EBike Battery Pack || DIY or Buy || Electric Bike Conversion (Part 2)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 кві 2018
- Best PCB prototyping house ($2 for 10 boards): jlcpcb.com
Previous video: • How circuit breakers c...
Electric Bike Conversion (Part 1): • Make your own Sensored...
Battery Type Comparison: • Battery Type Compariso...
Make your own Li-Ion Battery Pack: • Make your own Li-Ion B...
Battery Spot Welder (CD Welder): • Battery Spot Welder (C...
Facebook: / greatscottlab
Twitter: / greatscottlab
More project information (pictures, parts list,.....) on Instructables: www.instructables.com/id/DIY-...
The spot welder that I used in the video: www.keenlab.de/index.php/port...
www.keenlab.de/index.php/prod...
Parts list (incomplete, see Instructables for more, affiliate links):
Aliexpress:
26x INR18650-25R: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dY2...
13x Spacer: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dVZ...
7mm x 0.3mm nickel ribbon: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_d6k...
13s 20A BMS: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_BfZ...
10 AWG Wire: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dYe...
Ebay:
26x INR18650-25R: rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-532...
13x Spacer: rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-532...
7mm x 0.3mm nickel ribbon: rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-532...
13s 20A BMS: rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-532...
10 AWG Wire: rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-532...
In this episode of DIY or Buy I will show you how to create a proper EBike battery pack. The main components for the build are Li-Ion cells, nickel strips and a BMS. At the end of the project I will then conclude whether DIYing your own battery pack is cheaper than buying a premade one.
Thanks to JLCPCB for sponsoring this video
Visit jlcpcb.com to get professional PCBs for low prices
Music:
In the Hall of the Mountain King, Kevin MacLeod
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com) - Наука та технологія
That feeling you get when you made something, and it works is "priceless".
i simply aded a switch cables battery clamps and a fuse with a converter .. i even learned that the one side of the converter has different stats when work.. melted some fuses . ruined some solders ... was epic ..
.. when i was 8 . 26years ago my grandpa used to let me play with pcbs and even solder ,, burns and fumes didnt stop me!!!! hope my motivation returns !
I think it's actually priceless, because the feeling is completely separate from the cost. Which is not what quotations adds to the sentence... for anyone that needs to hear that.
@@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489 You are correct, I have no Idea why I added quotations. 😅
THE best “how to set up” battery pack video out there! I spent years clarifying and watching other ppl do it! You won’t BELIEVE how many ppl don’t tell you the orientations the batteries or the voltage. They just say “oh spot weld or soldier”
Thank you GreatScott
At least with a DIY pack build you know that you have good quality cells. Not some cheap un-named brand with no capacity.
Can make sure you buy a pack that names the cells it uses?
and made out of bad Chineseium materials
at that point why don't you just use a gas engine to drive the wheel? lol
I've got a lead-acid battery.
Genset trailers are a thing. I was thinking about getting a little hobby gasser and an alternator, myself.
I really admires that passionate way to explain and recreate experiments like this one.
Keep going in that way mate!
I began refurbishing ebike batteries a while ago and figured it can be quite a profitable business. That welder you got, appears quite nice and works a lot better than many readymade ones that are available for cheap.
Your camera work is stellar. I wish more people on YT were this good.
are you in love?
Very nice!
Finally a FIY or BUY video that really makes sense - most of the other ones only show what was the best alternative for you (the same doesn't apply to everyone - it depends on your knowledge and budget).
I like how you make the ads interesting. I have no idea about PCB design but I like hearing random little facts. Clever.
The other benefit of building over buying is that you know you're getting genuine cells. As long as you buy from a reputable place anyway.
Yea however you have to calculate that he also has to protect those cells in enclosure, to protect it from rain, rust, from shorting and whatnot.. :/
@@samihyppia8472 paa÷
!
