To be honest man, I loved that Thor didn't move and Tony was only mildly moved back when Steve threw his shield. It puts it into perspective their level compared to a super soldier. But at the same time, it's so Cap to throw that shield at them regardless and make the statement.
The thing about Tony not being super-fond of Cap at the start is that he was jealous of how much his father "wouldn't shut up about" Cap, when he was growing up. Howard seemed to heap on Cap the praise Tony desperately wanted.
Tony saying, "call it Cap" wasn't an order. He was giving Cap some encouragement, and letting him know that as a team, they will follow his lead. That's all that was.
Probably, but it's a pretty vague line to include especially since they don't really show Cap espousing his world views. What did he mean exactly? We don't know because he doesn't opine about the state of the country in any other scene that I can remember.
I think It means that America, the country he fought for, ended the WW2 by essentially killing civilian lives. That didn't feel like a victory for him, it stands against his beliefs.
But again why does that matter. He fought in a war he believed in why would he not like what it cost to win? Captain America is Anti American in the mcu
Aaaannnnndddd world War 2 Wasn't supposed to make the world a better place. Hell is one reason of going into The war is to stop a "bully". Turn world war two really screwed us over and a long news for different reasons it's not something i doubt in america would know about even a general Population doesn't know the consequences of world war two
I disagree with the “call it” scene complaint. I felt like in that moment iron man wasn’t saying that for the sake of giving an order he was demonstrating that he knows he not the leader of this.
True but point is that status wasn’t evinced in the film thitherto. Sometimes it seemed like his history earned him authority with Coulson and Fury, but Tony was apathetic and the public didn’t seem to know who he was largely.
I mess with guys videos but I’m ngl he was really just tapping in this one. The fact that every comment is essentially saying he was overthinking everything just further proves that. Was Cap perfect in this film? No, but it was serviceable and wasn’t nearly as bad as the UA-camr is making it. The fact that he was the only one to call Hulk, Hilk just shows he’s a good leader because he respect all of them as a leader and knows them.
Cap isn’t on the same power level as Ultron or Loki. Hawkeye and Widow pointing this out isn’t a flaw, nor does it diminish his power. If anything, these moments just show how well characterized Cap is. He doesn’t give up in the face of adversity. He’ll fight the good fight regardless of how outmatched he is. In his own words, he can do this all day.
Is Iron Man on the same level, though? Civil War shows how Cap can hold his own against Tony even after Bucky is out of the fight. Tony had to rely on Friday to analyse Cap's fight patterns or else he'd be beaten into a metal mush. Loki has been nerfed, so even you and I can probably take him on. My point is that power levels in Marvel movies are somewhat irregular, and there are better ways to show Cap's unyielding resolve. Hell, they themselves do it right in Endgame when Cap, broken shield and all, stands against Thanos and his army by himself.
@@Yadadameanfool No you moron he's scaled accordingly, he beat spiderman, iron man with help from bucky though, carried a big helicopter with one arm, lifted thor hammer, throw a bike to a jeep, and many other peak human feats. I don't get this nonsense about Steve being nerfed, capt isn't some op dude he's a super soilder above street tier, his strength is appropriately scaled.
Okay you claim to have seen this movie like 800 times, yet you never realized Cap's "what we lost" line is referring to the modern world being more morally ambiguous than the one he remembers? Or that everyone in the room when Cap and Tony are arguing is being manipulated by the Mind Stone? The odd camera angles during that scene are practically screaming this.
He just didn’t hear the “what” part. I didn’t understand it either. I heard “the world doesn’t understand we lost” not “what we lost” I only now hear it after reading your comment.
@@Birdlegs14 I heard it all 6 times I watched the movie. My 70 year old mom with horrible hearing just watched it last year, heard it and understood its meaning. I can understand not hearing it the first 100 times. But the other 700 is on him lol
1:32 “I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, and they say that we won - they didn’t say WHAT we lost” The idea is that the sacrifices made to win, seem insignificant to most people. It plays into the theme of sacrifice later in the movie (His argument with Tony, then Tony “making the sacrifice play” later in the movie.) Honestly it’s one of my favorite lines of his in the movie
Yeah it was pretty easy to hear that I don’t know how he didn’t notice that. It’s even easy to search up the script it’s literally word for word what you said he could’ve done that too 😭😭
I always thought about Hiroshima, Normandy, Vietnam and the reputation of USA From biggest growing world leader to most hated by world (but for some reason everybody wants to live in he usa🤣🤣🤣🤣)
A lot of Cap's disdain for Iron Man and their argument was orchestrated by Loki using the mind stone to influence all of the Avengers to go at one another. That's why Cap and the rest of the Avengers did and said things that were uncharacteristic of them at that time.
I love all these MCU fanboys being so offended by this video. You guys are what’s wrong with the movie industry. A bunch of sheep buying tickets to these half assed “films”
Even if that's true, and literally none of that bickering would have occurred without some outside manipulation, it still doesn't work as an explanation unless you actually take the time to explain that at some point. The only visual or dialogue indication we get is that Banner in particular might be influenced somehow. And even then, it's kind of a weak plot point, given that Loki wasn't actually in possession of either the scepter or the stone inside it at the time. With the exception of this moment, maybe, we've seen zero indication at any point in the franchise that an Infinity Stone can be remotely controlled. So, no criticism of you meant for bringing it up or anything, but that explanation just doesn't work from a writing perspective. Maybe a rationale was envisioned for everybody acting petty and argumentative, but if all we see is the action, that's really all we can judge.
@@mikeroylance289 what everyone else said. They enter the scene upside down with the focus being the scepter as it glows, then the camera flips upright to then show the avengers arguing. I suggest revisiting the film.
The "didn't tell me what we lost" line is not that odd when you take into account Steve is entering a new world eager to trade freedoms for security. This is really highlighted in winter soldier with his views on the gun ships.
The conmment about Cap saying, "Put on the suit, let's go a few rounds" is totally missing the mark. The Infinity Stone within Lokis weapon is causing dissent amongst those close by. It's a spell of possibly another effect, but clearly the ringing tone indicates something is attempting to instigate all those assembled. Remember what happens soon after? Infighting, triggered by setting off the Hulk...all perpetrated by Loki. Cap is being controlled or manipulated into exhibiting hostility unbefitting his morals.
I feel like Tony and Cap not being friends at the start made sense, not from caps side, I’d expect he’d have some respect for the son of Howard, but from Tony’s side, it was stated that Howard always talked about cap, which would likely fuel Tony’s whole daddy issues towards cap.
It makes sense for Cap to hate Tony too. From the outside looking in, Tony seems like a reckless ahole who likes blowing things up. Cap doesn't know that he's actually a standup guy who is willing to make sacrifices in order to save others.
So...you just ignore all the times he's cool in the movie? His shield blocking mjolnir, for example? Or his awesome response to Black Widow's "gods" line? Also...those times, like that one, that someone tries to talk Cap out of going into a fight, are there to make him look good! It shows that even though he's not a match for someone like Thor or the Hulk, he just goes in anyway. That is the essence of Captain America.
Yea totally that God line of his is interesting because whedon is an atheist and he still wrote that response so I wouldn't say he has no respect for captain america he easilly could have had cap say something like I got to try ma'am
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson my point is he showed the character respect when he put that line there since it went against his personal beliefs. He could have put another response instead but he used one that added a layer to the character even if he felt uncomfortable with it. On the commentary he said that people asked if he's an atheist why did he write that line he just said he is one but cap isn't. I thought that was a very fair mindset.
@@jacobwest7 that's awesome to hear. It was a great line that fit the character. Some of the best writers can write characters that have completely different views from them without disrespecting them or their views.
personally cap's line of "there's only one god ma'am and im pretty sure he doesn't dress like that" felt like the writer's talking down to the audience because in cannon Thor is a god by earth standards, so it feels like he's saying something that's blatently wrong in lore, because "hey guys look religion's dumb"
What we lost since WW2? Trust in the government. Trust in other people. Moral certainty. Working together for positive change. That sort of stuff. I thought it was a good line.
what we “lost” according to Cap is that we sacrificed our freedoms for security as revealed in Winter soldier. a lot of real world implications right there 🤯
I feel like his power level was at a pretty good point, Captain America is superhuman, but Loki is well beyond that. We see Loki brush off bullets like they are nothing, in spite of that he manages to put up a pretty good fight.
