Rhythm Game Design 101

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  • Опубліковано 16 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 486

  • @waterboiledpizza
    @waterboiledpizza 4 роки тому +854

    Designer: What direction should the notes come from?
    Stepmania: From the bottom
    IIDX: From the top
    Taiko: From the right
    Groove Coaster: Yes

  • @tekartsu2051
    @tekartsu2051 4 роки тому +778

    Rhythm game design 101:
    1. Have anime

    • @tekartsu2051
      @tekartsu2051 4 роки тому +44

      @@Rose_Emp Yeah, and I'm kinda hating it for that.

    • @tekartsu2051
      @tekartsu2051 4 роки тому +68

      Like, I just wanna play rhythm games, and not get weird looks from other people.

    • @kr1sp51
      @kr1sp51 4 роки тому +20

      Kaizato bro if you want no anime try etterna. It’s a very nice game with a sort of minimalist look.

    • @stellarphantasmvfx5504
      @stellarphantasmvfx5504 4 роки тому +2

      @@TStudiosInc Beat Saber is one of the Best VR games out there

    • @azadanzans5359
      @azadanzans5359 4 роки тому

      101 = 1 of 1

  • @rachelgabbytapper2620
    @rachelgabbytapper2620 4 роки тому +267

    Something I have only seen in Project Diva Future Tone and it's Switch version: PRACTICE mode.
    No one wants to play through the entire song 500 times to get one shot at that part in the end you haven't figured out yet..

    • @WraxTV
      @WraxTV 4 роки тому +46

      Clone Hero - and it's been ages since I've played it, but I think practicing specific sections has been a thing since the first Guitar Hero.
      But yeah, it is surprising it's not in more games.

    • @PennPal573
      @PennPal573 4 роки тому +10

      Beat saber has that as well and it's borderline required.
      Also most CS DDR games have a practice mode as well IIRC

    • @lxkng22222
      @lxkng22222 4 роки тому +1

      i believe Taiko has it as well

    • @otakukent3079
      @otakukent3079 4 роки тому +6

      This is kind of a joke comment but geometry dash has a practice mode as well, which in my opinion is useful but I just dont use it

    • @rachelgabbytapper2620
      @rachelgabbytapper2620 4 роки тому +4

      @@otakukent3079 Well.. You are right. But I prefer start positions which is also great practice.

  • @quaternaryyy
    @quaternaryyy 4 роки тому +358

    Re: offset, I'm always surprised by how many games give you an option to set a positive or negative offset value in milliseconds, but don't explain what you're actually moving. When I choose +30ms are the objects coming earlier than they used to, or later? Am I moving the notes or the audio track? Not every game is the same

    • @バカロン
      @バカロン 4 роки тому +41

      I agree on this one. Pro osu! players say that local and global offsets are the opposite, but where did they get that? I didn't even know it's a thing for quite some time.
      Example: ask.fm/Rohulk/answers/134156223067 I feel dumb for asking this, but why is it the opposite? Maybe someone here can answer this.

    • @mijkolsmith
      @mijkolsmith 4 роки тому +40

      One offset influences the audio, the other the hitposition. You're very right that it's confusing having two especially when osu doesn't explain they are different.

    • @2007excalibur2007
      @2007excalibur2007 4 роки тому +20

      if it's NOTE offset, then you're moving exactly that: the notes themselves. So a positive value means the notes are delayed, so they will cross the timing window later. Negative value = earlier.
      if it's VIDEO offset, then you're moving the timing window. The "video" here usually refers to how late you're hitting the notes (because your display is showing the image output late), and so the timing window is adjusted to account for that. So for a positive value, the window will be pushed down/towards you if it's downwards scrolling, or up/away from you if it's upwards scrolling.
      if it's AUDIO offset, then you're moving, well, the audio. The value here usually refers to the actual delay between what the game sees and your audio hardware. So assuming perfect 0ms video, if you tell the game +60ms audio offset, then the game will compensate for that and make the music come 60ms earlier, meaning the actual beat will come BEFORE the note. This one is a little more common for rhythm games that are played on PC, where the audio is in reality usually a few milliseconds later than the video; although most of us will barely notice this delay outside of playing rhythm games.
      EDIT: additionally, on PC, video lag is often [virtually] nonexistent (unless you decide to hook your rig up to an HDTV), so when games just say "offset", it's usually the note offset, because setting +60ms note offset or +60ms audio offset ultimately has exactly the same effect: they make the beat and the note sync up to each other.

    • @DominoPivot
      @DominoPivot 4 роки тому +6

      So true. I'm also really sad when a game only supports one type of offset. I had to purchase a new monitor just to play Project Diva while Guitar Hero never caused me any issues even when playing on HDTVs with crazy lag.

  • @argonaut640
    @argonaut640 4 роки тому +376

    Meanwhile, we have Rhythm Heaven where the game *is* the design.

    • @KudosK42
      @KudosK42 3 роки тому +15

      Its cleaver

    • @asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977
      @asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 3 роки тому +26

      which is why its one of the only "true" rhythm games. In others, its more of a "timing" and memory game as you're watching with your eyes and memorising the sequence, to the rhythm yes, but if you went on a different or new song, blindfolded, you wouldn't be able to learn it in the slightest, whereas rhythm heaven you can.

