This system is honestly why I stopped playing Legion like two months in. It's boring and makes me feel like if I stop playing for even a day I'm behind everyone else and there's no way to really catch up to them. Not to mention I dread the thought of even trying to return or start a new character because I'm so far behind.
Yeah I'm in the same boat with wow, quit after only acouple months into legion. I played black desert when it came out in the US and it was the same treadmill experience. In BDO I grinded the best gear and items, leveld my armor and weapons to max and then they just added new levels to items making the treadmill never stop. It doesn't take long to realize you'll never get to eat your carrot, at best you'll get a chance to taste it, and once that happens you feel hollow inside like everything you've done has been a waste. Asmon nailed it, there is no perfect system, theres just a system that will attract some and alienate others.
Very good point. They basically force you to play otherwise you fall behind, hence no one wants to do dungeons or raids with you and you are stuck in an endless circle. Blizzard just wants the money.
Grinding for AP feels just like how grinding for a 99 stat used to be when I played Runescape back in the day. Literally just endlessly doing the same thing over and over until you hit the max level.
atleast in runescape the grinding isn't wasted next year when a new expa comes, legion requires so much grinding and dedication for something thats only gonna be good for a small amount of time
I admire you for being so dedicated to WoW for all these years. I play since BC and currently I just cannot be arsed to grind stuff. I'm not into mythic raiding even, because it's too demanding and etc, I just want to chill with cool people, stab dragons, get loot, experience the story and content and that's it.
Mythic raiding is definitely not as demanding as you think it is. I haven't done anything on my 5/7 priest in like over a week and my guild doesn't even care. I cant say the same for future raids though
I feel you...game gets so boring just playing 1 toon idk how you plebs do it.....I was bored of first 110 like 1 week after hitting 110...if they made it more engaging instead of grindy af...now dont even have motivation to play alts knowing the grind ahead of me...legion pretty lackluster as a whole imo...it all sounded amazing on paper..
I.D.C INC I mean isn't the goal of wow to reach max level then grind to be able to complete top level content? If you don't like grinding/looters then I think you have the wrong game? I mean I know this is not true a lot of people don't even play for max level content but I use say there is so much more then you are probably doing so it's not fair to conplain
Artifact power is fun and good progression after lvl 110, i like it alot. This system has pulled me into the game a lot more than previous expansions. I feel like everything i do is important and has some sort of meaning towards progressing my character.
the way i view it, if you want to put in the time to do something to acquire a reward or benefit then go for it. people not whiling to put in that time can't complain about not getting said benefit or reward once i get my paragon level im not gonna burden my self feeling i MUST get EVERY single extra talent of it but its something eventually over time you will get juts by playing the game
by no means am i talking about legendary's or boss drop loot from raids or mythic + my statement was based on what the video is about, the artifact power paragon traits. if your going to put in the time to fully max out even the paragon levels for the reward/benefit then good. people who aren't whiling to put in the time for that grind to me can't complain about not having that benefit/reward
just curious how does it not? if you put in the time to farm the AP you will eventually level your paragon levels up?
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The problem isn't peoples willingness to farm maw, but their ability. Many people only have time to attend raids and get the necessary preparation done (buffs etc). If their guild is serious about progression these players might get replaced because there are other players who have all the time in the world to farm maw. In any other previous expansion these players wouldn't have been replaced, because there wasn't any major benefit to players who had 8+hrs to spend in WoW each day.
dude the AP grind killed alts. And since I got burnt out with my mage from grinding AP. I tried to switch into another class only to realize that resetting an AP grind was the worst thing blizzard could have done to me at that point.
That's really the entire issue, I would guess most of the people playing WoW in the west are working adults with families, yet they've adopted an Asian style grind system. It's just not great for the market share they own nowadays. I think that's the main reason people are quitting now. People lauded Legion in the first month when it had this amazing surface intensity, but then promptly derided it when the deeper meaningless of the grind became apparent.
i also really like your idea of scaling artifact power with the dungeons that take longer too . You really do think of everything and youre very logical
Hey Asmon, great video and something I've thought a lot about myself. As someone on my server who has constantly been ahead in AP, it continues to bother me the extreme grindiness that comes to getting the 54th trait. With AK 25 being the limit right now, that grindiness is now going to carry over to my Enhance/Elemental weapons as well. While it helps to weed out the bad from the good, I think the system is causing an unnecessary level of stress and weeding players out incorrectly. Sure, someone could have their 54th trait, but have nearly no idea that they're not playing their rotation to the maximum potential. While on the other hand, we have a hunter who's played since Vanilla, knows the class with the back of their hand, and is simply being outshined by someone who has more time. It seems the game has turned into such this grind where it favors time spent rather than skill obtained. I don't know an easy fix for it, but I don't like the system at all.
I would have to say this system of a soft skill cap with a hard skill cap at 54 traits has been good. It brought back a nostalgia of a version of the old talent tree system. The 9.5% extra power that you get from trait 36 to 54 will be something players will eventually get if they play enough. Remember this expansion released less than 20 weeks ago. Having rewards for those that want to grind it and targets for those that play for the entire expansion was a good idea and well implemented.
It was so people would ahve things to do all the time when you maxed your level something wow players have SCREAMED there heads off for for YEARS and now you have it people complain that they need to max this out.
Salim Osman blizzard is pretty ignorant to community changes. Honestly can't even remember the last time they said "by popular demmand" in a change log
***** Or just play the game do random things and you will get your ap up the only mandetory grind is the 35 points rest is on you. do it help sure but is it so much that some one with it and some one without it are in to different worlds hell no. (when people with the best legendaries and people with the worst can still top of world rankings those 9,5% wont matter that much as those legendaries in some cases do it by 25% or more)
You are an idiot, how are they slowing you down? You think having the best gear in the game attainable goal for you? Its not! and thats OK. This is an mmorpg, a hobby game about SLOWLY improving your character.. Lets say you get your ap maxed out tommorow, my prognosis would be you quitting the expansion within a week or two. The chase is better than the catch. Learn some restraint. It everything was give n to you on a silver platter there wouldnt be much of a game to be had. And if you dont like inconviniences well gaming isnt for you because its based on solving incinviniences over time by WORKING on them. Its called gameplay. Anyone who wants blizzard to make them a hero instead of their own sweat and hard work is a spoiled cunt, and whoever doesnt care to diminish the acheivements of others as long as he gets his way is a fucking grubby piece of shit.
The extra traits are there to satify those who wants ANYTHING to do to improve their character, I think. As long as they don't become a requirement, I am fine with it.
I personally love the system, but have no interest in doing it like this. I'll eventually get the 54th trait, I'm in no rush. We don't need the extra 9 percent to kill bosses, and if I spent this much time playing it would really burn me out. Its awesome that they give people who are super serious a way to continually upgrade their character. That's something that has pretty much never existed in the game. But if anyone is going to complain that they don't want to do this, then don't. You don't get to complain about how hardcore being hardcore is!
People seem to forget the static +1% dmg and +.75% stam increase you get for each trait goes all the way to trait 54 (not 34 as stated in the tooltip). So instead of a 14.5% dmg gain going from 34 to 54, it's actually 34.4%, which is huge.
