1176 vs. Bluey - Can You Hear the Difference?
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
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The Black Lion Audio Bluey limiting amplifier was designed specifically to be a sonic clone of a very special 1176 unit owned by acclaimed mix engineer Chris Lord Alge - so how does it compare to a stock modern-day 1176? You be the judge - tell us what you hear in the comments below!
Audio analysis begins at 15:16
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What do you think of the Black Lion Audio Bluey? Can you hear the difference? Let us know in the comments!
to compare put the same bit of audio not difrent everytime wtf
put it in a loop i dont care of vocals performance for compressor i need same audio cmmped
Amazing, already saving to buy it
does the job, we get get all arsey about the devil in the detail, i dont think hendrix worried
They actually sound quite different, the original having more presence and more 'in your face' factor. It sounds more radio/CLA, while the Black Lion Audio version has a similar smoothness to it but darker, and lacking the presence it feels and sounds less 'radio' - less polished/finished in a commercial sense.
In the beginning I wondered if it was just the difference in the singer's performance / mic distance from line to line. (A more honest, naked comparison would have been letting people hear the exact same lines A/B'ed.)
But the characteristics kept repeating in every single case, even though I hoped it would not: 1176 has that finished sound to it, Bluey had a more ordinary, smooth darker sound.
"i asked her if she loved me and she said 10-4" is the worst lyric i've ever heard. no snare sound can save that
i would never think to write something so dumb... i will never be famous
LOL
Dont even get what that means...
@@NoCoverCharge Maybe producing or mixing dumb lyrics is the only way to get famous. Look at where this guy got, i would be ashamed if most of work was to do with such lyrics although it bring big money...
@@Balverine 10-4 means "Ok" its an affirmative command for people that fly.
Haha I love this guy. He is the perfect example of a lot of successful people. A mixture of some real talent and a total belief in their own BS at the same time.
Hahahahah you said it!
What successful person doesn’t believe in themselves?
steve10358 but the stuff he’s saying is total crap sometimes. But he has absolute faith even if he doesn’t know what he’s saying is nonsense. It’s simply interesting how effective this is - you’d think talking nonsense would be a fatal hindrance (it is in many sectors)
Mm, less talent than intelligence, knowledge, and thousands of hours doing it (5,000 mixes?). His confidence comes from mixing hundreds of hits, not vice versa. ;)
Which guy?
50% of you = "The original has a more bright and aggressive top-end that the new one doesn't have."
The other 50% = "The original has that darker vintage sound and a cleaner top end."
Almost truly believe not a single person here can detect an actual difference other than what our brain wants, lol.
Then I guess you have to trust your ears 😉
I'm hearing huge difference between the two personally and think the original sounds brighter maybe around the 8khz region is mostly all...no dig at BLA I love those guys and have had 2x interfaces modded by them!
Thank you for the video is what I also meant to say! Awesome stuff!
exactly.
The thing is - he's using onboard EQ and faders so there could be slight differences even if everything is set the same. As he said - every piece of vintage gear sounds different, even if it's the exact same EQ module.
They definitely don't sound the same. I could hear a very clear difference every time he switched. Not necessarily "better" ...I think I might like the Black Lion darker one better, but the old one has way more saturation on the high-mids. The new one is darker.
Exactly
Yep, heard exactly the same.
True. I much prefer the darker version.
Yup
thank god. i thought it might have been me for a second. The '69 is magic, but both would do the job. Just stop calling them "exactly the same"
Pretty big difference in the saturation characteristics... the vintage sounds like it has about 2dB boost to frequencies at 1.5k and above, but it’s from the saturation imparted by the unit. The Bluey isn’t bad sounding but it has far less character
Thank you, I heard the same thing.
yup, I agree. Way more harmonics on the real bluey.
I felt that they are pretty much the same to my ears.... In the end, you have a very good compressor for a decent price without the need of selling your car to buy one. Cheers from Greece
I do agree
Anyone who’s saying they think the Bluey sounds inferior is an absolute tool. They sound virtually identical. Slap an EQ on if it’s not warm enough or whatever the hell their complaint is, it’s $1000 instead of LITERALLY one of a kind lmao
@@BradsGonnaPlay No, not true. I would commit to a blind test on this. The original has very noticeable sizzling top end saturation that sounds so pleasing. I was hoping this was not the case. I'm listening in my home studio, so that may make a big difference too.
For the exact comparison you have to run the audio trough the same channelstrip. No channel on that SSL will sound the same. Then as andy M already said, loop the same section to A/B don't switch compressors in a switch between verse and chorus.
The “Bluey” is softer and darker sound - the Original sounds more defined, sharper, more lively
markbuzard I thought the Bluey had a bit more balls and weight IMO.
But these sort of things are so dynamic (no pun) and react to each word differently. I’d love to hear the same phrase ..dry, back to back.
