Next Time Someone Says, "God Allows Genocide, Rape & Slavery"... Say THIS!!
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- Next Time Someone Says, "God Allows Genocide, Rape & Slavery"... Say THIS!!
Did God commad Genocide? ⬇
www.questioningchristianity.c...
What does the Bible say about rape?
www.gotquestions.org/Bible-ra...
Does the Bible condone slavery?
www.gotquestions.org/Bible-sl...
Did God command Genocide? ⬇
www.questioningchristianity.com/resources/did-god-command-genocide
What does the Bible say about rape?
www.gotquestions.org/Bible-rape.html
Does the Bible condone slavery?
www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html
Hey brother, there’s a typo in your comment. It says “Did God *comment* Genocide?”.
On a side note I just wanted to ask you exactly what platform did you move that recent video you did before this one to? This kind of ordeal does not surprise me because unfortunately for the past several years now the tech tyrants in charge of the UA-cam guidelines have been censoring any criticism of the particular narrative that you brought up.
It’s nowhere yet.
I hear what you say, and you not wrong; but you do misunderstand atheism. Why don't you speak to an actual atheist as opposed to someone who thinks they're atheist, or claims to be one. I'm Christian myself, but I do come from an atheist background and your arguments, whilst making sense to the believer, don't hold water to an atheist. Your one big mistake is not putting yourself in their shoes and seeing things from their perspective; you assume they have the same mindset as you. Not a criticism, but just an observation. For one thing, there's no such thing as an "atheist worldview", that is a misleading statement perpetrated by dishonest apologists.
@@lionoffireraw So what happened? Was it taken down by the UA-cam administrators?
Keep pushing young man. I know you don't feel well but get rest. Thank you for the advice!
Excellent point.... I think so many people who don't want to open their heart to Jesus Christ don't realize that they already have somewhat of a world view of a Christian.
Yes, in the West (which is most of Christendom) everyone is Christianised whether they like it or not. We cannot rid Christianity from our psyche any more than we can rid our bloodline from our body. We have grown up in a Christianised society and we are Christianised whether we resist it or accept it, hate it or love it, it is within us, never to be removed.
I had one exceptional case - just one - where a militant atheist was offloading on me, blaming God for allowing awful things. I usually do alright in an argument like that, but this time I felt a strong impression from the Lord: 'Don't answer him anything. Tell him he needs to bring his questions to Me, and I will talk with him." It was hard when the battery of objections kept coming, and turned to taunting, for me to remain silent still - except to point him to the Lord once again. But the truth is. some people who are that militant really are much closer to finding the Lord than we may think. This way, they can talk about Him while putting someone else on the defensive. (But you're still talking with them about God, right?) They're militant because, to their mind, this helps them strike a counter-balance to the heavenly pull they are feeling. With this guy, it must have been time to meet Jesus, so hopefully that's what followed soon afterward. But I know it made an impression on him.
Thoughts similar to those were a struggle of mine because of a traumatic childhood. I was very resentful toward my abusive parents and then turned that toward God 😭 and asked why would he allow a child to suffer. The truth is I had extremely limited understanding of God (basically all I knew is that He existed). I developed all these ideas of what he “should” be and do. This continued for decades, but I’m so thankful for his patience and love - that he saved me just a few years ago… I heard the gospel and believed on Jesus alone for salvation! 🙏 Then in reading the word and listening to preaching, I found out over time how VERY mistaken I had been & that what I’d done was actually idolatry! Making up my own god that wasn’t God at all!!!
Your story could be my story. May God bless and prosper you in all ways, and keep you safe.
It's a question which deserves your discerning if it could be a genuine question and not a scoffing.
Any argument that attacks the morality of God I won't even listen to. I don't question the morality, wisdom, and decisions of a being that knows everything about everyone that ever has and ever will exist, knows all their thoughts, knows all surrounding circumstances, everything I know, and everything I don't know. God is the ONLY one capable of making a truly objectively wise and just decision.
My answer is that people want to blame someone else . We are given free will to choose. Unfortunately, we are affected by the choices of others. People want to blame God. Satan decieved Adam and Eve into sinning, and they brought sin into the world. But somehow, God gets the blame. The results of sin and righteousness have a course to run. They both have a final payoff ,a maturation. The man of sin has to be revealed and Jesus has to come as Fully revealed God. Rev19:11-21. This has to happen to fulfill scripture.
