Did you know that there is such a difference in the life of an officer and a sailor aboard an aircraft carrier? Do you think that's justified? Or should sailors also have the same rights as officers and good sleeping quarters ❓💙
It's called RHIP..Rank Has It's Privileges. It's been that way since the beginning of time. As Curt said...Want the best in the military? Well, you gotta earn it. Not everyone is officer material. But, as my old pappy used to say...the world needs ditch diggers too!
No, there's 5000 of us. There'd be no space for the aircraft. I didn't have any problem with the perks and privilege of rank. I mean the pay isn't much of an inducement to take on the added responsibility. I just didn't care for how some 'Zeros' treated enlisted, especially the junior ones. By the time they made O5 or O6 they mostly got passed it.
There is a joke where a Sergeant on a dark night walked by Eisenhower and forgot to salute. When he realized his mistake he ran back to the general, saluted and Apologized. Eisenhower offered the man a cigarette, and told him "Sergeant the army does not care if you forget to salute a 5-star general." Then Eisenhower took a slow drag on his cigarette and said "But Sergeant, don't you ever forget to salute a 2nd Lieutenant."
I am a Navy veteran who served aboard a super carrier as an enlisted man. The headline for this video is based on a lack of information: sailors do not hate offiecrs. In fact, some of the guys I served with who were officers were my best friends and some of the enlisted men aboard were hated.
Served on Forestall (as E5). I had no prob with Officers living 'better' the Enlisted. What seems to be different, was in 1970, E1-E6 slept in the same Berthing. OTOH E6 had a separate area for their 'Mess', E7-9 always had the CPO mess and Berthing.
You are correct shipmate! I retired as an E-6 but I still keep in touch with several Officers I was lucky enough to serve alongside. One of them is now living in San Diego and she and I keep in touch through Facebook. The Captain of my first Ship passed away a few years ago but that man helped me grow up and mature. I have always had the deepest respect for him. On the other hand one of the E-7s on my second Ship (I Refuse to call this psychopath a Chief) I would have gladly thrown overboard.
As an E-5 aboard the Constellation,we didn't hate officers, we just didn't usually have much respect for them til they wised up. About the time they would make LCDR.
I was on the IKE in 78&9 as a E4 then E5 and we respected officers we did not hate them. We also slept in open birthing. We were air wing. Officers had what was called Officers County which had blue tile areas where we were not allowed in except for GQ. We used to love to say, Make Way, when we ran through that area for GQ!
I am a US Navy veteran who was a flight deck aircraft director. There was no hatred ever between the enlisted ranks and officers. In fact, there was a tremendous amount of respect demonstrated between both groups. The ships company (enlisted) needed and respected the ships officers. And the officers, especially the flight deck and hanger deck officers, showed tremendous respect for the Airedales on the ship. The function of the ship is impossible without both groups acting this way.
no sorry sir we all hated junior officers, respect was given because if not well then you know what happens. not only your naval careen being fubar but your civilian as well. hat emight be a strong word, but you can imagine someone coming out of the academy who has never been on a ship outside his midshipman training that tries to manage everything with an iron fist knowing nothing of the command and doesnt care because its his way or mast for you. no we respected you but we didnt like you trust me
As a retired Marine E-8 I want to say I served with a lot of great Naval Officers and Enlisted and made a lot of friends. As for the production of the video, this person has it all wrong and apparently has never served on any naval vessel. As a young marine I served aboard the USS Forrestal for a total of 12 months in 1972/73. I was a plane captain assigned to VMFA-531 the Gray Grost and spent a lot of time on the flight deck caring for the F-4 I was assigned to. Our sister squadron was VF-11, between the two of us we were a team and had a lot of respect for each other. As for officers there was a lot of respect for them, they had a hard job to do getting those aircraft on and off that carrier safely. They also had a lot of respect for the enlisted man, because they knew we were the ones that brought them back home save each and every flight. As for living quarters that was to be expected as an enlisted man and I can say it was not all that bad. I will say the chief petty officers and senior marines had a great mass hall, I know, I was assigned to get the food for the cook daily. So, hats off to each and every one of the naval chiefs and officers. Semper Fi my brothers!
Agreed. I was an enlisted Sailor and later an officer, and I served on several amphibious vessels. I kept hearing about how the Marines and Navy "hated each other", but apparently, the ships I was on never got that memo. The Marines were always awesome and total professionals. I was friends with many of them.
cool, I served on the Uss Forrestal Cv-59 from 1987-1991, flight deck ordnanceman. the only marines we had then were Mardet, for the special weapons, very interesting to know you guys were attached to the fid. I never knew.
I served for almost 3 years on the USS Dwight D Eisenhower and I did not hate officers. I knew that they earned their place onboard and I could have too if I’d wanted to. I really never even thought about how they lived compared to me. I had two officer friends, one was an F-14 pilot that I went to church with, and the other was an F-14 RIO in the other squadron. We treated each other with mutual respect as shipmates should and that was that. As far as the differences in living conditions went, everyone onboard knew that the chiefs had the best life of anyone on the boat. They had great quarters and ate the best chow -far better than anyone in officer’s country. Chiefs were also the most respected because they knew everything about anything, and they damn sure earned their anchors! Whoever did this video is damn irresponsible and uninformed! GO NAVY!
I served 10 years in the Navy. There was no 'hate' between officers and enlisted sailors. In fact, many officers in the aircraft carrier were former enlisted sailors themselves. Moreover, US Navy Chief Petty Officers (CPO) have a unique role in delegating the duties of the day and provide an enlisted advisory role to the officers.
Most definitely. A wise junior officer (we call them "Ruperts") will ALWAYS seek guidance from a Chief. This is illustrated by the class of officer recruits during their basic training. The Chief had his squad of new officers fallen in and told them..."from now on, I will call you Sir and you will call ME Sir. The only difference is, YOU will mean it"! Always makes me chuckle...
@@TheRealist2022 I was in Flight Deck Control one day and the offers were standing around discussing the days evolution. When they all decided what needed to be done, every single one of those officers turned to the Flight Deck Chief and asked... asked... if what they'd planned could actually be done. They all waited with anxiety until the Senior Chief took a long drink of his coffee cup (aka "The Black Hole") and then nodded that it could. Those officers smiled like it was Christmas morning. One of the most surreal moments I witnessed as a young sailor.
I served aboard a carrier, an amphib, two flag commands and a Seabee battalion, and not once did I hate any officer. There may have been differences in opinions, but no outright hatred. As a Navy veteran of 22 years, I saw a few of my subordinates become officers themselves. They became officers not in search of better conditions or to impose their authority over the enlisted people, but they became officers because they had the guts to lead, and they knew that if the enlisted ranks fail, the officer corps fail… and the mission fails.
well, you are a better man than I sir. to call you sir, i know your are a sir means you are better than they.. .because you actually, worked for a living!
My son enlisted in the Army right after high school. He didn't want to go to college because he didn't like school and didn't know what career to pursue. He did love the infantry and excelled during his enlistment. But when he got out, he joined the Army National Guard, went to college on the GI Bill and got his degree. A year or so after graduating, he went back into the Army as a 2nd Lieutenant. He was recently promoted to Major and is now attending the Army Command and Staff College. I'm very proud of him - he earned whatever pay and benefits he receives. I know some enlisted guys hate officers, but they would probably hate anyone who outranked them, even though they have the same opportunities.
This video talks about the better living conditions officers enjoy vs enlisted aboard ship. The contrast isn’t nearly so stark in the Army, especially in the field.
My have things changed. I'm a Vietnam Navy Vet. and things were different back in those days. I was in a Navy Attack squadron and our Officers were great guys. They new that their lives were in our hands. Several of them went on Liberty with us and bought us drinks and a good night on the town. While bar hopping we addressed them by their rank or sir. They told us while on Liberty to knock that shit off. We have a first name like you. Back on ship it was back to the Navy norm. They often came by our shops aboard the carrier and shot the shit with us before a combat mission in Vietnam. We had the utmost respect for them as they did for us. Thats just the way it was. I lost my division officer as he was shot down south of the DMZ. He bailed out and made it on the ground but put up a fight against the NVA and was killed. He was one of the officers that took us on liberty. I have a tracing of his name from the Wall in D.C. RIP LT. Dan Borha😪
Yep. Our Divo's first name on board was "Ensign". On the beach his first name was "Tony". I honestly cannot remember him giving an actual order...We made sure that shit was done right so that he never HAD to give an order. Closest thing to an order was probably a very infrequent "It would be a help to me if..." or "I'd really appreciate it if..."
@@THaulk Yep. He always had our backs, so we had his back. It's the way things should be. Besides, he was an Ensign. I think that it is written somewhere that it is a responsibility of a Navy Petty Officer (NCO) to ensure that an Ensign is never forced to make a decision...
As a Navy Veteran , I can speak with first hand knowledge ,, very few Officers are hated ,,, just as in Civilian life there are a few Officers who just don’t get “it”,, how to lead and not “push” Men . New young Officers soon learn from salty older Chiefs and Petty Officers how to treat Sailors to gain respect and loyalty from them . There will always be a few proud hardheaded officers who will never learn and are usually ending on shore duty where they can do the least damage . I have been with Officers in in a land far away and long ago that I would followed storming the gates of hell . God Bless our Officers and the Men who follow.🙏🏻🇺🇸
This is interesting, because for me I think I will have trouble being stern enough. I don't see how people can get a little bit of power and instantly just turn into an asshole toward their subordinates. Maybe going through OCS is what brings about that change? Are Officers taught to treat the enlisted under them as "less than"? Genuine question.
@@harrygmarshall5157 what about officer country on a aircraft carrier its called a slave and master environment which is not good for moral. The enlisted are the slaves
I was in the United States Navy for 33 years from 1979 to 2012, I was an enlisted sailor from 1979 to 1989 and was commissioned as an Ensign in 1990. My experience from E1 thru O6 was as expected, I never had any animosity towards those appointed over me at anytime in my career in fact my goal was to follow the best leaders and emulate them when I had the opportunity. I was nominated/selected on several occasions as Sailor of the Quarter and was also selected as Sailor of the Year at my last command prior to being selected to attend OCS. If u understand boundaries and respect the chain of command, if u work as hard as you can in your rate and eventually decide you would like to apply to become an officer it is possible. Only the sick, lame and lazy fail to thrive in the Navy. LCPO’s, Division Officers and Department Heads are always on the lookout for outstanding performers. It’s your responsibility from Boot Camp, to A School, to your first command (aboard ship or ashore) to be on time, ask questions, seek advice from a trusted mentor, follow the directions of your division Petty Officers, and most importantly do your job as if your life and the lives of your shipmates depended on it. Don’t sweat the small stuff, don’t make excuses and definitely don’t complain about things you have absolutely no control of. As for me Oh the best part after all that time in the service, Uncle Sam sends me a thank you note on the first of every month until I die.
I only served 4active and 6 reserved... I realized the Navy wasn't for me. But if it were I would of did exactly like you... Pretty much... Knowing what to do with one's life and achieve the maximum is the Goal of a person who knows how to make the most of circumstances... My time in the Navy was really Great... No such thing as Hate... respect for the Ranks.. and do what is expected Right the first time and every time... It's a well Disciplined Military... I finished with Honorable and Eligible for Re Enlistment... Did not waste my time and made sure the Tax Payers got more than their moneys worth .. always above and beyond.... I'm proud that your Service wasn't wasted and glad you receive the Gratitude and Thankfulness for your Service.... Move on Sailor.. and God Bless You and our Country. I Salute You🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@ricardosoto5512 I hated every single moment in the navy. I felt as if I wasted 4 years of my life, and my adult life only was able to start after I left. I am however happy that others enjoyed their time in.
@@pharma37 I never judge... But everyone knew who was in and became problematic or just had "the wrong attitude" as it would've been said. Over 90% don't make it a Career and more than 50% leave after their 1st enlistment. The Military is only s stepping stone or s necessity for the Majority. The Lifer's are usually Military Family and a few who just Love the Life. It's a Contract and like any Contract... You want to finish in Good standing... I received a lot of advice and told what to expect from Family and Veterans. In my case.... I didn't have much going for me and limited... In reality... No resources to pursue Higher education.... As Student Loans were not that available. So I went Navy only because of the Port Call's stories from Veterans. I really became Depressed when my High School sweetheart dumped me 18 months into my Enlistment.... She wanted a present and active relationship. Soo I realized that many Sailors were going thru the same.. whether your a Recruit or a Lifer ... Everyone was getting the same Dear John treatment and many had it happen more than 2 times.... Divorces usually came after 12 years in service.... More Benefits... And usually after 12 years.. kids and divorce... Meant a Lifer in the Navy was inevitable... Imagine realizing that.... Even if you want out... It would be Difficult starting all over... Soo... That's why I got out. I Love women.... But I didn't want to be in a ship floating around... Longer than I would like... Because of Kids and Divorce. And yeah... My last 3 months I was desperate to get out.... And once out.... After 23 years... My X and the kids got the House. And I got a non nagging new girlfriend..,.. I guess it's not how you make it... It's how you deal when sht happens.... Make the most of it and less stressing... It would never be as planned.. but it would be something...😀🎄⛄🥶 Happy New Year and Best Wishes,🎉🥳🎇
I am USN Veteran who served on 3 aircraft carriers. nobody "Hated" anyone. there were differences of opinions. But as the old saying goes, " Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one"... I was a plane captain, ensuring that my particular aircraft was ready and prepared safe for the pilot (officer) to fly. I took pride in my job. and got lots of respect for it.
Started out as an E3 on a carrier (CV-63) and yes the officers had better quarters, better food, better heads, head of the line privileges, cleaning service, laundry service. They had all these benefits because they earned it. I had every opportunity to go to college earn a degree that was useful to the Navy and work towards a commission. I chose to go enlisted which is a faster path to service and does not carry the heavy burden of greater responsibility. I did not have any hatred or animosity towards the officers on our ship, at least in my time young sailors were mentored well enough to understand this.
Many years ago, as a mid-grade (division) officer, I engaged in a lively argument with one of the very junior sailors (about 2 years in the Navy) in my division. It seems he couldn't understand why the Commanding Officer (20+ years in the Navy) was given a parking space closer to the ship's berth than him. This video seems to take the same myopic viewpoint of life.
I think that it probably comes with the fact if a enlisted individual messes up he gets some sort of punishment, if a officer messes up, say letting jet fuel leak into drinking water. They get a promotion, it also dosent help when officers in charge of safety drop the ball and let a ship catch on fire and try and railroad a sailor who was clearly innocent
@@dogguy8603 that railroading was a sad state of affairs..reminded me of the railroading of that one dead gun crew member on the 16 inch gun explosion on BB.
@@deusvult6920 On submarines, life is very different and there isn't OFFICER COUNTRY. IN NUKE life back aft, when an officer starts to qualify he has to get checkouts and signoffs from the "experts" on different systems. I remember one particular E Div checkout that was fine until what they called the "oulies" where they asked questions that couldn't be answered from the manuals, you simply had to find someone who was willing to give you a little help. The point is in submarine life you learned really quickly that no matter what your education background, you were one of the crew and the submarine was only as effective as the crew was. Once you make Lt (O-3), you get a bit more responsibility and "prestige" but even the O-4's (L'CDR) were still not very special. One thing that was learned quickly, don't screw with any LPO or Chief. And the Chief of the Boat (COB), the XO and especially the CO were NOT to be disrespected in any way. All of these people knew how to use the system to make things right.
I was an Air Force officer long ago. The allowance for meals was not enough to pay for 3 meals a day for a month when I was in the field. The one time uniform allowance also did not cover expenses. Not a big deal, but worth noting.
Retired FC, I came to realize the Navy is structured less like a military branch and more like a business: officers are executives, blue shirts are the workforce, chiefs are the managers. Department, divisions and work centers are how we're organized. Even the name of the departments are corporate, i.e. Logistics, Operations, Administration, Engineering.
First, all branches of service are structured this way, not just the Navy. And no, officers are more managerial; CPOs do manage, but they mostly lead. There's a difference.
@J. P. Not really. In the Navy the divide between Officer and Enlisted are more distinct than other branches. As for chiefs, they are managers. Officer do more PowerPoint briefing, paperwork approving and addressing higher up than chiefs. Chiefs manage their people: they delegate authority in the division, have the most influence on performance assessment evaluations, and have the most say on who should go to available schools
@@seanthomxx2694 I spent well over 20 yrs in the Navy. CPOs pride themselves as leaders because they train both officers and enlisted. Officers are overall in charge and thus, manage the organization.
@@seanthomxx2694 "Deckplate Leadership" is a phrase used by the Chiefs' Mess. The Navy looks to them for leadership. That's why they're the backbone of the Navy. They train all hands.
@J. P. when I think of a manager, I think of a leader that is present at the operation (i.e. deckplate leadership). When I think of the executives, I think of a person who'll consult with the manager on status and progress and go to report that status to higher up via briefs, memo and messages. I'm not taking leadership away from CPOs Mess , but I think we have different view of manager and exec.
I served on three ships in my nearly 5 years in the NAVY. I never heard of anyone hating an Officer or NCO for having better food or berthing arrangements. I have seen some hated because of a poor and haughty attitude or incompetence. But that was fairly rare.
I was a enlisted E3 on the USS George Washington and got very sick with some kind of stomach virus. I went to medical 3 times and was told they didn't have time to see me. On my 3rd visit trying to see someone, a officer skipped the line of the enlisted to go get something looked at with his teeth. I woke up the next day, put on my clothes, and went to muster in the hanger bay. Feeling sick I couldn't stand anymore and had to be carried by two of my fellow sailors to medical. When I arrived in medical they were trying to say they couldn't help me again!!! The guys that were carrying me had to yell and basically say this guy needs help asap!!! Finally, got seen in medical and they had to put two IV bags in me. So, the point I am trying to make is of course officers should get better treatment, but the enlisted should not be treated how I was treated. I am happy I did my time and am out of the Navy.