9999g ki logzgy5 hg
I will never buy a cheaper pre made e bike battery they are all horrible I don’t care what anyone says. Ride a eBay bought bike battery daily from 100-20% charge and it will be completely shot in months! After that mistake I bought all the tools and started making my own, 13s 8.8 ah battery cost $350 including the tools spot welder soldering gun etc but I’m using very good high drain cells. Most store bought batteries can’t handle a lot of current either, my pack can handle 90 amps continuous discharge and 20 amp charge rate. Not to mention you can use 21700 cells and get better watt hour to size/cost ratio. In the long run it’s beneficial because you have the tools and ability to make any battery whenever you need to fit any device. Have a lot of lifepo4 ups upgrades in the future.
I guess I'll just buy.. It gets complicated after 00:01
Agreed lmao. Started off simple enough.
😂
@@lobsterbaby5302 🤣
nooo lol. watch some more vids. quite easy, really
There's better videos that make it easier to understand. But currently a diy battery is almost just as expensive to make as it is to buy
Awesome video. I've been reading up on making an ebike over the last few weeks and this video is just what I needed. Thanks!
Man this video was awesome ,the best in months, you explained everything flawlessly.. Thanks for the video !!
I really appreciate your effort in these videos.
Just one thing and this’ll be complete!, I’d really like to see a HOMEMADE MOTOR!
Thanks!
It is on my to do list
@greatscott please post a link to the spot welder you got too, i get inspired by your videos and i am the the progress of making my own electric bike kit!
Edit: i meant the one they sent you, not the diy one.
He has posted it in the description:
" The spot welder that I used in the video: www.keenlab.de/index.php/port... www.keenlab.de/index.php/prod... "
The link is: www.keenlab.de/index.php/portfolio-item/kweld/
Satwik Satpathy When i got here it was NOT there, thank you.
ua-cam.com/video/NFvMC3l3fGY/v-deo.html
this is great, i never understood how to use a BMS until i saw this, i'm using the same one as you
He explained it so well and in only a few words.
Great communicator.
Excellent tutorial! Best on I have seen in a long time. Love the math and the data.
Thank you Scott for your detailed and clear tutorial !
Great scott, Hi
Thank you so much, with the help of your videos i can deeply understand power electronics
In my opinion ,
Without skilled hands education is useless
Without kind heart education is dangerous
Thanking almighty that you have both
After watching your videos i feel that my skills are improving.
Thank you again :) :)
This is by far the best concise video on DIY battery packs. Well done.
Is it on purpose @7:17, it's not complete yet cuz in regards to the right diagram which is in the sketch he showed @4:00 is supposed to be 3 of that 26 battery package he just created and so if I'll clarify you need 78 batteries in order to get a "48v 20ah 1000 watt battery pack"😉
@@johnson12379where did he say he wants 20Ah? He just need 20A, 5Ah.
I really needed this video. Making a lipo battery pack for a project but was confused about the BMS.
I appreciate your ohm law approach to explain it. Very detailed, and well explained. Thank you.
I think the pro with making your own pack would be making it a larger capacity to the normal ones you buy off shelf. This pack is pretty small as it is. Good start though. Also picking up second hand cells is a good way of cutting costs, although adds risk of unreliability.
I steal the batterys from e scooters, i am rebuilding three batteries into one for my ebike. Yes this is stupid, yes it will work.
@@kevinhorstmann1435 No problem using used cells as long as you check them properly :) I bought a 8 channel tester/charger that tells me exact capacity of each cell
I think the most important is the connection to the rest of the controllers of the bike. Most of the time, the BMS of the battery needs to talk to the controller unit of the bike. Then p.ex. the display of the bike can show the state of charge (SOC).
This was the video I am looking for my eboard thanks a lot finally I watched your old one a couple times but this one is the best
so clear and succinct. you really demystified making battery packs!
Very nice as always. Do you have plans for an aluminum case for the battery pack?
Not an aluminum case, but something else. Will be in the next part.
I imagine he'll 3d print something.
GreatScott! May be a 3D printed battery case.
I would suggest a flame retardant filament if you 3d print something though, just in case. some of the other filaments are flamable.
Electronoobs i always watch you videos
How would you compare this kind of pack to one based on RC lithium-polymer battery packs? I'm going to be working on an electric scooter project soon, and I was aiming for li-po batteries primarily because of their cost and relative ease of use.
lithium-polymer will be almost the same as far as the math goes compared to lithium ion. If you used packs you would probably want to use 3x 11.1v packs and 1x 14.8v pack in series to get to 13s.
