Would seem squenix has game designed themselves into a hole. The core problem with pictomancer is not necessarily its damage, it’s because it gets rewarded for having down time where the other jobs don’t, and the new PF is chock full of downtime. Nerfing picto or buffing the other classes would be bandage fixes at best. Jobs are gonna need another revision and look at to go along with squenix’s new fight design philosophy, 8.0 cannot come sooner.
i dont think they are gonna nerf picto the devs have already talked about it multiple times that they are going to Slowly bring all the other classes to where picto is the Devs already know picto is Broken to fix that problem instead of nerfing picto well they might nerf it slightly but they will still not give it a Major nerf instead all other Classes are getting buffed to where the picto currently is well at least close to where picto is
@@jaquanepatterson2537 This is the correct take, PCT in a vaccum is fine because we haven't seen what it will look like in optimized scenarios such as savage where this amount of downtime is rare. That said, its a RDM Prog levels of revolutionary for ultimate where now the Devs need to decide is this what PCT is supposed to do, or is it a club that needs more members. something like ninja being able to store mudras or dnc storing it's dances to just use the finishes. It's a box, the devs probably weren't thinking about and now it's wide open.
I disagree with the reason why picto is so busted and how to fix it... I think the problem is that the job is designed to be doing damage for around 48 seconds every minute while doing "nothing" for 12... the painting. Those 48 seconds need to match a full 1 minute for other jobs, thats why the potencies are high. When a battle has downtime, those 12 seconds of nothing turn into another 12 seconds of filler gcd.That is too much time of extra filler. I think the best way to put the job in line with the others will be to reduce the time of the painting from 4 seconds to 1 or 1.5 ( like how it works out of combat) and adjust the potencies of the filler to reflect the proper damage.
Let’s be honest: If SE didn’t force us to use a DPS slot for a physical ranged job, no one would ever take them for ANY difficult content, let alone bleeding edge, expert-only content like Ultimates. They no longer have the utility skills to make up for the abysmal DPS in parties and haven’t for a long time. Pictomancer utterly destroying the old kings of DPS while being half as difficult only makes the issues so, so, so much worse.
Pictomancer's ability to utilize downtime isn't inherently the problem. Its that pictomancer is #1 in DPS AND that it can take advantage of downtime. If we were in some bizaro world where the motif cool downs wouldn't tick with out a target picto would still be auto include. In one where it did reasonable damage most of the time and still got it's motifs? Then it would be fine.
I think Pico has needed a nerf since it launched it hasn't gotten a nerf yet so me thinking it needs a nerf is completely separate from this data, and the timing is overdue (should have been done is 7.0.5 or 7.1) this data just further enforces the fact to me also, MCH needs a buff the DPS check in this can be nerfed as well to compensate for the picto nerf And neither picto nor MCH need anything more than some potency adjustments That’s all they need The overall kit of Pcto doesn’t need touched. Reduce its potencies MCH, same, but increase the potencies Maybe make drill on OGCD
@Grrimhildr not necessarily it can be done. Power creeps gunns happen no matter what. Right now it is picto next expansion what ever class next could out perform etc etc. It's gunna continually happen no matter what so why not in the expansion raise all jobs to same level
@@TheMegaOddlyagreed. Yoshida also says that picto isn’t getting nerfed and instead wants to buff other jobs around it which I think is better than to nerf it. Powercreeps are going to happen regardless and it’s still overall pretty well balanced. Every content in the game is still more than doable with every job and that’s honestly the most important aspect of balancing
@@TheMegaOddlyyeah but power creep happening this early in the expansion is kinda crazy no?? Picto genuinely feels like it’s patches ahead of other jobs in terms of power like it just needs to be nerfed atp
Is it really fair to judge anything significant from this data, when as of the moment of posting this comment, there isn't even a hundred clears. There's only eighty three.
In general no, but I feel like the picto numbers are fair, since they line up with what we've been seeing and what has been predicted. Picto is effectively around a DPS and a third in FRU.
