This is not spin gate. It's not even close. I'm not saying it wasn't fishy, but spin gate was deep with meetings and plans. These were a "we all know the deal" kind of manipulation.
That 77 car was an absolute MENACE out there today & I'm glad Burton gave his opinion of him during the race. The kid is fast, but he DESPERATELY needs to clean it up.
So did Alex Bowman spin Carson Hocevar on purpose to cause a yellow so Chase Elliott wouldn't have to make a green flag pitstop? Doing that it trapped Bell a lap down.
almost made it one race without last lap drama.. instead of this shameful end, we'd be bitching bout the caution button guys again for a tire entering the race under caution.
The race was exactly what I want to playoffs be like. NASCAR benefits from controversy. Drivers and everyone else were pushed to the edge and beyond in this pure race. It was what NASCAR needed, including the controversy that will be discussed for decades and the people who keep complaining that the playoffs are terrible but still show up no matter what playoffs system there is. The main thing we all were excited and it was unpredictable.
Thank you Eric for giving Ryan the accolades he deserves. He hardly ever gets talked about because he is genuinely a good guy. Again thank you, go Ryan!
As the other dude said, blaney has made comments that he would kill people because he has the emotional control of a toddler, he is far from a good guy
@@EricEsteppI find it annoying about current play off imma go bit crazy here I think they should added more play off drivers in final four than measly four like (Joey or Larson) had better chances make it. I don’t want those easy playoffs prediction every year
For 499 laps tonight, this was the best Martinsville race the Next Gen era has ever seen up to this point. It is so unfortunate that it now forever will be marred by Spingate 2.0 thanks to the 1, 3, and 23 teams' race manipulation and all the controversy post-race
He knew he didn't have Hendrick backing him up. If he did nobody would talk about it like nobody talking about every Chevy on the track letting Byron go
I don’t typically like referring to “the good ole days,” but I feel like if Bill France or Mike Helton was in the box, they would’ve been on Chastain’s and Dillon’s radio threatening them. And likely would have Bubba in the hauler and checking his car about the tire. They need a guy that will scare the hell out of drivers and teams.
Those days are gone. Real men are are in there 40s 50s 60s now. Testosterone drops each generation is think.lol that's why today's young people are such pusses. Dont wanna work. Get outside.
This isn’t the first time in cutoff we had drivers pit, not pass someone etc. in cut off races. I honestly believe if they went back to a full race season championship and do away with the playoffs. We’d see a lot cleaner racing all season long. Maybe actually get a good plate race or 2 in. I’m just sick of the gimmicks. Why do we need stage points, why do we need to be forcing drivers that Maybe only good at short tracks or road courses, or plate tracks and then get a driver ruin the race going all out for the win. The fans want it gone we want big hp back. Next gen needs a lot of fixes. Or just go back to gen 6 with carbon body 850hp. They’ve ruined the best racing for gimmicks. I loved going to races in the 90s. Early 2000s. But they couldn’t pay my way and get me to go now. We used to stay 3 or 4 days and had plenty practice to watch and qualifying. All that’s gone, cars suck, hp sucks, championship sucked. I can remember after the race they’d read off the top 5 in points. Makes racing cleaner which maybe everyone don’t like. I’m just sick of if you win nothing else matters. Take chances for more.
Here’s my opinion. From in car footage, you can clearly see Bell rode the walls to keep the positions behind him to stay in the final 4. That alone was enough for him to penalized. NASCAR is 100% able to investigate the 23 car and see if the tire really WAS going down, it’s definitely possible. Now with track house and RCR, are we surprised that 2 chevys were gonna try to keep the only Chevy in the playoffs? Yes. They definitely did. But is that cheating? I’m not sure. That sounds like manufacturing teaming. All I’m saying, when Bell floored it into the wall, that costed him that spot. He should’ve slowed down to at least come off the wall, and then gas it to the finish, he would’ve stayed in the final 4. But he 100% ride that wall thru turn 4. Did he pass anyone? No, but he sure did that to keep that position. This is my opinion, please don’t treat me like I’m 7 yrs old, we can all chat about our opinions on this like mature adults.
I agree about considering the manufacturing teaming angle...don't they help each other out during pit stops? And you can probably see other examples of a car that isn't going to win letting a car pass because of manufacturing teaming. And then there is the big Daytona track team strategy. It's a lot to consider how much of all that influences a race, a team, a driver.
There was a huge difference. Bell didn't ride the wall to pass anyone. Chastain passed 4 cars to move up to 4th from 8th. Cheating to get a car to advance in the playoffs killed Michael Waltrip Racing when Clint Bowyer spun on purpose to get Martin Truex into the next round. Chastain and Dillon basically the same. Truex was removed from the playoffs because of what Bowyer did, same thing should have happened to Byron. I was hoping Keselowski would have dumped either the 1 or 3 cars to get them out of the way but didn't, he had some class and chose to not effect the finish of the race by doing something stupid.
Irs all about the wording of the rules unfortunately. It's legal as long as you are not manipulating the outcome of a race. Even at Daytona , teams work together but at the end that stops and it's every man for himself. Bubba certainly manipulated his position to allow Bell the spot. The Chevys is borderline. From what I understand Nascar will look at the race data and radio communication. Nascar will determine whether the 1 and 3 maintained a competitive run, meaning they will probably look to see if the 1 and 3 could have passed the 24 but didn't... and if the Radio communication seems it was on purpose then that's a problem. But at this point I'm not sure what Nascar thinks anymore, they may let it go but then in the off-season determine a much clearer definition of race manipulation.
@@theoriginalracer72 absolutely I agree with you… but Bell would 100% be in the final 4 had he hit the brakes and made a visible effort to get off the wall.. but he didn’t, he floored it and rode the wall in turn 4
Agreed. This playoff season and especially this race simultaneously justified the best arguments FOR the playoffs and the best arguments AGAINST the playoffs.
I’m glad someone else said this omg. As this race was happening all I could do was appreciate the racing that this system had created. As it ended I was happy for Byron. I knew the chevys wouldn’t bump Byron. Everyone knew the situation, none of them wanted to be the one to take a Chevy teammate out of the playoffs, and everyone held their position. You can’t do that if you are miserably off the pace. it’s the same as pitting with chevys at plate tracks. Bubba allegedly slowing down for like 6 laps and almost wrecking the field is wayyyy worse to me and I love bubba. But bubba doing that for bell just to end up being the reason bell hit the wall and got disqualified is the type of cosmic karma only seen in nascar
It’s days like this that I wish that Bill France Jr., Dick Beaty, and Gary Nelson were still around and in charge. During those days the teams and driver’s actually feared NASCAR and race control.
So much to process!! I am glad that Eric mentioned SVG's efforts. SVG is a quick learner and he will be exciting to watch in 2025. His efforts in this race do not deserve to be overlooked because of all the shenanigans.
He is a really good guy and deserves the praise!!! I remember when he was just getting started and during qualifying at Texas Motor Speedway he lost control and drove that Michael Waltrip toyota headfirst into the retaining wall. I swear that I didn't think he could have lived through the impact!!! It was just horrible. At that point in time, 500 starts was unimaginable!!!!!!!!
NASCAR will NEVER change the playoff format. They will NEVER listen to what the fans want. They never have. They consistently thumb their noses at their own fans. This will never change. As much as it pains me to say it, the NASCAR we once knew and loved is gone, and we will never get it back.
The only way Nascar would change the format is if their management is fundamentally changed, which is also almost never going to happen. Nobody lies to themselves more than Nascar, and the pride and arrogance the France family carried since Nascar's birth would be thier downfall.
This race had it all in terms of controversy. Only thing missing was a phantom caution with 5 to go to stack the field up and black flagging Blaney for jumping restart. That would have been the icing on the cake.
You know how you fix that? You let the race play out and finish without somehow comparing what Bell did to what Chastain did. Bell didn't pass anybody while he was cleaning off the wall. He got loose, got sucked into the wall and rode until he got off. He was racing for a spot in the final 4, what was he 'sposed to do, stop? Oh wait he has the tie breaker on Byron? Well sorry Mr. Bell Rick H. sez you broke the rules, see ya next year. For the record I don't have a dog in this fight but I am a 60+ year race fan, I know b.s. when I see it.
He got loose because he sent it into the corner with no intention of making it, then proceeded to wall wide. The playoffs are dumb af, and I'm glad all this nonsense is exposing the system more and more.
I think they should’ve lined Christopher Bell and William Byron up at the starting line, spectator drags style. One lap from a dig. Two rounds with each driver getting a shot in the preferred lane.
This was manufacturer manipulation, not team manipulation. This is much bigger than a single team changing the outcome. Manufactures have too much power and until that changes we will continue to see incidents like this!