Exactly God doesn’t want any of that
I sincerely hope not.....
I always get " Why did God allow the Japanese Tusami? "
Deadly weather is a result of the cursed earth.
Japan has had tsunamis for so long, they named it.
@@cygnusustus
Huh.
I had an answer in here yesterday for him, but it's invisible to me.
Anyway, deadly weather, like every other deadly thing, is a result of the fall of man and the curse God laid upon creation.
Saying _the_ Japanese tsunami is disingenuous.
Japan has such a rich history in tsunamis, their name for the event is used even in our language.
@@cygnusustus
Since you haven't read the Bible, I will explain the fall of man and its impact on the universe.
God's creation at first had no sin or death, like it will be after creation is complete.
It had creatures who had the capacity to sin, like it will have after creation is complete.
Mankind, the image and likeness of God, has an immensely important role in creation, part of which is to steward it and to attend to its needs.
We have authority.
When man first sinned, death entered the world.
God cursed the earth and made work into _hard_ work.
Men will die of old age, disease, or other things.
If the earth had never been cursed and death had never entered, then there would be no deadly things. Those two concepts are inextricably tied together.
As for tsunamis, they are generally if not always caused by earthquakes at sea. I thought that was common knowledge, but there's your explanation for them.
@@cygnusustus
I've already proven my point, and proven you have no understanding of the Scriptures.
If you _have_ read the Bible, and not merely googled "mean things to disprove God," then you already know everything I've said is undeniably true and accurate.
If you have not indeed read it, then that explains your utter lack of theological accumen.
Hi Matt
Unfortunately some people don’t read or want to understand what the Bible represents. And most people don’t want to discuss situations rationally, and are not open to anything except their own opinions, especially with atheist, whose only purpose is to continuously put down the Lord., and are unable to scientifically prove that God does not exist. Thank you atheist’s for putting God‘s name out there.
Great message as usual.
Always Looking forward to your next message. 🙏❤️
That statement that people keep saying actually so irritating to our mind.
God's grace to set us, in Jesus name.
Brilliant advise, thank you for sharing.
Excellent, intelligent advice!! Thank you so much! God bless you & heal you🙏💜🙏
Thank you, Matthew!
Good point, never thought of handling it that way before. Thanks!
That is a really good point! 👍
God does not control man, not individually or collectively. We each have a conscience, a voice of God within ourself, which by our own freewill we can comply with or disobey. And by our own freewill comes all our troubles.
Did they take down your COVID vid?
Those same people don't believe in God...or so they say.
There is no such thing as an atheist, it’s unbiblical. If they truly believe that God does not exist, why ask all these questions. They know He exists, they simply have a hard heart.
Sorry, I'm an atheist. I'm sure that the Christian god doesn't exist.
WOW! MY GOD WOULD NOT SAY THESE THINGS! AMEN! AMEN!🤗🤗❤️❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻💖💕
I agree, Matt. Those sort of questioners use the aggressive approach toward a Christian to prove their ungodly self righteousness. We already understand that the bible is a closed book to the unbelievers. 📖✝️💟
I would not recommend this Frank Turek type response as it informs the interlocutor that you dont understand the concept of an internal critique.
From the PhilPapers surveys, the majority of academic philosophers are atheists and a majority of academic philosophers believe in objective morality. How should a Christian respond if the atheist also believes in objective morality?
No, that person would be making the assumption that I don’t understand the concept of internal critique. I simply would not allow them off the hook so easily in asking that question. As I said, I would provide the answer after I have pointed out their contradiction!
If they believe in objective morality…I would demonstrate that objective morality cannot exist without an objective moral lawgiver. That’s fairly straightforward. The atheist would be contradicting, their own worldview. If these are the most academic atheists that there are, then they have bigger problems than I thought!!
By not addressing the internal critique, your first paragraph is still a deflection. How would you demonstrate that objective morality must have an objective lawgiver when you still don't understand the Euthyphro dilemma?
As a hypothetical, a moral law giver is required, that's deism. You still need to demonstrate a personal supreme being, and then the supreme being is the Abrahamic God of the Bible.