@bendonatier "in general, no" is correct, but by comparing Pictomancer numbers to anything else, you are not just talking about Pictomancer. You are now talking about in general
@dragonriderabens9761 you really don't get the point of my comment. I'm not saying that pictomancer isn't busted?I'm saying your theories, hold more strength if you wait for all the data
Picto is absolutely broken right now, but it's worth keeping in mind: This is also probably the most broken it will get. FRU has so much downtime, and in places where Picto can capitalise on it extremely well. There are still areas where they could get even more benefits, so it's not the absolute tippy top of just how much more damage they can bring, but it's honestly extremely close. And in the smallest possible defence of MCH, they do better in fights with full uptime as their CDs are so short that they're overcapping in a lot of these FRU downtime phases that are each 30-40 seconds long. If we're judging Picto solely on the Best Case Scenario for them, is that truly fair? If you look at M4S you see a much more favourable levelling of their damage, or even in EX3 Picto has some high highs because it can take advantage of the stage transitions, but outside of extreme optimisation it's pretty comparable to others. What is happening in FRU is simply due to a combination of bad job design (I am not someone who tends to rag on devs, but Picto's design was not thought through enough imo), and a mechanic execution heavy fight. We knew this would happen. The question of whether it should be nerfed though? I personally think yes, UNLESS they intended to change how Ultimates are designed, because we've never had a full uptime ultimate, ever. It hasn't mattered this much before, because while other classes do get to benefit from downtime, they haven't had their burst windows significantly affected by it, it's usually an extra hit of damage either on or more likely before their burst. But we can clearly see when fights are designed with very little downtime, Picto's damage is much easier to predict and much closer to others. So if we vary up the fight design rather than make Ultimates have intense mechanics that require focus on movement, and instead have more mechanics such as "Hello World", or even "Ultimate Relativity". We also don't have to make this a permanent feature, certain fights COULD be more downtime focused so Picto can still stay strong in just those fights, and you can nerf it a little to be weaker than it currently is in full uptime. Varying fight design to match the strengths/weakness of certain classes and roles is pretty cool. That being said, if they did nerf Picto? My best thought atm would be to make the cast times on the Motifs instead of the Muses, meaning you need a target for 2/3, and the 3rd is your buff so you don't want to precast it. At the same time, I would also make it so that you can channel rainbow drip without a target, and store a Rainbow Ready, pretty much like how Soulsow/Harvest Moon works with Reaper. But because Rainbow Ready also functions in the 2 minute burst, you've got to dump it most of the times, but you're at least keeping a bit of the downtime fantasy. Not perfect, definitely, but at least keeps the fantasy. I've talked a lot here, but I REALLY want to add something here because I see a lot of people say it and I am so worried about their future. But can we please not put all our hope on 8.0 being the "fix"? Because you're going to be disappointed. And that is not saying that SE won't be able to fix things or make it better, it just won't be what you want. A game that flexible while being DIFFICULT will be unrealistic because that level of balancing and flexibility just does not exist in games. Putting so much pressure behind it's success means no matter how good it is, you will find the failings, and you will critique it harsher because of that. Look at Dawntrail as an example. It had a huge weight behind it, because how do you follow up ARR-Endwalker? The answer to that is you don't. And because of that, even though Dawntrail improved a lot of aspects like graphics, QoL, dungeon boss design etc. We still critique harsher than it probably deserves, because it didn't live up to what we wanted in the story. Give them time, and judge it fairly when it happens, rather than on the dreams of what you want it to be.
I think though its twice as many kills on Picto than other jobs so the data this early may be skewed, we need more clears with other jobs before we can fully analyse
if this info was a in a vacuum, I'd agree but it lines up with everything else we've been saying about picto from the start the job needed nerfed in 7.0.5 or 7.1
@dragonriderabens9761 but in savage Black Mage is almost as good, then Dragoon and Viper are close, with Dragoons average been better but the best Picto outdoing the best Dragoon, so yes its uber good but still need more kills
@dragonriderabens9761 although Pictos advantage here comes from the downtime as it gives it time to paint the muses where as other jobs need uptime to build resources, so this may be more the issue
I think the devs said something that they are using PICTO as the job that they use to balance other jobs, so higher or lower in picto damage, depending on the job
Castor DPS should be BLM>PIC>SMN=RDM imo and MCH should be on par (maybe alittle lower because being able to move) with supportive melee jobs like Dragoon/Ninja
@@cablefeed3738 Because PIC brings a party buff and no Rez compared to RDM and SMN that both bring Buffs and Rez. BLM is Pure turret glasscanon DMG which is why it should be highest.
@jake2095 sorry if I brought confusion, i'm not saying red mage and summoner should do as much as black mage and Pictomancer i'm saying, if red Mage and summoner are supposed to be equal in damage even though they do not bring the same amount of support, then black mage and Pictomancer should do the same amount of damage, even though they don't bring the same amount of support
@@cablefeed3738 I get what you are saying Sure RDM and SMN support is not the same, however, the amount of support you get as well as the freedom of movement just makes them more similar to eachother than PIC and BLM. they both bring more support than a Picto who brings more support than a BLM.
The problem with Picto is that it gains more from downtime than anyone else while also being at the top of the charts in a full uptime fight. If it was mediocre in full uptime (think somewhere between RDM/BRD and the weakest melee) but then kinda cracked in ults it would be fine, but that's not what we've got.
I'm more to the thought of buffing everything else up. At this point in time it's not going to matter Savage/Extreme wise as we've got a few months to go still until next tier. It also means you don't have to worry about nerfs to FRU as the buffs across the board will likely handle itself in that category. There's classes that desperately need the buffs anyway, such as phys ranged. Lastly it'll make everyone happy, rather than having a bunch of disgruntled picto/ultimate players.
I don't think they need to nerf PCT. I believe the more elegant solution is to add in damage resistance type +/-%(slashing,piercing,blunt,impact,magic) this would also help to enhance job identity. As far as BLM it is time for a full rework which is scary after the smn rework. For BLM though I'd really love to see arcane magic casted through a system like ninjitsu and maybe an elemental wheel similar to PCTs color wheel.
