DIY Ebikemotion Range Extender - make your own from $35!!!
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- Fed up of the crazy asking price for a Mahle bottle battery charger? This one works in parallel with your internal battery, doubling the range, and potentially halving the wear and tear on your internal battery, extending it’s life. It’s simple to make if you have basic soldering skills (check UA-cam for tutorials if not) and leaves both bottle cages free for hydration during the longer rides you’ll now be able to complete!!
0:00 Intro
3:14 Disclaimer
3:20 Parts Required
8:49 Putting it all together
18:12 Test Ride
24:10 Test Ride Results
25:02 Summary Diagram (may be all you need!)
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Ok, ALL SORTED!! call me stupid... but hey ho!! I had changed the cassette to a 11/42 and in my "rush" to get that easy part done... I totally forgot to put the magnetic lockring on!! and put the shimano lockring on!! I remember setting the magnetic one aside in a little bag too!!!! But for some reason, I must've got distracted.. or mind was on other things!!! haha... old age!! So, THANK YOU!! Today is my 60th birthday... my beautiful German lass has been going through breast and lymphatic cancer the last 2 years and has been unable to ride this ribble I got for her in 2020...we both longed for the day we could ride together again...and she announced 2 weeks ago that she thinks she's ready to ride again.. and said we would do it together on my birthday (today!!) (hence I was up till midnight trying to work this out!!) - as a surprise, I had changed her bike to a flat bar 1 x system.... and put on the 700x40c gravel/road tires....etc etc... and obviously was doing this battery extender..... SO ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL SIR!! haha....BTW - I cured her cancer without 1 visit to a hospital... nor 1 single Big Pharma medicine!! TOTALLY CURED!! with good food... and IVERMECTIN 1.87%!!!! and at least 1 gallon of lemon juice/water daily, It will cure ALL CANCERS... and EVERY other disease out there!! It's all about the food we eat... and making sure as mammals.. we de worm ourselves!!! (something that was driven out of our society!!) -- again... many many thanks... and if you ever require any help with ANY DISEASE... I mean anything!! TRUST ME... AS I AM NOT A DOC!
Ha, an easy mistake quickly sorted - the best kind! Have a great birthday ride and wishing you both all the best. Yak.
Hi. Just wanted to drop you a line of thanks. I ordered the parts from AliExpress in March. They arrived this week. Total cost 22GBP including a 36v 7000ah battery. I had to get a electrical engineer friend to put it all together, but tested it today and it's pretty much increased my range 100%. The money this video saved can't be underestimated. Appreciate the guide.
woohoo! So glad. It’s cheaper, and works better. Remember to take a banana on he epic rides you’ll now be doing!
The kind of gems you can find on UA-cam. Thanks mate.
Glad to help. It’s not faltered once, btw. It’s outrageous how much is charged for extenders! Hope you’ve subscribed- I’m trying to get to 1000 subs. Cheers!
Made my version of this using a long thin scooter battery (8Ah) that goes in a similar shaped crossbar bag. Works a treat. Thanks for making this video.
Glad it helped, Simon. Happy riding!
Well done Gareth.
Thanks (as always) John. Not really one for the ‘regulars’, but I’ve long been incensed regarding the prices companies are charging whilst hiding the fact that almost any battery will do, with a little protective thingy.
This exposes a disappointing level of greed by Orbea / Mahle in selling something for $650 that can obviously be built for less than $50. Even allowing for a fair profit, they could sell it for $200. Thinking of buying one of these bikes and I would be angry paying $650 for a range extender. Your success at doing this is very interesting, on the surface it appears kind of obvious and its really great for someone else to have done the research for us. Thanks!!
I can't take the credit Frank, there were several of us discussing how to make one of these and it became apparent that people had been doing something similar for years. I think the Ideal diode is the best protection but others have used the even cheaper Schottky diode and are running their extenders without incident. But yes the markup is pretty outrageous.
It wasn't $50. There is the battery cost as well. Still I agree and love resourceful people like Yako and his generosity to share what he learned.
Would you please update with a spec list and examples of bstterys you chosen or should work + other components? Would be Very helpful, thank you!
No way im paying 650€ for the rage extender. Found one for 80€ from eBay, Just need to figure out this weird pins on the cable and how to get it for under 120€ from orbea
Great video, well done😊
Glad you found it useful Tom.
Hi Yako, great vid, exactly what I wanted to research. Now interestingly I had a talk with a Mechanic in Decathlon last week and next year will bring their own road Ebike range which will be on Ebikemotion system and compatible with Orbea. I'm told a new battery will cost circa £250 and a battery extender thereabout. I will keep my ear to the ground and let you know.
Hi Radek - wow I am amazed. I guess Mahle can see €€€ signs flashing if they can supply Decathlon’s own brand e road bike. It will be a huge seller.
@@yakoridesagain Yes, especially if they can create an electric Triban 520C for US$2,500
I can't wait to get an ebike so I can do this. Cheers 👍
Unfortunately it probably won't be until next year.
There are great cheap conversion kits if you have a spare bike knocking about. I’ve a mate that fitted one to an old Willier and he flies around!
Very interesting!
Glad you think so!
Hi Yako, thanks for posting the video. I too have been doing some research because of the overpriced market options for secondary batteries. I’ve been looking at the Ninebot ES range of batteries, for powering segways and scooters. They look remarkably similar to the x35 internal battery set up. And on one of the videos there was a teardown of the battery bms, which showed the port for a secondary battery. I’m taking a look at scooter pigy-back batteries, seem to be branded under the Ninebot ES name, or compatible with….
i got my hover board battery and this is how i made as simple as possible charge the bike to full charge and then charge the new battery with the same charger
you have to cut the plug off as you did and add connectors once ther both full charged connect them in together
and no diode in use i took the bike for a ride i would do the same hill route that i know will be max range ie flashing red on frame bat of 2o miles
this battery is well below capacity from new i came back from the ride with the extra battery installed with 75 percent still left so works great
now leave the battery permantly inststalled and charge them with the standard charger so as to keep them at the same voltage it was so easy and good results.
hope this helps
Hi Kev, glad it is working OK. You will need to be careful charging the two batteries together as once in parallel, it is normal to reduce the charging current to 90% of max. I shouldn’t think this will be an issue as the bike’s charger is already quite low at 1.9-2a. Also, do a little research into using batteries of different ages if you original battery was tired; I think there could be problems with overcharging the older cells - maybe take a look, better safe than sorry!
Hi!
Really great video. Great to see
I have just bought an Orbea vibe h30. I’m assuming the same Mahle motor and battery setup as your gain.
I live in England and get quickly frustrated by the 15mph limit on ebikes. Is there a safe “hack” you can perform on these systems to bypass the speed limiter without buying £100-200 speed bypass modules.
Thanks
The Vibe does have the same X35 system, so the extender should work as on my Gain. The downside of the X35 is that there is no hack, and even the bypass modules only give an extra 2-3kmh, and chew the battery quickly. Your Vibe is pretty light though; you should have little difficulty pedalling at more than 25kmh without assistance…if you want more ‘go’, conversion kits, even those with motors rated at a legal 250W, can be easily tweaked to give 35kmh or more.
I built one 3 years ago. Bottle battery with internal protection and push switch. It sits in a frame bag and the lead is hidden down behind a frame fixed pump, so completely hidden.
hi mike, was this for the mahle system?
Hi Yako, excellent video! - one question regarding the battery, in order to make it a bit more “user friendly” if fitted a y splitter onto the battery connector then one end would connect to the diode and the other would be used to plug the charger into? - if that makes sense?
Thanks Colin. That would make it easier to recharge the extender if your battery has a joint charge/discharge port like mine, but if everything is left connected, you would also be charging the internal battery at the same time. It sounds great, but I’m not tech-savvy enough to know if that is a problem or not - some comments I’ve read elsewhere said you must not do this, but if it IS ok this would save a lot of fuss. I’m not sure what the issue could be…?
