The part that pisses me off the most is NASCAR actually praised the format. So, as long as they think this is entertaining and it continues bringing the money in they're not gonna change a thing.
I can almost guarantee it has something to do with tv deals. I wonder if tv stations forced a “playoff” type format onto nascar to try to drive ratings and compete with other sports
I feel like people are missing a bigger story unfolding - this kind of manipulation where teams are under direct orders from Chevy/Ford/Toyota reps to effectively throw races if the situation calls for it, could violate match fixing laws in the US. Especially as you're asking people to gamble on races in good faith that every driver is trying to win. Let's put it this way - if a conversation was leaked between Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys) and Stan Kronke (LA Rams) where the Cowboys were asked to throw a game so the Rams could make the playoffs, people would be going to jail.
You have put so well into words something which has been bothering me more and more through the years. Beyond this sort of “match fixing,” I would think that referees whose stated goal is “entertainment” and not solely fairness and ensuring an even field might preclude that sport from being bet on. I mean surely some bets are made somewhere over the outcome of WWE wrestling matches, but no one would consider that “sports betting,” right?
@@b.w.22if we all know that someone is going to win a match or a race, then why should we bet on another one winning? NASCAR play-offs feel like as if it's kayfabe which NASCAR and its TV partners try to make us believe that it's real. And I'm saying this as a somewhat newer fan who doesn't know everything too much
I'm curious if you have a source for that. I don't know that your wrong but all the instances that I know of in which legal action was taken (or at least investigated by law enforcement) against someone for match fixing, the match fixing was done for betting purposes. Is match fixing for non-gambling purposes illegal? I did do a very quick Google search to see what came up and couldn't find anything talking about it.
True. The aura of celebration was never really felt "big" as the entire pit was literally shouting and screaming over the entire Barricade Squad shenanigan. Blaney put on one hell of a charge and dare I say - entertainment - during those closing 80-ish laps, but all the booth, team radios, and camera shots quickly switched to the Barricade Squad. In a way, it was a blessing in disguise for the fans that the entire media quickly switched to that shit show as they inadvertently showcased just how exploitative the system is.
@@lukmaanpratomo6866 Yeah, the race was beautiful at the front. Nascar and Goodyear finally found a tire and package that can put on a good show at Martinsville in this car, and it got ruined by bullshit. Bell and Byron both deserved disqualifications, and the 1, 3, and 23 should all be parked next week.
The worst part is the media coverage tries to make the playoffs the "entertainment" and not the actual racing itaelf. The booth talks more about the playoffs now than the actual race. Totally ridiculous. This system was dumb in 2014 and slightly less dumb with playoff points. A default game 7 moment doesn't make a championship fight "entertaining" it just makes it less legitimate.
I think this is such a good point, that the focus has been taken even from winning races, the thing that was of singular importance to teams in the past.
No, the current regular season points system is better than the Winston cup points system, 185 points for 1st is way too much, should be no more than 40 points for a win, a season long one point per position system with single bonus points for winning stages and qualifying on pole, this would award the most consistent drivers for entire season
@edruggiero1648 not by much, theres a reason they scrapped that system, it awards drivers for playing it safe and not driving at 100%, the less points the better, having 1 points per position would force all drivers to drive at 100%, make it so the higher you finish in points at the end of season the more money you get
The one part of this that I hate more than anything is the fact that Logano, Reddick and Blaney are below the cutline without wins and they are contending for a title instead of guys like Larson and Bell, who’ve been good all year. THAT is the true issue with this system.
There's also the fact that one of the worst active drivers gets a lucky win and is immediately put into the playoffs despite having been damn near last place in points, when countless other drivers deserved that spot way more.
@ And they will argue that the playoffs were exciting, despite the fact that the first two rounds were just busy work, getting rid of everyone who we knew was going to be eliminated. Meanwhile, there’s five people in contention for the title in the Winston Format and Larson, Bell and Elliott are contending in the non-playoff standings, who are deserving of it due to their consistency.
We didn’t know how good we had it with the 10 driver OG Chase for the Cup of 2004-2011 where wins did not automatically guarantee Chase spots Tony Stewart vs Carl Edwards feels like a lifetime ago
But unfortunately the 2011 tiebreaker with Edwards and Stewart made NASCAR think "hey, if this can happen with 2 drivers, then how about we make it 16, then 12, then 8, and 4?"
i don't like team orders, but maybe you should see the F1 global ratings compared to stock car, sports car, and V8. millions of people have no issue with F1 so shouldn't we want to be redneck F1? I don't, but many people around the world either don't care or just deal with it.
@willgriffin5647 and the ratings would be even better if team orders weren't a thing. F1 is a global sport, NASCAR is regional trying to compare the two ratings wise is a very silly thing.
If Nascar is so obsessed with a Game 7 format then make it like the ending of Cars where only the contenders are on track, but the moment you put others out there you'll never take away manipulation.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Finally a media personality who said the very thing I've been saying since 2017, the networks, sponsors, and manufacturers have this grip on NASCAR I've never seen before and they've sucked the legitimacy out of NASCAR
The biggest problem is that NASCAR’s incompetence reflects an entire motorsport industry, especially pavement, short track racing. I’m involved in a local short track team and have an equity position in a local race team. When NASCAR is doing well with benefit because of more interest at the grass roots level. When incompetence and utter hubris by NASCAR is shown in time and time again it moves people away from the entire motorsport industry, which directly impact the local levels at a greater percentage than NASCAR will see
Simple and effective. But the problem is, now, the casual average fan does not have a clue as to what real racing is. They've only known the contrived and heavily manufactured races and finishes.