the ranged tax has needed to be removed for some time now. picto should probably be nerfed a bit though id like it if the rest of the pack get buffed as well as sort of a meet in the middle solution. red mage and summoner should do more damage. the damage lost by a player going down more than makes up for the utility of having raises as a dps. if you're in a situation where a dps needs to start raising people because the healer cant keep up, im sorry, you've already lost the damage check
may be, nerf pct(especially the canvas skill) and bring up other jobs dps at the same time? but for real as brd main, range tax is dumb since like 2021-2023 when range's better movement equal to none benefit dps wise
and it is fuqing funny when dev decide to add 2nd leyline to blm and still atleast have a thought "hey isnt blm blm going to be absolute broken(they are not)?" and then reduce the enochian number while they still decide to leave pct at that
The more I play picto, the more I realize the best way to nerf picto is a flat DPS drop. Holy in white is constantly capped and extremely easy to get so buffing that wouldn't be a fix, as for motifs, nerfing them is fine to an extent, but you can't nerf them into the ground because you need them to be a dps gain on a 4 second loss. If they're nerfed to the ground, it would make the ability useless. They could lower the cast time for motifs, which would justify the dps drop, and it shouldn't mess up burst windows since the cooldown times shouldn't change. I can understand the devs difficulties nerfing the job, but those are my opinions as someone who mains picto this tier.
You've not smelled my BLM hatred salt for the PCT. It's OPness has made me hate the PCT job and players who plays is just because it is the Overpowered job of everyone else
It does not, the only thing it does is the 1% stat difference, as long as you don't stack the same job or do something weird like bring 5 DPS, 2 tanks, and 1 healer the LB gen stays the same
Not gonna lie, I miss the more support aspect that machinist used to have. I still do well with it, and I enjoy how it’s progressed over the years, but it does need something if it’s lagging this far behind. Gobbie sparky wires for combat raise, maybe? Maybe a debuff like sch, as opposed to buffs like brd and drg? I fully agree with you on homogenization. I miss the versatility you got with astro, even if it wasn’t my main.
It's hilarious that picto does so much damage that some teams went double caster so a Red mage could fast rez for people thanks to Picto making the DPS checks in FRU so lenient I mean, seriously stream second cleared the fight before the last LB3 went off
What about leaving pct damage profile how it is but change its fillers function so on dummy fights its ‘worse’ but still decent while still performing amazing in fights like FRU. Try a thing like. buff SPs to work on canvas casts so you’re not painting them as long, and reduce filler potency a decent amount. Now the class is still okay on uptime fights but not absolute king, and still has a gimmick for downtime fights.
Black mage has down time advantages too because you can build up to 3 xenoglassys and you can also rotate with transpose to make sure you have your thunder proc ready. Also your comp doesn't have any raid buffs to increase your dps damage. Pictomancer is so far ahead because the raid groups were able to coordinate their raid buffs.
I just knew that this was the sole reason why SE did it so that you couldnt bring two of the same job into FRU without killing the lb-gen, they knew how busted picto is so they had to put in some sort of failsafe so that groups didnt bring at least two pictos cus that would've been the reality. The job is way overtuned, bring the rest of the jobs up and tune fights onwards accordingly cus in all fairness hitting it hard with the nerfbat will just punish people progging FRU that haven't cleared. It is a very tricky situation in term of balancing that SE:s put themselves in with picto at the moment.
I have this bad feeling that devs literally have no clue what to do with balance right now and their solution will be just to do nothing while increasing dps check, thus resulting mandatory PIC while making sure that SUM/RDM are in the waste bin.
Yeah I've been a player of FFXIV and blm since 1.0 and had faith in the Devs. But the new dev team has broken my faith and if they do not make emergency changes ASAP to balance that I might cancel my subscription for the first time in 14 years. PCT job can burn in the Void at this point 😂
Are jobs balanced around savage or are they balanced around ultimates. Pretty sure it’s savages. But I agree that they should have just nerfed picto instead of spending 1-3 patches buffing everything else
No i completely disagree on this take .we cant change a job just because ultimate has downtime and picto is better in it. Ultimate is 1% of the whole game it shouldnt be the main reason of job balance.also who says that picto has more mobility than blm clearly you havent played blm at 7.1 ...i agree to buff the potencies of every other job but nerfing the most balanced job in the game is a really bad idea.
I'm sick of this excuse. There is absolutely zero excuse for 1 job to break the balance this much. It's made me genuinely hate the PCT job and to an extent players who choose it purely because it is OP as hell atm. If the damage would be behind BLM as it should. How many would still play it for just it's playstyle?
Boy oh boy what you gamers have done to this game and many like it is just gross lol. These points shouldn't exist but they do because everyone is always changing the original formula... well, I can not sympathize with any of it. As an old gamer, I just sit here and chuckle at these "issues" the games have. I honestly think Pictomancer is a test to see how you gamers would react to the future of what's to come.
wow 7.0 was called "rewards revamped"? tell that to scholar and summoner one of their talents didn't even work and square was like l0l seems good enough we will fix it in 6 months suckers. HOW REWARDING WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Who fucking cares anymore the ultimate is already ruined thanks to SE's lack of balls, even if they decide to nerf it right now there won't be a fix for at least 3 weeks.
Sample size is low right now and it's still early, but my honest thought is that FRU is likely to go down as one of the easier Ultimates with Picto, but drastically harder without. If we do see FRU stabilize in that way then I think it makes the most sense to nerf both at the same time. It's okay for this fight to theoretically hold the role of an "intro Ultimate" or something along those lines, even if it wasn't intended to at first, but not when you NEED a particular job for it to be that. Bringing down both PCT damage and FRU boss HP seems to me like the fairest way to keep the baseline difficulty from spiking and making things unfair for those who haven't already cleared, while also opening up way more diversity in the DPS job space.
