I never said "Duo" gave up after the first palace, I saw the whole video so get your facts right... lol
If you read properly what I said in my first comment... you would realize that my 2nd comment was due to his reply actually bad mouthing my criticism of him... yet even looking at his stats in the video going through death mountain and especially on the 2nd continent, he was completely i'll prepared, hence more complaints...
Yes the game is cryptic at times, yet that's the whole point of puzzle games and this game was designed for the hardcore gamers of that time period, (who were used to extreme challenges)... however if you start Zelda 1 with your name as "ZELDA" you unlock the 2nd quest... that is an INSANE challenge and way way way harder!! Good luck beating that quest without an online guide
My argument for Zelda 2 as a good game is:
Going back and playing games with the mindset of today's gamer (hardcore or not) is NOT the same as playing this with the mindset of someone growing up during when it was the latest game at the point in time... for the time period this wasn't designed for the casual gamer in mind... casual gamers were turned off by the difficulty, yet "fun" for hardcore gamers was 100% in the challenge... sure there were moments when we cursed and tore our hair out back as kids but beating that game without hotlines (In NZ there was none), and without internet guides (cause that didn't come out until I was a teenager)... the thrill was in the overwhelming sense of accomplishment we instantly recognized that Zelda 2 played out similar to an RPG in which grinding and leveling up is completely normal, any RPG that you don't grind or level up in and go into hard areas of the game will result in being too hard, in which Zelda 2 is no different than that of any RPG... Zelda 1 (2nd Quest option) and Battletoads NES (On the other hand) (I never beat clinger winger level lol) yet some people have, those 2 NES titles is a real challenge, way harder than Zelda 2 and fully worth swearing and complaining over... yet they are specifically designed as the "ultimate challenges" for the hardcore gamer... The reason why the Zelda 2 format was dropped (yet subtle elements can be found in later games, just masked in different ways) is due to Shigeru Miyamoto's desire for creating games for the casual gamer, which is why he considers Zelda 2 to be his "black sheep", yet despite him feeling that way... Zelda 2 actually has a huge fan base... Duo's only real praise was in the music in which he's 100% correct, for an 8-bit machine its pretty good, yet for those who rose to the challenge and played this (while fully knowing well) that most games of the time period were rubbish and yet many were great... this was one of the great titles, hence why Shigeru Miyamoto listed it as one of the NES mini titles, for hardcore 80's games this was definitely a good game... however the best was yet to come...
@@MrJamesieBoye I can see some of your arguments, but I really think that a game that's whole appeal is based around building a community with other people in order to understand the game in and out doesn't age very well. If a guide or a hotline is basically necessary for playing the game for the first time, then it's not doing it's job right.
Duo also might have started the game with low stats because usually it's pretty accepted in video games that the first few levels were at least easy to see, and for someone who would be new to this game, they probably wouldn't have understood the stat system as thoroughly as someone from the 80's would've known it.
@@They_are_Arthur lol... what you believe is the mindset of modern gamers lol... in the 80's and eatly 90's that was not the mindset... community gaming didn't really exist which is the whole point of what I'm saying... as gamers of today going back and playing these games have absolutely know clue in the world as to the mindset of a gamer in the 80's and early 90's
Our community was discussed in the playground... online didn't exist, and you weren't considered as a "hardcore gamer" with guides... and hotlines didn't exist for NZ back in the day...
Community Gaming as you know it didn't start until the Super NES Era, even the PC games of that time only started to develop early concepts of modern community gaming... your arguments are classic modern gamer arguments (right in some ways, yet wrong in other ways, due to the mindset being different) yet I can't expect you to understand this as you didn't grow up in these time periods, however cause we are having a good dialog I can forgive for the "I think" mentality, as opposed the "I know" mentality... because if you knew... you wouldn't be saying these things.