Umm...Joss is a tool, but he was VERY good to Captain America 🇺🇸 in AVENGERS 1. Cap is is the most resoundingly good character in the whole movie and in it is established Why he is also WORTHY of the power of Thor for which we get as one of tge few good payoffs in Endgame. I think you are just a bit misguided as to the intent of the scenes you're examining. Please know, Cap really can do this all day.
OK? Argue your points. Explain how his inteperatations of those scenes are wrong. Instead of just saying they are. Is he worthy because he picks a fight with Tony because his feelings got hurt? Or because he lost every single fight and needed help constantly?
1:44 They lost people. Certain freedoms. Certain lifstyles. Certain ideologies. Could be anything. It's not that hard to work out. 4:00 No. Stark has zero respect for cap. This is explained in further movies. Stark's distain for Cap in Avengers is because his father wouldn't ever shut up about him. His father idolized Cap, whilst treating his own son like dirt. It's daddy-issues and jealousy. That's why
Some things you misunderstood, like many in the comments pointed out, like the “we lost” line and the fact that the stone was making the team more hostile. Though I do agree that this film didn’t fully do him justice, they could have displayed his strength and leadership skills far better. Glad that later films did him more justice in that regard, that helicopter scene in Winter Solider is great or that scene in Endgame where he’s about to face Thanos and his army alone, a nice nod to Infinity Gauntlet.
-he was being mind controlled while the "few rounds" part. -you want to make the statement that in the meet up part, he is treated as weak, but he literally blocks a hit from the magic weapon of a god, being one of the most iconic shots of the movie and of course you cut that part. -when he loses you say "he is presented as weak" when he beats a bunch of super aliens you say he is "showing off" yeah. -saying that he is somehow treated like less of an authority because stark told him that basically they are waiting for orders is just ridiculous, totally missing the point of tony going from disrespecting him to respecting his orders. Honestly maybe 30% of the points given in this video are valid maybe(? but yeah most of it just comes off as you cherrypicking stuff after you alredy decided that cap is treated bad in this movie and you just wanna reinforce that thought, while in reality you are forcing that narrative too much
Imagine saying Captain America is weak and the scene you choose to showcase this is Loki manipulating Thor to beat Iron Man with Mjolnir and Cap freediving out of a moving plane and blocking Thor's hammer, immediately mediating the fight and establishing himself as leader.
I think the thing about losing the war was more about how the modern world is complete shit - how we abandoned everything that made us great we abandoned the American values and culture that he was fighting to protect - which is true, our culture has been going to shit since the 1960s and it really sped up the shit show in the 2010s.
@@TH3DUDE0075 Have to agree on that one. I watched a vid about what an invasion would have probably been like, we might have won, but like you said it would have been a blood bath for both sides, landing troops would be dangerous and cost American lives while the Japanese seemed prepared to fight to the bitter end, even civvies. The reason they surrendered when we dropped the bombs was cause they had barely any defense against that type of weapon, and why bother wasting more lives in more bombings, least with the invasion they'd go down honorably fighting to the end.
Steve knows there are both good consequences and bad consequences after every war. He was told the good consequences but didn’t know all the bad consequences yet.
Between this and your Hulk video, I feel your readings of these characters are one note. Especially Cap. His arc in this movie is about how he feels useless and purposeless in the present. He dislikes Iron Man at first because of his lack of respect and how, on some level, he confirms Cap's insecurities. That's what leads to their argument, along with Loki's magic playing with their heads. The point is that Cap's insecurities are making him act out of character, that he's losing sight of what's important for the sake of nursing his bruised ego. But later, Cap comes to his senses and, in New York, he proves his usefulness by being the courageous leader to rally everyone together and give the orders, be it to the heroes or the cops. And no, Iron Man saying "call it, Captain" is NOT Iron Man giving an order to Cap. It's a moment that shows Iron Man's growth too, because throughout the film he's been taking control of every situation, making everything about him. Here, we're seeing an Iron Man willing to delegate and take orders from someone else. As for Captain America's power level, I guess you have a point, although him standing toe-to-toe with aliens I would argue shows his toughness pretty well. The action could be better choreographed, but it gets the job done.
@@UnifiedEntity Whether you accept it or not, that's pretty much what happened. The whole reason Loki allowed himself to be captured was to use the scepter (Mind Stone) to trigger Banner's transformation into the Hulk, which it eventually did. But the scepter was affecting everyone in the room, making them all act more irrational and aggressive than normal. The weird camera angles during that scene clearly imply this.
OK Joss doesn't hate cap...the dude who made this video does..He also has no concept of difference of Caps power set as apposed to a guy who has a suit a God or a rage monster. Clueless
I'm gonna have to disagree with this take. I think you saw a few things in this and viewed everything else through the lense that it probably was meant to suck. Instead of seeing the awesome moments for what they were. Like for example: -The fact that captain America was fighting loki despite the power difference -blocking Mjlnior -the fact that Captain America did destroy some of the chitari -Captain America was organizing most of the shots despite being beat down over and over again. In summary I don't find your argument strong enough say that Cap looked pathetic in this movie
@@succboah2000 nigga he’s trash in the first movie. I’ve seen every marvel movie to date. Compared to his later feats he’s ass, garbage, trash, sucky, doo doo.
@@xanacary2071 Clearly you didn’t read the previous dudes comment. He says he doesn’t do anything cool despite being a dude who’s in peak human psychic and manages to have one of the greatest feats in the MCU. Broski is expecting Captain America to fight god on day one
I actually like the design of Cap's first modern suit. I thin it works because it' kind of cheesy and impractical looking, we do later on see him use more detailed and practical suits.
I think you forgot that Loki's staff was influencing them. Cap's great and all, but he's still a guy and remember, he came from an era where men could settle things in a fist fight. "I can do this all day" scene. You're right about the Stark love, though. Whedon loves Tony Stark. But it's Captain who bonds with Coulsen and the other teammates. He ignores the Hulk to respect Banner and Tony tries to ignite the Hulk while miles in the air.
And I would even say that it adds to character, since he looks more human for being angry at times (even if it's with the stone help) and not 100% calm person
While I do think Joss Whedon hates Captain America, it doesn’t show in this movie. Cap is still very pivotal, and let’s not forget, there’s a massive deleted scene prior to the gym scene that shows him going about his day in the modern world (including the blonde-haired woman he saved later meeting and trying to flirt with him). It’s Age of Ultron where Whedon’s distaste for Cap (and all of his other worst qualities) really becomes apparent.
i hate this recent revisionism of Joss Whedon with this nonsense arguments just to try to shit on him, he literally started the real success of the mcu with this movie that is freakin' awesome too, this movie was a near impossible task because it was a new type of project but he succeeded so much, even beyond the expectations and everyone loved it when it came out, the fact that he made mediocre/bad stuff after or because he's probably an asshole as a person doesn't make his good stuff bad, and not just this movie, he made like 3 cult tv series too, just leave him alone.
Oh stop pushing that lie that the avengers was a near impossible task. The avengers is no different than Any large cast film. A bad guy got himself a magic rock to portal to bring an army to take over the world. A group of individuals Come together to stop him. Take away the novelty and the hype the film ages terribly.
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 im sorry thats a dumb simplification, its like a comic book crossover that ends a production phase but done at the cinema, that put together a vastly different range of characters and they worked, before this movie every character except hawkeye and Black widow got a solo movie, iron man got 2 movies, yeah it was a new type of project never done before and its not aged at all
1:30 I disagree with you here. It's clear he's talking about WWII. Steve says "they say we won; they didn't say what we lost" and then you go "Is it WW2? But we won that." Yeah, the Allies won the war. But we also lost things along the way. The American way of life changed post-war. Certain rights that people had pre-war were gone post-war. Hell, look at things people could do pre-9/11 vs. after. It's not up to the MCU to explain real world history that isn't tied into MCU specific lore.
These videos are great. It's immensely entertaining listening to you just disassemble these movies. I didn't notice most of the stuff you mention, but you're totally right.
Cap is a man so out of touch with the current world, sometimes he seems dum for not getting it, and worse he seems like a mere mortal compared to his colleagues and enemy he is facing. Thats not josh hating cap, thats the reality for cap. But cap being cap he doesn’t pack up his shield and just have an early retirement . He goes in to give it the best his got even though sometimes its futile. But thats cap. He can do that all day, and sometimes it might take him all day😅.
I love this video, but I always thought the line Cap says at 1:40 about "what we lost" was in reference to all the people who fought and/or died during WW2. Like how they were forgotten along with their sacrifices, Bucky being one of them of course.