Ive been saying it for a while. Party buffs just need to go away. Completely. "but its some jobs entire identity!" Oh no. Maybe they should have real identity then. Its so shitty to be the dancer in a group knowing you are there purely for the partner and party buff, because your damage is low. Same for astro. Kinda same for bard. Picto is absolutely a greedy dps that gets the silver spoon of also having a party buff put in entirely to make sure everyone plays it because gotta make sure new job is well liked, lets not kid ourselves. Like, all jobs of a role should do basically the same potential potency in X amount of uptime following their correct rotation(s), letting people play both what they want without feeling bad and letting real skill shine through. There is 0 excuse anymore for "oh well melees have to do positionals so they should get more damage" and "range tax because they get to move/get to be away from the boss so they dont have to worry about as much aoes." Boss hitboxes are the size of my screen and there are so many jobs that outright get to skip their positionals between their burst and their true north charges. Make buffs personal only, which would absolutely allow for flexibility of when a person wants to use their 2 minute or whatever for movement or alignment purposes. You could absolutely open up job identity by completely taking away party buffs. No more needing to fit things into other peoples buffs, and no more having to make tiny adjustments hoping that a job isnt suddenly overpowered because its got a meta party comp that just boosts it that much more. Something is doing too much damage, you can literally just adjust that job. And finally. Yoshi can eat my red mages LB3 to the face, because his whole arguement of "a caster has utility so it will do less damage" went completely out the window with picto. They not only have a massive aoe heal in their 2 minute which makes it stupid easy to plan heals during 2 minutes, they have a 2 minute (90 second actually if it breaks) party shield that is 10% of their max HP like what. Thats insane, talking about 13k or 14k HP the party just gets to keep? That arguement? Useless and honestly insulting since ressing in higher end content is much more difficult to properly recover anyway and losing damage from a dps to res is already rough on top of the dead dps player. Hell give picto and black mage res, im here for that if all the casters are doing the same damage anyway. (They wont do that but you get the point.) Red mages barrier by contrast is a 10% magic mitigation ONLY and a stupidly minor 5% heal buff that usually doesnt get utilized if heals happen after the barrier expires anyway. Picto was an insult to every other caster and ill stand on that hill.
honestly who cares, idk how the community can mald about numbers for so long year after year, nothings gonna get better until people stop playing about it, but i don't think the vast majority of the playerbase cares about all this.
Yeah, but this is the exception that "generally" is allowing for. PCT is such an outlier, they would need to buff every single job that isn't PCT (some by pretty large amounts) to be able to make it any kind of balanced.
In others fights black mage is ahead of picto, also loses to SAM, Viper. Picto don't need a nerf, the other jobs need a buff, although summoner, machinist and others that fall behind, they still should deal way more damage, even if Square wants them to not deal as much as the others, they should increase the floor and a bit of the ceiling damage, even if not enough to go above other jobs; its like these jobs that lose in damage are underpowered like they are not evolving as time passes, something like that
i do not think picto needs nerfed tbh, blm has been the best caster for it's whole life, let it die. Picto is OP yes but who fucking cares. They can just buff smn/rdm if they want to match it up a bit. Other jobs feel fine.
1. If the fight gets harder because PCT gets nerfed then thats how it is. This is such a non-issue in the long run. You still have to be really good at the fight to clear it either way. 2. Just nerf the DPS checks on the fight by the damage PCT looses? Dosnt this fix everything?
![Futures Rewritten Ultimate DRAMA! Who ACTUALLY won? [FFXIV 7.1]](/img/n.gif)
Is it even fair to groups progging FRU now to nerf Pictomancer? Even though it's so outrageously broken? Are we closing a door behind us?
Would seem squenix has game designed themselves into a hole.
The core problem with pictomancer is not necessarily its damage, it’s because it gets rewarded for having down time where the other jobs don’t, and the new PF is chock full of downtime.
Nerfing picto or buffing the other classes would be bandage fixes at best. Jobs are gonna need another revision and look at to go along with squenix’s new fight design philosophy, 8.0 cannot come sooner.
i dont think they are gonna nerf picto the devs have already talked about it multiple times that they are going to Slowly bring all the other classes to where picto is the Devs already know picto is Broken to fix that problem instead of nerfing picto well they might nerf it slightly but they will still not give it a Major nerf instead all other Classes are getting buffed to where the picto currently is well at least close to where picto is
@@jaquanepatterson2537 This is the correct take, PCT in a vaccum is fine because we haven't seen what it will look like in optimized scenarios such as savage where this amount of downtime is rare. That said, its a RDM Prog levels of revolutionary for ultimate where now the Devs need to decide is this what PCT is supposed to do, or is it a club that needs more members. something like ninja being able to store mudras or dnc storing it's dances to just use the finishes. It's a box, the devs probably weren't thinking about and now it's wide open.
I disagree with the reason why picto is so busted and how to fix it... I think the problem is that the job is designed to be doing damage for around 48 seconds every minute while doing "nothing" for 12... the painting. Those 48 seconds need to match a full 1 minute for other jobs, thats why the potencies are high. When a battle has downtime, those 12 seconds of nothing turn into another 12 seconds of filler gcd.That is too much time of extra filler.
I think the best way to put the job in line with the others will be to reduce the time of the painting from 4 seconds to 1 or 1.5 ( like how it works out of combat) and adjust the potencies of the filler to reflect the proper damage.
