Loading 1860 Pietta - Part 2 - No Lube or Wads
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2024
- Loading and shooting the Pietta 1860 Army Dry...No Lube or Wads. Generally known as the most traditional loading method. We know black powder was used then, but was it close or the same as what we use now? If the same, then I figure Wild Bill was pretty lucky to take Tutt through the heart at 75 yards. (Yes, his gun was a 36, probably with gain twist).. And yes, he could have been using conicals, which I've had even worse luck with.
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The recommendations for ball size on these revolvers has changed a lot since I started shooting. In the 70's the Dixie gun works catalog recommendations for .36 caliber was .367 to 376 nowadays we get as high as. 380. The .44's have less of a spread with most listings being .451 to .454 with .457 on the Ruger old army. I really like your style of testing.
Thumbs up video ~John
Interesting that the later shots are all of higher velocity? I suppose that is due to the resistance of the fowling giving a higher pressure. I do not think Colt advised the use of lube back then, probably because it was not expected anyone to shoot more than one chamber of projectiles without having to stop and clean, it is only today when we are using these for recreation purposes that we shoot multiple chambers of shots, so we need lube to keep things moving, I now use Ballistol when cleaning, I find it works very well and there is no corrosion problem, the use old use of "washing up liquid" causes corrosion due to there being salt added to the liquid to give it a thicker consistency, house wives thinking the thicker the liquid, the better value they get. An excellent test report! Chris B.
Right! I figured that especially new shooters that spend an hour to get to a shooting range might want to take a bucket of water along if they're going to shoot more than a couple cylinders. There are exceptions of course. At risk of repeating myself, I think there's a good chance that the powder then was more moist burning. Ned Roberts talks about it in his book and when I think about battles like those in the Civil War. Muskets. I stuck a minnie after 3 or 4 shots and had to get a steel rod and hammer it down to the powder. I've read that the notches in the minnie were designed to clean the fouling when loading it down. Don't think that would work with modern powder. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Ha Ha! Hammering down the bore is something we all get now and then. I do remember many years back, (about 60), that I had a batch of very old black powder dating back to the Crimea war, using it I was surprised how much "wet" gunk was left in the barrel, with modern made powders I find the residue is extremely dry and hard, so that is part of our problem, also velocities were higher in "original" powders, higher even than Swiss, this causes a noticeable problem in Black powder double rifles as they will not achieve sufficient velocity to regulate, as they must have done when new, the problem being with BP Cartridge rifles you cannot just put more in due to solid head cases in part, (but few English double cartridges used folded head type anyway), the only way of increasing velocity is by dropping in a % of smokeless, which also make for a cleaner burn. Take care! Chris B.
@@453421abcdefg12345 Again great information Chris. Very happy to hear about your experience with older powder. Without that, folks in a musket battle would either need to clean, or go home. Neither is it good option if they start tripping over each other, or using up their drinking supplies. O.R.
First Time Commenting. Love all that you do. I do have a Question though. In one of the parts in this series, Lube over the ball shot the best, no doubt.
Noticing the front sight was changed, did you sight this gun in with the lube over the ball?? The wad in my opinion makes for a longer projectile and adds some weight to the overall projectile, all be it very small. Thank you.