    • @duccline
      @duccline 3 роки тому +18

      @@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 rhythm heaven explaining why rhythm heaven is the only true rhythm game

    • @nandanthony
      @nandanthony 3 роки тому +18

      @@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 there was a story of a blind kid who managed to beat rhythm tengoku.
      Bet he didnt do as well on osu lmao

    • @gluesellerandsmeller8768
      @gluesellerandsmeller8768 3 роки тому +1

      Haven’t herd that name in years

  • @duaf1xd362
    @duaf1xd362 4 роки тому +114

    For me, it’s the stability and consistency of the CONTROLLER that the game uses.
    Like, it really turns me off when you try your best to hit Perfects but it still gives you a lesser rating or does not register at all.
    An example is PIU pads- newly shipped machines have unmodded pads that are virtually impossible to play on high levels because you end up missing holds even if you held very tight- or getting a tons of greats, goods, bads
    It’s a part of the operator’s fault if the pads remains untuned to playable state. Then again, such effort wouldn’t have been necessary if the original maker made sure that the pads are actually highly responsive rather than just being “ok, it does register some notes”

    • @FlameRat_YehLon
      @FlameRat_YehLon 4 роки тому +8

      Sometimes it's just the arcade center getting lazy I think... After all rhythm games are nowhere near as profitable as crane catchers and ticket machines. And even if the pads are properly designed, if there are not enough maintenance the pad will go bad sometime.

    • @duaf1xd362
      @duaf1xd362 4 роки тому +7

      @@FlameRat_YehLon completely agree with what you said. Other rhythm games all have some kinds of misconfigurations too- being too close, not close enough to walls, mismatched parts etc lol, which in the end is fault of the arcade center.

    • @FlameRat_YehLon
      @FlameRat_YehLon 4 роки тому

      @@duaf1xd362 And just how loud nearby machines are...

  • @bigdaddyafro4924
    @bigdaddyafro4924 4 роки тому +31

    Title should be "Accessibility in Rhythm Games"
    I've been wanting to make a rhythm game for ages and these ideas are always in mind when I come up with a new idea!
    Great video though!

  • @mxrcuschong
    @mxrcuschong 4 роки тому +73

    This popped up in my recommended and I was intrigued to watch even though I have never really played a rhythm game in my life. Anyways, this was such a well put together video and maybe I’ll pick up a game or two in the future!

    • @EtienneYT
      @EtienneYT  4 роки тому +18

      Hope you do! These games are quite fun and addicting haha

    • @SyphistPrime
      @SyphistPrime 4 роки тому +5

      Osu is free to download and play. You can play it with a mouse and keyboard, and the other 3 modes it has only need a keyboard. It's a great way to get into rhythm games.

    • @ceebeetee8897
      @ceebeetee8897 4 роки тому

      I see UA-cam's recommending actual quality content for once! Haha

  • @brendannichol3490
    @brendannichol3490 4 роки тому +16

    The aesthetics part may seem like a small point, but to me was a huge one. What drew myself and many others into osu was it’s look and simplicity of the UI. Everything looks good and consistent, it’s sorted in a way that makes sense and overall doesn’t seem like a mess. A small detail that makes a huge difference.

  • @SheepyChris
    @SheepyChris 4 роки тому +39

    Unfortunately, Rush was eventually removed in Pump It Up XX because of concerns from song artists and recent contracts not allowing any kind of modifications to songs. Prime 2 still had the feature but was restricted to BanYa songs, a defunct in-house group that hasn't made songs since the Fiesta era. Considering that the mod would continue to not be usable with newer songs and the restrictions made players confused, it was the best option to completely drop Rush altogether.

    • @Puffle573
      @Puffle573 4 роки тому +3

      I used Rush mode on Prime, it was very chaotic but fun, but it was stupid that they removed it, it's just a song speed modifier that can make games quicker and more fun as well, in pretty disappointed to see that

  • @sebastianmitchell4776
    @sebastianmitchell4776 4 роки тому +142

    Robeats lacking a leaderboard is definitely a huge problem for top players.
    Edit: please stop replying this is a joke lmao

    • @mijkolsmith
      @mijkolsmith 4 роки тому +3

      Leaderboards! So simple yet essential

    • @SanicStudios
      @SanicStudios 4 роки тому +17

      Not exactly the most serious of rhythm games but I catch your drift (also osu mania exists sooo....)

    • @dynamical7659
      @dynamical7659 4 роки тому +2

      As is, the leaderboard can easily be exploited.

    • @RBXDuy
      @RBXDuy 4 роки тому +4

      I don't know what to expect tbh, the game ranking is heavily based on gears not skills, p2w. I still enjoy the maps tho lol

    • @DimensionalRun
      @DimensionalRun 4 роки тому +3

      the fact that it is p2w is a huge no-no

  • @Dargin
    @Dargin 4 роки тому +49

    In the defense of taiko, specifically osu!taiko, a note speed multiplier wouldn't be viable as it would reduce the skill required to play mods like Hard Rock where the only difficulty increase other than the hit window IS the note speed. While a reading comfort zone is subjective, the skill built to allow someone to read the notes faster is not so much.

    • @popop614
      @popop614 4 роки тому +19

      as a taiko player, i have to agree
      taiko is played by reading the absolute distance between notes
      i think that taiko was originally meant to represent note gaps with the same rhythmic equivalents equally as to represent sheet music

    • @churro4780
      @churro4780 4 роки тому +1

      Yeah sv maps are hard. Also hi Dargin

    • @SyphistPrime
      @SyphistPrime 4 роки тому

      I completely agree. After playing taiko a lot and getting a good chunk of skill, I'm pretty SV agnostic. The game is read by looking at the space in between notes for timing. Any good chart is gonna make sure there's decent spacing. My only complaint is that high SV is hard to come back to after taking a break. That's a problem with high SV in general though and not taiko.