Lipo isn't widely spread despite it's large current advantage in evs cause it has less charging cycles of longevity and is more volatile. Both li-ion and lifepo4 can supply enough current at any reasonable capacity, and lifepo4 has much larger range of operating temperatures.
Do not use lipo is a bomb waiting to set your house on fire. save a few bucks loose your house gg. Use lifepo4 only.
LFP is the safest chemistry but needs a larger volume. Lithium polymer has the best energy capacity so is fine for small gadgets. It is too sensitive for heavy duty power especially with vibration in a bike or scooter. Not safe. Don’t go there.
@@ahah1785 you're fake news!
As always an amazing video. I really enjoy watching your videos. You're so creative.
Thank u for writing down all required equations. This is really useful!! Thanks
Awesome video, very, very instructive! Thanks a lot!
No problem ;-)
I make a 24v 15ah battery pack.The best 18650
(....) mah and how many batteries are needed? Please say if any kind of BMS will take place
Thanks for taking the mystery out of battery packs , Very precise engineering methods .
For the similar price, but knowing that quality cells have been used, I think build should be the winner of this one. Great video again.
I like the video. Just in case you didn't know, I thought I would make you aware of some separate options for cheaper batteries.
A popular option in the hobbyist community is to buy lots new laptop batteries and disassemble them for cells. The cheapest option I'm aware of is going for used cells from dead laptop batteries.
Used cells are a bit tricky as they must undergoe some tests to verify their capacity and condition. Afterwards you organize them Into a pack with similar cell capacitys.
This is the option I went with for my personal battery, I ended up with a 14s 12p battery, it runs about 27ah. It cost me less than 100$, but a fair bit of time.
I'm excited to see how your project turns out!
add a 3d printed enclosure for the kweld
I always love the camera work in this show.
By far the best diy battery pack video on UA-cam
You will find 1kw enjoyable for a brief moment. Then you want more. You will probably build an 5-10kw bike and enjoy it for a moment too. Then you will move into the heavier stuff and beat all the 450cc on the street while realising that you have spent 100x more money on the EV wave than the original budget. But in the end of the day it will all be worth it!
true AF!
We need solid state batteries Tesla gonna start using if they not already
We get the shit overstock or crap batches
they pay bulk prices and get all good stuff shit bags 😂😂
lol. scale that down to 350watt entry level motors and believe me, more than 48v 1500W is scary fast on a bike
Just use a gas bike...
@@mtuz8356 thats not really flying tho...
You can't trust the cells you get on ebay but, labour cost is a major disadvantage (unless you class it as a hobby then its worthwhile)
One point on the BMS, what's the balancing current? it's probably not very high.. so I'm wondering if there was a more severe voltage difference in the cells would the little passive balancing circuit cope with the charging current?
Skruffles Balancing current for most BMS is typically under 50mA
Yeah that's what I thought, even at 100mA I'd be a bit wary of some cells overcharging when series charging the pack.. I suppose some manual checks every now and then would suffice
Germany batteries
Great stuff! That spot welder is tempting.
Gotta tell you that today i made an 80$ order + some LCSC smd things, thank you for the continuous quality reviews! gotta check it out for myself!
You want to match battery pairs by their internal resistance, not their out-of-the-box charge voltage.
TheVexCortex i didn’t know this, I also have never tried to measure a batteries resistance.
Do you just measure it like a normal resistor?
You need a special meter to measure it, if you hook it up to a multimeter, you will probably kill your multimeter. Mine is built in to my charger: www.amazon.com/Version-Digital-Battery-Discharger-Temperature/dp/B00ZGZZ40K/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1526094888&sr=8-32&keywords=lithium+charger
www.walmart.com/ip/Tenergy-5-in-1-Intelligent-Cell-Meter-Capacity-Checker-Battery-Balancer-Battery-Discharger-Internal-Resistance-Tester-ESC-Servo-PPM-Tester/179864013?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=2240&adid=22222222227056692896&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=233956535514&wl4=pla-384625138979&wl5=9022129&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113146105&wl11=online&wl12=179864013&wl13=&veh=sem should do the job though.
