How to Play Tales from Elsewhere! | Example of Combat
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- #ttrpg #dnd #gamedev
Today we walk through one Player Turn within Tales from Elsewhere, showing off the deadly, tactical combat. It's also an excuse for Peter to get out his model trains and miniatures!
Written and presented by Peter Lange
Logo, graphic design, and animated characters provided by Maribel Navarro
Artwork provided by @dr.nerii and @brayzart
Music by @RyanikeAudio
Edited by @TimothyWeinell
Background music: FineTune Music, asset ID #452583978
I like how play feels very intuitive and that survivors can interact on the same turn rather than waiting for their number to come up! It looks like it creates more synergy and engaged play amongst the participants! 😮
Thanks so much! Yeah, it really helps keep players engaged, as they are active through the whole player turn and reactive during the Threat's turn!
I really dig the 2 reaction/round mechanic. It looks like it make combat so much more dynamic and engaging for everyone at the table.
Eyyy, thanks Carnivorze!
We've definitely found that the players are more engaged during combat, as they're coordinating with each other during the Player Turn and then reacting a lot during the Threat Turn.
There's no "waiting 10 minutes for my turn to come back around" in TFE :D
How does that discussion affect the length of a player turn? I imagine that as the PCs increase their repertoire of available actions they could spend considerable time discussing the best strategy. What has the play testing shown?
@@dicesectiongamedesigns8594 Another great question!
At first, the new players struggled a bit with the shared turn concept. They were thinking traditionally - first I go, then you go, then they go, etc.
After a session or two, it started to "click". Instead of thinking about what I'm going to do on my turn, the players started thinking about what they needed to accomplish as a group.
That sort of transition from "Okay, which feature do I activate now" to "How can we save that NPC from the monster?" resulted in some very natural collaboration.
So the start of the turn tends to have more discussion and planning, but the rest of the turn runs very smoothly. It keeps all the players at the table engaged throughout that shared turn, rather than sitting and waiting for your turn to come up in initiative order.
So overall, it's been a positive response from playtesters! It's now a style for everyone though, which is totally understandable. But I think it nets out to maybe slightly less time in discussion and review, 'cuz everyone is very present during that planning step, rather than needing a refresher when their turn comes around.
@@dicesectiongamedesigns8594 Oh looks like the comment came through twice. I responded to the other one.
Just wanted to say "Thank you!" for all the very thoughtful, well-reasoned responses. That sort of constructive criticism and questions are super helpful as we refine and finalize aspects of the system!
This short example got me hooked on the tactical aspect from the start! The first videos I saw showed me a narrative focus system, and it trully surpised me to see the tactical face of it.
One thing, though: If you follow the theme/fiction of the setting, I do feel that "fan the hammer" should be a full turn choice, not an option you could take after a well aimed shot.
The fact that you add modfiers to the rolls also adds to the fun. I love Savage Worlds, but character's bonus are not as fixed as this system.
Thanks for the feedback!
Fan the Hammer is in a weird spot, I agree. It's had a few iterations over the years, some way overpowered, some a bit awkward thematically.
There's a different Edge called Gunslinger's Stance, that better captures the classic western showdown fanning of the hammer. It may be that these two Edges are just overlapping and one needs to be removed/tweaked.
There are 130 Edges in total, and we'll definitely need the help of the community to get them all ironed out! :D
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames 130 edges?! How long have you been working on this game?!
@@GreekSoloRPG Far, far too long haha.
The recent push to actually complete it started about 3 years ago. It's already gone through a ton of playtests, campaigns, and demos!
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Nice. As you explained, it does sound to me it is an """issue""" (and not enough quotation marks here to stress that it is not a real problem) is the name.
Congrats for the great work!
@@conceptarthur Totally agreed, and thanks again!
Really well done for fitting so many mechanics into one turn. And good choice in the order that you presented them in. An attack without injury, followed by an attack that focused on injuries, then ranged, etc. By the time the holy water was thrown I felt that I understood how ranged attacks work. Really well explained. I will remember this video the next time I explain the rules of a game.
Character’s turn felt odd though. Yun either had an open bottle of whiskey in hand or she should take an action to equip it (like the holy water), then it is assumed open, then she drinks 3 doses of it whilst under the duress of being on melee combat, the effects of which are instant. Then instantly transformed (no transformation process or even an action) then does her frighten thing. It feels like she took 6 actions. Some of which should have had a duration before she benefited from them. My understanding was that the players should feel in dire peril according to the design, but that feels like a superhero. I would have expected alcohol (unless hand waved as magical potion alcohol) would be something you drink pre- or post-encounter, making the stakes of combat grittier. And that a transformation as taking your whole turn to cause you to choose between long term and short benefits.
Don’t take it as a criticism. I’m excited about your project. I just want to make sure I understand.