Chevy fan, but it looked pretty shady to me .. and then the 23 "having problems" as that traffic jamb was coming around as well... if nascar really wanted to open the can of worms this week they have plenty to look at.
When the 1 and 3 weren’t passing Byron, I knew something was up (and I’m a Hendrick fan). NASCAR has to address this if they want to maintain a true integrity!
Forget the controversy at the end. Im still mad about the "restart" that was scored at the start finish line. The green should have never flown with a tire sitting on the track
If Blaney didn't win he would have been mad at NASCAR for the tire. Not saying that he wasn't after winning the race or during the race but had he failed to win he too would be mad on the bad calls that NASCAR did rather then just at that moment.
Simple solution for me is to boycott the championship race. NASCAR has made a mockery of the championship with the playoff format and too many races have suffered because of it. Many drivers in the anonymous survey already showed displeasure with the playoffs, so we as a fan base should do the same. I'll figure out who's the "champion" next week when I watch your review!
Blaney's drive was awsome!!! Absolutely used every ounce of Will to get his car to the front!!!!! Even when nascrap unfairly set him back!!!! Then shitrolling pulled out their numbers game to manipulate the outcome - a far worse ploy than Bell's short wall ride - corrupt nascar ( NATIONAL ASSOCIATION SPECIALIZING CHEVROLET AUTO RACING) SUPPLANTED THE HMS SHITBOYS ( LIKE GORDON YEARS AGO) CORRUPT NASCRAP SHITCAR FAVORITISM IS GARBAGE 🗑 RACING AND HAS RUINED STOCK CAR RACING FOR OVER 50+ YEARS OF SHITSHOWS!!!!!!! IN ALL DIVISIONS!!!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!
I called out the second I noticed it, the others I was watching didnt realize till the radio audio was played, the broadcast didnt do it justice how much of a stack up there was until Bubba went by
This entire weekend was the perfect microcosm for why the playoff format needs to end and regular season points should be reinstated. 1. Gray vs. Eckes What should've been a textbook bump and run for the win turned into drama due to an already clinched driver knocking another one out. My dad and I watched the end of this race and had no clue at the time why fans were upset. If that doesn't tell you this system doesn't work for fans, I don't know what will. 2. Custer vs. Smith A bit tamer, but still might end how Gray vs. Eckes might end, with the driver that didn't make the finale wrecking the guy that did. 3. Whatever the Cup race was Bubba slowing down, Bell riding the wall for just under half the corner, the 24 team making a deal with the 3 team and presumably the 1 team, this was an absolute nightmare. This was essentially Spingate again, but in a worse points format, and it tained what was a good Martinsville race by next gen standards. Kevin Harvick spelled it out in 2020 that this system is flawed, but Brad Keselowski just flat out said it. This system is a broken mess. If the drivers racing in it don't think it works, then maybe it shouldn't exist at all. When drivers have to be aware of the points and can't race at 100%, then the points system is flawed. This system has only added animosity, controversy, and a list of "undeserving" champions. I know all of this has been said tenfold already, but I especially wanted to share my experience regarding the truck race, because that is what NASCAR was aiming to do with this system: bring more fans in. All it did with my dad who hasn't watched a truck race in probably a decade at least, and me, who casually keeps track of the series, is confuse the hell out of us on what should've been a classic bump and run finish for the ages. Just an overall awful weekend from a PR perspective, and it all traces back to this convoluted points system.
Things to take notice, both Joe Gibbs and Hendrick needed some sort of help (illegal or not) to get ONE car into the Championship 4. It is becoming pretty clear that Team Penske is becoming the best team in the playoffs. Their execution is next level and that’s why they have two drivers fighting for a championship.
@@dbztranks6601 being good only in the playoffs is a good thing lol. Also, yes of course logano has gotten lucky and hasn't had much speed (but he has executed), but you cant say that Blaney is undeserving of the champ 4
I was watching Blaney in car footage during the race, and it was masterful. With 20 laps or so to go, an aggressive pass on the inside against Larson, who was clearly dogging him. And the pass on Elliot; drawing high up to gain momentum and then low for a clean pass. His car was so good today on the long runs.
I miss when the memorable moments in NASCAR felt like a reward for being a loyal fan. Busch v Craven at Darlington in 03, is an all time finish. No gimmicks needed.
Up through 2007 we got great moments at the end of races, most of which didn't require green-white-checkers at all, 2005 NASCAR season was my first full season as a serious fan as I started watching with the Coke 600 part of the way through that race and just happened to find it on TV as a 10 year old, modern NASCAR has to have a green-white-checkers to get finishes like Darlington 2003, and I'd argue that was far more exciting than Larson VS Buescher was, Ricky Craven and Kurt Busch both wanted to win BAD and were bumping, rubbing, and everything they could do to get to the line first, Kurt had no power steering and his car was driving really badly (or was it driving pretty good!?) and Ricky Craven was a single time winner at the time trying to get one more rare underdog victory, also that finish scared NASCAR into keeping Darlington instead of it becoming the next victim of NASCAR's gentrification of the period.
Final 4 should be Larson, Elliot, Bell and Byron since those 4 scored the most points of any 4 drivers all season, which is what usually determines a racing championship
I am not sure NASCAR was going to be able to walk away from this race with everyone thinking NASCAR made the right call no matter what. The 1 and 3 protecting 24 cracked me up. For all the haters, yeah I hear ya, NASCAR wanted 3 teams (or Hendrick) team in the championship. I wish Bell hadn't rode the wall, that is all I can say.
The worrying thing for NASCAR shouldn't be the "safety violation", is is the fact that teams aren't always trying to win races due to "team orders". You saw it a few weeks earlier at Talladega when the 5 car took a command from his spotter to not push the 6 car to let the Chevy on the outside win. Deciding who goes on to the championship by giving it to a team that was involved in NOT passing (making the race less exciting) is a BAD look for the circuit. Without that, the 24 would have been passed by at least 5-6 cars stacked behind him and even with the penalty the 20 moves forward. Do they really want the manufacturers taking control of the races like that?
Honestly, it wouldn't have been a cup series playoff race if Nascar didn't have to get elton sawyer out of the basement to explain their clear as mud decision-making. I can't say I'm even surprised after what i watched tonight.
If you play it back but there's no shenanigans, then Chastain and Dillon both pass Byron, Wallace never fakes the flat, Bell never rides the wall, and Bell gets in. It seems to me that NASCAR is penalizing Bell for using team orders to try to counter Chevy's... team orders? This is the same situation as when schools let the bully go but punish the kid getting bullied for standing up for himself.
You make some well founded points here. But I happen to see it differently. To me, it’s reasonable to make the intentional choice to not pass a playoff driver when you obviously could do so. It happens fairly often and it’s not necessarily always a manufacturer based thing. Could be a guy you’re friends with off track and you’re giving him a break since he’s in the playoffs and he’s your buddy. We’ve even seen a guy refrain from putting somebody a lap down strictly as a means of scoring some good karma points (can’t remember which race but I want to say it involved Truex and it was sometime this year). Cut somebody a break now in hopes that he’ll return the favor later on if/when you ever need it in a big way. Not ideal, but also not the end of the world. Compare that to Bubba deciding to intentionally letting Bell pass him. That’s a very slippery slope and I think that type of stuff needs to be nipped in the bud every single time it rears its ugly head. Just like intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Penalize the crap out of that behavior. Discourage the hell out of it so it won’t become commonplace.
The problem wasn't bell passing cheat bubba it was the wall riding bell knew right away he was guilty ... He made a mistake under pressure. SVG sailed passed bell and bubba .. calm and collected 😂😂😂
@@teeneauxg8681exactly like J. Burton did for fellow shitcar driver T.STEWART years ago - slowed to let him pass on last lap - then tied with C.EDWARDS POINTS, STEWART WON TIEBREAKER!!!! MORE SHITCAR MANIPULATION!!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!!
that might be what the real goal was/is.. since Elliott couldn't' hold of blaney , this probly isn't over. i doubt it tho nascar isnt' really a larson fan.... suspended him a whole year for an off the track social event. for the use of strong language. made him go through all this behavioral and therapy bs before even thinking of reinstating him which caused ford to look the other way on him.. ultimately ending up at hendrick. and how I become a (was aready a fan jsut not #1) huge fan of his.. in spite of nascar and won his championship that year.
@@ravageduckmanguythat would indeed be nuclear. Can you imagine that though, Penske goes from a 50% chance to a 67% chance? And all they have to do is get Cindric to wipe out the 45 and boom. Gurarenteed championchip 😅
That was a race, lots of fun to watch. Bell may have rode the wall, but Dillon and Chastain were blocking for Byron also. Let's check Bubba's tires. I would disqualify both of them, Larson would be in.
