Oil & Water: Comparing Two R1200GS'
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Oil & Water: Comparing Two 1200's
Touratech-USA's General Manager, Paul Guillien, and Chief Riding Officer, Iain Glynn, compare two BMW boxers: The 2011 oil-cooled R1200GS and the new 2013 water-cooled R1200GS.
In our opinion, there's really no better way to compare two things, than to put them side by side. It's an excellent opportunity to observe obvious differences and to note the things they have in common. So when BMW introduced their new water-cooled R1200GS motorcycle, naturally we wanted to compare the new bike with the one it would be replacing, our much loved 2011 R1200GS. For the comparison test we headed south to the lonely roads and back country byways of Utah to spend a week riding the bikes both on and off-road. There was only one rule for the week-long comparison, we had to switch bikes each time we filled the gas tank. - Авто та транспорт
![R1200GS / R1250GS | Complete Buyer's Guide [2005-2020]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9arUyUFD5wk/mqdefault.jpg)
![R1200GS / R1250GS | Complete Buyer's Guide [2005-2020]](/img/tr.png)
After riding KTM 500 EXC dual sport bikes all over the Colorado desert where I live, I decided to buy a 2008 BMW R1200 GS Adventure so my girlfriend could join me on day trips. I love the fact is lighter than the new bikes, better tuned for off-road riding, easier to work on, and uses a key to start. I decided on the 2008 after renting a 2018 R1200 GS for the weekend, it was much heavier, and I hated the insane amount of electronics, especially the keyless ignition system. Since most of our riding is off-road, the 2008 GSA really has turned out to be exactly the bike I was looking for. Great video Touratech USA!
Glad to hear you two are enjoying the new bike! 2008-2009 were great years for the R1200.
For me almost a 100 lbs lighter was a deal breaker! Love my '07. It does have plenty of character and I wish this review didn't leave out those "key items" that are missing from the new Boxer family.
Went down to the local dealer yesterday to test and more than likely buy the new GS. After the test ride I noticed a used 2012 out front. You see the new bike is very good, no question, but when I rode the older model I asked myself if the new one was $12,000 better? I rode the triple black oiler home and will take myself on an awesome OS holiday with the savings. It will always be horses for courses, great review though...
Ladies and gentlemen, THAT'S how you do a review!
Thanks, very informative.
Very solid review, one of the best in clarification of the differences between the two.
Thanks!
Excellent report! I just got the 2015 R1200GS Adventure 9 days ago and love every minute of it. I had sold my last bike in 1980-81, 1977 Gold Wing, put 50,000 miles on it. Great bike. I will turn 58 in 4 weeks and just picked this beemer up last week from the dealer in Qatar. The learning curve is somewhat complicated, though mostly from all the new gadgetry available on todays bikes. Cruise control in my day was a clamp on the throttle. I love every minute I spend on this BMW.
So the old, great, bike suddenly lacked power, was not comfortable, had bad fuel economy, was hard to start, had no cruise control, had a clutch that can't take heat well, but was a bit better at low rpms. Why didn't they tell us all that when they were trying to sell the old bike.
W
winner!
Probably the best GS review I've seen anywhere.
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Informative, intelligent review of two significant bikes,
Combined with an incredible landscape.
Thanks
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I'm not really old enough to ride yet, but you guys still make this video very appealing to large range of people imo. I hope so see more videos like these!
Wow 7 years ago already. Well just got a great low mileage ‘06 GS with Öhlins so I’ll see y’all out on the trail!
2 years ago I got an 05 with 1700 miles on it. I'm happy.
Great job with the video! I haven't ridden the water cooled bike yet but plan to as soon as I get back into the US. I have an '05 GS and love it and have a hard time believing I will like the new one more without having a test ride. This video makes me miss my stomping grounds in Utah.
Very awesome comparison. Most comparisons are just of 1 bike or the GS vs its rivals like the tiger, but it's nice to see this review of old vs new as it really gives people who are shopping for one an insight of what to expect. Thanks!