Agreed. I wonder if you could mod it a little.....
completely. they're fairly close but not equal. the original 1176 has an edge and forwardness. I'm guessing its harmonic distortion is more pronounced. Bluey is great nonetheless
Exactly. I came here to give the exact same description you did! And it was obvious to me even on my tv with attached mid priced speakers + sub. The 1176 has a presence to it, and sounds and FEELS quite a bit more "radio". The Bluey sounds darker and less 'in your face'. I had more or less decided to buy one until I heard the differences.
Let’s not forget that they’re both from different strips on the console!!
This is very funny. I love Chris. And Chris loves Bob Clearmountain. And I love Bob. I worked with Bob.
And when Chris was talking about doing the vocal at 30, 18, 3 & at 7. On his Bluey 1176. Well. That's the same thing I've been doing with my Revision-D and silver G's, for years. But with, all buttons in, super crunch mode.
And the way I tell people. Who tell me my vocals sound so natural. I tell them there is absolutely nothing natural about my vocals. I'm crunching the be Jesus out of the vocal. And if the meter doesn't look like, your windshield wiper. During a hurricane in South Florida. At 70 mph. You're not using it right. You're not getting enough. And then I heard CLA here, say the same funny stuff. And I'm like yeah yeah yeah. But it doesn't have to be a Bluey, 1176, specifically. Unless you want to be CLA. And I still get the same sound. Is it exactly the same? Hell no. He doesn't push all buttons in for that. I do. And then. The gain reduction meter. Will really look like your windshield wipers on your car. Swinging full deflection back and forth back and forth. Then you're using it right. And set 30-18-3 & 7. With all buttons in! And you too can have. Natural sounding vocals. With absolutely nothing natural about them. When you do it that way. It's fun. It's extremely gratifying like that.
It's all in good fun
RemyRAD
You are a character man thank you :P
so CLA uses on his Ld Vox all Buttons In always? or 4:1 ?
How do they get that bass (guitar or synth I cant tell) sound. Its lush
The difference could be due to that particular channel on the desk not just the limiter itself.
I have mine also with the black lion eighteen and the vocals sound like silk. Thanks again black lion and Chris for letting them model it after the original
How do you like the 18. Clearly Black lions best kept secret
Great stuff!
Pretty obvious difference, the original being brighter and grittier. Maybe close enough, if you like that sound.
I have it. It’s amazing. I still yet to experiment with it.
Lindell Audio has an 1176 out that sounds pretty good. The attack and release knobs function like the "bluey".
Y'all talkin about the compressor, man the demo track sounds KILLER ! Cheers Track 45
Is "Bluey" good to use during the tracking process, or is it better suited for mixing?
The A/B was pretty convincing!
Returned mine. WAY too noisy. So much hiss and stuff, not for me. Tried it with U87, 67,Peluso P12,Flea 47. Vocals. Went for Empirical Labs, distressor. Nice and clean. I also have a LA-2A. The Bluey, failed for me.
Did you have multiple inputs in by chance? (Xlr and trs?) I noticed my WA76 when plugged in with both (set for recording / mixing) is very noisy so I can only have it plugged in one way or another. Its kind of a bummer.
There's a difference in the low mids and hi's but I really doubt you'll hear it in a mixed song... awesome...!
There are so many factors going on here:
-Do the channel strips sound slightly different?
-Is the eq really exact?
-How much are their Lavs picking up? etc.
They should do a pass of each with the interface I/O only and switch that way with absolutely no talking. They do sound very different in this video, but not sure if the comparison was accurate.
Everyone is saying the original has a little more presence but at least part of that could totally be the fact that it's a different channel.
Great song!
Original is a tad brighter and more aggressive , the Bluey seems a bit more squishy and softer. sigh.
I thought the same thing listening on my iPhone......not one better than the other necessarily.
Yeah - you can pick it out straight away... same analysis here, the original is brighter and has a touch more THD... definitely not as close as they make out.
I get the same... Thought I was hearing things but then saw this message.
What I heard, the original is a little bit mid rangy and the bluey is brighter and saturated, or I'm just not hearing well.
Edit:
If there is a difference, it would be the board, like channel 17 would be a little bit mid rangy, and 18 brighter with some saturation.
@jhan bass no idea where that comment came from, Sweetwater asked if a difference can be heard, I can hear a difference and commented as such.
The original unit seems much grittier and has more high mid frequencies to me, at least. I prefer that sound better.
09:45 - the good stuff
I'm absolutely loving mine so far! It sounds amazing and is at the best price you will ever find for a blue stripe 1176.
Brandon Beckwith agreed. Not sure what everyone is complaining about. Thought this demo was great.
Do have actual 1176 to compare it to
@@DaNOIZEBOYZWhy does it matter? For a fraction of the price it gets you 95% of the way there. Nobody is listening to music going “Nah, that’s not a real 1176 bluey”.