You pretty much nailed my thoughts on the matter. I actually lost my raid spot with my previous guild because they didn't think I was serious enough due to my artifact level. I work 60-65 hours a week on average (with busy times closer to 75-85 hours) and I am a full time care giver for my handicapped sister so my time is limited unfortunately. I somehow manage to meet the raid schedules but I can't really consistently commit to additional time due to RL commitments. This expansion has been great but I agree that the endless M+ AP grinding has caused some issues with players like myself that want to stay higher progression but can't be available all day. I end up having to settle with getting most of my AP from raid nights, the daily dungeon, and WQs. As much as I hate gating, I feel like if AP would have been gated weekly. They had to have known people would have finished the wep out by now so they could have honestly just done the math to make it possible to cap out the wep this week while enforcing weekly caps. Overall I think the artifacts have been a success as well as the AP system tho. I just feel it's too easy to fall behind if you can't devote 25-30+ hours a week. Gratz to you and those that have the time and gumption to grind that out though. I would be in that boat too if my schedule allowed for it.
fun fact; the only fel relic in the game with the BiS trait for both destro and demo comes from HoV, and this stays true even after nighthold comes out. Im still never going to run HoV tho lmao
It's a tough question. I thought a weekly cap of some sort might work, but Lore said something on his personal account along the lines of "a weekly cap would cause problems because then people would just grind everything out and stop playing" (I think you hinted at that, too). But this was already solved years ago; they had a weekly cap on the number of random heroics you could run each week, they found it was having that exact problem, so they changed the system over to a one-per-day system that I don't think I've heard anyone complain much about. They even improved on it a bit with Legion with the emissary quest system, where you get a three day window to do them, so you can catch up if you get behind (I think you mentioned this a few videos back). That seems like a really good system; why can't they do something like this with Mythic+ and/or artifact power caps? Aside from that, I completely agree with the "other options" idea. If M+ are going to be farmable for AP, there should be other options to do the same thing. Blizzard stated their goal with M+ was an "alternate gearing path, to give players more options." Right now, there's one realistic option for grinding out AP. That's less player option, and if you don't like M+ that much (like me), you're kind of just screwed. I prefer raiding and doing world content, so letting me grind out raids or uncapping world quests would bring those up to parity, I think.
zant as i see you commenting again with basicly the same comment yes you miss it otherwise you would not watch a video about the game. But glad you did stop as clearly it was an addiction to you when you cant stop watching content about it even after you have stoped.
Artifact Power grinding sucks fucking balls and I hate it so much. I hate being forced to log on to WoW for a minimum of 3 hours everyday to bang out 15+ world quests and random heroic/bg just so I can stay competitive. That's not even counting the metric fucktons of mythic pluses I run on the weekends for extra AP.
I think the main issue is that Maw of Souls was really the only place to farm AP and Raiding didn't give you any. It made the only way to get Max artifact level to spam 1 dungeon a couple hundred times. If people had 10 choices I don't think they would have gotten burned out as easily.
They could do a system that scales your whole artifact power by a factor of 1.3 every time you research a scroll. This would still create a time gating, but your previous work would not have get devalidated just because you did all those dungeons when you had less AP.
Back in Guild Wars 2, many players would do frequent speed runs of the dungeons, particulary specific paths for gold so they can make money for the legendaries. The one dungeon I remember well was CoF p1 and p2 cause the gold that players made was insane. 20-30 gold per hour was the rule. And theoretically you could make enough gold to buy or craft your own legendary. This feels similar. Players choosing a specific path for AP grind and not really realizing what other dungeons should need.
Thanks for this video, this got me to spend more time farming/grinding and being more pro active rather than taking it at my own pace. Its painfully slow but its gotta be done and im glad im doing it now knowing im gona be finished soon!
Personally I just play the game in anyway I want to get AP, sometime we farm M+ dungeons with guildies (any dungeons .. except some cancerous one, depending on the affix), sometime we do rated PvP and sometime I do plenty of WQs alone. Obviously, I am not in a hardcore guild like you Asmon, so I am not pressured to farm AP and leggys to keep my spot in the raid, we only raid 2 days/week but we still managed to down 7/7M and 1/3M and I am currently sitting at ilvl 886 equipped with 44 traits !!
It seems to me that a simple way to improve the acquisition of artifact power would be to scrap the artifact knowledge system and apply the progressive increase in artifact power granted by that system to the traits such that each time you place a trait on your weapon, all artifact power gained is multiplied in the same way that artifact knowledge does now, stage by stage.
With the AP being rewarded at the end of M+ Dungeons, each dungeon should have a token value associated with it, determined by dungeon length and perceived difficulty. Weather you have this value modified by the AK or chest timer is a different story. Its all about setting a baseline that is the same across all dungeons, to equalize the effort vs reward.
They're allowing Artifact Knowledge catch ups for Order resources in 7.1.5 too, i totally agree it shouldnt be something to Wait a few days it should be something you can Farm just like the artifact power itself
Very intuitive video, those were things on my mind for a while. Nice clear, balanced and concise reasoning. I've been hearing twitch streamers complain about the AP system without the same level of reasoning as you have exhibited for their feelings/thoughts on the matter.
The Idea as consistent progression goal is nice but in execution all you get is grind the same AP in a bleak exponential fashion (First one free, last one like dozens of hours with the highest Artifact Knowledge and most difficult dungeons) for an unsatisfying tiny number increase of strengths. They could added a little bit extra at least such as a mini-talent, Artifact glow, Prestige style Portrait edit... anything really other than nothing.
one of the strategies I used was replaced my 880 crap relic with a 855 bis relic that drops from dht. my goal was to get a 875+. the result was running about 85 dhts which in the process I got to lvl 49 on my doom hammer and a 875 relic. felt good and motivating. now I'm 51.5 shooting for 54 which doesn't feel as bad.
If AP scaled with amounts of bosses in a dungeon, that would just make Vault of the Wardens the most efficient. I think they should scale AP with the max amount of time that you have to clear the instance without depleting it, and then balance it out from there. Currently that wouldnt be as balanced, but it would be a lot easier to scale that the correct way.
Giving it a cap per week like u said seems pretty simple to implement and effective, and if u can't meet the cap certain week cause of work, traveling, etc the cap adds into the next week's cap.
The major flaw with Artifact Power is when Blizzard does major changes to classes and specs. We had a few raiders that played Frost Mages for ages, the xpac launched and that spec was horrible so they had to switch. Dumping tons of work and AP into a spec they don't enjoy. Then it was "fixed". Now they are screwed. They can't go back to Frost without re-grinding that AP. I fear the same will happen to others when 7.1.5 hits. They have spent months playing a spec only to have tweaked and not fitting with raid makeup or play style or just sucks because it was nerfed into the ground. I believe Blizz should refund all AP when they do major changes like this upcoming patch like days of yore when they would refund talent points once for free. Thoughts?
The AP and AR system made think about how good we had it in previous expansions, i miss the days where i dont have to redo instance just for the sake of rolling on a better version of the same gear, and on top of that you also have to do it for AP over and over again ...... I started late this x-pack and burned out early trying to catch up since the gap between having and not having is massive, the system is quite nice if you played since the start of the X-pack though.
As it stands now I believe the M+ is more attractive to a lot of people than raiding. My guild began with 18 raiders at the start of the expac, when we made our LAST attempt to raid EN at 4/7H we had 8. People were doing M+ instead of raiding. This makes sense when you realize that most people hang out in real life with groups of 5 or less, not 20. The reward structure for M+ is also very attractive as each one is much quicker than a raid. Easier for working people to schedule in than a three hour raid. "So screw raiding I will just do M+ and my gear level will be just fine."
When you get full ap, can you put more ap into that wep? Or is it just full and you can't even use the ap items? Should I keep ap items in my bank until they add more traits? Imagine that day, some people will have all new traits day 1.
I understand your point of view, but from my point of view, the AP bonus seems decent. The alternative was the timed release of bosses (like ICC, etc) which left hardcore players without content while they waited. The AP grind gives hardcore players the ability to play the game as much as they want, and still make progress, while allowing casual players to still almost stay relevant, and not constantly be way behind.