Measure voltage drop in a resistor and do the math.
To be fair, if you used the same cells that those battery packs have, it would probably turn out much cheaper. You can't know what cells those have, could be some cheap Chinese ones.
Which means that the pre-made battery pack would be much more expensive in the long run.
Buy cheap cells from trustworthy sellers on ebay - $1 pr cell at its cheapest
Have you actually done measurements on what is their real mAh? Do you know how long/how many cycles it will last? No. With a good brand one you can pretty much know it won't give out after 10 cycles. Chinese stuff has way less quality control and even same batch batteries can have varying capacity or life.
Newjorciks tru but just like the chinese knife market, it has gone into a new world... Much better than before.. Tbh its safe to buy almost any 18650's.. just not the 9800mAh cells lll
All of it is from China. There is quality Chinese made products. And cheaply made products. simple as that I dislike when people say "cheap eBay crap" or "cheap Chinese stuff" What did you expect for little $
Always liked your work! Thanks for sharing!
As usual, well done. Next video we need to see you riding this bike!
6:55 I guess those conections were serious
Be careful with those chiese lab bench power supply's, sometimes the voltages becomes wrong after use--Then your circuit suddenly fries and you don't know why. When you check power supply voltage, the display says 4.2v and its actually 6v. It's pretty cool.
Dear Scott great basic introduction ,its include every thing for the basic to explore,thanks
Thx for al the videos ! I followed this build and now I can cruise on my fast bike in the Netherland!
I'd of doubled that pack it wouldn't last long on a 500w hub
DIY BMS or BUY? 😁
I have it on my to do list but that will take a while.
This please! I actually really want to make my own BMS so I can do regenerative breaking and have different voltage outputs for different things. (lights, traction motor controller, etc.)
@@WarrenGarabrandt me too
@@greatscottlab Can you show how to do BMS for lead acid batteries? I know most people just slightly overcharge the highest cells so that lower cells can get a charge, but that damages sealed batteries like gel cells.
buy
amazing video. i was just drawing up plans to do this myself and only afterwards did i find this incredible video. in my case i did a comparison of the diy battery bank to the retail value for my ebike and it saves me nearly $750USD. jeez louisee
It´s the better video learning to build Li Battery. Congratulation, GratScott!!!
Would getting 21700 batteries be more beneficial?
Tigoo yes
DIY is a clear winner if you allready have the 18650 cells
Do you have 30 (or 60 in bigger packs) batteries just lying around? I have some from old laptop batteries, but I can't use them together of course..
Yes you can, most are just a pack of 4 to 8 18650, I take "dead" (usually the managing circuit fails or a cell over discharges) laptop batteries and use them for diy power banks or other proyects.
Since some of the cell may have different parameters after being in "dead" battery, you should check their capacity and ESR first. You can of course use them to create something like a powerbank, but If you would use other types from more batteries, it would be very bad. Also you would need 30, or 60 the same cells with same parameters to create something like this battery. You can not just solder any cell to each other.
Adam Grufík if they are diffrent parameters then you use bms or try to manage get same capacity bunch for one group of cells
Of course, but when you can haul them almost by the literal ton out of tech repair shops you are bound to pile a nice amount of batteries with the same parameters. At least 7 out of 10 will be ready to use, 1 will need some restoring and the other 2 will be dead
That spot welding was so satisfying..!
Thumbs up man! what a great video! Well done! Impressed!
10:05 holy shit look at that spark!🤷🏻♂️🤣😁😎
PCB for only $2 is deceiving. shipping is minimum $10
I appreciate your honest review and the way of explaining things..
That's some great content and production value. That kit looks great.
What is the advantage of connecting the battery holders in series as opposed to parallel? How does this affect current and voltage?
thats simple. If you connect them in parallel you'll be able to draw a higher current (rated current of the cell)x(number of cells) and the voltage will be the same as a single cell (so 3.0-4.2 volts), and if you connect them in series you'll get a higher voltage (voltage of one cell)x(number of cells).