    • @chrisheartman9263
      @chrisheartman9263 4 роки тому +2

      Unfortunately original Taiko no Tatsujin has the speed mod, so your argument falls kinda flat.

    • @Dargin
      @Dargin 4 роки тому +1

      @@chrisheartman9263 I specified osu!taiko

  • @flan_fan1234
    @flan_fan1234 4 роки тому +24

    Taiko: The scroll speed is affected by the BPM
    SV: *you forgot me*

    • @kevincarazo5330
      @kevincarazo5330 4 роки тому +6

      Resolution: *nobody remembers me right?*

  • @The_Machina
    @The_Machina 4 роки тому +18

    Probably said a lot before but I feel like most rhythm games should definitely have a late/early judgement. Very helpful in adjusting your timing mid game in dense/stream songs.

  • @flamedarkflare
    @flamedarkflare 4 роки тому +187

    This is less of a "game design 101"
    And more of a "Important things that every game needs"
    Good video though.

    • @SuperAwesome10101
      @SuperAwesome10101 4 роки тому +13

      Those are the same thing

    • @DominoPivot
      @DominoPivot 4 роки тому +2

      Yeah, I landed here looking for opinions on a completely different topic but found the video interesting nonetheless. These are indeed quality of life options every rhythm game should try to include.

  • @XepherIo
    @XepherIo 4 роки тому +40

    Setting offset should be accessible in ANY rhythm game.

  • @Clanver
    @Clanver 4 роки тому +22

    no customizable input
    no customizable ui
    no background toggle
    no steady bpm
    im a dirty casual project diva player ~

    • @sunk6478
      @sunk6478 4 роки тому +1

      Input is somewhat customizable
      Otherwise nothing else

  • @boingboingboingboing
    @boingboingboingboing 4 роки тому +4

    surprised a difficulty rating system wasn't mentioned. most games outside of etterna have pretty bare bones arbitrary difficulty ratings if they have any at all. it's insanely helpful in etterna being able to see the difficult rating for each skillset for every song, and being able to filter to whatever rating you want.

  • @deko97
    @deko97 4 роки тому +4

    Great video, for me personally what i love in a rhythm game (and pretty much in any other genre) is audio/visual feedback, which is why i love sound voltex for the way the FX buttons modify the songs when you press them and how the lasers move the lane or shake it. It feels like your inputs have an impact on the screen and makes playing the game a lot of fun.

  • @MGPlayers
    @MGPlayers Рік тому +1

    Fun fact after 3 years, pop'n music does have an up scroll option, it's one of the ojama

  • @zero-gi6gp
    @zero-gi6gp 4 роки тому +9

    I feel like snap colours should at least be an option in any game. It helps with reading when the notes are too dense, and turns timing into less of a guessing game with unfamiliar patterns.
    I'd say it helps a lot similarly to how sixteenths or triplets, etc. are grouped together in conventional sheet music

    • @popop614
      @popop614 4 роки тому

      ig taiko scroll is similar to that because of the bpm scale
      the gaps are like the snap colors, but snap is probably more readable

    • @mijkolsmith
      @mijkolsmith 4 роки тому

      Personally for me, I've always found it a little confusing in the middle of a song having all different coloured notes. This only works well on a dark background as well

  • @rileyposter
    @rileyposter 4 роки тому +4

    I love all the extra options introduced in simply love, they make ITG a lot more comfortable to play and allow for a crazy amount of customization, whenever I play DDR I have a rough time adjusting to no mini or perspective options.
    The part where you talked about ratemodding is also very true, ITG naturally has a content deficit at the very upper end (23+), ratemodding really helps people in the upper echelons still improve without having to play the same pool of a couple of songs (or fof).

  • @ThePurpleAnon
    @ThePurpleAnon 3 роки тому +10

    The fact that Rhythm Heaven wasn't even mentioned in this video is immensely saddening to me

    • @zememerr2329
      @zememerr2329 3 роки тому +1

      It’s sort of funny since I consider all of the games (even Tengoku) as pretty solid games design wise and meanwhile this video implies they’re all bad since they all don’t have *any* of these options like speed modifiers for the games

    • @taggerung_
      @taggerung_ 3 роки тому +2

      @@zememerr2329 its not that rhythm heaven is bad, its just not the kind of rhythm game being discussed here. theres a difference between casual rhythm games and competitive ones. he's talking about the competitive ones in this video where every option should be available to the player for improvement purposes.

    • @melodywawichi802
      @melodywawichi802 3 роки тому +1

      I’d say if you can’t compete for a visible numeric score, then it’s not the kind of rhythm game that needs this set of design elements in the first place.

    • @ThePurpleAnon
      @ThePurpleAnon 3 роки тому

      @@melodywawichi802 Rhythm Heaven Megamix literally gives you a numeric score based on how accurate your timing was after you complete every single minigame lmao. I agree that maybe rhythm heaven doesn't need these features per se but the 3DS version literally grades you on a 1-100 scale based on accuracy, so I don't think competitiveness is an issue here

  • @0ia
    @0ia 4 роки тому +14

    5:41
    That's a distracting foreground element, not a background element.

  • @Solivisor
    @Solivisor 4 роки тому +139

    I’m sorry, but I’m really upset because Taiko no Tatsujin DOES HAVE A SPEED MOD but you only considered osu!taiko which doesn’t.