I'm tired of the WoW formula of get to max level -> Do dungeons/raids -> wait for content patch. Before anyone hangs me: I *have* done a shit ton of achievements and had tons of fun doing them, too. I've soloed most old content on my warlock which also was fun, considering how I had to adapt to each situation, and I loved the Brawler's guild. Farming AP all day every day isn't a better system. It's just a thing to make people who spent a lot of time with the game stronger, and people who get back into it weaker a bit and requires shittons of farming like a mad man. On top of that, *nothing else changed*. You still get from 100 to 110 in Legion, do dungeons & raids and that's it. World quests were a cool idea, but once you figured out they're just world quests with RNG items you kinda lose interest and only do the ones that award big AP or high ilvl gear. Then there's the mythic+ dungeon system, AKA how often can you do a dungeon with almost nothing changing? I'd rather play PoE if nothing but 2 little mechanics happen to the place. New layouts, randomly flung in bosses etc. would help a great deal, but that'd mean abandoning the 3-5 bosses per dungeon-> done formula Blizz has become efficient at, so it'd probably take a good bit of time to get sth like that rolling (except they did the latter in Raids so it wouldn't be too difficult but oh well.) - Add on to that not a whole host of cool raids, as EN was...Pretty ok and that's it, and you have a bored playerbase. I left Legion after 3 months of play and have not entered Karazhan. It looks awesome. Good enough to sub into the game again? Not at all. But good on Blizz to atleast churn out *some* content. I guess it all boils down to how long you've played Wow yet. At some point you'll grow sick of the game, just because of how much you played it. I'm sure I'll come back, eventually. They all do. But for now, legion lost me atleast.
Very good point. I quit as well because I felt burned out and realized how shallow the game is. Im not saying the game is bad but came to a realization that instead of playing the game the game was playing me :( too much grind
The ap system is the reason why i still am playing. I love logging on and having something useful to do, besides playing alt Nr. 42. Although at one time, about the beginning of november till the end of christmas, i did nothing but logging on for raids 3 times a week. I had like 32 traits and noone wants a moonkin in m+.But i kept my artifakt knowledge up and spent some ap on healing weapon. Now im trait 40 in 2 weeks, while not playing alot. If you do Worldquests for 1-2h a day you will be easily above me, not doing any m+. Id rather have a way of falling behind, than logging on after 3 monts of break and having jackshit to do besides level alts.
I like WoW but also I don't like that it feels like a grindy second job. I actually didn't mind the grindy aspect of it when I was a kid but now it's just tedious and time consuming.
I want the 54th trait but I'm currently bored asf with grinding so I haven't farmed for over week. I was getting to the point where I was going to quit wow because I have to grind so much.
I thought I was playing a Blizzard's game not a GrindingGearGames' (GGG) Game D: World of Warcraft: Grinding should be the name of this patch, 7.2 they will release more grinding to do, which will kill even more players from the game and totally will kill casuals since everyone will have 54 traits, they will have 12 and even the pugs won't accept them anymore. Another population drop due to lack of ahead planning, again, WoD didn't teach them a lesson it seems...
Problem is Blizzard wont realize this because they think the more grinding content release the more it will keep the players "busy" I quit exactly for this reason. The game doesnt offer anything after a while and you start to wonder if youre even playing the game rather than working like a lab rat. Really sad how blizzard is just lazy to make new content, they rather make repeatable dungeons...
"I thought I was playing a Blizzard's game not a GrindingGearGames' (GGG) Game D:" lol, WoW and most MMOs have always been about grinding. Dungeons, raids, Dungeons, raids fight bosses over and over again just to get more gear and then go do higher level dungeons/raids.
As for the Motivational part your right, sometimes I have a issue doing World Quest the only time I do world quest is to ether find upgraded gear rewards after the new update I have at least try to do the World Quest.
love this system, hope every expac is similar to this. Also it doesn't have to be a grind as long as you aren't a super competitive mythic raider, some people that are complaining about the grind didn't even do mythic NH.
I quit the game pretty much because of Artifact Power, and to a lesser extent legendaries. Being out performed by people that I was at the same/slightly higher skill level, simply because they could play 18hrs a day and I can't, just made me say "What's the point of even trying"
I also finished my 54 traits as recently as yesterday. I only did 391 dungeon in total. Most of the time I was not doing my world quest for AP. I rushed for AP twice, to get 35 traits and now to get 54. that's 2 weeks of farming outside of that I was doing no mythic+ at all. Now the biggest reward is that I am DONE with mythic+ I can just say FUCK that whenever someone asks me.
As a Casual who have not even unlocked my paragon lvl yet, I like AP. IT is nice to always get something from a dungeon, even though you did not get any gear.
Hey Asmon You talk about Maw of Souls being the best way to farm AP and whatnot, can we get guides on this sort of thing? Why is Maw of Souls the best? What is Maw of Souls? What's the best/most efficient way to do everything? More guides, more information please.
You literally sit in a group, have people either link you keys to get carried through MoS because it is the shortest and most time-efficient dungeon in the game and make it for 2-3 boxes depending on the level of the key, and get rewarded AP for it. That's it.
Perhaps I went a bit far with that question, but my point was basically that he's completely maxed out his arms artifact, and there's no guide to be found about the most efficient way to do so. FWIW, I just resubbed 3 weeks ago and I'm 860 with 24 traits in DPS and 18 in Tank. I really just want to know how best to do things. It's kind of hard to find up to date information on how systems work and what changes have been made. Lots of the info out there is from alpha/beta and no longer relevant. I just want to learn from someone who's been actively playing. Thinking about it now, it's probably best he waits until 7.1.5 drops before he makes any guides, since they may join the heap of irrelevant info out there in just a matter of days.
Maw of Souls is a dungeon you can complete in 10 minutes even on a +9 difficulty keystone. Thus, it is an efficient way to farm AP and gear as you can create a carry group and find players who have MoS keystones that they want carried. I mean that's literally all there is to it. Nothing changes with patch 7.1.5 in terms of farming AP. Just because a new patch drops, it doesn't mean old ways of doing things change unless it is specified in patch notes, for example, if an extra boss or two were to be added to the Maw of Souls dungeon. And if you really want to find out the most efficient way to do things, I'd suggest asking on the WoW forums, MMOchamp forums, asking geared people on your server, etc etc. Asking a popular youtuber on the comments section of his video will most likely not yield very good results.
I have the same feeling of completion, my 5 man mythic+ group finally finished +15 Keystone in time yesterday. And it felt amazing, and it still does feel really good. Im on EU and this week we just had to push it, since next weeks are going to be cancerous.... :D
For me, the artifact wep was just the talent system for this x-pac and the 4th golden trait was dumb. But given that they added it, they should have held off on making it 20 paragon levels until at least Nighthold was out, so if raids were feeling a bit underpowered they could grind out the paragons and give themselves a raidwide 10% or so dmg buff. Too much too soon - geez when Blizz listens they really do go full hog :(
Good in any way! The more you play the more you get. The better you are the faster you get it without making it impossible for those who aren't in hardcore guilds. Absolutely great!
I've leveled 2 characters to 110 on the PTR, I've reached AK 25 on the "main" of those two, and if the experience has taught me anything, it was that spending $35 on a legion game-key and $13 on a month of subscription would be an absolute waste of my money and time. Even free the game is hard to stomach, and unless 7.2 or 7.2.5 brings some OHR -> AK option and some boost to the AP tokens, I'll just skip this entire expansion - and I've been playing since vanilla.
I'm grinding for both ap and resources, I wipe out the map of wqs, run daily heroic, and constantly que mythic plus. I see my friends and guild members play almost 24/7 and they gear up so fast/do crazy damage. Sometimes I think they just don't sleep...