You want the truth form an old school hardcore gamer... who has to play uncharted series on crushing just to feel like he's getting the same kind of challenge rush feeling out of modern games (used as an example):
Guides and hotlines were considered cop-outs for those that wish to look at the back of the maths textbook for the answers instead of figuring out the equation themselves...
Even at the end of Duo's video... his stats are NOT 8,8 8... and therefore still low... lol, honestly you need to pay attention to the video... no wonder he was complaining, he made it harder on himself... lol
Community based gaming didn't exist in the NES era...
...
As kids in the 80's do you truly believe that we would not be new to this game also... hahaha
To understand Zelda I, you have to look at what an astonishing progression it was from other action-adventure games of the time. This was only 4 years after the original Pitfall. It was heavily influenced by games like Tower of Druaga & the original Hydlide for Japanese computers. When you stack it up against all of these in terms of polish, complexity, control and variety, it's a huge landmark in game design. Its method of teasing the player with areas unreachable until later items or keys are acquired is a core mechanic to drive the player onward which has become a game design standard.
To understand Zelda II, you have to know that the game was rushed, the developers were forced to work through the holidays, and they were bitter & miserable. This all comes through in the finished product.
I was so excited to get this on Christmas the year that it came out. I too hated the grinding but as a kid it was easier to devote time to it. I'd literally spend hours each day for days at a time just walking around looking for enemies on the field. What really messed it all up for me was beating one of the dungeons (beat the boss) and leaving without having found the special item. Once you beat a dungeon the entrance gets sealed up and you can't go back into it. I forget what the item was but I needed it to fight another boss later, didn't have it and I was literally stuck. Everything I worked for over the past two weeks was for NOTHING!... Now that's bad design. I was so frustrated I out them game up and didn't touch it again for about 30 years - no joke.
"What really messed it all up for me was beating one of the dungeons (beat the boss) and leaving without having found the special item. Once you beat a dungeon the entrance gets sealed up and you can't go back into it."
"didn't have it and I was literally stuck. "
sorry to say that to you, but beating a boss of a dungeon doesn't seal the entrance of the dungeon, unless you already found the special item.
so if a dungeon is sealed, that means that you did literally everything you needed to do on this dungeon.
so yeah, you weren't stuck at all.
"Everything I worked for over the past two weeks was for NOTHING!... Now that's bad design."
or maybe you are just bad, I don't know, because there's no stuck problem on this game.
@@lecorbak LMAO - maybe. Glad to see you're such a nice person about it though.
@@80s_Gamr I'm pretty sure you just didn't know what to do to continue.
it's a shame cause it's a good game.
you should try again someday.
@@lecorbak Yeah I actually thought about trying to play it again after all these years to beat it (before seeing this video too). I have it in my collection and it's one of the few games from back in the day I didn't finish. I just remember it taking a long time to gain the XP needed to level up and I didn't know if I wanted to try and invest all that time again. I'm gettin' old these days and my attention span isn't the same, lol.
I never beat this game because my parents refused to let me call the hotline, lmao.
I like this game and have completed it many times. However, the first few times I played it I didn't. It is definitely a game that grows on you.
I'm curious. Why did you replay the game after completing it once and not liking it, let alone completing it a few times and still not liking it?
@@Teknanam I never completed it those first few times. I only completed it after realizing I had been playing it wrong all these years. I treated it like a traditional Zelda and failed. Eventually I realized you need to grind out to improve your skills. After I worked that out the game was easier and more enjoyable.
@@Teknanam this question is better suited for me. who didn't like the game, beat it..then played it again.
I was born in '84. Didn't really start to understand what I was doing in games till like 1990or '91.
And playing whatever game was laying around. I was smart enough to only rent games like Megaman or punchout from Blockbuster. Short games for fun that can be enjoyed on a weekend from school. doesn't require passwords and any real storytelling.
Anyhow after beating the first Zelda game..getting into this was something i had to do. And I kinda hated it. took forever.
