I wish you had given a point to charlotte commenting on how releasing the balloons was really bad for the enviornment, showing how she has changed but bojack hasnt
Even if Penny was of legal age, it’s still be messed up of Bojack because he’s basically using her to make himself feel better because he got rejected.
I bet that even if Penny had turned 18 and was a legal adult, Charlotte would still be very upset over the 50+ year old Bojack trying to sleep with her daughter.
Putting aside legality, she’s clearly not ready emotionally or mentally for a relationship with someone so much older than her. Throughout most of her scenes she’s portrayed as having the mind of a high schooler. When she messes up while driving her first reaction is “please don’t tell my parents!” She swears at her parents while fuming that she’s not upset in the most teenage way possible. She goes along with whatever Bojack suggests even when it feels off because she thinks he’s cool. And Bojack knows this because he’s been hanging around with her and her family for months.
It’s also a maturity gap. It’s okay for an 18 and 20 year old to sleep together, but even someone of legal drinking age sleeping with someone who’s 40+ will inevitably turn some heads and quirk some brows, for good reason. It feels predatory (cause it usually is so predatory).
This is what broke my heart the most about this episode. Penny actually wanted Bojack and because she treated her "as a grown up" thought he wanted her too. But all she was to him was a consolation prise because he couldnt have her MARRIED mom.
This is the only Bojack episode that I can't bring myself to rewatch when I go through the series again. It's so effective that I still find myself hoping that he won't make the decision he makes even though I know damn well it won't change
I remember sitting there during this episode going "no. No. Don't fucking do it." Followed by the reveal and an extremely tired "god fucking damn it, bojack..." Needless to say, I've never had a reaction like that to a show/its character(s) before. This one is truly something special.
Worse, I think he was bankrupted more by a lawsuit by a company pissed by a statement he made than by the 17 minutes thing settlement to Sarah Lynn’s “family”. Dude doesn’t even go to prison for the 17 minutes, he goes for breaking and entering.
@@justanotheronlineobserver3387Yh from memory he wouldve been able to keep his house and still have some wealth after the Sarah Lynn settlement. He went broke bc he passingly mentioned Xerox in his second interview, so they sued him for god knows what. Crazy after all the horrible things he did and all the lives he scarred, he “faced justice” because he indirectly made a mega corp look bad
@@TheAllSeeingEye2468 Thats kinda what the episode wants you to think till season 6 when we learn the truth that Bojack used Sahras phone to call him then waited 17 minutes till calling the ambulance. Its stated she might have made it if he didn't waste time making sure he wasn't connected to her death!
The thing about turquoise was about the stone. It's important to the indigenous people around there, so naturally there's a weird sort of cult around it in the southwest. Like, tourists buy it and when some people want to feel "connected" with New Mexico, they'll wear a bunch of turquoise jewelry. Any shop selling gifts or knickknacks has a lot of it, so, "they'll find it." And if I may? Gila (pronounced heel-ah) or Gila monster is a type of lizard that lives in the southwest. It's an animal joke. That's why there's a lizard on the sign. They're venomous, so don't get bit by one! You'll feel kinda bad for a while, sort of like you drank too much tequila. Ok, now I'm probably digging too deep, the joke is probably more surface level than that.
Oh, I just commented the same thing about the Gila Monster cause I didn’t see the second part of yours. Your explanation about Turquoise both makes sense and is sad.
Ah I see- saw the lizard as well on research but assumed they went for the state park pun. Thanks so much for helping out! Always appreciate learning more about this show and discussing it!
"Escape From L.A." is one of my favorite episodes of the Bojack series, Especially in terms of episodes that are considered "Bojack's biggest screw ups" I mean after all, To this day the Charlotte and Penny situation is one of the most debated moments in the Bojack fandom. In fact. Every time I see the part where Penny talks about 17 being the age of consent in the state of New Mexico, It makes me want to point out that, Penny didn't seem to understand that the age of consent usually applies only if you intend to do intercourse with an individual that is of the same age. But Penny was talking about having sex with someone that was literally twice her age, And it's a good thing that Charlotte walked in on them when she did. Otherwise Bojack would've been guilty of statutory rape, And Penny would've made the biggest mistake of her life in fact I often believed that the reason why Penny freaks out at both the sight and even the mere mention of Bojack's name is because she's haunted by the fact that she almost did it with Bojack and that he took advantage of her teenage naivety and pretty much groomed her into doing so. As for Charlotte. It's no secret that the only reason Bojack went to New Mexico to begin with, Was just to hook up with Charlotte and to an extent get into her pants. And the part where Bojack and Charlotte kissed while it may have been a mistake, Charlotte seems to pretend like Bojack forced her to kiss him when she actually kissed him back and she obviously liked it to an extent. But Charlotte knew that it was wrong, Because even though she had developed some minor feelings for Bojack she didn't want to give up the life and family that she built for herself so she had to reject Bojack's affections I mean I'm not saying that Charlotte is the only responsible person here, I'm just saying that Charlotte didn't want to give up everything she built all for a guy that she only knew for a few minutes 30 years ago. But sadly, Charlotte rejecting Bojack only resulted in him going by his destructive tendencies, And settling for the next best thing, IE sleeping with Penny. But in that moment, that's all Penny was to Bojack, Just a substitute for sleeping with her mother.