Not sure if this would work on my Giant Road E due to the location of the charging port. I would also be wary of my arse catching fire (explain that to A&E). Thanks for posting and l am looking forward to the forthcoming rides / adventures you have planned.
Blimey. Never thought of the likely LOCATION of the fire…but then it would finally be true that I ‘took off up the road like his arse was on fire’…yup, adventure vid as usual on Friday.
Thanks for the video. Are there any concerns that the original charger cable is not large enough to carry the power from the 2nd battery to the bike. Does the Orbea range extender battery have heavier wires than the charger has, does anyone know? If so, would it be worth replacing the connectors (on the bike and the leads) with a different type so thicker ones could be soldered in.
The Orbea/ Mahle range extender’s output is limited to 2a, the same as the battery charger, so the cables are the same. increasingly I’m thinking that my range extender may well work in exactly the same way as the ‘official’ Mahle one, I.e. a trickle charge limited to 2a by the internal BMS on the bike’s battery, with the power to the motor coming solely from the internal battery. If so, all the cable sizes would be no issue. I haven’t been able to definitively test this due to it heaving down with rain for weeks out here in ‘sunny’ Spain! If true, it’s even more outrageous what is being charged by Mahle for their range extender, in my opinion. I would be loathe to alter the connector on the bike as it is currently fully waterproof. If it turns out the batteries ARE in parallel, then a better option would be to wire the extender in to the cables running from the connector to the controller inside the frame, leaving the connector in place and using appropriately sized cables from the range extender to that point, in my opinion.
Good job bud :-)
I'd be worried about water ingress living here in Snowdonia mind hehe - cant see you having that issue where you are :-)
It’s probably splashproof, but no, not North Wales proof. Not much is I expect!
Yako does your bike have the ant+ transmitter near the iwoc. If yes look at an ebike app on garmin connect and you can see the ebike battery as a percent of 100 even with both batteries and it reduces slower. In answer to your question with two batteries the overall voltage stays high so you dont get battery slump
Hi Mike - I couldn’t get my ebike field app I put on the Garmin to talk to the bike so something is wrong somewhere. It would be a nice feature, but then the iwoc button is not bad, and probably means I spend less time worrying about the battery! You are the first person I’ve actually been in contact with who has done this. At one point I wondered if it was because you’d all burned up in lithium fires of your own making!
Thanks for this! I started looking into making the same for my wife. It's for an Ebikemotion from Mahle. The output voltage of the charger is 42V at 2A. The connector's output when the bike is ON is around 41.5V. So I would assume I would need a bit more than a 42V battery since the diode will cut about 0.6V. Does that make sense? I'm reading in the other comments, that I need 30V, this may be true for other types of bikes?
No problem Simon. You need a ‘36v’ battery, which as you say, is charged at 42v and is fully charged at around 41.5v. The ‘36v’ is more a rating, really, as the voltage depends upon it’s state of charge. The two batteries - range extender and internal - are both charged to full, around 41.5v, then connected. They work together; the external range extender battery shares the load with the internal frame battery so if the motor demands 7amps, 3 amps come from each battery and they deplete together. My system is the same as your wife’s, and the range extender has been working perfectly since installation around 4 months ago. The ideal diode takes a tiny fraction of what you say…I forget exactly how much. I know that the loss does not need to be taken into account though. I’m not sure what the 30v relates to, though it sounds like a fully discharged ‘36v’ battery. The one you need is also known as a ‘10s 2p’ battery, which means there are 2 parallel banks of 10 cells in series within it. All you need to decide is the capacity of the battery. More Ah = more range, but higher cost. The one I bought was a 7Ah battery, the cheapest ones are 4.4Ah. Hope that makes sense, but feel free to ask more questions if you need to.
Hi Yako. Thank you for your videos. I recently bought an Orbea gain M30 with only 20 battery charging cycles. Rather a good bargain, and i agree with you: it's a fantastic machine.I would like to add a DIY range extender too. What do you think about adding to your battery a Smart BMS with current limitation, first to stay in this famous 2amps limitation, and second, to protect this new DIY battery?Other question: where do you go biking? There is always sun shining....not in UK i presume...Bests regards. Pat
Hi Pat. My pleasure. Yes, your M30 has barely been used! Well done and welcome to Gain ownership! Most batteries of the type I showed in this video already have a BMS for over voltage/temperature protection for when being charged…the output is governed by the BMS/controller in the Gain. The Ideal Diode I added is insurance to stop current flowing from the internal battery to the extender if the internal battery is connected when it has a higher voltage. Others have now tested this and when under full load, the motor draws current equally from both batteries, and at a current of up to 3.5A…so, overall, I think the extra BMS would be unnecessary…
Yes, not the UK but in glorious southern Catalunya. Subscribe and take a look! Most of my videos are showing the empty roads, views and history of the places I ride to….regards, Yak
Great project. Thanks for sharing. Would a 36v 4.4amp battery work. What would be the shortcomings of the lower ah?
Thanks Michael. With different capacities there is a risk, though small, of overcharging the smaller one if you charge them connected together. Charged separately there should be no issues. Obviously you would have less range than a 7Ah…it’s probably worth trying to find a 7Ah though if you can - there is no weight penalty…
Hi Thank you for the video. It's excellent. I started making a purchase list with Ali Express, then got cold feet! I didn't even know what wire to buy! And I just got confused with the choice of other parts, including the batteries. Is there any chance you could put a full list of what to buy, for idiots like me ...? Many thanks. Peter
Thanks Peter. I thought I had? Or mentioned everything/stuck it on the pic at the end? If I get a minute I’ll try to get some links for you.
But if you look first, it was:
A 36v 7Ah hoverboard battery, preferably with Samsung/ Panasonic cells
An Ideal Diode suitable for at least 42v and 10amps
XT60 connectors, a few of both male and female
Wire - say 2mm multistrand (automotive - smaller reels available)
A suitable saddle bag
Maybe a separate charger for your new battery (so 36v, 2a)
Solder, zip ties, shrink tube…think that’s it.
Hello Yako, I have read your latest advances and comments about the mysterious behavior of this system with a second battery.
I have read many times the user manual of the Mhale Extender as well as the description that appears on the Mahle website. It would seem that they purposely include contradictory paragraphs that suggest that the second battery works in parallel, but on the other hand they include a paragraph where it gives the impression that the second battery simply slow charges the main battery, which would not make much sense .
I want to refer to two of your findings, which I consider extremely important:
1- You started a tour with both batteries connected and with the same level of charge. At the end of the run you found that each of the batteries had discharged equally.
I would like to know if the assistance level was always activated on that route. If the assistance level was always activated, it means that the second battery always supplies energy and in the same proportion as the main battery. So what the Mahle manual says would not be true: ""The Range Extender works like a portable internal battery charger that charges the main
battery while it is turned on. It operates differently from other systems in that on the
Ebikemotion X35, only the main battery provides power to the motor, while the Range
Extender charges the main battery, regardless of whether the motor demands current
from the main battery or not (such as at speeds greater than 25 km/h, when there is no
pedaling or the bicycle is not moving).
The Range Extender provides charge to the main battery at a discharge ratio of 2A, while
the motor can demand current of up to 9A. Therefore, the Range Extender is not capable
of supplying enough current to the motor by itself, and all this current comes from the
main battery.""
Your most recent test ride, in which you used a maximum assist level, presumably the current draw of the motor was well in excess of 2 amps. If you at the end of that test found the two batteries with the same voltage level (charge) it shows that what Mahle says is not true, that the second battery discharges at 2 amps maximum.
For most of that ride, I was not using the assist. I did turn the assist on towards the end of the ride, as the climb got steep and I was tired. I turned the system off and disconnected the second battery at the top, but did not record the voltages until considerably later. They were identical (actually 0.1v different, with the secondary battery lower. I think you would get significant enjoyment from building your own extender, Antonio. Your approach is far more scientific than mine, but I would very much like to see your conclusions. Using AliExpress, the cost could be as low as €25.
I love this video. Seen it several times while researching what bike I will get.
I understand the benefits of the paralell setup you use. But I have a different chalenge that changes my priorities. I don’t have a handy access to charging where I need to store the bike between rides.