No one was blocking wtf u on about Brad is not shy about putting the bumper too if he could have got there ... People are claiming the 1 and 3 should pass the 24 not that they stopped the 6 from passing .. 6 wasn't fast enough in final stage after leading earlier
Bubba wouldn't have had to slow up for Bell if the Chevys didn't sandbag for Byron first. Not sure what the best solution based on that would be, but its clear to me that Bubba slowing up was a Toyota reaction to what the Chevys were doing
Its worth pointing out that during the time between the finish and the penalty call, NASCAR was only looking at the wall ride, not any of the race manipulation stuff - they said this
This proves how phony the playoffs are truly are. This is an embarrassing way to crown a champion. All "entertainment" not sport with race manipulation for the 20 and 24 making the championship 4. This was a very good Martinsville race with this car, sad it'll be overshadowed by this playoff nonsense.
Joey Logano: has 6 top 5s, 12 top 10s, and a 17th place average finish Makes the final 4 Christopher Bell: has 14 top 5s, 22 top 10s, has 12th place average finish Misses the final 4 Elton Sawyer: “We believe this system rewards the best drivers in our sport.” “Bunch of BS. It’s not even frickin’ close.”
Totally agree. What’s the answer though? Keep in mind we have this system because Kenseth won the championship with only one win in 2003. They hated he won by being consistent. Maybe the top points drivers make the playoffs and get rid of win your in?
At the track, it was just fun to see Blaney be an absolute unit the whole day. Without hearing radio or context from social media, we could see the Chevy's do their thing. It took some of a us a bit after the race to realize that Bell and Bubba even did anything. But the best part, was that Blaney the lone Ford, got the job done while Chevy and Toyota were off doing...things.
My solution to the whole playoff thing is just do a regular points format but make winning a race just like an absurd amount of points more than second place.
I understand why NASCAR shot Bell for the wall ride. They said it was no longer allowed after Chastain, if you don’t enforce it against Bell then all hell breaks loose with teams bending the rule as much as possible. It was cool as hell when Chastain did it… even tho it was at the expense of my favorite driver’s championship run but it was still cool. It however should NOT be a strategy put in a playbook essentially creating a new ‘bump/dump and run’
On purpose. This guy intentionally put Byron doing the freemason "penalty" sign in the thumbnail. Nascar is scritpted and they have media guys like this in on it
I think its important to consider why sports leagues have a ‘season championship’ The most basic purpose of a championship is to determine who is the best team/athlete in a given league, not to make the competition entertaining. If a championship system is what makes or breaks the threshold for what is/isn’t an entertaining sport, there are MUCH bigger and more fundamental issues at hand. In pro football, each game is 1 team vs the other. The playoffs are in place to give all teams that are at least in the conversation a chance to play head-to-head with teams they didn’t have on their schedule. NASCAR teams are all on the track together. every week. The championship should be of much more importance in the competitor’s mind than it is for spectators. I could go on a lot longer but I’ll leave it there EDIT: This week may be a good week for Eric to bring back Out of the Crowd
"Teams have very little respect for NASCAR." Incredible quote. Who does? The finish to this race was nothing but a clown show, and there's only one organisation to blame.
I think they should scrap the playoffs. Go to a standings championship like every other motorsport but with a twist with races like Daytona & other races throught the season having double points maybe?
Being at the race with 88 to go after the caution I told my brother “Ryan Blaney is going to win this race if it goes the distance without another caution”. Watching him lap by lap close up and pass everyone was incredible.
Larson should be the fourth guy in. Certified Larson hater here, the team orders by both Chevy and Toyota should be enough to disqualify both Bell and Byron, clear as day with the radio communications that that was race manipulation. As for the “wall ride” come on guys the rule is that you can’t PASS in the wall, Bell maintained position, started on the wall next to Bowman already ahead of Wallace ended at the line well behind Bowman (just my opinion though). That said the real safety violation should go to NASCAR for putting everyone in this situation to begin with.
I hope they investigate the 23's tire. Should be easy enough to prove if it has a leak or something. And if it doesn't, then yeah, both the 24 and 20 should be out. The 24 should definitely be out though. Not much investigation needed there. It was clear the 1 and 3 were playing roadblock
@@Crush1084He was ahead of them though, and they said in 2020 that if you were ahead, orders not to pass basically are not the same. It was only if you were ahead and slowed down they would penalize you.
I definitely didn't want Larson to be in the final 4, but that was my gut feeling on how it should have went. There was equal manipulation/rule breaking to get Byron and Bell in, so I kind of feel they offset each other. Either both Bell/Byron shouldn't have been penalized, or they both should have, and Larson should be in.
I know it's not a popular take, but I have always hated the playoff format! For me, the championship doesn't mean as much now because it's not about a whole season! You can get hot at a certain time and win the title when you don't deserve it
You must not like the NFL either. It doesn’t matter how you start, well it does too, it matters most how you finish. Hendricks and Gibbs are simply not as good as Penske when it comes to this strategy. It really comes down to luck, which is preparation.
The saddest thing about this is that it will overshadow the greatest martinsville race in the next gen era and blaney incredible run at the end. To be honest there’s 1 way they could settle this, Bell and Byron race in LA for a 200 lap, winner goes to pheonix.
To help "Fix" the point system, go back to one of the "old ways." Award points for leading laps, say 1 point for each driver who leads a lap in a race, and 5 points to the leader of the most laps. That may slow down some of the "fuel saving" to get to the end of a stage. Also make it a larger point "gap" from winner to second place. As to race manipulation, automatic DQ to the cars manipulating the race and the car that benefits from the manipulation. If you adopt this scenario, Byron, Chastain, Dillon, Wallace, and Bell DQ'd, and Larson is in. One episode of enforcing a policy like that would end the gamesmanship.
Implications and frustration aside, we need to come up with a witty name for what Bell did tonight. "Hail Melon"? How about "Hail Bell-on"? "DeWALLt ride?" Im open to suggestions. lol
Points need to be awarded by lap. 1st place gets max points - for that lap. Last place gets 1 point. Add them up for the race total, and divide by the number of cars in the race. No more sandbagging. No more laying back. No more single file killing time. Each lap pays based on your performance.
I genuinely hope you read this comment. I love NASCAR. I’ve loved it since my dad got me into the sport when I was six years old but tonight is one of the worst things I think I’ve ever seen in a championship organization sport. The playoff system is a joke I know I don’t like being negative I know it’s a negative thing to say, but I guarantee you drivers and fans are fed up with the system at this point. The reason I watch sports is to see the best teams win championships. Out of all the sports that I have watched this sport, NASCAR, has got to be the most illegitimate championship format I have ever seen in my life. I am only 23 years old I have seen a lot, but this was awful, there was manipulation throughout the last 20 laps of that race and its ceases to amaze me how NASCAR can be OK with that. Now saying this, I will still watch this even nine weeks in to the NFL season, which is my passion. I will always watch this sport because racing gives me a sense of ease but NASCAR has to fix this problem and it’s been a problem ever since they implemented it from Brian France, it has to be fixed because you will lose fans and they think it’s illegitimate.
ALL Championships are contrived. The only difference is in motorsports as compared to stick and ball games is in racing EVERY team is on the playing field, not just those playing for a Championship. Everyone knows the rules and plays under the same rules. If you want to be mad, be mad at Kenseth for winning the Championship without winning a single race that year!
Ive been a NASCAR fan for 20 years and this was the most egregious insulting thing ive ever seen as a fan. Im disqusted and ashamed to be passionate about a "sport" that operates in this manner. Playoffs are dead to me.
Its all on Christopher! All he had to do was peddle it a bit and get off the wall! Bubba was not going to pass him, heck , he would have pushed him if need be. Did " Chevy" make phone calls to the 3 and 1 . . YES! Did Toyota call the 23 Yes! So what. All Bell had to do was get off the wall.
Have we all forgotten Ross Chastain holding up Blaney in the championship race last year trying to get Byron closer????? So not a first “Chevy” offense. The “Chevy cuts Parker Retzlaff for trying to win by “not pushing, following the Chevy.” That’s strike 2 for Chevy. 🤔 Is this the 3rd strike????
I’m sure that I’m biased now being a Larson fan. But this has really opened my eyes to the flawed nature of the playoffs, I used to be a fan of all the chaos like in 2020when Elliot “stole” a championship. But Larson, the driver with by far the most wins in the series misses out while Logano, nothing against his speed at the right times it’s truly impressive. Mostly just upset with this flawed format again effecting my favorite driver, I’m not sure the solution but we definitely need one. 🤝
Funny thing is, in the winston format (the last real legitimate format), Larson would've entered Martinsville 5th in points. Bell, Byron, Reddick and Elliott have been more consistent. They just haven't won as much (though the 20 should've won a few more).
@@easyenetwork2023 True, but even with a max points day at Charlotte, he would've entered Martinsville 2nd at best. The 20 had 200 on him going in. The real crime though? We could be getting a great points battle between the 5, 9, 20, 24 and 45, but instead we're stuck with this because manufactured drama.