Thats how i saw it. He never even considered sleeping with her until he was rejected by her mom. He was just using penny bc she was the closest thing to what he really wanted. Didnt matter she wasnt legal
To everyone who keeps trying to pin the blame on Penny because she made the "first move".....WRONG! 1. Bojack made the first move when he came up with the idea to be her prom date. 2. He made his 2nd move when he decided to buy the kids alcohol when he knew they were to young to drink. 3. He made his 3rd move when he try to pressure Penny to drink it and even chastised her at the prom for not doing it. This is because the drink was ment for her. 4. He was also the one who decided to take them away from the prom to an isolated area where there weren't any other adults watching. 5. He made his next move by dancing with Penny and semi flirting with her. Giving signals you send to a grown woman. 6. He made his next move by abandoning Pete and his girlfriend at the hospital so he could be alone with Penny. Note that he confrims to pete that he knows everything he's doing is wrong. 7. Also note that bojack had lived with penny for a couple months and had been freinds with her mom for years. That time living together allowed him to learn more about her, understand how she thinks and build trust with her. He also probably was betting she might be similar to how her mom was like when she was younger. All of which he could use to manipulate her, such as using the balloons which he knew Charlotte like back then. 8. Penny dose kiss him after a long time of Bojack manipulating her, and Bojack dose rejects her but that was part of the plan. If you look up male pick up artists they will tell you to act uninterested in a women to get her to chase you. Bojack has been with way more women then Penny has been with men. So he probably understood this tactic by now. We also know he's capable of being very manipulative such as gaslighting Todd into thinking he ruined his own Rock Opera. Penny clearly was unaware of these games men play with women and was at the age where she thought a guy saying "hey" counts as a relationship. She was young, inexperienced and navie which made her the perfect target for a much older gr**mer 9. Penny approaches him again on the boat and Bojack "Rejects" her again but he LEAVES THE DOOR OPEN! sending a clear signal that he wants her to follow him. Thus proving my last point above that he was deliberately acting uninterested to get her to chase him. 10. Finally Penny was 17. Bojack was over 50. We were all idiots when we were 17. At 50 you should've grown out of that behavior by now.
Another interesting point is that the whole Kyle and The Kids theme song and the scene that follows thereafter, gives a sitcom feel which is how Bojack sees his life, nice, predetermined and wrapped up all nice and/or as escape from a reality, hes playing a part
I'm not judging the character as i say this and sorry for the long rambling: A part of me wonders if Charlotte also saw Bojack as "the road she didn't pick" in the back of her mind and that's why she kissed him, but of course once she did she realized that she didn't know him and wasn't willing to uproot her life in a leap of faith that she knew wouldn't be worth it in the slightest, maybe this view is also why she ignored a lot of things about Bojack, like how she just chuckled when telling him how she read in his book that he ended up wrestling Herb on the floor over the telescope, despite knowing Herb was in a precarious condition, the fact that she hadn't asked what Bojack was doing in New Mexico until Penny brought it up, the whole two months, how when Penny stormed off she let Bojack come with her to also give advice to Penny despite he being an stranger basically and not pushing back much about his plan for the prom, letting him take Penny to prom despite how Kyle was ready to do it. Also i'm sure Bojack did destroy the Carson family in a way, because Charlotte never told her husband about what happened (probably because she thinks it would destroy the marriage, all she worked for) and so that was partly why she was determined to discourage Penny into telling about what happened to the public.
This. I always felt the same, especially when bojack tells charlotte to tell him she’s never thought about having a life with him, and instead of giving him a straight answer she tells him to leave. Honestly imo that’s the best response to that question, because whether she did or didn’t, the fact he just expected her to run away with him after not speaking for like 30 years is insane
@@D3ad.R0ses it's like another coment in a different video said (don't remember who, i'm sorry) but it said that Bojack was so self centered that he was just expecting Charlotte to be basically frozen in time after she left, doing nothing waiting for him, just like in another video of PosiTVty pointed out Bojack mostly sees women as things that will grant him happiness one way or the other, and because of this mindset he just couldn't fathom Charlotte making something out of her life if he wasn't there. (also in my opinion i think Bojack knew she would have a life at that point and that's why he hadn't contacted her in 30 years, to keep the ilusion that she was still waiting for him, and only searched for her because of the mental state he was in at the end of 2x10, hoping she would be his ticket to happiness). This got long again, i just love talking about the show
Around 7:08 the playing with expectations here is similar to how they do it with Sarah Lynn. When BoJack calls her name in the dingy hotel room, thinking she might be dead, and the relief we feel that she isn't gives that false sense of security that things will be okay. BJ's refusal to cross that line with Penny right here lulls us into thinking he's not going to be that creeper, but then. This is the precursor to that paradigm. We have that brief hope that BoJack will be better than he is, but we see the real him when he's at his lowest. He's more than willing to use people and do the most reprehensible things to either protect himself or not feel sad/empty.
Bojack might have had a chance with Charlotte back when she was still living in L.A, but he waited 30 years too late to reconnect with her, and by then she was already settled down with a family and a happy life. Though I do wonder if they did hook up way back then if he would find some way to "Bojack things up" and she ends up breaking up with him.