Since his device only works at over 40 volts you'll have to connect at least 10 in series to get a suitable voltage.
If you wanted to build a spotwelder with them(like the K-weld he showed) for example, you'd connect them in parallel instead.
You can also combine that like he did. so that means you have groups of 2 cells in parallel, which gives you double the maximum current, and then put those groups in series, which gives you a higher voltage.
Thats the electronics basics. Like, first lesson basics.
I did not know that the configuration of the battery spacers was so important!
The spacers? i thought you were talking about the nickel strips lol.
I guess the spacers are connected in both parallel and series.
What is the difference? How do those spacers affect voltage and current?
Are you sure....
5:37 Did he just call the ribbon the N-word? :O
5:40
NO! He said, "Nickel ribbon"
Great video, as always! Greetings from Brazil
Awesome video, you are very clear and full of information. Congrats and Thanks!
I would disagree on the DIY=BUY statement here. When you buy components - you have control of what \how are you assembly your battery. When you buy ready product from 3rd party you can end up with bad quality battery(elements/bms etc) & waste of time & money.
Boah Alter! This is BS
You bought a 3d printer when I got my first 3d printer, I thought it's all a coincidence.
Then I start panning an e-bike.
I start planning my battery pack and sketching up the pack on CAD.
And then you stat making it too!
Stop it! Hahaha
All jokes aside, love the video and the coincidence.
Might as well show you what I did to get around the task.
I build a sport welder from a scrap PSU transformer haha
And 3d printer. My battery pack
this could not have come at a more perfect time. The same concepts here for a batter pack could be taken to more than just an e bike and i have been looking for a good explanation that really broke the process down for using li-ion cells.
Thank you, man . I learned loads.
5:40 "The n***a ribbon"
He's fucked up the pronounciation so many times, it's hilarious.
German / Swedish word
his pronunciation is therefore accurate
nickel (n.)
"whitish metal element, 1755, the name was coined in 1754 by Swedish mineralogist Axel von Cronstedt (1722-1765) from shortening of Swedish kopparnickel "copper-colored ore" (from which it was first obtained), a half-translation of German Kupfernickel, literally "copper demon," from Kupfer (see copper) + Nickel "demon, goblin, rascal" (a pet form of masc. proper name Nikolaus (compare English Old Nick "the devil;" see Nicholas). According to OED, the ore was so called by miners because it looked like copper but yielded none."
cANcELleD
you should have a look at the high capacity rc batteries on hobbyking, you get alot more bang for your buck there, ebike specific batteries are ridiculously expensive
Depends what you're going for. Hobbyking Multistar cells weigh 40% more for the same capacity compared to 35E's, and many new 18650's do cost less.
Well, currently on Hobbyking: 10s 10A lipo pack (20C discharge, 2C charge) - 40 EUr, incl. shippment to Europe. I think it is a quite good deal.
Tibor Kiss Hey, could you put a link to that battery, I can't find :(
any cell has a tendency to puff when used incorrectly... Ive had some of my multistar cells for YEARS, never had one puff yet. i have the crazy big 16ah 6s and 4s packs and multiple smaller quad and plane batteries, your using them wrong if they are puffing mate... dont spread rumours...
Or you know bike/car batteries could be used too, with some circuitry together
Now this is a neat job! Congratulations.
great video as usual. Keep up the good work!
5:41
the *what*
You don't need 20A cells anymore if you are only doing 2p...
Whats the point of calculating amperage for 1p then buying 2p?
30q would of been perfect, more capacity and possibly cheaper.
the battery pack he made is only 240Wh, it's really small... he could have used batteries with 5A max current draw, but make 13S6P pack for at least 500Wh capacity (with 2000mAh batteries...). It would have been cheaper and of course it would last much longer
Running batteries at less than their maximum C rating is more efficient. The more current you push through them, the more (I^2)R losses you incur, therefore there is more wasted capacity, and more heat reducing the longevity of the cells. It's never bad to have a good safety margin, unless you are trying to "get away with" as few pennies spent as possible.