    • @chrisheartman9263
      @chrisheartman9263 4 роки тому +8

      Thing is: osu!taiko is the most played version of ToT. So he's *technically right*

    • @radio100jogosdeemacs2
      @radio100jogosdeemacs2 4 роки тому +65

      >osu!taiko is the most played version of TnT
      Found the american idiot that think's only his country exists

    • @spyh4rd
      @spyh4rd 4 роки тому +45

      I know that made me so angry. Real actual Taiko has a f*cking speed mod. Fucking osu players

    • @heyjakeay
      @heyjakeay 4 роки тому +1

      This. Pretty disappointing.

    • @drowsy5879
      @drowsy5879 4 роки тому +2

      Radio Ancap-socialista Noruegês literally no context about America? Its a fucking shit game mode who cares

  • @wjrboss8502
    @wjrboss8502 4 роки тому +2

    As someone who grew up on rock band, I found the ability to change the track speed super helpful, also with rock band 4 allowing you to change how the track looks definitely helps

  • @QuotientGD
    @QuotientGD 4 роки тому +2

    Mods don't only apply on rhythm games, but all devices in general. We should be able to customize certain buttons on our devices, such as the send button of this comment, or the comment button itself. Sometimes a small difference in the placement of buttons can reduce number of errors of hitting the buttons, especially for fast typists.

  • @JoboTheBestEU
    @JoboTheBestEU 4 роки тому +3

    I'd love to see an Etterna judge system (Even a simplified version) implemented into Clone hero. You could even incentivize players to use it by increasing/decreasing score per note based on the leniency of the window.
    Flow direction should be in all rhythm games, but also the ability to have vertical flow games (DDR/Clone Hero etc.) be ran in monitor portrait mode resolutions (1080x1920), for those who dislike the amount of dead space on the screen.

  • @senya6095
    @senya6095 4 роки тому +19

    *looks at quaver*

    • @xeronimity5947
      @xeronimity5947 4 роки тому

      can't tell if you're being sarcastic since it does literally everything he goes over lol?

    • @mijkolsmith
      @mijkolsmith 4 роки тому

      @@xeronimity5947 maybe that's his point

  • @Aoreo
    @Aoreo 4 роки тому +7

    Every game should have M-Mods. I'm glad that Pump finally introduced them in Prime 2. I can't believe DDR still doesn't have them, but almost every other current bemani rhythm game that scrolls has them.
    Other things I'd love to see in more games:
    - Chart previews on song select
    - Selecting rate mods based on BPM rather than a decimal.
    - Dynamic rate mods (if a song has bpm changes it changes mid song to keep it one constant speed)
    - [Specifically in DDR] Being able to toggle the announcer on/off. Literally the only bemani game that has one.
    - Custom visual offsets on a per player basis rather than system wide.
    - Better sorting/sub-sorting/filtering options. (FFR actually does this really well)

  • @biscottidreams
    @biscottidreams 4 роки тому +3

    One thing I’ve noticed from playing more tablet/phone rhythm games is that it seems to be easier for companies to fix or include all of these video talking points into a handheld game. There’s just as much variety for mobage rhythm games as there are in their physical counterparts!

    • @TheEpicPancake
      @TheEpicPancake 3 роки тому +2

      I feel it's likely more to do with touchscreens allowing more flexibility in input method than ye old keyboard. Hell, even controller allows more due to its sticks. Unfortunately having a straight on or off without any modification other than what button is on or off is limiting. I could see a rhythm game utilizing modifier keys perhaps though. That could be pretty cool were it executed well, and perhaps there is already one.

  • @michaelmarkus7741
    @michaelmarkus7741 4 роки тому +1

    Great work on that video, I like how you explain your opinions with good arguments. Also nice to see that it seems like we covered almost all your wishes in StepManiaX ;)

  • @joao34386
    @joao34386 3 роки тому +1

    3:35 - Regarding note direction, it's also not just a matter of whether they scroll up, down, or sideways, but the angle they come at is also significant.
    Most Stepmania-like rhythm games are flat and the arrows scroll either up or down perfectly straight, but games like guitar hero have the notes approach from the background to the foreground, which can be troublesome for some people.
    I'm pretty good at stepmania, so when a friend invited me to play ro-beats (i know, roblox, kids game, yadda yadda) I figured it'd be pretty easy to play it... but I ended up feeling nauseous, and had to take a break.
    The arrows start far in the background and then approach to the foreground, and for some reason my eyes and brain just couldn't deal with it and it made me feel gradually more sick and dizzy the longer I went on.

  • @jonathanrupe8399
    @jonathanrupe8399 4 роки тому +2

    Something that StepMania has had for years that I want in all of my rhythm games is the ability to loosen the timing window. PIU also has this, but that game's window is pretty lenient as is.
    I wouldn't care if this hypothetical timing mod disqualified you from leaderboards, in fact, that'd be a good idea (better idea: separate leaderboards), but I just want to have fun with loose windows instead of struggling with strict ones.

  • @controlpro438
    @controlpro438 4 роки тому +14

    as someone who’s only played taiko for most of my rhythm game career, when i heard about speed modification in other games, it was really hard to get my head around. personally, i believe that having maps have speed set by bpm means everyone sees the same thing, and therefore is fair and equal lol. idk tho

    • @EtienneYT
      @EtienneYT  4 роки тому +6

      Everyone does see the same thing, but everyone has different natural preferences for how fast/slow they can read something! It's certainly equal at face value, but BPM reading varies quite a bit between players overall.
      Players can learn how to read really fast/really slow, but it still won't quite beat someone who is already so much more used to it if they were to put the same amount of time into a map.