Charlotte is like my favourite character from BoJack thank you for doing this. Keep up the good work because I like to do my dishes while listening to it 👏👏👏
5:49 it's so interesting how the context changes this scene sooo much. Yes it makes you cringe, but it would've been so endearing if it were two awkward teenagers trying to have their first dances with eachother after prom,but instead it is a 50 something bojack and a 17 year old penny...😭
i came across this episode while my friend was using this show as background noise (strange, i know). this moment was what entranced me, something so shocking, so dark. it was refreshing to see a protagonist in a sitcom be such a troubled person. it reminded me of the shitty people i met in my 20's, and how they just go about their day not learning or changing
5:10 the prom playing a fake Drake song and I have to feel like that was an intentional reference to older men being creepy with young girls since this behavior was actually somewhat known about before the kdot beef brought it into the spotlight but was buried cause he's famous and as long as he makes music people like (for some reason :P) controversies kinda just slid under the radar
The logo on “The Gila and Lime” shows the face of a lizard, which I think is a Gila Monster (Though the colors don’t match), a type of venomous lizard endemic to the area.
I always skip this episode because even though Penny wasn’t groomed and she got caught before things could escalate, I was her age when that shit happened to me. This episode makes me so uncomfortable that I can’t rewatch it
I like how Charlotte kisses Bojack back at first (unlike Diane) because it shows how she is battling between instant gratification and long term happiness
I'm from Santa Fe and visit Tesuque fairly frequently.... I have to say that the show kind does a poor job reflecting the actual place in its background art X'D Tesuque is so small it has no schools and had like one or two art galleries. It's green and surrounded by thick tall trees and huge mountains. It's also remote and houses are really spaced apart. It's not desert like other places of NM.
Great recap, but I would add one more thing - there's a cut screen that says "two months later" meaning that Bojack ended up staying that long. When I first watched this episode my heart sank and I knew the rest of the episode was going to be a train wreck, and I was also expecting big problems back in Hollywoo for missing film (which was a fake-out).
Kyle and the kids is so funny. Nothings gonna be alright! Be alright woaaaaah True Kyle and the kids opening titles Also i think ali Sandler is the name of one of Adam Sandlers kids? The celebrity (in this case celebs kids) references are all over you miss so many of them lmao
When Bojack returns home to Diane and her mess, I feel that he expected Diane to be better without him. I think he was seemingly surprised by the mess because he expected that without his presence Diane would be able to clean up her act and in the process, the apartment.
no the moment when charlottes friend collapses relieves the viewer by pretending to be the climax to the episode which isnt as bad as what the show was setting up
I just thought of something, this may be pure coincidence or maybe there is a subtle connection. I think 17 might be an unlucky number for BoJack. It's the number of minutes he waited before calling the paramedics to save Sarah Lynn and it's Penny's age when he...you know.
the other really cool thing is this epsidoes starts with teh "kyle and the kids" intro, much mores sitcom and almost makes you feel like youre in a differnt show. Bojacks theme and the end is bringing us back to our regulary scendualed program.. this is bojack horseman NOT a sitcome about family in new mexico.. and his consequnces dont wrap up at the end of a 30 min episode
5:02 “Gila and lime” actually seems to be a reference to the Gila monster specifically, seeing as how there is a lizard on the sign. Though, the lizard depicted appears to be an iguana and not a Gila monster. Gila monsters are native to the deserts of New Mexico.
Thank you so much for making Bojack Horseman videos. It keeps me still thinking about the show while not being able to ever wanna rewatch the show because this shit gets heavy. I don't ever wanna do that again.
love your videos! i always think i know exactly what you’re gonna say, but you always manage to put a wonderful and refreshing spin on it! crazy how many background jokes ive missed, but it makes for a good rewatch!
im not defending bojack AT ALL; but every time i re-watch this episode, i always get SO confused as to why Charlotte doesn't think "maybe i shouldn't let this old guy from my past stay in my house with my family, especially my teenage daughter" ??? She said it herself toward the end of the episode, SHE DOESN'T KNOW HIM!
Right that's honestly still confusing to me. Ofc bojack is still at fault for everything he did, but how did this strange, washed up man get away with showing up at their house and just staying there... for months??? Even if charlotte and kyle (although we do know he's already clueless to everything happening around him so he's not surprising) and the kids were fine w it, no other friends or family had anything to say? Kinda crazy parenting
I think it's pretty reletable. She knew him long time ago, he was fun and quite charming, she probably considered him a friend back there, and they definitely have chemistry. He acted nice towards her and her family plus she had absolutely no reason to expect this from him. She doesn't know him like the audience does. Another thing is her marriage. Kyle is a nice guy. He is stable, kind and a good dad, but he isn't exciting. She is battleng with herself with the kiss, bacause Bojack is interesting, a movie sta, funny and a breath of something new. Luckily for her, Charlotte is strong enough to realize this path leads nowhere and pulls away.
She really blew it there but I think I can understand what was going on in her head. I think she did consider him a real freind at one point and maybe when they were both younger she even was attracted to him too. However she likes the Bojack she remembered when she was in her 20s. Just like Bojack had built up an image in his head of her, she had an image of him set in her mind that was more positive. She remembers the younger Bojack who was still refusing to drink and was a nice funny guy that cared about all the people around him. When she saw him again 30 years later she probably got a little nostalgic for that part of her life and still saw him as that Bojack. That was the Bojack she trusted and she still wanted to believe he was that same old freind. So in a way she did love Bojack but just not as a romantic partner. More as a close old freind. When they kiss she started getting hit with the reality of the situation. She realized at that moment a lot of time had passed since then. The bojack who kissed her and was asking her to leave her family was not the same Bojack she had in her head or she once knew way back then. The Bojack standing before her was a completely different person then the one she knew in her younger days. Gone was the Bojack who was a clean good freind that she could trust and now standing before her was this toxic impulsive manipulative Bojack who wanted to destroy her family. It sinks in that their times as close freinds wasn't that long compared to how much time they were growing apart. She accpets that he's actually s stranger to her now. This is what she means when she saids "I don't Know You".