There have been two clears without PCT so far as of this comment
Both near the bottom of rankings sadly.
@@arc_4543Does do botton rank Weapon glow less?
@@arc_4543 a clear is a clear, and their clear time is the same as most of the picto team first clears. So rankings are kind of worthless.
Let’s be honest: If SE didn’t force us to use a DPS slot for a physical ranged job, no one would ever take them for ANY difficult content, let alone bleeding edge, expert-only content like Ultimates. They no longer have the utility skills to make up for the abysmal DPS in parties and haven’t for a long time.
Pictomancer utterly destroying the old kings of DPS while being half as difficult only makes the issues so, so, so much worse.
@@bolladragon wow You sure can see how much it's destroying black mage with black mages, one clear that sure is a good data point.
Pictomancer's ability to utilize downtime isn't inherently the problem. Its that pictomancer is #1 in DPS AND that it can take advantage of downtime. If we were in some bizaro world where the motif cool downs wouldn't tick with out a target picto would still be auto include. In one where it did reasonable damage most of the time and still got it's motifs? Then it would be fine.
I think Pico has needed a nerf since it launched
it hasn't gotten a nerf yet
so me thinking it needs a nerf is completely separate from this data, and the timing is overdue (should have been done is 7.0.5 or 7.1)
this data just further enforces the fact to me
also, MCH needs a buff
the DPS check in this can be nerfed as well to compensate for the picto nerf
And neither picto nor MCH need anything more than some potency adjustments
That’s all they need
The overall kit of Pcto doesn’t need touched. Reduce its potencies
MCH, same, but increase the potencies
Maybe make drill on OGCD
I think Nerfing is just bad idea. Buffs are seen as better than a nerf. Id rather all jobs buffed to around picto level over nerfing it down
@themegaoddly thats a terrible idea. The power creep caused by something like that would be horrendous
@Grrimhildr not necessarily it can be done. Power creeps gunns happen no matter what. Right now it is picto next expansion what ever class next could out perform etc etc. It's gunna continually happen no matter what so why not in the expansion raise all jobs to same level
@@TheMegaOddlyagreed. Yoshida also says that picto isn’t getting nerfed and instead wants to buff other jobs around it which I think is better than to nerf it. Powercreeps are going to happen regardless and it’s still overall pretty well balanced. Every content in the game is still more than doable with every job and that’s honestly the most important aspect of balancing
@@TheMegaOddlyyeah but power creep happening this early in the expansion is kinda crazy no?? Picto genuinely feels like it’s patches ahead of other jobs in terms of power like it just needs to be nerfed atp
Is it really fair to judge anything significant from this data, when as of the moment of posting this comment, there isn't even a hundred clears. There's only eighty three.
In general no, but I feel like the picto numbers are fair, since they line up with what we've been seeing and what has been predicted. Picto is effectively around a DPS and a third in FRU.
@bendonatier "in general, no" is correct, but by comparing Pictomancer numbers to anything else, you are not just talking about Pictomancer. You are now talking about in general
@@cablefeed3738 no
pico has been broken since it came out
this just further emphasizes that
it should have been nerfed in 7.0.5 or 7.1
@dragonriderabens9761 you really don't get the point of my comment. I'm not saying that pictomancer isn't busted?I'm saying your theories, hold more strength if you wait for all the data
Until optó runs are not happening I would take this data with a grain of salt
Picto is absolutely broken right now, but it's worth keeping in mind: This is also probably the most broken it will get. FRU has so much downtime, and in places where Picto can capitalise on it extremely well. There are still areas where they could get even more benefits, so it's not the absolute tippy top of just how much more damage they can bring, but it's honestly extremely close. And in the smallest possible defence of MCH, they do better in fights with full uptime as their CDs are so short that they're overcapping in a lot of these FRU downtime phases that are each 30-40 seconds long.
If we're judging Picto solely on the Best Case Scenario for them, is that truly fair? If you look at M4S you see a much more favourable levelling of their damage, or even in EX3 Picto has some high highs because it can take advantage of the stage transitions, but outside of extreme optimisation it's pretty comparable to others. What is happening in FRU is simply due to a combination of bad job design (I am not someone who tends to rag on devs, but Picto's design was not thought through enough imo), and a mechanic execution heavy fight. We knew this would happen.
The question of whether it should be nerfed though? I personally think yes, UNLESS they intended to change how Ultimates are designed, because we've never had a full uptime ultimate, ever. It hasn't mattered this much before, because while other classes do get to benefit from downtime, they haven't had their burst windows significantly affected by it, it's usually an extra hit of damage either on or more likely before their burst. But we can clearly see when fights are designed with very little downtime, Picto's damage is much easier to predict and much closer to others. So if we vary up the fight design rather than make Ultimates have intense mechanics that require focus on movement, and instead have more mechanics such as "Hello World", or even "Ultimate Relativity". We also don't have to make this a permanent feature, certain fights COULD be more downtime focused so Picto can still stay strong in just those fights, and you can nerf it a little to be weaker than it currently is in full uptime. Varying fight design to match the strengths/weakness of certain classes and roles is pretty cool.