I own an air cooled 09 GS (105 hp) and a new water cooled one. Both have now seen a ton of off road, and I love them both. Gun to head pick one, I'll go with the new one. I've been to hell and back on the 09, so it is an old and very good friend and I'm keeping it. An embarrassment of riches, sorry. I also own and fully enjoy a Hayabusa. I ride all these bikes on the same tight twisties, and I'd like my chances on the waterboxer in a race held there with me riding all three. Now there is a dream I want to have. To answer one poster, people bought the old GS because it was the best bike on the planet at the time, and per this video, it is still on the podium today without electronic wizardry. Amazing.
Thanks for reviewing the advantages of the oil cooled bike
Still riding a 95' R1100GS it will not die...23yrs later. But when it does die i will not buy a water cooled boxer!
Best decision I ever made buying a new gs, have always owned sportsbikes but buying this bike has changed everything. No longer worried to take it out if the roads are a bit damp or it might rain and we get shit loads of that in England. It's no fireblade as far as out and out speed is concerned but it'll get you up to 3 figures bloody quick and in comfort.
Electronics are just amazing, always thought they were a gimmick but not now, rain mode makes it fucking idiot proof in the wet and dynamic just turns it into a different beast altogether, not just acceleration but suspension too, very very clever.
Never thought I'd own a bike like this, can't wait to head for the alps next year, you could honestly ride this bike all day and just enjoy the ride without worrying about how fast you're going. And cruise control is the icing on the cake, Sat nav you control from the left bar as you're on the move, I could go on and on, this bike has made me more excited about biking than any I've owned
Danny Bannister coming from bikes like Hayabusa, Bking, GSXR-1000, Superduke 1290. How does this accelerate. (0-60)is there room for a bit of tuning getting more power out there than 125bhp? Thanks!
Great review Guys. Well done. Got to love my 90 Jahre Adventure.
"Uh-oh, dirt road coming up, I better stand up."
Great info, well delivered. Thanks for letting us hear the bikes. Hey editor what's with the barely audible music in the back ground? Something was off about the video. Once I realized there was music way down on the audio I could not ignore it. Please stop with background music. I don't need a sounds track to my life
Great job. Knowledgeable guys!
Terrific review with lots of useful insights.
I bought the new water cooled GS 8 months ago and have knocked up 20,000 k's on it already. Not bad considering I work and haven't taken it on holidays yet. The bike is a real pleasure to ride. I have a motocross background but riding it on the road is the major function of this bike with the odd, off road exploration available when you want it. I've never had cruise control before and now that I have I doubt if I'll ever do without it again. They are an expensive bike, but this one is worth the extra $'s.
Excellent article/film, guys.... Learned a lot.... Had an older GS ('08) I put 20k on (little dirt time).... This film made the memories of the older one return with the "stuck on the middle" thoughts of going back to the older model or accepting the many +'s of the new one.... Oh well, it's only money.....
I've owned the 1150GS, 1200GS ADV, and just picked up a 2014 ADV. The water boxer is light years better in terms of power and refinement. (if you've had fuel pumps freeze or fuel level tapes fail you'll understand) As an extra bonus for those of us who get stuck in DC traffic, you won't cook the engine like the 1150 and 1200 oil heads. Plus it cost no more than the 2008 1200 ADV. I like them all, but ride one before maligning the water boxer.
excellent review, thank you guys
Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful. More to come!
Great review. Thanks guys.
Truly great video even after all these years.
Thanks! We had a good time working on this one despite some automotive drama behind the scenes!
Absolutely the most comprehensive and best review I've seen on these bikes. Very useful information; although these guys obviously did protect BMW from anything approaching criticism.
While watching this video the whole time I was thinking: why the hell did so much people buy the old GS? That must be a really bad bike.
Hands down: This is just a promo-video for the new GS, not an objective comparing of the old one and the new one.