There are some solution which were mentioned. i.e. Caps etc. why not have M+ repeated dungeons have an AP decay? 100% > 75% > 50% each time you repeat a dungeon, like heroic how u have the daily then the repeated decayed version
A good way to do it is just get AP while pushing harder keystones, if you get a spot you do. You reap what you sow but there's no need to complain about endless grinding when it benefits you. It's a great system
This system grinds me out because I recently switched mains. Really I'm just doing some mythics because it's fun atm, AK2 AP isn't really significant when higher AK gives me that in just a worldquest. I think they could have amended this by just having the same AK progress for everyone, that would solve the problem with alts and would make switching mains less painful. We have other grinds to reroll, gear and legendaries mainly, so people wouldn't stop doing the content if that is a concern of blizzards. I get that it feels good to be invested in a class via AK, but I feel that is already a thing with having gear and progress in for example Suramar and the Illidan questline.
What I like about Asmongold is that despite him being in the top %1 of a player base that usually shits on casuals and hates everything that caters to them, Asmongold doesn't do this. He has a great empathy to the casual/new player and can always spot things that would be a problem even though these are not problems he is victim of.
I don't think he's done mythic Helya or the max level for mythic+ (which is endless), so no, he hasn't beat the game. But i do see your point, AP is important if you want to be competetive
He has beat the game since MoP tbh, dude has almost all the mounts in the game, 20k+ achiev points, his main focus is pve and he still has good pvp experience, ( above average). So yeah imo he has beat the game.
What worries me as GM of one of the best 2 day raiding guilds, is that more of my players dont have the time to farm all day to get 54. Now some people do already have it and they are mad at those who dont. The other issue is that the DPS check was so tight on guarm mythic when we were progressing that we pretty much needed a bunch of people with the 35th trait to be safe. I worry that people who dont have 54 will hold us back in Nighthold mythic because I will literally have to replace them for worse players with higher paragon levels. It also sucks for recruiting since if someone applies and they are 20 traits behind half the guild its unfair on the rest who have put the effort in - either that or I would have to ask them "do you intend on grinding out 20 traits in your next few resets?" and its just not what anyone really wants to be doing ESPECIALLY if they are playing a shitty dps class that no one wants to take in a boost group. I like the increasing AP from pvp idea and especially RBGS. It would even be cool if you got more AP from doing it as a guild group to encourage people to play a whole guild. I also would like higher rating in arena and rbgs to give more AP so that people actually want to get better.
My husband has the highest number of points in his weapon of anyone in our two raid team progression guild that includes quite a few disabled players, and stay at home wives with nothing better to do but play wow. His frost weapon is at 47 points after switching from unholy 33 points in on that one. he plays 1-2h a day outside of raid days and works 11 hours a day at a normal job. He doesnt farm AP in m+ during those few hours each day instead focusing on enjoying the game. how you choose to boost your weapon and enjoy the game is entirely up to you, and farming m+ isnt the end all of grinding AP.
The other problem that you didnt mention is that if Arms warrior become really bad, you have to switch to fury and do the grind all over again. They should make AP shared on all your spec its really akward and not fun to refarm for all your specs.
I have up on WoW in this expansion, I stayed sorta in WoD but in this expansion I leveled my pallys artifact then stopped playing for a week decided to come back and play a monk and realized I had to get all my power again and I just felt nauseous.
I liked it well enough, and now that we have the catch mechanic coming in 7.1.5, my biggest issue with it is being resolved. I agree that the amount of AP reward is quite low for many things, leading to the MoS issue. Tl;dr: the reward amount need some balancing but overall, I thought it was fine.
Im at rank 46, artifact knowledge maxed out. Doesnt feel like farming maw/cos for days, especially that im working now, still do mythic+ at least 3 nights/week, only with guildies, whatever keystones we have. Not a mythic guild only hc(missing ppl to go mythic), and i have the highest weapon in the guild. I feel im progressing with my weapon fast enough, and i dont want to farm dungeons with random ppl. I enjoy the game like this. Doesnt feel annoying or too grindy, i enjoy doing mythic+ with my friends from the guild.
This expansion made me think a lot about how I am spending time. I was trying to do all the content, everything there is to give me AP, but in the end of I wasn't feeling happy, it wasn't fun. When people cried out for there being a lack of content, they didn't want the most grindy expansion ever. And now since I have been playing a lot less in the past month, I am seeing back peddling, ambi-turning players, whose class is so pruned that they only need to hit 3 buttons, but still do more dmg than me, because they have over 15 traits more than me. It's not about skill anymore, everyone can play the game atm and be good at it, there is no self improvement and that makes the game dumb and boring. It's all about that AP, titanforging and legendary farm. Thanks blizzard for making me quit after 10 years of good memories.
It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the AP grind was worth it, but you really know the truth and just can't admit it. Good job and congrats. Now give it some time and really let it sink in.
i literally cannot be bothered to go past 35 traits. I am hopeful they will expand the current system to include more meaningful choices than the existing 36-54 grind.
I went away to see family for 10 days over Christmas, came back and someone who was on the same trait level as me had got 12 traits in 10 days. Kinda bulkshit
Even if HoV would give more AP there'd still be nobody who'd want to do it. They'd just do Arcway in 12 minutes, have a chance on a high titanforged set item/chrono shard AND avoid having to deal with those annoying stun circle mobs in HoV. There's always going to be that one dungeon nobody wants to do. I have literally seen boost groups for everything except for HoV.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I loled when you said "instead of going to the gym, you go to Maw of Souls"
This system is honestly why I stopped playing Legion like two months in.
It's boring and makes me feel like if I stop playing for even a day I'm behind everyone else and there's no way to really catch up to them.
Not to mention I dread the thought of even trying to return or start a new character because I'm so far behind.
lmao same
Where lies the skill in farming AP? :P Im in the same position, not that its hard or anything but it became very tedious
Yeah I'm in the same boat with wow, quit after only acouple months into legion. I played black desert when it came out in the US and it was the same treadmill experience. In BDO I grinded the best gear and items, leveld my armor and weapons to max and then they just added new levels to items making the treadmill never stop. It doesn't take long to realize you'll never get to eat your carrot, at best you'll get a chance to taste it, and once that happens you feel hollow inside like everything you've done has been a waste. Asmon nailed it, there is no perfect system, theres just a system that will attract some and alienate others.
Very good point. They basically force you to play otherwise you fall behind, hence no one wants to do dungeons or raids with you and you are stuck in an endless circle. Blizzard just wants the money.
Alexander Plechov maybe you should git gud m8. Or just quit like a filthy casual.
Grinding for AP feels just like how grinding for a 99 stat used to be when I played Runescape back in the day. Literally just endlessly doing the same thing over and over until you hit the max level.
Atleast during the RS grind you could watch netflix or do HW or something though haha
Stereotypical Mexican Ludicolo worth it cuz you got a baller cape and emote. This all is pointless in the next expac lololol
except in RS it was more rewarding and in wow none of this would matter in the next expansion
Isnt everything pointless in that case? There's always gonna be new content, so that's not a viable point.
atleast in runescape the grinding isn't wasted next year when a new expa comes, legion requires so much grinding and dedication for something thats only gonna be good for a small amount of time
"Sup girrrrl, I don't go to the gym... I farm Maw of Souls"
I admire you for being so dedicated to WoW for all these years. I play since BC and currently I just cannot be arsed to grind stuff. I'm not into mythic raiding even, because it's too demanding and etc, I just want to chill with cool people, stab dragons, get loot, experience the story and content and that's it.
borek921 right in the feelings :(
borek921 but you can already do that? lol whats with everyone thinking they need to have everything to be compitent in high end content
Martin Covarrubias i don't follow you there buddy
borek921 same here. I raid heroic/ normal and do m+, and also research the lore of warcraft since it's so cool.
Mythic raiding is definitely not as demanding as you think it is. I haven't done anything on my 5/7 priest in like over a week and my guild doesn't even care. I cant say the same for future raids though
When you have +7 alts, the AP system does not work well...
Matt Brackenbury legion is not nice for multi-character players.