But..I started to get older and understand games more. So being bored with the 10 random nes games and maybe 5 snes games, and like 3 sega games I had at the time, I tried Zelda II again when I was like 9. that's like in 1993.
The reason dates are important..to understand there was really NO other options back then.
No cellphones. Internet, as compared to today, was just non existent. You kinda just HAD to deal with what you had. This is where the hotlines and guides made sense. We had NO OTHER options back then.
Learn to play and love it..or hate it..but still play it cause..what the fuck else you gonna do about it?
Plus..you're not in an era of "let's make everything as real as possible". So there's no expectation for it to be any different than what it is.
A lot of times, back then, you didn't hear people complain about the controls or level design or any of that. It was just...as it is. So when you didn't win..you blamed yourself for not being good enough. Not the game for being made poorly.
So, figuring it out means you did well...and therefore, you now, kinda, like the game. the better you are, the more you like it.
And playing games back then was ALSO like reading a good book. Anything that looked bad visually...was adjusted in your own imagination. and there wasn't much options of other games that you could compare to, that made you feel wrong for justifying that which you saw. You just accepted it as that's how it is.
So, in your mind, you were going on an epic adventure. YOU had to learn to be better. It was never the game's fault. it was your lack of understanding..and when you finally learned what to do, you were the epic adventurer. Pride.
Now, my cousin who's about 7yrs younger..he got his start in SNES games. He can't understand one thing about me loving nes games. even the ones people swear are the worse lol
@@agonleed3841
I was born early into the 90s, but my parents cheaped out and got me an NES regardless which was all I played until they got me an N64 years later. I know about that feeling of those games being all you had to play. I KINDA get that whole thing of blaming yourself for not being able to complete games, but I had limits for how much I'd blame myself vs. the game. Probably because I had a bunch of games (the Mario trilogy, Dirty Harry, Spyhunter, Bad Dudes) and a lot of my friends had more modern systems like the SNES and Genesis which showed off better design choices. Still, I would go back to my NES and eventually beat games. But Zelda II always pissed me off because it gave the illusion that it should be better than the other non-Nintendo sidescrollers with its better controls and a save system. But having to lose all my progress on the 2nd dungeon would just piss me off too much.
That time thing does make sense. By the time I went back and finally beat Zelda II, my tolerance for questionable old design was way less than it was as a kid even though I knew enough to power through the game anyway. But in the end, I didn't gain any new appreciation for the game like I did when I played through and beat Metroid 1when it was part of Metroid Prime 1.
I think Zelda 2 is a fantastic game for its era, but not a good Zelda game I would readily recommend to fans of the series. I love the RPG mechanics that give you the feeling of growth over the game and make you excited to see how much better you can deal with enemies and bosses, I love the feeling of getting down those enemies' attack patterns and learning the spacing to dispatch them efficiently with your pathetic sword range, and I love finding the secrets on the overworld. However, I agree with you that there's several negatives that counter the positives, such as some enemy patterns being downright unfair (and in some cases borderline impossible like the bird knights in the Great Palace), the awful and cruel lack of checkpoints at palaces or even towns, and (just a couple in my opinion) overly cryptic areas like New Kasuto along with some NPC dialouge that leaves a lot to be desired (such as not telling you that you need more magic containers for an item/spell). Honestly I find Zelda 2 much more inherently interesting than the first game, and the randomizer for it is just fantastic even fixing a lot of the game's worst flaws such as adding checkpoints to the beginning of temples.
In 1989, I asked for the original Legend of Zelda for Christmas as we had just finally gotten a NES, and got Zelda II instead. I loved the original Zelda, from watching my friends play. I was so disappointed - but I tried to make it work, as I didn't want to seem ungrateful, and our family could only afford to pick up new games once in a blue moon. It does have moments of brilliance - the 4th castle with its teleporting wizzrobes is awesomely creepy and atmospheric. But I never finished it. When I did finally acquire the original Legend Of Zelda, I put it down and never picked it back up again. And we did totally call the hotline, but not for this game.