My journey into Woolich motorcycle ECU tuning of the Gen3 MT09SP (warning no frills video)
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2023
- After visiting a tuning shop to inquire about getting a flash on the bike to cater for the exhaust change, I quickly realised that despite the recommendations from others, this shop was just out to scam me.
By showing me a computer screen with completely unrelated items on it that had prices close to what they wanted to charge me they were trying to establish where the value in their services was. Except that screen had nothing on it that related to tuning and instantly realising that I was being scammed I turned and walked.
In reality almost all of the tuning shops are the same, even the ones that pretend to be credible. The issue is that tunes are the equivalent of a religion and challenging someones religion is going to get people emotive. Especially those that have been scammed.
So as a DIY'er I bought the woolich ECU logging and programming kit for the gen3 mt09sp.
I tried to research as much as I could beforehand but the software and much of the info (forum history) is behind the purchase paywall and that gets to the crux of this video series... Demystifying the BS around Woolich, dyno tunes, flashes and tune settings.
I have the programmer... I can play with it as much as I want and test what every setting changes.
Just got woolich on my gsxr I really appreciate your videos and hope u keep posting more info on the software and tuning tips.
Do take into consideration that my videos are specific to the gen 3 (2021+) Yamaha mt09. Many things will be similar or the same. Many things will be different. Things relating to logged data will be different because each ECU sends different data to the logger for it to capture.
Mate, i had the exact same experience!! The dyno guy simply looked up the website and gave me that price.. im about too buy the kit myself and follow your same path... where are you located btw? Im in australia..
Hi Mate. It's a lot of work and somewhat unnecessary unless you just like to tinker. I do personally like to tinker so for me this suit's me down to the ground. I'm in Sydney. You'll notice in some of the videos an email address that you can contact me on if you want to.
Don't be too harsh not all tuners are just trying to rip you off. Remember there are set up cost and dyno time, what's that worth. The reality is good tuning is part dyno part real time riding. We use the dyno to plot out etv's, optimise timing maps and set base line afrs along with other analysis then auto tune on the road. Then re-dyno and check all data and confirm optimal power at various throttle openings. Hard to say 850 is overly expensive considering the amount of time that can be spent as im sure you are aware this can be a lengthy process. There is more to a good tune than just afrs, some things need to be done on the dyno and some on the road. Its very nieve to think a dyno has no value and all shops are scammers. The best way is gathering data from as many different variables as possible.
I appreciate where you're coming from but the tuners as an industry created the opinion I expressed. The bad ones, left unchecked, bring down everyone else. Now I cannot comment on why those that think they do a good job aren't speaking out about the dodgy operators. That's for them to explain.
For me the goal was to tune the AFR to cater for my self modified exhaust and I can do that better over time without a dyno than any tuner could. So it's not really possible to be critical of what I have done. There's a lot I havent touched not because I don't want it changed.
As a bonus though for everyone else I've opened up the eyes of a lot of people as to what the options are and can now speak with authority as to what is possible and what isn't.
Anyone watching through these videos should be able to converse with a tuner and sift out the BS and the scammers before handing over their cash.
Spend any time on reddit subs and facebook groups you'll see that tunes are largely mythical in peoples understandings of what is actually done to their bikes.
Most of the claimed gains for the MT09 Gen 3 that people rave about on the internet come from North American's who simply have the first and second gear ETV map restrictions removed to EU/AU levels. For the 10 minutes it would take to write the EU/AU maps to a North American version plus the decel fuel cut and anyone in CA/USA would be raving about the difference in performance.
But what about my opinions??? Well I'm not wrong in anything I said. I will assert that a dyno has no real value for a consumer walk in walk out tune. As you said and as I've demonstrated by this video series... it's a lengthy process to cover every option available in a modern ECU. No tuner is going to be addressing every option starting from scratch on $850 worth of hourly rate. Hell the best tuner will be lucky to hit maybe 10% of it.
A big part of the issue with tuners is customers who are prepared to outlay big $$$ with no idea of what they're actually getting. The tuners are happy to take the money and deliver a mystery bag. With an endless list of suckers lining up to blindly hand over their $$$ that's not going to change anytime soon.