@craigstephenson7676 I understood why they were mad the race at Watkins Glen was a stinker. But that was the fault of the car and not so much because the race lacked mandatory cautions. And sometimes, races just end up like that sometimes. NASCAR fans have been gaslit to believe what we have now is real racing, which it isn't. It's more akin to WWE than it is to a Motorsport.
@@samharris3508 yeah but the Indy RC and COTA that year were decent (COTA was great until the OT shenanigans) and as soon as they brought back stage cautions they made that Charlotte roval race worse.
Bubba either actually had a flat tire, or is REALLY good at faking it, because he was almost out of control the last two laps. The 3 and 1 are blatant as hell and impossible to ignore.
Fun fact: The old NASCAR points system and a Euro Soccer league (Premier?) had the best way to determine a true champion. Total reliance on a fair regular season. The soccer league created in season tournaments to counter a run away champion.
That dam of legitimacy has burst so bad the town (sport) of NASCAR is being completely swept away and the mayor (Jim France) is saying nothing is wrong
If i had a nickel for every time NASCAR lost control of Round 8, i’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice. Yes i still remember when the 2015 round of 8 i think all three races have some controversy. Also, i would bet that Joey Logano is gonna be the champion, because “the history doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes”
They really have lost control. If yesterday isn’t the straw that breaks the camel’s back in regards to this format being abolished, then I don’t know what is.
NASCAR needs to go back to a season long points system. Any form of “playoffs” opens up every race in that set of races for the same thing that just happened. My idea for season long points is this: a win is 150 points, 2nd place is 120, 3rd gets 110, 4th gets 90 points, and 5th gets 80 points. 6th place gets 60 points and every place down to 10th is minus 5 points. 11th place gets 30 points and every place after that is minus 1 point. Lead the most laps: 4 points; lead 5 laps not under caution: 2 points, but this is only earned once; earn the pole: 5 points; outside pole: 3 points; start on the pole and lead every lap: 15 points; repeat winner if same race from previous year: 5 points. A race winner can potentially earn 170 points per race. Rewards driver consistency in earning top 10s and wins.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, yesterday's race makes the F1 season finale from Abu Dhabi from 2021 (the most controversial F1 race of all time in my view, though "Crashgate", the 2005 US GP & the Austrian GP of 2002 is right up there) look like child's play. It is absolutely embarrassing for NASCAR to allow something like this to happen. Things like this are also the main reason why F1 & Indycar will never implement the playoffs to determine their champions, though Indycar lately has been trying to be like NASCAR in the way they do things (ex: implementing the charter system).
Eric Brought up a good point, this behavior isnt brand new, it's been ongoing for so long, and these arent the only teams that have done some spotty stuff and NOT gotten penalized for it. Eric brought up the roval race, where someone (i forget the details watch his vid) refused to pass, with some damming radio evidence, but they were not penalized. This is just the meta and there hasn't been any strength against it. Nascar needs to let this one go, but edit this whole stupid format and rulset for next year
The Roval race was Cole Custer - 2 years ago. He & SHR were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points, & $100,000. The one that wasn't was penalized was Eric Jones being told not to pass Denny Hamlin, 4 years ago. I thought that should have been a penalty too. Ironically, that was at Martinsville!
Putting in Larson doesn’t change things. Chevy didn’t make a wall to get Byron in, they made a wall to get a Chevy in. If you put any Chevy in the final 4, then you’re not punishing the OEM, they got what they wanted out of the situation.
lol then we would say out Denny Hamlin in instead, but he’s also a Toyota, so put chase Elliot in, wait he’s also a Chevy. So in conclusion, have a 3 driver chanpionship
@@jermaineboyd6594 who?? include a Denny or Larson. Two drivers from the teams they just got done punishing. If nascar wants to send a message obviously don’t do that
I hope Sawyer is just being a PR puppet for the France family & he doesn't actually believe this nonsense that comes out of his mouth. "the fans enjoy the playoffs." WHO? 90% of the fans hate it. the amount of games being played from both Chevy & Toyota on the last lap is enough proof this is not a legit way to crown a champ. I hated the OG 10 race chase for the cup but even that is better than these BS gimmicks. the NASCAR playoff format is a joke. You had multiple cars creating a moving blockade for William Bryon and Bubba Wallace slowing up to give C Bell a spot. This isn't racing. Its a clown show.
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series. But Bring Back The Full-Season Points Format For Both The Xfinity Series And Truck Series And That's It.
Not even a Bell fan but easily one of the more talented drivers in the field. If they crowned their champion like they used to, like every other Motorsport, Bell would easily be a top driver every year
Personally, I've reached a breaking point with this sport. Unless something changes in the off season, I'm going to boycott NASCAR. There have just been so many issues this year that completely get in the way of what I would consider to be the bet year racing we have had in the modern era. All the BS that has gone on this year has ruined my enjoyment of the sport, and there's no point in me watching something I do not enjoy.
Agree with this 100%. I had no dog in that fight yesterday whatsoever... I was just watching a decent race until it became evident what was going on in those final laps. On top of everything else, Keselowski would normally have moved one of them in front of him, but I'm sure he didn't want to cause a yellow with Blaney in position to win. I'm done with NASCAR for now. It's become a waste of time. Until things change, I'll find something else to do.
This doesn’t have anything to do with the video, but the next gen nascars have been added to Forza Motorsport 8, you should check it out. Nice to see NASCARS in a game again.
Like when RCR or Hendrick would enter additional cars to make sure the 3 or the 24 wouldn't finish last? This has been going for longer than the playoffs.
