Tuning earphones with... cables? | "DSP" Explained
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- ds nuts
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~~~
PATREON: / crinacle
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00:00 Intro
01:20 Context
02:06 What does "Digital" mean?
02:52 Changing sound "digitally" versus "analog"
04:43 Why use DSP?
06:38 Is DSP a crutch?
10:03 TL;DW
~~~
CAM: Sony a7S III + FE 85mm f/1.8
MIC: RØDE Wireless PRO - Наука та технологія
For those curious about how some of these DSP IEMs sound, we got some demos at The Hangout! goo.gl/maps/qRhMgtUBZ2FWu6gX9
Don't need DSP, I alr got my ultimate end game ibasso dc elite for just 480SGD so I skip this shit....😂😂😂😂
God I wish I was not European. This sound like such a nice place to be 😭
@@yanec2501 , yup! But boring!
@@yanec2501got psyopd award
Active noise cancelling also counts as DSP! That's maybe less relevant to this space, but my lil EE heart had to say something.
As an electrical engineering student, this is true, but in this case is using the signal processing to cancel out the noise rather than to change the tuning
@@impulse1107 ye for sure! I'm just being pedantic lmao, in this context people are usually talking about fixed tap filters
which is still processing, even if it's not to benefit the noise actively@@impulse1107
Yeah, like isn't anything coming out of any device digitally processed? if from the save file to the conversion to the signal to then be converted to mechanical driver movement.@@anachronismic
@@Daniel-dj7fh Audio coming out of a digital file (CD, phone streaming, sonos) does start out digital and will have elements of DSP in the chain, yeah. (Cassette, vinyl, etc don't need DSP in the chain, there's discourse on that that I don't care about lmao). This is why all the people who are super into audio put some focus on DACs (digital anolog converter). In making those chips there's design decisions that affect the sound. Largely in this space though I think people talking about DSP are talking about tuning the audio signal so that it has certain sound properties. That audio signal tuning can be done post-conversion to analog as well, which is where the Discourse comes from.
DSP can do magic (Accoustic Room Correction is unreal) but it's best used in conjuction with regular tuning. You can't out-DSP physics.
What kind of equipment can do this? Since it's room correction I assume we're talking about speakers. Are there seperate DAC's that do this now a days?
@@dentanau some AV systems I've gotten recently have the room correction stuff built in. You plug a mic in and position it, the system runs what I think is a sine sweep, and then based on what it gets at the mic it can apply DSP to help correct for some of the deficiencies of the room. I think it's a thing you can do with special software separate from the AV systems. I think Darko Audio's done some discussion on it.
magic to inexperienced ears 😉
@@dentanauThere’s a product called Mini-DSP, paired with a microphone it does room corrections for speakers. However, you can’t use the corrected EQ profile by itself, you have to use it with its own DAC, and that DAC is horrific.
@@dentanauIf you want to do room correction without any proprietary bullshit:
Buy any reference microphone, they're about $80.
You can use Room EQ Wizard to record the measurements and generate the EQ / DSP filters. Then you can export these filters in a variety of different formats to use for different hardware/software.
You can use a software like Equalizer APO to use these filters on your PC,
Thank God DSP is Digital Signal Processing, and not DarkSyidePhill.
I think one important part of this is that "cable" DSP requires a DAC in the unit post-EQ. The audio quality will thus depend on the quality of that DAC-in-the-cable, which may or may not be as good as what's in the device or outboard gear.
"Who is DSP?" No, don't do it!
KZ x DSP collab incoming in 3, 2....
Android's default DSP(EQ): WHY AM I TOXIC?!??!
Deon Sanders Primetime. Currently goes by CP or Coach Prime.
LightSydeBill
I prefer a penne
*dramatic snort*
You know Crinacle, I've been thinking along these lines recently. I would love a video on how one tunes IEMs - that is, when you're making an IEM, not using DSP.
TY for coming to my ted talk.
Didnt he do one on his old channel at some point with a tuning box? I guess if the old channel is dead you can't watch it. I hope he re uploads or does a new one. But I think the concept was akin to having an adjustable crossover in a box wired to each driver. And then you can test with your ears and measure frequency response with some microphones.
ua-cam.com/video/PsijHAVLbuY/v-deo.html
From what I know, theres the stuff he pointed out in the video like tubing, vents, shell geometry, and then theres the old tuning box with crossover points and driver amplitude. And then in the dioko video and commonly used as a mod theres filters and filter swapping, nozzle material, nozzle length, and driver placement, rotation and seating/stability discussed by HBB on the Olina SE video.