I was on the GW as well. I know the elitism you’re talking about. Officers could do whatever they wanted on that ship. Enlisted were treated like crap a good portion of the time.
As a Navy Veteran who served aboard the USS Forrestal (CV-59), I can say sailor didn't hate officers per se. It is more about personality differences, some people just don't click. More to the point, the officers lived in staterooms, which didn't appear to me too much of an upgrade to me. I used to go into Officer's Country to wind the clocks and can say the only real nice staterooms belonged to the Ship's Captain and Executive officer plus the Flag stateroom. All the rest were spartan, in my opinion. In port, I would often walk up the the airwing officer's country to use the head there, since they were gone. The head and shower was the same as the one in my own berthing area, except without the 20 sailors...hehe.
What you needed was a S-7 buddy who was in charge of the Capts Galley/Cabin. Good steaks from the Capts Galley after hours at Shuckers eating Oysters and finishing the night with Flaming Jelly Beans........
why doesn't the navy simply allow girls to pleasure the men? bring them onboard like a strip club or something. great for morale. men living with only men all men all the time. I mean come on man. that's nuts.
Having served on 2 ships and been underway on a 3rd as an officer I can realistically say the food is the same between the wardroom and the crews mess. I actually found sometimes the mess was better than the wardroom. Especially on small boys all the food comes from the same galley it just gets taken up a couple decks to the wardroom
@@leonardnordenstrom1463 People aren't allowed to have more than one thought at a time, or talk about things that you don't deem important when you think they should talk about them? I would think for somebody that served with the Patriots on the GW, you'd have a broader comprehension than that.
Both menus were posted in the Plan of the Day. I remember days when the wardroom was served peanut butter soup. I also remember the junior duty officers would try to be on watch at mealtimes. They told me the best chow they they got was when they fulfilled their duty to "sample the crew's mess".
I served on the midway from 1979 to 1981 in the boiler room. I never heard anything about officers and enlisted men this and that . This is America the education I got from the Navy is all I needed to improve my life because of bad public schools.
I was an officer on a SpruCan. Junior officers shared a stateroom with one other. We cleaned it ourselves as far as the day to day stuff, but once a month a sailor would strip and wax the deck and deep clean on top of lockers and the bulkhead nooks and crannies. Captain, Xo, and ops boss had their own. We did get our uniforms pressed but the food was sent up from the same galley as enlisted men, but we did have a stocked frig and freezer in the ward room for snacks and sandwiches. We did have to pay for food - I think around 200 a month while underway and about 50 in home port. We also had our own slush fund for the snacks and usually hooked up the enlisted guys that served us in the ward room - they were new sailors and did a 3 month rotation either through the ward room, chiefs mess, or enlisted mess. What was interesting about “the hierarchy” of command on our ship was the impact a good chief had on the divisions. I had a terrific chief as an ensign as DC officer and then I got first division - deck sailors that were super important to so many aspects of being underway, but just a total wild card of competencies and half of them were just complete misfits that were completely unmanageable. I only had a first class that would never make chief for the first few months and it was a disaster. Right before we deployed for 7 months, we got a senior chief boatswain mate of 30 years and he put the fear of god into those guys - something I couldn’t ever achieve at 24 years old and 1 year of experience on a ship. So yeah… officers are top of the pecking order, but it’s the salty chiefs that get stuff done. They all shared a berthing (with the exception of CMC) and of all the berthings on the ship - some of which had over 60 stinky sailors in them- the chiefs quarters smelled THE WORST. Those old effers just didn’t GAF anymore or were just that used to it, idk.
Aboard deployed carriers junior officers (O-3 and below) often share quarters other officers. Private quarters are rare at that rank. Great username by the way.
I never knew what good leadership was until I left the Navy and started working in civilian life. Naval officers are the best. They actually cared about you, very much until you got short and were not gonna re-up.
I spent 28 years on submarines as enlisted and can confidently say there was not one officer I ever hated. There may have been one commanding officer I might not have been too fond of but that was about it. Everybody had a job to do no one begrudged anyone their living conditions on the ship.
I rode a boomer 77 - 79 and in such quarters, O gang had to get along with the crew, there is no place to hide. academy grads were full of themselves and it would take an A ganger to make them realize their place in the crew. everyone who earned their dolphins had to go through A gang!
Was also a submariner. I wouldn't use the word hate but I was indifferent about three officers (including my first CO). Two was very "but in the academy" and my first CO was completely disconnected from his crew. Luckily I only had to deal with most of these people on my first year at my command. Other than those guys every officer in my command were the boys. Some preferred to hang out with us A-gangers than with the Wardroom. Overall our officers were great and no one held any resentment for them.
"If you have a question, ask an officer. An officer will always answer your question. Now if you want the correct answer to your question ask your Chief." Words of Advice from my Aunt, a Navy officer and nurse training a bunch of corpsmen.
Officers know what they have been taught in their schools. NCO's know what they have learned in their career. Sometimes you get lucky and that's the same thing.
@@jhonyermo My last Division Officer had a degree in Chemistry. That's fine, unless you are the Electrical Division officer in the Engineering Department. He was actually an excellent Divo. We Petty Officers (NCOs) made sure that we trained him appropriately so that he would have the right answers. That is how Ensigns make LT Jg...
I was a plane captain. In charge of an aircraft an A6 Intruder. I never hated any of the officer I seved under, but I did have to teach one a valuable lesson. He was a Lieutenant who jumped me for not saluting him. Everytime he came to the flight line the aircraft systems went down. Finally a senior pilot talked to him and said if you don't fly you don't get flight pay. Whoever you pissed of go apologize. He came to me and made amends and was good to go after that. Amazing what a little circuit breaker can do.
Sailors on an aircraft carrier do not hate officers. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for a year U.S.S. Shangri-La had a great time and rode her around the horn of South America. We did respect the officers we served with.
Does anyone here think this difference is reserved only for the military. Work in a major corporation and you too will experience multiple levels of management...some are even competent.
And the difference between how a CEO lives and how their lowest paid employees live is MUCH greater than the difference between officers, even the Captain, and enlisted on any ship in the US or any other Navy.
@@brucetucker4847 I can likewise guarantee that difference is not terribly relevant. Compare income of the lowest enlisted man vs. a entry level employee in a large corp. Could that E1 survive on that income outside the Navy?
It's the same literally everywhere on Earth. There's the "ruling class" and the "working class". Always has been. Obviously in modern society, the classes are less cut and dry. Engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. are very respected despite being still being "working class". But the dynamic is still reminiscent to how it was throughout history. You have the managers and the workers. There's usually mutual respect these days, but not always.
Navy vet here. I really appreciate all the other Navy vets coming in to comment about how there is no hate between the ranks. We are all part of the same team and we've got a job to do and we do it proudly.
Sadly for me there was a great deal of hatred between enlisted and officers. It stemmed from the officers not treating the enlisted like they were human beings, but more like slaves to be ordered around. Many folk had different experiences. Mine was full of animosity, cruelty, and in the end, hatred.
I was an MS on USS TARAWA LHA-1, from 1986-89. The officers are the same quality food as the enlisted. Their MS's only had to cook for a couple hundred Navy and Marine officers whereas the MS's that cooked for the crew served up 9K-10K meals a day. The CO had his own cook as did ComSincPac, when on board, have his own book also. Now, the chiefs/NCO's are the best as they are the ones who pay for their own meals. They buy their own provisions dedicated to their pay. They are the ones that eat the best on board a carrier. Whoever supplied the info for this video got it all wrong. As a side note: our crew are very well. About half of the MSs I served w/ went on to professional culinary gigs after they served their time. I am now a retired chef of 30 years.
Navy cookies are the best. There was more then one time we'd be crawling up the brow. Broke, drunk, and hungry. We'd find that one MS who was still up and get him to open up the galley. There was a little bit of horse trading though.. The next Sunday that he was on duty, us dumb asses would have man the griddle. So's he could sleep in and shit. I was on a CG, so inport Sunday morning wasn't that bad. Damn, it was fun though. It's one of things that you'll never be able to live again.
MS aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) from 86-89, went and did everything from diner to fine dining for almost 20 yrs after until health issues prevented me from working the hours/spending time on my feet 🙂
@@derrikgilmore5975 I spent a total of 40 years in the culinary industry, 30 of which I was cheffing. I, too, had to retire after medical troubles back in 2017. Thanx for your time and service, shipmate.
I spent over nine months at sea on an aircraft carrier while attached to a squadron as part of Carrier Air Wing 3. Can’t recall hating any officers. Yes they had better conditions than enlisted men, as did the CPOs, but that’s life.
I can count on one hand the number of Officers that I served with that I hated. I could use my fingers and toes and still not have enough to list every Senior enlisted that I hate and would not piss on to put the fire that was raging on them out. It's a matter of treating people wit dignity and respect. Some people do and some people don't. Welcome to life.
Important to note that there are simply more enlisted people than there are officers. Stands to reason there would be more fuckhead enlisted than fuckhead officers. But yeah, I feel like Officers tend to have had better childhoods that made sure they were more likely to achieve higher education. A rough upbringing is a surefire way to make someone be bitter at life as whole. Just one contributing factor that I think is at play. Officers have always had easier lives, so it's easier to be a decent person. That's just how I currently see it as a college grad trying to commission. Far from a general rule, just that there's probably some truth to it.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk in the 80s with more than 5,000 crew including the Air Wing when deployed. Officers will always have better living conditions onboard. It has always been like that. I was lucky enough to have just 10 sailors in our berthing. We didn’t have internet or smart phones back then just VCR VHS, and Betamax. 😂
I was a Marine attached to the Kittyhawk as well 76-78 and there were 60 Marines in our one berthing area. Tight quarters man but we were all young and made the best of it. Better that being in the field for many days at a time so Marines may be a bit more forgiving about where they lay their heads. Lol
Obviously, you didn't see any of the junior officer's quarters on the O3 level. I spent two years on the Kitty Hawk 2000-2002 and slept in a 12-man junior officers berthing right behind Cat 2 steam room. Every time they launched off Cat 2 our berthing turned into a rainforest!
@@jerryware5749 damn straight baby and I was jamming Journey and Saturday Night Fever in the same night! Go figure some lil home boy from Flint Michigan!
I was in the USAF, there was one cafeteria, offers paid, enlisted didn't unless on seperate rations. The delineation between officers and enlisted was there but not like our sister services. Maybe because the history of it being crew based. Even though in most cases it's not a flight crew as in a bomber, those crews ate together. It wasn't uncommon to have mixed ranks eat together, I was a medic and may have been the reason. But, have went to eat, and one of the doc's or nurses was by themselves and ask if they can sit. Not uncommon, I'm sure it was the same for air maintenance and their pilots.
I was at Charleston in the mid 60s. Got orders for Pakistan. In Karachi we stayed at the Embassy while commercial transportation was arranged. Walked into dining area one day and saw a loadmaster that I knew, he waved me over to his table there were five or six guys sitting there. His comment to me was "what the hell are you doing here"? When I told him I was assigned to Peshawar, guy at the table said "who did you piss off? Turned out it was the entire crew of a C-130 on their RON. There was no rank showing because of civilian clothes but it was a mix of officer and enlisted. Crews had a close relationship.
I served on two different carriers and in four different division and had some excellent officers, my wife at the time had to have emergency surgery and he walked my emergency leave request, are you out there Lt Forbes, thank you....
When I was in USAF at Eglin AFB 73-75 we had one of the best how halls in air force. Officers ate with us. It wasn't uncommon to have 2 star generals waiting in line to eat. They had to pay their dollar though and us enlisted ate free.
Whoever wrote this is really off the spot! On a carrier the pilots who are all Naval Officers are like the rock stars! I was an ABH3 V1 Div Crash and Salvage. We really loved our Officers. My Divos were some of the coolest dudes I'd met! So enlisted don't hate officers at all!
Brown shoe officers are much different from black shoes. A brown shoes would never tell his maintenance man about how stupid he is. If the that sailor is stupid pilot's aircraft may land sooner than intended. A black shoe told me how stupid I was because he learned how to operate my machine in 9 weeks. Because it took me 2 years to learn my job. I just let him ramble on. I knew that the course was the same for officer and enlisted for the operator. Just taught in separate class rooms. I spent 104 weeks at 40 hours a week in classroom learning RF, analog & digital design and code operation to maintain, repair and modify it. I also had manuals in the safe that went beyond the basic operation to study to make 2nd and 1st class promotions.
We used to call the Fleet Air Arm "WAFU'S".... because they were "Wet And F****** Useless"!!! But all in fun. They had a few choice words for Engineering staff too!
When you are as they say "all in the same boat" you can't waste your time hating or being jealous of anyone's sleeping, eating, or working conditions. Everyone has job to do.
What is interesting is the fact that I went from E1 to E9 ESWS. DIRECT commision to O1 retired as an 03 SWO This video doesn’t really relate the reality I was on two destroyers, two missile cruisers an aircraft carrier special forces boat units And spent my last three years teaching new recruits how to fight fires and do damage control
The commentator of this video is incorrect. A 4-year degree is NOT required to become a commissioned officer. One can obtained a Warrant or an LDO commission without a degree. A sailor is also a term used for commissioned officers too.
I was an enlisted E5 Aviation Machinist Mate I did three 9 month cruises on Aircraft Carriers working as a Plane Captain. I never HATED an Officer, I ENVIED them. I could have been an officer but I was raised in a lower middle-class neighborhood, my parents never finished high school and didn't have the know-how or money to see me to college. Mind you that there was no internet in 1966 - info on how to accomplish things was scarce.
I was a Corpsman from 1972-1976. In the fall of 1974, I was TDY on the USS Ranger and the USS Coral Sea for two weeks each. I was an E4 at the time and my impression was that the living arrangements for enlisted was appropriate considering our ranks. There is no possible way to provide officer-like accommodations for all 5,000 people - there simply isn’t enough room. And I certainly did not hate the officers for having more comfortable quarters than us. However - if the enlisted living conditions were close to unbearable like it was on the Coral Sea back then, then there are going to be problems. On the Coral Sea the enlisted heads were filthy and didn’t have any toilet paper. Men would stand in the chow line for 30 minutes and have to go back to work on the flight deck due to the long waiting lines without getting any food. While I was the Coral Sea, a person or persons began setting fires in the unoccupied berthing areas, apparently in protest of the poor living conditions. The CO of the Coral Sea went on TV to offer a $500 reward of his own money for information on whoever was doing it. He finally wised up and gathered a focus group of enlisted people who voiced their complaints about the heads and the food. The CO then ordered the heads to cleaned on a hourly basis and he created an express chow line which served hot dogs, pop, and milk so people would get some hot food during their lunch breaks.
I thought I had it rough back in high school. When lunch begins, I use the restroom, wash my hands, wait a few minutes in line, and rush to finish my food before lunch time ends. Though I know that things can always be worse.
I did Westpac with the coral sea in 74" on the uss Richard s Edwards DD950,just was thinking a few weeks ago on all the meals I missed on the ship,that still pisses me off.on top of that I lost my hearing at age 20 from shipyards.oh well ,thanks!
I was on the Ranger 77-80.I was E2-E4 E-Div ships company. PNA on the E5 test, we had enough E5's already. I had no idea the Coral Sea had so many problems. You didn't see that on the Ranger did you? The cleanliness issues is just poop coop leadership Ours were clean and maintained many times a day or someone (senior) went to capt's mast. My coop was all the way aft under the fan tail. 180 men and I think the renovation put it to over 200. I never gave the conditions of officers much thought. Most of the officers on ship I had contact with were pilots and with the hours those guys put in? They needed the extra benefits just to stay useful in the air.
@@Maxid1 No, the Ranger didn’t have problems like the Coral Sea did. You were on the Ranger three years after me? Maybe the word got around the leadership levels that neglecting the living conditions of the enlisted people creates big problems.
During my service in the Navy, I lived on 3 amphibious ships: 2 helicopter carriers and a tank landing ship, and I never hated officers! I realized that they had their jobs to do that entailed a tremendous degree of responsibility, initiative and performance, much more so than that which was expected of me, even though that was a great deal as well, concerning my normal duties as an Electrician's Mate. In view of this, as far as I was concerned, they deserved the exalted status, quirks and extra pay that was allocated them! Another thing to consider and that is, if enlisted men got into a spot of trouble, the disciplinary action that normally followed was usually somewhat limited, and after a procedure of non-judicial punishment, (Captain's Mast), he was returned to his normal duties, apparently less the worse for wear. In the case of an officer however, depending upon the nature of the offense, the aftermath conceivably could be viewed so serious in the eyes of his superiors, as to cost him his career and subsequently would be drummed out of the Service! There is a reason for the chain of comnand in the Service, and no organization could survive without it! Case in point, could you have a football team, if everybody wanted to do "his thing"?
As another -"Sparky" , EM-2 , I agree, but seen some "Messed" up Officers, who thought they were "BETTER" & my Master Chief, pointed that out to a "SMARTY" pants Lt.jg, who degraded me when I was a EMFN. I still thank, & remember IC Master Chief, Bostic, in 1978. for showing me that "Enlisted" run the ship.