By citing Bell's move as a "safety" violation, JGR can't fight back and NASCAR can ignore the glaring manipulation of the finishing order by HMS and Chevy and pretend it never happened. 23XI tried to counter, guilty, but a response to what was happening. Bubba's CC saw it. This is a joke. Shouldn't happen either way. Agree DQ both
A Few Thoughts: First, if this manipulation goes unchecked, how can anyone legitimately trust NASCAR sports betting? Secondly, if the actions of select Chevy and Toyota teams create a negative perception of NASCAR among fans and media, how does this not devalue the charter of Ford teams that played by the rules? Could this lead to further litigation down the road?
Wow! Thanks for posting this extensive audio from the different teams. In the short term I agree with many that both the 20 and 24 should be dq’d from the championship and Larson should be in. For the longer term very costly penalties should be levied and an expulsion of some collaborators may be appropriate. It’s been done before.
Sell the sport. That’s the call NASCAR should make. Pool a few billion dollars together and buy them out once and for all. Then fire everyone in the front office. Downsize for a few years and rebuild the sport, its fanbase, and its legitimacy.
Problem is the Frances don't want to sell it...and who would buy it?! Would anyone see money in it with everyone involved disgruntled and a fan base that's NOT happy with what it's become!?
A couple of sort of unrelated things: -Denny Hamlin choke streak continues. Let's stop calling him a villain and keep calling him what he actually is; a choke artist -This has been an embarrassing year for RCR & especially Austin Dillion with all of his controversies. He should really call it a career now and get that promised management job.
There's another Austin who would probably drive that car better, hopefully RCR brings back the 31 and with Theresa not owning the 8 font anymore put that font on Kyle's car instead of that font on there now.
1. Shorten the season overall. 20 race regular season, 10 race chase 2. Keep the current points system with playoff points and stage wins, but use that purely for seeding for the final ten races once they start. No win and you're in but you could still reward a regular season champion 3. The chase/playoff/whatever field goes back to 10 instead of 16 4. Since you're using the playoff points and stage wins purely as seeding for the final 10 races, once those races start the playoff points and stage wins only count for the owners title 5. Once you have that field of 10, most points over the final ten races is the champion It's really not complicated
I was thonking about divide in two championships campaings inside the season (three counting the new tournament on mid-season). •One with the Regular and Classic acumulative points system that we have until 2003. •Another with mantaining the final 10 race playoffs with a new qualification: *Qualify the 10 best qualified on points at the 26 first races. *The other six will be defined by victories (breaking ties with their stages wins and position in the championship). *Keeping the stage and P/O points.
They should disqualify Byron from the Championship 4 and either just have a Championship 3 or move up Larson. They also need to get rid of the playoffs and have a season long championship. Since the same drivers race against each other every week, they don't need a playoff.
NASCAR needs the following: 1) The Latford Winston Cup format back with the 2007-2010 points format. (Instead of 175 points for a win before bonus points, 185 before bonus points.) With this, bring back bonus points with the following: - 5 points for leading a lap - 5 points for leading the most laps - 5 points for the pole sitter on qualifying day - 5 points for the fastest lap of the race - 5 points for the fastest 4-tire pit stop of the race Even keep stage racing around in its current form in terms of the points; just fet rid of the stage cautions. 2) Get rid of the Charter system and bring back the top-35 in owners points rule. 3) Bring back 43 car fields. 4) New sponsors to come in, or bring back old ones. 5) This is out of NASCAR's hands, but they also need a better economy. The final 4 should be Larson, Bell, Reddick, and either Chase Elliott or William Byron. Logano and Blaney should both not be in contention.
6 годин тому
I already made a suggestion in another video. Divide the 36 races of the season into 12 rounds of three races each and give the 10 best drivers points after each round according to the scheme (22-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1) plus one bonus point for each individual race win and possibly additional bonus points for the fastest race lap or most laps in the lead or stage wins. Within a round, the points + stage points are applied according to the current scheme. If you want to make it more exciting, you can double the number of points in the last round of the season or increase the bonus points for race wins in the last round.
I'll say this until NASCAR finally does something about this. 2004-06 format or no chase at all I'll take!!! This is just ridiculous of what NASCAR has become nowadays
This is my opinion! I am a Ryan Blaney fan I am happy he won the championship last year! I have a Blaney championship t-shirt! Do I respect his championship last year more than the drivers that won the championship pre- 2004 NO!! I WANT RYAN TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR! Would I be mad if he did not well I guess a little bit! I just think this playoff championship format since 2004 is is silly
How I would Make NASCAR More Legit if I Were President 1. Get Rid of the Playoffs and introduce a new Points Format that is full-season 2. Give Race Control to Artificial Intelligence. This is the only way officiating will be fixed, debate a wall 3. Fire Phelps, ODonnell and Sawyer in exchange for Guys who actually know NASCAR as an Organization and run it as Racers and businessmen 4. Put the Racing back into the Driver’s Hands with Big Motor/Small Blade 5. Bring Back “Run what you Brung”
They should have given the spot to Bell. Both sides Cheated and HMS just couldn't cheat better. If both get DQ'd you either put in another HMS or JGR car.
I have said it for years that the playoffs aren't helping the sport. And I agree that the best points system should be a more top loaded one. Each position is 1 point, Top 10s are 2, top 5s 3 and wins are 10. And No playoffs. Maybe make Crown Jewel Races, Daytona 500, Coke 600, Brickyard 400, Bristol night, and Southern 500 be double points races too
First off I am 100% biased because I am a dirt guy over NASCAR, but honestly the Lucas Oil Late Model series has the right style of “playoff/chase” format. It doesn’t come down to 1 race. It’s split into a 3 weekend final 4. If NASCAR adapts something like that the product could be significantly better
I like the idea of a season long title. Time has shown it’s hard to have a “bracket system” format like what’s been implemented throughout the years. A season long title I think would be more fair and harder to manipulate.