That being said, if they did nerf Picto? My best thought atm would be to make the cast times on the Motifs instead of the Muses, meaning you need a target for 2/3, and the 3rd is your buff so you don't want to precast it. At the same time, I would also make it so that you can channel rainbow drip without a target, and store a Rainbow Ready, pretty much like how Soulsow/Harvest Moon works with Reaper. But because Rainbow Ready also functions in the 2 minute burst, you've got to dump it most of the times, but you're at least keeping a bit of the downtime fantasy. Not perfect, definitely, but at least keeps the fantasy.
I've talked a lot here, but I REALLY want to add something here because I see a lot of people say it and I am so worried about their future. But can we please not put all our hope on 8.0 being the "fix"? Because you're going to be disappointed. And that is not saying that SE won't be able to fix things or make it better, it just won't be what you want. A game that flexible while being DIFFICULT will be unrealistic because that level of balancing and flexibility just does not exist in games. Putting so much pressure behind it's success means no matter how good it is, you will find the failings, and you will critique it harsher because of that. Look at Dawntrail as an example. It had a huge weight behind it, because how do you follow up ARR-Endwalker? The answer to that is you don't. And because of that, even though Dawntrail improved a lot of aspects like graphics, QoL, dungeon boss design etc. We still critique harsher than it probably deserves, because it didn't live up to what we wanted in the story. Give them time, and judge it fairly when it happens, rather than on the dreams of what you want it to be.
Let's have 2 category,
Play picto for high dmg output
Play picto because it's fun
I feel it's 95% people playing it for the OP, 5% the playstyle
I think though its twice as many kills on Picto than other jobs so the data this early may be skewed, we need more clears with other jobs before we can fully analyse
Nah even the Devs have admitted PCT is overtuned and they have failed to do what they said, which was to buff all other jobs to their proper places.
if this info was a in a vacuum, I'd agree
but it lines up with everything else we've been saying about picto from the start
the job needed nerfed in 7.0.5 or 7.1
@dragonriderabens9761 but in savage Black Mage is almost as good, then Dragoon and Viper are close, with Dragoons average been better but the best Picto outdoing the best Dragoon, so yes its uber good but still need more kills
@dragonriderabens9761 although Pictos advantage here comes from the downtime as it gives it time to paint the muses where as other jobs need uptime to build resources, so this may be more the issue
They should change dismantle’s effect to increase damage received by the enemy🤷🏻♂️
@@enochflask9626 hhmmm yes, its not like we dont have enough defensive cooldowns in this game
I think the devs said something that they are using PICTO as the job that they use to balance other jobs, so higher or lower in picto damage, depending on the job
Castor DPS should be BLM>PIC>SMN=RDM imo and MCH should be on par (maybe alittle lower because being able to move) with supportive melee jobs like Dragoon/Ninja
And why should black mage do more damage than Pictomancer but red mage summoner be the same.
@@cablefeed3738 Because PIC brings a party buff and no Rez compared to RDM and SMN that both bring Buffs and Rez. BLM is Pure turret glasscanon DMG which is why it should be highest.
@jake2095 sorry if I brought confusion, i'm not saying red mage and summoner should do as much as black mage and Pictomancer i'm saying, if red Mage and summoner are supposed to be equal in damage even though they do not bring the same amount of support, then black mage and Pictomancer should do the same amount of damage, even though they don't bring the same amount of support
@@cablefeed3738 I get what you are saying Sure RDM and SMN support is not the same, however, the amount of support you get as well as the freedom of movement just makes them more similar to eachother than PIC and BLM. they both bring more support than a Picto who brings more support than a BLM.
As were both deep in the Trenches of FRU PF, we can see the effect Picto has on DPS checks, first hand. It's insane.
The problem with Picto is that it gains more from downtime than anyone else while also being at the top of the charts in a full uptime fight. If it was mediocre in full uptime (think somewhere between RDM/BRD and the weakest melee) but then kinda cracked in ults it would be fine, but that's not what we've got.
They'll remove the ranged tax before they nerf Pictomancer now that so many people have switched their mains.
And good riddance, it should have been gone in endwalker.
I'm more to the thought of buffing everything else up. At this point in time it's not going to matter Savage/Extreme wise as we've got a few months to go still until next tier. It also means you don't have to worry about nerfs to FRU as the buffs across the board will likely handle itself in that category. There's classes that desperately need the buffs anyway, such as phys ranged. Lastly it'll make everyone happy, rather than having a bunch of disgruntled picto/ultimate players.
I don't think they need to nerf PCT. I believe the more elegant solution is to add in damage resistance type +/-%(slashing,piercing,blunt,impact,magic) this would also help to enhance job identity. As far as BLM it is time for a full rework which is scary after the smn rework. For BLM though I'd really love to see arcane magic casted through a system like ninjitsu and maybe an elemental wheel similar to PCTs color wheel.
the ranged tax has needed to be removed for some time now. picto should probably be nerfed a bit though id like it if the rest of the pack get buffed as well as sort of a meet in the middle solution. red mage and summoner should do more damage. the damage lost by a player going down more than makes up for the utility of having raises as a dps. if you're in a situation where a dps needs to start raising people because the healer cant keep up, im sorry, you've already lost the damage check
Maybe give phys range rez capabilities?