    • @kadoen
      @kadoen 4 роки тому +1

      Yeah, in taiko BPM reading is a skill to be learned while in other games it isn't. For some people slower scroll songs will be easier, and for some they will be harder, it's just a different reading ability.

    • @spyh4rd
      @spyh4rd 4 роки тому

      You mean osu!taiko?

  • @berrylawl
    @berrylawl 4 роки тому +6

    5:17 ayyy thats my boy crackhead vaxei

  • @CyphersBasement
    @CyphersBasement 4 роки тому

    Nice video. I've been playing Stepmania off and on for 15ish years. Assist Tick is a helpful function that generates a noise whenever a note reaches the note receptors. I believe this, along with adjusting the Rate, is something we should see in every rhythm game. Changing the colors of the notes is helpful as well. If I could add a function, I'd add something akin to the ghost racer in driving games. An AI that plays at about the level you played at when you established your most recent high score on a song could play against you and give you something relative to a challenge. It'd be fun to include, and should have skill relative to how you played a song at different rates.

  • @reillocb
    @reillocb 4 роки тому +1

    One crucial thing you missed is the ability to play all difficulties. As an experienced player of many games, i hate when I'm interested in a game but have to unlock the hardest difficulties. Looking at you, groove coaster/muse dash

  • @maxie11112
    @maxie11112 4 роки тому +2

    To be fair for Taiko part of the challenge is the reading aspect, like part of the difficulty comes from the variety of speed of the notes coming.

    • @EtienneYT
      @EtienneYT  4 роки тому

      The variety of speeds, I definitely agree with are a skill. However, I think everyone should be able to have a base speed multiplier they can use e.g. 1.25x, 1.5x, etc, to read those varying BPM's that are naturally more comfortable for them.

    • @maxie11112
      @maxie11112 4 роки тому

      @@EtienneYT ah I see what your saying. For Taiko no tatsujin you can speed it up by 2x 4x etc, and osu has dt and ht but thats about it

    • @mouzedrift3629
      @mouzedrift3629 4 роки тому

      @@EtienneYT well you could technically just go into the editor and change the scroll speed

  • @WraxTV
    @WraxTV 4 роки тому

    I actually just played a modchart for Clone Hero where the notes scrolled up, in fact the whole chart looked like it was mimicking DDR. It was an interesting experience.
    What would be really great is if not only having notes scroll down or up was an option, but it was an option for each player.

  • @reillocb
    @reillocb 3 роки тому +2

    This one is harder to grok, but difficulty curve in charting. There should never be a time where the only songs playable are either too easy or too hard. I'm a seasoned rhythm game player and tone sphere's hardest difficulty charts have this problem imo.

  • @hattrick271
    @hattrick271 4 роки тому

    One thing that's been interesting to observe in rhythm games is the evolution of visual clarity/accessibility, especially related to the controller/display interface. Older games like DDR, PIU, IIDX, and Pop'n have fairly unintuitive or difficult to learn note displays. In DDR and PIU, there's a steep learning curve in converting arrows on the screen to directional movement with your feet. Pop'n and IIDX are similar in that the notes are presented in a flat line, but the buttons are offset on the controller, and hand positioning becomes a problem. Everyone that plays them is used to it now, but it's not easy to get started.
    More modern games like Jubeat, Osu, Maimai, and Chunithm are much better at this (especially Maimai and Chunithm). The rise of unique screen configurations makes it so that there's a much more direct relationship between what you see and the buttons you press (or even just with touch screens now). Even Sound Voltex is much better than previous Bemani games, because the buttons line up the same way as the screen displays them, and your hands have a more natural "home" position.

  • @ulti_fd
    @ulti_fd 4 роки тому +2

    Big + on choosing scroll direction. I've recently been getting into IIDX and learning downscroll still somewhat feels like a struggle. Good thing the game is definitely fun enough to offset that

    • @chrisheartman9263
      @chrisheartman9263 4 роки тому

      Downscroll is the spawn of satan.

    • @naturalnonsense
      @naturalnonsense 4 роки тому

      I always feel dizzy after playing ONE song in downscroll... Good to hear i'm not the only one to think it's uncomfortable

  • @Latias38
    @Latias38 4 роки тому

    Huge plus for toggle backgrounds. Its alot easier to focus when the background doesnt interfere with reading notes, and a huge example of that is Hatsune Miku Future Tone, where when your playing; the background is so bright, coupled with white borders on the notes, cant even see the notes half the time. If I try the same song in practice mode, where the background is a static image; so much easier to read and hit notes

  • @nickel7o740
    @nickel7o740 4 роки тому +1

    The one thing I think is missing in most rhythm games is the Edit Mode feature used in the console DDR games.
    That's the biggest thing that I miss in other rhythm games.

  • @okkeokkke
    @okkeokkke 4 роки тому +3

    5:49 bruh look at beasttrollmc wearing a rocket costume

  • @THREA
    @THREA 4 роки тому

    Extremely well made video Etienne. I think for me, while as a Clone Hero player, the timing window is something I wish was adjusted, my biggest issue with games is the first topic you brought up, related to reading notes with speed mods. I even personally have issues reading complex patterns, which is why I have a very high note speed in Clone Hero. I’ve always felt that regardless of the games engine difficulty, the most important aspect of rhythm games (most competitive ones), is a variety of options to allow every player to feel comfortable playing. If a player has that ability to give themselves a way to allow their brain to play efficiently, anyone can improve and become the best. Also thank you for the little snip it in the beginning of the video. :)

  • @Brixmatt85
    @Brixmatt85 4 роки тому +1

    I definitely agree with the aesthetics part. A lot of the fan versions of existing games are so lacking in visuals that I find myself subconsciously not caring to ever try them out.