Absolutely, because the original chase from 2004-2010 despite having a points reset, had somewhat normal battles without the interference of playoff points, stages or round point resets, or that 1 race championship crap that turns the final race into the finale from Cars
Bell gassed it up....pure and simple. Had he treated it like the usual wall scrape...which we've all seen many times in racing...he wouldn't have been penalized...but then, he also wouldn't have gained the necessary spots to pass Byron in points. He rode the wall to gain positions. After Hail Melon, NASCAR was very clear about that....don't do it. He gassed it up. He knew it. And he got caught.
No UA-camr should make a "playoff prediction video" next year. It needs to be made clear to Nascar, sponsors, and Media execs that people don't care about the championship anymore. Instead do a series of race winner prediction videos. Do like 4 or 5 races at a time.
I can’t wait until Sunday when we get to see 75 cameras, chase four cars and see absolutely nobody else, because drama that is as real as total drama Island. Maybe if they stop trying to compete with sports that are just going to be doing better than them no matter what they do, they could actually get a niche. And who knows, maybe that niche won’t be just eaten by Formula One
If winning means so much then why isn't Larson who won 6 times in the final 4? Also to the other point kick the 24 and 20 out for race manipulation and give it to Larson.. im not a Larson fan but it's what's right
What do you think the call NASCAR should have made?
Yes
-Suspend the 1, 3, 20, 23, and 24 cheifs
-Penize the 1, 3 and 23 50 points
-DSQ the 20 and the 24.
Suspend everyone involved, And add Larson in.
DQ the 20 and the 24. Penalize the 23, the 1, and the 3. Even though I hate Kyle Larson, but he should be in over Bell and Byron.
all penalized 50 points
The part that pisses me off the most is NASCAR actually praised the format. So, as long as they think this is entertaining and it continues bringing the money in they're not gonna change a thing.
I can almost guarantee it has something to do with tv deals. I wonder if tv stations forced a “playoff” type format onto nascar to try to drive ratings and compete with other sports
@@essayegg6990as I recall it was Nextel & NBC that forced the issue 20 years ago
They'll just take all the money from the contract. That's what NASCAR has proven to do for 25 years now
Only way to make NASCAR listen is to boycott the sport.
@@TheCloudCreationI am not watching the cup race in Phoenix.
The playoff legitimacy dam has bursted in a way Toby & the Flood could only dream of.
A T&F episode reference? Not what I was expecting
Saw your comment on Denny delivers video lol
the baked bean floodwater won't stop
Goated comment actually
@@cykablyatman6242 It was more likely Tomato Soup
I feel like people are missing a bigger story unfolding - this kind of manipulation where teams are under direct orders from Chevy/Ford/Toyota reps to effectively throw races if the situation calls for it, could violate match fixing laws in the US. Especially as you're asking people to gamble on races in good faith that every driver is trying to win.
Let's put it this way - if a conversation was leaked between Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys) and Stan Kronke (LA Rams) where the Cowboys were asked to throw a game so the Rams could make the playoffs, people would be going to jail.
...✅🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁
You have put so well into words something which has been bothering me more and more through the years. Beyond this sort of “match fixing,” I would think that referees whose stated goal is “entertainment” and not solely fairness and ensuring an even field might preclude that sport from being bet on. I mean surely some bets are made somewhere over the outcome of WWE wrestling matches, but no one would consider that “sports betting,” right?
@@b.w.22if we all know that someone is going to win a match or a race, then why should we bet on another one winning? NASCAR play-offs feel like as if it's kayfabe which NASCAR and its TV partners try to make us believe that it's real. And I'm saying this as a somewhat newer fan who doesn't know everything too much
I'm curious if you have a source for that. I don't know that your wrong but all the instances that I know of in which legal action was taken (or at least investigated by law enforcement) against someone for match fixing, the match fixing was done for betting purposes. Is match fixing for non-gambling purposes illegal? I did do a very quick Google search to see what came up and couldn't find anything talking about it.
I think it’s finally time for the playoffs to go if yesterday’s shenanigans aren’t enough to get rid of it idk what will at this point
Poor Ryan Blaney’s impressive performance gets overshadowed by this mess. 😡
True. The aura of celebration was never really felt "big" as the entire pit was literally shouting and screaming over the entire Barricade Squad shenanigan.
Blaney put on one hell of a charge and dare I say - entertainment - during those closing 80-ish laps, but all the booth, team radios, and camera shots quickly switched to the Barricade Squad.
In a way, it was a blessing in disguise for the fans that the entire media quickly switched to that shit show as they inadvertently showcased just how exploitative the system is.
@@lukmaanpratomo6866 Yeah, the race was beautiful at the front. Nascar and Goodyear finally found a tire and package that can put on a good show at Martinsville in this car, and it got ruined by bullshit. Bell and Byron both deserved disqualifications, and the 1, 3, and 23 should all be parked next week.
The worst part is the media coverage tries to make the playoffs the "entertainment" and not the actual racing itaelf. The booth talks more about the playoffs now than the actual race. Totally ridiculous. This system was dumb in 2014 and slightly less dumb with playoff points. A default game 7 moment doesn't make a championship fight "entertaining" it just makes it less legitimate.
I think this is such a good point, that the focus has been taken even from winning races, the thing that was of singular importance to teams in the past.