I addressed at the very beginning that I would get to the point raised, if having a conversation with someone. But I’m under no obligation to do that before I point out the contradiction in asking the question, based on their worldview.
Of course. The existence of God, and who that God is, are two different questions, with two different sets of evidence. Both are easily demonstrated. I recommend the channel “Testify” for more. I’ll leave it there.
You didn't address it. Instead, you deflected. What I'm trying to help you understand is very important when discussing these philosophical and metaphysical topics with an unbeliever. Showing an internal contradiction in their worldview doesn't validate the Christian worldview. The Christian worldview must resolve its own internal critiques.
I have watched some of his videos. He isn't a New Testament scholar, doesn't have a formal education in Middle Eastern, Assyrian, or Babylonian history or culture nor is he fluent in Ancient Greek or Ancient Hebrew. His "evidence" for a Christian God is severely lacking. You are better off recommending Gary Habermas with the minimal facts argument, but he eventually runs into the same problems as others apologists.
Why would an unbeliever listen to Testify rather than the papers from academic philosophers like Graham Oppy or Alex Malpass? Why would an unbeliever listen to Testify instead of the literature from biblical scholars such as Dan McClellan, Kipp Davis, Francesca Stavrakopoulou, Dale Allison, or Bart Ehrman?
I would say people are allowing this stuff. Don’t bring God in it.
If god is all powerful and all knowing, then he is aware that "this stuff" will happen, and could stop the "stuff" from happening. On that basis, it is his fault.
@@marcuscook3852 God gave us freedom of choice, He didn't create us to be robots. Is it Gods fault that I cheated on my wife or mine? It's 100% my fault. Marriage allows for the freedom to choose self or to choose love, sadly not always the right choice is made. Thankfully Jesus chose love and paid the penalty for my sins and everyone else's 🙏 Justice and mercy met at the cross 😊
I have to admit as someone who has been a Christian for 30 years, and loves the Lord beyond measure, that I have struggled with this issue. I've studied for enough years to know the reason why the world is as it is. But my thoughts sometimes goes back to before creation, and in that not understanding why God in His omniscience, seeing the path the world would take with all of the death and destruction that would take place. And yet inspite of that, He went ahead with creation. I have no answers, but my faith in Him says He does. Because one day all will be revealed.
If He hadn’t created the world, we wouldn’t exist, let alone be saved. In order for us to exist, and have loving relationship with him, he needed to allow these other things to take place. But at the same time, he gave people a way to be saved and freed from all of this in eternity.
People only have themselves to blame if they reject God.
Yes I know God's overall plan for the saints...and I'm eternally grateful for the privilege of life itself. And I know that those who reject the Lord have no excuse, but I also struggle with the horrific sexual abuse of children, the atrocities committed against people/children in wars, the starvation and hideous diseases children suffer. So there are many examples of crimes committed by people, but there are also events that aren't ie: Natural disasters, which also have caused untold suffering of people/children. I don't expect any answers from the Lord on this....but just to raise it as a topic for discussion.
Natural disasters are the result of the fall of man, so directly the result of sin. I look at the suffering, and see the evil of man. It surely must bring any honest person to the place where one recognises that man is not good! Sadly most compare themselves to others, and say “I’m not as bad as THAT.” This too is deception. I love how the Sermon on the Mount exposes the very heart attitude of man. One cannot escape their condition when confronted with this!
@@lionoffireraw Quite an absurd notion.
@@lionoffireraw So why did god "create the world", and man?
You’re right to first point out the logical fallacy of their question based on their world view, but the fact does remain that God does allow those things, and if someone wants to know why we should be willing and able to give them an answer.
Actually, we need to know the definition of allow. God gave people free will, which means they are PHYSICALLY able to do these things, but God does not allow these things in the sense that, if people do them, they will be judged.
@@bobbohata9641 No, allow means allow. If God didn’t allow these things, they wouldn’t happen.
@@chrisspatz8811 You are begging the question. A word can have several definitions.
@@bobbohata9641 It would seem that it is you who is "begging the question", by suggesting an dubious definition of the word "allow". What you really meat to say is that, whilst these things happen, god does not condone them.