The original batterybank style extender solution is therefor appealing to me. But not the cost or the capacity of it. Is it however possible to make a DIY battery bank style extender, and can it be larger capasity than the internal battery?
Do you have anny thoughts on this?
I’m sure the answer is yes, but you would need to step up the voltage of your extender to 42v and limit it’s output to 2a, and I don’t know what components would be required. The capacity of your extender could be much larger than the internal battery though.
A basic alternative if your storage is secure would be a 12v car battery and a small 110/220v (depending upon where you are) inverter, then just plug in your normal charger to top up your internal battery.
Sorry I couldn’t help more.
Thank you for a quick and excellent reply! Very clever idea about the car battery. Made me think of other alternatives too. Thank you!
Hi Yako, hopefully my last question. I’ve built my version and when plugged in turns on the Iwoc as you said and you can then scroll through the levels as required. The display on the Mahle app says Internal battery 100% and 82 mile range which is what it said before. Q: does the extra battery show on display anywhere or is your only indication that the battery depletes slower? Will test fully when I’ve got a better sized saddle bag. Cheers Phil
Ah - I’m really not sure Phil as I haven’t looked at the app once I selected the assist levels years ago! For me, the Iwoc just takes twice as long to change colour…one thing I will say, soon I don’t think you’ll think about batteries much at all! Ride happy!
I wish I had the know how to do this. I've just had to pay out £700 for a new battery on my Cannondale and knowing the extender could lessen the chance of that happing again as well as cycling further is very appealing.
I feel your pain! One of the problems is that if the battery goes wrong, you can’t just change the battery, but also the expensive controller that is within the same casing - which was probably fine. That seems common to all ebikes, sadly.
I’ve suggested to others that you could buy the parts and take them to a local appliance repair shop to do the few bits of soldering and get it shrink wrapped…it’s very straightforward…
@@yakoridesagain I might just look into that. Thank you for your reply.
I am very interested doing that but i am really scarry about forgetting full charge the 2 batterys.
The diode prevent current from the main battery to the extender but finally there is no protection if the extender has an higher voltage. Probably the main battery BMS will cut off circuit .... but what about installing a polyswitch resetable device.
For example we can choose one that limit current to 5A.
this device will cut circuit in the 2 different situations .... from main battery to extender and from extender to main battery.
No need of diode.
What do you think about that ?
Hello! Happily, the Gain was originally designed to have a range extender of this type, not the mini battery charger they ended up with. over the 14 months I have been using my extender, I have inadvertently charged the extender not the bike, and the bike not the extender. No sparks, no heat, no problems. I do not chance this on purpose, but it has happened. The Gain BMS or controller offers protection. For peace of mind, buy a cheap voltmeter and check before connection.
Hi Yako. I have two X35 range extenders that do not work. One question. Could I use a 10Amp battery for your extrnal battery solution or it is not recommended to have more capacity in the external battery than the internal X35 battery?
Hi Javier. Yes in theory you can go larger, but they must be charged separately. Others viewers have made them with up to 15Ah…but from my own research, having the extender the same capacity as the internal, is safest, and 7Ah is still small enough to fit in a very small saddle bag and only weighs 1kg.
Thanks for the video, just for a heads up for people, I bought a extender way back (lucky I got it 25% off so it was only $695AUD) used it fine for months then one time went out and did one pedal rotation and mucked up the cable which rendered the whole battery useless, also the bottle cage is not a good place for it, anyway I might soon buy a evolve electric skateboard for airplane travel, I wonder if that battery which is also 4.2Ah
144 kWh
36V…. In fact maybe like specialised seller told Me, if you remove the internal battery which is over 160 kWh, and use two batteries 120-160kWh you could fly overseas with your bike (in my case an eSilex) and use your motor that way, maybe. Evolve battery price is $350 but I’ll try to find it on marketplace, was unable to find the battery listed here on Aussie eBay but I did find a possible battery to use that’s about $330AUD on ali express?
Hi Sleek. I’d be a bit careful - your Esilex uses the same X35 system as the Gain. If you remove the internal battery for plane travel, you also remove the controller which is integrated into the battery casing. The bike won’t work without it. Also I’m pretty sure the FAA have banned lithium batteries of over 100Wh anyway. I agree that the bottle mount isn’t a great place for the extender though as you’ll need an extra bottle on the longer rides you can do once you have an extender!
Also, if you are looking on AliExpress, suitable - though questionable quality - hoverboard batteries should be around 40AUD for 4Ah…I would try to find a seller where you can guarantee the cells are Samsung/Panasonic though.
G'day Yako I did mine about 3 years ago and it has worked great. I've been using the 4.4amphr hover board batteries. I want to get the 7amphr battery you used but can't find it in ebay could you share the actual link please. I'm in Australia and it may not come up on my search here. Regards Peter
Hola Peter. Looks like the link is dead, Gares was the company name…
Try “Samsung 36v 7ah hoverboard” on Google and see what shows up. Panasonic are also reliable cells. Def still available online. Hope that helps.
Hello, from Portugal!
Very good video!
I will try this on a Specialized turbo levo 1Gen.
My doubt is how connect the negative to the diode.
You connect direct the - from battery to the union plug, and just connect one thinner cable from the xt60 connector and the diode?
Thank you.
Hello Herculano! The + goes to the diode, the - goes directly from the range extender battery to the charge port - but a small cable is spliced into the - and goes to a small earth connection on the diode, as shown in the final diagram in the video. I hope that makes sense?
Also, I only know this works with the Mahle X35 system, didn’t Specialized have their own e-assist system?
Hi Yako, great video, thanks so much for sharing. I'm thinking of installing the extender in a water bottle. As space will be at a premium, can you suggest a Schottky diode that would be suitable?
If you take a look at the Volabike range extender, you will see that it is based on an AliExpress bottle battery. The mounting cage for that battery has space in it to accept an Ideal diode with the corners of the circuit board cut off. I’d advise this type of diode as it uses virtually no battery charge to operate. Schottky diodes are far smaller, but do use some of your battery power in use, and you will need to provide a heat sink of some type as they get hot…
@@yakoridesagain Thanks for your advice. It's good fun just planning the bits I'll need never mind when I start putting it together and using it!
Ha that’s exactly how I felt! It was even better when it worked! (And still is, perfectly, over a year later)
Hi Yako, thanks a lot for your research. I really find it very valuable. Let me say that I am also interested into get an afforable and reliable X35 battery extender solution . So long time waiting for Mahle product, and also not very happy with their pricing policies. I would like to know if you have a discussion forum currently open. I am a fan of this topic and would like to share some comments.
Happy to chat here Antonio. My extenderworks, just a little bit of soldering and it is yours!
Hello Yako, I would like to know if you continue using your extender, and how it performs, as well as any operating problems that you have observed. What I want is to know the current status of the topic to have it as a starting point. Greetings
I ride my bike most days, and leave the extender connected every ride. The extra weight is not a problem. The system works very well, and I do not need to charge the bike as often as before. There are 2 issues however.
1. The extender needs an on/off switch. At the moment, I must first start the bike with the Iwoc button before connecting the extender at the charge port. This is easy enough, but if you turn off the bike while riding, you cannot turn the system back on without first disconnecting the extender. This means I need to stop, disconnect the extender, turn on the bike, then connect the extender. This is also necessary if the bike turns itself off - for example if you stop for photos or a coffee. With a switch fitted, this process will take a few seconds only, and no need to stop riding.
2. It would make charging much easier if the extender had separate charge and discharge connectors. The extender battery would not need to be disconnected from the bike to charge, and one charger could be used to charge both batteries at the same time (though charging would be slower).
With these two changes, I think the system would be perfect.
Have you considered current limiter circuit to not rely on x35 protection? I'm considering more modest addtional battery with 26350 cells in the seat tube that would ideally add about 70Wh so not much but also still inside frame and around 500g and somwhat reducing current drawn from main battery might improve efficiency and wear of the main battery (drawing at lower C typically results in higher effective capacity) But I'm wondering if I should rely in x35 protection if additional battery voltage is significantly higher than built-in one. Using "ideal diode" for reverse protection is a great and simple solution to main battery charging the auxlilary one.