Russos did Cap justice in my eyes because they highlighted his determination, as shown in Endgame, when he stands up against Thanos alone, even when his shield is damaged, and his body is bloodied. A true warrior
Iron Man DID NOT order Cap to give the orders... He is literally acknowledging that Cap is the best equipped to make the tactical call, finally showing Cap that he respects him. That being said, I do agree that Avengers 1 severely underutilized him. The Russo brothers fixed it and he quickly became the fan favorite.
I just rewatched this movie, and other than a lack of power creep, Cap wasn’t ruined in this film. He is much more underwhelming in Age of Ultron for me.
The reason cap was arguing with tony in Avengers 1, and resorted to physical threats was because of Loki's sceptre. It was messing with everyone, that was the point.
I really can see how Cap was somehow diminish in this film, but at the same time in the next films I think he was better worked, like in the Winter Soldier, Civil War and Infinity War... But, these movies was not Josh Wheadon directing, so... Anyway, the sad part is that we probably never will see a good representation of the character anymore, because Disney/Marvel hates all that makes Cap's the leader and hero which we all like, and just use now the "mantle" to push any agenda they want...
I think I remember being 10 years old and seeing Avengers and being confused the movie didn't pick up right where the post credits scene of Captain America The First Avenger left off and show us Steve Rogers' reaction to a world way different than the one he was in before he got frozen in ice...was disappointed we didn't get to see much of that.
When cap says we lost I think he means we lost because there is still war, from what I remember people thought that world war 2 would be the war to end all wars and after it there would be no war so him seeing that there is more war means that we lost TLDR: he thinks all the fighting was in vein bc even after WW2 war still happened
Bro that line about what they lost was actually great. When he says "they said we won, they didn't say what we lost", Steve is referring to the sacrifices he and his fellow soldiers made on the battlefield, leaving behind their loved ones, in some cases losing limbs or quality of life or a chance at a future, and the ways that the world had to compromise and change in order to succeed. Hell, the US had to temporarily ally with the USSR to win World War 2, we had to invent and then utilize nuclear armaments to win World War 2. You could literally take Steve's statement as a face-value remark about Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and ignore all other nuance and meaning and it would still be a perfect line.
01:46 I think he's saying, if im not wrong, that America had lost it's values. Compare the 50s to now. Crime's through the roof, you need two parents working to support a small family, the housing market is insane, etc... Someone told me that they voted for trump because they saw "making american great again" as being able to support a big family on one income AND being able to buy a house. 03:02 He IS a small fish in a large pond. He cant throw down with Loki, that would make Loki look weak af. Loki only surrendered when he got knocked down from Iron man then Iron man pulled EVERY WEAPON he had and targeted Loki. Captain America doesnt fight because he'll win. He'll fight because he can, because it's right and because he'll never stop. His "hero power" isnt the super soldier steroids, it's his heart and determination. Loki was turning them against each other using the sceptre. This is shown and stated (that Loki's plan is to release the hulk) Captain America stopped the grenade from taking out the propeller! He saved the ship with that! He couldnt understand starks technical instructions which is totally reasonable. 07:45 That scene was perfect. It showed the police not knowing what was going on, captain taking charge of the situation, them asking what authority do you have? then he takes down multiple aliens with ease demonstrating he's highly capable, then the policeman immediately follows the orders. it's funny and it shows his skill. 09:55 The bomb was meant to be dropped down into the crowd, instead it just blew up on the top floor; saving the people's lives
To be fair, during the first Avengers movie, when Cap challenged Tony to "put on the suit" and go a few rounds, he like everyone else in the room was under the influence of the mind stone. They were all acting pretty wonky in that scene ...
Your points are valid, I understand Cap is a massive fan favorite and people's responses are rather defensive. Even though all the things you pointed out don't bother me when I watch this movie, it is rather weird how weak Cap looks in some of these scenes. Struggling against namless goons is definitely something they fixed about him as the MCU progressed. Already in Winter Soldier he takes out a dozen men in an elevator
What your ignoring is thatvhe was fighting aliens...not humans humans he handles just fine especially hand to hand, but with modern guns which was the fight on the helicarrier....ehhhh its to be expected
The only reason he struggled there is because he was forced to stay in one exposed spot that wasn’t close to the enemies while they had ranged weapons and he did not. While on a crashing helicarrier. He was at just about every disadvantage imaginable in that one situation
You make a lot of good points. The characters are only as smart as the writers. I think his fish out of water story was only really used it for humor. Definitely should have shown how he reacted to the strange new world around him. Thor went through something similar in his first movie, but it was in service to his arc with a few jokes here and there. I think the show Avengers: Earth's mightiest heroes was able to make him have a good relationship with Tony Stark, while still being at odds with him because they had such different views on the world. I miss when Marvel had a unique identity, and treated their characters with respect. Now Marvel is just the MCU.
And the viewers are only as smart as the viewers. This was a baffling misread of the films, he didn't make good points, he twisted everything that happened to fit his conclusion.
he didnt make a single good point. All his points were bafflingly stupid, or straight up lying to try and make his point. This is the worst case of, start with a conclusion and try your hardest to twist reality to fit it I've ever seen
3:37 You're absolutely right, you can tell the difference between how Whedon directed and the Russos directed how Cap was favored. It was frustrating to watch Whedon put him down in favor of other characters he wanted to highlight. There was enough movie for everyone to have gotten some shine
how did he put him down? Cap fights a god and then is the one giving orders by the end of the movie. Cap appears weak in avengers because he just is supersoldiers like him are low-tier outside of street-level and Russo cap is clearly shown as weaker then IronMan by far. Cap is usually the underdog because it's his character to always pick the biggest threat or have you not seen First Avenger? When Steve was a wimp he picked fights he could win and then when he became a supersoldier he kept picking fights he couldn't win i.e his character didn't change at all he's still a wimp getting beat down except now it's by gods like Loki or Thanos. his best trait was always that he would fight no matter what for what he believed was right. In Avengers steve being a supersoldier is meant to be insignificant because thats not what he brings to the team they don't need a lowtier strong man they already have IronMan and Hulk and a literal god, what Steve offers is leadership, inspiration, and a moral compass.
I love your commentary!! Your videos are amazing. I did an analysis of Black Panther from the point of view from a therapist. I had a lot of gripes with that character and I would love you to do a video on him!
Can you do one of these videos on Thor as well? Also I always interpreted tony saying call it cap as his version of saying “ cap how should we do this “ more than ordering him to come up with a strategy.
This comes off like your diggin for things to dislike.. the scene where he’s threatening Stark the entire room was being influenced by the stone, they were all set trippin with each other. & lastly I think you’re missing the entire point of his arch in the movie he’s literally fresh outta being on ice for 70 years.. a literal fish out of water.
Tony did not come out on top of those arguments he was wrong Captain America is a legend it’s not what’s in the bottle it’s what’s in the person and Tony is just a man and a iron suit we’ve seen that in Iron Man three. Besides, Captain America is more of a man than Iron Man is. They were both right and then later movies we do see how self-centered Tony’s he cares more about his own Eagles and protecting the world that’s why Civil War started.
This movie was lit. Capt just came back after being frozen. He’s in a whole new world in a whole new league. And yes they won the war but he lost a lot of his friends. The soldiers are the only ones who suffer from war because to us it’s just numbers and win or lose. To soldiers it’s their brothers and it’s life or death. He portrayed that well. And I think this movie would suck if capt automatically gained leadership. Like nobody really knows who he is. They are taking a chance with him. There’s all these other heroes with greater power, train and experience. If capt just came and took over it would be stupid. Respect isn’t given, it’s earned. And I think he needed to lose in this new world to really become the leader he is today. This movie was great.
You know Cap throws the shield at Thor and Tony to get their attention right? He's not trying to take their heads off or something. He's trying to diffuse the situation, that's why he jumped down there in the first place. Cap isn't trying to kick ass, he's trying to be a mediator because that's one of his strengths as a hero. It doesn't matter that he's not as strong as Tony, Hulk or Thor, he's a good leader and he's got an unbreaking spirit. He keeps fighting even against seemingly impossible odds, that's why Tony's wrong when he says 'everything special about you came out of a bottle' because, it's just not true. What makes Cap special is his heart and willingness to stand up against bullies. It doesn't matter if they're the god of mischief, a crazy robot man or space aliens. It doesn't matter if he's outnumbered or fighting alongside friends, he'll still keep fighting no matter what. That's why we find him admirable. Oh and by the way, just because the Allies won WWII doesn't mean that the world's all peachy. America lost a lot of freedoms after that war and a lot of really bad things continued to happen later down the line. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, the cold war, 9/11. I think Cap has every right to be upset about 'what we lost'.