The dice mechanics sound really solid and LOVE the injury system so far. Loved that first interaction with the first two PCs.
Thanks for the detailed feedback and thoughts!
There were a lot of sub-systems and features that we glossed over in the video for brevity's sake.
Yun had the flask equipped, which means it's on her person and easily accessible. Any item that is equipped (like a holstered firearm, a flask in your pocket, or a rifle slung over your back) can be accessed without using an Action.
Hezekiah had his holy water in his backpack (a big storage container), so had to use an Action to open his backpack and retrieve it. We didn't really go over encumbrance and storage in the video, so it makes sense that it wouldn't "add up".
Monstrous Transformation has had a few iterations - some of them require an Action to activate, some have been "free" to turn on, some Strain the user to activate, some don't. Many of these features are still under development/iteration :)
I feel you about how superheroic this fight felt. Bandits are kinda pushovers! I'm working on a script for another example of play with the Threats Turn, and something a bit more deadly/dangerous in its presentation.
Again, thanks for the detailed feedback!
this looks so slick. i absolutely love how attacking, and injury levels work. might not even need to make my own system with how this is looking.
i'm just doing a hack of EZD6, but it's kind of getting out of hand and not even looking like the original system anymore, lol
Haha I feel you on that! Tales from Elsewhere started as a Cyberpunk 2020 hack, and eventually spun off into its own thing, unrecognizable from its original idea!
Clockworld is such a great setting and the video you have here is really well done. I love that you used minis for this, that has strengthened the examples here.
I think we are on the same wavelength with the action/reaction concept. At first I was questioning the 2 action/2 reaction as being possibly too much but after watching this a couple times I think it works well. I like the synergy the 2 actions creates, especially how movement is incorporated and the "all-in" combo. This does get a little crunchy with hit locations and different kinds of defenses but I think with some plays it would become more fluid. You made the right choice moving away from HP model, I think that it makes your combat quicker and more deadly. Nice work!
@@gnomebotstudios Thanks buddy!!
Yeah, we experimented with different action/reaction numbers, and finally settled on the current amount. It's working well for what we have here, which is crunchy but fluid 🤠
Very cool, brother!!
Thanks!
Looks amazing! Love the two-action, simultaneous turns and the two-reaction mechanics to bolster defensives sounds like a great way to keep everyone always engaged. "High roll" and "row roll" instead of "advantage" and "disadvantage" are fun terms, especially for the setting.
I found it a little hard to grasp that ranks translate into bonuses, difficulty numbers AND injury dice, but after going back and looking over the table for a bit, I think I figured it out and now have it memorized.
I also love how the Frightened condition incentivizes cowardice by granting luck but still gives you the option to do other things (albeit at penalty). I like 5e, but Frightened can be such an unfun shutdown sometimes.
The term "afflict" for attacks that that inflict status effects is neat.
Slick stuff all around! I've never been interested in Wild West settings, but this combat system sounds super fun.
Really appreciate it!!
Regarding Frightened, this is actually a common structure we've used for conditions that would normally take away player agency in other games. Things like being Frightened, Sick, Agonized - all of these let you gain Luck (a reroll token) if you "waste" your turn roleplaying that condition, rather than fighting.
So if you're Sick, you could lean over and puke to gain (+1) Luck, or if you're Agonized you could writhe on the ground and scream in pain. All of this adds to the immersion of the scene, and rewards the players for engaging in it. But it's an OPT-IN rule, so a player doesn't need to do so if they'd rather fight back (while low rolling)
Very cool! It seems really dynamic when one risky attack can take out a foe in a single hit. Every turn can have a really big impact on the outcome of the battle.
It looks like a turn might take a bit longer than in some other games since there's more rolls, actions and reactions going on. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though, especially if with the above being true. Then combat might feel quicker and snappier as a whole.
An astute observation! One full "turn" (all the players) is more intricate and involved than some other games, simply because of all the interaction points and fluidity.
But like you identified, the overall combat resolves VERY quickly, as characters are getting perforated, dismembered, and taken down with only a few actions. Each turn feels like real progress occurs, which makes the combat feel more engaging overall.
We've found, in the playtests, that yes the resolution per turn takes longer than say D&D 5e, but you have significantly fewer "dead turns", where you've simply exchanged HP damage but the status or momentum of the fight hasn't changed.
Intriguing. Of course it reminds me a bit of Deadlands. Years ago we home brewed a "wound pyramid" for that (Savage Worlds) system. By coincidence Boylei Hobby Time is launching a Weird West rpg Kickstarter at the same time. He has been making dioramas of his Wild Imaginary West for years.
@@trikepilot101 Deadlands is a big inspiration for me!
And yeah, I follow Boylei's channel, his weird west setting is super cool! We're going for something more on the horror side.
I love how much weird west is coming into the spotlight!