“Who is DSP”
I don’t think you wanna know
Tell me, I wanna know
@@percider A shite Gamer that blames everyone else but himself.
The sound profile she doesn't tell you about
Welcome back!
Crin IEMs first impressions when? Haven't seen you throw IEM boxes in a while now
I don't usually comment, but my favorite of your videos is the "F off" at the end. Makes me smile every time. Also love your videos.
Finally a new video after some years of waiting
how is DSP? that's the question sadly no one asks😢
I love the desciption 😂 10/10 genius pun 👏🏻
The outro tag hit especially hard this time lmfao
Another common use for DSP's is in cars. They work for time alignment, phase correcting and, in OEM applications, Limiting both power and bass to the cheap OEM speakers.
Aftermarket DSP's can change the sound of your car completely. With some giving you the ability from going from a 4 speaker basic set-up to a complex set-ups with multiple component speaks and sub-woofers.
Maybe we could see DSP's help with multi driver IEM in the future, but that will requiere thicker cables.
I get why DSP, but I don't get why companies using DSP don't give a handful of potential tunings for people to play with. What I really want is a higher end headphone (more than IEM) that is technically proficient (low distortion, has good headroom for EQ, etc) that then has a series of tunings and even room for custom tunings.
I think it's because it requires a good understanding of frequency response and targets.
They can use the idiots way out and give the users some options at first. Like bass boost or clarity. Full blown parametric eq would freak out the normies
So in other words, you want a neutral mixing headphone and some basic presets for the various common tuning curves? I mean, you can already do that by way of most headphones marketed as 'studio' headphones or 'monitoring' headphones + a DAC and extant EQ. If the headphones are popular, there WILL be instructions out there as a step-by-step guide for EQing it to the common curves. It doesn't really make financial sense to be creating and maintaining a suite in-software for something very few users are going to really be messing with, especially when there are already softwares out there to do it for those who want to.
Mind you, I'm still rocking DT770s and have them EQed for harman, Even having to use the software that my DAC came with (soundblaster) to EQ it via inputting values in a text file, it still took me less than 2 hours after starting to look for info to do it.
@@jtnachos16 yeah bud but tinkering with the settings everytime you plug a new headphone is a pain in the ass.
I'd pay for it if there was a version of dawn pro with an on board eq profile memory. I'd flash my equalizer apo profiles to each one and wouldn't have to think about it.
@@mehmetgurdal Again, you are pointing to a rather niche use. The vast, VAST majority of users aren't switching headphones on a frequent basis, and those that ARE switching headphones on a frequent basis arent the type to want to EQ them all to fit into the same profiles in the first place. It's a solution in search of a problem, realistically speaking, especially since you either have an in-line DAC as part of the headphone or are using an external DAC that you'd have to program manually anyway.
@@jtnachos16 I know.
But if I were to be Crin I'd at least consider this feature.
I mean he already has collabs for most people. Why not make this one stand out by adding personalized eq options?
It already has a dsp module that contains 4 different eq profiles. Groundwork is already there.
Blessing 3 dusk when ?
Didn't he say February?
Blessing*
End of Q1 heading into q2 (best case) , cny is delaying the production but give or take, Soon™
Sometime after cny according to his twitter
soon
DSP can be any form of processing audio digitally on a chip within a device instead in a computer like device.
DSP in studios will be a form of using plugins on a mic input without the latency of going into a computer and back out.
I would hope DSP in headphones would be doing a little more than just eq... I would say some headphones need a dynamic EQ, and others, even more types of processing.
EQ is a very basic fix, sometimes you need the EQ to change based on the amount going on the certain frequency.
Say "these headphones are okay in the UPPER-MIDS until they get crowed and a dynamic EQ could bring down a few thin notices in parts of that area hen that happens to keep the clarity working.
That's the sort of thing we do in mixing, the mix bus, and even mastering when we have to master something that isn't mixed properly lol.
I do think that most companies do just do EQ... I would hope they would do more... if they are going to put it in, go to more effort than just EQ
My audio interface has dsp plugins, but the ones that are guitar amps are shit unforunately
"Whatever doesn't offend you." 😂
DSP? DSP is a COMPETITIVE PRO MEANINGFUL STYLE PLAYER that plays ROBUST GAMEPLAY for STREET FIGHTER. He did nothing wrong, he does everything correct.
Thank god someone said it lol
Nahh dsp is a Dick Smith Product dsp
I ask myself regularly why Dark Side Phil is, and I have yet to get an answer.
Oh hi happy new year!
I like how ironic and funny is it that I understand your point about DSP being a "fix it in post" joke but going through the digital source files to analog flow, it is more like "fix it at the source" solution.