@@marcuscook3852 Ok. So if a policeman can't force someone to obey the law, then still arrests that person, he allowed that person to break the law. Whatever.
Hey, I got another one. How would you answer: Can God create a rock He cannot lift?
I believe I have an interesting answer, which might not be so direct. Interested in yours.
Love your content by the way, brother.
I would say that that is logically inconsistent, and that God cannot do anything that is logically inconsistent, because he is 100% logical. Just like he can’t make a “round square.”
Thanks heaps! You too have a gift of making difficult concepts plain 😊 Please keep up the good work.
A pastor online got asked that one and his answer was simply "He wouldn't".
Sorry, I have to leave. One of your other followers is too prone to arguing. God bless and may your health improve..
You can always watch the videos, without commenting.
God is not responsible for these tragedies. Mankind is. God gave us, His children, the right to make choices. That includes the choice to be saved or not. Humans yield unto the base, fallen aspects of our nature and human tragedy is the result.....invariably.
Hope you're having a good week. 👋👋 from Kansas.
Um, God did not give humanity the “right” to make the choice to be saved! Man is not a child of God, either. The bible explicitly says that only His elect are His children. Everyone who has not yet received the gift of God’s grace, lest any man should boast, of eternal salvation through faith, born again, whom have been drawn by the Father and adopted unto Christ Jesus, is under wrath. Faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is given by God to His whom He predestined and knew before the foundation of the worlds. It is all documented repeatedly in the bible. Anyone who gets these facts wrong is not consistently nor constantly reading the entire bible over and over year in year out!
That sounds like the false teaching a Calvinism. Be careful not to fall for that. It’s gnostic nonsense!
The early church fathers who were taught directly by the apostles (who wrote the Bible) never believed that God chose some before birth and rejected others before birth. This doctrine was introduced into the church hundreds of years later by Augustine (who was influenced by his involvement in the gnostic cult of the Manichaean faith for 9 years).
This is a great video on the topic (16 mins)
⬇️
ua-cam.com/video/7GpwypdXpRw/v-deo.htmlsi=mW6qKnkIzaDs0lLB
@@lionoffirerawWhoa!!!!! Brother, Leighton Flowers is a proven false teacher. I have listened to many debates of his for a long time. He never can fully stick to a full text debating....like the book of John. Doctrines of grace are not false teaching. With all love and respect, please keep working through this issue. Been a Christian for almost 40 years and I study the Word daily, as well as doctrine.
God is not responsible for natural disasters like tsunamis ? If a human being creates a mechanism that kills or injures someone, the inventor is held responsible, & rightly so. If God invents the natural order, how is God not responsible when its working kills or injures people ?
God is supposed to be an Almighty Loving Saviour - so why does God, the ALS, not save people from natural disasters ?
I am not quite sure what outrage you are talking about, I have never had anyone be outraged when it has come up, but more to the point, what could we say to explain why God allows genocide, rape & slavery? Also, I would drop the ice cream analogy, it doesn't work well. It does not explain why the question is invalid.
1. He doesn’t permit it.
2. I’ve seen a lot of outrage.
3. Ice cream example demonstrates the absurdity of the atheist claim to moral outrage.
@@lionoffireraw Ok, so if he doesn't permit it, why does it happen? What can we say? I haven't, but I will allow for differences. I am just saying that the analogy does not seem to fit the situation. I am worried people will think comparing awful things to choosing a flavor of ice cream will be too flip?
Hi there. Atheist here. I believe in objective moral values, and I believe that the god of the bible, if he were to exist, is objectively immoral.
You have no basis to believe in objective morality, as an atheist. If all that there is is motion and matter, there are no objective (which must be transcendent) moral laws, only motion and matter! There’s nothing immoral about one bunch of atoms colliding with another bunch of atoms!
But you DO recognise objective morality (in contradiction to the atheist position) because you live in God’s world, and know objective morality exists!
@@lionoffireraw You don't get to tell me my position.
Objective morals derive from the facts of reality. I don't believe that they do or can come from a god.
@@lionoffireraw An atheist can say that slavery is always wrong, in all circumstances: that is objective moral law. On the other hand, a Christian can rely on the Bible to decide that slavery is sometimes right but perhaps not always: the ambiguity here means that the Bible does not provide a truly objective moral law.