I have been waiting for this video. It did not disappoint.
@@mkklassicmk3895 Thanks! I want to make more of these, showing off different aspects of gameplay. Any excuse to get out minis and models and spend an afternoon at the park!
the battle rolls could be just a SINGLE ROLL for all of it. And all the "circunstances" being calculated could built in the roll (in number of dice and level of dice)
My sugestion: the skills and circunstantes (weapons, distance and such) just inform HOW MANY dice people will roll and their SEVERITY (meaning d4, d6, d8 and such).
Exemple:
* base dificulty of any melee atack is 2 d10. (2d10)
*now lets calculate HOW MANY DICE:
- attacker has +3 melee proeficiency, defender has +1. +3-1 = +2. The roll is 4d10 now, 2d10 from base and 2 from the proficiency shift
*now lets calculate UPGRADES FOR THE DICE:
1 - attacker has a simple weapon (mace). one upgrade
2 - defender has the high ground. one downgrade
3 - attacker is under fire from other enemies. level 2 downgrade
-> aply the upgrades and down grades to diferent dice when possible
- of the 4d10 base roll
- the first dice is upgraded and become a d8
- the second dice is downgraded and become a d12
-the third dice is dowgraded twice and become a d20
- the fourth dice is kept at d10
THE SINGLE RESULTING ROLL FOR THE WHOLE TURN: 1d8, 1d12, 1d20 and 1d10.
- results: 8, 11, 4, 1
- only the "1" resulted in anything. a Critical injury.
The "dice roll" building may seen complex, but its only one roll AND the player can already build it in his mind while awaits for his turn
Adcional sugestion: rolls that miss the damage dealing 1,2,3 but get close like 4,5 could work as "create and advantage in genesys rpg. if in your roll you get a dice result of 4 you could get a free upgrade for the next roll (narratively meaning you got the enemy to lose balance or something)
Thanks for the detailed feedback! Much to ruminate on in there, I'll digest it for a while :)
The tactical and cinematic feel is 😘👌 great example of the benefits of teamwork.
Is there a playtest packet available?
Thanks so much! We're working on getting the demo packet available, should be just another week or two.
It'll have condensed quick start rules, pregen characters, and a one-shot adventure!
@TalesFromElsewhereGames Amazing! I'm eagerly following along 😀
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Nice!
Ahhhh, now it make sense. Very informative 👍🏻
@@matthewwinans3068 Haha thanks! Seeing it in action really helps clear things up. Next step needs to be letting y'all actually play it!
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Yes, please!
I really like the system, its different, which this day and age isn't easy to be. It also seems pretty fast though damage being the lowest of the dice and acting being the highest dice could take a little bit of getting used to, and I would maybe keep them the same. I like the use of hit locations and was wondering if you had any plans to add effects to damaging different areas like stunned or dazed for minor head damage, reduced movement for legs. Also what part does armour play in the damage? Look forward to seeing the finished game.
Thanks for the feedback! We didn't really go into all the Injury Complications in this video, but we absolutely have that sorta stuff.
Injuring a leg Slows the character, and so forth. Lots of opportunities for improvisational complications to injuries, too. His head got bonked? Add the Staggered complication to the Injury! Took at tumble from a cactus patch? Let's add Agonized, etc. :)
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Ok great, good to hear.
The low numbers are rad because the bigger the dice, the lower the chance... but the target is always the same. It's ALWAYS 1 for critical, 2 and 3 for severe. It makes rolling a d4 feel _gnarly_.
Looks cool! But also a lot of rolling on both sides to resolve actions. Doesn't that slow down the game?
A great question. All the rolling makes the resolution of some actions take additional steps, but the mathematics are so simple and the numbers so small that it actually goes pretty fast.
The real added benefit is that all the players are engaged throughout the whole Player Turn as well as the Threat Turn, as the players get to react and use abilities at every step. The result is increased player engagement, as folks are sittin' and waitin' for 5-10 minutes for their turn to come back around.
Lastly, there are many Threats in the game that don't React at all; things like Zombies or oozes or many Beasts.
Again, great question! It's definitely a different style of game, where there's more involvement throughout the round. It has its benefits and drawbacks!
Cool, now say a chap might have a mind to go, how you say, goblin mode, fully blown murderhobo, say, and eventually have their crimewave draw the ire of the authorities, and be hunted down like a dog, are there rules for mounted combat, you know, in case a gentleman takes a notion?
Should an unwholesome gentleman such as you describe need a quadrupedal means of conveyance, there are indeed a variety of 4-legged friends ready to ride.
The mounted combat rules are pretty rules-lite, rather than making them into their own sub-system. But yep, there are multiple horse types (from draft to saddle) as well as donkeys and oxen, carts and wagons!
There's even a unique Artifact that's the black horseshoe of the devil, let's you summon his jet-black steed!