  • @kenneth5715
    @kenneth5715 4 роки тому +11

    No mention of Project DIVA any where. Kind of disappointing...

    • @doritolegend9664
      @doritolegend9664 4 роки тому +2

      The entire game is made to advertise the vocaloids lol but yeah it's still a rythme game don't know why it's not here.

  • @kisparks
    @kisparks 4 роки тому +1

    I would like flashier feedback for hitting best timing per note. Like flashier lights, or pretty exploding graphics.
    I also love combo splash screens, I miss those from Supernova 2 and DDR X.

    • @Mihaugoku
      @Mihaugoku 4 роки тому

      Well, that's subjective. As a top-level Taiko player, I prefer not having too much going on to focus on getting good scores. But as I said, it's just personal preference. That's what skins/themes are good for!

    • @kisparks
      @kisparks 4 роки тому +1

      @@Mihaugoku This is true, options is key, letting you change every bit is nice. Remove BG, change scroll speed, remove time-stops, change note-skins. For DDR I run simply love just because of all the options, but when I play A20 it kinda throws me off since the options are way more limited.

  • @fagitocumaeda
    @fagitocumaeda 4 роки тому +3

    For a second, i thought you were going to design a room with a rhythm game theme to it

  • @Ataraxia0
    @Ataraxia0 4 роки тому +2

    most games: go down. step mania: go up. taiko: from the right. groove coaster: all directions on a 2d plane. beat saber: *yes.*

  • @crimson-foxtwitch2581
    @crimson-foxtwitch2581 4 роки тому

    1:22 I think for games like ReRave, Osu, and Maimai, there should be scalable approach rate settings for each aspect, like how long it takes circles to fade in, fade out, and how quickly the approach circle moves. For Maimai, it’s for fade-in and movement speed.

  • @AstralPhnx
    @AstralPhnx 4 роки тому

    Also on the topic of constant speed mods. In some games I feel they're fine but most of the time BPM changes are an added challenge in charts so learning to read BPM changes is still important

  • @djpredatorcz
    @djpredatorcz 3 роки тому

    Loved how for osu! you included a spaceship Ed exiting the atmosphere. Nice one.

  • @kevincarazo5330
    @kevincarazo5330 4 роки тому

    2:10 that's a half truth. In taiko, you can change the amount of notes on screen by changing the resolution from 16:9 to 4:3. That happens because the game cuts a part of the playing field when using 4:3. I've used that "trick" recently to read >230bpm maps with nomod, and slow maps too.
    When using 16:9, the game adds like 20% playing field, so it makes reading high bpm maps easier.

    • @Mihaugoku
      @Mihaugoku 4 роки тому

      Nah it's mostly because peppy is a lazy fuck that couldn't be bothered to fix the mode in the many years it's been out.

  • @Kamikaze1180
    @Kamikaze1180 4 роки тому +2

    The "sample method" has been in Lunatic Rave 2 for as long as it's around so at lear 15 years although it maight not be as sophisticated

  • @aryasaktiflister_aw
    @aryasaktiflister_aw 4 роки тому

    Flashy-ness makes a good appeal. I remember loving Lanota for gimmicks in the disc's movement, and of course Voez

  • @yutsi_e
    @yutsi_e 4 роки тому +6

    3:02 chad ITG player using orb skin lol

    • @krushrpants
      @krushrpants 4 роки тому +1

      calling JDongs a 'chad ITG player' is pretty based

  • @leonardo9259
    @leonardo9259 4 роки тому

    As someone who is prepping for developing a open source version for TnS (like clone hero, bot the arcade of Taiko) this helps a lot

  • @TextureOfCouch
    @TextureOfCouch 4 роки тому +1

    Symmetrical timing windows is the biggest part of this that I preach; I noticed GH5 for 360 and PS3 has a huge late hit window, but has an early hit window the size of a tick's butt hair. GH5 for Wii feels more even in my opinion compared to the others.

  • @Erik_Emer
    @Erik_Emer 3 роки тому

    3:57
    Pop'n Music does actually offer an upside down mod, just not as a regular mod, like speed or size of object.

  • @PHeartbeatGame
    @PHeartbeatGame 4 роки тому +1

    I will take everything stated into consideration for my game, even if it's not a VSRG, thank you Etienne, you are the best.

  • @cherrie_31415
    @cherrie_31415 3 роки тому

    Background dim yes, Note size yes. Offset/calibration yes
    Note speed, Note direction and timing windows (mainly depends on the game's concept and flexibility)
    Phigros doesn't have an adjustable note speed, but has really cool visuals and charts. I like calling it a playable music video.