An atheist can say that it is always wrong to kill a person unless in self-defence: again that is objective moral law. A Christian has to consider the Bible, where even genocide is sanctioned: in matters of life and death the Bible does not provide an objective moral law.
It’s the ambiguity that makes the Bible subjective. You can choose whatever moral guidance you wish.
Current state of Israel think God does, and a lot of Christians think it's correct
Defending oneself against terrorists who attempt to exterminate you?
Free Palestine... FROM HAMAS!!
It's tragic that the Palestinian people are oppressed by a leadership that not only puts civilians in danger, but WANTS them to die, for political reasons.
@@lionoffireraw so, in the spirit of Jesus who laid down his life for those who hated him:
It's consistent is it, to take revenge on a whole population, a tiny part of which attacked your country? On the background of decades of abuse? It's ok to kill tens of thousands of civilians, wound 100 000? It's ok to cut off food and water? It's ok to bomb suburbs? It's ok to bomb hospitals? That's all self defence?
If nothing else, I'm glad you've shown your true colours. You are preaching a false gospel, saying you represent Jesus whilst advocating for violence, for war crimes, for genocide, and for ethnic cleansing.
Yes, it is self defence. Attacking an enemy who is trying to kill people and destroy a nation!
All that Hamas would have to do is stop, and it ends. No one to blame but them for the death of Palestinians.
Wake up!
@@lionoffireraw I have woken up ... to your hatred of those who are created in God's image.
Disgraceful.
@@pastorofmuppets8834 Yes, that's exactly what I'd say to Hamas. Good point. Agreed.
Well I'm not making a moral judgement when I simply point out that the Bible condones lifelong, generational chattel slavery. Which is so often denied in apologetics these days. Everyone can make their own decision on the morality of that fact, but I think they should be told the truth regardless. And they're not getting that from modern apologetics. To me, insisting on having a debate on the source or type of morality is just a way to avoid talking about what the Bible says on difficult subjects. Leave the conclusion on the morality of what the Bible says and doesn't say to each individual. Just stick to the truth is all I ask.
And I've read the article from got questions you linked to. And even this article agrees that the Bible condoned chattel slavery.
What is immoral about that form of slavery?
Is it objective morality?
What standard of morality do you base this on?
Ps. Do you recognise that people actually sold themselves into this form of “slavery” because it was more beneficial for them, then not. There were those who also chose to remain as “slaves” rather than not be “slaves,” because it was more beneficial for them. And then if we look forward to the New Testament, a large percentage of the population were born servants. This included educated people, who made this decision, because it was a beneficial arrangement.
This is not even remotely similar to slavery of African-Americans in the United States. you would have to admit this.
@@lionoffireraw that's what I thought when I read the OT first time. I don't know what the Hebrew word for slave was or meant that was used in the text, but to me, the context made it seem like it was interchangeable with voluntary servitude.
@@lionoffireraw I would absolutely admit that if it was true? You seem to be mixing up rules for native Hebrews only, with rules for actual lifelong chattel slaves in the Bible? Because there are both kinds. So which kind of "form" of slavery are you talking about? Me, I'm talking about the involuntary lifelong chattel slavery in the Bible. And it does have many similarities to American slavery. It sounds like maybe more than you're aware of? And I'm referring to Old Testament slavery, not new. By the NT Israel was under Roman rule, so I'm looking at OT.
@@aaronharlow2137 What verses are you referring to Aaron? Some of them absolutely do, I agree. Others however do not
The onus would be on you to prove that this form of slavery is similar to slavery in America.
These foreigners have chosen to put themselves in the position (either by attacking Israel etc) where they know what the result for them will be. They are not unaware of the consequences, prior to their actions.
This is a safeguard for Israel, to ensure that foreign nations do not infiltrate the nation, and attempt to undermine the theocracy
(which would have dire consequences for the history of the world).
Ironically, the “consequences” are better for these foreigners than if they had never entered in to Israel. The conditions are favourable (unlike foreign nation’s slavery), and they are in a position to receive salvation (the only thing that ultimately matters) from the only source that can provide it. They are treated well, and looked after.
No comparison to American slavery.
Nice try. But you’ve missed the mark here!