MAKE THE WINSTON CUP POINTS SYSTEM GREAT AGAIN!!! SPREAD THE WORD!!!
No one wants -400 point leads and don’t even have to run last 2 races , locked up
@@SpreadAUstill better than this
@@SpreadAU there are currently 4 drivers within 100 points of 1st in the Winston Cup system
No, the current regular season points system is better than the Winston cup points system, 185 points for 1st is way too much, should be no more than 40 points for a win, a season long one point per position system with single bonus points for winning stages and qualifying on pole, this would award the most consistent drivers for entire season
@edruggiero1648 not by much, theres a reason they scrapped that system, it awards drivers for playing it safe and not driving at 100%, the less points the better, having 1 points per position would force all drivers to drive at 100%, make it so the higher you finish in points at the end of season the more money you get
The one part of this that I hate more than anything is the fact that Logano, Reddick and Blaney are below the cutline without wins and they are contending for a title instead of guys like Larson and Bell, who’ve been good all year. THAT is the true issue with this system.
There's also the fact that one of the worst active drivers gets a lucky win and is immediately put into the playoffs despite having been damn near last place in points, when countless other drivers deserved that spot way more.
@ And they will argue that the playoffs were exciting, despite the fact that the first two rounds were just busy work, getting rid of everyone who we knew was going to be eliminated. Meanwhile, there’s five people in contention for the title in the Winston Format and Larson, Bell and Elliott are contending in the non-playoff standings, who are deserving of it due to their consistency.
It's glaring this year with Larson and his 6 wins. It was as bright as the sun in 2020 with Harvick and his 9 wins. This whole thing is a joke.
In all fairness to Reddick he's actually been one of the best drivers through the vast majority of the season, same with Byron (kind of).
@@whoasked9500replace “best” with “luckiest”. All his wins were on strategy, wreckfests.
We didn’t know how good we had it with the 10 driver OG Chase for the Cup of 2004-2011 where wins did not automatically guarantee Chase spots
Tony Stewart vs Carl Edwards feels like a lifetime ago
The ten driver chase was only '04-'06. '07-'10 had the top twelve in points, and '11-'13 had the wildcard mess.
As Ronald Reagan says, “Christopher Bell, tear down this wall”.
He didn't say that, though
@@Atrail_Mckinley4786he did I was there
@@Atrail_Mckinley4786Yes he did, I was also there
F Toyota. USA
Nobody ever wanted playoffs. I’m so lost on that.
But unfortunately the 2011 tiebreaker with Edwards and Stewart made NASCAR think "hey, if this can happen with 2 drivers, then how about we make it 16, then 12, then 8, and 4?"
I was in the pits for the race. It was a great race by Martinsville standards, but the ending left such a bad taste in my mouth. 🤮
nascar died with the playoffs, not with dale
✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️
500% facts
For me it died with the Gen 7 car, I HATE HATE HATE playoffs, but I HATE HATE HATE Gen 7 1,000× more!
Dale would never have let the playoffs happen.
@@spartan5713 i know 😫
Went to a Nascar race and a Formula 1 race broke out.
Underrated af😂
i don't like team orders, but maybe you should see the F1 global ratings compared to stock car, sports car, and V8. millions of people have no issue with F1 so shouldn't we want to be redneck F1? I don't, but many people around the world either don't care or just deal with it.
@willgriffin5647 and the ratings would be even better if team orders weren't a thing. F1 is a global sport, NASCAR is regional trying to compare the two ratings wise is a very silly thing.
If Nascar is so obsessed with a Game 7 format then make it like the ending of Cars where only the contenders are on track, but the moment you put others out there you'll never take away manipulation.
The person with the most points at the end of the year is the champion.
Brad K behind the #3 be like. "Move damnit!!!"
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Finally a media personality who said the very thing I've been saying since 2017, the networks, sponsors, and manufacturers have this grip on NASCAR I've never seen before and they've sucked the legitimacy out of NASCAR
They have lost control since 2004
Glaringly obvious problem... the playoffs suck.
The biggest problem is that NASCAR’s incompetence reflects an entire motorsport industry, especially pavement, short track racing. I’m involved in a local short track team and have an equity position in a local race team. When NASCAR is doing well with benefit because of more interest at the grass roots level. When incompetence and utter hubris by NASCAR is shown in time and time again it moves people away from the entire motorsport industry, which directly impact the local levels at a greater percentage than NASCAR will see
Here is a simple fix for next year: a full season points format without stage cautions.
Simple and effective. But the problem is, now, the casual average fan does not have a clue as to what real racing is. They've only known the contrived and heavily manufactured races and finishes.
100 percent!! Eliminate stages and the damn chase. I'm with Mark Martin-this is a sh*t show.
@@samharris3508 Yeah like when they removed stage cautions from road courses and people got mad that the races were clearly better.
@craigstephenson7676 I understood why they were mad the race at Watkins Glen was a stinker. But that was the fault of the car and not so much because the race lacked mandatory cautions.
And sometimes, races just end up like that sometimes. NASCAR fans have been gaslit to believe what we have now is real racing, which it isn't. It's more akin to WWE than it is to a Motorsport.
@@samharris3508 yeah but the Indy RC and COTA that year were decent (COTA was great until the OT shenanigans) and as soon as they brought back stage cautions they made that Charlotte roval race worse.
Bubba either actually had a flat tire, or is REALLY good at faking it, because he was almost out of control the last two laps. The 3 and 1 are blatant as hell and impossible to ignore.
I agree. That car *looked* like a handful.