Matt Brackenbury just don't have 7+ alts
Matt Brackenbury pick a main and let the rest fall behind :p artifact knowledge will be easy to catch up on starting Tuesday at least :)
I feel you...game gets so boring just playing 1 toon idk how you plebs do it.....I was bored of first 110 like 1 week after hitting 110...if they made it more engaging instead of grindy af...now dont even have motivation to play alts knowing the grind ahead of me...legion pretty lackluster as a whole imo...it all sounded amazing on paper..
I.D.C INC I mean isn't the goal of wow to reach max level then grind to be able to complete top level content? If you don't like grinding/looters then I think you have the wrong game? I mean I know this is not true a lot of people don't even play for max level content but I use say there is so much more then you are probably doing so it's not fair to conplain
Artifact power is fun and good progression after lvl 110, i like it alot. This system has pulled me into the game a lot more than previous expansions. I feel like everything i do is important and has some sort of meaning towards progressing my character.
Undercover Dev spotted.
the way i view it, if you want to put in the time to do something to acquire a reward or benefit then go for it. people not whiling to put in that time can't complain about not getting said benefit or reward
once i get my paragon level im not gonna burden my self feeling i MUST get EVERY single extra talent of it but its something eventually over time you will get juts by playing the game
Chalupa Batman What a ridiculous statement. Many have put in huge amounts of time and effort for rewards but do not get them due to RNG and bad pugs.
by no means am i talking about legendary's or boss drop loot from raids or mythic +
my statement was based on what the video is about, the artifact power paragon traits. if your going to put in the time to fully max out even the paragon levels for the reward/benefit then good. people who aren't whiling to put in the time for that grind to me can't complain about not having that benefit/reward
that is true and a valid complaint about the legendary system however it does not apply to the artifact power system.
just curious how does it not? if you put in the time to farm the AP you will eventually level your paragon levels up?
The problem isn't peoples willingness to farm maw, but their ability. Many people only have time to attend raids and get the necessary preparation done (buffs etc). If their guild is serious about progression these players might get replaced because there are other players who have all the time in the world to farm maw. In any other previous expansion these players wouldn't have been replaced, because there wasn't any major benefit to players who had 8+hrs to spend in WoW each day.
dude the AP grind killed alts. And since I got burnt out with my mage from grinding AP. I tried to switch into another class only to realize that resetting an AP grind was the worst thing blizzard could have done to me at that point.
That's really the entire issue, I would guess most of the people playing WoW in the west are working adults with families, yet they've adopted an Asian style grind system. It's just not great for the market share they own nowadays. I think that's the main reason people are quitting now. People lauded Legion in the first month when it had this amazing surface intensity, but then promptly derided it when the deeper meaningless of the grind became apparent.
i also really like your idea of scaling artifact power with the dungeons that take longer too . You really do think of everything and youre very logical
Hey Asmon, great video and something I've thought a lot about myself. As someone on my server who has constantly been ahead in AP, it continues to bother me the extreme grindiness that comes to getting the 54th trait. With AK 25 being the limit right now, that grindiness is now going to carry over to my Enhance/Elemental weapons as well. While it helps to weed out the bad from the good, I think the system is causing an unnecessary level of stress and weeding players out incorrectly. Sure, someone could have their 54th trait, but have nearly no idea that they're not playing their rotation to the maximum potential. While on the other hand, we have a hunter who's played since Vanilla, knows the class with the back of their hand, and is simply being outshined by someone who has more time. It seems the game has turned into such this grind where it favors time spent rather than skill obtained. I don't know an easy fix for it, but I don't like the system at all.
I would have to say this system of a soft skill cap with a hard skill cap at 54 traits has been good. It brought back a nostalgia of a version of the old talent tree system. The 9.5% extra power that you get from trait 36 to 54 will be something players will eventually get if they play enough. Remember this expansion released less than 20 weeks ago. Having rewards for those that want to grind it and targets for those that play for the entire expansion was a good idea and well implemented.
I have really enjoyed artifact weapons and the whole AP system. One of my favorite features of Legion...
ap is just blizz way of slowing you down..even more
It was so people would ahve things to do all the time when you maxed your level something wow players have SCREAMED there heads off for for YEARS and now you have it people complain that they need to max this out.
I agree..wod was a little dry...but I miss my PvP vendors..really do not like rng..but hey maybe they'll listen n change...
Salim Osman blizzard is pretty ignorant to community changes. Honestly can't even remember the last time they said "by popular demmand" in a change log
*****
Or just play the game do random things and you will get your ap up the only mandetory grind is the 35 points rest is on you.
do it help sure but is it so much that some one with it and some one without it are in to different worlds hell no.
(when people with the best legendaries and people with the worst can still top of world rankings those 9,5% wont matter that much as those legendaries in some cases do it by 25% or more)
You are an idiot, how are they slowing you down? You think having the best gear in the game attainable goal for you? Its not! and thats OK. This is an mmorpg, a hobby game about SLOWLY improving your character.. Lets say you get your ap maxed out tommorow, my prognosis would be you quitting the expansion within a week or two. The chase is better than the catch. Learn some restraint. It everything was give n to you on a silver platter there wouldnt be much of a game to be had. And if you dont like inconviniences well gaming isnt for you because its based on solving incinviniences over time by WORKING on them. Its called gameplay. Anyone who wants blizzard to make them a hero instead of their own sweat and hard work is a spoiled cunt, and whoever doesnt care to diminish the acheivements of others as long as he gets his way is a fucking grubby piece of shit.
"I haven't been playing WoW. I've been playing Maw of Souls."
Classic Asmongold.
The extra traits are there to satify those who wants ANYTHING to do to improve their character, I think. As long as they don't become a requirement, I am fine with it.
Have you played this game before? It was ALWAYS be a requirement within the community.
I personally love the system, but have no interest in doing it like this. I'll eventually get the 54th trait, I'm in no rush. We don't need the extra 9 percent to kill bosses, and if I spent this much time playing it would really burn me out.
Its awesome that they give people who are super serious a way to continually upgrade their character. That's something that has pretty much never existed in the game. But if anyone is going to complain that they don't want to do this, then don't. You don't get to complain about how hardcore being hardcore is!
People seem to forget the static +1% dmg and +.75% stam increase you get for each trait goes all the way to trait 54 (not 34 as stated in the tooltip). So instead of a 14.5% dmg gain going from 34 to 54, it's actually 34.4%, which is huge.
I played at the Legion launch for a month or so. The artifact knowledge thing just kinda killed it for me.
You pretty much nailed my thoughts on the matter. I actually lost my raid spot with my previous guild because they didn't think I was serious enough due to my artifact level. I work 60-65 hours a week on average (with busy times closer to 75-85 hours) and I am a full time care giver for my handicapped sister so my time is limited unfortunately. I somehow manage to meet the raid schedules but I can't really consistently commit to additional time due to RL commitments. This expansion has been great but I agree that the endless M+ AP grinding has caused some issues with players like myself that want to stay higher progression but can't be available all day. I end up having to settle with getting most of my AP from raid nights, the daily dungeon, and WQs. As much as I hate gating, I feel like if AP would have been gated weekly. They had to have known people would have finished the wep out by now so they could have honestly just done the math to make it possible to cap out the wep this week while enforcing weekly caps. Overall I think the artifacts have been a success as well as the AP system tho. I just feel it's too easy to fall behind if you can't devote 25-30+ hours a week. Gratz to you and those that have the time and gumption to grind that out though. I would be in that boat too if my schedule allowed for it.