I’m a new fan that has been trying to get into sport throughout the season and I’ve enjoyed it from time to time, but man this is probably what is gonna finally bounce me right off. I genuinely can’t fathom anyone genuinely defending this format, and its genuinely can’f take the sport seriously with it in place.
We actually did it. We’ve topped Spingate. It only took a decade, but we’ve finally done it.
Yet we now have Chevy gate
@@timechanger9162 i'd call it 'AllianceGate', because Toyota was in on the shenaniganry too.
This is not spin gate. It's not even close. I'm not saying it wasn't fishy, but spin gate was deep with meetings and plans. These were a "we all know the deal" kind of manipulation.
@@CousinCarl99hendrickgate because ultimately no Hendrick cars would’ve been in the championship race if Bell got the spot.
@@timechanger9162so bubba parking it to let bell pass is nothing right .. Toyota gate also if you don’t think this way just a Chevy hater
BREAKING NEWS: Due to the events that took place at the 2024 Xfinity 500, NASCAR has decided to add Jeff Gordon as a 5th member to the Championship 4.
He will be driving the 24 DuPont Chevrolet, not to be confused with the 24 Axalta Chevrolet.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 love it!!
@@ESMN_ can I get an AMEN
😂 Good one!
Damn right,it's spin gate all over again!!
Friday: Taylor Gray vs. Christian Eckes
Saturday: Chandler Smith vs. Cole Custer
Sunday: Everybody vs. NASCAR
WWE NASCAR RAW GM: THEY WANT GAMES, ITS TIME FOR WARGAMES! AND THESE MATCHES ARE NOW BLOODLINE RULES!
Weekend of exposing NASCAR p/o format yay
we will never see a truck champion to become a cup champion it's impossible
The day NASCAR's bathrobe dropped. November 3rd, 2024.
That 77 car was an absolute MENACE out there today & I'm glad Burton gave his opinion of him during the race. The kid is fast, but he DESPERATELY needs to clean it up.
He deserved an unfurled black on the second wreck he caused, he wouldn't have been there at the end. It was blatantly wreckless.
So did Alex Bowman spin Carson Hocevar on purpose to cause a yellow so Chase Elliott wouldn't have to make a green flag pitstop? Doing that it trapped Bell a lap down.
It was so funny to hear them lay into him like that lmaoooo
Yupppp all he does is wreck guys in the truck series and xfinity series
If we had the Winston cup format you would have a super close 3 way battle for the Championship at Phoenix between Elliott, Bell, and Reddick
The Playoff system is a total farce…
"We have a shit show here." - Mark Martin 11/3/2024
You know you've fucked up big time when even Mark Martin cusses.
@@VGF80 I 💯 % agree!
When a class acts like Mark Martin, talks like that on social media, you know we have hit a new low, if not rock-bottom! 😢
You said it best Mark ....
@@VGF80 I doubt "Shit" counts as cussing here.
Jeff Burton said it best when discussing the good finish with the playoff controversies; “It’s a damn shame.”
almost made it one race without last lap drama.. instead of this shameful end, we'd be bitching bout the caution button guys again for a tire entering the race under caution.
@@Ice-BladeNASCAR told the tire to roll out onto the track! 😂
To anyone who wonders why so many of us are against the playoff format….this race is the exact reason why.
Next race will be worse, I can feel it.
The race was exactly what I want to playoffs be like. NASCAR benefits from controversy. Drivers and everyone else were pushed to the edge and beyond in this pure race. It was what NASCAR needed, including the controversy that will be discussed for decades and the people who keep complaining that the playoffs are terrible but still show up no matter what playoffs system there is. The main thing we all were excited and it was unpredictable.
Shame that's all u got because this race was awesome
Meh.
@@kg0173and like that sporting integrity is thrown out the window.
Can I sue NASCAR for emotional damage and pain and suffering for the years of my life this season has taken from my soul
Thank you Eric for giving Ryan the accolades he deserves. He hardly ever gets talked about because he is genuinely a good guy. Again thank you, go Ryan!
As the other dude said, blaney has made comments that he would kill people because he has the emotional control of a toddler, he is far from a good guy
@UtahHockeyFan-mz7fd Jealousy sucks
Stick to hockey.
bro dressed in a suit to mourn his pre-playoff predictions
lol pretty much
As a Larson fan i took that 100% chance prediction jinx personal
@@impliedevens same I was thinking when watching them 3 weeks ago “well shit”
@adepressednygiantsfan it's ok, at least we have our Giants to cheer for.... oh wait
@@EricEsteppI find it annoying about current play off imma go bit crazy here I think they should added more play off drivers in final four than measly four like (Joey or Larson) had better chances make it. I don’t want those easy playoffs prediction every year
For 499 laps tonight, this was the best Martinsville race the Next Gen era has ever seen up to this point. It is so unfortunate that it now forever will be marred by Spingate 2.0 thanks to the 1, 3, and 23 teams' race manipulation and all the controversy post-race
As far as we know. Again Eric himself said we do not know.
More like wallride gate or hallmelon gate.
It will all be worth it if it means the end of the playoffs as we know it...
Chastain and Dillon were camping behind Byron for a lot more than 1 lap.
@@jermaineboyd6594would have never happened if the two idiots would have raced Byron
After the race, Bell looked like the little kid whose teacher called his dad at work, & he was waiting on Dad to get home.
Bell knew it would only be a matter of time before he got caught. I noticed that the moment he got out of his car.
More like being caught with his pants down around his ankles by his girlfriend’s old man.
He knew he didn't have Hendrick backing him up. If he did nobody would talk about it like nobody talking about every Chevy on the track letting Byron go
@@flacko_jody2130 Hendrick wrote a bigger cheque
Bell got robbed by Nascar and Hendrick!!!
I don’t typically like referring to “the good ole days,” but I feel like if Bill France or Mike Helton was in the box, they would’ve been on Chastain’s and Dillon’s radio threatening them. And likely would have Bubba in the hauler and checking his car about the tire.
They need a guy that will scare the hell out of drivers and teams.
Those days are gone. Real men are are in there 40s 50s 60s now. Testosterone drops each generation is think.lol that's why today's young people are such pusses. Dont wanna work. Get outside.
Well it is what it is I don’t think Bubba wanted to get wrecked!
This isn’t the first time in cutoff we had drivers pit, not pass someone etc. in cut off races. I honestly believe if they went back to a full race season championship and do away with the playoffs. We’d see a lot cleaner racing all season long. Maybe actually get a good plate race or 2 in. I’m just sick of the gimmicks. Why do we need stage points, why do we need to be forcing drivers that Maybe only good at short tracks or road courses, or plate tracks and then get a driver ruin the race going all out for the win. The fans want it gone we want big hp back. Next gen needs a lot of fixes. Or just go back to gen 6 with carbon body 850hp. They’ve ruined the best racing for gimmicks. I loved going to races in the 90s. Early 2000s. But they couldn’t pay my way and get me to go now. We used to stay 3 or 4 days and had plenty practice to watch and qualifying. All that’s gone, cars suck, hp sucks, championship sucked. I can remember after the race they’d read off the top 5 in points. Makes racing cleaner which maybe everyone don’t like. I’m just sick of if you win nothing else matters. Take chances for more.
Here’s my opinion.
From in car footage, you can clearly see Bell rode the walls to keep the positions behind him to stay in the final 4. That alone was enough for him to penalized. NASCAR is 100% able to investigate the 23 car and see if the tire really WAS going down, it’s definitely possible. Now with track house and RCR, are we surprised that 2 chevys were gonna try to keep the only Chevy in the playoffs? Yes. They definitely did. But is that cheating? I’m not sure. That sounds like manufacturing teaming.
All I’m saying, when Bell floored it into the wall, that costed him that spot. He should’ve slowed down to at least come off the wall, and then gas it to the finish, he would’ve stayed in the final 4. But he 100% ride that wall thru turn 4. Did he pass anyone? No, but he sure did that to keep that position.
This is my opinion, please don’t treat me like I’m 7 yrs old, we can all chat about our opinions on this like mature adults.
I agree about considering the manufacturing teaming angle...don't they help each other out during pit stops? And you can probably see other examples of a car that isn't going to win letting a car pass because of manufacturing teaming. And then there is the big Daytona track team strategy. It's a lot to consider how much of all that influences a race, a team, a driver.
There was a huge difference. Bell didn't ride the wall to pass anyone. Chastain passed 4 cars to move up to 4th from 8th. Cheating to get a car to advance in the playoffs killed Michael Waltrip Racing when Clint Bowyer spun on purpose to get Martin Truex into the next round. Chastain and Dillon basically the same. Truex was removed from the playoffs because of what Bowyer did, same thing should have happened to Byron. I was hoping Keselowski would have dumped either the 1 or 3 cars to get them out of the way but didn't, he had some class and chose to not effect the finish of the race by doing something stupid.