This episode is a whole “Oh fuck shit no no no” moment because we all know something nice in Bojack’s life cannot last Although I do have a thought. Is Bojack a predator? He’s harmed adult women in his life but he’s also harmed minors too. Hell he indirectly harmed a minor, Holleyhock, when Beatrice drugged her. She would not have been in that situation if Bojack took responsibility and kept an eye on her and noticed her sudden weight loss. Not only that but need I remind you of Sarah Lynn. He has sex with someone who is like 20 years younger than him. If the public cancelled him so readily when they learned about what he did to Sarah Lynn, imagine what they would have done if they heard about New Mexico I don’t think Bojack is attracted to minors, hell no, but his pattern with these young women is… concerning…
I’ve never noticed until now (probably because this episode is too good at what it’s doing and I don’t pay attention to the background) but on top of the water tower 5:39 when Penny agrees to dance with Bojack, his smile gets wider and given the context, it’s really creepy. Crazy detail and wild foreshadowing.
I first watched escape from LA as a 16 yr old stoner with no responsibilities and just thought bojack was a creep. Rewatching it now as an adult in university full time who is also working 2 jobs, he is still just a creep. U are 50, get a job and leave the teenage girl alone FREAKKKK😭
A Gila Monster is also a large desert-dwelling lizard like the one seen on the sign! I love how Kyle is this stereotypical goofball Sitcom Dad type character, which just reinforces BoJack's ongoing mindset that life is a sitcom. And in a sitcom it wouldn't be considered weird for a grown man who's not even a relative to insert himself into a family and take a teenage girl to prom. That's why the episode so successfully lured me into thinking how wholesome all this was... until the episode shattered the illusion in the most brutal way possible.
This episode killed me, I was already in a bad place when I watched this show and ive never cried so many times at a damn piece of fiction but I did, I love this show 10/10 make sure you are in a good place mentally before watching.
I know it’s a small and insignificant detail but if you look closely at Charlotte’s ring at 8:19 you can see it switches from her pinky to her ring finger which I thought was pretty funny
While I love this episode, I think it's up there with my favourite episode of all of Bojack Horseman and that it's the one when Bojack and Sarah Lynn go on a bender. That episode is peak Bojack in my opinion. I also adore episode 11 from season 1 because of its crazyness and the different animations of the sequence. I love that the animators really showed their creativity on that one.
Something about the "can't believe he's about to do this" of the situation in this episode made me remember that I've been wondering -would you by any chance consider doing an analysis on Joker 2 ? The way the symbolisms and social, media and psychology commentaries of that one fly over people's head astonish me personally. Could really use someone as emotionally intelligent and knowledgeable on dark trauma themes as you breaking it down, seeing as good you're at explaining these sorts of storytelling. It's also super interesting how the movie feels as if could have ended being made as mixed media with all the retro animation references to it.
Wow kinda easy response to the episode cause everything and every response is so already everything that we already know what happened but the the video keeps on saying a lot of things that happened that we already knew ? So what are you gunna reply to me “Mr.Positivity”(I know I didn’t spell it right but you still get what I’m saying)
I wish you had given a point to charlotte commenting on how releasing the balloons was really bad for the enviornment, showing how she has changed but bojack hasnt
I never noticed that, that's really smart
yes!! that was the line that made me so unsettled during my first watch, bojack was so insanely immature
Even if Penny was of legal age, it’s still be messed up of Bojack because he’s basically using her to make himself feel better because he got rejected.
I bet that even if Penny had turned 18 and was a legal adult, Charlotte would still be very upset over the 50+ year old Bojack trying to sleep with her daughter.
Bojack never stopped being 22. Too bad he was 52 here.
Putting aside legality, she’s clearly not ready emotionally or mentally for a relationship with someone so much older than her.
Throughout most of her scenes she’s portrayed as having the mind of a high schooler. When she messes up while driving her first reaction is “please don’t tell my parents!” She swears at her parents while fuming that she’s not upset in the most teenage way possible. She goes along with whatever Bojack suggests even when it feels off because she thinks he’s cool.
And Bojack knows this because he’s been hanging around with her and her family for months.
It’s also a maturity gap. It’s okay for an 18 and 20 year old to sleep together, but even someone of legal drinking age sleeping with someone who’s 40+ will inevitably turn some heads and quirk some brows, for good reason. It feels predatory (cause it usually is so predatory).
This is what broke my heart the most about this episode. Penny actually wanted Bojack and because she treated her "as a grown up" thought he wanted her too. But all she was to him was a consolation prise because he couldnt have her MARRIED mom.
I grew up in New Mexico! The turquoise joke is completely spot on. 😂
Same 😂
This is the only Bojack episode that I can't bring myself to rewatch when I go through the series again. It's so effective that I still find myself hoping that he won't make the decision he makes even though I know damn well it won't change
I always rewatch it, I think it’s because I have similar trauma to Penny and it makes me feel seen
I always rewatch it; it hurts my feelings for the obvious and the personal
@@Trashcan27I'm so sorry.