Yes, that fellow was sighted for that load using lube. That idea of yours about additional mass may be the missing link to what has also been puzzling me too. If I had just shot one target that way, well you know all too well that ain’t worth diddle squat. I like the information you put on your channel, and the way you go about tests. Because of you and Jake, I had more fun two summers ago with my DIY powder than I’ve had since I was a kid. Then a found a formula for BP (probably an encyclopedia at school when I was supposed to be doing something else), small town, local drug store had salt peter and sulfur, but no charcoal. Anyway mixed up maybe a teaspoon, (seems like here it’s always winter), put cardboard under it to protect kitchen table. Yup, nobody home so I touched it off. Burnt 🥵 slow, right through the cardboard. Made a dish shaped hole, with no way to conceal it. I had to look into that hole at every meal till I got out of school. I never thought it would be possible to make something that worked till I saw what you and Jake and others were doing. A big thanks to you and UA-cam. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I will be doing a video soon mentioning how you sight the revolver in is how it most likely will shoot the best. I also manufacture Indian Love Flutes, If I tune the Flute, say at 80 deg. that is the best it will play. It will sound poorly until it reaches the temp it was tuned at. I tend to think the same applies when sighting in these revolvers. Thank you for your response. Kind Regards Michael
@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 Thanks Michael. I’m starting to think along those lines, especially with the lube. Temperature can make quite a difference. Something that you might be interested in is the idea that the powder of old may have been considerably different when it comes to fouling then what is available today. I have some evidence I believe that points in that direction. If you think that might be interesting, I would do a short video on it. I could put a link in a comment to you, that way it wouldn’t be quite as public. I’d like to see what you think about it, as you and others have experimented with the DIY stuff. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Please do a video on the subject. To your point on temperature. I am of the opinion temperature will affect your bbl, as you well know metal does expand in the sun if it is laid down not standing up right. I greatly appreciated you checking the bbl temp. I tend to sight my revolvers in the shade, when I carry in the field they are holstered and out of the direct sun light, if I do have to draw down on a rattler I know there is no expansion of the bbl, just my opinion, for I do not Carrie a temp gauge in the field. LOL. As far as powder of old It's hard to state as to quality of components. I tend to think a lot of fouling today (I have no proof) is related to the graphite, I should look to see what temp graphite completely burns up at. You may have notice after many cylinders shot, I have showed how clean my bbls are, is it related to, no graphite or better quality components? Is the fouling we talk about keeping it soft really the powder or the graphite?? Was the graphite of old sub par?? I would love to know that. In my opinion todays quality control is much better. I tend to think under the circumstances of non stop wars since the invention of the gun , (add any if I forget) F&I, Rev, American Spanish ,Civil, Indian wars, and all around general lawlessness, I have to ask if the Dupont family really had the time to produce quality Powder. I have read the English did not like French Gun Powder Because their poop was no good. LOL. FYI I'm no expert on the subject Just a hobbyist. Thank You for your Time. Kind Regards Michael
@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 Great, it’s on the list, and the best part is that I won’t have to wait another 5 months for summer. I usually don’t do much shooting till June. That’s very interesting about your barrels being pretty clean. I’m going to try some DIY in my long guns. It would seem that something could be different without the graphite. The book titled The muzzleloading caplock rifle by Ned Roberts is almost a must for black powder shooters, lots of great info. Will keep in touch, stay safe. O.R.
Never used one of those bench loader things but my buddy does... If I did I might put a short section of pipe on it for leverage.
Before I used to load using an upright stand to support the pistol so I had both hands free. Rotating the cylinder, putting powder and sometimes not pushing the ball far enough down (you probably know what happens then), all went by-by using the cylinder loader. There is a disadvantage in taking out and returning the cylinder, but having used both, I haven’t went back to loading in the gun. Maybe partially because I have a pretty good spot to load and don’t have to “reset” each shooting session. I sure give a 👍to the pipe plan. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yeah... neither of us are getting any younger LOL I mostly load paper cartridges these days.. would love to see you do a vid on paper vs loose powder and ball. When I load loose powder I do it on the gun. I pretty much follow my centerfire loading technique .. that being... one step at a time and every step visible. for centerifire that means powder in one case then right away a bullet on and seated/crimped. No loading blocks and flashlights or whatever. For the bp revolvers it means powder then a white or yellow wad then rotate to press it home leaving the loading lever down (cyl won't turn) and the next cyl in line to get powder and a wad. When all the cylinders show yellow? Time for the ball. On the little 1849 pocket I actually did use a short section of tubing that I had that day from a jack of all things. I really liked your idea of the grease gun so I stole it! but me being me... I made a slight change (hard to believe huh?) what I got was a bicycle oiler (I think they are called) it is like a small grease gun.about 5-6 inches tall. had to cut and drill the orifice a bit but it works great and fits in the fishing tackle boxes I use for each bp revolver. I can keep it in the fridge till I go out shooting so no melted mess like bore butter tends to do here in the summer.
Any modern versions of this gun that take cartridges?
Well, sort of. There’s what called conversion cylinders that replace the percussion cylinder and then can shoot the 45 Colt cartridge, but it must be not a maximum type load. They are available from suppliers like Midway U.S.A., Taylor and Company, and others. They are a bit spendy. Also available are ready made conversions of this style. Cimarron Firearms, handguns, conversions. Taylor also has them I believe. Lots of videos on conversions. O.R.