6:55 gotta disagree there. As of the start of the movie it's clear Cap has been basically in hiding to adjust to the modern world. I don't think anyone would recognize him yet as being THE captain america back from the dead. Like, if I was a cop stuck in a warzone like that, and some dude looking like an Abe Lincoln cosplayer runs up and starta giving me orders like he thinks he's the actual fucking president, I'm gonna question it.
For the record this movie was actually not wrong captain in the avengers movie was all of what you stated because he just re awakend , he did not learn any of the fighting styles he learned later on yet , he was still learning , that scene where he flew out the window and was sad after wasn't him being embarrassed, it was him wondering what he's doing among these super powered gods and humans fighting something extra terrestrial
"I wake up and they say we won. They didn't say what we lost." He says this line because for Cap, he didn't get any time to celebrate winning the war or mourning the losses of loved ones. He wakes up and all of it is over. Including the mourning.
You mean to say, he’s fresh out of the ice, super rusty at everything and then he gets character development along the line ???? Your entire gripe was that he wasn’t perfect from the start lmfao. It’s amazing to see him be this shit in avengers, and ending up with him being a confident leader of the Avengers against Thanos in End Game.
If ur wondering wut cap said to Nick Fury "They say we won the war, they didn't say wut we lost" Well from my perspective Steve was talking about the soldiers that was lost in the war and the families of said soldiers but that's my assumption.
Definitely nitpicking on the “call it cap”. I’m the leader type and when I’m on a team with another leader type, usually one of us has to let the other know, who’s following who’s lead. Iron man is the second leader of the avengers. He’s letting cap know and the rest of the team, we’re listening. It’s respect. Especially since cap isn’t the strongest.
This is a guy that had character development in his ark too . but when the avengers started they defrost him and he is getting around in the world again . But in other avengers movies he did put up decent fights and he did give Thanos a little bit of a run for his money and endgame !
This has gotta be the most bizarre twisted interpretation of what happens in the film I've ever seen. How do you actually watch the movie and come out thinking this??
Your take on this movie shows me you didn't understand the material. I haven't finished the whole thing yet but you were wrong about when Captain America was arguing with Iron Man he didn't come across as immature for wanting to scrap with Tony they were all out of character and they were all exceptionally aggressive due to the fact that they were standing next to the scepter the scepter was compromising their minds. Also the line about when steve said they said "we won the war but they didn't say what we lost" steve was talking about what America had to give up or sacrifice or compromise in order to win it wasn't just a clean win whether it was physically or morally we lost something Steve is famous for saying that they never trade lives so even one death on the American side was a loss for Captain America.. it's like a comic book with the MCU you have to look deeper and read between the lines on the page a lot of times there's fans who miss out on character development or a character's personality because of the action surrounding it. Read between the lines
Well, I always thought of the mind stone as an enabler. It's just bringing what they already thought to the surface, giving them the nudge to say their thoughts out loud. And who wouldn't want to punch Tony in the face at this point? He's an asshole, he says things that make people mad, lol. I'd wanna punch him too if he was constantly ragging on me for no reason. And the "we won and lost the war" line could have been written more clearly. Why couldnt he just say that outright? Why'd he have to be ambiguous? Steve isn't an ambiguous guy, he usually just says what's on his mind. It's a movie, not a comic, you often can't include as many moments to "read between the lines" when you have time constraints and the like.
So how is it that Captain America, who could fight the Hulk physically without the aid of technology or super power or whatnot, look like a clown in this movie? Have you seen what Captain America could do in his own solo movie? Or like the guy said, have you seen the disrespect thrown at Cap? The most famous hero in America? Sorry, but just like the Hulk, they both drew the short end of the stick.
I don't think it even takes reading between the lines The ‘didn't say what we lost’ line's pretty clear imo. I do think there are other valid criticisms in here though
by this logic his next video can be like "heroes who fails and struggles to reach their goals sucks, so why captain marvel is the best hero ever?" or "Netflix's Daredevil sucks because he got beat too much times and he's always sad"
The scene where cap makes "physical threats" is because mind stone. Granted its never done. Ever. Again. But its there. Plus everyone in the room is affected. Even banner
i think that line was meant to say that he learned about all the wars that followed. maybe Steve thought WW2 was the "war to end them all", but humanity just kept on killing one another anyway.
To be honest man, I loved that Thor didn't move and Tony was only mildly moved back when Steve threw his shield. It puts it into perspective their level compared to a super soldier. But at the same time, it's so Cap to throw that shield at them regardless and make the statement.
Yeah, they did a good job there showing the power levels
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp 100%. I loved how Thor was able to destroy Iron Man's titanium alloy like it was a coke can in his fingers.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp They did a piss poor job. He makes a good point about Cap. He's so underpowered compared to his comic counterpart.
@@hughjass69933 more like over power
@@miminoran8948 LOL in what way? Because he's so underpowered that he's on the same level as Hawkeye and Black Widow.
The thing about Tony not being super-fond of Cap at the start is that he was jealous of how much his father "wouldn't shut up about" Cap, when he was growing up. Howard seemed to heap on Cap the praise Tony desperately wanted.
precisely, no one gets this
Tony saying, "call it Cap" wasn't an order. He was giving Cap some encouragement, and letting him know that as a team, they will follow his lead. That's all that was.
So.... an order?
@@testing_something
Lol
It’s still an order 😂
@@testing_something not it isn’t he simply asking captain America what should we do he’s the best one to devise a plan
But he shouldn’t need to tell cap to call it cap should just call it
doesnt the “we lost” line refer to his disdain for usa’s moraly gray/questionable post-ww2 military ventures?
that's what I though too.
Probably, but it's a pretty vague line to include especially since they don't really show Cap espousing his world views. What did he mean exactly? We don't know because he doesn't opine about the state of the country in any other scene that I can remember.
I always thought it was to do with the nukings
I think It means that America, the country he fought for, ended the WW2 by essentially killing civilian lives.
That didn't feel like a victory for him, it stands against his beliefs.
But again why does that matter. He fought in a war he believed in why would he not like what it cost to win? Captain America is Anti American in the mcu
Steve said “They didn’t say WHAT we lost,” which means he is pointing out the fact that there are still problems in their world.
Aaaannnnndddd world War 2 Wasn't supposed to make the world a better place. Hell is one reason of going into The war is to stop a "bully". Turn world war two really screwed us over and a long news for different reasons it's not something i doubt in america would know about even a general Population doesn't know the consequences of world war two
I paused the video and came looking for this comment. Thanks for letting him know.
@@mikaelgabriel1601 yeah that was unbearable to hear
I disagree with the “call it” scene complaint. I felt like in that moment iron man wasn’t saying that for the sake of giving an order he was demonstrating that he knows he not the leader of this.
Yeah that point was rly not picky in the first place imo
True but point is that status wasn’t evinced in the film thitherto. Sometimes it seemed like his history earned him authority with Coulson and Fury, but Tony was apathetic and the public didn’t seem to know who he was largely.
Right. Its basically him asking what do they do.
I mess with guys videos but I’m ngl he was really just tapping in this one. The fact that every comment is essentially saying he was overthinking everything just further proves that. Was Cap perfect in this film? No, but it was serviceable and wasn’t nearly as bad as the UA-camr is making it. The fact that he was the only one to call Hulk, Hilk just shows he’s a good leader because he respect all of them as a leader and knows them.
Cap isn’t on the same power level as Ultron or Loki. Hawkeye and Widow pointing this out isn’t a flaw, nor does it diminish his power. If anything, these moments just show how well characterized Cap is. He doesn’t give up in the face of adversity. He’ll fight the good fight regardless of how outmatched he is. In his own words, he can do this all day.
Is Iron Man on the same level, though? Civil War shows how Cap can hold his own against Tony even after Bucky is out of the fight. Tony had to rely on Friday to analyse Cap's fight patterns or else he'd be beaten into a metal mush. Loki has been nerfed, so even you and I can probably take him on. My point is that power levels in Marvel movies are somewhat irregular, and there are better ways to show Cap's unyielding resolve. Hell, they themselves do it right in Endgame when Cap, broken shield and all, stands against Thanos and his army by himself.