I’ve ridden over 10,000km with the extender and there have been no problems at all, so I have assumed that the Gain’s controller can definitely deal with a parallel battery range extender set up. I check that the voltages are very similar ALMOST every ride, but have inadvertently connected the two with the extender depleted. I’ve never done this the other way around so apologies I cannot say for certain if the X35 could deal with that. I suspect it could, as over voltage protection is so standard with BMS’s and the X35 would have something to protect against a faulty charger…(I appreciate that this would be for >42v…
I like the idea of an additional internal battery, but, no insult intended, 500g for 70Wh is not a good return…mine is 252Wh at 1100g…and can fit into a very small saddle pack…possibly the cables could be internally routed and wired into the charger port from within?
@@yakoridesagain Supposedly there's protection from inrush and too high of a current draw (12A) Yeah the resulting pack weight/Wh provided is far from ideal as I have to use cells that will fit in 27,2mm diameter and can't use full length cells. So they are not that great when it comes to bang for the weight. I have to use 26350 cells to be able to fit it all in. Ideally i'd use 21700 cells but total length is too big for 10s I'll measure things out more accurately before ordering maybe i'll be able to fit something inside the seatpost as well. Either way I'll have to add plugs xt30/xt60 depending on space in the bottom as I want to add some additional wiring for lights, gps tracker possibly charger for the phone. And the "lights cable" is both quite expensive and it is fairly limited in power draw (at least according to spec). Thank you for making the video. Given how closed off the x35 system is it's nice to know we can do "dumb" additional battery. Your pack is pretty slick. But I use rather large bag for hammock, bug net, underquilt and other camping stuff. So not a great solution for my use case. Perhaps when travelling light it would be neat to just chuck it in the bag.
I ‘converted’ (made a hole) in my 16l bikepacking seat post bag too! The battery goes right at the bottom and everything piles in after it. Worked well (I made a vid !-) )
Oh, if you aren’t subscribed, would you consider it? I’m so close to 1000 subs it’s making me crazy!
Hi Yako, could I ask you how best to protect the main battery from extremes in temperature while in my garage. I'm just starting to research my first ebike due to arthritis in knees! The Orbea Gain is on my list but as the battery doesn't remove and hubby won't let me store the bike in the house, it will be stored in the garage in the UK. We've recently had sub zero temperatures, could you give me tips for charging and preserving battery life? Apologies in advance if you have talked about this in a previous video, I did have a look through the subjects of your previous videos but didn't spot anything. BTW, loving your channel! Thanks.
Hi Julie. You’re right, I’ve not made a vid about winter maintenance, though it’s been planned for some time. Never enough hours in the day! First off, the battery is fine being stored in cold temperatures. The trick is not to charge it, or use it in extreme conditions. Saying that, neither of these will lead to anything worse than a degradation of range. When it’s warmer your battery will be as right as rain. So, you may need to plan ahead when you are going to use your bike. Unless you commute with it? If you are using it at weekends, perhaps charge it in the morning and ride in the afternoon? This would be best case. If you are commuting, you will have to charge it and use it regardless, but be prepared for maybe 20% less range than you are used to. The battery warms as it charges. There are neoprene slip covers for certain batteries to keep the battery warm once charged. This may help a little. Generally, battery maintenance recommendations can get a bit anal. Though it is best to keep your battery at 50% charge if you are not riding it, don’t worry overly unless you are leaving it for weeks at a time. Equally, many say they never charge to more than 80%, to avoid shortening the life of the battery. Again, this is true, but then you don’t get the range you want when you want it. I ride most days, so after a ride, I put it on charge until full, then have it ready for the next day. We are getting -4c at night at the mo, my bike is in an unheated outbuilding. I notice I get less range than in the summer, but I just factor that in. Thanks for the support. Fire away if you have other questions! And work on hubbs to let you keep the bike indoors!
@@yakoridesagain Ok, that's great advice. Waiting to see what you think of the new Orbea, I hear the stack is lower than the previous model, hope the frame isn't too aggressive - I'm after comfort at my age! Many thanks.
I believe the stack is lower - but not by much, less than a cm in size large, from my failing memory, so not a dealbreaker. I should be able to give you more definitive info once I’ve ridden the thing! Good luck with the knees!
Hi Yako, I am surprise because the system Mahle use CanBus to manage this drivemotor and normaly CanBus use a identification code to exchange with eacht components as for exemple a additionnal battery ? tomorrow I take possession of a Cannondale Topstone Neo SL2 and I will surely need an additional battery
Hi Jean-Claude. Yes, I thought the canbus would need to ‘shake hands’, but it doesn’t. There were no compatibility issues at all. I am sorry however, as your bike uses the X35+ system, which I haven’t checked will also work like the X35 that I have. I suspect it will…perhaps you could buy a very cheap AliExpress battery to test that the system will work as it does with mine?
@@yakoridesagain Hi Yako and thank a lot for your quick answer 👍 in the first time I test without additional battery 😉
Hi Yako, thanks for this video. I have bought a cannondale ebike with an x35+ drive recently and ended up with a spare Mahle x35 B1 battery (same as inside the frame). Do you think i could adapt your technique to transform this battery in a range extender? Thanks for any help?
I’m not sure Jean - that battery is perfect for inside the frame, but it is pretty awkward outside it. My thought would be to keep it at a perfect state for storage, around 50% charge, and keep it for when your internal battery goes kaput. Either that or sell it now as it is worth a lot of money, and buy a quality, small, hoverboard battery as the basis of an extender, which you can easily hide. Your B1 probably has the controller built into it, and so would be more complicated to convert to a ‘dumb’ range extender…hope you understand?
@@yakoridesagain "...perfect state for storage, around 50% charge" you wrote. I have a couple of X35 bikes in-storage. They are currently hooked up to chargers, all that's needed is to plug the chargers into current. Should that ONLY be done when they're below 50% charge and should they be charged only to 50% to maximize battery life? At present they'll be sitting around collecting dust until May 2024 and I really, really want 'em to work when I drag 'em out to ride again. Thanks!
@larryt - once they are at 50% charge, they can be stored for a year untouched…if in good storage conditions. Too cold or too hot could badly affect your batteries…the perfect temp is a constant 59f (but who has that!) If they are in a house, great. A shed…it depends…you REALLY don’t want them to freeze, but scorching temps are also to be avoided…
dose the diode have a earth that goes to the negatives on battery and bike any chance of a wiring diagram
It does. I mention that in the vid and explain where to connect the cable from the diode’s earth - there is also a diagram at the end of the vid.
This looks like a really great project to get stuck into. I'm thinking of making one for my dad for his 73rd birthday who is always complaining about the cost of the official battery bank orbea sell. He's not wrong. Would a 36v battery ( non hoverboard) work in place of what you have? I ask because I'd like to 3d print a bottle type holder for the spare cage he never uses. Not sure the battery pack you suggest will fit. I'm also struggling to see where I can find the four pin cable. I really don't want to have to buy a new charger and slice it open to use the proprietary connector! Sort of defeats the purpose of doing it diy. Any suggestions welcome! I also don't want to have to cut his existing charger as he's won't like that. 😂
Hi Aaron. You are thinking of making up your own battery from cells and a BMS? If not, search for 36v bottle batteries on AliExpress. The smaller 6-7Ah ones look neatest - and come with a holder that screws into the bottle cage lugs on the frame, and their own chargers.. The ideal diode's circuit board can be trimmed to fit into the base of the mount that is provided - it's a really neat and simple way to go. I did, after months of looking, find a source of the unusual ebikemotion plug and cable from, ah, Powatech? Check that on eBay and see if it comes up. I talked with them and they are cool with providing the plug and cable for 18GBP but you must ask directly - it is not a line item.