I was an IT for 18 of my 20 years in uniform. I never met an officer who held themselves to as high a standard as they held their enlisted subordinates. There was always an excuse, or they were always let off. Reading porn on watch, dumping their responsibilities on their subordinates because they didn't feel like doing them, disregarding regulations because they were inconvenient, inventing regulations to justify derelict or abusive behavior, and the old standby of how they always knew better about anything and everything simply because they were officers so don't you DARE try to correct them. And even if an officer DID get caught, 99+ times out of a hundred thy would pass the blame off on their subordinates somehow. I was personally threatened with Captain's Mast twice for incidents I had no direct involvement with because the officer that was pointed the finger at me (and being an officer, their word was accepted as unchallengeable gospel), and had to stand silent at quarters three times to watch an officer receive an award they'd given themselves for my work while I received nothing. "tremendous degree of responsibility, initiative and performance???" Try take the credit and pass the blame.
I was ship's secretary for my last tour of duty and of course legal yeoman, so i dealt with officers on a daily basis. in war there was no animosity. i understood that they needed the extra space due to their extra responsibility
Clearly you never served. Every officer I ever met (20 years Navy) who was called a sailor took offense and promptly corrected whoever said that (with the level of their hostility based on the status of the speaker) that only enlisted people were sailors.
Thank you for this post. Unfortunately, there are idiot naval officers who truly say that there are "officers and Sailors". If you ask a USMC officer if he/she is a Marine, he/she will say hell yes I'm a Marine. You don't hear them say "officers and Marines".
My dad was a general line officer. He was CO of minesweepers, and two research ships during National Oceanographic Year. He loved that command because he was able to share the mess with so many highly educated scholars who were on board for the duration. In the 50’s the CO generally ate by himself in his cabin, occasionally joining the officers mess for a meal. For the children, if the ship was in port for Thanksgiving, Christmas, or some other holiday, officer’s families would be invited for a meal on board. It was a big deal. In later life after Dads retirement we would often be visited by some of Dad’s former shipmates, both enlisted and officers. I think my dad was greatly respected for his fairness. He once encountered a reprimand from an admiral who requested his Filipino stewards to serve at a party on the flagship when he had promised them shore leave in Philippines to visit their families. He stuck to his guns and got a major dressing down.
an officer could be a disciplinarian (of sorts...) but if he had cast iron sense of fairness and stuck to it his men knew it and would follow him anywhere. that was the gist of what i got from family members who served in world war one, world war two, korea, the cold war. My great uncle served on the western front 1916 to 1919 and he said "a fair officer could make your life bearable". And that was in world war one. RIP uncle george. i miss those long talks with you.
I was in the Marine Corps from 1956 to 1962. I spent two years in the active reserves and three years on active duty. I was enlisted; I rose to E-5. I don't recall enlisted men hating officers, but it was crystal clear, even to a youngster, that officers simply live better than enlisted personnel. The hierarchy of the military convinced me that I did not want to make a career in the Marines, but I am glad that I served. It made me a better person.
well, god bless you Paul. i am a retired navy E6. after knowing your count I am asking that are a better person than you think you are. Marines fight all day and then some. You are a hero to me, paul. GOD BLESS YOUR SPIRIT DES CORPS!
I was TAD in the Wardroom(where officers eat) on my last deployment. I will say the pilots and aircrew never complained about anything. Some the ship officers on the other hand were quite grouchy. But I never hated any officers. I just hated the job. Thank god I’m an Aviation Structural Mechanic.
I served ;in the Marine Corps as an infantry officer for 21 years with 3 years in combat. My first assignment after graduating from the basic officer course (six months) was a a Marine platoon commanding in 'Vietnam 1968-69. During my time in the Marines I was deployed on several amphibious deployments. I can't speak to how the sailors and ship's officers quarters were like, but I can tell you that the troop spaces were super crowded with very small lockers about the size of a portable TV in those days. Marine officers were assigned to 4 per small room. The CO of Troops (the senior Marine aboard and responsible for all embarked Marines) had a small private room with a regular size locker. Marines were assigned to various tasks to supplement the sailors. For example Marines worked along side of the Navy cooks in the galley cooking, serving, and washing dishes. Others were assigned to man the twin 40 mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns for which we had never received training. Luckily there were never any such drills and there were no aircraft threats to the ship. Marines also augmented the Navy's laundry section. The food was just OK. Marines ate whatever was served to the crew. Both Marine and Navy officers ate in the Ward Room. Meals were served in several seatings as the Ward Room was never large enough to seat everyone. Officer meals were prepared by Filipino cooks and waiters. In those days there was a Navy tradition that Filipinos could volunteer to serve as cooks and waiters in most Navy officer messes. I don't think that is done anymore, but things change. Once a week there would be a movie projected on a pull down screen from a movie projector. Each officer was allowed one cup of popcorn. It was a challenge to keep the Marines motivated. Platoons would do physical fitness on the helicopter deck which was extremely hot. Daily cleaning of the troop compartment and the Ship's XO would inspect them every morning to ensure they were spotless. We held classes on weapons and tactics, etc. I remember that the entire ship smelled like diesel fuel. In severe weather, the Marines in the troop compartments would be strapped into their bunks and when the weather cleared we had to spend extra time cleaning up the vomit. We got caught in a Typhoon one night and the ship was taking 30 degree snap rolls from port to starboard. That was a wild ride.
I was Navy Corpsman and spent a lot of time being pissed on by torrential rain in Camp Lejeune, sleeping, if possible, in the field. I later served as ships company on the USS Ponce and I absolutely remember how the marines slept and lived on our ship. I’d take the ship over sleeping in the field any day of the week. I don’t bitch about it, as I was happy to serve my Marine brothers, but I think anyone who’s ever served in the chigger infested woods would probably agree. 😊
@@michaeldumais1784 One of the weeks during CORTRAMID (which was my 4/C cruise) was to spend a week with a Marine Corps unit. After a couple of hours, I was confirmed in my decision that being a Marine Option midshipman was not for me.
Filipinos, who had served in the U.S. Navy as early as the Civil War, began enlisting in larger numbers after the U.S. took possession of the Philippines following the Spanish-American War. The Philippines gained independence in 1946, and an agreement negotiated the next year allowed the U.S. Navy to recruit Filipino nationals. Over the next four decades, about 35,000 Filipinos served in the Navy, initially as stewards and mess attendants. Eligible to serve in all enlisted and officer positions by the 1970s, they later rose to the Navy’s highest ranks.
I was in the Coast Guard and achieved the rank of E6 (1st class petty officer) in 3 1/2 years. Just before my time was done I was debating whether to re-enlist or not. Even though time was short, for shits and giggles I took the Chiefs Exam for my rate. I thought I squeaked by on it but apparently I had a phenomenal score. When discussing this with the XO of my ship I told him I didn't think re-enlistment was for me, only 2 jobs....teaching at the school or a big white high endurance cutter which = underway. I was crazy in love with my new gf at the time. A few weeks later my division officer called me to his stateroom and showed me a letter from the Area Command: I qualified for and could enroll in OCS (officers candidate school) and become a commissioned Warrant Officer upon completion, opening up vast new career possibilities for me. Most likely I could never reach the rank of Captain or Commander without an Academy degree, but even as a Lt., I had many possibilities even CO of a small unit. I struggled with the decision and I left the USCG cuz.....I was in love. I often think about what if....though I can't complain. I've done ok and that gf is still my wife, 42 years this month.
This is horse shit. I went E-5. I did the Flight Deck Rodeo for the Line Rat King (wrapping my limbs in the bow safety netting and "riding out" a launch sortie... molten kerosene and 150mpg jet wash blasting my body everywhere. Cowarding out would be suicide, as in written up as a suicide, you would plunge to the screws because Rat King hates a coward). All that stuff. Senior Enlisted run the Navy. And enlisted do not resent the officers. Complete horseshit. We liked the officers, they treated us nice.
I was on board the USS America in S-2 division...i was with a Squadron (VA-46 at the time) and no disrespect hated all the Airedales in the squadron but enjoyed all the people on board the ship!
Army officer here. In the field we tend to sleep in the same conditions as our enlisted. Though we may sometimes be segregated when training or deployed, it is rarely with better conditions. Maybe the commander and most senior officers and senior-most enlisted get their own rooms at barracks, but that is about it.
Did both the Navy and Army. The Army was pretty consistent with everyone being in the same conditions aside from the Commander and 1SG. The Navy was very big on officers being taken care even at the expense of Sailors. Hundreds of new Sailors are assigned to clean the officers hallways, clean/press their laundry, and cook their far superior food. After months at sea it can get tough to not resent officers for the better conditions they are allowed.
US Army EM 1968-1971: Officers were segregated in our REMF unit in Vietnam. They ate from the same Mess Hall but in separated space. Their barracks had individual rooms. Their showers had running water and latrines had flush toilets. We only had 2 Commissioned & 1 Chief Warrant Officer. The Colonel lived in a mobile home with a private bath and patio.
When I was commissioned in the Army in '81, the officers in garrison ate separately at a officers table in the mess hall or at the officers club. Fast forward to the late '90's when I was a battalion commander things changed. I stood in line with the rest of the troops at the DFAC but the officers still ate at separate tables from the enlisted. But as the battalion commander rarely would people invite themselves to sit and break bread with the BC. The only persons who could sit down uninvited were my CSM, my XO and the three. But their was always the soldier who was brave enough to sit with the BC and just talk. As a leader you learn a lot from those conversations. In the field everybody ate and slept together. Many times I slept in the back of my HUMWVE or in or on my track and only hours at a time. If we had time to set up a hooch then the command section. would set up some tents. Many a time I ate on the hood of my HUMWVEE or on the ramp of my track. it just goes with the territory and the responsibility. but, I will tell you this, in the field officers eat last and they eat what is left. The enlisted soldiers get fed first and chow sent forward better be hot.
@@destroyer0685 Sir, I am greatly encouraged! In January 1971 my unit CO & First Sergeant picked me to attend the first in a series of "Vol Ar Rap Sessions." [This non-military phrase was always spat out derisively with air quote gestures.] The Ft. Huachuca Garrison Commander (O-6) was being forced by Department of the Army to speak directly with us lowly EM's (E-3 through E-5, as I recall). I was the "short timer" in my unit and one of only 3 Vietnam "Returnees" in the unit, so they picked me. I already had an approved early out to return to college. The "Vol Ar Rap Sessions" were intended to help the Army get ready for an all "volunteer" Army. Sadly, we were told to speak freely, with appropriate military decorum, with which I respectfully complied. The next, day our unfortunate unit First Sergeant got chewed out for sending a "bitter, outspoken short timer" to the meeting, and they threatened to take away my Separate Rations for my last 4 weeks of my 2 years, 9 months and 6 hours of Army life. Perhaps those of us stuck in those "Rap Sessions" [air quotes!] actually were heard. I sincerely, thank you for your Service and commitment. [Hand Salute] Blessings.
@@destroyer0685 Thanks for your service! I hear ya about ensuring the enlisted eat first! (And I've had a meal or two off the bumper of an LMTV come to think of it)
Officers typically have a bigger room because most officer work requires a computer and a bunch of paperwork and do a lot of work in there cabin. Sailors do most of their job at operating consoles and only ever really sleep in there bunk
Nimitz Plank Owner here. I was on the cargo team during my mess deck stint. Officer ate the same food as we did. They ate in a different mess. Worked for some great officers. Never hated any of them. But I did have a bottom bunk just like in this video. Real cozy....like a coffin. lol
was in the Navy in the early 90’s. Officers regularly talked down to enlisted sailors. but what really shocked me was officers also did it to other officers who didn’t go through the Naval Academy. we had a Ltjg who was our Auxiliary officer, went to Rice University and got his commission. they treated that good man like garbage.
I bunked on USS JFK for a week back in the early 90s, on loan from HMS Ark Royal. I was number four in a grotty four-man cabin - and this was Lt Cdr's accommodation 😱. On Ark, as a Lt equivalent (I was a Flight Lieutenant RAF on an exchange tour with the RN)I had my own cabin, which was equipped to a much higher standard. Oh - and we had a bar...😁
I Enlisted in 1979 17 years old spent 3 years Enlisted to E-5. Was sent to AOCS Feb 1983. Complete all Flight Training Dec 1984. Having known Enlisted life a few years. The Enlisted I was in charge had respect for me. As many times I still helped Change out Engines and Hydraulic components along side them. Sure the XO didn't like it. But my Air Frames/Power Plants Division had the best Moral scores.
I was a Marine Corp Officer that got commissioned through the enlisted ranks via the Naval Academy. Let me tell you I never ate as well as when I was and E-2. One of the things that I looked forward to was standing Officer of the Day. Because you HAD to eat ONE meal in the enlisted mess in your 24 hour duty. I LOVED THAT. Otherwise you had to eat at that O Club. I hated that. The food was overpriced and you did not get enough to fill you up.
I was assigned to a helicopter squadron, that was assigned to the aircraft carrier air wing. For a example: Two E-3's, the first E-3 out ranks the second E-3 by six months. The first E-3, has his or her choice of a rack in the berthing compartment, aboard the ship, over the second E-3, that is out ranked by the first E-3, by six months, until, a E-4 to E-5 comes along in the berthing compartment, then the E-4 or E-5, has first choice of a rack aboard the ship. E-6-E-9, have their own berthing compartment and mess, aboard the aircraft carrier. Occasionally, a E-6, or a junior officer, would eat at least one meal a day with the E-1-E-5 ranks, in the enlisted aft and forward mess decks aboard the aircraft carrier.
I started out enlisted. My first ship was new construction. One day I saw mattresses being loaded. Enlisted's were 2" thick, chief's (E7/8/9) were 3", officer's 4". I decided then that I'd be better off being an officer. I made it happen and retired as on O-5
As a young 2nd lieutenant I always ate the same food as the junior ranks and I was constantly criticised and moaned at for doing so but as I found that sometimes the quality, standard and the attitude was far better than the officers mess facilities, anyhoo my older but very wise CSM and RSM told me that how far do you know to push the men and women under your command unless you live like them as much as an officer is allowed to and eating the same food as them, it was very good advice and for the most part I tried to stick by what they advised me to do
I got shore duty, but the worst people I dealt with were senior enlisted. There was master chief who was terrible and also a senior chief who was a dk.
I was a Supply Officer on two aircraft carriers. When I would give tours I always showed my stateroom where 2 of us lived and one of the many enlisted quarters. Some slept over 150 sailors who would share a head with maybe 6 showers, 8 toilets, and 16 sinks. Really difficult living conditions when many of them are working different shifts. During the tour I would emphasize that a college education was the only difference between them and I. Rank does have its privilege. OBTW, it was the junior officers that were required to inspect enlisted quarters on a regular basis. In my 6 years on carriers, not once did any of the men complain to me. It was just the way it was.
Once you got used to enlisted racks, it's not that bad. Annoying sometimes, yes. My take on O's. I worked with some REALLY good Officers. Guys that could lead stink off of shit. Also some REALLY good LPO's and LCPO's.. There was a turd here and again in the Wardroom, along with the Goat Locker. Most were pretty good though. I served under two different XO's, and both were outstanding. Both always did berthing compartment inspections, and oversaw the mess decks. The only time I didn't see either one in the galley sampling food was during Midrats. Meh, it's leftovers.. The second SUPPO we had was a born leader. He retired a 2 or 3 star. We also had a Jg who never wanted to make eye contact when you walked by him in the passageway. He'd rather be distracted as you walked by. He preferred to be a wallflower. That LTJG is now the current CNO.
There is also some misrepresentation here. Junior Officers get more space than Enlisted Sailors but share a bunk room that accommodates 4 to 6 Officers. Depending on the ship class most officers don't get a private stateroom until they reach O-4 and sometimes O-5. Shipboard life is known to be cramped. If you want more space join the Air Force.
I did 20 years Air Force, 4 enlisted, 16 officer in aircraft maintenance. We sent a KC-135 from Blytheville AFB to Pensacola NAS for a weekend air show. The airplane carried appx 60 base personnel on an incentive ride as a perk. Everyone bailed off the airplane and hit base ops to change out of uniform before leaving base. To our surprise, there was an enlisted, an officer and a pilot's men's room. Some of the guys went in the officer and pilot's bathrooms. They were thrown out by the Navy personnel. It was 50 plus years ago. In comparison to the Air Force and Army bases that I have been around, the Navy has a stricter class system than the others. But, each service has their mission and are structured as to what works for them. I was able to pin my uncle in the Navy WO-4 on him at Kadena AB. I was a young first lieutenant. My office that I shared with my Branch NCOIC (an E-8)was twice as big as my uncle's office that he shared with 3 chiefs that ran the Navy's AIMD for the P3s. And it was stuffed under a stairwell. I asked him why so cramped since they were in a big aircraft hanger. They had the square footage allocated while onboard a carrier. The Navy did not want anybody to get comfortable on shore duty.
As a career AF senior NCO who did a joint tour at Pearl Harbor, I had similar revelations. And I came to the same conclusion: Each service has its own particular operational format appropriate for its own field of combat, and each service carries that operational format into its non-combat operations as well. Since we all win our battles, there's nothing to debate. But for sure: Never let a sailor design your office space.
Meh. As an enlisted guy, I never hated officers. I signed my enlistment papers. If I had wanted to be an officer, I would have gone to college first and then went through OCS or even better, cracked the books and tried to get into the Academy. I spent a total of over two years out at sea on ships and subs (I hopped around, but was never ship's company), and most of the guys I worked with didn't "hate" officers. After seeing the hours they had to put in and the fact that they often had to deal directly with senior officers, I didn't begrudge them a slightly bigger bed and extra dessert.
In the old days, chiefs ate the best food. In fact, officers would hope to get invited to eat in the CPO mess. Now days, all messes pretty much use the same food and same menu. There are only differences in the care given to prepare it. Chiefs generally decide who goes temporarily to which messes and tend to send the better Sailors to the CPO mess or wardroom. The S2 division decides where cooks all work and a CPO probably makes that decision also. Junior Officers sleep in 2 or 4 man rooms. CDR and above get their own stateroom. Enlisted personnel may have 170 people in one berthing but it's usually all within your same division or squadron. Chiefs can be in a pretty nice quarters usually by departments. Air Department is the ship's largest department consisting of about 600 personnel and around 30 chiefs. The Air CPO had 30 bunks and a separate lounge and head. If enlisted berthings or heads are not clean and well stocked with supplies, it's because the First Class Petty Officers that live there and the Chiefs that own the spaces are not doing their job.