It was so fun on twitch when you were out of artefact power in your bags, and almost at your last point. Gz dude, you farmed hard, you deserved it.
fun fact; the only fel relic in the game with the BiS trait for both destro and demo comes from HoV, and this stays true even after nighthold comes out. Im still never going to run HoV tho lmao
It's a tough question. I thought a weekly cap of some sort might work, but Lore said something on his personal account along the lines of "a weekly cap would cause problems because then people would just grind everything out and stop playing" (I think you hinted at that, too). But this was already solved years ago; they had a weekly cap on the number of random heroics you could run each week, they found it was having that exact problem, so they changed the system over to a one-per-day system that I don't think I've heard anyone complain much about. They even improved on it a bit with Legion with the emissary quest system, where you get a three day window to do them, so you can catch up if you get behind (I think you mentioned this a few videos back). That seems like a really good system; why can't they do something like this with Mythic+ and/or artifact power caps?
Aside from that, I completely agree with the "other options" idea. If M+ are going to be farmable for AP, there should be other options to do the same thing. Blizzard stated their goal with M+ was an "alternate gearing path, to give players more options." Right now, there's one realistic option for grinding out AP. That's less player option, and if you don't like M+ that much (like me), you're kind of just screwed. I prefer raiding and doing world content, so letting me grind out raids or uncapping world quests would bring those up to parity, I think.
The amount of grind and shit to even compete in WClogs this expansion is abysmal.
legion is making me consider erasing warcraft from my life.
erase it from your life
You will be glad you did if you do.
unsubbing was hard but definitely a great decision now after being away for a few weeks for me my watch has ended.
Ridley already done it, no regrets
zant as i see you commenting again with basicly the same comment yes you miss it otherwise you would not watch a video about the game. But glad you did stop as clearly it was an addiction to you when you cant stop watching content about it even after you have stoped.
Artifact Power grinding sucks fucking balls and I hate it so much. I hate being forced to log on to WoW for a minimum of 3 hours everyday to bang out 15+ world quests and random heroic/bg just so I can stay competitive. That's not even counting the metric fucktons of mythic pluses I run on the weekends for extra AP.
Fred Harvey.you dont have to you fool you dont it by choice
+Dameian Apodaca Except when it's a requirement because of how tight the fights are tuned in Mythic Nighthold, you fool.
Dont ever stop making these vids. back at wow after cupple years and need to learn everything allover again. GJ!
I think the main issue is that Maw of Souls was really the only place to farm AP and Raiding didn't give you any. It made the only way to get Max artifact level to spam 1 dungeon a couple hundred times. If people had 10 choices I don't think they would have gotten burned out as easily.
dude at this point it's not the game who have problems
it's you :D
madtrade no
They could do a system that scales your whole artifact power by a factor of 1.3 every time you research a scroll. This would still create a time gating, but your previous work would not have get devalidated just because you did all those dungeons when you had less AP.
Back in Guild Wars 2, many players would do frequent speed runs of the dungeons, particulary specific paths for gold so they can make money for the legendaries.
The one dungeon I remember well was CoF p1 and p2 cause the gold that players made was insane. 20-30 gold per hour was the rule. And theoretically you could make enough gold to buy or craft your own legendary.
This feels similar. Players choosing a specific path for AP grind and not really realizing what other dungeons should need.
Thanks for this video, this got me to spend more time farming/grinding and being more pro active rather than taking it at my own pace. Its painfully slow but its gotta be done and im glad im doing it now knowing im gona be finished soon!
Hard to pay attention to what you say with such a GREAT xmog, dude. I love it
Personally I just play the game in anyway I want to get AP, sometime we farm M+ dungeons with guildies (any dungeons .. except some cancerous one, depending on the affix), sometime we do rated PvP and sometime I do plenty of WQs alone. Obviously, I am not in a hardcore guild like you Asmon, so I am not pressured to farm AP and leggys to keep my spot in the raid, we only raid 2 days/week but we still managed to down 7/7M and 1/3M and I am currently sitting at ilvl 886 equipped with 44 traits !!
It seems to me that a simple way to improve the acquisition of artifact power would be to scrap the artifact knowledge system and apply the progressive increase in artifact power granted by that system to the traits such that each time you place a trait on your weapon, all artifact power gained is multiplied in the same way that artifact knowledge does now, stage by stage.
With the AP being rewarded at the end of M+ Dungeons, each dungeon should have a token value associated with it, determined by dungeon length and perceived difficulty. Weather you have this value modified by the AK or chest timer is a different story. Its all about setting a baseline that is the same across all dungeons, to equalize the effort vs reward.
watching asmongold's video is more entertaining than playing wow FeelsBadMan
They're allowing Artifact Knowledge catch ups for Order resources in 7.1.5 too, i totally agree it shouldnt be something to Wait a few days it should be something you can Farm just like the artifact power itself
Very intuitive video, those were things on my mind for a while. Nice clear, balanced and concise reasoning. I've been hearing twitch streamers complain about the AP system without the same level of reasoning as you have exhibited for their feelings/thoughts on the matter.
Thing is, if you've ground out 54 artifact power traits, the laws of probability say you shoulda had your fair share of luck with regard to rng.
The Idea as consistent progression goal is nice but in execution all you get is grind the same AP in a bleak exponential fashion (First one free, last one like dozens of hours with the highest Artifact Knowledge and most difficult dungeons) for an unsatisfying tiny number increase of strengths.
They could added a little bit extra at least such as a mini-talent, Artifact glow, Prestige style Portrait edit... anything really other than nothing.
Talking about procrastinating in a game that you play when you are procrastinating. 10/10
one of the strategies I used was replaced my 880 crap relic with a 855 bis relic that drops from dht. my goal was to get a 875+. the result was running about 85 dhts which in the process I got to lvl 49 on my doom hammer and a 875 relic. felt good and motivating. now I'm 51.5 shooting for 54 which doesn't feel as bad.
Higher level Mythic+ DOES give more AP. Doing at M+3 with 25 AK you get 65k tokens. Doing at M+10 you get 150k tokens.
If AP scaled with amounts of bosses in a dungeon, that would just make Vault of the Wardens the most efficient. I think they should scale AP with the max amount of time that you have to clear the instance without depleting it, and then balance it out from there. Currently that wouldnt be as balanced, but it would be a lot easier to scale that the correct way.
Giving it a cap per week like u said seems pretty simple to implement and effective, and if u can't meet the cap certain week cause of work, traveling, etc the cap adds into the next week's cap.
The major flaw with Artifact Power is when Blizzard does major changes to classes and specs. We had a few raiders that played Frost Mages for ages, the xpac launched and that spec was horrible so they had to switch. Dumping tons of work and AP into a spec they don't enjoy. Then it was "fixed". Now they are screwed. They can't go back to Frost without re-grinding that AP. I fear the same will happen to others when 7.1.5 hits. They have spent months playing a spec only to have tweaked and not fitting with raid makeup or play style or just sucks because it was nerfed into the ground. I believe Blizz should refund all AP when they do major changes like this upcoming patch like days of yore when they would refund talent points once for free.
Thoughts?
I wish I knew how to play my warrior like that. As I've gotten older, I've gotten worse at playing.
The AP and AR system made think about how good we had it in previous expansions, i miss the days where i dont have to redo instance just for the sake of rolling on a better version of the same gear, and on top of that you also have to do it for AP over and over again ...... I started late this x-pack and burned out early trying to catch up since the gap between having and not having is massive, the system is quite nice if you played since the start of the X-pack though.
As it stands now I believe the M+ is more attractive to a lot of people than raiding. My guild began with 18 raiders at the start of the expac, when we made our LAST attempt to raid EN at 4/7H we had 8. People were doing M+ instead of raiding. This makes sense when you realize that most people hang out in real life with groups of 5 or less, not 20. The reward structure for M+ is also very attractive as each one is much quicker than a raid. Easier for working people to schedule in than a three hour raid. "So screw raiding I will just do M+ and my gear level will be just fine."
When you get full ap, can you put more ap into that wep? Or is it just full and you can't even use the ap items? Should I keep ap items in my bank until they add more traits? Imagine that day, some people will have all new traits day 1.