Cap is still way nerfed in these movies, Batflecks scene in BVS makes Batman look stronger and faster than Captain America in the MCU films.
@@olivercrespo2329 Nerfed? You're delusional capt is scale accordingly if not more stronger than his comic counterpart.
@@colindowden2182bullshit and you know it but whatever you say I guess
@@Yadadameanfool No you moron he's scaled accordingly, he beat spiderman, iron man with help from bucky though, carried a big helicopter with one arm, lifted thor hammer, throw a bike to a jeep, and many other peak human feats. I don't get this nonsense about Steve being nerfed, capt isn't some op dude he's a super soilder above street tier, his strength is appropriately scaled.
Okay you claim to have seen this movie like 800 times, yet you never realized Cap's "what we lost" line is referring to the modern world being more morally ambiguous than the one he remembers? Or that everyone in the room when Cap and Tony are arguing is being manipulated by the Mind Stone? The odd camera angles during that scene are practically screaming this.
He just didn’t hear the “what” part. I didn’t understand it either. I heard “the world doesn’t understand we lost” not “what we lost” I only now hear it after reading your comment.
@@Birdlegs14 I heard it all 6 times I watched the movie. My 70 year old mom with horrible hearing just watched it last year, heard it and understood its meaning.
I can understand not hearing it the first 100 times. But the other 700 is on him lol
Thank you
@@DraztikMeasurez I’m gonna call bs on that part about your 70 year old Mom hearing it. Post it to UA-cam or it didn’t happen
@@alphacraig2001 Why? Why wouldn't their mom be able to hear it?
1:32 “I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, and they say that we won - they didn’t say WHAT we lost”
The idea is that the sacrifices made to win, seem insignificant to most people. It plays into the theme of sacrifice later in the movie (His argument with Tony, then Tony “making the sacrifice play” later in the movie.)
Honestly it’s one of my favorite lines of his in the movie
I just commented basically the same thing, im honestly surprised at how he didnt notice that was the line.
Yeah it was pretty easy to hear that I don’t know how he didn’t notice that. It’s even easy to search up the script it’s literally word for word what you said he could’ve done that too 😭😭
I always thought about Hiroshima, Normandy, Vietnam and the reputation of USA
From biggest growing world leader to most hated by world (but for some reason everybody wants to live in he usa🤣🤣🤣🤣)
Bro saw this film “about 800 times” and never caught the line correctly lmao
A lot of Cap's disdain for Iron Man and their argument was orchestrated by Loki using the mind stone to influence all of the Avengers to go at one another. That's why Cap and the rest of the Avengers did and said things that were uncharacteristic of them at that time.
I love all these MCU fanboys being so offended by this video. You guys are what’s wrong with the movie industry. A bunch of sheep buying tickets to these half assed “films”
I know but that doesn't make you right. Weadon messed up alot
Even if that's true, and literally none of that bickering would have occurred without some outside manipulation, it still doesn't work as an explanation unless you actually take the time to explain that at some point. The only visual or dialogue indication we get is that Banner in particular might be influenced somehow. And even then, it's kind of a weak plot point, given that Loki wasn't actually in possession of either the scepter or the stone inside it at the time. With the exception of this moment, maybe, we've seen zero indication at any point in the franchise that an Infinity Stone can be remotely controlled.
So, no criticism of you meant for bringing it up or anything, but that explanation just doesn't work from a writing perspective. Maybe a rationale was envisioned for everybody acting petty and argumentative, but if all we see is the action, that's really all we can judge.
@@mikeroylance289 They made it clear it was Loki's staff doing it. Everyone who watched the movie knew what was going on, didn't they?
@@mikeroylance289 what everyone else said. They enter the scene upside down with the focus being the scepter as it glows, then the camera flips upright to then show the avengers arguing. I suggest revisiting the film.
The "didn't tell me what we lost" line is not that odd when you take into account Steve is entering a new world eager to trade freedoms for security. This is really highlighted in winter soldier with his views on the gun ships.
The conmment about Cap saying, "Put on the suit, let's go a few rounds" is totally missing the mark. The Infinity Stone within Lokis weapon is causing dissent amongst those close by. It's a spell of possibly another effect, but clearly the ringing tone indicates something is attempting to instigate all those assembled. Remember what happens soon after? Infighting, triggered by setting off the Hulk...all perpetrated by Loki. Cap is being controlled or manipulated into exhibiting hostility unbefitting his morals.
Exactly this video is just a hate critic .
Not to mention the camera work, turning upside down while on the scepter, blatantly making a statement that its the stone.
they could still write cap more mature than this.
@@razmwhow
That's interpretation and speculation, the scepter was never shown causing mind manipulation without someone wielding it.
I feel like Tony and Cap not being friends at the start made sense, not from caps side, I’d expect he’d have some respect for the son of Howard, but from Tony’s side, it was stated that Howard always talked about cap, which would likely fuel Tony’s whole daddy issues towards cap.
It makes sense for Cap to hate Tony too. From the outside looking in, Tony seems like a reckless ahole who likes blowing things up. Cap doesn't know that he's actually a standup guy who is willing to make sacrifices in order to save others.
This is a stretch. Cap isn’t dumb, he’s been dead for years.
So...you just ignore all the times he's cool in the movie? His shield blocking mjolnir, for example? Or his awesome response to Black Widow's "gods" line?
Also...those times, like that one, that someone tries to talk Cap out of going into a fight, are there to make him look good! It shows that even though he's not a match for someone like Thor or the Hulk, he just goes in anyway. That is the essence of Captain America.
Yea totally that God line of his is interesting because whedon is an atheist and he still wrote that response so I wouldn't say he has no respect for captain america he easilly could have had cap say something like I got to try ma'am
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson my point is he showed the character respect when he put that line there since it went against his personal beliefs. He could have put another response instead but he used one that added a layer to the character even if he felt uncomfortable with it. On the commentary he said that people asked if he's an atheist why did he write that line he just said he is one but cap isn't. I thought that was a very fair mindset.
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson no problem
@@jacobwest7 that's awesome to hear. It was a great line that fit the character. Some of the best writers can write characters that have completely different views from them without disrespecting them or their views.
personally cap's line of "there's only one god ma'am and im pretty sure he doesn't dress like that" felt like the writer's talking down to the audience because in cannon Thor is a god by earth standards, so it feels like he's saying something that's blatently wrong in lore, because "hey guys look religion's dumb"
What we lost since WW2? Trust in the government. Trust in other people. Moral certainty. Working together for positive change. That sort of stuff. I thought it was a good line.
me too it was a very good line
Lol, the "call it" line is basically Tony acknowledging Steve as the real leader of the group, how did you miss that😂
literally
Probably the best example of arguing in bad faith.
yeah i really dont like this video
what we “lost” according to Cap is that we sacrificed our freedoms for security as revealed in Winter soldier. a lot of real world implications right there 🤯
I feel like his power level was at a pretty good point, Captain America is superhuman, but Loki is well beyond that. We see Loki brush off bullets like they are nothing, in spite of that he manages to put up a pretty good fight.
This is one of the most impressive misunderstandings of a film and a character arc I’ve ever seen…
nah
@@braedenalberti Great Comeback 👍😁
@@braedenalberti it is tho
Explain so this guy can understand
@@cosmicspacething3474 Unfortunately, I think an entire essay would receive the same response.
Umm...Joss is a tool, but he was VERY good to Captain America 🇺🇸 in AVENGERS 1. Cap is is the most resoundingly good character in the whole movie and in it is established Why he is also WORTHY of the power of Thor for which we get as one of tge few good payoffs in Endgame.
I think you are just a bit misguided as to the intent of the scenes you're examining. Please know, Cap really can do this all day.
I think people have gotten so used to Joss sucking and the MCU becoming awful that they forget the first Avengers films was extremely good
OK? Argue your points. Explain how his inteperatations of those scenes are wrong. Instead of just saying they are.
Is he worthy because he picks a fight with Tony because his feelings got hurt?
Or because he lost every single fight and needed help constantly?
1:44 They lost people. Certain freedoms. Certain lifstyles. Certain ideologies. Could be anything. It's not that hard to work out.