Now if there was a tuner out there who was prepared to honestly sell their services then I probably would have gone with them and not done what I did. But the reality is that they don't exist. I'm sure that Tuners that deliver quality tunes do exist. Very few sane people will willingly buy sight unseen but for anyone wanting a tune that's the only option the buyer has. That's scammer behaviour. It's up to the industry to choose to not behave that way. Any tuner is welcome to stand up and honestly provide receipts to prove me wrong.
For instance I just now looked up Worth Race Development and there's nothing out there about what they do tune wise? So what do they actually deliver if someone was to walk in the door? Yep. The secret mystery bag.
Dyno's as devices do have value if used properly. The extent of their use though, for the average person who has received a tune, is a before and after graph giving maybe 5% max increase because the AFR's got tuned to the bike configuration and you were going to get that naturally just by tuning the AFR's.
Anything more is going to take a lot of tune development time as you mentioned, and as anyone watching through this video series can see there's a lot to cover and no tuner is going to be able to cover all of that for $850 at their hourly rate. They will need to have some pre-prepared IP that they absorb the cost on.
For example as a side hobby I sell specialist electronics instruments that I developed for $1000 a pop. It probably cost me $4000 just in R & D before I sold my first one. Did I charge all that to the first buyer that came along? No I didn't, I spread that out to be recouped over many many sales.
Now people like Kevin Hope and Vcyclenut have pre-prepared flashes that involved dyno tune components in their flash preparation process as well as doing what I did in riding around in all conditions and fine tuning the AFR. They invested a lot in their R & D of their flashes which will achieve probably 90% of what's achievable power wise for a given bike. That last 10% needs a dyno but it also needs the first 90%. They are quite respected because they're a lot more open about what they do.
Does Worth Race Development have that first 90% ready to go? The first 50% then maybe? for an Gen3 MT09? Probably not.
The presumably reputable and oft recommended mob I went to in Caringbah stated they were starting at 0% for a sight unseen service and no advertised nor verifiable claims.
For $850 of their time, I'm not going to get half of what I was able to do for myself and that's a fact no one can dispute.
And the best thing about what I did... I still own my ecu. With the new yamaha ECU's that's pretty significant.
Finally though... My log file decoder should work to decode logs for any bike logged with Woolich Log box D V3 and everyone gets to take advantage of that. Eventually I'll do a final video of the o2 sensor delete. I've got to get the PCB's made up. I'm trialling different components at the moment.
I'm certainly not going to turn this into an argument, unfortunately there are good and bad in all industries. We have built our business on honesty over 25 years with almost no advertising and have a very loyal customer base. So I just think it's disappointing that someone thinks we are all scammers, that's just not true. Anyway I did enjoy your videos and glad to see someone digging into the many hidden capabilities of the oem ecu it's certainly something that I personally find interesting. Quick question for you, so how do you know what is the ideal afr for your bike.
@@simonfarnsworth5686I didn't call you a scammer but I did open the door for you to plug your wares so to speak. I did point out that you're a mystery bag which is factual. How does someone differentiate you from the next tuner when you both same the same thing? i.e. Won't tell us what you do, but all your customers are 100% satisfied. Show me a tuner that wont claim exactly the same.
Anyone searching woolich mt09 is going to find this and you could have promoted how you approach things honestly and openly.
I don't know if you've spent much time reading the responses to the "should I get a tune?" question when asked on reddit or facebook. People will offer glowing endorsements of known outright scammers such as the lot I encountered. Those scammers can get away with doing the bare minimum because all the bike has to do is feel different. For the MT09 the tuner could simply turn of decel fuel cut and up the TPS to ETV mapping by a few % and the bike owner would declare that to be a dramatic improvement just by feel alone. And then there's the fact that they cannot actually measure the improvement. It's all about feel... and crap fuel economy. All the best tunes on reddit result in bad fuel economy. LOL
Personally for the MT09 I direct Australian inquiries to people such as Kevin Hope in Australia. Because he openly promotes himself and does so in a honest way.
As for the ideal AFR for my bike there is no such thing, which you should know. I'll presume out of respect that you're just trying to test me with a question that doesn't have a single value answer. It's good because it provides viewers with a picture of what they're getting from a tuner that declares a necessity for a specific value.