Exact same for me. I’m rewatching it again, and have a pre-plan to skip that.
I remember sitting there during this episode going "no. No. Don't fucking do it." Followed by the reveal and an extremely tired "god fucking damn it, bojack..."
Needless to say, I've never had a reaction like that to a show/its character(s) before. This one is truly something special.
The fact that the new Mexico thing didn't end him but waiting 17 minutes after Sarah Lynn died before calling the ambulance is what did is surprising
Worse, I think he was bankrupted more by a lawsuit by a company pissed by a statement he made than by the 17 minutes thing settlement to Sarah Lynn’s “family”.
Dude doesn’t even go to prison for the 17 minutes, he goes for breaking and entering.
Sarah Lynn died at the hospital, so he technically didn't wait after she died, he waited while she was actively dying.
@@chloelundabolt4128 I just assumed she died of a overdose at the planetarium. It looked like she did at the end of that ep
@@justanotheronlineobserver3387Yh from memory he wouldve been able to keep his house and still have some wealth after the Sarah Lynn settlement. He went broke bc he passingly mentioned Xerox in his second interview, so they sued him for god knows what. Crazy after all the horrible things he did and all the lives he scarred, he “faced justice” because he indirectly made a mega corp look bad
@@TheAllSeeingEye2468 Thats kinda what the episode wants you to think till season 6 when we learn the truth that Bojack used Sahras phone to call him then waited 17 minutes till calling the ambulance. Its stated she might have made it if he didn't waste time making sure he wasn't connected to her death!
The thing about turquoise was about the stone. It's important to the indigenous people around there, so naturally there's a weird sort of cult around it in the southwest. Like, tourists buy it and when some people want to feel "connected" with New Mexico, they'll wear a bunch of turquoise jewelry. Any shop selling gifts or knickknacks has a lot of it, so, "they'll find it."
And if I may? Gila (pronounced heel-ah) or Gila monster is a type of lizard that lives in the southwest. It's an animal joke. That's why there's a lizard on the sign. They're venomous, so don't get bit by one! You'll feel kinda bad for a while, sort of like you drank too much tequila. Ok, now I'm probably digging too deep, the joke is probably more surface level than that.
Oh, I just commented the same thing about the Gila Monster cause I didn’t see the second part of yours.
Your explanation about Turquoise both makes sense and is sad.
Ah I see- saw the lizard as well on research but assumed they went for the state park pun. Thanks so much for helping out! Always appreciate learning more about this show and discussing it!
Poor Kyle :( the heart twinge when he backed away in his pink tux.
"Escape From L.A." is one of my favorite episodes of the Bojack series, Especially in terms of episodes that are considered "Bojack's biggest screw ups"
I mean after all, To this day the Charlotte and Penny situation is one of the most debated moments in the Bojack fandom.
In fact. Every time I see the part where Penny talks about 17 being the age of consent in the state of New Mexico, It makes me want to point out that, Penny didn't seem to understand that the age of consent usually applies only if you intend to do intercourse with an individual that is of the same age.
But Penny was talking about having sex with someone that was literally twice her age, And it's a good thing that Charlotte walked in on them when she did. Otherwise Bojack would've been guilty of statutory rape, And Penny would've made the biggest mistake of her life in fact I often believed that the reason why Penny freaks out at both the sight and even the mere mention of Bojack's name is because she's haunted by the fact that she almost did it with Bojack and that he took advantage of her teenage naivety and pretty much groomed her into doing so.
As for Charlotte. It's no secret that the only reason Bojack went to New Mexico to begin with, Was just to hook up with Charlotte and to an extent get into her pants. And the part where Bojack and Charlotte kissed while it may have been a mistake, Charlotte seems to pretend like Bojack forced her to kiss him when she actually kissed him back and she obviously liked it to an extent. But Charlotte knew that it was wrong, Because even though she had developed some minor feelings for Bojack she didn't want to give up the life and family that she built for herself so she had to reject Bojack's affections I mean I'm not saying that Charlotte is the only responsible person here, I'm just saying that Charlotte didn't want to give up everything she built all for a guy that she only knew for a few minutes 30 years ago.
But sadly, Charlotte rejecting Bojack only resulted in him going by his destructive tendencies, And settling for the next best thing, IE sleeping with Penny. But in that moment, that's all Penny was to Bojack, Just a substitute for sleeping with her mother.
Thats how i saw it. He never even considered sleeping with her until he was rejected by her mom. He was just using penny bc she was the closest thing to what he really wanted. Didnt matter she wasnt legal
Tesuque/Te-stupid/to-set/Te-sued is one of my favorite jokes in the entire show
I have echolalia and this has been in my head for literal days and it’s not even annoying me it’s so good 😂
To everyone who keeps trying to pin the blame on Penny because she made the "first move".....WRONG!
1. Bojack made the first move when he came up with the idea to be her prom date.
2. He made his 2nd move when he decided to buy the kids alcohol when he knew they were to young to drink.
3. He made his 3rd move when he try to pressure Penny to drink it and even chastised her at the prom for not doing it. This is because the drink was ment for her.
4. He was also the one who decided to take them away from the prom to an isolated area where there weren't any other adults watching.