Well... a format where a driver can win the 35 first races of the season and by losing the last one he would lose the championship can't be right.
Fun fact: The old NASCAR points system and a Euro Soccer league (Premier?) had the best way to determine a true champion. Total reliance on a fair regular season. The soccer league created in season tournaments to counter a run away champion.
That dam of legitimacy has burst so bad the town (sport) of NASCAR is being completely swept away and the mayor (Jim France) is saying nothing is wrong
If i had a nickel for every time NASCAR lost control of Round 8, i’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Yes i still remember when the 2015 round of 8 i think all three races have some controversy.
Also, i would bet that Joey Logano is gonna be the champion, because “the history doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes”
Good insight.
Honorable mention to the 2020 round of 8
AD’s radio literally made me fucking sick to my stomach
Why? It's been happening for years, you should be used to it.
They really have lost control. If yesterday isn’t the straw that breaks the camel’s back in regards to this format being abolished, then I don’t know what is.
Probably if Logano wins the title, who keep in mind, entered the playoffs 18th in regular season points
@@LarsDVDTimeYT then only made it to the round of 8 because Bowman got penalized
NASCAR needs to go back to a season long points system. Any form of “playoffs” opens up every race in that set of races for the same thing that just happened.
My idea for season long points is this: a win is 150 points, 2nd place is 120, 3rd gets 110, 4th gets 90 points, and 5th gets 80 points. 6th place gets 60 points and every place down to 10th is minus 5 points. 11th place gets 30 points and every place after that is minus 1 point. Lead the most laps: 4 points; lead 5 laps not under caution: 2 points, but this is only earned once; earn the pole: 5 points; outside pole: 3 points; start on the pole and lead every lap: 15 points; repeat winner if same race from previous year: 5 points. A race winner can potentially earn 170 points per race. Rewards driver consistency in earning top 10s and wins.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, yesterday's race makes the F1 season finale from Abu Dhabi from 2021 (the most controversial F1 race of all time in my view, though "Crashgate", the 2005 US GP & the Austrian GP of 2002 is right up there) look like child's play. It is absolutely embarrassing for NASCAR to allow something like this to happen. Things like this are also the main reason why F1 & Indycar will never implement the playoffs to determine their champions, though Indycar lately has been trying to be like NASCAR in the way they do things (ex: implementing the charter system).
Who owns the Indy car series, and who has benefited the last two years under NASCAR's point system.
Eric Brought up a good point, this behavior isnt brand new, it's been ongoing for so long, and these arent the only teams that have done some spotty stuff and NOT gotten penalized for it. Eric brought up the roval race, where someone (i forget the details watch his vid) refused to pass, with some damming radio evidence, but they were not penalized. This is just the meta and there hasn't been any strength against it. Nascar needs to let this one go, but edit this whole stupid format and rulset for next year
The Roval race was Cole Custer - 2 years ago. He & SHR were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points, & $100,000. The one that wasn't was penalized was Eric Jones being told not to pass Denny Hamlin, 4 years ago. I thought that should have been a penalty too. Ironically, that was at Martinsville!
NASCAR class action lawsuit for defrauding the public
Putting in Larson doesn’t change things. Chevy didn’t make a wall to get Byron in, they made a wall to get a Chevy in. If you put any Chevy in the final 4, then you’re not punishing the OEM, they got what they wanted out of the situation.
lol then we would say out Denny Hamlin in instead, but he’s also a Toyota, so put chase Elliot in, wait he’s also a Chevy. So in conclusion, have a 3 driver chanpionship
More fun watch Larson because he goes for it lol
@@RUSH240 some people have actually been saying three driver championship
@KenC4242 or extended a 5th driver I heard from a live reaction.
@@jermaineboyd6594 who?? include a Denny or Larson. Two drivers from the teams they just got done punishing. If nascar wants to send a message obviously don’t do that
I hope Sawyer is just being a PR puppet for the France family & he doesn't actually believe this nonsense that comes out of his mouth. "the fans enjoy the playoffs." WHO? 90% of the fans hate it. the amount of games being played from both Chevy & Toyota on the last lap is enough proof this is not a legit way to crown a champ. I hated the OG 10 race chase for the cup but even that is better than these BS gimmicks. the NASCAR playoff format is a joke. You had multiple cars creating a moving blockade for William Bryon and Bubba Wallace slowing up to give C Bell a spot. This isn't racing. Its a clown show.
This is why I plan leaving the sport after next week when Truex Jr. Retires but I'll hold out to January to see if they change the format.
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
Nascar's been fixed all year. Dillon and Crashtain should miss races
If Byron wins the championship the outrage will be even worse.
Very good chance he will to. Not a fan of him either but I can just see it happening.
Joey Logano too
But according to NASCAR, it will be worse with Reddick, as he is driving for a team that is suing them
@@LarsDVDTimeYT At this point, that's who I'm rooting for exactly for that reason.
@@t.hurson2298same here
THE PLAYOFFS HAVE GOT TO GO!
NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT!
The race was Great but the controversy overshadows it
Ask Michael Waltrip about team racing. They crucified him for doing this.
They put his team out of business
the chase starts at the daytona 500
but they have to fix that 'parachute spoiler' mess too
The officiating system is getting worse every year. They need to fire the manager of the officiating system.
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series.
But Bring Back The Full-Season Points Format For Both The Xfinity Series And Truck Series And That's It.