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames I rather crawl from sea to shining sea then spend a heartbeat in the "quare fella's" pocket.
@@jaykaye594 Love it.
This is an aside, but something I've found in the demos and playtests of the game is that folks can't help but start doing western/cowboy/southern drawls. Even players that normally don't do accents/voices for their characters start to fall into the trope, and I love it!
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames in that case, Happy talk like a pirate day to you and all who celebrate it. Yarrr.
Nice.
I find the names a bit confusing.
I get the desire to be original
But i don't think names are copyrighted?
So if you're using a known mechanic like advantage or Disadvantage, maybe just call it that?
Same with vigor and grit - also not intuitive.
What is an afflicte? Same.
Other than that - seems cool.
Appreciate the feedback! I felt that calling things "low roll" and "high roll" is actually more accurate and also sounds more "wild west"!
Attacking is using weapons to cause injury to someone.
Afflicting is how you inflict status effects, like frightened, shoving them, distracting them, etc.
@TalesFromElsewhereGames
;) I get it.
The thing I'd worry most about with this type of system is complexity.
So any chance to simplify/make things clearer ...
Anyways, if you'd ever want playtesters... I'd be happy to toss my hat in.
Following - and Good Luck!
@@avsabari1263 I get you - and thanks!
The combat system is really fun! Great video.
Thanks! Excellent editing, as always!
Great video anyways. Thank you for what you're making. I look forward to seeing how it develops
Appreciate you! Thanks for attending the premiere, I may try to do premieres for future videos as a way to chat with the community on the subject of the video!
This is an awesome system! I love how much can happen in one turn and how a character can use strain as a bit of cost to give them an advantage or boost for a limited time. Pretty intuitive too! I was skeptical that it could be as crunchy and dynamic as it is and still intuitive, but you really did an incredible job!
I know you say in your videos you're lead designer, do you have other designers helping you with building this system or is this more a one man show with a group of play testers as a sort of advising role?
Regardless of how, incredible design and work.
Thanks so much for your comment! I'm glad seeing the game in action could demonstrate how the system can feel very tactical and dynamic. It's sometimes hard to get that across in an explainer video!
I'm the creator and the guy who writes 90% of the content for the game. I'm working with one other designer, a video editor for UA-cam, a handful of artists (paid), and a small group of dedicated playtesters. So it's mostly me, but with a village behind me, and I couldn't have done it without them!
Great video.
Much appreciated!
QQ: Do you have to use your reaction to attempt to defend? And if you don't (or can't), the hit is successful?
Great question.
If you can't React, then the attacker still needs to try to hit the difficulty based on how far away they are from you and where they're targeting, so there's still a miss chance.
However, it's not very hard to hit something close to you! There is definitely an emphasis on Reactions; being able to dive for cover, dodge out of the way, and so forth. It's a limited resource, though (with 2 reactions), and this is done on purpose - it's meant to make no one able to easily fend off multiple attackers. Players need to work together when outnumbered!
(There are features and abilities that you can take that help fend off more attackers, if someone wants to specialize in it)
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Very nice 👍🏻
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames that makes a ton of sense, having limited ability to actively defend yourself from multiple attackers. Nice!
@@emerynoel567 Thanks!
Yeah, it was a dramatic shift away from a classic "Armor Class" structure, where your ability to "dodge" is partially built-in.
I always thought it was weird that a door or wall has an "Armor Class" in D&D! It's a wall! How do I miss it! Haha
Wild west apocalypse, a man after my own heart. Great stuff, man.
@@OneFootWall There are dozens of us in the world, DOZENS!
Okay.
The playthrough is helping this make sense.
However, is it a TTRPG you are developing? Or a minis-on-the-table skirmish game?
Don't worry.
Went back through some of your other videos and they answered my question.
@@peterdickinson4599 Haha yeah, thanks!
It is a TTRPG, though this example is just some pure combat. Was a great excuse to get out all my minis and trains!
Can I buy the pdf yet?
We're workin' hard to finish the demo pack! It'll have quick start rules, pregen characters, and a one-shot adventure! Hoping to release in the next few weeks!
Thanks so much for your interest!
Wow! 😅 this is so cool
Thanks so much! 🤠
Wow, I love the shared turn (it allows for real team play and team work) and 2 actions and 2 reactions thing as well feels like the perfect way of giving players agency but not too much
I'm excited about seeing the threats turn
This is clearly making me become more interested in crunchier than I am used to but I'm loving it!
Is there any plans on solo play?
@@juauke Thanks!!! Y'know, I had considered making solo play possible, mainly because I don't have experience designing for that space. But it could be something we release a small zine/expansion for down the line! Definitely worth considering.
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames you're welcome!
No problem but yeah it could be ideas for the future! Nevertheless, I'll try to use it when it comes out and mix it with some parts of Frontier Scum