  • @wayveyx
    @wayveyx 4 роки тому +5

    9:05 jesus look at that ring finger... They would not let a girl down with that one lmao

  • @MMenyan
    @MMenyan 4 роки тому

    i think the inconsistency in how the game is played that you mentioned at about 6:41 is by now an integral part of osu and much like pp, it's probably too late to turn back now
    the advantages of it from what i can see are both from the map designer point of view and the player point of view. for mappers, it adds a layer of design choice and musical representation particularly with cs, od and (unrelated) slider leniency. for players (and mappers), it allows for similar difficulty (pp, subjective or star rating wise) maps to have a wider range such as to have the difficulty be more from accuracy or circle size or speed or ar (which does actually give pp when low or high enough)
    but i think the simple solution to this is to have a map default that the mappers pick for the bpm, cs, od, hp, etc and to let the player change it however they want so you can play ar10 od8 on every single map in your life if you wanted to, much like mcosu, or have days where you play exclusively high acc perhaps to farm pp and set it to od 10.5 or smth and lock it like you can with mcosu and then another day decide you wanna play maps at od8 but 270bpm or 1.4x speed or smth and cs 3.6
    in conclusion: osu is poopy and should just let the mapper decide the default settings for when you download it but let you play it with whatever and itll basically be like hardrock and/or dt but more customiseable
    also hp sucks and nf should be equal to nm

  • @AstralPhnx
    @AstralPhnx 4 роки тому

    Another thing about notes that isn't mentioned that I personally find is a big one, visual feedback.
    I find personally that I play better when I get MORE visual feedback from hitting a note (i.e visible note burst, medium to large combo counter in my field of vision, maybe even with a pulse animation to give that extra confirmation of a hit) as opposed to less which is why I tend to play like total garbage with stepmania themes that go all minimal with zero animations or combo bursts.
    It's a small one but I'm sure SOMEONE out there is with me on this

  • @nazqa4049
    @nazqa4049 4 роки тому +3

    MaiMai is honestly so underrated it's crazy

  • @pascald7863
    @pascald7863 4 роки тому +2

    Wow I've been playing taiko for almost four years and it never even crossed my mind that it could basically scroll from left to right lmao would like to see the difference in reading

  • @D3usExMachina
    @D3usExMachina 3 роки тому

    Late to the party with this one, but Note Ticks. Being a stepmania player, note Ticks have helped so much understand some of the trickier sections in songs and figure out more difficult patterns

  • @TommyPKFire
    @TommyPKFire 4 роки тому +4

    Your content is so under exposed! I love this channel.

  • @RazorL1ly
    @RazorL1ly 4 роки тому +1

    Apart from the adjustable speeds part (which is actually being added soon when lazer is released) osu pretty much fills every box here!

  • @Doggo420
    @Doggo420 3 роки тому +1

    osu!lazer actually provides you with seamless speedup options

  • @somethingsomething9006
    @somethingsomething9006 4 роки тому +2

    TRAINING. MODE.
    Guitar Hero has done it best from what I've played, and Project Diva is also really good at it, but DJMAX Respect does not and it's kind of irritating when you just want to practice one part that gets you.

    • @zgamerf8807
      @zgamerf8807 4 роки тому

      There used to be a practice option, but it only appeared in Trilogy once, and I remember it still doesn't allow you to play a specific part you struggle

  • @Aetrenity
    @Aetrenity 3 роки тому

    My favorite osu! mod is EZ. The agme treats like it makes the game well, easier when it actually makes it harder. Also its really fun

  • @Degenerate04
    @Degenerate04 4 роки тому +2

    When mentioning specific speed changes in osu! you forget that because pp exists, the amount of effort needed to properly build, test and balance pp when using these speed mods far outweighs the potential benefits. I know this because in McOsu, an osu! client available on steam, allows you to do that and it completely breaks pp. I, a nobody have a 1.2k pp play on McOsu because of how badly this effects pp.

  • @SpacedogD
    @SpacedogD 4 роки тому

    Pop'n music do have upscroll option in one of the ojama. You can enable it permanently in the ojama.

    • @spyh4rd
      @spyh4rd 4 роки тому

      Wait is this still true in peace?? Holy

  • @tka3
    @tka3 4 роки тому

    I agree with all the things said in this video. Every game certainly should have as much flexibility that benefits new players and also satisfies the old pros of the game, Taiko no Tatsujin (and osu!taiko) in particular were one of the hardest games for me to learn due to the scrollspeed being absolutely atrocious at times. Auto offset corrections would also be a big plus for new players who may not be used to the offset, coming from other games or new to the rhythm game scene in general.

  • @CacoPholey
    @CacoPholey 3 роки тому

    I wish that every rhythm game had a section system like the plastic instrument games, as going for tech FCs in Clone Hero is the entire reason I play the game

  • @CompressionPolice
    @CompressionPolice 4 роки тому +2

    Remember when the devs of the Simply Love theme decided that removing the audio syncing functionality from the options menu was a good idea? What a joke.

  • @yoshisarethebomb
    @yoshisarethebomb 3 роки тому

    Hope one day, there’ll be a Pop’n level where the chart would turn into a down scrolling level in the middle of the song. Sad they don’t do anything fun with the charts. They did a lot of fun things in Sound Voltex: Cut the chart in half, make the note grid (?) disappear, etc.

  • @Jellylamps
    @Jellylamps 4 роки тому

    Up scroll versus down scroll is a really good topic to bring up. For over a decade I’ve been playing guitar hero and i recently started playing a game similar to DDR but with diagonals (i think it was called pump it up or something, not positive on that) and the up scroll has been an uphill battle. I’m winning said battle but still it shouldn’t be necessary

    • @your_komorebi7824
      @your_komorebi7824 4 роки тому

      I believe PIU has a downscroll option but I'm not sure how to enable it

    • @auricarev.
      @auricarev. 4 роки тому

      On StepF2 it's the DR mod(Drop).
      Dunno if it's still available in newer PIU titles since StepF2 uses the 2013 theme for PIU (Fiesta 2)

  • @travconnelly
    @travconnelly 3 роки тому

    Every lane based rhythm game should have beat lines (ghost lines indicating every beat with a slightly bolder ghost line indicating the down beat of every measure, just like in Rock Band and Guitar Hero and Clone Hero)
    This was mentioned in the video, but I also feel strongly that every rhythm game needs a robust and easy to use auto calibration tool.