@@yakoridesagain Sorry ..... i found it
Thanks
Hi Yako, So I built my range extender and it worked perfectly until I was out one day and forgot to connect the extender before setting off on a hilly route. About 10km in my iWOC went green, which alerted me to the issue, I connected the range extender, switched back on and then disaster! I got the pink flashing light of death and fault code #197 on the app which is an overcurrent fault. This isn't meant to be a criticism, rather a warning to those with their extenders not to make the same mistake!
oh no! I’ve been told by others that they have done this with no problems but I’ve never tried it myself (on the last bit of the vid I do point out not to connect the two batteries if they are more than 0.25v different). I hope it was a simple reset by the Orbea dealer?
@@yakoridesagain Thanks Yako. I was lucky this time. It reset itself the next morning so happy days. I'm currently (pardon the pun) looking at some kind of safety circuit in case I have another brain fade. Apart from that, it's been an absolute godsend in the Pyreneés!
Phew! Happy about that! So…you just waited, recharged both and voila? You’re in the Pyrenees? Fantastic! I need to get a bit fitter/healthier but have so many rides I want to do there. Whereabouts are/were you?
@@yakoridesagain I took the range extender off then the next morning I turned the iWOC on and the fault had gone. I was lucky indeed. I recharged the main battery then reconnected the extender. All seems good 🤞. I was in the Pyreés Atlantique, not far from Oloron Sainte Marie and did the Col de Marie Blanc and the Col de Soudet.
Looking at the XT60 connections then in your video you connected a male to the ideal diode because the battery already has a female, but I noticed in your video that your Ebikemotion charger was then fitted with a female……so how do you charge the extender battery as that’d be female to female? - or did I miss something 😂
I bought a cheapo 2a 36v charger so I can charge both batteries at the same time. Flippin’ eagle-eyed, you! Impressive! Forgot to mention that.
Interesting and I don't have an e-bike. You should extend battery life by reducing the number of charge cycles.
Exactly, Brian. Best way to put off that time when a new internal battery and the second mortgage required to buy it comes around.
I just went ahead and bought the JubaTec battery to use as the extender... I decided I liked the sounds of them.... got speaking with one of their team.. so all good............. Next job... is it possible to make an extender for my eMTB you think?? It has a whopping 48v 17.5Ah battery on it.... any ideas?
The Juba Tec looks decent, so I’m sure you’ll be fine. Re your eMTB - how far do you want to ride lol! You live on an island! seriously though, there is a company called Volabike that make extenders that work like my DIY one, and they make extenders for just about all systems…so you could try it…I wouldn’t, not without lots and lots of research…or cheap spares in case something gets fried…
@@yakoridesagain yeah.... your right...I would like to do the Tramuntana Mountains full route..I've done it plenty on road bike obviously.. but there is a MTB way too... 1 battery wouldn't be enough... and I guess even an extender wouldn't be enough!! It's a big ride....maybe I'll just do it on an ordinary MTB. The eMTB/MTB trails here are extremely difficult... so it doesn't take alot to use up the battery.... but in the whole, it's good enough. I know Volabike
Thank you for this awesome Video! Which forum are you referring to, when saying other people have done it?
I would really like to build my own, but like to see as many builds as possible before making plans :) thanka again I love your videos
Check e-bikereview and Pedelecs forums, but you’ll have to do some digging to find the relevant posts. Good luck. It is a very basic design, easy to make, and works better than the original, seemingly with fewer faults. Thanks for the support!
Oh, and by fewer faults, I mean none - I made a follow-up vid a month or two ago.
@@yakoridesagain Thanks a lot!!! the parralel connection seems really promising!! I am just worried about the voltage situation when connecting the two batteries... needing to check the voltage of each battery before connetcting seems annoing in every day life.
That’s in the video as a precaution. As long as the battery charger goes green for each battery, I know that the voltages are close enough to connect the two. I check the two batteries, fully charged, to establish that this is still the case every month or two.
I understand, that sounds pretty good! But you couldn't ride somewhere, dissconnect the batterypack, charge it and connect it for the ride back home, right? could you discconnect it (so it doesnt get stolen) without charging and then reconnect it again for the ride home? I live in a big city and would need to be able to take the extender on and off quite often. Thanks again for your great work and videos!!! :) @@yakoridesagain
Hiya back again, as spring comes this project has been restarted in my house. You mention at the start of the video a battery with charge and discharge cable may be better, as you can charge both batteries at the same time. What would be different to what's detailed in this video?
Nothing. You would just need to buy the correct plug to fit the charge plug on the extender battery and solder that on in place of the plug you have cut off. Three things though,
1. the batteries would have to have the same capacity, 7Ah, to safely charge them together,
2. charging would obviously take twice as long, say 7ish hours.
3. You would need to have the batteries connected together, always, as you would have no means of charging just one, and to connect the batteries they must be at almost exactly the same voltage….so if you disconnected then and rode with just the internal battery, you could not reconnect them safely.
With hindsight, I am glad that I have two chargers for the two batteries, and can ride with just the internal battery if I choose. Checking the voltage is the same before I connect is no problem.
Hope that makes sense. Ask away if you have questions.
@@yakoridesagainThanks. Was thinking, in the orbea cable that is cut, does this contain only a positive and negative or is there also a data cable?
Uf. It was a while ago…if there are 2 more cables, and I’m not sure there were, just hook up the two big ones. Sorry.
My girlfriend actually bought a range extender for her Orbea Optima. It broke down after almost 2 years. They did replace it (it was still under warranty), but that also broke down after not even a year! The same issue happened on both batteries, it seems I could charge them fully. But they don't charge the internal battery any more. They don't add another 2 years to the replacement, so I have to find another solution, but it won't be buying another new one that's for sure. I'm wondering what I could replace on my end, so I don't have to spend another fortune. Or in the end I make this for her. Maybe it's time how to learn to solder! 😅
Yes, you really should Edwin! You could buy the parts and ask for the few solders joints to be made by an electrical appliance repair shop…
one word of warning if you go ahead. To be extra safe, check that the voltage of your fully- charged internal battery is close in voltage to the fully-charged external battery that you buy before connecting.
This is a cheap alternative that works, however. Good luck!
@@yakoridesagain Orbea didn't want to replace the battery, but I'm glad Mahle wanted to replace it. Glad it worked out. If this one breaks down, I'm going to make one myself! :)
Very glad it worked out Edwin. Ride happy!
being a total novice to electrics etc.... (but very handy person!) great video.. my wife has a Ribble ebikmotion x35 so definitely gonna give this a try.... I'm just wanting to ask... the exact size of this multi strand cable? I have found on aliexpress XT60 connectors (male and female) already soldered up, so was thinking for the littler cost of them it would save me soldering... and just remove 1 side?? the cable is 400mm long (red & black) and thought this would save me hassle? but then I see I need to splice a pieece from negative to the GRD (which I can handle... this cable is XT60 Female Plug To XT60 Male Plug Adapter Connector With 400mm 14AWG Silicone Wire - is this ok to use and do like I said??? I have solder iron and eelctronics solder etc etc...
I used 2.5mm2, which is 14awg. So yes, you could use the presoldered connectors, but will need to connect the 3 negatives together - from the xt60, from the charger cable you have cut off, and from the earth point on the diode…but the earth does need to be soldered onto the diode’s circuit board. If you splice together the three negatives I’d also put a dab of solder on that too and use shrink tubing - electrican tape will always peel off. Good luck, any questions just ask!
@@yakoridesagain ok bud... thanks for quick reply... I just thought buy the pre done XT60's from Ali.. as they are cheap... was gonna get the 40cm long cable ones... that should be plenty... I'll buy 2 (as very cheap) and chop... yeah about the 3 positives.. I know how to do a Sparky splice for the 3-way (grew up in Construction my whole life but now a cycling guide on Mallorca!! haha - retired cycling guide too!!) I bought this Ribble for my missus so she can keep up on climbs... and helps train me too! (these bikes hopeless on the flat though!! and not worth the €175 for the dongle thingy!! not to get 2-3km more!! Found this by chance.. great job!! I'm gonna change her Ribble to flat bar, 1 x etc etc (it is the Gravel version!) Back wen I bought it originally, they didn't offer the option of a flat bar! Ofcourse, nowadays, I wouldn't buy any kind of bicycle from any brand!! I build my own.. just recently built my own eMTb! best thing I've ever done!! Designed it, sprayed it... done the decals/ artwork etc etc...But I am new to ebike's (being a roadie my whole life - a serious one at that!! haha - or was!) If your ever on Mallorca... look me up...I'll give you a freebie off road tour here (hard to find the hidden off roads here!! and best with a guide) If I have anymore questions... will ask here if that's ok bud... cheers...(A Scot stuck on Mallorca!!)