On any and every USAF base the best food on the base is at the NCO club, hence everyday at lunch time there would be more commissioned officers eating there than anyone else, in my day we enlisted folks could only afford to drink there.
@@davidcole8448 I only went to the NCO club on Fairchild a few times. I admit the food was good, but as an SP, I had no way to get there for lunch. I also remember it was also a constant issue that people did not pay their charges timely and would find themselves on the shit list. The few times I went there I would pay in cash, even though I could charge. Finally, I realized that I just did not use the club, so I resigned my membership. This got back to my flight chief who gave me this line about the wing commander will not endorse an APR, unless you were a member of the NCO club. This did not persuade me, and I never went back.
The separation of the ranks sleeping arrangements and mess happens at more than just the E and O ranks. Chiefs have their own berthing and mess separate from the junior enlisted ranks. Sometimes even first classes have their own. Junior officers don't have a private wardroom like a Skipper or XO would. You did cover the reason why and it's not something that we hate but something we strive to get to in the ranks.
@jayphil while it’s true that officers and enlisted still have separate berthing (sleeping quarters) on the new Ford class carriers, the messes are all working from in many cases the very same kitchen, using a hub and spoke system so it’s not as though the Chiefs food will be much different from the E2 s food. Also, the sleeping situation for enlisted is vastly improved from cramming 180 sailors in small, hot, noisy pods. The Ford was designed for a better living experience for enlisted. Of course, officers still live in O Country.
The Officers, Chiefs, and Enlisted messed are all funded separately under Congressional appropriation. Officers COULD NOT take our mess stores just because they wanted to buy one deployment the O5 in charge of their mess spent their budget allotment on new China, Silverware, and a piano and had to beg for food from the Enlisted mess. We gave them mostly hot dogs.
@@mickfunny4185 I bet there are 250 spoiled Chiefs who ain't happy about that. I did my mess cooking in the Chiefs mess and there would have been some people missing off the fantail if someone had tried that back then
Happy to be a retired Navy Enlisted member. If I wanted it different the Navy provides a pathway. My service has been a catalyst for my life, my parents could not afford college. The Navy paid for my college and again I'm happy to have served. I loved serving! Go Navy, smooth sailing....
This is crap. I served 21 years in the Navy, retired ADCS (E8). Never did I hate an Officer, there were both Officer and enlisted that I did not like but that had more to do with character than rank.
I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 and USS Forrestal CV-59 and I cant think of a single officer that I served with that didnt earn that privilege.
Trust me as a Naval Veteran who grew up aboard The USS Theodore Roosevelt, I've lived in a berthing where me & all the E4 and below in my division had to live stacked 3 high. The food was actually amazing though
I spent four years in the Navy and never went to sea except to fly over it. They also paid us housing as soon as we made E-4 and we got meal allowance overseas.
Captains have those awesome quarters but usually have to sleep (when they get the chance) on bunks in little rooms next to the bridge. When things get busy, s/he has someone bring them a sandwich.
I was an officer in the merchant marine. Once, I encountered the ship of a former classmate who had taken a commission in the Navy. I invited him to lunch aboard my ship and he, in turn, invited me to lunch aboard his. I was astonished to learn that he actually had to PAY for my meal on his ship, while the meal that he ate on my ship cost nothing. Inviting a guest to dine in the saloon (that is the merchant marine term for what the Navy calls the "wardroom") is regarded as common courtesy. That was the first time I learned that Navy officers actually have to pay for the food that they eat. In the merchant marine everybody on board, regardless of rating, eats the same food, prepared in the same galley, and the company pays for it. I won't comment on which service has the better food because I know from experience that the quality of the food varies, depending upon the steward department on the individual ship. However my father, who served on a number of different types of US Navy during WW-II, assured me that the submarines had the best food, followed by the fleet oilers. When I was on merchant ships we in the Persians Gulf during the Gulf War and the Iraq Invasion we sometimes invited soldiers aboard to share our meals, which we were always happy to do because we knew that our food was better than whatever military rations the soldiers were issued. Although there is a distinction in status between "licensed" and "unlicensed" personnel in the merchant marine, it is not as pronounced as the caste system that exists in the military between "officers" and "enlisted men". Unlike the military, in the merchant marine the officers and engineers are not "commissioned". Instead they possess a "license", issued by the Coast Guard, which they earned by virtue passing a stringent series of exams. In other words the officers and engineers are recognized as being highly-trained professionals who have demonstrated their ability to undertake the jobs that they occupy, rather than mere "officers and gentlemen" assigned to a position of authority. Another difference is that, unlike the Navy, any merchant marine seafarer can advance to become a Captain or a Chief Engineer by virtue of passing the requisite license examinations, and many individuals have done exactly that. Indeed, many of the finest Captains and Chief Engineers "came up through the hawse pipe", as the saying goes.
Naval air vet here, enlisted (AMS2). All the officers in the squadron were pilots. However, it was the CPOs and enlisted plane captains who really ran things; and no hatred that I knew of. Don’t understand the direction of this video.
Incorrect. Destroyer is the best. You know everyone onboard (which helps with camaraderie and scratching each other's back). Also, you visit ports that CVs/CVNs can't visit because of their size. You also dont need to wait a million years to get off the ship after pulling in. For a carrier, it takes forever to moore, secure the brow, and get off on liberty not to mention lines are miles long just to eat onboard a carrier (unless you're a CPO or officer).
@@ruel1072 The Air Force was only good when it was compared to the Navy, Army, Marines, and Coast Guard. When we were compared to civilian life style...we didn't shine that well. Frankly I would have been proud to serve in any US armed force. I just had a "need for speed".. It's all good ! Retired flatbelly USAF MSgt...24 years. I do have to say the Navy's bell bottoms and light blue shirt was really cool....back in the day. O...I will say the Air Force was last on my list...I thought the other services were "cooler".
I served as an officer in the Army and agree with most of the comments below. There was no hatred. There were both decent and hard-working officers and enlisted soldiers. As a junior officer, I relied on and was immensely grateful to the seasoned NCOs who I relied on for my success.
I was an electrician on a carrier. I made friends and fixed things in all the mess decks. I could eat anywhere I wanted, even in the captains mess before him. Their food was not all that different, but they did get better condiments, like A1 sauce.
Naval officers are not hated, actually, quite the opposite. When I was in the Navy, I liked and admired most of the officers I met. They were usually kind, decent, and very intelligent people.
Gearing Tin Can sailor here ('69-'73), we were too small and too tight to have any kind of pissing contest between ranks. I always felt the officers above me did their best to ensure we were cared for and free to do our jobs as we saw fit, they only came down our hole (aft fireroom) for annual inspection or when G.Q. was set. We did a Magellan, surface raids and fire support in So. China Sea, plane guarded carriers, all that good sailor stuff, but you just couldn't beat tin can life; we'd pull into the most remote backwater ports for liberty, and *we'd own the town for a night,* no carriers or cruisers in sight or ashore, something a twenty-year-old kid can never forget, too old and crusty now to go back on the water- hence "on the beach"- aka "Beachside". ☺
Sailors do not hate officers. Hate is an extremely strong word. If anything sailors complain because officers have a slightly better life at sea depending on their job. Black Shoe officers work long hours similar to enlisted sailors while officers who fly have a much less hectic life to endure while at sea.
officers bear shoulder of command while sailors are the muscle i remember someone expalining why officers had their rank insignias on their shoulders while the sailors had their rank insignias on the side of their arms.
I worked for Newport News Shipbuilding as an electronics technician for the aircraft carriers NTDS systems as a civilian in the 80's and early 90's. the person that had the plushest conditions was the battle group Admiral. his state room living quarters was large and larger than the Commanding Officers, he had his own conference room, tactical room and an entire bridge on the tower. if it said "force" it was for him.
I liked a lot of these comments. My dad was a USN Master Chief Petty Officer and a very good man. I read a comment on a navy website a while ago and a sailor on a ship my dad served made a kind reference to my dad, Chief Jordan. I will never forget that!
I didn't hate officers, I respected them, and relied on them for guidance and mission readiness. As a Navy veteran, the officers I served under never let us down. We owe good officers a sense of gratitude.
I was exposed to both enlisted and officer berthing during my adult career. Working your way up the ladder gets you those privileges. And working for the government after the military gives you more "special" privileges not offered to either enlisted or officers while on military installations and ships..
I served in HS-2, which was a antisubmarine helicopter squadron. The squadron had 25 officers, which 23 where helicopter pilots, one warrant officer, and one started his Navy career as a enlisted man, and went to officers candidate school, and he became a "Mustang" officer. I was a Aviation Structural Mechanic, and I worked in Corrosion control shop. I mainly removed corrosion from the helicopters, and I did paint them, put on squadron marking on them, and repaired fiber glass on the helicopters. He tried to force me to work against what it said in the Corrosion Control manual. There where some E-6 to E-9, in the squadron, who worked with him in other helicopter squadrons, during the Vietnam war, and they all told me that he was lazy, he slept a lot, lack knowledge on what it takes to do structural of any kind on helicopters, and that he had a hard time going from E-5 to E-6, and that is why he went to officers candidate school. That was the only officer that I had problems with, because, he made all the problems for me, and he took all of his frustration out on me too. The other 24 officers in the squadron, I got along with all of them well. HS-2 was part of the airwing that was assigned to these two aircraft carriers, the USS Ranger CV-61, and the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63. We didn't have to salute the officers when the carriers where out at sea. The only time we saluted the officers, is when the ship had liberty call in a foreign port, or in port at North Island Naval Air Station, San Diego, CA.
I served 3 years on USS Nimitz as an intelligence specialist. I never felt contempt for my senior officers. I always respected them. They typically had more responsibility and much harder jobs. After serving both as an enlisted and an officer I worked as a pilot for American Airlines. The authority as a captain in the airlines was much more nuanced and at time more difficult. In the Navy it is clear cut.
Lcdr, USN, retired here, The officers generally eat the same food as the enlisted crew, it all comes from the same freezers and pantry storage. We have separate cooking and grilling of the meals. We sit at the wardroom dining table and the "mess cooks" bring us our meals. We don't stand in the chow line". The same applies to Subs. The biggest difference is that the officers pay a lot for our meals. At the end of each month the Supply Officer is in the wardroom with his money box and we pay in cash. Back in the 80's I paid up to $150.00 per month to eat the same food as the deck seaman who does NOT pay.
WRONG. . . Some of the best crews are tight, because they have a bond with leadership. Carriers are too big to have that close working relationship. Tin cans and smaller ones have it. On the submarine I was on, the Skipper was in crews mess, drinking coffee and visiting with the crew. He had his finger on the pulse and took care of his men and we took care of him. THAT is what makes for a close nit crew. 5000 plus on a bird farm, no way. Each division has a close working relationship, but the Captain can't know every
an officer is no longer a person of means, independently wealthy as it was in Washington's day. My dad was an officer and he was no more well to do than any enlisted man. He did have to pay for his own uniforms and food which I always that was stupid. His uniforms were way more expensive. He was USCG, Academy grad and retired as O-6
You're father also made bank. Stupid money compared to the rest of his crew. He also at that rank had a stateroom, got to eat in an area with much better food. He can say he wasn't that well off compared to enlisted but that's just ignorant
Enlisted pay for their Uniforms as well. Yes, they receive a Cothing Allowance to maintain their Sea Bag. As for meals, Enlisted will receive Per diem when not eating at the Galley on base. On deployment, you will lose it as you have Access to the Ships Mess Decks. Commissioned Officer have to pay for their Meals on deployment.
@@curtekstrom9531 enlisted get BAS. Depending on the command they may or may not allow the BAS to be taken. It is not per diem, or at least not in how the navy defines it. On a ship the BAS is taken out, in a command it may or may not get taken out. Regardless, an officer pays the same amount as the enlisted "pays" 10 bucks and some change per day. However in port, said officer doesn't get charged for not eating at the mess. Whereas enlisted still get their BAS taken. My point is, that regardless of paying or not, an officer still makes significantly more then their enlisted counterpart. Quality of life as an officer/khaki in the navy is significantly higher, and this is one of the few things they can complain about. However it's a near non existent complaint.
This is bilge! Every former Navy sailor I know who served on carriers had fairly good relationships with their officers for the most part. There were yahoos of course but you find that in all ranks in all the services. I was in the Army and Army Reserve for 26 1/2 yrs and the same held true there too.
I was a Boiler Tech onboard the USS CONSTELLATION (CV-64) 88-90. We didn't hate officers. As long as we were professional, they usually were. I once had an officer (whom had been recently qualified to do my job so he would understand his men) to relieve me two hours early and tell me to go get some extra sleep. (We were working 6 hours on and 6 hours off so you usually got about 4 hours each time you were off because you had to eat, shower, and handle any misc business or sometimes extra training on your off time.) I would have followed him to hell... I respected him that much.
hey shipmate, Connie (77-81), worked in the Jet Shop and had a soda mess back then, there were certain hours the soda mess was open. Anytime a SNIPE would show up, alway open only for them. We felt sorry for you guys. No daylight, loud, hot. Prisons are nicer than what you guys did.
I was deployed on the U.S.S. Lexington and U.S.S. NASSAU. I had no complaints about the food on the ship. Lobster & Steak Fridays! Always looking forward to it. 🇺🇲🇺🇲⚓⚓🛫
Did you know that there is such a difference in the life of an officer and a sailor aboard an aircraft carrier? Do you think that's justified? Or should sailors also have the same rights as officers and good sleeping quarters ❓💙
If you want Staterooms then Get a Commission.
It's called RHIP..Rank Has It's Privileges. It's been that way since the beginning of time. As Curt said...Want the best in the military? Well, you gotta earn it. Not everyone is officer material.
But, as my old pappy used to say...the world needs ditch diggers too!
Wrong The navy still take enlisted sailors food allowance even if they don’t eat 3 meals a day
@@lee051074 if you don't eat meals the Navy is Providing you. That's your fault. Navy Officers pay for their Meals while on ship/Deployment.
No, there's 5000 of us. There'd be no space for the aircraft. I didn't have any problem with the perks and privilege of rank. I mean the pay isn't
much of an inducement to take on the added responsibility. I just didn't care for how some 'Zeros' treated enlisted, especially the junior ones. By the time they made O5 or O6 they mostly got passed it.
There is a joke where a Sergeant on a dark night walked by Eisenhower and forgot to salute. When he realized his mistake he ran back to the general, saluted and Apologized. Eisenhower offered the man a cigarette, and told him "Sergeant the army does not care if you forget to salute a 5-star general." Then Eisenhower took a slow drag on his cigarette and said "But Sergeant, don't you ever forget to salute a 2nd Lieutenant."
lol!
LOLOL... sounds about right.
So true.R.I.P. Ike 🇺🇸
Lol! Got that right!
😂👍🏼
I am a Navy veteran who served aboard a super carrier as an enlisted man. The headline for this video is based on a lack of information: sailors do not hate offiecrs. In fact, some of the guys I served with who were officers were my best friends and some of the enlisted men aboard were hated.
Served on Forestall (as E5). I had no prob with Officers living 'better' the Enlisted. What seems to be different, was in 1970, E1-E6 slept in the same Berthing. OTOH E6 had a separate area for their 'Mess', E7-9 always had the CPO mess and Berthing.
You are correct shipmate! I retired as an E-6 but I still keep in touch with several Officers I was lucky enough to serve alongside. One of them is now living in San Diego and she and I keep in touch through Facebook. The Captain of my first Ship passed away a few years ago but that man helped me grow up and mature. I have always had the deepest respect for him. On the other hand one of the E-7s on my second Ship (I Refuse to call this psychopath a Chief) I would have gladly thrown overboard.
As an E-5 aboard the Constellation,we didn't hate officers, we just didn't usually have much respect for them til they wised up. About the time they would make LCDR.
Small unit enlisted men are close with their officers. I was in PBR from the 60s to the 80s. We were on first names bases.
I was on the IKE in 78&9 as a E4 then E5 and we respected officers we did not hate them. We also slept in open birthing. We were air wing.
Officers had what was called Officers County which had blue tile areas where we were not allowed in except for GQ. We used to love to say, Make Way, when we ran through that area for GQ!
I am a US Navy veteran who was a flight deck aircraft director. There was no hatred ever between the enlisted ranks and officers. In fact, there was a tremendous amount of respect demonstrated between both groups. The ships company (enlisted) needed and respected the ships officers. And the officers, especially the flight deck and hanger deck officers, showed tremendous respect for the Airedales on the ship. The function of the ship is impossible without both groups acting this way.
And it's a locker, not a 'cabinet'
no sorry sir we all hated junior officers, respect was given because if not well then you know what happens. not only your naval careen being fubar but your civilian as well. hat emight be a strong word, but you can imagine someone coming out of the academy who has never been on a ship outside his midshipman training that tries to manage everything with an iron fist knowing nothing of the command and doesnt care because its his way or mast for you. no we respected you but we didnt like you trust me
@@nateduquette3134 I don't believe you've served a day in your life.
you're a suck ass - they mean regular enlisted asshole
Well...because both groups realized that spinning props, rotors, jet engines, and jet blast didn't respect ANYONE.