  • @Tacoyaki96
    @Tacoyaki96 4 роки тому

    Most Taiko players don't even mess with speed settings, because the notecharts weren't made with them in mind. But the new cabinets coming out allow for more specific speed modifiers, so that's good at least.
    Also, Taiko sims are so frustrating because of the lack of offset adjustment in them, TJAP3 and TCDN would be great if i could hit the notes properly.

  • @Scopatone
    @Scopatone 3 роки тому

    "You should be able to change the direction the notes come from"
    Jubeat: Hold my beer

  • @nacrus
    @nacrus 3 роки тому +2

    rhythm games should explain gameplay terms for ex. jacks or streaming to make new players understand what is going on in the game and how specific patterns should be played. Osu! gameplay tutorial is a good example. I don't know if other rhythm games have gameplay tutorials.

    • @taggerung_
      @taggerung_ 3 роки тому +1

      Pattern names are almost always developed and created by communities. This is why you wont see ingame explanations for patterns or related gameplay termonology

    • @nacrus
      @nacrus 3 роки тому

      @@taggerung_ Oh, I see

  • @KazonYT
    @KazonYT 4 роки тому

    Loved the video dude! Definitely showing this to my project diva discord. Keep up the good content!

  • @brandenblomberg3048
    @brandenblomberg3048 3 роки тому

    Ngl I’m fairly comfortable and used to GH/CH coming from the top down at this point and it would be hard to adjust on the fly if given a down to up option. It’s possible it would trip up some of the top players, or perhaps they’ll play even better with it like that.

  • @scarefish6689
    @scarefish6689 7 місяців тому

    Rock Band does not have one timing w8bdow. It has a dynamic timing window. The timing varies depending on note density

  • @dlol.
    @dlol. 4 роки тому

    Osu lazer now has adjustable ratemods!
    Also timing windows are adjustable for each map in osu!

  • @dantedeloden
    @dantedeloden 4 роки тому

    the scrolling down really got to me, having been a stepmania player since 2002, every rhythm game scrolls down whereas stepmania being the original DDR clone scrolled upwards like DDR. besides deemo and osu i havent really gotten into any rhythm games because of it.

  • @josh54
    @josh54 4 роки тому +6

    off topic: I've been playing ddr a good portion of my life but i can't grasp how people could read charts like this 3:28

    • @CodeMarbles
      @CodeMarbles 4 роки тому +1

      training eye speed + hand speed, takes a long time but goes a long way, basically.

  • @Dystxnn
    @Dystxnn 4 роки тому

    The O2Jam note spam is real! The player on that vid is probably Genesis or Sern888

  • @SylvainHunter
    @SylvainHunter 4 роки тому +1

    From what I understand, rush has been removed from Pump It Up because licensing agreements for songs (mostly kpop) would not allow any modification to be made to the song audio. Rate mods distort the music and make it sound worse and music publishers don't appreciate it.

  • @AshROAosu
    @AshROAosu 3 роки тому

    I think there are a lot of factors of any particular rhythm game that can completely nullify certain aspects of things mentioned here. For example, I am an osu player and when note size was something that you said was to be consistent, osu completely nulls that as circle size variation is core aspect of the game (as you mentioned). I feel like almost all of these aspects you talked about can be made an exception in various due to the way the rhythm game functions. That said, I still think all of these are very good points but I would also say that these things should be considered with the game in mind as I think these "rules" could be better off broken for the game (like i said, like osu does with circle size, it adds a lot to the game). But overall, I think this still a good perspective on it but it is hard to give advice across all rhythm games because of the fact that how each rhythm game functions can be a night and day difference. Still a great video though. I like how you presented it and that you did mention that these are not a Bible of rules that you absolutely have to follow to make a solid rhythm game

  • @QuakeGamerROTMG
    @QuakeGamerROTMG 2 роки тому +1

    And the number one rule: Don't have constant HP drain for no reason punishing you for the song itself having a quiet moment
    Seriously Osu, why did you think that is ok?

  • @funstuffies822
    @funstuffies822 4 роки тому

    I actually have a friend who learned to play StepMania with downward scroll and can't properly play with upward scroll like I do. That's the beauty of having mods in a rhythm game.

  • @marcoschiavone9169
    @marcoschiavone9169 4 роки тому

    In osu lazer, the new version in developement there are 2 mods called wind up and wind down witch spee up or slow down the song gradually till the end of the song.

  • @-storm7-969
    @-storm7-969 4 роки тому

    i think the main reason why osu taiko doesn't allow speed modifiers is because of the HD and HR mods?
    the whole point of HD is to present a reading challenge, so that players of different skills would benefit from different SV/BPM. Adding a speed modifier defeats the whole process of learning low BPM HD. It's like being able to tweak the AR on osu std and still have your scores ranked.
    for HR the point is to make the SV quicker(along with narrowing the hit windows) so it also presents a reading challenge, about how quickly you could read(although with a bigger focus on the accuracy windows).
    and the original Taiko no Tatsujin does provide simple speed changes, without any mods such as HD or HR.

  • @NunoVH
    @NunoVH 4 роки тому +3

    I know there are a billion different rhythm games, but I'd love to see you include some Beat Saber, Pistol Whip, or Spin Rhythm footage in the future.