The ideal AFR for max horsepower is different to the ideal for fuel economy vs the one for environmental emissions vs the one for engine longevity vs the one for temperature management and so on.
I looked at all of my my options in choosing a target AFR map (and the hassle of creating and managing a more complex map) and decided to go with the default map supplied by woolich because it was good enough to meet my needs. It wasn't lean and hot running like 14.7, it wasn't rich to the point of fouling plugs and potentially ruining fuel economy.
There is also the indisputable fact as demonstrated in the data presented throughout the AFR tuning videos that even with the carefully derived fuel maps there are times when AFR measurements are a lot leaner or richer than the target value. One thing that I probably never specifically mentioned was that I wanted the maximum measured AFR to be below 14.7 at all times in any cell that was under load. Even if the average was 13.5 I wanted the maximum to never be above 14.7.
The reality is that I could have just left it running off the o2 lambda sensor and it would have been fine. But I would risk encountering lean conditions. With my chosen map I don't have that risk. I'm 100% certain it doesn't give me any where near potential peak power. I'm not after maximum peak power. If I want more power I can open the throttle more.
If you haven't noticed I do continuously take a metaphorical piss on peoples dyno sheets showing a 5% power gain from their awesome tune. It serves no value to me. I want to learn, have a reliable bike that doesn't run hot and peel back the cover that's concealing the festering swamp of dodgy tuners.
When I do a tune I open the software and show and explain to my customers exactly what I have changed and give them total transparency of exactly what I've done. The last thing I do is show them the graphs and correspond what the changes have done and advise them not to get caught up in peak numbers as power in lower rpm ranges are often more important. Most don't even take a copy. As for the afr question yes I was testing you and you gave a fair answer. On our race bikes we are constantly setting afrs for maximum power on the dyno autotuning on the track and comparing again on the dyno to determine
reliable overall values. We really haven't seen to many major differences and over time data enables us to make very safe predictions. But afrs are still only one part of the equation, we obviously make gains in etv adjustments but there is also good gains to be made with things like optimising timing and or ignition dwell. No mystery bag here mate, glad your up for an intelligent conversation.
I have the same bike and Woolich kit but also have the wideband kit for logging afr. Newly installed this week so only now getting started.
Are you not logging afr atal then? How else will you reliable modify your fuel maps without that data?
From part 5 onwards. I installed it and have been progressively tuning the AFR.
The nature of the exhaust change was not significant enough to need a lot of changes so it wasn't really needed. Just stopping the 02 sensor feedback loop was enough to cater for the exhaust mod. But I did buy the full wideband kit and installed that.
@@davidb3925have watched your videos right up to date now. It’s nice to see someone else going through the same process on the same bike. That doesn’t happen often. I’m loving mine so far. Tempted to start playing with some pops and bangs next. Still perfecting my Etv at the moment.
The video that covered the recalls was interesting. I’m in the UK with a 23reg SP. I’m not aware of any recalls on this bike as of yet but il certainly have a look at that bin file for comparison.
@@bagnasty7791 If you wouldn't mind reaching out to me (my email is visible in the woolich screen header) I would appreciate if you would share some of your logs and happy to do the same. The responsible thing for me to do would be to put my log file decoder on github for everyone to use but it needs some tidy up at the moment and verifications that it works for others.
The CSV extract and filtering are areas where I feel I can really contribute to other peoples tuning processes and understanding of their bike.
Pure speculation on the 22 revision being post North American recall version based. But the feedback that I got was that the 21 version was the one that came out after the 2022 recall version was released so i seem logical to me.
mate if you don't know what EVAP is, how possibly you will advice other people on tuning their bikes??
I tuned my MT-09SP two years ago with autotune and managed 123whp.
What you cannot do on the road is the ignition map because you can't see your changes on the graph. Someone may say the same with fueling. But that's not truth because you start with the factory base map. what you need to do is to take the bike out for a week and push it to the limit, if possible, by deactivating SC, TC, LIF and any other assistance function, because when they activate during the tune ride, they mess your tune maps.
one advice for free...don't touch multiplier map.
MT-09 is not with me any more. I ride an R1M 2024 and an MT-10 2023. checkout my MT-10 video "YAMAHA MT10 RAW SOUND AKRAPOVIC FULL SYSTEM"