I understand your point of view, but from my point of view, the AP bonus seems decent. The alternative was the timed release of bosses (like ICC, etc) which left hardcore players without content while they waited. The AP grind gives hardcore players the ability to play the game as much as they want, and still make progress, while allowing casual players to still almost stay relevant, and not constantly be way behind.
I'm tired of the WoW formula of get to max level -> Do dungeons/raids -> wait for content patch.
Before anyone hangs me: I *have* done a shit ton of achievements and had tons of fun doing them, too. I've soloed most old content on my warlock which also was fun, considering how I had to adapt to each situation, and I loved the Brawler's guild.
Farming AP all day every day isn't a better system. It's just a thing to make people who spent a lot of time with the game stronger, and people who get back into it weaker a bit and requires shittons of farming like a mad man.
On top of that, *nothing else changed*. You still get from 100 to 110 in Legion, do dungeons & raids and that's it. World quests were a cool idea, but once you figured out they're just world quests with RNG items you kinda lose interest and only do the ones that award big AP or high ilvl gear.
Then there's the mythic+ dungeon system, AKA how often can you do a dungeon with almost nothing changing? I'd rather play PoE if nothing but 2 little mechanics happen to the place. New layouts, randomly flung in bosses etc. would help a great deal, but that'd mean abandoning the 3-5 bosses per dungeon-> done formula Blizz has become efficient at, so it'd probably take a good bit of time to get sth like that rolling (except they did the latter in Raids so it wouldn't be too difficult but oh well.) - Add on to that not a whole host of cool raids, as EN was...Pretty ok and that's it, and you have a bored playerbase.
I left Legion after 3 months of play and have not entered Karazhan. It looks awesome. Good enough to sub into the game again? Not at all. But good on Blizz to atleast churn out *some* content.
I guess it all boils down to how long you've played Wow yet. At some point you'll grow sick of the game, just because of how much you played it.
I'm sure I'll come back, eventually. They all do. But for now, legion lost me atleast.
Very good point. I quit as well because I felt burned out and realized how shallow the game is. Im not saying the game is bad but came to a realization that instead of playing the game the game was playing me :( too much grind
The ap system is the reason why i still am playing. I love logging on and having something useful to do, besides playing alt Nr. 42. Although at one time, about the beginning of november till the end of christmas, i did nothing but logging on for raids 3 times a week. I had like 32 traits and noone wants a moonkin in m+.But i kept my artifakt knowledge up and spent some ap on healing weapon. Now im trait 40 in 2 weeks, while not playing alot. If you do Worldquests for 1-2h a day you will be easily above me, not doing any m+. Id rather have a way of falling behind, than logging on after 3 monts of break and having jackshit to do besides level alts.
Traits ARE NOT going to be increased later on. The new 7.2 traits take the points from the 20-point "paragon" trait.
I now like to imagine a personal WoW Trainer yelling at me saying, Heal! Two more Dungeons! Heal!
I like WoW but also I don't like that it feels like a grindy second job. I actually didn't mind the grindy aspect of it when I was a kid but now it's just tedious and time consuming.
I want the 54th trait but I'm currently bored asf with grinding so I haven't farmed for over week. I was getting to the point where I was going to quit wow because I have to grind so much.
I thought I was playing a Blizzard's game not a GrindingGearGames' (GGG) Game D:
World of Warcraft: Grinding should be the name of this patch, 7.2 they will release more grinding to do, which will kill even more players from the game and totally will kill casuals since everyone will have 54 traits, they will have 12 and even the pugs won't accept them anymore. Another population drop due to lack of ahead planning, again, WoD didn't teach them a lesson it seems...
Wow Switcher if you gave AK 25 it only takes you to do the suramar questchain to get 35 traits ;)
Problem is Blizzard wont realize this because they think the more grinding content release the more it will keep the players "busy" I quit exactly for this reason. The game doesnt offer anything after a while and you start to wonder if youre even playing the game rather than working like a lab rat. Really sad how blizzard is just lazy to make new content, they rather make repeatable dungeons...
"I thought I was playing a Blizzard's game not a GrindingGearGames' (GGG) Game D:"
lol, WoW and most MMOs have always been about grinding. Dungeons, raids, Dungeons, raids fight bosses over and over again just to get more gear and then go do higher level dungeons/raids.
As for the Motivational part your right, sometimes I have a issue doing World Quest the only time I do world quest is to ether find upgraded gear rewards after the new update I have at least try to do the World Quest.
love this system, hope every expac is similar to this.
Also it doesn't have to be a grind as long as you aren't a super competitive mythic raider, some people that are complaining about the grind didn't even do mythic NH.
Well done homie! Also well put speech
more grind for you in 7.1.5 look forward to it!
Another point is, this is the first expansion that I have to consider "how good is this spec in M+" when choosing to play
I quit the game pretty much because of Artifact Power, and to a lesser extent legendaries. Being out performed by people that I was at the same/slightly higher skill level, simply because they could play 18hrs a day and I can't, just made me say "What's the point of even trying"
I also finished my 54 traits as recently as yesterday. I only did 391 dungeon in total. Most of the time I was not doing my world quest for AP. I rushed for AP twice, to get 35 traits and now to get 54. that's 2 weeks of farming outside of that I was doing no mythic+ at all. Now the biggest reward is that I am DONE with mythic+ I can just say FUCK that whenever someone asks me.
As a Casual who have not even unlocked my paragon lvl yet, I like AP. IT is nice to always get something from a dungeon, even though you did not get any gear.
"instead of going to the gym, youre going to the maw of souls" gets me every time!
Maybe artifact power should have a rested xp type system to help with catchup.
Hey Asmon
You talk about Maw of Souls being the best way to farm AP and whatnot, can we get guides on this sort of thing? Why is Maw of Souls the best? What is Maw of Souls? What's the best/most efficient way to do everything?
More guides, more information please.
You literally sit in a group, have people either link you keys to get carried through MoS because it is the shortest and most time-efficient dungeon in the game and make it for 2-3 boxes depending on the level of the key, and get rewarded AP for it. That's it.
If you're asking what Maw of Souls is, you're probably not at the point where you're farming AP or really doing any high level content.
Perhaps I went a bit far with that question, but my point was basically that he's completely maxed out his arms artifact, and there's no guide to be found about the most efficient way to do so.
FWIW, I just resubbed 3 weeks ago and I'm 860 with 24 traits in DPS and 18 in Tank. I really just want to know how best to do things. It's kind of hard to find up to date information on how systems work and what changes have been made. Lots of the info out there is from alpha/beta and no longer relevant. I just want to learn from someone who's been actively playing.
Thinking about it now, it's probably best he waits until 7.1.5 drops before he makes any guides, since they may join the heap of irrelevant info out there in just a matter of days.
lol
Maw of Souls is a dungeon you can complete in 10 minutes even on a +9 difficulty keystone. Thus, it is an efficient way to farm AP and gear as you can create a carry group and find players who have MoS keystones that they want carried. I mean that's literally all there is to it. Nothing changes with patch 7.1.5 in terms of farming AP. Just because a new patch drops, it doesn't mean old ways of doing things change unless it is specified in patch notes, for example, if an extra boss or two were to be added to the Maw of Souls dungeon.
And if you really want to find out the most efficient way to do things, I'd suggest asking on the WoW forums, MMOchamp forums, asking geared people on your server, etc etc. Asking a popular youtuber on the comments section of his video will most likely not yield very good results.