@@martintramuntbikemallorcak481 Well you’re just across the water from me! If I ever make it across I’ll def look you up. Remember the sun screen mate !-)
@@yakoridesagain NEVER touch that stuff bud!!! NEVER!! noone should!! My lass is a Skincare specialist... (best in Germany and on Mallorca!!) - here's a wee bit of free advice... call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever... (I wear my silver hat well.. and proudly!) but ALL them skin lotions they sell you, they ared designed to give you problems!! not make it good for you!!! trust me... slow build up, using only natural coconut oil etc etc... is way to go... ALWAYS!! My body is totally adjusted to living in hot climes nowadays (been here a long time bud) - but don't take it from me, take it from one of the BEST natural skincare specialists on the planet!!! your more likely to get SKIN CANCER using "their" sun screen lotions than without...let your body (which has the BEST built in system of any MAMMAL on this world) to do it for you....Lot's more I could say... but that's it for now.. thanks mate... If I get stuck..(I shouldn't) I'll holler!! and yes, if your ever over here... I recommend one of my eMTB tours... I cater for ALL standards...but the Road tours are pretty damned good too!!! haha... cheers
Found it a superb option, what's it like 12 months later?
Absolutely brilliant Pete, no issues at all.
Hi thanks for video. I am very interested in creating my own. I noted the battery needs to be 36v and you have a 7ah battery, could you go for a larger ah battery to extend the range?
Though the answer is technically yes, you could use a larger capacity extender battery, I would advise against it, as when I was researching this I found so many arguments against it, then so many saying it is no problem, that I decided to play it safe and make the capacities the same. I’ve had zero problems in 20 months.
@@yakoridesagain thanks for taking the time to get back. I'll be on one of these soon.
this is a great video any updates since making it thanks
I was thinking of making an update vid - but essentially it works perfectly, I’ve done thousands of kms with it. I’ve just found a source of the Ebikemotion plugs so you don’t have to chop up your charger anymore. Look up powatechnic09 on EBay. You will have to ask specifically for the Ebikemotion plug and lead, they are after £18 (!) for them.
@@yakoridesagain that's great I will gather bits and copy your plan beats paying out €550 for one.
Very good recapitulation. Well, I understand that your battery extender consists of a battery pack in 10S configuration and probably 2P, with a current capacity that I do not know . I also understand that you placed a diode to block reverse current to the extender. As for the connection, I understand that you do it directly to the charging connector of the main battery of the ebike. It is right?
All correct, Antonio. The extender battery is 7ah.
@@yakoridesagain OK Yako, knowing what you have managed to do so far, I am going to allow myself to summarize what I have investigated about the Mahle X35 system and its battery extender. This will allow you to understand the improvements that I propose to achieve a system very similar to the Mahle extender.
You probably already know a lot of this, but it will serve as a basis for improvements:
1) The X35 BMS is a Split Port type, that is, there is one input port for charging current, and there is one output port for power to the motor. See attached drawing for reference.
2) The ports never work simultaneously, that is, if the motor output port is supplying power, the load input port is disabled and vice versa.
3) The extender battery is never in parallel with the motor.
4) The extender battery behaves the same as the main battery charger. Therefore it must have the same electrical characteristics: V less than or equal to 42 V and charge current equal to 2 A. This value of charge current must be strictly respected since a slow charge (less than 1C) avoids battery degradation. See attached graph.
5) Main battery never will charge the extender battery.
...I'm sorry but youtuve does not allow me to attach the mentioned illustrations, it is for this reason that I suggest we move to a discussion forum that allows all facilities. Why not this forum?
If you agree, please open a thread. Thanks
electricbikereview.com/forums/forum/orbea/
@@antonioalfaro9897 hi - I have been speaking (messaging) and following @Wooly Chewbakker regarding your joint module project ……..“A device that will allow any 36V battery to be connected to the bike. It limits the charging current to 2.0 Amps and the Open Circuit Voltage is set at 42.1V to ensure charging” as he says you have been a great help in its development and that you are preparing a detailed document and I would love to be able to make such a module for myself to use on my Ribble X35 system and wanted to ask if I might be able to ask for a copy of your detailed document ? - best regards, Colin.
@Wooly Chewbakker Excellent- that’s a coincidence, I’ve also got a Ribble CGRAl-e, riding it since Jan 2020 and clocked up circa 8,500 miles and so am VERY interested in how you get on….I did ping a message to Antonio expressing my deepest interest but unfortunately not heard anything back yet 🥹
Please do let me know how it all goes! - and best of luck!!
Hi, just wanted to see how you’d got on with your extender battery? - unfortunately still no message from Antonio 😬 - keen to get some detail so I can get one underway 😃
Thanks for this, much as I like the Mahle system I wasn't happy about what appears to be the rip-off range extender price, however if I can get a cheap DIY version then it all becomes much more attractive.
It does. Should help with the longevity of the internal battery too, important when a new one is €600+. If you are careful with cell choice in your hoverboard battery, 300 or even 320Wh are possible (mine is 252Wh, the Mahle one 208Wh). Don’t believe the hype with Chinese batteries that claim higher than this. Good luck!
@@yakoridesagain this is a fantastic tip for every X35+ owner. Just bought a Meriva eSilex 400 with the same system if your Orbea.
Would it be possible to have a list of the elements to buy? It would be fantastic if you could also provide the links where to find it.
Sorry but as a non-native speaker, it's challenging to understand exactly what's needed to assemble it.
Thank you in advance from Italy
Vito: è possibile acquistare tutto da Ebay, per esempio:
XT60 connettore, www.ebay.it/itm/172225507077
Ideale diodo, www.ebay.it/itm/403219295120
Batteria de hoverboard, www.ebay.it/itm/373657202909
Tubo termorectractil, www.ebay.it/itm/254290021051
Eléctrico cavó,, www.ebay.it/itm/224927427440
borsa del reggisella - bene, sono sicuro che puoi trovare questo!
Yako
@@yakoridesagain Thanks! expecially for your italian! :)
Still missing the connector but I'm confident we'll find it sooner or later
Which it's the right one?
hi again bud..... I've done all the things required and am just waiting on the hover board battery arriving from Aliexpress......but everything is working so far!! A question though... I've just noticed I have ordered this battery - Hover Board Battery 36v 10s2p 4400mAh Lithium Battery Pack - and now see that u mention it should be a 7Ah??? will this mean I don't get as far?? maybe I can send it back and get another one..... what you think?
also..... just checking here... but I have now got everything done and just awaiting delivery of "suitable" hover board battery.... (I will re-order a 7Ah as soon as you answer my question above) - but I notice, I have the diode all connected up and did the XT60 connectors onto the chargers etc.. so, when I connect the existing charger everything lights up...and the iWoc light comes on... and when it's full and solid white light, when i unplug the charger XT60 within the saddle bag... the white light stays on.... and I then need to hold the button in to switch off.....Is this normal?? or have I done something wrong?
That 4.4Ah battery will be fine, but you are right, 7Ah will take you further. People also say it is generally a better idea if the capacities of the two batteries are the same, but this is mostly if you are charging the two batteries together, which I don’t advise.
perfectly normal! When you connect up via the charging socket you are switching the system on, so you have to switch it off via the iwoc. One other thing to remember, if you stop for any length of time, the internal system switches off. Obvious when you don’t have the extender fitted, as the Iwoc light goes off, and when you get back on, you think ‘oh, I need to switch the system back on!’. But because your extender is connected, the Iwoc stays lit. You then get back on your bike and ride off, but you have no assist, and you won’t be able to change the assist levels. This is because your system IS actually off. All you need to do it unplug the extender from the charge port, wait a second, and plug it back in. the system will come on as normal.