Imagine machinist deploying a defibrillator to shock a dead ally awake. 🤭
may be, nerf pct(especially the canvas skill) and bring up other jobs dps at the same time?
but for real as brd main, range tax is dumb since like 2021-2023 when range's better movement equal to none benefit dps wise
and it is fuqing funny when dev decide to add 2nd leyline to blm and still atleast have a thought "hey isnt blm blm going to be absolute broken(they are not)?" and then reduce the enochian number while they still decide to leave pct at that
The more I play picto, the more I realize the best way to nerf picto is a flat DPS drop. Holy in white is constantly capped and extremely easy to get so buffing that wouldn't be a fix, as for motifs, nerfing them is fine to an extent, but you can't nerf them into the ground because you need them to be a dps gain on a 4 second loss. If they're nerfed to the ground, it would make the ability useless. They could lower the cast time for motifs, which would justify the dps drop, and it shouldn't mess up burst windows since the cooldown times shouldn't change. I can understand the devs difficulties nerfing the job, but those are my opinions as someone who mains picto this tier.
i smell a salty machinist.
You've not smelled my BLM hatred salt for the PCT. It's OPness has made me hate the PCT job and players who plays is just because it is the Overpowered job of everyone else
Doesn't lacking a phys ranged also reduce LB generation? I think that would be the bigger concern for FRU than the 1% mainstat
It does not, the only thing it does is the 1% stat difference, as long as you don't stack the same job or do something weird like bring 5 DPS, 2 tanks, and 1 healer the LB gen stays the same
Not gonna lie, I miss the more support aspect that machinist used to have. I still do well with it, and I enjoy how it’s progressed over the years, but it does need something if it’s lagging this far behind. Gobbie sparky wires for combat raise, maybe? Maybe a debuff like sch, as opposed to buffs like brd and drg?
I fully agree with you on homogenization. I miss the versatility you got with astro, even if it wasn’t my main.
It's hilarious that picto does so much damage that some teams went double caster so a Red mage could fast rez for people thanks to Picto making the DPS checks in FRU so lenient
I mean, seriously stream second cleared the fight before the last LB3 went off
Why is SE so afraid of nerfing Jobs?
We have a picto, but we also have mch and viper. It makes it almost balanced xD
I think buffs need ro happen while picto gets brought down a bit
Picto is so strong i see slots revered for it in some raids
What about leaving pct damage profile how it is but change its fillers function so on dummy fights its ‘worse’ but still decent while still performing amazing in fights like FRU.
Try a thing like. buff SPs to work on canvas casts so you’re not painting them as long, and reduce filler potency a decent amount. Now the class is still okay on uptime fights but not absolute king, and still has a gimmick for downtime fights.
Based and Rez-mage pilled
Let’s talk about why play Nin when Viper is not only easier but out damages it so much it’s raid buff is pointless
Ok now that we surpass the drama a little i can finally say " hahaha u are such a nerd number!🤓🤓 " happy to hear ypu better 😢🎉❤
So true bestie. My group is dropping physr for double caster bleh.
we knew this since dawntrail's release.....but square didn't want to fix it a long time ago so now it's too late.
I'll take a Walmart shitter over a gas station shitter. At least Walmart cleans those once a year.
LMFAO
Black mage has down time advantages too because you can build up to 3 xenoglassys and you can also rotate with transpose to make sure you have your thunder proc ready. Also your comp doesn't have any raid buffs to increase your dps damage. Pictomancer is so far ahead because the raid groups were able to coordinate their raid buffs.
I just knew that this was the sole reason why SE did it so that you couldnt bring two of the same job into FRU without killing the lb-gen, they knew how busted picto is so they had to put in some sort of failsafe so that groups didnt bring at least two pictos cus that would've been the reality. The job is way overtuned, bring the rest of the jobs up and tune fights onwards accordingly cus in all fairness hitting it hard with the nerfbat will just punish people progging FRU that haven't cleared. It is a very tricky situation in term of balancing that SE:s put themselves in with picto at the moment.
no, the other jobs are in a good spot
picto needs nerfed, and the fights need retuned
@@Vibrosis8703 that's not why they did it, they did it to avoid.A no healer clear
I have this bad feeling that devs literally have no clue what to do with balance right now and their solution will be just to do nothing while increasing dps check, thus resulting mandatory PIC while making sure that SUM/RDM are in the waste bin.
Yeah I've been a player of FFXIV and blm since 1.0 and had faith in the Devs. But the new dev team has broken my faith and if they do not make emergency changes ASAP to balance that I might cancel my subscription for the first time in 14 years. PCT job can burn in the Void at this point 😂
Are jobs balanced around savage or are they balanced around ultimates. Pretty sure it’s savages. But I agree that they should have just nerfed picto instead of spending 1-3 patches buffing everything else
Maybe MCH needs goblin jumper cables.
No i completely disagree on this take .we cant change a job just because ultimate has downtime and picto is better in it. Ultimate is 1% of the whole game it shouldnt be the main reason of job balance.also who says that picto has more mobility than blm clearly you havent played blm at 7.1 ...i agree to buff the potencies of every other job but nerfing the most balanced job in the game is a really bad idea.
Girl the other casters are struggling girl!!!! But thankfully every job CAN CLEAR
I'm sick of this excuse. There is absolutely zero excuse for 1 job to break the balance this much. It's made me genuinely hate the PCT job and to an extent players who choose it purely because it is OP as hell atm. If the damage would be behind BLM as it should. How many would still play it for just it's playstyle?