I have the same feeling of completion, my 5 man mythic+ group finally finished +15 Keystone in time yesterday. And it felt amazing, and it still does feel really good. Im on EU and this week we just had to push it, since next weeks are going to be cancerous.... :D
there are also prestige ap gains for 1/2 lvlels but option also ends when u do all pvp area quest for the day
For me, the artifact wep was just the talent system for this x-pac and the 4th golden trait was dumb. But given that they added it, they should have held off on making it 20 paragon levels until at least Nighthold was out, so if raids were feeling a bit underpowered they could grind out the paragons and give themselves a raidwide 10% or so dmg buff. Too much too soon - geez when Blizz listens they really do go full hog :(
Good in any way! The more you play the more you get. The better you are the faster you get it without making it impossible for those who aren't in hardcore guilds. Absolutely great!
I've leveled 2 characters to 110 on the PTR, I've reached AK 25 on the "main" of those two, and if the experience has taught me anything, it was that spending $35 on a legion game-key and $13 on a month of subscription would be an absolute waste of my money and time.
Even free the game is hard to stomach, and unless 7.2 or 7.2.5 brings some OHR -> AK option and some boost to the AP tokens, I'll just skip this entire expansion - and I've been playing since vanilla.
I'm grinding for both ap and resources, I wipe out the map of wqs, run daily heroic, and constantly que mythic plus. I see my friends and guild members play almost 24/7 and they gear up so fast/do crazy damage. Sometimes I think they just don't sleep...
After I realized that the 2nd "paragon point" was only a 0.5% damage increase, I started playing ESO.
There are some solution which were mentioned.
i.e. Caps etc.
why not have M+ repeated dungeons have an AP decay?
100% > 75% > 50% each time you repeat a dungeon, like heroic how u have the daily then the repeated decayed version
Did 54 traits yesterday too. Was one of the best grinds ever. Get some friends, get a guild, spam mythic+ with good people and it's super fun.
Use it as a way to try to push Keystone Master.
i rather kms
A good way to do it is just get AP while pushing harder keystones, if you get a spot you do. You reap what you sow but there's no need to complain about endless grinding when it benefits you.
It's a great system
Log in for AK and roll keystones. Plus the legion app helps aheap also
This system grinds me out because I recently switched mains. Really I'm just doing some mythics because it's fun atm, AK2 AP isn't really significant when higher AK gives me that in just a worldquest. I think they could have amended this by just having the same AK progress for everyone, that would solve the problem with alts and would make switching mains less painful. We have other grinds to reroll, gear and legendaries mainly, so people wouldn't stop doing the content if that is a concern of blizzards.
I get that it feels good to be invested in a class via AK, but I feel that is already a thing with having gear and progress in for example Suramar and the Illidan questline.
What I like about Asmongold is that despite him being in the top %1 of a player base that usually shits on casuals and hates everything that caters to them, Asmongold doesn't do this.
He has a great empathy to the casual/new player and can always spot things that would be a problem even though these are not problems he is victim of.
Basically the AP grind and the feeling of being behind has made me stop raiding after playing the game at a high level since early TBC.
as of right now , asmongold has beat the game xD
I don't think he's done mythic Helya or the max level for mythic+ (which is endless), so no, he hasn't beat the game. But i do see your point, AP is important if you want to be competetive
he has done 15's and pretty sure M helya im sure, no need to be a buzz kill for a stupid joke , lol
i am THE party killer, that's just how it is
He has beat the game since MoP tbh, dude has almost all the mounts in the game, 20k+ achiev points, his main focus is pve and he still has good pvp experience, ( above average). So yeah imo he has beat the game.
Lud Čovek 20k is not average, lol, 10k - 15k is average. And that's why I said 20k PLUS.
What worries me as GM of one of the best 2 day raiding guilds, is that more of my players dont have the time to farm all day to get 54. Now some people do already have it and they are mad at those who dont. The other issue is that the DPS check was so tight on guarm mythic when we were progressing that we pretty much needed a bunch of people with the 35th trait to be safe.
I worry that people who dont have 54 will hold us back in Nighthold mythic because I will literally have to replace them for worse players with higher paragon levels. It also sucks for recruiting since if someone applies and they are 20 traits behind half the guild its unfair on the rest who have put the effort in - either that or I would have to ask them "do you intend on grinding out 20 traits in your next few resets?" and its just not what anyone really wants to be doing ESPECIALLY if they are playing a shitty dps class that no one wants to take in a boost group.
I like the increasing AP from pvp idea and especially RBGS. It would even be cool if you got more AP from doing it as a guild group to encourage people to play a whole guild. I also would like higher rating in arena and rbgs to give more AP so that people actually want to get better.
My husband has the highest number of points in his weapon of anyone in our two raid team progression guild that includes quite a few disabled players, and stay at home wives with nothing better to do but play wow. His frost weapon is at 47 points after switching from unholy 33 points in on that one. he plays 1-2h a day outside of raid days and works 11 hours a day at a normal job. He doesnt farm AP in m+ during those few hours each day instead focusing on enjoying the game. how you choose to boost your weapon and enjoy the game is entirely up to you, and farming m+ isnt the end all of grinding AP.
The other problem that you didnt mention is that if Arms warrior become really bad, you have to switch to fury and do the grind all over again. They should make AP shared on all your spec its really akward and not fun to refarm for all your specs.
Grats on 54 man! I've been procrastinating quite a bit with my AP.. After seeing this I might just grind some AP lol
I have up on WoW in this expansion, I stayed sorta in WoD but in this expansion I leveled my pallys artifact then stopped playing for a week decided to come back and play a monk and realized I had to get all my power again and I just felt nauseous.
I liked it well enough, and now that we have the catch mechanic coming in 7.1.5, my biggest issue with it is being resolved. I agree that the amount of AP reward is quite low for many things, leading to the MoS issue. Tl;dr: the reward amount need some balancing but overall, I thought it was fine.
Im at rank 46, artifact knowledge maxed out. Doesnt feel like farming maw/cos for days, especially that im working now, still do mythic+ at least 3 nights/week, only with guildies, whatever keystones we have. Not a mythic guild only hc(missing ppl to go mythic), and i have the highest weapon in the guild. I feel im progressing with my weapon fast enough, and i dont want to farm dungeons with random ppl. I enjoy the game like this. Doesnt feel annoying or too grindy, i enjoy doing mythic+ with my friends from the guild.
Gz to you Asmongold :) WTG
"instead of going to the gym, you go to Maw of Souls" you nailed that. The system in legion damaging the brain of human :)
Pretty sure you nailed the plus and minus of AP and AK.
This expansion made me think a lot about how I am spending time. I was trying to do all the content, everything there is to give me AP, but in the end of I wasn't feeling happy, it wasn't fun. When people cried out for there being a lack of content, they didn't want the most grindy expansion ever. And now since I have been playing a lot less in the past month, I am seeing back peddling, ambi-turning players, whose class is so pruned that they only need to hit 3 buttons, but still do more dmg than me, because they have over 15 traits more than me. It's not about skill anymore, everyone can play the game atm and be good at it, there is no self improvement and that makes the game dumb and boring. It's all about that AP, titanforging and legendary farm. Thanks blizzard for making me quit after 10 years of good memories.
It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the AP grind was worth it, but you really know the truth and just can't admit it. Good job and congrats. Now give it some time and really let it sink in.
Grinding AP is still the only thing I've done after hitting 54 in Vengeance. Currently 42 in Havoc
You have some good insight into the minds of players. Game stress did me in and I love the game. I really enjoy your videos, thank you.
i literally cannot be bothered to go past 35 traits. I am hopeful they will expand the current system to include more meaningful choices than the existing 36-54 grind.
I went away to see family for 10 days over Christmas, came back and someone who was on the same trait level as me had got 12 traits in 10 days. Kinda bulkshit
Even if HoV would give more AP there'd still be nobody who'd want to do it. They'd just do Arcway in 12 minutes, have a chance on a high titanforged set item/chrono shard AND avoid having to deal with those annoying stun circle mobs in HoV.
There's always going to be that one dungeon nobody wants to do. I have literally seen boost groups for everything except for HoV.