In the words of good ol Slapshoes: "Here is Nascar's dam of legitimacy and it busted open a long time ago"
As a Christopher bell fan I think that he should have made the final four. He is one of the most underrated and deserving driver in the cup series
Not even a Bell fan but easily one of the more talented drivers in the field. If they crowned their champion like they used to, like every other Motorsport, Bell would easily be a top driver every year
Talent wise, he's easily top 3, probably second behind Larson
Personally, I've reached a breaking point with this sport. Unless something changes in the off season, I'm going to boycott NASCAR. There have just been so many issues this year that completely get in the way of what I would consider to be the bet year racing we have had in the modern era. All the BS that has gone on this year has ruined my enjoyment of the sport, and there's no point in me watching something I do not enjoy.
Blaney was an absolute beast. As an Elliott fan it was a heart breaker.
As long as the playoff style point system exists, this kind of thing will stick around.
Agree with this 100%. I had no dog in that fight yesterday whatsoever... I was just watching a decent race until it became evident what was going on in those final laps. On top of everything else, Keselowski would normally have moved one of them in front of him, but I'm sure he didn't want to cause a yellow with Blaney in position to win. I'm done with NASCAR for now. It's become a waste of time. Until things change, I'll find something else to do.
I feel like they should disqualify them, but I feel like putting in Larson is not really a punishment. You’re still rewarding HMS for this!
Your title says it all, I agree they have lost all control. And people are gonna lose interest with that happening.
This doesn’t have anything to do with the video, but the next gen nascars have been added to Forza Motorsport 8, you should check it out. Nice to see NASCARS in a game again.
9:30 When he cusses, you know NASCAR F'ed up.
The problem is this playoff system it’s easy to manipulate 1 race than an entire season
Like when RCR or Hendrick would enter additional cars to make sure the 3 or the 24 wouldn't finish last? This has been going for longer than the playoffs.
If they want to put a greater emphasis on winning that's fine, but give full-season points with a massive boost for 1st vs 2nd
By citing Bell's move as a "safety" violation, JGR can't fight back and NASCAR can ignore the glaring manipulation of the finishing order by HMS and Chevy and pretend it never happened. 23XI tried to counter, guilty, but a response to what was happening. Bubba's CC saw it. This is a joke. Shouldn't happen either way. Agree DQ both
They should DQ the 20 and the 24 and fine the 1,3, 20, 23, and 24 teams a million dollars each.
A Few Thoughts:
First, if this manipulation goes unchecked, how can anyone legitimately trust NASCAR sports betting?
Secondly, if the actions of select Chevy and Toyota teams create a negative perception of NASCAR among fans and media, how does this not devalue the charter of Ford teams that played by the rules?
Could this lead to further litigation down the road?
You are right both the 20&24 should be out & the 1&3&23 need to sit out the last race but they don’t care
"We will build a great, great wall!" - Ross Chastain and Austin Dillon (probably)
Wow! Thanks for posting this extensive audio from the different teams. In the short term I agree with many that both the 20 and 24 should be dq’d from the championship and Larson should be in. For the longer term very costly penalties should be levied and an expulsion of some collaborators may be appropriate. It’s been done before.
Sell the sport. That’s the call NASCAR should make. Pool a few billion dollars together and buy them out once and for all. Then fire everyone in the front office. Downsize for a few years and rebuild the sport, its fanbase, and its legitimacy.
Problem is the Frances don't want to sell it...and who would buy it?! Would anyone see money in it with everyone involved disgruntled and a fan base that's NOT happy with what it's become!?
The description of this video took the words right out of my mouth
If Bubba wanted to give the spot to the 20 wouldn't it have been easier to just come to pit road?
A couple of sort of unrelated things:
-Denny Hamlin choke streak continues. Let's stop calling him a villain and keep calling him what he actually is; a choke artist
-This has been an embarrassing year for RCR & especially Austin Dillion with all of his controversies. He should really call it a career now and get that promised management job.
FedEx is the perfect sponsor for the driver that always fails to deliver when it really counts. Hack Hamlin.
There's another Austin who would probably drive that car better, hopefully RCR brings back the 31 and with Theresa not owning the 8 font anymore put that font on Kyle's car instead of that font on there now.
Go back to the full season points. It was never broken. No other legitimate racing series has “playoffs”, they go full season.
NHRA: Am I not a legitimate racing series? Bigot.
1. Shorten the season overall. 20 race regular season, 10 race chase
2. Keep the current points system with playoff points and stage wins, but use that purely for seeding for the final ten races once they start. No win and you're in but you could still reward a regular season champion
3. The chase/playoff/whatever field goes back to 10 instead of 16
4. Since you're using the playoff points and stage wins purely as seeding for the final 10 races, once those races start the playoff points and stage wins only count for the owners title
5. Once you have that field of 10, most points over the final ten races is the champion
It's really not complicated
I was thonking about divide in two championships campaings inside the season (three counting the new tournament on mid-season).
•One with the Regular and Classic acumulative points system that we have until 2003.
•Another with mantaining the final 10 race playoffs with a new qualification:
*Qualify the 10 best qualified on points at the 26 first races.
*The other six will be defined by victories (breaking ties with their stages wins and position in the championship).
*Keeping the stage and P/O points.
They should disqualify Byron from the Championship 4 and either just have a Championship 3 or move up Larson. They also need to get rid of the playoffs and have a season long championship. Since the same drivers race against each other every week, they don't need a playoff.
NASCAR needs the following:
1) The Latford Winston Cup format back with the 2007-2010 points format. (Instead of 175 points for a win before bonus points, 185 before bonus points.) With this, bring back bonus points with the following:
- 5 points for leading a lap
- 5 points for leading the most laps
- 5 points for the pole sitter on qualifying day
- 5 points for the fastest lap of the race
- 5 points for the fastest 4-tire pit stop of the race
Even keep stage racing around in its current form in terms of the points; just fet rid of the stage cautions.