DSP in studios, home theatre and car audio also align the timing, besides EQing. I believe some multiple drivers IEMs also utilise this function to correct the timing.
You can use DSP to do a lot of things, they are programmable specialized processors that can accelerate certain tasks. In audio they are commonly used to add effects, do FFT and EQ. Google uses the DSP on snapdragon phones to process HDR photos. DSPs are also what was used in cameras to process the data that the ADC read from the sensor. Also used in video processing. DSP isn't EQ, although it can do EQ..
thanks for the vid 🙏🏻
Am watching this with Hexa and the FreeDSP cable doing a tad of EQ. I'm a fan.
You can always use something like the Qudelix 5k, which has a 20 band PEQ in the device, plus support for the autoeq database in software. This avoids having to use a different dac/cable for each product.
Or any Android phone also can do dsp
@@MrNoipe right, but that's not quite as convenient, even with something like wavelet (which is still pretty good).
Yes, this is the go-to solution if you want to use PEQ on an iPhone.
Knowing how the Dusk ended up with a DSP cable, this video makes more sense.
Merry christmas
Having just watched his DUSK video, I think I know which frequency response / peak he is referring to at 5:37
I miss your old studio.
perfect for me, my ear canals align to iec-711 specifications :)
Yeah why do iems have dark side phyll?
The term "DSP" has been used liberally since the 1990s. In the old universe, I would use EQ to adjust specific frequencies, while "DSP" applied effects to the output sound, e.g. club, concert hall, football stadium, church, etc. 😂
Thanks :)
For an engineer, DSP is more then just EQ. As the name suggests, any kinds of processing before DAC is a form of DSP.
Also, EQ and most of the "DSP" can be achived using analog circuit, which is how we did it without "DSP" before microprocessors were a thing.
On the latter point, main thing in this context is form factor right? I would guess the kind of things you can do with a DSP chip would require a good amount more space to do in analog form at audio frequencies (I don't work in anlog components tho so maybe you could SoC it small enough idk). In less mobile setups I feel like people do use Analog solutions for that stuff in headphone amps and such
@@anachronismic You can often find small circuit bord with couple of resistors and capacitors within IMEs (especially multi driver ones), although mainly used to do the frequency spliting, but doing it is also part of the tuning job(the CRN scandal is one of the more interesting case, for example).
If you got to the point of using a SoC, it's DSP.
Agreed. While the simplification in the video is for the average audience, DSP can be discussed further and not all DSPs are the same. For example, back then in the early days of DSP IEMs, I remember it is about skipping the DSP in the smartphone which has its pros and cons.
@@MarkCupLee yeah that's what I figured, thanks for the response!
Who is DSP? It's the guy! I am watching his stream!
He did nothing wrong!
@@MrSilverio13 He did everything correct dood!
I heard the Linsoul Kiwi are great, i might use your code to pick some up
Updated Wireless Earphone Ranking video would be dope 😎
back again for the algorithm
This is how the buds 2 pro have changed its sound signature over time through updates. The DSP is getting updated...
I did EE and DSP class was one of the hardest
Ok, crin is 100% gonna release a usb c iem in like 1/2 months
Woe, DSP be upon ye
God, I’ve been working with QSC’s line of Dante DSPs for the past few years. As soon as I saw this was about DSPs I was filled with rage lol
Discovered the 7hz Salnotes Zero about 10 days ago after buying a pair on a whim on Amazon. TWENTY FUCKING DOLLARS and this IEM sounds better than IEM's I've owned that were $150 to $200. Best value IEM (based on the ones I've heard) on the planet. Already have the black, white, MECHA red, and I have the orange and blue on the way. Gotta catch ’em all!
Have you tried the Zero 2? I wonder what you would think.
@@peanutjam I currently have no interest, at the moment, in trying the Zero 2
@@peanutjam Zero 2's have a bit more substance in the low end (bass isn't as superficial), and less shrill in the 10Khz range, midrange seems about the same, perhaps slightly less sharp of a scoop.
While I'm still happy with the originals as a daily driver for my Walkman (hooray for EQ), once I inevitably break them, I'm switching to the Zero 2's.
Have a feeling the new dusk will use dsp
It does.
To me it's great but I hope it let's us upload our own eq values
It will, you can see that on Crin's graph comparison tool. And this video is basically a priming to it's release, I believe.
@@juanblanco7898 I can already feel the presence of salt towards eq haters in his video. :D
I hope it uses a powerful dac though, like the one that dawn pro has.
And some options to fine tune would be great: like a dedicated software to upload a personalized eq profile to the dsp module.