Irs all about the wording of the rules unfortunately. It's legal as long as you are not manipulating the outcome of a race. Even at Daytona , teams work together but at the end that stops and it's every man for himself. Bubba certainly manipulated his position to allow Bell the spot. The Chevys is borderline. From what I understand Nascar will look at the race data and radio communication. Nascar will determine whether the 1 and 3 maintained a competitive run, meaning they will probably look to see if the 1 and 3 could have passed the 24 but didn't... and if the Radio communication seems it was on purpose then that's a problem.
But at this point I'm not sure what Nascar thinks anymore, they may let it go but then in the off-season determine a much clearer definition of race manipulation.
@@theoriginalracer72 absolutely I agree with you… but Bell would 100% be in the final 4 had he hit the brakes and made a visible effort to get off the wall.. but he didn’t, he floored it and rode the wall in turn 4
@@isaiahspell3019 You are correct. When they did the replay you could hear him gassing the car as hard as he could.
Change of subject, Erik Jones entering pit lane like a guy checking his phone coming to a stop light was one of the best sports analogy ever.
Agreed. This playoff season and especially this race simultaneously justified the best arguments FOR the playoffs and the best arguments AGAINST the playoffs.
nascar fans oftentimes don’t notice how much they enjoy the drama and storylines created DIRECTLY by the playoff system.
I’m glad someone else said this omg. As this race was happening all I could do was appreciate the racing that this system had created. As it ended I was happy for Byron. I knew the chevys wouldn’t bump Byron. Everyone knew the situation, none of them wanted to be the one to take a Chevy teammate out of the playoffs, and everyone held their position. You can’t do that if you are miserably off the pace. it’s the same as pitting with chevys at plate tracks. Bubba allegedly slowing down for like 6 laps and almost wrecking the field is wayyyy worse to me and I love bubba. But bubba doing that for bell just to end up being the reason bell hit the wall and got disqualified is the type of cosmic karma only seen in nascar
@@drumnbasssakuga9352 Its not racing anymore. If this was true you wouldnt see f1 gaining so many US fans. Nascar has made a joke out of the season.
Remember last week when we ended the race with the thought "it's so nice having a race without controversy"? Yeah, they said "hold my beer" tonight
Well since when is there a quiet martinsville playoff race?
@marioaustin9312 yeah ain't that the truth
It's scripted entertainment. Of course there will be artifical controversy. Estepp gives away the game in his thumbnails if you know what to look for
😢@@kk5hendrikm
@@SprintCarMan24 How do you script a TIE for 4th in the points, after 500 laps on a short track?
It’s days like this that I wish that Bill France Jr., Dick Beaty, and Gary Nelson were still around and in charge. During those days the teams and driver’s actually feared NASCAR and race control.
So much to process!! I am glad that Eric mentioned SVG's efforts. SVG is a quick learner and he will be exciting to watch in 2025. His efforts in this race do not deserve to be overlooked because of all the shenanigans.
Congratulations to Michael McDowell for 500 career starts
Let's go McDowell!
Yo that’s actually an awesome stat to read! Big congrats!
He is a really good guy and deserves the praise!!! I remember when he was just getting started and during qualifying at Texas Motor Speedway he lost control and drove that Michael Waltrip toyota headfirst into the retaining wall. I swear that I didn't think he could have lived through the impact!!! It was just horrible. At that point in time, 500 starts was unimaginable!!!!!!!!
Credit to SVG on getting 12th after starting 29th and going 2 laps downs at one point
And almost being wrecked by cryin’ Ryan
He is trash on the ovels
@MrBigbrian1356 If you are going to call someone "trash" don't embarrass yourself by misspelling a simple word like OVAL.
@@garyjackson3531 he’s a Kamala supporter
@@stellingbanjodude That would explain things.
NASCAR will NEVER change the playoff format. They will NEVER listen to what the fans want. They never have. They consistently thumb their noses at their own fans. This will never change. As much as it pains me to say it, the NASCAR we once knew and loved is gone, and we will never get it back.
Yep, NASCAR will never get rid of the playoffs, they'd rather go out of business than admit they're wrong and actually fix the sport.
The only way Nascar would change the format is if their management is fundamentally changed, which is also almost never going to happen. Nobody lies to themselves more than Nascar, and the pride and arrogance the France family carried since Nascar's birth would be thier downfall.
And you continue to watch
@ksmith1298 they act like it's not the same teams winning lol😂😂 just the "poor" teams make an appearance here and there
The continuous tinkering with the point systems is why I lost interest in NASCAR. Cost Gordon another title or two.
Here’s an idea, start counting points at the Daytona 500 and whoever has the most at the end of the last race of the year is the champion.
they could learn from Indy and F1, way simpler and fair systems to decide the winner
To me they wont get ride of the playoff system, but i would change it to points system. Take the win and you are in to be BIN.
Of all the NASCAR races in history, this was one of them.
Wow wow wow.... wow.
lol yes you are right. of all the races in nascars history, this was indeed one of the races
I’m gonna call this the “fail melon”
Fail Bellon*
@@D2RCR Bell's Hell
This is too funny
Bells to the wall
Hilarious! :)
nascar should’ve just DQ’d both the 24 and 20… welcome to the championship 4, jeff gordon and bobby allison. 💀😭
Realest of facts. They’re not even hiding team orders anymore
Final 4 should be Tony Stewart, Robby Gordon, Bobby Allison and Mark Martin.
@@Daniel_95too young to remember teams entering extra cars/trucks to help their driver win a championship I see 😂
@provicate4334 Ricky Bobby over Robby Gordon
@@hutrod7721 Truck series finale at Homestead in 2003
Im old enough to remember when a race day snack consisted of a dozen barley sandwiches and a nap on the roof of the motor home. Great video
This race had it all in terms of controversy. Only thing missing was a phantom caution with 5 to go to stack the field up and black flagging Blaney for jumping restart. That would have been the icing on the cake.
Here’s your stick and ball comparison 🤣:
NASCAR Race Control is as consistent at making good calls as Angel Hernandez calling balls and strikes.
👍👍 😂😂😂
They should’ve added Jeff Gordon to the championship 4 and called it Spingate 2.0
@@irvingboy1122 they did add the 24 car
@@Cuhh346 true
Remember when Jeff Gordon couldn't do a burnout after a race because of his traction control?😂😂😂😂😂
Jeff Burton said it best, “it’s a damn shame that this is what we’re talking about after such a great race.” Amen Jeff
You know how you fix that? You let the race play out and finish without somehow comparing what Bell did to what Chastain did. Bell didn't pass anybody while he was cleaning off the wall. He got loose, got sucked into the wall and rode until he got off. He was racing for a spot in the final 4, what was he 'sposed to do, stop? Oh wait he has the tie breaker on Byron? Well sorry Mr. Bell Rick H. sez you broke the rules, see ya next year. For the record I don't have a dog in this fight but I am a 60+ year race fan, I know b.s. when I see it.
He got loose because he sent it into the corner with no intention of making it, then proceeded to wall wide.
The playoffs are dumb af, and I'm glad all this nonsense is exposing the system more and more.
I think they should’ve lined Christopher Bell and William Byron up at the starting line, spectator drags style. One lap from a dig. Two rounds with each driver getting a shot in the preferred lane.
That is drag racing not Nascar. Teams deciding whether to set up a fast cars or good in the long runs. Save fuel or pass everybody? That is Nascar.
@ obviously just fantasizing. I think it would be cool to see
DQ both the 20 and 24 (even as historic 24 fan) and move the 5 up. This would silence most of the haters.
This was manufacturer manipulation, not team manipulation. This is much bigger than a single team changing the outcome. Manufactures have too much power and until that changes we will continue to see incidents like this!
BINGO !!!!!!
No way they were gonna leave Chevy and Hendrick (felon) out of the playoffs
Chevy fan, but it looked pretty shady to me .. and then the 23 "having problems" as that traffic jamb was coming around as well... if nascar really wanted to open the can of worms this week they have plenty to look at.
When the 1 and 3 weren’t passing Byron, I knew something was up (and I’m a Hendrick fan). NASCAR has to address this if they want to maintain a true integrity!
Manufacturers are the only reason that NASCAR even exists in the first place.
Forget the controversy at the end. Im still mad about the "restart" that was scored at the start finish line. The green should have never flown with a tire sitting on the track
They can't call a caution before they see it ...
@@Bogues_88TV saw it well before the restart. How can’t NASCAR?
Agreed. Bad officiating by NASCAR. But I think that restart fiasco fired up Blaney even more. Impressive racing.