As a retired Marine E-8 I want to say I served with a lot of great Naval Officers and Enlisted and made a lot of friends. As for the production of the video, this person has it all wrong and apparently has never served on any naval vessel. As a young marine I served aboard the USS Forrestal for a total of 12 months in 1972/73. I was a plane captain assigned to VMFA-531 the Gray Grost and spent a lot of time on the flight deck caring for the F-4 I was assigned to. Our sister squadron was VF-11, between the two of us we were a team and had a lot of respect for each other. As for officers there was a lot of respect for them, they had a hard job to do getting those aircraft on and off that carrier safely. They also had a lot of respect for the enlisted man, because they knew we were the ones that brought them back home save each and every flight. As for living quarters that was to be expected as an enlisted man and I can say it was not all that bad. I will say the chief petty officers and senior marines had a great mass hall, I know, I was assigned to get the food for the cook daily. So, hats off to each and every one of the naval chiefs and officers. Semper Fi my brothers!
Agreed. I was an enlisted Sailor and later an officer, and I served on several amphibious vessels. I kept hearing about how the Marines and Navy "hated each other", but apparently, the ships I was on never got that memo. The Marines were always awesome and total professionals. I was friends with many of them.
Thanks for your service and explanation on this. I hope you live to a ripe old age.🎉🎉🎉
VF 11 The Red Rippers
I see you mentioned Chiefs and officers in your thanks. Any thanks for E6 and below?
cool, I served on the Uss Forrestal Cv-59 from 1987-1991, flight deck ordnanceman. the only marines we had then were Mardet, for the special weapons, very interesting to know you guys were attached to the fid. I never knew.
I served 21 years in the Navy and on two aircraft carriers. Myself and the majority of the enlisted crew did not hate officers.
I served for almost 3 years on the USS Dwight D Eisenhower and I did not hate officers. I knew that they earned their place onboard and I could have too if I’d wanted to. I really never even thought about how they lived compared to me. I had two officer friends, one was an F-14 pilot that I went to church with, and the other was an F-14 RIO in the other squadron. We treated each other with mutual respect as shipmates should and that was that. As far as the differences in living conditions went, everyone onboard knew that the chiefs had the best life of anyone on the boat. They had great quarters and ate the best chow -far better than anyone in officer’s country. Chiefs were also the most respected because they knew everything about anything, and they damn sure earned their anchors! Whoever did this video is damn irresponsible and uninformed! GO NAVY!
Well said!
Chief Petty Officers... backbone of the Navy. EVERY Navy.
CPOs have better meals than commissioned officers and chief’s berthing is nice.
@@JaimeGarcia-pe7bj What's wrong Garcia? Is your propaganda failing?
@@wm.courtney9114 Excuse me?
I served 10 years in the Navy. There was no 'hate' between officers and enlisted sailors. In fact, many officers in the aircraft carrier were former enlisted sailors themselves. Moreover, US Navy Chief Petty Officers (CPO) have a unique role in delegating the duties of the day and provide an enlisted advisory role to the officers.
Most definitely. A wise junior officer (we call them "Ruperts") will ALWAYS seek guidance from a Chief. This is illustrated by the class of officer recruits during their basic training.
The Chief had his squad of new officers fallen in and told them..."from now on, I will call you Sir and you will call ME Sir. The only difference is, YOU will mean it"!
Always makes me chuckle...
@@TheRealist2022 I was in Flight Deck Control one day and the offers were standing around discussing the days evolution. When they all decided what needed to be done, every single one of those officers turned to the Flight Deck Chief and asked... asked... if what they'd planned could actually be done. They all waited with anxiety until the Senior Chief took a long drink of his coffee cup (aka "The Black Hole") and then nodded that it could. Those officers smiled like it was Christmas morning. One of the most surreal moments I witnessed as a young sailor.
You sound like butt kisser
its the chiefs that are hated btw not all but most, and for good reason as a lot of them belong to the cult of Joe.
no. most chief petty officers had it in for you. i know.
I served aboard a carrier, an amphib, two flag commands and a Seabee battalion, and not once did I hate any officer. There may have been differences in opinions, but no outright hatred. As a Navy veteran of 22 years, I saw a few of my subordinates become officers themselves. They became officers not in search of better conditions or to impose their authority over the enlisted people, but they became officers because they had the guts to lead, and they knew that if the enlisted ranks fail, the officer corps fail… and the mission fails.
Amen !
apparently russian and prc officer cadres are trained differently and treat their men differently, as well.
well, you are a better man than I sir. to call you sir, i know your are a sir means you are better than they.. .because you actually, worked for a living!
its true, those officers rose to the ranks to what they could be, and you saw it.
My son enlisted in the Army right after high school. He didn't want to go to college because he didn't like school and didn't know what career to pursue. He did love the infantry and excelled during his enlistment. But when he got out, he joined the Army National Guard, went to college on the GI Bill and got his degree. A year or so after graduating, he went back into the Army as a 2nd Lieutenant. He was recently promoted to Major and is now attending the Army Command and Staff College. I'm very proud of him - he earned whatever pay and benefits he receives. I know some enlisted guys hate officers, but they would probably hate anyone who outranked them, even though they have the same opportunities.
Sorry he had to go to military. I got in as an officer in Air Force (an engineer). I got out as soon as I could.
@@jkdm27 I went in as an officer, got out as soon as I could too. But my son likes the structure I guess, so he has been happy in the military.
@@jkdm27You’re sorry?
He didn’t have to do shit.
The army is ALL volunteer.
@@jkdm27 Sounds like your departure from the USAF was good for both you and the nation.
This video talks about the better living conditions officers enjoy vs enlisted aboard ship. The contrast isn’t nearly so stark in the Army, especially in the field.
My have things changed. I'm a Vietnam Navy Vet. and things were different back in those days. I was in a Navy Attack squadron and our Officers were great guys. They new that their lives were in our hands. Several of them went on Liberty with us and bought us drinks and a good night on the town. While bar hopping we addressed them by their rank or sir. They told us while on Liberty to knock that shit off. We have a first name like you. Back on ship it was back to the Navy norm. They often came by our shops aboard the carrier and shot the shit with us before a combat mission in Vietnam. We had the utmost respect for them as they did for us. Thats just the way it was. I lost my division officer as he was shot down south of the DMZ. He bailed out and made it on the ground but put up a fight against the NVA and was killed. He was one of the officers that took us on liberty. I have a tracing of his name from the Wall in D.C. RIP LT. Dan Borha😪
Yep. Our Divo's first name on board was "Ensign". On the beach his first name was "Tony". I honestly cannot remember him giving an actual order...We made sure that shit was done right so that he never HAD to give an order. Closest thing to an order was probably a very infrequent "It would be a help to me if..." or "I'd really appreciate it if..."
@@kevincrosby1760 a true leader
thank you for your service
@@THaulk Yep. He always had our backs, so we had his back. It's the way things should be.
Besides, he was an Ensign. I think that it is written somewhere that it is a responsibility of a Navy Petty Officer (NCO) to ensure that an Ensign is never forced to make a decision...
Thanks for your service, RIP Lt Dan
As a Navy Veteran , I can speak with first hand knowledge ,, very few Officers are hated ,,, just as in Civilian life there are a few Officers who just don’t get “it”,, how to lead and not “push” Men . New young Officers soon learn from salty older Chiefs and Petty Officers how to treat Sailors to gain respect and loyalty from them .
There will always be a few proud hardheaded officers who will never learn and are usually ending on shore duty where they can do the least damage .
I have been with Officers in in a land far away and long ago that I would followed storming the gates of hell .
God Bless our Officers and the Men who follow.🙏🏻🇺🇸
It did end well though
Right on
You talk like a born ass kissing lackey
This is interesting, because for me I think I will have trouble being stern enough. I don't see how people can get a little bit of power and instantly just turn into an asshole toward their subordinates.
Maybe going through OCS is what brings about that change? Are Officers taught to treat the enlisted under them as "less than"? Genuine question.
@@harrygmarshall5157 what about officer country on a aircraft carrier its called a slave and master environment which is not good for moral. The enlisted are the slaves
I was in the United States Navy for 33 years from 1979 to 2012, I was an enlisted sailor from 1979 to 1989 and was commissioned as an Ensign in 1990. My experience from E1 thru O6 was as expected, I never had any animosity towards those appointed over me at anytime in my career in fact my goal was to follow the best leaders and emulate them when I had the opportunity. I was nominated/selected on several occasions as Sailor of the Quarter and was also selected as Sailor of the Year at my last command prior to being selected to attend OCS. If u understand boundaries and respect the chain of command, if u work as hard as you can in your rate and eventually decide you would like to apply to become an officer it is possible. Only the sick, lame and lazy fail to thrive in the Navy. LCPO’s, Division Officers and Department Heads are always on the lookout for outstanding performers. It’s your responsibility from Boot Camp, to A School, to your first command (aboard ship or ashore) to be on time, ask questions, seek advice from a trusted mentor, follow the directions of your division Petty Officers, and most importantly do your job as if your life and the lives of your shipmates depended on it. Don’t sweat the small stuff, don’t make excuses and definitely don’t complain about things you have absolutely no control of. As for me Oh the best part after all that time in the service, Uncle Sam sends me a thank you note on the first of every month until I die.
I only served 4active and 6 reserved... I realized the Navy wasn't for me. But if it were I would of did exactly like you... Pretty much... Knowing what to do with one's life and achieve the maximum is the Goal of a person who knows how to make the most of circumstances... My time in the Navy was really Great... No such thing as Hate... respect for the Ranks.. and do what is expected Right the first time and every time... It's a well Disciplined Military... I finished with Honorable and Eligible for Re Enlistment... Did not waste my time and made sure the Tax Payers got more than their moneys worth .. always above and beyond.... I'm proud that your Service wasn't wasted and glad you receive the Gratitude and Thankfulness for your Service.... Move on Sailor.. and God Bless You and our Country. I Salute You🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Excellent statement! Thank you for your service to our Country!
@@ricardosoto5512 I hated every single moment in the navy. I felt as if I wasted 4 years of my life, and my adult life only was able to start after I left. I am however happy that others enjoyed their time in.
You would've hated me as a sailor, as I was never respectful of the Navy while in, but I'm happy for you regardless.
@@pharma37 I never judge... But everyone knew who was in and became problematic or just had "the wrong attitude" as it would've been said.
Over 90% don't make it a Career and more than 50% leave after their 1st enlistment. The Military is only s stepping stone or s necessity for the Majority. The Lifer's are usually Military Family and a few who just Love the Life.
It's a Contract and like any Contract... You want to finish in Good standing...
I received a lot of advice and told what to expect from Family and Veterans.
In my case.... I didn't have much going for me and limited... In reality... No resources to pursue Higher education.... As Student Loans were not that available. So I went Navy only because of the Port Call's stories from Veterans. I really became Depressed when my High School sweetheart dumped me 18 months into my Enlistment.... She wanted a present and active relationship. Soo I realized that many Sailors were going thru the same.. whether your a Recruit or a Lifer ... Everyone was getting the same Dear John treatment and many had it happen more than 2 times.... Divorces usually came after 12 years in service.... More Benefits... And usually after 12 years.. kids and divorce... Meant a Lifer in the Navy was inevitable... Imagine realizing that.... Even if you want out... It would be Difficult starting all over...
Soo... That's why I got out.
I Love women.... But I didn't want to be in a ship floating around... Longer than I would like... Because of Kids and Divorce. And yeah... My last 3 months I was desperate to get out.... And once out.... After 23 years... My X and the kids got the House.
And I got a non nagging new girlfriend..,.. I guess it's not how you make it... It's how you deal when sht happens.... Make the most of it and less stressing... It would never be as planned.. but it would be something...😀🎄⛄🥶
Happy New Year and Best Wishes,🎉🥳🎇
I am USN Veteran who served on 3 aircraft carriers. nobody "Hated" anyone. there were differences of opinions. But as the old saying goes, " Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one"... I was a plane captain, ensuring that my particular aircraft was ready and prepared safe for the pilot (officer) to fly. I took pride in my job. and got lots of respect for it.
Which command?
What carriers ?
USS FDR CVA 42, USS LEXINGTON CV11, USS SARATOGA CV60. Carrier Air Group1 VA 15, CAG 6, VA44, VA 35.
Plane captain? Were you an AD? I’m an AD
@@CareyOnShipmateAMS. I was working right along side the AD'S. pulled Sumps and strainers,
I served in the British army for 24 years, I found that loyalty and respect only works if it is reciprocal.
Absolutely!
Canadian Army Vet 🍁
💯💯💯U.S. NAVY HAS ZERO RESPECT TOWARDS ENLISTED. U.S. NAVY SUCKS!!
Started out as an E3 on a carrier (CV-63) and yes the officers had better quarters, better food, better heads, head of the line privileges, cleaning service, laundry service. They had all these benefits because they earned it. I had every opportunity to go to college earn a degree that was useful to the Navy and work towards a commission. I chose to go enlisted which is a faster path to service and does not carry the heavy burden of greater responsibility. I did not have any hatred or animosity towards the officers on our ship, at least in my time young sailors were mentored well enough to understand this.
Many years ago, as a mid-grade (division) officer, I engaged in a lively argument with one of the very junior sailors (about 2 years in the Navy) in my division. It seems he couldn't understand why the Commanding Officer (20+ years in the Navy) was given a parking space closer to the ship's berth than him. This video seems to take the same myopic viewpoint of life.
I think that it probably comes with the fact if a enlisted individual messes up he gets some sort of punishment, if a officer messes up, say letting jet fuel leak into drinking water. They get a promotion, it also dosent help when officers in charge of safety drop the ball and let a ship catch on fire and try and railroad a sailor who was clearly innocent
@@dogguy8603 that railroading was a sad state of affairs..reminded me of the railroading of that one dead gun crew member on the 16 inch gun explosion on BB.
I’m guessing that very junior sailor is still a very junior sailor…?
Dude still hasn't learned the fact he's not any better than the enlisted. And he wonders why everyone hated him
@@deusvult6920 On submarines, life is very different and there isn't OFFICER COUNTRY. IN NUKE life back aft, when an officer starts to qualify he has to get checkouts and signoffs from the "experts" on different systems. I remember one particular E Div checkout that was fine until what they called the "oulies" where they asked questions that couldn't be answered from the manuals, you simply had to find someone who was willing to give you a little help.
The point is in submarine life you learned really quickly that no matter what your education background, you were one of the crew and the submarine was only as effective as the crew was. Once you make Lt (O-3), you get a bit more responsibility and "prestige" but even the O-4's (L'CDR) were still not very special.
One thing that was learned quickly, don't screw with any LPO or Chief. And the Chief of the Boat (COB), the XO and especially the CO were NOT to be disrespected in any way. All of these people knew how to use the system to make things right.
I was an Air Force officer long ago. The allowance for meals was not enough to pay for 3 meals a day for a month when I was in the field. The one time uniform allowance also did not cover expenses. Not a big deal, but worth noting.
Retired FC, I came to realize the Navy is structured less like a military branch and more like a business: officers are executives, blue shirts are the workforce, chiefs are the managers. Department, divisions and work centers are how we're organized. Even the name of the departments are corporate, i.e. Logistics, Operations, Administration, Engineering.
First, all branches of service are structured this way, not just the Navy. And no, officers are more managerial; CPOs do manage, but they mostly lead. There's a difference.
@J. P. Not really. In the Navy the divide between Officer and Enlisted are more distinct than other branches.
As for chiefs, they are managers. Officer do more PowerPoint briefing, paperwork approving and addressing higher up than chiefs. Chiefs manage their people: they delegate authority in the division, have the most influence on performance assessment evaluations, and have the most say on who should go to available schools
@@seanthomxx2694 I spent well over 20 yrs in the Navy. CPOs pride themselves as leaders because they train both officers and enlisted. Officers are overall in charge and thus, manage the organization.
@@seanthomxx2694 "Deckplate Leadership" is a phrase used by the Chiefs' Mess. The Navy looks to them for leadership. That's why they're the backbone of the Navy. They train all hands.
@J. P. when I think of a manager, I think of a leader that is present at the operation (i.e. deckplate leadership). When I think of the executives, I think of a person who'll consult with the manager on status and progress and go to report that status to higher up via briefs, memo and messages. I'm not taking leadership away from CPOs Mess , but I think we have different view of manager and exec.
I served on three ships in my nearly 5 years in the NAVY. I never heard of anyone hating an Officer or NCO for having better food or berthing arrangements. I have seen some hated because of a poor and haughty attitude or incompetence. But that was fairly rare.
20 years veteran, myself,
I was a enlisted E3 on the USS George Washington and got very sick with some kind of stomach virus. I went to medical 3 times and was told they didn't have time to see me. On my 3rd visit trying to see someone, a officer skipped the line of the enlisted to go get something looked at with his teeth. I woke up the next day, put on my clothes, and went to muster in the hanger bay. Feeling sick I couldn't stand anymore and had to be carried by two of my fellow sailors to medical. When I arrived in medical they were trying to say they couldn't help me again!!! The guys that were carrying me had to yell and basically say this guy needs help asap!!! Finally, got seen in medical and they had to put two IV bags in me. So, the point I am trying to make is of course officers should get better treatment, but the enlisted should not be treated how I was treated. I am happy I did my time and am out of the Navy.
I was on the GW as well. I know the elitism you’re talking about. Officers could do whatever they wanted on that ship. Enlisted were treated like crap a good portion of the time.
That's why they called it "Cell Block 73"
I was on the GW too. What years were you there?
As a Navy Veteran who served aboard the USS Forrestal (CV-59), I can say sailor didn't hate officers per se. It is more about personality differences, some people just don't click. More to the point, the officers lived in staterooms, which didn't appear to me too much of an upgrade to me. I used to go into Officer's Country to wind the clocks and can say the only real nice staterooms belonged to the Ship's Captain and Executive officer plus the Flag stateroom. All the rest were spartan, in my opinion. In port, I would often walk up the the airwing officer's country to use the head there, since they were gone. The head and shower was the same as the one in my own berthing area, except without the 20 sailors...hehe.