They did the same with the 1190 vs 990. :D they made 990 look like shit and 1190 doing all the wheelies.
I agree this is a promo video. Having ridden both the oilhead is a much more serious off road machine and handles much better on and off road. The water cooled bike is alot heavier and you can feel it all the time. For the serious rider no matter what the terrain the oilhead is a much more capable machine. The oilhead motor is much more responsive and punchy as well as tractable down low where you need it. Whereas the water cooled bike felt laggey and when the computer catches up the power light switches in all at once no matter what mode you use. Call me old fashioned but the old (2 years :P) bike is what I would have given any choice.
why buy an oil gs, cost
Weird, It's almost like BMW have updated it and made a better bike.
I agree with you completly. This is not an comparison. But a marketing video for the new one. The title is wrong.
The Adventure versions flywheel weights two pounds more than the regular GS, so it will lug like the oil cooled version, but I wonder if the additional waterpump, hoses, radiators, will add more potential problems if out in the middle of nowhere.
It was reliable the adventure version or it wasn't sir?
I could of did a review like this. I traded in one of the last oil heads a 2013 GSA for a really new 2016 GSA and it almost feels like a whole different bike but she still is my pack mule and work horse. I need to armor her up before I start riding her hard with your parts and equipment since I hit tree, pot holes, sand, highway, cats and birds and a card board box on the high way and I need/want that protection for my baby. I lived off of her, camped, toured and commuted with her so I understand all aspects of both oil and liquid cool GSA's. Both turned heads everywhere I go and there is a small community of GS riders down here In Florida but all the better since I feel special and unique by my self. Either way great review on your part I have been a what you can call investor since I used exclusively Touratech to load out my GSA and will do so again on my new bike once I get my funds back up because I hate having her "naked" and feel like she wouldn't be able to handle going down like I used to like my old oil cooled. I really miss that tank of a bike the oil head GSA and the durability. (I hit a tree and smashed the right cylinder head. I cracked and punctured the cylinder head, shattered the cam carrier and the throttle cam was knocked loose. Even loosing a good amount of my oil and bleeding out and internal damage (the bike not me....lol) I still rode out of the forest and got home. I can attest to the solid build of the bike and the crash bars and associated guards I had installed from Touratech which enabled me to continue riding after a near fatal crash. Thanks again and thank you for your dedication to superior fit and finish with all your items and all the fun you must have "Testing" out new equipment. A dream job for my but till then I'm riding around where ever the U.S Navy sends me. I will be Hawii come this April. Cheers!!!!
Best watercooled GS review ever and I have seen them all, we'll done guys!
Thanks so much for this! I'm an avid long distance riding Concours owner who was recently introduced to off-roading. Now I want a bike that will allow me to do easy level off-road riding while I'm out on long trips. I think I'm 100% sold on the new GS, specifically the GSA. Thanks!
You Touretech guys have the best job!
Awesome video, can Iain explain in a bit more detail what exactly are the personality qualities that the new 2013 GS lost from the old GS? Thank you !
Aha At last some asked the obvious! Thank you.
I don't usually comment on UA-cam
but this was an excellent review! thankyou very much
The new was the one to go then and is still the one to go now . I’m searching for a 2014 model to be my traveling companion . Great motorcycle
This was really helpful
Tnx guys. Might even swap my RT with a GS, just to try it ;-)
i only rode on the street, and always cranked my neck looking at trails as they passed by and wondered what scenery was there. Got a GSA and its been a blast. There is a unexplainable thrill to handling a bike that big over trails (not too tough trails). You can ride an hr on hwy, and then hit some trails and see whats there.
Good review. Definitely helping my decision along.
There are decisions being made?????
Peter Whyte Ah ha! Saw that did ya! And yes, I think I'm going to pull the trigger.
Great explanation lads 👌🏼
Very interesting review!
16:33 The new water cooled GS seems to have a thin RHS pannier sitting far out from the bike compared to the oil cooled LHS one that sits closer in and wraps around the exhaust pipe to give more storage space. Why would they do that?