@@mehmetgurdal I don't think there's any chance the DAC implementation will be even close to the Dawn Pro. There's only so much they can do in this form factor, sadly. I just hope that the cable is going to be better than the already existing Moondrop's DSP cables. And yeah, the software better be improved significantly. Currently existing limitations have no place on a $300 product, that's for sure.
letss goo dusk 3 dsp
I don't think anyone needs to know who DSP is lol
Wish there is an affordable, simple USB C DSP cable where you can add whatever EQ profile you want like an AutoEQ and it will apply to any USB C device like an iPhone 15, MacBook, Switch, etc. I know Moondrop created one but I think it only works on Android with a dedicated app. There’s also Qudelix 5K DAC but that’s 110 USD
The Qudelix will be an investment worth making, honestly. It gives any 3,5 mm headphones Bluetooth capability, as well! But in the end, you decide for yourself what's worth the money.
a dsp is basically a digital to digital converter, hardware and firmware (software in the hardware) eq. and all audio dacs have one because all of them need it. you have to prepare a signal so it comes out of the dacs preamp correctly. typically it doesnt do anything to color the sound. all bluetooth headsets use the dsp to correct the headphone, so if you have a wired type c headphone that has a dac, why not tune them with it? you can run into a problem with processing where that makes the sound worse, i notice this in my cars headunit, if i turn the eq on even with a flat preset, the sound gets noticeably compressed, but your system typically has enough processing power to basically emulated a dsp in software eq well, and if the dsp in the headphones can handle the processing well enough, then theres no complains there either.
Crin is absolutely right. Analog tuning is VERY difficult. That's why Moondrop Variation is the best IEM in the world! /s
The biggest flaw of DSP is the longevity of the ships material.
Your build in DAC might have its circuitry broken and you will end up with a wonky tuned iem that lost all its controlled tuning.
Electronic failure its a thing you don't notice until its too late.
A power surge , high heat, high humidity conditions could damage DSP chips, think about it when you consider it to be the future of iems.
Software EQ shippe with your favorite player device is much safer option.
Also this would not extends the characteristics of the drivers, their resolution or timbre will not improve under DSP because what is producing the sound is already pushed to it limits wit good power source.
In other words nothing beat analog tuning mastery.
Hey crinacle, thanks for your videos! Any chance of getting a review of the moondrop space travel? TWS for 25$ with great sound
How exactly do pads change the sound signature of the drivers?
I can understand that different pad materials might absorb some echoing or isolate outside noise. But I can't understand how (like in Graph 3:08) balanced pads reduce bass or shift the whole right portion of the mids-high? Like why doesn't the 600-800Hz range change? Surely there is some form of linearity of change?
bro was preparing himself for the dusk 3
Hey crin, will there be future video discussing about stereo expand? Since the topic is regarding dsp currently (also very nice and informative video👍). I'm not very in the deep about audiophile stuff but i heard that generally doing spatial enhance/stereo ex dsp is very bad in context of audio tuning, i guess in this case, digitally or uhh... fix it in post (that phrase goes hard ngl🗿). What's your opinion regarding this? Also love you always, Crin🤗🤗 and as always, I'll be f*cking off 🫡
Sad to see DSP relegated to only EQ (and technically ANC), you could do it like Creative with their Crystallizer which is a dynamic range expander (+ v-curve eq -.-). On the SB Evo ZX(R) it could even be saved on-device. I'm not saying it's neccessarily good, but I'd like more on-device profiles ffs.
Blessing 3 Dusk DSP
true,i use dsp for some of my chi fi iem to tame the harshness 😊
dsp is the reason that i am studying electronic and electrical engineering
DSP?! Isn’t that the nightmare engineering session where you use Fourier transform on everything 😮
Crinacle what lenses do u use in ur glasses?
Darkside Phil?
A bit off topic , but I need a review on the Jaben 1 custom junior and thie audio hype 2
Please help! I am looking for new inears and I consider getting the IE400. I am a big fan of Sennheiser and I generally like the way they deal with treble and vocals. Ive once bought the DT990 Pro and as much as I wanted to like them, the treble did just fatigue my ears after listening a while, I did send them back. I also bought the CX+ true wireless because I wanted something for on the go and when riding my bike, but I have a love-hate relationship with them. They sound too boomey and too V shaped to me, but I can also appreciate that the lows are way more prominent than with the HD650. Now I am looking for inears that do give me the experience the way it was intended, but don’t lack bass in general. Can anyone confirm the IE 400 give me the bass I want when listening to 50cent and the clarity I want when listening to Andrea Bocelli? I really want something that does it all but has the typical Sennheiser treble. I also like the fact that I can hook them to the bluetooth module when riding a bike and wind noise is more of a disturbance than bandwidth. Thanks in advance
"Who is DSP?" is a loaded question
So from this video I pull out that there is no deficit to DSP, only that the manufacturer has to do a half good job with it at the bare minimum to make good sound.