5. He made his next move by dancing with Penny and semi flirting with her. Giving signals you send to a grown woman.
6. He made his next move by abandoning Pete and his girlfriend at the hospital so he could be alone with Penny. Note that he confrims to pete that he knows everything he's doing is wrong.
7. Also note that bojack had lived with penny for a couple months and had been freinds with her mom for years. That time living together allowed him to learn more about her, understand how she thinks and build trust with her. He also probably was betting she might be similar to how her mom was like when she was younger. All of which he could use to manipulate her, such as using the balloons which he knew Charlotte like back then.
8. Penny dose kiss him after a long time of Bojack manipulating her, and Bojack dose rejects her but that was part of the plan. If you look up male pick up artists they will tell you to act uninterested in a women to get her to chase you. Bojack has been with way more women then Penny has been with men. So he probably understood this tactic by now. We also know he's capable of being very manipulative such as gaslighting Todd into thinking he ruined his own Rock Opera. Penny clearly was unaware of these games men play with women and was at the age where she thought a guy saying "hey" counts as a relationship. She was young, inexperienced and navie which made her the perfect target for a much older gr**mer
9. Penny approaches him again on the boat and Bojack "Rejects" her again but he LEAVES THE DOOR OPEN! sending a clear signal that he wants her to follow him. Thus proving my last point above that he was deliberately acting uninterested to get her to chase him.
10. Finally Penny was 17. Bojack was over 50. We were all idiots when we were 17. At 50 you should've grown out of that behavior by now.
Another interesting point is that the whole Kyle and The Kids theme song and the scene that follows thereafter, gives a sitcom feel which is how Bojack sees his life, nice, predetermined and wrapped up all nice and/or as escape from a reality, hes playing a part
I'm not judging the character as i say this and sorry for the long rambling:
A part of me wonders if Charlotte also saw Bojack as "the road she didn't pick" in the back of her mind and that's why she kissed him, but of course once she did she realized that she didn't know him and wasn't willing to uproot her life in a leap of faith that she knew wouldn't be worth it in the slightest, maybe this view is also why she ignored a lot of things about Bojack, like how she just chuckled when telling him how she read in his book that he ended up wrestling Herb on the floor over the telescope, despite knowing Herb was in a precarious condition, the fact that she hadn't asked what Bojack was doing in New Mexico until Penny brought it up, the whole two months, how when Penny stormed off she let Bojack come with her to also give advice to Penny despite he being an stranger basically and not pushing back much about his plan for the prom, letting him take Penny to prom despite how Kyle was ready to do it.
Also i'm sure Bojack did destroy the Carson family in a way, because Charlotte never told her husband about what happened (probably because she thinks it would destroy the marriage, all she worked for) and so that was partly why she was determined to discourage Penny into telling about what happened to the public.
This. I always felt the same, especially when bojack tells charlotte to tell him she’s never thought about having a life with him, and instead of giving him a straight answer she tells him to leave. Honestly imo that’s the best response to that question, because whether she did or didn’t, the fact he just expected her to run away with him after not speaking for like 30 years is insane
@@D3ad.R0ses it's like another coment in a different video said (don't remember who, i'm sorry) but it said that Bojack was so self centered that he was just expecting Charlotte to be basically frozen in time after she left, doing nothing waiting for him, just like in another video of PosiTVty pointed out Bojack mostly sees women as things that will grant him happiness one way or the other, and because of this mindset he just couldn't fathom Charlotte making something out of her life if he wasn't there. (also in my opinion i think Bojack knew she would have a life at that point and that's why he hadn't contacted her in 30 years, to keep the ilusion that she was still waiting for him, and only searched for her because of the mental state he was in at the end of 2x10, hoping she would be his ticket to happiness). This got long again, i just love talking about the show
Around 7:08 the playing with expectations here is similar to how they do it with Sarah Lynn. When BoJack calls her name in the dingy hotel room, thinking she might be dead, and the relief we feel that she isn't gives that false sense of security that things will be okay. BJ's refusal to cross that line with Penny right here lulls us into thinking he's not going to be that creeper, but then. This is the precursor to that paradigm. We have that brief hope that BoJack will be better than he is, but we see the real him when he's at his lowest. He's more than willing to use people and do the most reprehensible things to either protect himself or not feel sad/empty.
Bojack might have had a chance with Charlotte back when she was still living in L.A, but he waited 30 years too late to reconnect with her, and by then she was already settled down with a family and a happy life. Though I do wonder if they did hook up way back then if he would find some way to "Bojack things up" and she ends up breaking up with him.
In fairness, she was dating Herb until the last conversation they had before her move. Bojack didn't have much of a chance.
Charlotte is like my favourite character from BoJack thank you for doing this. Keep up the good work because I like to do my dishes while listening to it 👏👏👏
I don't know if state colors exist but turquoise is New Mexico's state gemstone 🤠
5:49 it's so interesting how the context changes this scene sooo much. Yes it makes you cringe, but it would've been so endearing if it were two awkward teenagers trying to have their first dances with eachother after prom,but instead it is a 50 something bojack and a 17 year old penny...😭
i came across this episode while my friend was using this show as background noise (strange, i know). this moment was what entranced me, something so shocking, so dark. it was refreshing to see a protagonist in a sitcom be such a troubled person. it reminded me of the shitty people i met in my 20's, and how they just go about their day not learning or changing
I love the cinemawins style review for this episode! very engaging and quick paced, but still introspective and deep
5:10 the prom playing a fake Drake song and I have to feel like that was an intentional reference to older men being creepy with young girls since this behavior was actually somewhat known about before the kdot beef brought it into the spotlight but was buried cause he's famous and as long as he makes music people like (for some reason :P) controversies kinda just slid under the radar
how funny a fake drake so g featured in an episode where bojack is questionable around a child
The logo on “The Gila and Lime” shows the face of a lizard, which I think is a Gila Monster (Though the colors don’t match), a type of venomous lizard endemic to the area.