If Blaney didn't win he would have been mad at NASCAR for the tire. Not saying that he wasn't after winning the race or during the race but had he failed to win he too would be mad on the bad calls that NASCAR did rather then just at that moment.
Simple solution for me is to boycott the championship race. NASCAR has made a mockery of the championship with the playoff format and too many races have suffered because of it. Many drivers in the anonymous survey already showed displeasure with the playoffs, so we as a fan base should do the same. I'll figure out who's the "champion" next week when I watch your review!
From the looks of the stands at Martinsville. They already have boycotted the races. 😜
I agree, we gotta hit tv ratings like ticket sales. It's unfortunately the only thing we can do cuz I don't think complaining helps much.
this episode of out of the groove is the one I was looking forward to the most after the race. Couldn’t wait to hear your take.
No more win 1 race and you are in! Need to win at least 2 races!
Congratulations to Goodyear and NASCAR for possibly fixing the short track problem.
It was a huge improvement for sure
Definitely the best racing we’ve seen at Martinsville since the gen7 car debuted.
That gets lost with all the shenanigans
Thanks for the level-headed review. You do a nice job of coming off without bias.
Can’t wait for the playoffs to go away.
most of the time anyway...
The playoffs aren't going away.
From the stands, you could just see the stack up behind Byron and you knew the 2 Chevy cars were creating a blockade
Blaney's drive was awsome!!! Absolutely used every ounce of Will to get his car to the front!!!!! Even when nascrap unfairly set him back!!!! Then shitrolling pulled out their numbers game to manipulate the outcome - a far worse ploy than Bell's short wall ride - corrupt nascar ( NATIONAL ASSOCIATION SPECIALIZING CHEVROLET AUTO RACING) SUPPLANTED THE HMS SHITBOYS ( LIKE GORDON YEARS AGO) CORRUPT NASCRAP SHITCAR FAVORITISM IS GARBAGE 🗑 RACING AND HAS RUINED STOCK CAR RACING FOR OVER 50+ YEARS OF SHITSHOWS!!!!!!! IN ALL DIVISIONS!!!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!
I called out the second I noticed it, the others I was watching didnt realize till the radio audio was played, the broadcast didnt do it justice how much of a stack up there was until Bubba went by
What's the difference in martinsville race and Superspeedway racing. Ford helps Ford,Chevy helps Chevy. No difference o me.
@jamespowell3513 at the end of a superspeedway race it's typically everyman for himself no team help. The key is the outcome of the race itself.
This entire weekend was the perfect microcosm for why the playoff format needs to end and regular season points should be reinstated.
1. Gray vs. Eckes
What should've been a textbook bump and run for the win turned into drama due to an already clinched driver knocking another one out. My dad and I watched the end of this race and had no clue at the time why fans were upset. If that doesn't tell you this system doesn't work for fans, I don't know what will.
2. Custer vs. Smith
A bit tamer, but still might end how Gray vs. Eckes might end, with the driver that didn't make the finale wrecking the guy that did.
3. Whatever the Cup race was
Bubba slowing down, Bell riding the wall for just under half the corner, the 24 team making a deal with the 3 team and presumably the 1 team, this was an absolute nightmare. This was essentially Spingate again, but in a worse points format, and it tained what was a good Martinsville race by next gen standards.
Kevin Harvick spelled it out in 2020 that this system is flawed, but Brad Keselowski just flat out said it. This system is a broken mess. If the drivers racing in it don't think it works, then maybe it shouldn't exist at all. When drivers have to be aware of the points and can't race at 100%, then the points system is flawed. This system has only added animosity, controversy, and a list of "undeserving" champions.
I know all of this has been said tenfold already, but I especially wanted to share my experience regarding the truck race, because that is what NASCAR was aiming to do with this system: bring more fans in. All it did with my dad who hasn't watched a truck race in probably a decade at least, and me, who casually keeps track of the series, is confuse the hell out of us on what should've been a classic bump and run finish for the ages.
Just an overall awful weekend from a PR perspective, and it all traces back to this convoluted points system.
Oct 18th “Larson gets a 10/10 there is no way he misses the championship 4” Eric estepp
NASCAR has entered the ballot stuffing part of the Politics in NASCAR and has become exactly what we don't want.
I refreshed my feed about 40 times waiting for this video!!!!
Things to take notice, both Joe Gibbs and Hendrick needed some sort of help (illegal or not) to get ONE car into the Championship 4. It is becoming pretty clear that Team Penske is becoming the best team in the playoffs. Their execution is next level and that’s why they have two drivers fighting for a championship.
True. Team Penske is so good in the playoffs they're above the need for these kinds of shenanigans lol
Ok but logano got in the 8 by a bowman penalty and got lucky last week. Along with that only being good in the playoffs isn't a good thing
They get 1 mickey mouse win and do nothing in the regular season just luck their way in
Penske is good at like 5 races out of a 36. They just happen to be important races.
@@dbztranks6601 being good only in the playoffs is a good thing lol. Also, yes of course logano has gotten lucky and hasn't had much speed (but he has executed), but you cant say that Blaney is undeserving of the champ 4
I was watching Blaney in car footage during the race, and it was masterful. With 20 laps or so to go, an aggressive pass on the inside against Larson, who was clearly dogging him. And the pass on Elliot; drawing high up to gain momentum and then low for a clean pass. His car was so good today on the long runs.
I miss when the memorable moments in NASCAR felt like a reward for being a loyal fan. Busch v Craven at Darlington in 03, is an all time finish. No gimmicks needed.
Up through 2007 we got great moments at the end of races, most of which didn't require green-white-checkers at all, 2005 NASCAR season was my first full season as a serious fan as I started watching with the Coke 600 part of the way through that race and just happened to find it on TV as a 10 year old, modern NASCAR has to have a green-white-checkers to get finishes like Darlington 2003, and I'd argue that was far more exciting than Larson VS Buescher was, Ricky Craven and Kurt Busch both wanted to win BAD and were bumping, rubbing, and everything they could do to get to the line first, Kurt had no power steering and his car was driving really badly (or was it driving pretty good!?) and Ricky Craven was a single time winner at the time trying to get one more rare underdog victory, also that finish scared NASCAR into keeping Darlington instead of it becoming the next victim of NASCAR's gentrification of the period.
Cup Series Points Standings (Full season points)(Current points system)
1. Kyle Larson 1146 (6 wins)
2. Chase Elliott 1121 (1 win)
3. Christopher Bell 1114 (3 wins)
4. William Byron 1099 (3 wins)
5. Tyler Reddick 1071 (3 wins)
6. Ryan Blaney 1045 (3 wins)
7. Denny Hamlin 1033 (3 wins)
8. Alex Bowman 956 (1 win)
9. Brad Keselowski 921 (1 win)
10. Martin Truex Jr. 918
11. Bubba Wallace 898
12. Chris Buescher 897 (1 win)
13. Ross Chastain 884 (1 win)
14. Joey Logano 871 (3 win)
15. Ty Gibbs 866
16. Kyle Busch 750
17. Chase Briscoe 742 (1 win)
18. Daniel Suarez 739 (1 win)
19. Austin Cindric 724 (1 win)
20. Carson Hocevar 667
21. Michael McDowell 618
22. Todd Gilliland 613
23. Noah Gragson 587
24. Ricky Stenhouse Jr 586 (1 win)
25. Ryan Preece 583
26. Josh Berry 566
27. Austin Dillon 533 (1 win)
28. Zane Smith 504
29. Erik Jones 501
29. Daniel Hemric 501
31. Justin Haley 494
32. Corey LaJoie 484
33. John Hunter Nemechek 440
34. Harrison Burton 418 (1 win)
35. Aj Allmendinger 289
36. Shane Van Gisbergen 205
37. Kaz Grala 203
38. Cody Ware 146
39. Ty Dillon 92
40. BJ McLeod 65
41. Anthony Alfredo 54
42. Jimmie Johnson 49
43. Joey Hand 43
44. Corey Heim 35
45. Parker Retzlaff 32
46. Derek Kraus 32
47. JJ Yeley 32
48. Justin Allgaier 24
49. Austin Hill 23
50. Josh Bilicki 21
51. Riley Herbst 20
52. David Ragan 17
52. Joey Gase 17
54. Josh Williams 11
55. Kamui Kobayashi 8
56. Will Brown 6
57. Juan Pablo Montoya 5
58. Timmy Hill 3
59. Cam Waters 2
59. Chad Finchum 2
61. David Starr 1
Larson built different
This is the real championship... this cut off crap is BS.
Still would be a hell of a battle for the title. Doesn’t even need the playoff format.
And Larson missed a race😂
So what scenarios need to be played out for Larson (leader), Elliott (-25), Bell (-32), and Byron (-47) to clinch the title in this format?