Seems like an in depth honest review.
Great great video thanks guys.
Has anyone developed rounded, angled or pointed front faces of the side luggage? Seems more aerodynamic and saves some gas w/o sacrificing leg movement.
That's BMW. Innovation and constant improvement. But stubborn to change. I still have a problem with that opposing cylinders. Those heads out there with your legs I can't get used to. And I'm german. Thanks guys.
you don't understand yet. Put a lot of thought into it, you will see the myriad reasons why the boxer is the best engine layout.
@@davidfalgout7304 😂, Oh yeah, I'm sure design may make it optimal. The old vw,s were opposing 4 cylinder I believe. But you didn't sit on a seat above the engines haha. That's my only beef. I've never ridden one, so I may be totally surprised. But I doubt it. Enough heat throws off under tank heads. Also I ride in shorts some, that'd be a definite NoNo, with two enormous cylinder heads sticking out there. It's just a personal thing. No biggie.
@@peterford9369 OK NOW I understand. You have never ridden one. You are a keyboard expert type. So funny I forgot to laugh! I have 300,000++ on BMW's hardlys, Hondas, Indians.. repaired them professionally... so i know what I am talking about. There are the vast majority of people that after they ride a Boxer engine machine, they are at a loss for words as to how good they are. So yea try it sometime.
BTW, you give yourself away and we see how the luddite shines through! Ride with no gear, YOU ARE THE MAN.... UNTIL you fall then you are NOT! Way to go Bro, the gene pool needs to shed the dolts.
@@davidfalgout7304 Yeah, I've had a Suzuki t550gt, a 75 CB 750, A 94 , VMAX,, only water cooled, a Kawasaki 550 Ltd, and now a triumph t100, air cooled. But no BMWs. The bike shop I used to deal with, never had any in for service or sale, that I recall. So never got to try one out. Just never had the desire either. The VMAX put out heat like an oven when the fan kicked in, in traffic. But all the engine was under me, haha, not sticking out the sides a foot.
Like I said, I'm sure from a performance point of view, the engine wins, but to me, and I'm a German born person,,,it seems awkward.
@@davidfalgout7304 As for gear, I've been riding for 35 plus years, never a fall. I live in Florida, i do construction, well, not as much any more,,,but I used to ride to jobs every morning and home at nite. Sweaty and dirty from work. I sure as hell am not going to climb into, " gear", on the ride to, and back, from days at work, to make the gear manufacturers richer.
I'm not against it, I wear a full face and when riding just to ride, a jacket and jeans. But I don't ride to race, I ride for the joy of riding. I don't filter, I don't lane split. I ride smart. That's why 35 years and no falls. Oh, I guess 40 now.
So many traction control modes that makes me want to stick to learning rider control on my TW200
You had me at "Wind Bubble" 😂
Great comparision!
So as i summarize it the watercooled is more of an SUV where the oilcooled remains a true 4x4 when compared to cars
The oil cooled GS has more soul ans character than the watercooled GS
nice review
What is above the oil cooler and below the headlight on the oil cooled?
Well done. Just got back from that area of Utah and I look forward to trying this with a GS. Also, this was not an in-your-face Touratech promo; it didn't have to be. Made this a very enjoyable coparo.
I believe those are Touratech welds on their engine guards. Go ahead and finish watching. If you love the GS, you will be infatuated with the new one. I was lucky enough to spend a week in the Alps with Motorcyclist magazine testing these two back to back with their competitors in the ADV segment and the new GS is just amazing.
The 2011 R1200GS has to my knowlege even two spark plugs per cylinder but I don't know about the 2013 version
Selling a 2008 K1200GT, 2007 KTM 525EXC and a1991 R100GS for the 2014 R1200GSWA. 55 years old and this just fits my lifestyle better. Ever since using the cruise control on the 1200GT it for me is a must. Great job BMW. FYI The 2015 have keyless ignition and clutchless shifting options.