I always skip this episode because even though Penny wasn’t groomed and she got caught before things could escalate, I was her age when that shit happened to me. This episode makes me so uncomfortable that I can’t rewatch it
I like how Charlotte kisses Bojack back at first (unlike Diane) because it shows how she is battling between instant gratification and long term happiness
I'm from Santa Fe and visit Tesuque fairly frequently.... I have to say that the show kind does a poor job reflecting the actual place in its background art X'D Tesuque is so small it has no schools and had like one or two art galleries. It's green and surrounded by thick tall trees and huge mountains. It's also remote and houses are really spaced apart. It's not desert like other places of NM.
Great recap, but I would add one more thing - there's a cut screen that says "two months later" meaning that Bojack ended up staying that long. When I first watched this episode my heart sank and I knew the rest of the episode was going to be a train wreck, and I was also expecting big problems back in Hollywoo for missing film (which was a fake-out).
BoJack Horseman is a show you need to rewatch several times, because of the number of background jokes we all missed first watch
Kyle and the kids is so funny.
Nothings gonna be alright! Be alright woaaaaah
True Kyle and the kids opening titles
Also i think ali Sandler is the name of one of Adam Sandlers kids? The celebrity (in this case celebs kids) references are all over you miss so many of them lmao
When Bojack returns home to Diane and her mess, I feel that he expected Diane to be better without him. I think he was seemingly surprised by the mess because he expected that without his presence Diane would be able to clean up her act and in the process, the apartment.
So much happens in this episode that I thought it took place over multiple until I rewatched the series.
no the moment when charlottes friend collapses relieves the viewer by pretending to be the climax to the episode which isnt as bad as what the show was setting up
I just thought of something, this may be pure coincidence or maybe there is a subtle connection. I think 17 might be an unlucky number for BoJack. It's the number of minutes he waited before calling the paramedics to save Sarah Lynn and it's Penny's age when he...you know.
Haha i wonder what wacky hijinks will occur in this episode
Oh god
Oh God!
Oh whew, Bojack didn’t do anything bad
OH FU
the other really cool thing is this epsidoes starts with teh "kyle and the kids" intro, much mores sitcom and almost makes you feel like youre in a differnt show. Bojacks theme and the end is bringing us back to our regulary scendualed program.. this is bojack horseman NOT a sitcome about family in new mexico.. and his consequnces dont wrap up at the end of a 30 min episode
5:02 “Gila and lime” actually seems to be a reference to the Gila monster specifically, seeing as how there is a lizard on the sign. Though, the lizard depicted appears to be an iguana and not a Gila monster. Gila monsters are native to the deserts of New Mexico.
Thank you so much for making Bojack Horseman videos. It keeps me still thinking about the show while not being able to ever wanna rewatch the show because this shit gets heavy. I don't ever wanna do that again.
can't believe I was 17 min late to the premiere because I was catching up on the Sarah Lynn episode 😱😭😅
Perfect harrowing number of minutes lol.
Wake up babe, new positvty video just dropped
It's played for laughs, but I really feel bad for Trip being boner-shamed by his family, as if he can help it.
love your videos! i always think i know exactly what you’re gonna say, but you always manage to put a wonderful and refreshing spin on it! crazy how many background jokes ive missed, but it makes for a good rewatch!
im not defending bojack AT ALL; but every time i re-watch this episode, i always get SO confused as to why Charlotte doesn't think "maybe i shouldn't let this old guy from my past stay in my house with my family, especially my teenage daughter" ??? She said it herself toward the end of the episode, SHE DOESN'T KNOW HIM!
Right that's honestly still confusing to me. Ofc bojack is still at fault for everything he did, but how did this strange, washed up man get away with showing up at their house and just staying there... for months??? Even if charlotte and kyle (although we do know he's already clueless to everything happening around him so he's not surprising) and the kids were fine w it, no other friends or family had anything to say? Kinda crazy parenting
@@yy-us5gy RIGHT??? like why is everyone ok with this 😭😭
I think it's pretty reletable. She knew him long time ago, he was fun and quite charming, she probably considered him a friend back there, and they definitely have chemistry. He acted nice towards her and her family plus she had absolutely no reason to expect this from him. She doesn't know him like the audience does.
Another thing is her marriage. Kyle is a nice guy. He is stable, kind and a good dad, but he isn't exciting. She is battleng with herself with the kiss, bacause Bojack is interesting, a movie sta, funny and a breath of something new. Luckily for her, Charlotte is strong enough to realize this path leads nowhere and pulls away.
She really blew it there but I think I can understand what was going on in her head.