The verdict on Byron/Bell took twice as long as the O.J. Simpson verdict.
lmao
lolll
And they still got it wrong in both cases
@AlexE5250 Def didn't get this one wrong
@@RadRoy42 Yeah, they did.
If the playoff format isn’t completely removed or at least altered significantly the sport will never recover
Final 4 should be Larson, Elliot, Bell and Byron since those 4 scored the most points of any 4 drivers all season, which is what usually determines a racing championship
I think Reddick scored more than Byron, but yeah.
I am not sure NASCAR was going to be able to walk away from this race with everyone thinking NASCAR made the right call no matter what.
The 1 and 3 protecting 24 cracked me up. For all the haters, yeah I hear ya, NASCAR wanted 3 teams (or Hendrick) team in the championship.
I wish Bell hadn't rode the wall, that is all I can say.
The worrying thing for NASCAR shouldn't be the "safety violation", is is the fact that teams aren't always trying to win races due to "team orders". You saw it a few weeks earlier at Talladega when the 5 car took a command from his spotter to not push the 6 car to let the Chevy on the outside win. Deciding who goes on to the championship by giving it to a team that was involved in NOT passing (making the race less exciting) is a BAD look for the circuit. Without that, the 24 would have been passed by at least 5-6 cars stacked behind him and even with the penalty the 20 moves forward. Do they really want the manufacturers taking control of the races like that?
We need 1 car teams only and no manufacturers.
You do know the 5 never lifted at Dega. The SMT shows Larson was at 100% throttle.
Honestly, it wouldn't have been a cup series playoff race if Nascar didn't have to get elton sawyer out of the basement to explain their clear as mud decision-making. I can't say I'm even surprised after what i watched tonight.
If you play it back but there's no shenanigans, then Chastain and Dillon both pass Byron, Wallace never fakes the flat, Bell never rides the wall, and Bell gets in. It seems to me that NASCAR is penalizing Bell for using team orders to try to counter Chevy's... team orders? This is the same situation as when schools let the bully go but punish the kid getting bullied for standing up for himself.
You make some well founded points here. But I happen to see it differently. To me, it’s reasonable to make the intentional choice to not pass a playoff driver when you obviously could do so. It happens fairly often and it’s not necessarily always a manufacturer based thing. Could be a guy you’re friends with off track and you’re giving him a break since he’s in the playoffs and he’s your buddy. We’ve even seen a guy refrain from putting somebody a lap down strictly as a means of scoring some good karma points (can’t remember which race but I want to say it involved Truex and it was sometime this year). Cut somebody a break now in hopes that he’ll return the favor later on if/when you ever need it in a big way. Not ideal, but also not the end of the world. Compare that to Bubba deciding to intentionally letting Bell pass him. That’s a very slippery slope and I think that type of stuff needs to be nipped in the bud every single time it rears its ugly head. Just like intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Penalize the crap out of that behavior. Discourage the hell out of it so it won’t become commonplace.
The problem wasn't bell passing cheat bubba it was the wall riding bell knew right away he was guilty ... He made a mistake under pressure. SVG sailed passed bell and bubba .. calm and collected 😂😂😂
@@teeneauxg8681exactly like J. Burton did for fellow shitcar driver T.STEWART years ago - slowed to let him pass on last lap - then tied with C.EDWARDS POINTS, STEWART WON TIEBREAKER!!!! MORE SHITCAR MANIPULATION!!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!!
Another great job Eric. Thankyou
Everyone fails to mention the 48 mysteriously spins the 77 to bring out a caution and put the 20 car 1 lap down during pit cycles
For the integrity of the sport, disqualify them both. Send a message. Put Larson in the final 4. Manipulation won't be tolerated
that might be what the real goal was/is.. since Elliott couldn't' hold of blaney , this probly isn't over. i doubt it tho nascar isnt' really a larson fan.... suspended him a whole year for an off the track social event. for the use of strong language. made him go through all this behavioral and therapy bs before even thinking of reinstating him which caused ford to look the other way on him.. ultimately ending up at hendrick. and how I become a (was aready a fan jsut not #1) huge fan of his.. in spite of nascar and won his championship that year.
Chevy still wins that way. The only proper way to go full nuclear is to have a championship 3.
But Bryon did nothing wrong, if anything the 1 and 3 need penalty
@@ravageduckmanguy we can do the same with the 45 then. Toyota did the same with Bubba Wallace
@@ravageduckmanguythat would indeed be nuclear. Can you imagine that though, Penske goes from a 50% chance to a 67% chance? And all they have to do is get Cindric to wipe out the 45 and boom. Gurarenteed championchip 😅
“The deal, what’s the deal? That’s a little sus...” That had me laughing 😂
That was a race, lots of fun to watch. Bell may have rode the wall, but Dillon and Chastain were blocking for Byron also. Let's check Bubba's tires. I would disqualify both of them, Larson would be in.
No one was blocking wtf u on about Brad is not shy about putting the bumper too if he could have got there ... People are claiming the 1 and 3 should pass the 24 not that they stopped the 6 from passing .. 6 wasn't fast enough in final stage after leading earlier
Bubba wouldn't have had to slow up for Bell if the Chevys didn't sandbag for Byron first.
Not sure what the best solution based on that would be, but its clear to me that Bubba slowing up was a Toyota reaction to what the Chevys were doing
Its worth pointing out that during the time between the finish and the penalty call, NASCAR was only looking at the wall ride, not any of the race manipulation stuff - they said this
This proves how phony the playoffs are truly are. This is an embarrassing way to crown a champion. All "entertainment" not sport with race manipulation for the 20 and 24 making the championship 4. This was a very good Martinsville race with this car, sad it'll be overshadowed by this playoff nonsense.
This year has had good racing being covered by controversy
Joey Logano: has 6 top 5s, 12 top 10s, and a 17th place average finish
Makes the final 4
Christopher Bell: has 14 top 5s, 22 top 10s, has 12th place average finish
Misses the final 4
Elton Sawyer: “We believe this system rewards the best drivers in our sport.”
“Bunch of BS. It’s not even frickin’ close.”
Just look at Larson, going off of just driver performance it's honestly absurd that he's not at least in the final 4
Yeah? And the patriots finished 18-1 and lost the superbowl in 2007. So whats your point?
Totally agree. What’s the answer though? Keep in mind we have this system because Kenseth won the championship with only one win in 2003. They hated he won by being consistent. Maybe the top points drivers make the playoffs and get rid of win your in?
Agreed. I hate it, but NASCAR is only interested in “made for tv” drama, and not consistent performance over (an entirely too long) season.
the best dri....teams, in the playoffs not the season.
At the track, it was just fun to see Blaney be an absolute unit the whole day. Without hearing radio or context from social media, we could see the Chevy's do their thing. It took some of a us a bit after the race to realize that Bell and Bubba even did anything. But the best part, was that Blaney the lone Ford, got the job done while Chevy and Toyota were off doing...things.
My solution to the whole playoff thing is just do a regular points format but make winning a race just like an absurd amount of points more than second place.
I guess it should just be a championship 3. Doesn't matter, the championship race is often such a deflating nothing burger anyway
I understand why NASCAR shot Bell for the wall ride.
They said it was no longer allowed after Chastain, if you don’t enforce it against Bell then all hell breaks loose with teams bending the rule as much as possible.
It was cool as hell when Chastain did it… even tho it was at the expense of my favorite driver’s championship run but it was still cool. It however should NOT be a strategy put in a playbook essentially creating a new ‘bump/dump and run’
this has been the most eventful penultimate round across all the series ever. An insane amount of story and controversy every week
Fans have had something to argue about Friday, Saturday, AND Sunday this weekend.
@ just means more OOTG!
On purpose. This guy intentionally put Byron doing the freemason "penalty" sign in the thumbnail. Nascar is scritpted and they have media guys like this in on it
Look into secret societies. You have to do some nasty stuff to be a nascar cup "star"
@ChipSaunders-go2bm your other comment got censored but you are right on the money
I think its important to consider why sports leagues have a ‘season championship’
The most basic purpose of a championship is to determine who is the best team/athlete in a given league, not to make the competition entertaining. If a championship system is what makes or breaks the threshold for what is/isn’t an entertaining sport, there are MUCH bigger and more fundamental issues at hand.
In pro football, each game is 1 team vs the other. The playoffs are in place to give all teams that are at least in the conversation a chance to play head-to-head with teams they didn’t have on their schedule. NASCAR teams are all on the track together. every week.
The championship should be of much more importance in the competitor’s mind than it is for spectators. I could go on a lot longer but I’ll leave it there
EDIT: This week may be a good week for Eric to bring back Out of the Crowd
I loved the fake call in flat tire for Bubba, then after the race no flat tire....................................
"Teams have very little respect for NASCAR." Incredible quote. Who does? The finish to this race was nothing but a clown show, and there's only one organisation to blame.