Down bad!
Picto doesn't have a problem, the problem is other jobs are too homogenized thanks to you guys. I never asked for any homogenization.
Buff everything else include boss except pct would be good I think.
Boy oh boy what you gamers have done to this game and many like it is just gross lol. These points shouldn't exist but they do because everyone is always changing the original formula... well, I can not sympathize with any of it. As an old gamer, I just sit here and chuckle at these "issues" the games have.
I honestly think Pictomancer is a test to see how you gamers would react to the future of what's to come.
wow 7.0 was called "rewards revamped"? tell that to scholar and summoner one of their talents didn't even work and square was like l0l seems good enough we will fix it in 6 months suckers. HOW REWARDING WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Why nerfs ? Why not buffs for the other classes instead ?
Who fucking cares anymore the ultimate is already ruined thanks to SE's lack of balls, even if they decide to nerf it right now there won't be a fix for at least 3 weeks.
Sample size is low right now and it's still early, but my honest thought is that FRU is likely to go down as one of the easier Ultimates with Picto, but drastically harder without. If we do see FRU stabilize in that way then I think it makes the most sense to nerf both at the same time. It's okay for this fight to theoretically hold the role of an "intro Ultimate" or something along those lines, even if it wasn't intended to at first, but not when you NEED a particular job for it to be that. Bringing down both PCT damage and FRU boss HP seems to me like the fairest way to keep the baseline difficulty from spiking and making things unfair for those who haven't already cleared, while also opening up way more diversity in the DPS job space.
Ive been saying it for a while. Party buffs just need to go away. Completely. "but its some jobs entire identity!" Oh no. Maybe they should have real identity then. Its so shitty to be the dancer in a group knowing you are there purely for the partner and party buff, because your damage is low. Same for astro. Kinda same for bard. Picto is absolutely a greedy dps that gets the silver spoon of also having a party buff put in entirely to make sure everyone plays it because gotta make sure new job is well liked, lets not kid ourselves.
Like, all jobs of a role should do basically the same potential potency in X amount of uptime following their correct rotation(s), letting people play both what they want without feeling bad and letting real skill shine through. There is 0 excuse anymore for "oh well melees have to do positionals so they should get more damage" and "range tax because they get to move/get to be away from the boss so they dont have to worry about as much aoes." Boss hitboxes are the size of my screen and there are so many jobs that outright get to skip their positionals between their burst and their true north charges.
Make buffs personal only, which would absolutely allow for flexibility of when a person wants to use their 2 minute or whatever for movement or alignment purposes. You could absolutely open up job identity by completely taking away party buffs. No more needing to fit things into other peoples buffs, and no more having to make tiny adjustments hoping that a job isnt suddenly overpowered because its got a meta party comp that just boosts it that much more. Something is doing too much damage, you can literally just adjust that job.
And finally. Yoshi can eat my red mages LB3 to the face, because his whole arguement of "a caster has utility so it will do less damage" went completely out the window with picto. They not only have a massive aoe heal in their 2 minute which makes it stupid easy to plan heals during 2 minutes, they have a 2 minute (90 second actually if it breaks) party shield that is 10% of their max HP like what. Thats insane, talking about 13k or 14k HP the party just gets to keep? That arguement? Useless and honestly insulting since ressing in higher end content is much more difficult to properly recover anyway and losing damage from a dps to res is already rough on top of the dead dps player. Hell give picto and black mage res, im here for that if all the casters are doing the same damage anyway. (They wont do that but you get the point.) Red mages barrier by contrast is a 10% magic mitigation ONLY and a stupidly minor 5% heal buff that usually doesnt get utilized if heals happen after the barrier expires anyway. Picto was an insult to every other caster and ill stand on that hill.
Nerfing the pictomancer? yea fk that buff everything else
No. Like PCT hammer, it needs a critical hit nerf. Buffs so many jobs makes the power creep insanely stupid and 8.0 would need another number squish
honestly who cares, idk how the community can mald about numbers for so long year after year, nothings gonna get better until people stop playing about it, but i don't think the vast majority of the playerbase cares about all this.
I don't believe in Nerfs. If anythings wrong you just buff everyone else.
First one ❤️ have a pawsome day cutie
Buffs are generally better than nerfs. To be honest IMHO
Yeah, but this is the exception that "generally" is allowing for. PCT is such an outlier, they would need to buff every single job that isn't PCT (some by pretty large amounts) to be able to make it any kind of balanced.
In others fights black mage is ahead of picto, also loses to SAM, Viper. Picto don't need a nerf, the other jobs need a buff, although summoner, machinist and others that fall behind, they still should deal way more damage, even if Square wants them to not deal as much as the others, they should increase the floor and a bit of the ceiling damage, even if not enough to go above other jobs; its like these jobs that lose in damage are underpowered like they are not evolving as time passes, something like that
i do not think picto needs nerfed tbh, blm has been the best caster for it's whole life, let it die. Picto is OP yes but who fucking cares. They can just buff smn/rdm if they want to match it up a bit. Other jobs feel fine.
1. If the fight gets harder because PCT gets nerfed then thats how it is. This is such a non-issue in the long run. You still have to be really good at the fight to clear it either way.
2. Just nerf the DPS checks on the fight by the damage PCT looses? Dosnt this fix everything?