I think she did consider him a real freind at one point and maybe when they were both younger she even was attracted to him too. However she likes the Bojack she remembered when she was in her 20s. Just like Bojack had built up an image in his head of her, she had an image of him set in her mind that was more positive. She remembers the younger Bojack who was still refusing to drink and was a nice funny guy that cared about all the people around him. When she saw him again 30 years later she probably got a little nostalgic for that part of her life and still saw him as that Bojack. That was the Bojack she trusted and she still wanted to believe he was that same old freind.
So in a way she did love Bojack but just not as a romantic partner. More as a close old freind.
When they kiss she started getting hit with the reality of the situation. She realized at that moment a lot of time had passed since then. The bojack who kissed her and was asking her to leave her family was not the same Bojack she had in her head or she once knew way back then. The Bojack standing before her was a completely different person then the one she knew in her younger days. Gone was the Bojack who was a clean good freind that she could trust and now standing before her was this toxic impulsive manipulative Bojack who wanted to destroy her family. It sinks in that their times as close freinds wasn't that long compared to how much time they were growing apart. She accpets that he's actually s stranger to her now.
This is what she means when she saids "I don't Know You".
Just for clarity I never saw Bojack getting with her, it was clearly only his fancy.
You missed the FKA Pigs pun lol
This episode is a whole “Oh fuck shit no no no” moment because we all know something nice in Bojack’s life cannot last
Although I do have a thought. Is Bojack a predator? He’s harmed adult women in his life but he’s also harmed minors too. Hell he indirectly harmed a minor, Holleyhock, when Beatrice drugged her. She would not have been in that situation if Bojack took responsibility and kept an eye on her and noticed her sudden weight loss.
Not only that but need I remind you of Sarah Lynn. He has sex with someone who is like 20 years younger than him. If the public cancelled him so readily when they learned about what he did to Sarah Lynn, imagine what they would have done if they heard about New Mexico
I don’t think Bojack is attracted to minors, hell no, but his pattern with these young women is… concerning…
i never get tired of this episode, omg
I’ve never noticed until now (probably because this episode is too good at what it’s doing and I don’t pay attention to the background) but on top of the water tower 5:39 when Penny agrees to dance with Bojack, his smile gets wider and given the context, it’s really creepy. Crazy detail and wild foreshadowing.
2:30 dude there’s i kid in the bottom corner named WILL-is WOOD-word. sounds kinda familiar 🤨
0:46 lmaooooooo they’re talking about the gemstone turquoise, not the colour 💀
I first watched escape from LA as a 16 yr old stoner with no responsibilities and just thought bojack was a creep. Rewatching it now as an adult in university full time who is also working 2 jobs, he is still just a creep. U are 50, get a job and leave the teenage girl alone FREAKKKK😭
A Gila Monster is also a large desert-dwelling lizard like the one seen on the sign! I love how Kyle is this stereotypical goofball Sitcom Dad type character, which just reinforces BoJack's ongoing mindset that life is a sitcom. And in a sitcom it wouldn't be considered weird for a grown man who's not even a relative to insert himself into a family and take a teenage girl to prom. That's why the episode so successfully lured me into thinking how wholesome all this was... until the episode shattered the illusion in the most brutal way possible.
This episode killed me, I was already in a bad place when I watched this show and ive never cried so many times at a damn piece of fiction but I did, I love this show 10/10 make sure you are in a good place mentally before watching.
New Mexico is genuinely like that. It has a very distinct culture. Also he pronounces Tesuque wrong.
As a person from New Mexico I can confirm that turquoise is the state color
Good video. please keep making these
I know it’s a small and insignificant detail but if you look closely at Charlotte’s ring at 8:19 you can see it switches from her pinky to her ring finger which I thought was pretty funny
can confirm on the turquoise in new mexico
Mmmm both bojack and the dad is a bad idea for prom!!!!
turquoise: that's either code for meth or a gateway to it
While I love this episode, I think it's up there with my favourite episode of all of Bojack Horseman and that it's the one when Bojack and Sarah Lynn go on a bender. That episode is peak Bojack in my opinion.
I also adore episode 11 from season 1 because of its crazyness and the different animations of the sequence. I love that the animators really showed their creativity on that one.
Something about the "can't believe he's about to do this" of the situation in this episode made me remember that I've been wondering -would you by any chance consider doing an analysis on Joker 2 ? The way the symbolisms and social, media and psychology commentaries of that one fly over people's head astonish me personally. Could really use someone as emotionally intelligent and knowledgeable on dark trauma themes as you breaking it down, seeing as good you're at explaining these sorts of storytelling. It's also super interesting how the movie feels as if could have ended being made as mixed media with all the retro animation references to it.
No matter where you look you can find some turquoise
not American so can someone explain the dad bringing you to prom thing because that strikes me as just as weird?
Its weird here too. Its a sign no one wanted to go with you and is a huge embarrassment despite the dad just trying to be a good dad
Yeah prom doesn’t have to be a “Date” thing.
Girls who don’t have boyfriends can go with a friend or relative and still enjoy the party.
The girls and lime, it’s pronounced hee-luh and the Gila is a type of lizard
Fake Drake is lowkey better than real Drake
Not said Gila it's said He-la. Espanol
Wow kinda easy response to the episode cause everything and every response is so already everything that we already know what happened but the the video keeps on saying a lot of things that happened that we already knew ? So what are you gunna reply to me “Mr.Positivity”(I know I didn’t spell it right but you still get what I’m saying)
3 hours ago