What you needed was a S-7 buddy who was in charge of the Capts Galley/Cabin. Good steaks from the Capts Galley after hours at Shuckers eating Oysters and finishing the night with Flaming Jelly Beans........
why doesn't the navy simply allow girls to pleasure the men? bring them onboard like a strip club or something. great for morale. men living with only men all men all the time. I mean come on man. that's nuts.
did my 5 ships.
GOD BLESS all the people who ever served upon the uss FORESTAL. you are my heroes in the navy.
every one who served on that ship is my hero!
My friend called it the forest fire. He served on it for a time.
I served in the Royal Navy throughout the80s, below deck. I was told that if you want to pick the apples off the tree, you have to climb the ladder.
Having served on 2 ships and been underway on a 3rd as an officer I can realistically say the food is the same between the wardroom and the crews mess. I actually found sometimes the mess was better than the wardroom. Especially on small boys all the food comes from the same galley it just gets taken up a couple decks to the wardroom
wow? food is so important to you? really? how about the thought that you are about to die to defend your country?
@@leonardnordenstrom1463 did you serve? And specifically in the navy aboard an aircraft carrier?
@@leonardnordenstrom1463 People aren't allowed to have more than one thought at a time, or talk about things that you don't deem important when you think they should talk about them? I would think for somebody that served with the Patriots on the GW, you'd have a broader comprehension than that.
Both menus were posted in the Plan of the Day. I remember days when the wardroom was served peanut butter soup. I also remember the junior duty officers would try to be on watch at mealtimes. They told me the best chow they they got was when they fulfilled their duty to "sample the crew's mess".
I served on the midway from 1979 to 1981 in the boiler room. I never heard anything about officers and enlisted men this and that . This is America the education I got from the Navy is all I needed to improve my life because of bad public schools.
good people had times in the navy. you are a hero to me sir, JOHN! I am retired E6 as of 2010
I was in the United States Navy on a destroyer. Most of the officers had my respect.
Did 7 tours a a Navy Pace instructor, we all got along on every cruise.
I was an officer on a SpruCan. Junior officers shared a stateroom with one other. We cleaned it ourselves as far as the day to day stuff, but once a month a sailor would strip and wax the deck and deep clean on top of lockers and the bulkhead nooks and crannies. Captain, Xo, and ops boss had their own. We did get our uniforms pressed but the food was sent up from the same galley as enlisted men, but we did have a stocked frig and freezer in the ward room for snacks and sandwiches. We did have to pay for food - I think around 200 a month while underway and about 50 in home port. We also had our own slush fund for the snacks and usually hooked up the enlisted guys that served us in the ward room - they were new sailors and did a 3 month rotation either through the ward room, chiefs mess, or enlisted mess. What was interesting about “the hierarchy” of command on our ship was the impact a good chief had on the divisions. I had a terrific chief as an ensign as DC officer and then I got first division - deck sailors that were super important to so many aspects of being underway, but just a total wild card of competencies and half of them were just complete misfits that were completely unmanageable. I only had a first class that would never make chief for the first few months and it was a disaster. Right before we deployed for 7 months, we got a senior chief boatswain mate of 30 years and he put the fear of god into those guys - something I couldn’t ever achieve at 24 years old and 1 year of experience on a ship. So yeah… officers are top of the pecking order, but it’s the salty chiefs that get stuff done. They all shared a berthing (with the exception of CMC) and of all the berthings on the ship - some of which had over 60 stinky sailors in them- the chiefs quarters smelled THE WORST. Those old effers just didn’t GAF anymore or were just that used to it, idk.
Aboard deployed carriers junior officers (O-3 and below) often share quarters other officers. Private quarters are rare at that rank. Great username by the way.
@@timkellyD2R 🤟 hi Tim Kelly!
I never knew what good leadership was until I left the Navy and started working in civilian life. Naval officers are the best. They actually cared about you, very much until you got short and were not gonna re-up.
They don't call CPO Quarters "The Goat Locker" for nothing. :)
bless you sir, 1990 to 2010.
I spent 28 years on submarines as enlisted and can confidently say there was not one officer I ever hated. There may have been one commanding officer I might not have been too fond of but that was about it. Everybody had a job to do no one begrudged anyone their living conditions on the ship.
I rode a boomer 77 - 79 and in such quarters, O gang had to get along with the crew, there is no place to hide.
academy grads were full of themselves and it would take an A ganger to make them realize their place in the crew.
everyone who earned their dolphins had to go through A gang!
Was also a submariner. I wouldn't use the word hate but I was indifferent about three officers (including my first CO). Two was very "but in the academy" and my first CO was completely disconnected from his crew. Luckily I only had to deal with most of these people on my first year at my command. Other than those guys every officer in my command were the boys. Some preferred to hang out with us A-gangers than with the Wardroom. Overall our officers were great and no one held any resentment for them.
@@patrickbukowski9667 A-gang always humbles the academy grads. We "ruined" every DCA we got lol
@@Ch0c0lateChimp *Classy, and moronic!*
Wrong. Everyone envied the Goat Locker.
"If you have a question, ask an officer. An officer will always answer your question. Now if you want the correct answer to your question ask your Chief." Words of Advice from my Aunt, a Navy officer and nurse training a bunch of corpsmen.
HOG WASH
@@jhonyermo No, a 20 year Navy vet and Retired as a Commander.
Officers know what they have been taught in their schools. NCO's know what they have learned in their career. Sometimes you get lucky and that's the same thing.
@@jhonyermo My last Division Officer had a degree in Chemistry. That's fine, unless you are the Electrical Division officer in the Engineering Department.
He was actually an excellent Divo. We Petty Officers (NCOs) made sure that we trained him appropriately so that he would have the right answers. That is how Ensigns make LT Jg...
I was a plane captain. In charge of an aircraft an A6 Intruder. I never hated any of the officer I seved under, but I did have to teach one a valuable lesson. He was a Lieutenant who jumped me for not saluting him. Everytime he came to the flight line the aircraft systems went down. Finally a senior pilot talked to him and said if you don't fly you don't get flight pay. Whoever you pissed of go apologize. He came to me and made amends and was good to go after that. Amazing what a little circuit breaker can do.
bro you are wildin' for that one 😂
😂😂😂 that’s crazy , but funny . I got chewed out a couple times for not saluting
Sailors on an aircraft carrier do not hate officers. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for a year U.S.S. Shangri-La had a great time and rode her around the horn of South America. We did respect the officers we served with.
Does anyone here think this difference is reserved only for the military.
Work in a major corporation and you too will experience multiple levels of management...some are even competent.
And the difference between how a CEO lives and how their lowest paid employees live is MUCH greater than the difference between officers, even the Captain, and enlisted on any ship in the US or any other Navy.
@@brucetucker4847 I can likewise guarantee that difference is not terribly relevant. Compare income of the lowest enlisted man vs. a entry level employee in a large corp. Could that E1 survive on that income outside the Navy?
It's the same literally everywhere on Earth.
There's the "ruling class" and the "working class". Always has been.
Obviously in modern society, the classes are less cut and dry. Engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. are very respected despite being still being "working class".
But the dynamic is still reminiscent to how it was throughout history. You have the managers and the workers. There's usually mutual respect these days, but not always.
Navy vet here. I really appreciate all the other Navy vets coming in to comment about how there is no hate between the ranks. We are all part of the same team and we've got a job to do and we do it proudly.
I'm o
Sadly for me there was a great deal of hatred between enlisted and officers. It stemmed from the officers not treating the enlisted like they were human beings, but more like slaves to be ordered around.
Many folk had different experiences. Mine was full of animosity, cruelty, and in the end, hatred.
HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT! 20 years! SURFACE. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
I was an MS on USS TARAWA LHA-1, from 1986-89. The officers are the same quality food as the enlisted. Their MS's only had to cook for a couple hundred Navy and Marine officers whereas the MS's that cooked for the crew served up 9K-10K meals a day. The CO had his own cook as did ComSincPac, when on board, have his own book also. Now, the chiefs/NCO's are the best as they are the ones who pay for their own meals. They buy their own provisions dedicated to their pay. They are the ones that eat the best on board a carrier. Whoever supplied the info for this video got it all wrong. As a side note: our crew are very well. About half of the MSs I served w/ went on to professional culinary gigs after they served their time. I am now a retired chef of 30 years.
Navy cookies are the best. There was more then one time we'd be crawling up the brow. Broke, drunk, and hungry. We'd find that one MS who was still up and get him to open up the galley. There was a little bit of horse trading though.. The next Sunday that he was on duty, us dumb asses would have man the griddle. So's he could sleep in and shit. I was on a CG, so inport Sunday morning wasn't that bad. Damn, it was fun though. It's one of things that you'll never be able to live again.
Thanks Terry, I was onboard Tarawa 86, the food was good.
@@c1d2e Glad to have cooked for you, shipmate.
MS aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) from 86-89, went and did everything from diner to fine dining for almost 20 yrs after until health issues prevented me from working the hours/spending time on my feet 🙂
@@derrikgilmore5975 I spent a total of 40 years in the culinary industry, 30 of which I was cheffing. I, too, had to retire after medical troubles back in 2017. Thanx for your time and service, shipmate.
I spent over nine months at sea on an aircraft carrier while attached to a squadron as part of Carrier Air Wing 3. Can’t recall hating any officers. Yes they had better conditions than enlisted men, as did the CPOs, but that’s life.
I can count on one hand the number of Officers that I served with that I hated. I could use my fingers and toes and still not have enough to list every Senior enlisted that I hate and would not piss on to put the fire that was raging on them out. It's a matter of treating people wit dignity and respect. Some people do and some people don't. Welcome to life.
Well said.
Important to note that there are simply more enlisted people than there are officers. Stands to reason there would be more fuckhead enlisted than fuckhead officers.
But yeah, I feel like Officers tend to have had better childhoods that made sure they were more likely to achieve higher education. A rough upbringing is a surefire way to make someone be bitter at life as whole.
Just one contributing factor that I think is at play. Officers have always had easier lives, so it's easier to be a decent person. That's just how I currently see it as a college grad trying to commission. Far from a general rule, just that there's probably some truth to it.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk in the 80s with more than 5,000 crew including the Air Wing when deployed. Officers will always have better living conditions onboard. It has always been like that. I was lucky enough to have just 10 sailors in our berthing. We didn’t have internet or smart phones back then just VCR VHS, and Betamax. 😂
I was a Marine attached to the Kittyhawk as well 76-78 and there were 60 Marines in our one berthing area. Tight quarters man but we were all young and made the best of it. Better that being in the field for many days at a time so Marines may be a bit more forgiving about where they lay their heads. Lol
And cassettes with the Sony Walkman, though CDs were just starting to come out.
Obviously, you didn't see any of the junior officer's quarters on the O3 level. I spent two years on the Kitty Hawk 2000-2002 and slept in a 12-man junior officers berthing right behind Cat 2 steam room. Every time they launched off Cat 2 our berthing turned into a rainforest!
@@jerryware5749 damn straight baby and I was jamming Journey and Saturday Night Fever in the same night! Go figure some lil home boy from Flint Michigan!
@@ronwilson5476 Old times. Bee Gees, Donna Summer, Boston.
I was in the USAF, there was one cafeteria, offers paid, enlisted didn't unless on seperate rations. The delineation between officers and enlisted was there but not like our sister services. Maybe because the history of it being crew based. Even though in most cases it's not a flight crew as in a bomber, those crews ate together. It wasn't uncommon to have mixed ranks eat together, I was a medic and may have been the reason. But, have went to eat, and one of the doc's or nurses was by themselves and ask if they can sit. Not uncommon, I'm sure it was the same for air maintenance and their pilots.
I was at Charleston in the mid 60s. Got orders for Pakistan. In Karachi we stayed at the Embassy while commercial transportation was arranged. Walked into dining area one day and saw a loadmaster that I knew, he waved me over to his table there were five or six guys sitting there. His comment to me was "what the hell are you doing here"? When I told him I was assigned to Peshawar, guy at the table said "who did you piss off? Turned out it was the entire crew of a C-130 on their RON. There was no rank showing because of civilian clothes but it was a mix of officer and enlisted. Crews had a close relationship.
I served on two different carriers and in four different division and had some excellent officers, my wife at the time had to have emergency surgery and he walked my emergency leave request, are you out there Lt Forbes, thank you....
When I was in USAF at Eglin AFB 73-75 we had one of the best how halls in air force. Officers ate with us. It wasn't uncommon to have 2 star generals waiting in line to eat. They had to pay their dollar though and us enlisted ate free.
Whoever wrote this is really off the spot! On a carrier the pilots who are all Naval Officers are like the rock stars! I was an ABH3 V1 Div Crash and Salvage. We really loved our Officers. My Divos were some of the coolest dudes I'd met! So enlisted don't hate officers at all!
lol I remember you!
Brown shoe officers are much different from black shoes.
A brown shoes would never tell his maintenance man about how stupid he is.
If the that sailor is stupid pilot's aircraft may land sooner than intended.
A black shoe told me how stupid I was because he learned how to operate my machine in 9 weeks. Because it took me 2 years to learn my job.
I just let him ramble on. I knew that the course was the same for officer and enlisted for the operator.
Just taught in separate class rooms.
I spent 104 weeks at 40 hours a week in classroom learning RF, analog & digital design and code operation to maintain, repair and modify it. I also had manuals in the safe that went beyond the basic operation to study to make 2nd and 1st class promotions.
We used to call the Fleet Air Arm "WAFU'S".... because they were "Wet And F****** Useless"!!! But all in fun. They had a few choice words for Engineering staff too!
Stop having civilians write about how military is or thinks it's totally different than a civilian will ever now
most officers who fly those things are actually good people and know what it means if their things don't work properly.
When you are as they say "all in the same boat" you can't waste your time hating or being jealous of anyone's sleeping, eating, or working conditions. Everyone has job to do.
it is war, so what are we to complain about if we are still breathing?
What is interesting is the fact that I went from E1 to E9 ESWS. DIRECT commision to O1 retired as an 03 SWO This video doesn’t really relate the reality I was on two destroyers, two missile cruisers an aircraft carrier special forces boat units And spent my last three years teaching new recruits how to fight fires and do damage control
OY< go f yourself! really.damn narcisist!
The commentator of this video is incorrect. A 4-year degree is NOT required to become a commissioned officer. One can obtained a Warrant or an LDO commission without a degree. A sailor is also a term used for commissioned officers too.
I was an enlisted E5 Aviation Machinist Mate I did three 9 month cruises on Aircraft Carriers working as a Plane Captain.
I never HATED an Officer, I ENVIED them. I could have been an officer but I was raised in a lower middle-class neighborhood, my parents never finished high school and didn't have the know-how or money to see me to college. Mind you that there was no internet in 1966 - info on how to accomplish things was scarce.
I was a Corpsman from 1972-1976. In the fall of 1974, I was TDY on the USS Ranger and the USS Coral Sea for two weeks each. I was an E4 at the time and my impression was that the living arrangements for enlisted was appropriate considering our ranks. There is no possible way to provide officer-like accommodations for all 5,000 people - there simply isn’t enough room. And I certainly did not hate the officers for having more comfortable quarters than us. However - if the enlisted living conditions were close to unbearable like it was on the Coral Sea back then, then there are going to be problems. On the Coral Sea the enlisted heads were filthy and didn’t have any toilet paper. Men would stand in the chow line for 30 minutes and have to go back to work on the flight deck due to the long waiting lines without getting any food. While I was the Coral Sea, a person or persons began setting fires in the unoccupied berthing areas, apparently in protest of the poor living conditions.
The CO of the Coral Sea went on TV to offer a $500 reward of his own money for information on whoever was doing it. He finally wised up and gathered a focus group of enlisted people who voiced their complaints about the heads and the food. The CO then ordered the heads to cleaned on a hourly basis and he created an express chow line which served hot dogs, pop, and milk so people would get some hot food during their lunch breaks.
I thought I had it rough back in high school. When lunch begins, I use the restroom, wash my hands, wait a few minutes in line, and rush to finish my food before lunch time ends. Though I know that things can always be worse.
I did Westpac with the coral sea in 74" on the uss Richard s Edwards DD950,just was thinking a few weeks ago on all the meals I missed on the ship,that still pisses me off.on top of that I lost my hearing at age 20 from shipyards.oh well ,thanks!
I was on the Ranger 77-80.I was E2-E4 E-Div ships company. PNA on the E5 test, we had enough E5's already. I had no idea the Coral Sea had so many problems. You didn't see that on the Ranger did you? The cleanliness issues is just poop coop leadership Ours were clean and maintained many times a day or someone (senior) went to capt's mast. My coop was all the way aft under the fan tail. 180 men and I think the renovation put it to over 200. I never gave the conditions of officers much thought. Most of the officers on ship I had contact with were pilots and with the hours those guys put in? They needed the extra benefits just to stay useful in the air.
@@Maxid1 No, the Ranger didn’t have problems like the Coral Sea did. You were on the Ranger three years after me? Maybe the word got around the leadership levels that neglecting the living conditions of the enlisted people creates big problems.
If your heads were dirty, you need to blame first Louie.
During my service in the Navy, I lived on 3 amphibious ships: 2 helicopter carriers and a tank landing ship, and I never hated officers! I realized that they had their jobs to do that entailed a tremendous degree of responsibility, initiative and performance, much more so than that which was expected of me, even though that was a great deal as well, concerning my normal duties as an Electrician's Mate.
In view of this, as far as I was concerned, they deserved the exalted status, quirks and extra pay that was allocated them!