It took me ages to discover what was going on! Sounds a bit complicated, but isn’t. Unplug/replug after any long stops.
@@yakoridesagain haha.... ofcourse... that thought had entered my head when I was standing here looking at it... thanks for the quick response bud....I think I'll send this 4Ah one back.... already have the 7Ah in the trolly!! it just takes so bloody long for them to deliver here!! but hey ho... be worth the wait (it's not my bike.. it's my Lass's) It's a Ribble
CGR AL E...it's from 2020.... and I am making it into a flat bar 1x bike (like on their website...) and I got some 700x40c gravel tires on it too.... just need this hover battery and the work is complete... thanks for the heads up on that, very much appreciated..... Hot Hot here now.... must be same for u.... I'm spending more time swimming than riding... but have some guiding next week!! cheers
Hello and thank you very much for the video. It inspired me to get my own bottle battery and mount it on my Desiknio that has the same X35 system as yours. Instead of cutting my charger wire to use the connector, I ordered the MAHLE Smartbike Systems Extension Wire for GCU and I intend to use it as the connector for the bottle to the bike. As I was splicing the "Extension Wire for GCU" cable and trying to figure out which wires corresponds to the male pins at the connector, I noticed that the red (positive) has a built-in diode ! Did you notice the same thing with the charger connector ? Also, weirdly enough the extension wire has 5 cables but only 4 pins ?? A blue cable is there but doesn't seem to be connected to any of the pins. Again thank you for you great video.
Well done for finding that extension wire with the plug. What function does it serve? Is it a replacement cable for the official range extender? I did eventually find a source of these plugs too - but no, no built- in diode on them or the charger. 5 wires isn’t ringing a bell either, but a year has passed. I’ll have to check the vid now as I’m intrigued!
@@yakoridesagain The original cable intended function is for updating the software on the X35. I just cut the unneeded end for my purpose and then I started mapping the pins layout to the wires. Odly enough, the red wire wasn't mapping to any pins until I switched the DVM polarity leads and bing ... 1.38 MOhms. So I switched my DVM for a diode test and long and behold, there is a diode in the connector itself. I assume that it is in there for protection.
Ah! The diode must be to protect whatever piece of kit is used for the software update from the internal battery then. Are you replacing the wires to make sure they can carry the required amps? One viewer who was an engineer carried out tests of his DIY extender under load. He confirmed that the load is shared equally between the batteries so the extender battery cables need to be able to handle around 3.5A….
@@yakoridesagain I am soldering right at the connector and hopefully, that will do it
Apologies for mentioning the obvious, but better safe than sorry. Please let me know how it all works out.
ok, hola again.... so I just took my wife's bike out to test it.... bare in mind, I do not have the hover board battery yet, so I have the saddle bag, with the diode in it, and I have cut the existing charging lead....so, took it out.. and all the lights work on the bike... but there is no assist.... I didn't have the saddle bag on... so I came back... put the saddle bag back on and connected the existing power lead.... and still all lights operate.. but no assist.... any ideas? or does it require this hoverboard battery to operate now?? i'm confused... as I thought if I removed the saddle bag and the old cable... then can ride it until the hoverboard battery arrives... but no....I can't have fried the internal battery.. as all lights come on the iWoc....watya thinks?
You can’t have damaged anything without even having the battery connected! You can switch the system on, and toggle through the power levels, but no power to the motor? If this is so, it is 90% likely the PAS sensor. First thing to do is check that the magnets in the cassette lock ring are clean. Next, clean the face of the sensor - it’s a little black plastic tab facing the cassette in the frame (rear chain stay). If you still have no power, check the gap between the sensor and the magnets - it’s supposed to be 3mm. If yours is more, loosen the sensor by undoing a 2mm grub screw under the sensor, push the sensor closer, and retighten. This should sort it. Takes 2 minutes.
worryingly.... I notice that the iWoc switch on bike gets very hot (now, I don't know if this was the case before... as I never paid attention..... but there is no assist working atall... I cannot see why it would not work on the internal battery alone... if you disconnect everything....have I fucked it???
The Iwoc does get very hot, don’t worry. Or rather, mine does too.
I know in the semi-arid climate you live in that it is less of a concern, but are you at all concerned about water penetration into electrics? I guess the plug into the bike is already waterproof if the extender plugs in. Super innovative though, and as I get older it may be something I'd look at if I was doing extra long rides with big high % elevation climbs. An incentive to lose another Kg Gareth as well so you can equalise the weight you added with the battery ;)
The saddle bag is supposedly waterproof and the hole for the cable is at the front underneath so out of the worst of it I hope. The diode itself is also sealed into a plastic box inside the bag…I’d probably try it if I lived in the UK - happily I live in a sunny country and don’t need to find out! (Sorry Neil!) I’ve lost 14kgs so far in 2022. I’m thinking of adding 13 more batteries for my moon shot later in the year !-)
@@yakoridesagain I live in Australia so we have lots of sunshine too. However, it’s trying its best at the moment to rain horrendously every day. We’ll have 6 years of no rain after this though to make up for it LOL. Sure, it sounds like you have it sorted.
Oops, thought you were UK based. Hope you’ve not been badly affected by the flooding? Sorry about forgetting you were in Aus, I did know that.
So I paid £550 for a range extender for my 3 year Orbea Gain then two weeks later the main battery died, so now I’m paying £690 for a new main battery, I should have just offered you a free two week holiday here in the UK and you could have sorted me out.
Oof. You’ve already paid for the new battery? I was thinking that when mine dies I would try to get a battery expert to re-cell mine with higher capacity cells…tech has moved on and it OUGHT to be possible to easily achieve double the capacity of the internal battery…which means you could sell the extender…
Yes battery has been paid for, just waiting for delivery to my LBS. You would have thought technology would have moved on wouldn’t you but then I’m also guessing they would also redesign the battery NOT to fit older models. I can’t believe how you can make a homemade battery that’s smaller and has twice the range of an extender but the professionals can’t 💁
@@Sean-vz7zw *smaller, cheaper, lighter AND more range ;-)
In their defence, I believe Ebikemotion originally planned for an extender like mine, but were put off due to the fact that the consumer, to be really safe, would need to check that the voltages of the two matched before connection. The reality would be that most wouldn’t, with the possibility of an instant equalisation of voltages between the 2 batteries that would absolutely fry the wiring, possibly kill both batteries and start a fire. Of course a wee bit more electronic wizardry and this would easily be avoided, but I think to cover themselves they made their extender a simple battery charger instead.
This is very interesting. Can you show links to the parts you use? Thanks !
Hi Pascal - everything came from either eBay or AliExpress - they are easy to find!
@@yakoridesagain Yes I ended up finding everything. The only issue remains the plug that connects to the bike. Did you end up finding one ? Or we still have to cut/modify the charger ?
@@pascalcastellazzi4136 I did find the manufacturer but they sell a minimum of 200 units. I said yes, as I thought I would make these to sell, but I’ve heard nothing for months, despite repeated messages. So…yes, you need to cut the one off the charger. It will be ok! Mine still works very well - the extender, the charger, everything! Good luck, just ask if you get stuck.
@@yakoridesagain Thanks ! Maybe the company which does the connector has an agreement with Malhe and they cannot sell/release them? I am also investigating the option of building a solar charger for the ebike. I have found a 12VDC to 42VDC converter (a car charger for ebike batteries) but it is only 1.5A? Do you think that would work ? (beside beeing slower...). Cheers!
Well the battery management system will only accept up to 2a, so 1.5a would work, but yes slow (8-9 hours) to charge both battery and extender if fully depleted. Let me know how that project goes, it sounds interesting.
Hi Yako, just watched this again as something was niggling at me. If your battery is plugged into the bike charge port I can’t see how it can act in parallel to the main battery. Surely by definition it can only act as a charger for the main battery?