Mark Scott I believe you'll eventually regret selling the air head GS. I have a 91, yellow and black, known as the bumble beemer. I've had it for ten years now and put 100,000 of my miles on it. It has 130,000 total. I sold my R/75/5 back to the guy I bought it from, 5 years later, and I regret doing that. You just can't have enough airheads. I have a 2000 R1100R that just rolled over to 15K, and I'm not a big fan of the bike, it's ok, but I prefer the GS. I believe I read where the h2o gs has the clutch up front, where the camshaft used to be on old bikes. I can't quite wrap my head around that. At least they finally moved the ports to where they should have been from the first bike that rolled out the door.
If you sell the GS try to make sure it goes to a good home. Maybe a friend that's been lusting for one for a long time.
505197 Thanks for your comments. Both the BMW GT and KTM525 have been sold. I have been gathering up all the parts for my R100GS and feel bittersweet about selling it but I truly do not have the time to work/ride this bike. Who knows maybe I will just hang on to it. Truly thanks for your thoughts.
I had planned on getting a Ducati Multistrada as i am replacing a 1198, i test drove a R1200GS just for the hell of it, and now it will be my next purchase. Test ride one and then decide, you will be impressed.
Squidracula79 So true
Couldn't agree more. I have the old R1200GS and i cant decide if KTM or BMW will be my next bike. I am pretty sure that GS is overall a better touring motorcycle but the engine of 1190 is so good to be ignored.
I love that job title Iain .... " Chief riding officer"........
Does the water bike burn oil like the old one?
I have an '07GSA with a ton of TT add-ons and have been agonizing over buying a gently used old-school GSA vs a new GSW. This was the best review of about anything I've seen anywhere, printed or online. To the naysayers, SHUT UP! This was a review of 2 bikes, so they aren't going to compare them to a KTM or anything else. It was mono-Y-mono. These 2 bikes Vs each other. This is the info I'm searching. Now if I could just find a dang demo-ride of the GSW. I'm leaning towards the old-school oil head. Never have a heat problem yet with my 07 and I live in Las Vegas.
Great to see a review that doesn't include a sales pitch. (although all that touratech gear "sure looks pretty".. :) one thing that no one is pointing out is that despite the new water-cooling system, bmw kept the heat-sink / engine fins. but no worries, a cool engine is a happy engine! a hard life for Paul & Iain, all that riding around on new bikes, trying to hide those S-eating grins...
The new GS is a very well mannered bike on the tarmac and Vet riders will find its geometry and corner entry characteristics to be as good as modern street bikes. Downside is yes, the torque is low, especially when loaded pannniers and camping gear, expect to be feathering the clutch, allot. First could be a tad lower for technical sections. Other than that, excellent bike and extremely comfortable on long rides. The ESA suspension is garbage for off road riding as well, rear shock has a harsh dampening spike through whoops. Nifty idea but I would prefer something with manual clickers and a pre load adjuster.
Yeah, the water boxer like to be reved up to get the power. Once you are there it's downright exciting on the pavement. The later models with more flywheel weight effect feel more torquey and are more satisfying to ride off-road. The stock suspension does have limitations based on the OEM budget for that part of the bike. Take a look at the Touratech Suspension Plug & Travel upgrade options touratech-usa.com/BMW-R1200GS-Suspension The spring rates are custom selected to your weight and riding style.
They are good for off road riding?
I don't know what can be wrong with that oil cooled, but I have a 2006 GSA with 180.000 km (111.000 miles) and in 25 Fahrenheit it starts immediately... i never touched the gas. Instant starting.
So I assume that the R1200GS from 2010 would still be Oil-cooled. Just bought mine.
Congrats!
I too bought an R1200 from 2010 recently. Although it is 10 years old now and although I am sure the newer GS is an amazing bike with a lot of features mine doesn't have, I have to say it is still a fantastic bike in many, many ways. It is so much fun to ride and a very good bike still. So if you can't afford a new GS, you certainly won't be disappointed with an older one, I can assure you.