Kevin Day Sure, but in the end 13S6P pack with 2000mAh 5A cells will do better than 13S2P 2500mAh 20A in my opinion. And it can be cheaper as well.
Nacho Mendía Heavier than the four Lead Acid batteries you would typically use with a bike? Yeah I definitely not... Even if you went for small 5Ah batteries they would weigh about 4lb each so 16lb total and even heavier at a more useful capacity like 7-9Ah, whereas an 18650 will weigh about 50g per cell, so that would be 8.6lb for a 13s6p pack which is considerably lighter.
Wojtek Kamiński Yeah, I meant to mention in my comment, I'm not saying that his solution was the best one, just that there is at least SOME reason to do the calculations for 1P and use 2P.
Such a video creator man...perfect awesome ...your work is amazing man...
Nice video. I just replaced a bad cell in my Prius battery, and as far as I can tell, it works in a very similar manner.
Why you stopped posting links to aliexpress?
Was not worth it
GreatScott! Wait why, because aliexpress products are unreliable?
no, likely because spending the time to hunt the product down on multiple websites is time consuming
real mvp
iwantitpaintedblack looks like someone else can do it for you ^. ^
Sir, why don't you make a video on " how to design schematics and custom PCB using easyEDA ".
I know you've already made a video on easyEDA but it doesn't help at all in working on it.
I'm really not able to understand which tool is why and which tool is where and tool I need ... What its name..??
Please it will be really helpful.
Thank you..
Respect🙏 and appreciation👏 from India🇮🇳🇮🇳.
I will make such a video when the time is right.
GreatScott! Will be waiting eagerly..😊
i am also in the process of making e bike... except for the difference that i dont have money and have to use alternator as motor and some gel or lead batteries, but still can as always take some new knowledge from your videos . Keep up the good work!
Beautifully clear video. Very informative and well planned & presented.
5:40 so sounds wrong...
ni**a ribbon
Glad someone else heard it too lmao
Isn't LFP better
Safer but lower energy density
Excellent! I much appreciate that you take time for the scheme work. Sub.
Great video! Make it easy for beginners to understand.thanks for sharing!
But with only 5Ah and drawing 10Amps you will only have 30 minutes of charge...
True. But that is why I will do testing in part 3.
Samuel Sparks also, the way to use these is not continuously at full power. You use it as a pedal assist. The current draw is much less and you get hours of use, while still dramatically reducing the difficulty of pedaling.
Can it charge when coasting? Like some Hybrid cars do?
30 minutes of full power, usually you don't drive around like that.
@Curl Beers
That depends mainly on the speed controller, some carry regenerative braking, though regenerative coasting isn't something they normally do.
so diy if you feel like it?
Yes
Love the name. I immediately thought of back to the future
Thank you for a very informative video Scott.
I'm early, let me tell you a joke.
An Indian who obsessed and keep asking for USB soldering iron.
?
He's already posted the thing yet again. 😜
Yeah agree lol
Wut. Lol
What goes your bappus ?
I have bought 200 li-lon battery for 5 dollars XD in a garage sell
Hamza Ezio Argh... for $20 Can I have 35 cells ? x)
Time to start going to garage sales.
u work so hard for the video, u r really great!!!
I learned a lot from your video. Thank you!
5:32 "nigga ribbon" :P
even "worse" at 5:40 lol
Lmao had me dying
I was sure I wasn't the only one who heard it 😂😂
Sounded like nickel to me, I guess you just heard what you wanted to hear.
LOL!
why didn't u show the bike on the road
Part 3?
Because it’s just a battery pack and wheel right now. It obviously isn’t put into a full bike yet
GreatScott!
yes
Love you Great Scott !! Yummy electronics 😋 ... Interesting !!
DIY is always the winner, learning and gaining experience, anyone can buy
my congratulations for who is back your channel all is a great job. thank you my big LIKE FOR YOU
the "aluminium circle" is called a rim, great video👍
That welder gives lovely welds might have to look at upgrading my welder!
Big benefit to DIY is knowing your pack is solid. Buying cheap modules can have poor results. Definitely a good idea to crack open what you bought if you can to see how good of a job they did inside.