Shout-out MarcusVirreal. Hate it for you buddy. You fought valiantly, and I admire your tenacious dedication.
Pour one out for Marcus
🤣 I predict Christopher Bell will win the championship and win Phoenix still 🤓
On all nascar platforms!
I was just checking in to see if he had posted.
Marcus Villarreal for the 2024 NASCAR Cup Series champion
It seems the right thing is to disqualify all of those involved. Full stop 🛑. If NASCAR doesn’t then the rules mean nothing
I agree. I like both Byron and Bell but rules are rules and if races are manipulated in any way it should disqualify all that are involved
I think they should scrap the playoffs. Go to a standings championship like every other motorsport but with a twist with races like Daytona & other races throught the season having double points maybe?
Being at the race with 88 to go after the caution I told my brother “Ryan Blaney is going to win this race if it goes the distance without another caution”. Watching him lap by lap close up and pass everyone was incredible.
The finish controversy made me forget about hocevar lol
Larson should be the fourth guy in. Certified Larson hater here, the team orders by both Chevy and Toyota should be enough to disqualify both Bell and Byron, clear as day with the radio communications that that was race manipulation. As for the “wall ride” come on guys the rule is that you can’t PASS in the wall, Bell maintained position, started on the wall next to Bowman already ahead of Wallace ended at the line well behind Bowman (just my opinion though). That said the real safety violation should go to NASCAR for putting everyone in this situation to begin with.
I hope they investigate the 23's tire. Should be easy enough to prove if it has a leak or something. And if it doesn't, then yeah, both the 24 and 20 should be out.
The 24 should definitely be out though. Not much investigation needed there. It was clear the 1 and 3 were playing roadblock
@@Crush1084He was ahead of them though, and they said in 2020 that if you were ahead, orders not to pass basically are not the same. It was only if you were ahead and slowed down they would penalize you.
That's what I don't get. Bell had already passed Bubba when he hit the wall. He was also behind Bowman. He didn't gain anything
I definitely didn't want Larson to be in the final 4, but that was my gut feeling on how it should have went. There was equal manipulation/rule breaking to get Byron and Bell in, so I kind of feel they offset each other. Either both Bell/Byron shouldn't have been penalized, or they both should have, and Larson should be in.
It's all a movie guys. Nascar is not real.
I know it's not a popular take, but I have always hated the playoff format! For me, the championship doesn't mean as much now because it's not about a whole season! You can get hot at a certain time and win the title when you don't deserve it
You must not like the NFL either. It doesn’t matter how you start, well it does too, it matters most how you finish. Hendricks and Gibbs are simply not as good as Penske when it comes to this strategy. It really comes down to luck, which is preparation.
And the drama isn’t over yet race teams under investigation
As a Larsen fan - dock them both 10 points and put the 5 through to the final 4 😂
The saddest thing about this is that it will overshadow the greatest martinsville race in the next gen era and blaney incredible run at the end. To be honest there’s 1 way they could settle this, Bell and Byron race in LA for a 200 lap, winner goes to pheonix.
Cars 1 3 way tie lol 😂😅
bell, byron and throw in larson (since he is highest in total points) to get the cars 1 3-way tie race
Nah. Bell and Byron in a steel cage match. Gotta keep that WWE vibe going. 😝
To help "Fix" the point system, go back to one of the "old ways." Award points for leading laps, say 1 point for each driver who leads a lap in a race, and 5 points to the leader of the most laps. That may slow down some of the "fuel saving" to get to the end of a stage. Also make it a larger point "gap" from winner to second place. As to race manipulation, automatic DQ to the cars manipulating the race and the car that benefits from the manipulation. If you adopt this scenario, Byron, Chastain, Dillon, Wallace, and Bell DQ'd, and Larson is in. One episode of enforcing a policy like that would end the gamesmanship.
Implications and frustration aside, we need to come up with a witty name for what Bell did tonight. "Hail Melon"? How about "Hail Bell-on"? "DeWALLt ride?" Im open to suggestions. lol
Hail Martin
Hail illegal move
Dude, Keep your day job.
"The Half-Melon"
Hails Bells?
Points need to be awarded by lap. 1st place gets max points - for that lap. Last place gets 1 point.
Add them up for the race total, and divide by the number of cars in the race.
No more sandbagging. No more laying back. No more single file killing time.
Each lap pays based on your performance.
I'm just happy this happened at a place like Martinsville instead of a place with good racing.
I genuinely hope you read this comment. I love NASCAR. I’ve loved it since my dad got me into the sport when I was six years old but tonight is one of the worst things I think I’ve ever seen in a championship organization sport. The playoff system is a joke I know I don’t like being negative I know it’s a negative thing to say, but I guarantee you drivers and fans are fed up with the system at this point. The reason I watch sports is to see the best teams win championships. Out of all the sports that I have watched this sport, NASCAR, has got to be the most illegitimate championship format I have ever seen in my life. I am only 23 years old I have seen a lot, but this was awful, there was manipulation throughout the last 20 laps of that race and its ceases to amaze me how NASCAR can be OK with that. Now saying this, I will still watch this even nine weeks in to the NFL season, which is my passion. I will always watch this sport because racing gives me a sense of ease but NASCAR has to fix this problem and it’s been a problem ever since they implemented it from Brian France, it has to be fixed because you will lose fans and they think it’s illegitimate.
Great breakdown agree 100%. This race puts an asterisk on the championship which is a dang shame.
@@codyrichardson6348Forget asterisk. We’re in to like double cross for footnotes on this dumpster fire.
ALL Championships are contrived. The only difference is in motorsports as compared to stick and ball games is in racing EVERY team is on the playing field, not just those playing for a Championship. Everyone knows the rules and plays under the same rules.
If you want to be mad, be mad at Kenseth for winning the Championship without winning a single race that year!
Ive been a NASCAR fan for 20 years and this was the most egregious insulting thing ive ever seen as a fan. Im disqusted and ashamed to be passionate about a "sport" that operates in this manner. Playoffs are dead to me.
Remember a few years back when people stopped watching the NFL because the Refs were horrible (worse than normal) ?
Can't believe they took 30 minutes just to review the wallslide, and didn't even look at the slowdowns.
29 minutes were spent trying to come up with a solution that put Denny Hamlin in the final four.😂
@@CPO-Snarky Somehow, I don't think they're too excited about potentially getting the driver who's suing them in the championship.
NASCAR was stalling big time….. they need to continue the review with 1, 3, 23…. 20 24 should not be final 4….. 5 in rightfully!
Its all on Christopher! All he had to do was peddle it a bit and get off the wall! Bubba was not going to pass him, heck , he would have pushed him if need be. Did " Chevy" make phone calls to the 3 and 1 . . YES! Did Toyota call the 23 Yes! So what. All Bell had to do was get off the wall.
Have we all forgotten Ross Chastain holding up Blaney in the championship race last year trying to get Byron closer????? So not a first “Chevy” offense. The “Chevy cuts Parker Retzlaff for trying to win by “not pushing, following the Chevy.” That’s strike 2 for Chevy. 🤔 Is this the 3rd strike????
This was my first Cup race in the pits and boy, was it a blast. Sucks that the playoff controversy overshadowed a rather solid Martinsville race.
I’m sure that I’m biased now being a Larson fan. But this has really opened my eyes to the flawed nature of the playoffs, I used to be a fan of all the chaos like in 2020when Elliot “stole” a championship. But Larson, the driver with by far the most wins in the series misses out while Logano, nothing against his speed at the right times it’s truly impressive. Mostly just upset with this flawed format again effecting my favorite driver, I’m not sure the solution but we definitely need one. 🤝
Funny thing is, in the winston format (the last real legitimate format), Larson would've entered Martinsville 5th in points. Bell, Byron, Reddick and Elliott have been more consistent. They just haven't won as much (though the 20 should've won a few more).
@@Crush1084The 5 missed a race. Under the old format, he likely goes to Charlotte.
@@easyenetwork2023 True, but even with a max points day at Charlotte, he would've entered Martinsville 2nd at best. The 20 had 200 on him going in.
The real crime though? We could be getting a great points battle between the 5, 9, 20, 24 and 45, but instead we're stuck with this because manufactured drama.
How are you gonna praise Larson for his wins then bash Logano who is 2nd with 3 (4 if you count richmond, 5 if you count allstar). Interesting
NASCAR proving it’s no longer a sport just another reality tv show for entertainment only.
Not sure if it was mentioned…. Larsen, Elliott and Byron…..last man standing is Byron!!!
No one saw that coming!!
Congrats WB!!
I’m a new fan that has been trying to get into sport throughout the season and I’ve enjoyed it from time to time, but man this is probably what is gonna finally bounce me right off. I genuinely can’t fathom anyone genuinely defending this format, and its genuinely can’f take the sport seriously with it in place.