4:00 No. Stark has zero respect for cap. This is explained in further movies. Stark's distain for Cap in Avengers is because his father wouldn't ever shut up about him. His father idolized Cap, whilst treating his own son like dirt. It's daddy-issues and jealousy. That's why
Some things you misunderstood, like many in the comments pointed out, like the “we lost” line and the fact that the stone was making the team more hostile. Though I do agree that this film didn’t fully do him justice, they could have displayed his strength and leadership skills far better. Glad that later films did him more justice in that regard, that helicopter scene in Winter Solider is great or that scene in Endgame where he’s about to face Thanos and his army alone, a nice nod to Infinity Gauntlet.
-he was being mind controlled while the "few rounds" part.
-you want to make the statement that in the meet up part, he is treated as weak, but he literally blocks a hit from the magic weapon of a god, being one of the most iconic shots of the movie and of course you cut that part.
-when he loses you say "he is presented as weak" when he beats a bunch of super aliens you say he is "showing off" yeah.
-saying that he is somehow treated like less of an authority because stark told him that basically they are waiting for orders is just ridiculous, totally missing the point of tony going from disrespecting him to respecting his orders.
Honestly maybe 30% of the points given in this video are valid maybe(? but yeah most of it just comes off as you cherrypicking stuff after you alredy decided that cap is treated bad in this movie and you just wanna reinforce that thought, while in reality you are forcing that narrative too much
Imagine saying Captain America is weak and the scene you choose to showcase this is Loki manipulating Thor to beat Iron Man with Mjolnir and Cap freediving out of a moving plane and blocking Thor's hammer, immediately mediating the fight and establishing himself as leader.
I think the thing about losing the war was more about how the modern world is complete shit - how we abandoned everything that made us great we abandoned the American values and culture that he was fighting to protect - which is true, our culture has been going to shit since the 1960s and it really sped up the shit show in the 2010s.
Hiroshima Nagasaki
@@aaronnavidad539 Worth it - saved far more lives than it killed, an invasion of Japan would have been a bloody nightmare
@@TH3DUDE0075 Have to agree on that one. I watched a vid about what an invasion would have probably been like, we might have won, but like you said it would have been a blood bath for both sides, landing troops would be dangerous and cost American lives while the Japanese seemed prepared to fight to the bitter end, even civvies. The reason they surrendered when we dropped the bombs was cause they had barely any defense against that type of weapon, and why bother wasting more lives in more bombings, least with the invasion they'd go down honorably fighting to the end.
Steve knows there are both good consequences and bad consequences after every war. He was told the good consequences but didn’t know all the bad consequences yet.
@@TH3DUDE0075 Japan gave up due to their losses against the Soviets not because of the nukes
3:50 the reason cap and Tony kept arguing was because of the influence of the mind stone when they are in its proximity
was looking for some one saying this its clearly shown in the movie as well
Mauler, We need you now more than ever!
Between this and your Hulk video, I feel your readings of these characters are one note. Especially Cap.
His arc in this movie is about how he feels useless and purposeless in the present. He dislikes Iron Man at first because of his lack of respect and how, on some level, he confirms Cap's insecurities. That's what leads to their argument, along with Loki's magic playing with their heads. The point is that Cap's insecurities are making him act out of character, that he's losing sight of what's important for the sake of nursing his bruised ego.
But later, Cap comes to his senses and, in New York, he proves his usefulness by being the courageous leader to rally everyone together and give the orders, be it to the heroes or the cops.
And no, Iron Man saying "call it, Captain" is NOT Iron Man giving an order to Cap. It's a moment that shows Iron Man's growth too, because throughout the film he's been taking control of every situation, making everything about him. Here, we're seeing an Iron Man willing to delegate and take orders from someone else.
As for Captain America's power level, I guess you have a point, although him standing toe-to-toe with aliens I would argue shows his toughness pretty well. The action could be better choreographed, but it gets the job done.
you should make a video, ripping apart my videos about ripping apart marvel videos
@@braedenalberti 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@braedenalberti he should
The Loki magic is the weakest arguments presented as to how they are acting in this film to be truthfully honest.
@@UnifiedEntity Whether you accept it or not, that's pretty much what happened. The whole reason Loki allowed himself to be captured was to use the scepter (Mind Stone) to trigger Banner's transformation into the Hulk, which it eventually did. But the scepter was affecting everyone in the room, making them all act more irrational and aggressive than normal. The weird camera angles during that scene clearly imply this.
OK Joss doesn't hate cap...the dude who made this video does..He also has no concept of difference of Caps power set as apposed to a guy who has a suit a God or a rage monster. Clueless
He's right about Cap not being able to knock out random human soldiers
this whole video seems like a reach
I'm pretty sure captain america is saying "they didn't say 'what' we lost," as in they didn't say what it cost to win.
Yeah, Steve went into the ice before Hiroshima & Nagasaki. He also missed out on the atrocities of the Cold War, which itself was a result of WW2.
I feel like the line "they didn't say what we've lost" was a reference to 9/11 and the Patriot Act.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this take. I think you saw a few things in this and viewed everything else through the lense that it probably was meant to suck. Instead of seeing the awesome moments for what they were.
Like for example:
-The fact that captain America was fighting loki despite the power difference
-blocking Mjlnior
-the fact that Captain America did destroy some of the chitari
-Captain America was organizing most of the shots despite being beat down over and over again.
In summary I don't find your argument strong enough say that Cap looked pathetic in this movie
He really doesn’t do anything cool js.
@@codycray8461
Mf did u even watch the movie or do u expect every dude to be on pars with gods.
@@succboah2000 nigga he’s trash in the first movie. I’ve seen every marvel movie to date. Compared to his later feats he’s ass, garbage, trash, sucky, doo doo.
@@succboah2000 clearly u didn't listen 👂
Why was he struggling with 3 henchmen.... While everyone was mopping the floor with him
Twice
@@xanacary2071
Clearly you didn’t read the previous dudes comment. He says he doesn’t do anything cool despite being a dude who’s in peak human psychic and manages to have one of the greatest feats in the MCU.
Broski is expecting Captain America to fight god on day one
Your points man... some of it's either nitpicky or just straight up misleading
I actually like the design of Cap's first modern suit. I thin it works because it' kind of cheesy and impractical looking, we do later on see him use more detailed and practical suits.
It looks more like pajamas than a super hero suit
Captain Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
I think you forgot that Loki's staff was influencing them. Cap's great and all, but he's still a guy and remember, he came from an era where men could settle things in a fist fight. "I can do this all day" scene. You're right about the Stark love, though. Whedon loves Tony Stark. But it's Captain who bonds with Coulsen and the other teammates. He ignores the Hulk to respect Banner and Tony tries to ignite the Hulk while miles in the air.
And I would even say that it adds to character, since he looks more human for being angry at times (even if it's with the stone help) and not 100% calm person
While I do think Joss Whedon hates Captain America, it doesn’t show in this movie. Cap is still very pivotal, and let’s not forget, there’s a massive deleted scene prior to the gym scene that shows him going about his day in the modern world (including the blonde-haired woman he saved later meeting and trying to flirt with him). It’s Age of Ultron where Whedon’s distaste for Cap (and all of his other worst qualities) really becomes apparent.
There’s definitely a power scaling problem in the MCU. Seems like falling is The Avenger’s top OPP.
Those ten dollars scene
Was about a bet he and Nick fury did
It's not about him being dumb
"Classic comic book fan" doesn't know that Iron Man and Loki are way over Cap level, even when the serum grants him super strength.
I'm sure this guy watched Avengers 800 times but it's clear he never paid attention to it ONCE.
This is a troll right?
"WE can do this all day." I think I just cringed out of my fucking spine.
No one ever thought about this till you made this video you have to have three eyes 😂😂😂
Ok
i hate this recent revisionism of Joss Whedon with this nonsense arguments just to try to shit on him, he literally started the real success of the mcu with this movie that is freakin' awesome too, this movie was a near impossible task because it was a new type of project but he succeeded so much, even beyond the expectations and everyone loved it when it came out, the fact that he made mediocre/bad stuff after or because he's probably an asshole as a person doesn't make his good stuff bad, and not just this movie, he made like 3 cult tv series too, just leave him alone.
Oh stop pushing that lie that the avengers was a near impossible task.
The avengers is no different than Any large cast film. A bad guy got himself a magic rock to portal to bring an army to take over the world. A group of individuals Come together to stop him.
Take away the novelty and the hype the film ages terribly.
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 im sorry thats a dumb simplification, its like a comic book crossover that ends a production phase but done at the cinema, that put together a vastly different range of characters and they worked, before this movie every character except hawkeye and Black widow got a solo movie, iron man got 2 movies, yeah it was a new type of project never done before and its not aged at all
@@ironbaysqiureg4827
Cool reductionist take, darling.