And that analog tuning is pretty much a waste of time since one can digitally fix the problems analog tuning would get close to fixing. Analog tuning also probably costing more since it requires more R&D and prototypes, DSP just being a chip with different codes saved onto the storage.
This video brought to you by our Chifi overlords, Linsoul!
mr crinacle, are you going to make a review for the Moondrop Space Travel?
New video on update on upcoming collabs. I have your CRN and the left earpiece just gave up sound. I need to buy a new IEM this year😅
DSP Iem video? Pleb galore for sure.
dsp is what you find inside radios
Thanks for the video...I am a newbie to IEMs and android. Does the android automatically take precedent over the DSP in an In Ear Earphone re its settings??
DSP is also crossovers and a bunch of stuff
Please review Moondrop CHU 2 !!!!!!!
What are your thoughts on the Status Audio True Wireless buds?
I would be really interested in "room" correction for junk speakers, but 100€ plus for miniDSP is just too much.
Having a pc always in the loop is also too unconvinient.
It is really funny that all the affordable dacs / amps producers have not figured out to include eq either.
So what are my options? OpenDSP with a Pi or ESP? Abusing a 20$ usbc in ear cable wth EQ?
I think the whole video is about the announcement of Dusk V2
When is there gonna be a “Best tws” video?
Who is DSP?, and more to the point, Why is DSP... DSP? are legitimate questions if you know a specific person of that name.
Why Apple has no Parametric 10 band EQ is beyond me, they still use terrible EQ presets that were made for the Ipod Classic over 20+ Years ago, if Apple implemented natively a Parametric EQ for Iphone and IOS users who use other devices it will give more people who really care about their sound quality to fine tune their sound more to their liking.
They do not want to give users control. Apple wants a unified user experience even if it means the options are awful.
@@noonesomeone669 Oh really, but why can't Apple just put a Parametric EQ in the Iphone settings as well as the presets to give people more options, what could it hurt them to do that.
@@robertobuatti7226 Afaik, nobody does that, really. And Apple would certainly be the last ones to provide such a feature.
Well yes, but does android have a native system-wide parametric eq out of the box? Mac OS? Windows? Any popular linux distros?
@@juanblanco7898 Yes definitely, Apple never give us (the end user) any control especially with our tunes, they even limit the volume most times by decreasing the volume when it reaches a certain SPL compared to Android in which doesn't, because I used to own an Android phone with the Poweramp app which has a 10 band EQ and you can fine tune each frequency more to your liking without the volume decrease.
Nobody ever asks how is DSP
They always ask what is DSP, but noone asks how is DSP😔
The personalised DSP of the OnePlus Buds Pro 2 is totally amazing and makes them shine far above their price-point.
If I could take a personalised EQ into the Mojo 2 and out to my Sony MDR-Z1R I'd be extremely happy. One day hopefully, one day.
Does the impulse response fully characterise an IEM?
Questions : does type-C IEMs activate the Hiress Audio on Samsung devices like 24bit or 32bit ? Instead of using an amplifier
Couldn't a manufacturer embed a writable DSP chip in the headphone, allowing it to be written over USB and also have an analog input to use standard cables. Thereby having a customizable DSP Profile you could use across devices?
Just ordered Moondrop Chu 2 DSP. Let's see how it goes...
Is Chu 2 have a DSP variant? I saw that is some store but not on the moondrop’s website.
Yes it does.
That's why the moondrop may is almost 2 different iem, if you change de the cable to a non dsp you have a "new" sound
It really isnt, u can just disable the EQ settings when using the dsp cable, unless u want to count every possible EQ setting as a new iem, then a DSP cable is almost infinite iems
Yeap, you're right @@krazybonnie5523
Equalizer bandaid more or less basically?
Incredible that raycon use dsp and still can't tune an earbud worth a damn
Question: if I want the sound of the Dusk DSP presets but use my DAP can I just set my EQ to Crin’s settings and save the profile? How would I get those settings?
I’m a total newb to EQ, never tried it at all
Dang
DSP is just MSG for sound
Will zero 2 come in type c with dsp
DSP stands for Degree Stopping Paper
Hi Crin. Have you ever tried Creative SXFI Trio?
Tangzu Wan'er measurement on your site when?
will there be a review for the maxwell