This is a hotly debated question in certain forums/fora I’m in Neil. I am certainly beginning to think this, yet there are two sets of wires leading to the battery’s control system from the port, two thick and two thin. some believe the bike has internal wiring to allow parallelling the batteries, but this generally is influenced by the manufacturer making the claim when the system was launched that the extender battery would work in parallel. After the 2 year wait for the extender to be manufactured, it was launched as a smaller capacity battery charger. I could do tests to find this out for certain, but a much more detail orientated gentleman is doing this and I await his report.
If it turns out that all of the available extenders work in the same way I’ll probably redo this vid, making it much, much, shorter!
I’m not at all suggesting that what you’ve made doesn’t work.
Oh no, Neil, I wasn’t suggesting you were saying that! The extender I made works, no question, it’s just the HOW we are debating!
@@yakoridesagain hi yako, are you able to share the results of the much more detail orientated gentlemans report?, also does it matter what side the ideal diode is as most on ebay seem to be 50A
hi mate, is battery compatible with x20?
I’m sorry Jay, I’ve no idea. I was happy to try this with my 2nd hand Gain, but if you’ve dropped a big wad of cash on an X20 powered bike, you’d have to be brave to try this!
I suspect that the controller or BMS on the new bikes wouldn’t ‘recognise’ a non-standard extender and wouldn’t work. The X35 was originally designed to work with a battery like my set-up; the X20 wasn’t…
Hi yoko, ive seen you mention that you know someone who can supply the plugs rather than cutting the one off the charger, do you have any contact details
Uf, yes, give me a sec to find it. They are on EBay…hold on
the seller is Powatechnic09. You need to contact him to ask to buy the Ebikemotion plug and cable specifically- they don’t list it. The cost is £18. I’m not affiliated, I just asked them if they were happy to supply it and they said yes. Too late for me!
Also, looking at the way these things are connected, I don’t think it’s possible to truly have a secondary battery in parallel. I think you said this in relation to reducing charging cycles. The secondary battery always seems to drip feed the main battery.
Hi Andy. I’m certainly not a techie so everything I’ve done I’ve either read about, and now increasingly, am experiencing. Any idea how to test the idea that my second battery is still acting like a charger? One guy has used his secondary battery at a significantly higher voltage than the internal one and reported an over voltage error message on the Mahle app and heat at the port and connectors this sounds like the batteries are trying to equalise voltages. You would hope this wouldn’t happen if the Orbea’s BMS knows what’s going on? If I ride up a hill in full power, and disconnect the batteries to test voltages at the top, the internal battery ought to be considerably lower in voltage, having been consuming say 8amps whilst receiving say 2a, netting 6a of loss for the climb, rather than the -2a for the hoverboard battery, right? So if they are the same…I will try to check today, tomorrow at the latest. Another user has stated that the BMS detects incoming voltage and swaps between charger and parallel modes. What do you think? However it works though, it does work to extend my range. Sorry for the lengthy reply, I’m intrigued by this stuff!
@@yakoridesagain Hi Yako, I'm very glad you are carrying out these practical tests on these systems, as i think we can work out the best way to do things through a combination of trial and error and tech knowledge. I have recently bought a Mahle motor system bike, so i want to try and make an alternative power source for it. From what I have researched so far the connection on the bottom bracket of the bike (to the internal BMS) will only feed the charging circuit for the main battery. I can only imagine this is a safety feature so that the BMS controls all aspects of the incoming power. The difference between a fully charged battery and a partially depleted battery will only be in the order of a few volts (on a 40v config). There will be no physical connection directly to the internal battery connections from the bottom bracket socket, so it can only ever be a charging influence. To charge a battery a slightly higher voltage, than the internal battery is required - to create a current flow. If the voltage is too high I would imagine the BMS would report this as a fault and not allow a connection (because this would potentially allow too much charging current to flow). As current is drawn from the main battery the potential voltage across it will drop as a result of a depleting capacity, this will cause an increasing voltage difference between the fresh battery and internal battery, allowing more current to flow. I can't imagine there would be any way of paralleling a battery unless you physically solder wires to the internal battery connections - which would be a really bad thing to do. One of my initial thoughts was to use 2 lithium power tool batteries in series (18v x 2 = 36v). I have some Dewalt tools so I may give this a try. These could be plugged in to the bottom bracket socket. Of course these opinions above, are my own, I haven't carried out any tests to verify what will work, and what won't.
Apologies for not running the test yet; I’d prefer to do a specific test rather than during a normal ride (never have enough storage space and a voltmeter isn’t tiny). I understand that the charging socket on the bike SHOULDN’T be connected to the internal battery connectors, but originally, and after the release of the X35 system, Ebikemotion stated that the proposed extender battery would be a 250wh unit that would run in parallel. I’ve hoped/assumed therefore that they included some wizardry that can allow this to work - perhaps a means to differentiate between a charging voltage of 42v and that from a secondary battery? I’ve tried to blinker myself to the fact that a fully charged 36v battery would be pretty darn close to that, maybe 41.6v….but if the secondary battery is simply acting as a charger, the electronics required to continually balance the batteries as they are depleted would be tricky, wouldn’t it? There would always have to a a voltage gradient from the second to the internal battery to allow charging to take place? Wouldn’t the internal BMS be expecting 2a at 42v only?
@@yakoridesagain ...... no apology needed yako, just very glad you are looking at this whole subject. And, i apologise in advance for a very wordy response. Did you get anywhere with your further experiments? It’s really hard to get definitive information. I haven't seen any info about the piggy back battery acting in parallel though - maybe i've missed this. You know I wonder if this could just be a marketing turn-of-phrase, rather than technically correct information? I mean, the rider could perceive the piggy-back battery was in parallel - apart from the slow charge rate, which wouldn't be an issue if the second battery is connected before the main battery depletes too much.
If the charing of the piggy back battery is passive, and just relying on the voltage difference between the main and secondary battery, then the charge will just occur without control - ohms law. The trickle current will reduce as the voltages equalise? They may never equalise if the main battery is being depleted during riding though.
A practical test, maybe to half-charge the main battery and half-charge the range extender battery. Then just leave the bike switched on but not actually move the bike anywhere. Would then be interesting to see if the main battery was charged further, or whether both batteries sit there at a balanced voltage and remain both half charged. If they both remain at their status quo, then I think it may be a passive charging circuit relying on a higher voltage of the charged battery (or plugin charger), to derive the charge current for the internal battery.
To answer your question about charge current being 2a. I don’t think constant current charge is being used here. My understanding from what we’ve discussed is that the charge current will be relative to voltage difference as above mentioned. This is purely an analogue loop, so no real control needed. I can’t say any of this is categorically correct, because i don’t have knowledge of the components used (yet).
@@yakoridesagain perhaps asking Mahle directly? The thing that gets me is why they abandoned the parallel battery idea and went with a charging solution instead? They must have run into some problems as the idea of having two parallel batteries as an extender makes much greater sense for battery longevity.
I'm guessing u may be away on holidays.......... I cannot get the assist to work atall...... maybe I have fucked the main battery up!! Maybe the Ribble's have a different internal battery?? god knows.. but getting worried now...... it's weird, as all he lights come on...and even if I plug it all into the charger through the diode and ssaddle bag.... the lights come on to charge it....but no assist.... I did everything incl. getting the exact same diode...nightmare....
It’s the same system. I've written to you explaining what I think the problem is.
@@yakoridesagain you do u know you are a STAR!! haha... you just told me something that I totally overlooked!! I could not fathom it out!!! haha... so easy!! will report back in a min!!! STAR YOU ARE!!
PS - at midnight last night... I had that bike in pieces... ready to remove the battery... but thankfully went to bed to sleep it off!! haha.,..will tell u more soon.... just gonna do what you reminded me!!
Do you sell these?
I’m afraid not Morpheus, but if you buy the parts, any home appliance or computer repair shop could do the few bits of soldering in seconds. It would still be a quarter of the price. Mine has transformed my riding (take a look at my other videos).