Another thing to consider and that is, if enlisted men got into a spot of trouble, the disciplinary action that normally followed was usually somewhat limited, and after a procedure of non-judicial punishment, (Captain's Mast), he was returned to his normal duties, apparently less the worse for wear.
In the case of an officer however, depending upon the nature of the offense, the aftermath conceivably could be viewed so serious in the eyes of his superiors, as to cost him his career and subsequently would be drummed out of the Service!
There is a reason for the chain of comnand in the Service, and no organization could survive without it!
Case in point, could you have a football team, if everybody wanted to do "his thing"?
As another -"Sparky" , EM-2 , I agree, but seen some "Messed" up Officers, who thought they were "BETTER" & my Master Chief, pointed that out to a "SMARTY" pants Lt.jg, who degraded me when I was a EMFN. I still thank, & remember IC Master Chief, Bostic, in 1978. for showing me that "Enlisted" run the ship.
I was an IT for 18 of my 20 years in uniform. I never met an officer who held themselves to as high a standard as they held their enlisted subordinates. There was always an excuse, or they were always let off. Reading porn on watch, dumping their responsibilities on their subordinates because they didn't feel like doing them, disregarding regulations because they were inconvenient, inventing regulations to justify derelict or abusive behavior, and the old standby of how they always knew better about anything and everything simply because they were officers so don't you DARE try to correct them. And even if an officer DID get caught, 99+ times out of a hundred thy would pass the blame off on their subordinates somehow. I was personally threatened with Captain's Mast twice for incidents I had no direct involvement with because the officer that was pointed the finger at me (and being an officer, their word was accepted as unchallengeable gospel), and had to stand silent at quarters three times to watch an officer receive an award they'd given themselves for my work while I received nothing.
"tremendous degree of responsibility, initiative and performance???" Try take the credit and pass the blame.
I was ship's secretary for my last tour of duty and of course legal yeoman, so i dealt with officers on a daily basis. in war there was no animosity.
i understood that they needed the extra space due to their extra responsibility
you understood the immense knowleded they had and responsibilty.
A Naval Officer is a Sailor. Please correct this video. We have enlisted and officers, both are Sailors.
Clearly you never served. Every officer I ever met (20 years Navy) who was called a sailor took offense and promptly corrected whoever said that (with the level of their hostility based on the status of the speaker) that only enlisted people were sailors.
@@cdevil9488 Not only have I served but I continue to do so. Also I have the privilege of training Sailors on the O pay scale.
Thank you for this post. Unfortunately, there are idiot naval officers who truly say that there are "officers and Sailors". If you ask a USMC officer if he/she is a Marine, he/she will say hell yes I'm a Marine. You don't hear them say "officers and Marines".
@@cdevil9488 Referring to naval officers as sailors is perjorative.
My dad was a general line officer. He was CO of minesweepers, and two research ships during National Oceanographic Year. He loved that command because he was able to share the mess with so many highly educated scholars who were on board for the duration. In the 50’s the CO generally ate by himself in his cabin, occasionally joining the officers mess for a meal. For the children, if the ship was in port for Thanksgiving, Christmas, or some other holiday, officer’s families would be invited for a meal on board. It was a big deal. In later life after Dads retirement we would often be visited by some of Dad’s former shipmates, both enlisted and officers. I think my dad was greatly respected for his fairness. He once encountered a reprimand from an admiral who requested his Filipino stewards to serve at a party on the flagship when he had promised them shore leave in Philippines to visit their families. He stuck to his guns and got a major dressing down.
an officer could be a disciplinarian (of sorts...) but if he had cast iron sense of fairness and stuck to it his men knew it and would follow him anywhere. that was the gist of what i got from family members who served in world war one, world war two, korea, the cold war. My great uncle served on the western front 1916 to 1919 and he said "a fair officer could make your life bearable".
And that was in world war one. RIP uncle george. i miss those long talks with you.
well, bless him.
I was in the Marine Corps from 1956 to 1962. I spent two years in the active reserves and three years on active duty. I was enlisted; I rose to E-5.
I don't recall enlisted men hating officers, but it was crystal clear, even to a youngster, that officers simply live better than enlisted personnel.
The hierarchy of the military convinced me that I did not want to make a career in the Marines, but I am glad that I served. It made me a better person.
well, god bless you Paul. i am a retired navy E6. after knowing your count I am asking that are a better person than you think you are.
Marines fight all day and then some. You are a hero to me, paul. GOD BLESS YOUR SPIRIT DES CORPS!
The difference between Os and Es in the navy is magnified exponentially. I was also E5 and as you know we were the load carriers..at least navy loads.
I was TAD in the Wardroom(where officers eat) on my last deployment. I will say the pilots and aircrew never complained about anything. Some the ship officers on the other hand were quite grouchy. But I never hated any officers. I just hated the job. Thank god I’m an Aviation Structural Mechanic.
just doing the job on a carrier, the slop is all the same.
I served ;in the Marine Corps as an infantry officer for 21 years with 3 years in combat. My first assignment after graduating from the basic officer course (six months) was a a Marine platoon commanding in 'Vietnam 1968-69. During my time in the Marines I was deployed on several amphibious deployments. I can't speak to how the sailors and ship's officers quarters were like, but I can tell you that the troop spaces were super crowded with very small lockers about the size of a portable TV in those days. Marine officers were assigned to 4 per small room. The CO of Troops (the senior Marine aboard and responsible for all embarked Marines) had a small private room with a regular size locker.
Marines were assigned to various tasks to supplement the sailors. For example Marines worked along side of the Navy cooks in the galley cooking, serving, and washing dishes. Others were assigned to man the twin 40 mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns for which we had never received training. Luckily there were never any such drills and there were no aircraft threats to the ship. Marines also augmented the Navy's laundry section.
The food was just OK. Marines ate whatever was served to the crew. Both Marine and Navy officers ate in the Ward Room. Meals were served in several seatings as the Ward Room was never large enough to seat everyone. Officer meals were prepared by Filipino cooks and waiters. In those days there was a Navy tradition that Filipinos could volunteer to serve as cooks and waiters in most Navy officer messes. I don't think that is done anymore, but things change.
Once a week there would be a movie projected on a pull down screen from a movie projector. Each officer was allowed one cup of popcorn.
It was a challenge to keep the Marines motivated. Platoons would do physical fitness on the helicopter deck which was extremely hot. Daily cleaning of the troop compartment and the Ship's XO would inspect them every morning to ensure they were spotless. We held classes on weapons and tactics, etc.
I remember that the entire ship smelled like diesel fuel. In severe weather, the Marines in the troop compartments would be strapped into their bunks and when the weather cleared we had to spend extra time cleaning up the vomit.
We got caught in a Typhoon one night and the ship was taking 30 degree snap rolls from port to starboard. That was a wild ride.
I was Navy Corpsman and spent a lot of time being pissed on by torrential rain in Camp Lejeune, sleeping, if possible, in the field. I later served as ships company on the USS Ponce and I absolutely remember how the marines slept and lived on our ship. I’d take the ship over sleeping in the field any day of the week. I don’t bitch about it, as I was happy to serve my Marine brothers, but I think anyone who’s ever served in the chigger infested woods would probably agree. 😊
@@michaeldumais1784 One of the weeks during CORTRAMID (which was my 4/C cruise) was to spend a week with a Marine Corps unit. After a couple of hours, I was confirmed in my decision that being a Marine Option midshipman was not for me.
Filipinos, who had served in the U.S. Navy as early as the Civil War, began enlisting in larger numbers after the U.S. took possession of the Philippines following the Spanish-American War. The Philippines gained independence in 1946, and an agreement negotiated the next year allowed the U.S. Navy to recruit Filipino nationals. Over the next four decades, about 35,000 Filipinos served in the Navy, initially as stewards and mess attendants. Eligible to serve in all enlisted and officer positions by the 1970s, they later rose to the Navy’s highest ranks.
I was in the Coast Guard and achieved the rank of E6 (1st class petty officer) in 3 1/2 years. Just before my time was done I was debating whether to re-enlist or not. Even though time was short, for shits and giggles I took the Chiefs Exam for my rate. I thought I squeaked by on it but apparently I had a phenomenal score. When discussing this with the XO of my ship I told him I didn't think re-enlistment was for me, only 2 jobs....teaching at the school or a big white high endurance cutter which = underway. I was crazy in love with my new gf at the time. A few weeks later my division officer called me to his stateroom and showed me a letter from the Area Command: I qualified for and could enroll in OCS (officers candidate school) and become a commissioned Warrant Officer upon completion, opening up vast new career possibilities for me. Most likely I could never reach the rank of Captain or Commander without an Academy degree, but even as a Lt., I had many possibilities even CO of a small unit. I struggled with the decision and I left the USCG cuz.....I was in love. I often think about what if....though I can't complain. I've done ok and that gf is still my wife, 42 years this month.
PURE HUMBUG
@@jhonyermo not at all
One way to move from enlisted to officer is get an education, etc, etc. The trip from E-1 to O-6 is possible and many of us have done it.
This is horse shit. I went E-5. I did the Flight Deck Rodeo for the Line Rat King (wrapping my limbs in the bow safety netting and "riding out" a launch sortie... molten kerosene and 150mpg jet wash blasting my body everywhere. Cowarding out would be suicide, as in written up as a suicide, you would plunge to the screws because Rat King hates a coward). All that stuff.
Senior Enlisted run the Navy. And enlisted do not resent the officers. Complete horseshit. We liked the officers, they treated us nice.
I was on board the USS America in S-2 division...i was with a Squadron (VA-46 at the time) and no disrespect hated all the Airedales in the squadron but enjoyed all the people on board the ship!
Army officer here. In the field we tend to sleep in the same conditions as our enlisted. Though we may sometimes be segregated when training or deployed, it is rarely with better conditions. Maybe the commander and most senior officers and senior-most enlisted get their own rooms at barracks, but that is about it.
Did both the Navy and Army. The Army was pretty consistent with everyone being in the same conditions aside from the Commander and 1SG. The Navy was very big on officers being taken care even at the expense of Sailors. Hundreds of new Sailors are assigned to clean the officers hallways, clean/press their laundry, and cook their far superior food. After months at sea it can get tough to not resent officers for the better conditions they are allowed.
US Army EM 1968-1971: Officers were segregated in our REMF unit in Vietnam. They ate from the same Mess Hall but in separated space. Their barracks had individual rooms. Their showers had running water and latrines had flush toilets. We only had 2 Commissioned & 1 Chief Warrant Officer. The Colonel lived in a mobile home with a private bath and patio.
When I was commissioned in the Army in '81, the officers in garrison ate separately at a officers table in the mess hall or at the officers club. Fast forward to the late '90's when I was a battalion commander things changed. I stood in line with the rest of the troops at the DFAC but the officers still ate at separate tables from the enlisted. But as the battalion commander rarely would people invite themselves to sit and break bread with the BC. The only persons who could sit down uninvited were my CSM, my XO and the three. But their was always the soldier who was brave enough to sit with the BC and just talk. As a leader you learn a lot from those conversations.
In the field everybody ate and slept together. Many times I slept in the back of my HUMWVE or in or on my track and only hours at a time. If we had time to set up a hooch then the command section. would set up some tents. Many a time I ate on the hood of my HUMWVEE or on the ramp of my track.
it just goes with the territory and the responsibility. but, I will tell you this, in the field officers eat last and they eat what is left. The enlisted soldiers get fed first and chow sent forward better be hot.
@@destroyer0685 Sir, I am greatly encouraged! In January 1971 my unit CO & First Sergeant picked me to attend the first in a series of "Vol Ar Rap Sessions." [This non-military phrase was always spat out derisively with air quote gestures.] The Ft. Huachuca Garrison Commander (O-6) was being forced by Department of the Army to speak directly with us lowly EM's (E-3 through E-5, as I recall). I was the "short timer" in my unit and one of only 3 Vietnam "Returnees" in the unit, so they picked me. I already had an approved early out to return to college.
The "Vol Ar Rap Sessions" were intended to help the Army get ready for an all "volunteer" Army. Sadly, we were told to speak freely, with appropriate military decorum, with which I respectfully complied. The next, day our unfortunate unit First Sergeant got chewed out for sending a "bitter, outspoken short timer" to the meeting, and they threatened to take away my Separate Rations for my last 4 weeks of my 2 years, 9 months and 6 hours of Army life. Perhaps those of us stuck in those "Rap Sessions" [air quotes!] actually were heard. I sincerely, thank you for your Service and commitment. [Hand Salute] Blessings.
@@destroyer0685 Thanks for your service! I hear ya about ensuring the enlisted eat first! (And I've had a meal or two off the bumper of an LMTV come to think of it)
Officers typically have a bigger room because most officer work requires a computer and a bunch of paperwork and do a lot of work in there cabin. Sailors do most of their job at operating consoles and only ever really sleep in there bunk
I bet a lot of enlisted don't hate on officers for the sole reason they're glad they don't have to do all the fucking paperwork they do.
Nimitz Plank Owner here. I was on the cargo team during my mess deck stint. Officer ate the same food as we did. They ate in a different mess. Worked for some great officers. Never hated any of them. But I did have a bottom bunk just like in this video. Real cozy....like a coffin. lol
was in the Navy in the early 90’s. Officers regularly talked down to enlisted sailors. but what really shocked me was officers also did it to other officers who didn’t go through the Naval Academy. we had a Ltjg who was our Auxiliary officer, went to Rice University and got his commission. they treated that good man like garbage.
I bunked on USS JFK for a week back in the early 90s, on loan from HMS Ark Royal. I was number four in a grotty four-man cabin - and this was Lt Cdr's accommodation 😱. On Ark, as a Lt equivalent (I was a Flight Lieutenant RAF on an exchange tour with the RN)I had my own cabin, which was equipped to a much higher standard. Oh - and we had a bar...😁
So sailors don’t really hate officers.
Just the ones that don't know what they are doing/book smart only. It makes life stressful for enlisteds.
I Enlisted in 1979 17 years old spent 3 years Enlisted to E-5. Was sent to AOCS Feb 1983. Complete all Flight Training Dec 1984. Having known Enlisted life a few years. The Enlisted I was in charge had respect for me. As many times I still helped Change out Engines and Hydraulic components along side them. Sure the XO didn't like it. But my Air Frames/Power Plants Division had the best Moral scores.
i seems like sailors hate the ensigns and maybe lt jr grade. it seems like once they get to lt and above the sailors are indifferent.
Nah, it’s just like anything in life. Good ones… bad ones….
I was a Marine Corp Officer that got commissioned through the enlisted ranks via the Naval Academy. Let me tell you I never ate as well as when I was and E-2. One of the things that I looked forward to was standing Officer of the Day. Because you HAD to eat ONE meal in the enlisted mess in your 24 hour duty. I LOVED THAT. Otherwise you had to eat at that O Club. I hated that. The food was overpriced and you did not get enough to fill you up.
E6 retired. NAVY. I never met a marine i didn't like!
GOD BLESS, SEMPRE FI!
I was assigned to a helicopter squadron, that was assigned to the aircraft carrier air wing. For a example: Two E-3's, the first E-3 out ranks the second E-3 by six months. The first E-3, has his or her choice of a rack in the berthing compartment, aboard the ship, over the second E-3, that is out ranked by the first E-3, by six months, until, a E-4 to E-5 comes along in the berthing compartment, then the E-4 or E-5, has first choice of a rack aboard the ship. E-6-E-9, have their own berthing compartment and mess, aboard the aircraft carrier. Occasionally, a E-6, or a junior officer, would eat at least one meal a day with the E-1-E-5 ranks, in the enlisted aft and forward mess decks aboard the aircraft carrier.
Ok I don't care about anything else after I heard officers pay for their stuffs. Anyone ever had their CO buy them a nice ass meal?
I started out enlisted. My first ship was new construction. One day I saw mattresses being loaded. Enlisted's were 2" thick, chief's (E7/8/9) were 3", officer's 4". I decided then that I'd be better off being an officer. I made it happen and retired as on O-5
As a young 2nd lieutenant I always ate the same food as the junior ranks and I was constantly criticised and moaned at for doing so but as I found that sometimes the quality, standard and the attitude was far better than the officers mess facilities, anyhoo my older but very wise CSM and RSM told me that how far do you know to push the men and women under your command unless you live like them as much as an officer is allowed to and eating the same food as them, it was very good advice and for the most part I tried to stick by what they advised me to do
I got shore duty, but the worst people I dealt with were senior enlisted. There was master chief who was terrible and also a senior chief who was a dk.
I was a Supply Officer on two aircraft carriers.
When I would give tours I always showed my stateroom where 2 of us lived and one of the many enlisted quarters. Some slept over 150 sailors who would share a head with maybe 6 showers, 8 toilets, and 16 sinks.
Really difficult living conditions when many of them are working different shifts.
During the tour I would emphasize that a college education was the only difference between them and I.
Rank does have its privilege.
OBTW, it was the junior officers that were required to inspect enlisted quarters on a regular basis.
In my 6 years on carriers, not once did any of the men complain to me. It was just the way it was.
Once you got used to enlisted racks, it's not that bad. Annoying sometimes, yes. My take on O's. I worked with some REALLY good Officers. Guys that could lead stink off of shit. Also some REALLY good LPO's and LCPO's.. There was a turd here and again in the Wardroom, along with the Goat Locker. Most were pretty good though.
I served under two different XO's, and both were outstanding. Both always did berthing compartment inspections, and oversaw the mess decks. The only time I didn't see either one in the galley sampling food was during Midrats. Meh, it's leftovers..
The second SUPPO we had was a born leader. He retired a 2 or 3 star. We also had a Jg who never wanted to make eye contact when you walked by him in the passageway. He'd rather be distracted as you walked by. He preferred to be a wallflower. That LTJG is now the current CNO.