2) Get rid of the Charter system and bring back the top-35 in owners points rule.
3) Bring back 43 car fields.
4) New sponsors to come in, or bring back old ones.
5) This is out of NASCAR's hands, but they also need a better economy.
The final 4 should be Larson, Bell, Reddick, and either Chase Elliott or William Byron. Logano and Blaney should both not be in contention.
I already made a suggestion in another video. Divide the 36 races of the season into 12 rounds of three races each and give the 10 best drivers points after each round according to the scheme (22-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1) plus one bonus point for each individual race win and possibly additional bonus points for the fastest race lap or most laps in the lead or stage wins. Within a round, the points + stage points are applied according to the current scheme.
If you want to make it more exciting, you can double the number of points in the last round of the season or increase the bonus points for race wins in the last round.
Win and your in needs to go plain and simple
They dont even try to hide it, thats what kills me.
Let’s all rebel against the playoffs!!!!
Race director should have got on the #1/#3 radio and tell them to cut that BS out… #24 is innocent in the deal
NO way in hell did Bubba have a flat tire going down
I'll say this until NASCAR finally does something about this. 2004-06 format or no chase at all I'll take!!!
This is just ridiculous of what NASCAR has become nowadays
This is my opinion! I am a Ryan Blaney fan I am happy he won the championship last year! I have a Blaney championship t-shirt! Do I respect his championship last year more than the drivers that won the championship pre- 2004 NO!! I WANT RYAN TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR! Would I be mad if he did not well I guess a little bit! I just think this playoff championship format since 2004 is is silly
I think the Latford System should still stand. NASCAR shouldn't base the points system on wins, it should be based on overall performance.
Will nascar ever listen to its fans? Probably not
How I would Make NASCAR More Legit if I Were President
1. Get Rid of the Playoffs and introduce a new Points Format that is full-season
2. Give Race Control to Artificial Intelligence. This is the only way officiating will be fixed, debate a wall
3. Fire Phelps, ODonnell and Sawyer in exchange for Guys who actually know NASCAR as an Organization and run it as Racers and businessmen
4. Put the Racing back into the Driver’s Hands with Big Motor/Small Blade
5. Bring Back “Run what you Brung”
just go back to the WInston points format problem solved on that front. No need to reinvent the wheel here.
NO NOT AI dear God no
@dbztranks6601 honestly any officiating is better than nascar officiating
@@treehouse98AI can't be biased, it might actually uphold the rules and be consistent.
What does #4 and #5 mean
Then who has the control?. Ford Chevy or Toyota?....
They should have given the spot to Bell. Both sides Cheated and HMS just couldn't cheat better. If both get DQ'd you either put in another HMS or JGR car.
I have said it for years that the playoffs aren't helping the sport. And I agree that the best points system should be a more top loaded one. Each position is 1 point, Top 10s are 2, top 5s 3 and wins are 10. And No playoffs. Maybe make Crown Jewel Races, Daytona 500, Coke 600, Brickyard 400, Bristol night, and Southern 500 be double points races too
Most wins with points as a tiebteaker is Champ 🙂
No stages or playoffs and FIX the #
First off I am 100% biased because I am a dirt guy over NASCAR, but honestly the Lucas Oil Late Model series has the right style of “playoff/chase” format. It doesn’t come down to 1 race. It’s split into a 3 weekend final 4. If NASCAR adapts something like that the product could be significantly better
I like the idea of a season long title. Time has shown it’s hard to have a “bracket system” format like what’s been implemented throughout the years. A season long title I think would be more fair and harder to manipulate.
Chase system
Was even more
LEGITIMATE IN MY OPINION
Absolutely, because the original chase from 2004-2010 despite having a points reset, had somewhat normal battles without the interference of playoff points, stages or round point resets, or that 1 race championship crap that turns the final race into the finale from Cars
The nascar officials are the worms from smiling friends
I will always appreciate a Smiling Friends reference
Bell gassed it up....pure and simple. Had he treated it like the usual wall scrape...which we've all seen many times in racing...he wouldn't have been penalized...but then, he also wouldn't have gained the necessary spots to pass Byron in points. He rode the wall to gain positions. After Hail Melon, NASCAR was very clear about that....don't do it. He gassed it up. He knew it. And he got caught.
Lets not even talk about hiw nascar picked half the championship contenders this year
No UA-camr should make a "playoff prediction video" next year. It needs to be made clear to Nascar, sponsors, and Media execs that people don't care about the championship anymore. Instead do a series of race winner prediction videos. Do like 4 or 5 races at a time.
I can’t wait until Sunday when we get to see 75 cameras, chase four cars and see absolutely nobody else, because drama that is as real as total drama Island. Maybe if they stop trying to compete with sports that are just going to be doing better than them no matter what they do, they could actually get a niche. And who knows, maybe that niche won’t be just eaten by Formula One
The problem with penalizing OEMs is that they’ll just be like, “Alright, then we’ll dip and leave you with nothing.”
Fully agree. Don’t change the outcome or penalize both.
If winning means so much then why isn't Larson who won 6 times in the final 4?
Also to the other point kick the 24 and 20 out for race manipulation and give it to Larson.. im not a Larson fan but it's what's right
“Lost control! No, everything’s fine! The playoffs are working perfectly as intended! Nothing to see here, folks!”
You have to be Elton Sawyer’s burner account.
Honestly, I think the playoff format should be abolish entirely!
I agree, and green-white-checkers, stages, and the Gen 7 car.