@@Spillow-C
The feller seems to have a hard-on for being a detractor of this film, judging from his few vapid statements here on the comments so far.
@@Mj0Skyver so he must be Snyder bot, got it
1:30 I disagree with you here. It's clear he's talking about WWII. Steve says "they say we won; they didn't say what we lost" and then you go "Is it WW2? But we won that." Yeah, the Allies won the war. But we also lost things along the way. The American way of life changed post-war. Certain rights that people had pre-war were gone post-war. Hell, look at things people could do pre-9/11 vs. after. It's not up to the MCU to explain real world history that isn't tied into MCU specific lore.
Dude, you really always forget about the mind stone effect during the room scene
These videos are great. It's immensely entertaining listening to you just disassemble these movies. I didn't notice most of the stuff you mention, but you're totally right.
Cap is a man so out of touch with the current world, sometimes he seems dum for not getting it, and worse he seems like a mere mortal compared to his colleagues and enemy he is facing. Thats not josh hating cap, thats the reality for cap. But cap being cap he doesn’t pack up his shield and just have an early retirement . He goes in to give it the best his got even though sometimes its futile. But thats cap. He can do that all day, and sometimes it might take him all day😅.
I love this video, but I always thought the line Cap says at 1:40 about "what we lost" was in reference to all the people who fought and/or died during WW2. Like how they were forgotten along with their sacrifices, Bucky being one of them of course.
Russos did Cap justice in my eyes because they highlighted his determination, as shown in Endgame, when he stands up against Thanos alone, even when his shield is damaged, and his body is bloodied. A true warrior
Let me save y’all thirteen minutes: he’s an Ironman simp, and he’s salty about Captain. AmERicA being the face of the team
I mean he’s not wrong for the most part
Only two films that I liked Cap at were at Winter Soldier and IW
Just found your channel & your detailed breakdowns are just 😵 undiscovered ( for now ) talent 🙌 next up DCEU characters 🙏
You miss-heard. He said they didn’t say what we lost.
Iron Man DID NOT order Cap to give the orders... He is literally acknowledging that Cap is the best equipped to make the tactical call, finally showing Cap that he respects him. That being said, I do agree that Avengers 1 severely underutilized him. The Russo brothers fixed it and he quickly became the fan favorite.
I just rewatched this movie, and other than a lack of power creep, Cap wasn’t ruined in this film. He is much more underwhelming in Age of Ultron for me.
10:38 “WE can do this all day”
Ain’t no way you just said that 💀💀💀💀
The reason cap was arguing with tony in Avengers 1, and resorted to physical threats was because of Loki's sceptre. It was messing with everyone, that was the point.
How come the sceptre doesn't do this in Age of Ultron?
The call it cap line was Tony giving up his ego and allowing the far better voice lead the team this video is so bizzare
You know, I wanted OG MCU to have a special place in my heart but then I got your channel
I really can see how Cap was somehow diminish in this film, but at the same time in the next films I think he was better worked, like in the Winter Soldier, Civil War and Infinity War...
But, these movies was not Josh Wheadon directing, so...
Anyway, the sad part is that we probably never will see a good representation of the character anymore, because Disney/Marvel hates all that makes Cap's the leader and hero which we all like, and just use now the "mantle" to push any agenda they want...
I think I remember being 10 years old and seeing Avengers and being confused the movie didn't pick up right where the post credits scene of Captain America The First Avenger left off and show us Steve Rogers' reaction to a world way different than the one he was in before he got frozen in ice...was disappointed we didn't get to see much of that.
That thumbnail funny af lol
He said “they didn’t say WHAT we lost”
The what is really quiet
When cap says we lost I think he means we lost because there is still war, from what I remember people thought that world war 2 would be the war to end all wars and after it there would be no war so him seeing that there is more war means that we lost
TLDR: he thinks all the fighting was in vein bc even after WW2 war still happened
No it’s cuz the nukes they lost their morality
Bro that line about what they lost was actually great. When he says "they said we won, they didn't say what we lost", Steve is referring to the sacrifices he and his fellow soldiers made on the battlefield, leaving behind their loved ones, in some cases losing limbs or quality of life or a chance at a future, and the ways that the world had to compromise and change in order to succeed. Hell, the US had to temporarily ally with the USSR to win World War 2, we had to invent and then utilize nuclear armaments to win World War 2. You could literally take Steve's statement as a face-value remark about Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and ignore all other nuance and meaning and it would still be a perfect line.
The movies seem to prop up Tony so much. Winter Soldier remains the best Cap we ever got aside from his entrance in IW.
I live in the USA and I don’t remember a few of those scenes. Is the movie longer/different around the world?
01:46 I think he's saying, if im not wrong, that America had lost it's values. Compare the 50s to now. Crime's through the roof, you need two parents working to support a small family, the housing market is insane, etc... Someone told me that they voted for trump because they saw "making american great again" as being able to support a big family on one income AND being able to buy a house.
03:02 He IS a small fish in a large pond. He cant throw down with Loki, that would make Loki look weak af. Loki only surrendered when he got knocked down from Iron man then Iron man pulled EVERY WEAPON he had and targeted Loki.
Captain America doesnt fight because he'll win. He'll fight because he can, because it's right and because he'll never stop. His "hero power" isnt the super soldier steroids, it's his heart and determination.
Loki was turning them against each other using the sceptre. This is shown and stated (that Loki's plan is to release the hulk)
Captain America stopped the grenade from taking out the propeller! He saved the ship with that! He couldnt understand starks technical instructions which is totally reasonable.
07:45 That scene was perfect. It showed the police not knowing what was going on, captain taking charge of the situation, them asking what authority do you have? then he takes down multiple aliens with ease demonstrating he's highly capable, then the policeman immediately follows the orders. it's funny and it shows his skill.
09:55 The bomb was meant to be dropped down into the crowd, instead it just blew up on the top floor; saving the people's lives
To be fair, during the first Avengers movie, when Cap challenged Tony to "put on the suit" and go a few rounds, he like everyone else in the room was under the influence of the mind stone. They were all acting pretty wonky in that scene ...
I don't think it was the mind stole.
Your points are valid, I understand Cap is a massive fan favorite and people's responses are rather defensive. Even though all the things you pointed out don't bother me when I watch this movie, it is rather weird how weak Cap looks in some of these scenes. Struggling against namless goons is definitely something they fixed about him as the MCU progressed. Already in Winter Soldier he takes out a dozen men in an elevator
Yeah and they had some high tech magnetic hand cuffs and tasers.
What your ignoring is thatvhe was fighting aliens...not humans humans he handles just fine especially hand to hand, but with modern guns which was the fight on the helicarrier....ehhhh its to be expected
The only reason he struggled there is because he was forced to stay in one exposed spot that wasn’t close to the enemies while they had ranged weapons and he did not. While on a crashing helicarrier. He was at just about every disadvantage imaginable in that one situation
You make a lot of good points. The characters are only as smart as the writers. I think his fish out of water story was only really used it for humor. Definitely should have shown how he reacted to the strange new world around him. Thor went through something similar in his first movie, but it was in service to his arc with a few jokes here and there. I think the show Avengers: Earth's mightiest heroes was able to make him have a good relationship with Tony Stark, while still being at odds with him because they had such different views on the world. I miss when Marvel had a unique identity, and treated their characters with respect. Now Marvel is just the MCU.
Not any good point yall agree with everything
@@thatomanaka323 actually I don't, but you wouldn't know that by generalizing an entire group of people. It's not good to generalize.
And the viewers are only as smart as the viewers. This was a baffling misread of the films, he didn't make good points, he twisted everything that happened to fit his conclusion.
he didnt make a single good point. All his points were bafflingly stupid, or straight up lying to try and make his point.
This is the worst case of, start with a conclusion and try your hardest to twist reality to fit it I've ever seen
@@redbearington3345 exactly
3:37 You're absolutely right, you can tell the difference between how Whedon directed and the Russos directed how Cap was favored. It was frustrating to watch Whedon put him down in favor of other characters he wanted to highlight. There was enough movie for everyone to have gotten some shine
how did he put him down? Cap fights a god and then is the one giving orders by the end of the movie. Cap appears weak in avengers because he just is supersoldiers like him are low-tier outside of street-level and Russo cap is clearly shown as weaker then IronMan by far. Cap is usually the underdog because it's his character to always pick the biggest threat or have you not seen First Avenger? When Steve was a wimp he picked fights he could win and then when he became a supersoldier he kept picking fights he couldn't win i.e his character didn't change at all he's still a wimp getting beat down except now it's by gods like Loki or Thanos. his best trait was always that he would fight no matter what for what he believed was right. In Avengers steve being a supersoldier is meant to be insignificant because thats not what he brings to the team they don't need a lowtier strong man they already have IronMan and Hulk and a literal god, what Steve offers is leadership, inspiration, and a moral compass.