Exactly my experience! New features would be nice... like slipping up and down the gears w/o having to shift... i think they added REVERSE to back out of tight spots.. but not at double the cost... I’ll stick with 2010
mine is oiled cooled and starts quick without throttle at -10 degC
Man, I own it. With the snow still on the ground here I'm getting impatient.
Great Review.
Heh, We Europeans are arguably making the best and most exciting bikes, KTM, Triumph, BMW, Ducati , MV, Moto Guzzi.... But Iain and Paul, you have the best journalism. (I wish the oafs at the UK publication MCN could listen to your words and watch how your video was structured )
Then you haven't watched this one ua-cam.com/video/tutdLZ0WqX0/v-deo.html
leds?
Spot on review. The new GS definitely represents the next step in the ADV bike segment. Now, if we can only get the KTM 1190 Adventure engine character with the refinement of the GS... that would be something!
prefer Old one.Its ez to maintance
which one is more reliable?
They are both very reliable bikes!
Wow!!! How much money did you get in the BROWN envelope from BMW?
Yamaha T7 here I come! ;)
Ok, I'm going to go "no hands" crash and sue you guys since you didn't say "Kids, don't you do this at home."
I’ll take the air oil cooled old school
i have 1.70 meters can i drive it normal
Two guys: buy newer bike (than new)
Plot twist: older bike is better in almost every way
Did you watch to the end? This video is almost 9 years old now but I think we did a good job of explaining the strengths of both models.
New KTM motor looks like a blinder, shame the bike is pig ugly, will be another GS for me when the time is right..
lol but i would like the engine scaled down to a 20hp engine lmao
"...that being said, we are getting paid by BMW, so everything is awesome on both bikes... but the new one is better, but the old one is just as good."
Touratech is obviously in bed with BMW. Although the new 2013 bike has it's great points, the fit and finish is crap. At 0:34 thru 0:37 take a look at the welds. Absolutely horrible. Stopped watching after this. I'm sure the bike performs well, but was pretty disgusted with the pandering the Touratech reps were obviously giving this bike. I love the GS, but think BMW dropped the ball on quality on this (the 2013) bike.
But you do not mention about the strange noise from New Engines! It is horrible. Sounds like an very old engine. I quit when I heard the new sound.
Marck, thanks for the comment! The only reason that I watched this video was to see if they would address the horrific noise coming from the engine. I've been told it's the water cooling, I'm not 100% convinced(looking for the answer) but I've had '08 through 2010 oil heads, and I can live with their "clanking" since they are so great in so many other ways...but the sound from the 2017 is obnoxious! Great video though, you haters get a life =)
water It's a heap !!!!!!
Marek Bogusz WHY!
Well!What is left to say!!Yes the GS is a great bike!But I always had v twin bikes!Never ever any problems!My new one will be v four!Honda of coarse!!
Silly me. I just bought a 2011 with 5K miles in it. I zip down the trails and highways every day constantly worried about the innovations of the new GS that I'm doing without. I only saved $15,000, which is a mere pittance these days.
Judging from this video, the oil-cooled bike was brought along to carry the camera to film the WC.
Congrats on the new to you bike. The best bike of yesterday is still a great bike today as you well know. I'd like to think our evaluation from 7 years ago was a little more two sided than you suggest as I caught some flack back then for suggesting that I wasn't totally in love with the new machine in this exact video.
Touratech USA The part I didn’t mention is the 2007 (that is still in my garage) AND the 2011 are, quite literally, covered in Touratech gear. Love your company and the quality is first-rate! Cheers!
Bad 2014 made I. Japan failed no parts gear for sale had to sell, 17 better
driveshafts made from cheese still
Low quality video recording
Bias review, touratech won't slag BMW off
Instead of keep going for this water/oil cooled shit couldn't you just call them old and new?