My father was a supply officer on a SSBN. "Chop"
@@libfab1interesting...Chief ret
HONOR SIR. we all know what it is to serve and many officers became braggard, but you are not.
There is also some misrepresentation here. Junior Officers get more space than Enlisted Sailors but share a bunk room that accommodates 4 to 6 Officers. Depending on the ship class most officers don't get a private stateroom until they reach O-4 and sometimes O-5. Shipboard life is known to be cramped. If you want more space join the Air Force.
I did 20 years Air Force, 4 enlisted, 16 officer in aircraft maintenance. We sent a KC-135 from Blytheville AFB to Pensacola NAS for a weekend air show. The airplane carried appx 60 base personnel on an incentive ride as a perk. Everyone bailed off the airplane and hit base ops to change out of uniform before leaving base. To our surprise, there was an enlisted, an officer and a pilot's men's room. Some of the guys went in the officer and pilot's bathrooms. They were thrown out by the Navy personnel. It was 50 plus years ago. In comparison to the Air Force and Army bases that I have been around, the Navy has a stricter class system than the others. But, each service has their mission and are structured as to what works for them. I was able to pin my uncle in the Navy WO-4 on him at Kadena AB. I was a young first lieutenant. My office that I shared with my Branch NCOIC (an E-8)was twice as big as my uncle's office that he shared with 3 chiefs that ran the Navy's AIMD for the P3s. And it was stuffed under a stairwell. I asked him why so cramped since they were in a big aircraft hanger. They had the square footage allocated while onboard a carrier. The Navy did not want anybody to get comfortable on shore duty.
As a career AF senior NCO who did a joint tour at Pearl Harbor, I had similar revelations. And I came to the same conclusion: Each service has its own particular operational format appropriate for its own field of combat, and each service carries that operational format into its non-combat operations as well. Since we all win our battles, there's nothing to debate. But for sure: Never let a sailor design your office space.
Meh. As an enlisted guy, I never hated officers. I signed my enlistment papers. If I had wanted to be an officer, I would have gone to college first and then went through OCS or even better, cracked the books and tried to get into the Academy. I spent a total of over two years out at sea on ships and subs (I hopped around, but was never ship's company), and most of the guys I worked with didn't "hate" officers. After seeing the hours they had to put in and the fact that they often had to deal directly with senior officers, I didn't begrudge them a slightly bigger bed and extra dessert.
In the old days, chiefs ate the best food. In fact, officers would hope to get invited to eat in the CPO mess. Now days, all messes pretty much use the same food and same menu. There are only differences in the care given to prepare it. Chiefs generally decide who goes temporarily to which messes and tend to send the better Sailors to the CPO mess or wardroom. The S2 division decides where cooks all work and a CPO probably makes that decision also. Junior Officers sleep in 2 or 4 man rooms. CDR and above get their own stateroom. Enlisted personnel may have 170 people in one berthing but it's usually all within your same division or squadron. Chiefs can be in a pretty nice quarters usually by departments. Air Department is the ship's largest department consisting of about 600 personnel and around 30 chiefs. The Air CPO had 30 bunks and a separate lounge and head. If enlisted berthings or heads are not clean and well stocked with supplies, it's because the First Class Petty Officers that live there and the Chiefs that own the spaces are not doing their job.
On any and every USAF base the best food on the base is at the NCO club, hence everyday at lunch time there would be more commissioned officers eating there than anyone else, in my day we enlisted folks could only afford to drink there.
@@davidcole8448 I only went to the NCO club on Fairchild a few times. I admit the food was good, but as an SP, I had no way to get there for lunch. I also remember it was also a constant issue that people did not pay their charges timely and would find themselves on the shit list. The few times I went there I would pay in cash, even though I could charge. Finally, I realized that I just did not use the club, so I resigned my membership. This got back to my flight chief who gave me this line about the wing commander will not endorse an APR, unless you were a member of the NCO club. This did not persuade me, and I never went back.
The separation of the ranks sleeping arrangements and mess happens at more than just the E and O ranks. Chiefs have their own berthing and mess separate from the junior enlisted ranks. Sometimes even first classes have their own. Junior officers don't have a private wardroom like a Skipper or XO would. You did cover the reason why and it's not something that we hate but something we strive to get to in the ranks.
@jayphil while it’s true that officers and enlisted still have separate berthing (sleeping quarters) on the new Ford class carriers, the messes are all working from in many cases the very same kitchen, using a hub and spoke system so it’s not as though the Chiefs food will be much different from the E2 s food. Also, the sleeping situation for enlisted is vastly improved from cramming 180 sailors in small, hot, noisy pods. The Ford was designed for a better living experience for enlisted. Of course, officers still live in O Country.
I'm gonna be honest. As a junior enlisted, sharing a berthing with my Chief would suck ass.
@Jacobo Bearzatti have you talked to anyone on the Ford? They don’t share berthing with Chiefs but the share a comment kitchen
The Officers, Chiefs, and Enlisted messed are all funded separately under Congressional appropriation. Officers COULD NOT take our mess stores just because they wanted to buy one deployment the O5 in charge of their mess spent their budget allotment on new China, Silverware, and a piano and had to beg for food from the Enlisted mess. We gave them mostly hot dogs.
@@mickfunny4185 I bet there are 250 spoiled Chiefs who ain't happy about that. I did my mess cooking in the Chiefs mess and there would have been some people missing off the fantail if someone had tried that back then
Happy to be a retired Navy Enlisted member. If I wanted it different the Navy provides a pathway. My service has been a catalyst for my life, my parents could not afford college. The Navy paid for my college and again I'm happy to have served. I loved serving! Go Navy, smooth sailing....
My start was the Army in 1967, never look back only forward, my son got his college paid for, and is the CO at the KC Navy reserves.
This is crap. I served 21 years in the Navy, retired ADCS (E8). Never did I hate an Officer, there were both Officer and enlisted that I did not like but that had more to do with character than rank.
I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 and USS Forrestal CV-59 and I cant think of a single officer that I served with that didnt earn that privilege.
WOW, that are some old ships shipmate. GOD BLESS YOU! Retired Navy.
Trust me as a Naval Veteran who grew up aboard The USS Theodore Roosevelt, I've lived in a berthing where me & all the E4 and below in my division had to live stacked 3 high. The food was actually amazing though
I spent four years in the Navy and never went to sea except to fly over it. They also paid us housing as soon as we made E-4 and we got meal allowance overseas.
Captains have those awesome quarters but usually have to sleep (when they get the chance) on bunks in little rooms next to the bridge. When things get busy, s/he has someone bring them a sandwich.
I was an officer in the merchant marine. Once, I encountered the ship of a former classmate who had taken a commission in the Navy. I invited him to lunch aboard my ship and he, in turn, invited me to lunch aboard his. I was astonished to learn that he actually had to PAY for my meal on his ship, while the meal that he ate on my ship cost nothing. Inviting a guest to dine in the saloon (that is the merchant marine term for what the Navy calls the "wardroom") is regarded as common courtesy. That was the first time I learned that Navy officers actually have to pay for the food that they eat. In the merchant marine everybody on board, regardless of rating, eats the same food, prepared in the same galley, and the company pays for it. I won't comment on which service has the better food because I know from experience that the quality of the food varies, depending upon the steward department on the individual ship. However my father, who served on a number of different types of US Navy during WW-II, assured me that the submarines had the best food, followed by the fleet oilers. When I was on merchant ships we in the Persians Gulf during the Gulf War and the Iraq Invasion we sometimes invited soldiers aboard to share our meals, which we were always happy to do because we knew that our food was better than whatever military rations the soldiers were issued. Although there is a distinction in status between "licensed" and "unlicensed" personnel in the merchant marine, it is not as pronounced as the caste system that exists in the military between "officers" and "enlisted men". Unlike the military, in the merchant marine the officers and engineers are not "commissioned". Instead they possess a "license", issued by the Coast Guard, which they earned by virtue passing a stringent series of exams. In other words the officers and engineers are recognized as being highly-trained professionals who have demonstrated their ability to undertake the jobs that they occupy, rather than mere "officers and gentlemen" assigned to a position of authority. Another difference is that, unlike the Navy, any merchant marine seafarer can advance to become a Captain or a Chief Engineer by virtue of passing the requisite license examinations, and many individuals have done exactly that. Indeed, many of the finest Captains and Chief Engineers "came up through the hawse pipe", as the saying goes.
Naval air vet here, enlisted (AMS2). All the officers in the squadron were pilots. However, it was the CPOs and enlisted plane captains who really ran things; and no hatred that I knew of. Don’t understand the direction of this video.
Lived on 3 ships. A cruiser, a carrier, and a destroyer. The carrier was easily the best place!
Incorrect. Destroyer is the best. You know everyone onboard (which helps with camaraderie and scratching each other's back). Also, you visit ports that CVs/CVNs can't visit because of their size. You also dont need to wait a million years to get off the ship after pulling in. For a carrier, it takes forever to moore, secure the brow, and get off on liberty not to mention lines are miles long just to eat onboard a carrier (unless you're a CPO or officer).
Why I joined the Air Force. My father was a career Navy Chief, I saw how sailors lived when I was kid. My barracks and chow were always better.
People join the AF if they can't hack actual deployments and other hardships.
@@ruel1072 The Air Force was only good when it was compared to the Navy, Army, Marines, and Coast Guard. When we were compared to civilian life style...we didn't shine that well. Frankly I would have been proud to serve in any US armed force. I just had a "need for speed".. It's all good ! Retired flatbelly USAF MSgt...24 years. I do have to say the Navy's bell bottoms and light blue shirt was really cool....back in the day. O...I will say the Air Force was last on my list...I thought the other services were "cooler".
This is common sense and exist in some form or another in almost every aspect of life regardless of country or occupation.
I served as an officer in the Army and agree with most of the comments below. There was no hatred. There were both decent and hard-working officers and enlisted soldiers. As a junior officer, I relied on and was immensely grateful to the seasoned NCOs who I relied on for my success.
I was an electrician on a carrier. I made friends and fixed things in all the mess decks. I could eat anywhere I wanted, even in the captains mess before him. Their food was not all that different, but they did get better condiments, like A1 sauce.
Naval officers are not hated, actually, quite the opposite. When I was in the Navy, I liked and admired most of the officers I met. They were usually kind, decent, and very intelligent people.
Gearing Tin Can sailor here ('69-'73), we were too small and too tight to have any kind of pissing contest between ranks. I always felt the officers above me did their best to ensure we were cared for and free to do our jobs as we saw fit, they only came down our hole (aft fireroom) for annual inspection or when G.Q. was set. We did a Magellan, surface raids and fire support in So. China Sea, plane guarded carriers, all that good sailor stuff, but you just couldn't beat tin can life; we'd pull into the most remote backwater ports for liberty, and *we'd own the town for a night,* no carriers or cruisers in sight or ashore, something a twenty-year-old kid can never forget, too old and crusty now to go back on the water- hence "on the beach"- aka "Beachside". ☺
Yea ton can fleet was great duty. 6th fleet med cruises!! Baby!!! In 70s was the bomb!!!! Awesome!!!
Tin
Jonas Ingram DD 938!! 70s med cruises!!!
Sailors do not hate officers. Hate is an extremely strong word. If anything sailors complain because officers have a slightly better life at sea depending on their job. Black Shoe officers work long hours similar to enlisted sailors while officers who fly have a much less hectic life to endure while at sea.
officers bear shoulder of command
while sailors are the muscle
i remember someone expalining why officers had their rank insignias on their shoulders while the sailors had their rank insignias on the side of their arms.
I worked for Newport News Shipbuilding as an electronics technician for the aircraft carriers NTDS systems as a civilian in the 80's and early 90's. the person that had the plushest conditions was the battle group Admiral. his state room living quarters was large and larger than the Commanding Officers, he had his own conference room, tactical room and an entire bridge on the tower. if it said "force" it was for him.
was he a good man? see, if you have a captain of good nature, many men would follow to death.
I liked a lot of these comments. My dad was a USN Master Chief Petty Officer and a very good man. I read a comment on a navy website a while ago and a sailor on a ship my dad served made a kind reference to my dad, Chief Jordan. I will never forget that!
I didn't hate officers, I respected them, and relied on them for guidance and mission readiness. As a Navy veteran, the officers I served under never let us down. We owe good officers a sense of gratitude.
I would have loved to have met a good officer during my 6 years.
Sadly, none of the met the muster.
I was exposed to both enlisted and officer berthing during my adult career. Working your way up the ladder gets you those privileges. And working for the government after the military gives you more "special" privileges not offered to either enlisted or officers while on military installations and ships..
I served in HS-2, which was a antisubmarine helicopter squadron. The squadron had 25 officers, which 23 where helicopter pilots, one warrant officer, and one started his Navy career as a enlisted man, and went to officers candidate school, and he became a "Mustang" officer. I was a Aviation Structural Mechanic, and I worked in Corrosion control shop. I mainly removed corrosion from the helicopters, and I did paint them, put on squadron marking on them, and repaired fiber glass on the helicopters. He tried to force me to work against what it said in the Corrosion Control manual. There where some E-6 to E-9, in the squadron, who worked with him in other helicopter squadrons, during the Vietnam war, and they all told me that he was lazy, he slept a lot, lack knowledge on what it takes to do structural of any kind on helicopters, and that he had a hard time going from E-5 to E-6, and that is why he went to officers candidate school. That was the only officer that I had problems with, because, he made all the problems for me, and he took all of his frustration out on me too. The other 24 officers in the squadron, I got along with all of them well. HS-2 was part of the airwing that was assigned to these two aircraft carriers, the USS Ranger CV-61, and the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63. We didn't have to salute the officers when the carriers where out at sea. The only time we saluted the officers, is when the ship had liberty call in a foreign port, or in port at North Island Naval Air Station, San Diego, CA.
Brother were you on the Lincoln deployments in 06 and 08. I was there ships company
I served 3 years on USS Nimitz as an intelligence specialist. I never felt contempt for my senior officers. I always respected them. They typically had more responsibility and much harder jobs. After serving both as an enlisted and an officer I worked as a pilot for American Airlines. The authority as a captain in the airlines was much more nuanced and at time more difficult. In the Navy it is clear cut.
Lcdr, USN, retired here, The officers generally eat the same food as the enlisted crew, it all comes from the same freezers and pantry storage. We have separate cooking and grilling of the meals. We sit at the wardroom dining table and the "mess cooks" bring us our meals. We don't stand in the chow line". The same applies to Subs. The biggest difference is that the officers pay a lot for our meals. At the end of each month the Supply Officer is in the wardroom with his money box and we pay in cash. Back in the 80's I paid up to $150.00 per month to eat the same food as the deck seaman who does NOT pay.
Now there is a menu. They still pay but it isn't much.
WRONG. . . Some of the best crews are tight, because they have a bond with leadership. Carriers are too big to have that close working relationship. Tin cans and smaller ones have it. On the submarine I was on, the Skipper was in crews mess, drinking coffee and visiting with the crew. He had his finger on the pulse and took care of his men and we took care of him. THAT is what makes for a close nit crew. 5000 plus on a bird farm, no way. Each division has a close working relationship, but the Captain can't know every
an officer is no longer a person of means, independently wealthy as it was in Washington's day. My dad was an officer and he was no more well to do than any enlisted man. He did have to pay for his own uniforms and food which I always that was stupid. His uniforms were way more expensive. He was USCG, Academy grad and retired as O-6
You're father also made bank. Stupid money compared to the rest of his crew.
He also at that rank had a stateroom, got to eat in an area with much better food.
He can say he wasn't that well off compared to enlisted but that's just ignorant
Enlisted pay for their Uniforms as well. Yes, they receive a Cothing Allowance to maintain their Sea Bag. As for meals, Enlisted will receive Per diem when not eating at the Galley on base. On deployment, you will lose it as you have Access to the Ships Mess Decks. Commissioned Officer have to pay for their Meals on deployment.
@@curtekstrom9531 enlisted get BAS. Depending on the command they may or may not allow the BAS to be taken. It is not per diem, or at least not in how the navy defines it.
On a ship the BAS is taken out, in a command it may or may not get taken out.
Regardless, an officer pays the same amount as the enlisted "pays"
10 bucks and some change per day.
However in port, said officer doesn't get charged for not eating at the mess. Whereas enlisted still get their BAS taken.
My point is, that regardless of paying or not, an officer still makes significantly more then their enlisted counterpart.
Quality of life as an officer/khaki in the navy is significantly higher, and this is one of the few things they can complain about. However it's a near non existent complaint.
Please look at a military pay chart.
This is bilge! Every former Navy sailor I know who served on carriers had fairly good relationships with their officers for the most part. There were yahoos of course but you find that in all ranks in all the services. I was in the Army and Army Reserve for 26 1/2 yrs and the same held true there too.
I was a Boiler Tech onboard the USS CONSTELLATION (CV-64) 88-90. We didn't hate officers. As long as we were professional, they usually were. I once had an officer (whom had been recently qualified to do my job so he would understand his men) to relieve me two hours early and tell me to go get some extra sleep. (We were working 6 hours on and 6 hours off so you usually got about 4 hours each time you were off because you had to eat, shower, and handle any misc business or sometimes extra training on your off time.) I would have followed him to hell... I respected him that much.
hey shipmate, Connie (77-81), worked in the Jet Shop and had a soda mess back then, there were certain hours the soda mess was open. Anytime a SNIPE would show up, alway open only for them. We felt sorry for you guys. No daylight, loud, hot. Prisons are nicer than what you guys did.
I was deployed on the U.S.S. Lexington and U.S.S. NASSAU. I had no complaints about the food on the ship. Lobster & Steak Fridays! Always looking forward to it. 🇺🇲🇺🇲⚓⚓🛫