I love your commentary!! Your videos are amazing. I did an analysis of Black Panther from the point of view from a therapist. I had a lot of gripes with that character and I would love you to do a video on him!
Can you do one of these videos on Thor as well?
Also I always interpreted tony saying call it cap as his version of saying “ cap how should we do this “ more than ordering him to come up with a strategy.
This comes off like your diggin for things to dislike.. the scene where he’s threatening Stark the entire room was being influenced by the stone, they were all set trippin with each other.
& lastly I think you’re missing the entire point of his arch in the movie he’s literally fresh outta being on ice for 70 years.. a literal fish out of water.
You are terrible at describing what has happened in a movie and even worse at making conclusions about has been portrayed.
Tony did not come out on top of those arguments he was wrong Captain America is a legend it’s not what’s in the bottle it’s what’s in the person and Tony is just a man and a iron suit we’ve seen that in Iron Man three. Besides, Captain America is more of a man than Iron Man is. They were both right and then later movies we do see how self-centered Tony’s he cares more about his own Eagles and protecting the world that’s why Civil War started.
This movie was lit. Capt just came back after being frozen. He’s in a whole new world in a whole new league. And yes they won the war but he lost a lot of his friends. The soldiers are the only ones who suffer from war because to us it’s just numbers and win or lose. To soldiers it’s their brothers and it’s life or death. He portrayed that well. And I think this movie would suck if capt automatically gained leadership. Like nobody really knows who he is. They are taking a chance with him. There’s all these other heroes with greater power, train and experience. If capt just came and took over it would be stupid. Respect isn’t given, it’s earned. And I think he needed to lose in this new world to really become the leader he is today. This movie was great.
Keep grinding and keep making super hero videos you’ll blow soon
You know Cap throws the shield at Thor and Tony to get their attention right? He's not trying to take their heads off or something. He's trying to diffuse the situation, that's why he jumped down there in the first place. Cap isn't trying to kick ass, he's trying to be a mediator because that's one of his strengths as a hero. It doesn't matter that he's not as strong as Tony, Hulk or Thor, he's a good leader and he's got an unbreaking spirit. He keeps fighting even against seemingly impossible odds, that's why Tony's wrong when he says 'everything special about you came out of a bottle' because, it's just not true. What makes Cap special is his heart and willingness to stand up against bullies. It doesn't matter if they're the god of mischief, a crazy robot man or space aliens. It doesn't matter if he's outnumbered or fighting alongside friends, he'll still keep fighting no matter what. That's why we find him admirable.
Oh and by the way, just because the Allies won WWII doesn't mean that the world's all peachy. America lost a lot of freedoms after that war and a lot of really bad things continued to happen later down the line. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, the cold war, 9/11. I think Cap has every right to be upset about 'what we lost'.
Cap just woke up from a 40 year nap
1:55 he means they lost because nobody technically wins a war because of the amount of people who died and suffered they lost those people
This video should be titled "Joss Whedon hates Captain America in the Avengers"
6:55 gotta disagree there. As of the start of the movie it's clear Cap has been basically in hiding to adjust to the modern world. I don't think anyone would recognize him yet as being THE captain america back from the dead.
Like, if I was a cop stuck in a warzone like that, and some dude looking like an Abe Lincoln cosplayer runs up and starta giving me orders like he thinks he's the actual fucking president, I'm gonna question it.
For the record this movie was actually not wrong captain in the avengers movie was all of what you stated because he just re awakend , he did not learn any of the fighting styles he learned later on yet , he was still learning , that scene where he flew out the window and was sad after wasn't him being embarrassed, it was him wondering what he's doing among these super powered gods and humans fighting something extra terrestrial
"I wake up and they say we won. They didn't say what we lost." He says this line because for Cap, he didn't get any time to celebrate winning the war or mourning the losses of loved ones. He wakes up and all of it is over. Including the mourning.
You mean to say, he’s fresh out of the ice, super rusty at everything and then he gets character development along the line ???? Your entire gripe was that he wasn’t perfect from the start lmfao. It’s amazing to see him be this shit in avengers, and ending up with him being a confident leader of the Avengers against Thanos in End Game.
Love it.. keep it up bud 😂🤙
If ur wondering wut cap said to Nick Fury "They say we won the war, they didn't say wut we lost" Well from my perspective Steve was talking about the soldiers that was lost in the war and the families of said soldiers but that's my assumption.
When cap says when I came back they said we won but they didn't tell me what we lost he is talking about freedom
you realize that the mind stone was effecting all of the people in that room when they were arguing right?
Definitely nitpicking on the “call it cap”. I’m the leader type and when I’m on a team with another leader type, usually one of us has to let the other know, who’s following who’s lead. Iron man is the second leader of the avengers. He’s letting cap know and the rest of the team, we’re listening. It’s respect. Especially since cap isn’t the strongest.
This is a guy that had character development in his ark too . but when the avengers started they defrost him and he is getting around in the world again . But in other avengers movies he did put up decent fights and he did give Thanos a little bit of a run for his money and endgame !
This has gotta be the most bizarre twisted interpretation of what happens in the film I've ever seen. How do you actually watch the movie and come out thinking this??
Your take on this movie shows me you didn't understand the material. I haven't finished the whole thing yet but you were wrong about when Captain America was arguing with Iron Man he didn't come across as immature for wanting to scrap with Tony they were all out of character and they were all exceptionally aggressive due to the fact that they were standing next to the scepter the scepter was compromising their minds. Also the line about when steve said they said "we won the war but they didn't say what we lost" steve was talking about what America had to give up or sacrifice or compromise in order to win it wasn't just a clean win whether it was physically or morally we lost something Steve is famous for saying that they never trade lives so even one death on the American side was a loss for Captain America.. it's like a comic book with the MCU you have to look deeper and read between the lines on the page a lot of times there's fans who miss out on character development or a character's personality because of the action surrounding it. Read between the lines
Well, I always thought of the mind stone as an enabler. It's just bringing what they already thought to the surface, giving them the nudge to say their thoughts out loud. And who wouldn't want to punch Tony in the face at this point? He's an asshole, he says things that make people mad, lol. I'd wanna punch him too if he was constantly ragging on me for no reason.
And the "we won and lost the war" line could have been written more clearly. Why couldnt he just say that outright? Why'd he have to be ambiguous? Steve isn't an ambiguous guy, he usually just says what's on his mind. It's a movie, not a comic, you often can't include as many moments to "read between the lines" when you have time constraints and the like.
So how is it that Captain America, who could fight the Hulk physically without the aid of technology or super power or whatnot, look like a clown in this movie? Have you seen what Captain America could do in his own solo movie? Or like the guy said, have you seen the disrespect thrown at Cap? The most famous hero in America? Sorry, but just like the Hulk, they both drew the short end of the stick.
I don't think it even takes reading between the lines
The ‘didn't say what we lost’ line's pretty clear imo.
I do think there are other valid criticisms in here though
@@cttommy73 since when could captin America go 1 v1 with the hulk, comics don't count here
@@cttommy73 Cap can’t 1v1 the hulk, and he never looked like a clown in this movie
This video should say "I hate Captain America" instead of "Joss Whedon Hates Captain America"
by this logic his next video can be like "heroes who fails and struggles to reach their goals sucks, so why captain marvel is the best hero ever?" or "Netflix's Daredevil sucks because he got beat too much times and he's always sad"
I hate him too, he's not racist enough
This was a dumb comment delete it
Shit. Well, thanks for saving me 13 minutes, anyway.
Thank you. Cap is my favorite of the Avengers and he was the worst thing about this movie. Joss Wheadon turned him into a punchline.
Based Words
The scene where cap makes "physical threats" is because mind stone. Granted its never done. Ever. Again. But its there. Plus everyone in the room is affected. Even banner
i think that line was meant to say that he learned about all the wars that followed. maybe Steve thought WW2 was the "war to end them all", but humanity just kept on killing one another anyway.