They indeed sound identical but I ask myself if I at all like the sound of this compressor.
It for sure depends on what you wanto to achieve.
The Mids are more full and saturated on the 1st one which makes the vocals sound dominant and crisp as if they are "carving" their way to the front of the mix sort of like an Avalon 737sp on hip-hop vocals. The second has more boost in the 100hz and below range making the lower frequencies more prominent, but the vocals sound "cleaner" as if they are sitting in their own space with the other frequencies encircling them a space apart sort of like a baby in a warm comforter. The highs are about equal. I could see how automating these two and using them in tangent or parallel could produce some SICK results.
@9:57 If the meter doesn't look like a windshield wiper it's not enough.
This is so true - In recording school they teach you to barely compress things and I never liked 1176 style compression as a result - it was always too grabby when I was trying to use it to compress peaks. Years later I got a pair in my studio and started to experiment...what he said about bringing life to lifeless source material is so true! Slam a boring vocal, voiceover, guitar, snare, bass etc through an 1176 and it instantly has 'that sound'. You know, the sound that makes you think, "oh yeah - now I'm mixing a record!"
That's because schools and others are realizing this hyper-compression manure is really killing music. keep compressing, just as you feel the sound "lifted" and leave it alone, music is supposed to be performed, and mixing should be mostly arranging. No music fabricated by knob monkeys, portraying as "creators" for me.
I can hear differences, but I've ordered one thou
I love using these things. I’m using plugins these days tho.
Bro seriously it’s a matter of taste and preference. You can’t go wrong with the bluey. I’m so impressed
Depends on what you prefer. Original brings more “crackle” out of this particular vocalist. The 2020 floats more, has a silky feel to it, at least for this vocal.
I got one (not from Sweetwater), it sounds awesome. The only thing that's wrong my partivular unit is that the VU meter is sitting at -2dB and not 0dB.
Email them to ask how to calibrate the meter.
Mines does that after it heats up
Yes i thinkI am hearing the high end more on one of them. I don't know which?
This, right here, is the perfect marketing tactic of ALL TIME. They've made a replica of something that there is literally only ONE of in the world, so only one person on the planet can tell you if its right or not. No youtuber, no other engineer or producer can say that it does or doesn't sound like the original because only CLA has the original. So...it doesn't even need to be right. haha. I'm sure it's great, but it's just interesting.
I can hear the clear difference even on iPhone speaker
What, there are still originals made by universal audio, UA is the same as urei
@@Balverine CLA has a one of a kind version that has been repaired and modded by multiple studios, giving it a unique sound
That mix tho 🤯
that is a crappy vocal performance period! There is a difference but imho it won't be the reason your song is a hit
@@NyakzOTSD you may not like the delivery (I don't, and I don't like the song much), but a crappy *performance* it is certainly not.
Oh I can hear the difference the blue he had more high-end presents and clarity well it sounded really nice and more EQ balanced it wasn't quite as thick and forward as the original 1176. I think the original 1176 sounded a little bit more intimate but it needed a little bit of high-end EQ to match the bluey. I'm really impressed with the bluey ! I have some of black lions other products and I have to say they're at First rate company and they really stand behind their their gear awesome people to deal with!
It sounds very sweet, 69´ version 1176 i mean, clear difference...one could ask, what makes that sound that the guys from BLA cant replicate it..
I mean, for that price it's okay. Thanks guys! ("Audio analysis begins at 15:16")
Came here because MusicTech claims the Black Audio Seventeen being GearOfTheYear www.musictech.net/features/awards/best-outboard-gear-2019/.
Quite a bad year then.
Bluey as the last Instance in the Vocal Channel? Or first instance?
1176 so much better. Adds the mid range excitement that makes it famous.
Many shootouts will probably be forthcoming like waves plugin blue vs Hardware etc. Maybe mods or upgrades?
What exactly his settings for 1176? Attack and release
3 & 7 Attack/Release
the 69 has that saturation, (high end aggressiveness) the bluey doesn't have it... put in a saturation knob... could be better??
okay but what is this song they're listening to???
Sold!
Fun video!!
What about the waves CLA 1176? Just as good right?
hahaha
Lol
Looks cool! A low cut sidechain filter would have been massively useful and welcomed. It's my biggest gripe with 1176. They are great and I use them all the time, but I'd have to do a lot less finagling if there was a low cut sidechain filter, because sometimes the low end (of say a drums bus going to 1176 in parallel, all buttons in) gets a little messy and sludgy in the low end and I have to push less into it, which loses the impact i wanted and defeats the purpose, so I end up switching to something with better control or less pumping and smudging of the low end, like an ssl g comp or 33609. I guess that's why he uses a 33609 if he's doing parallel drum bus compression. :/
The Bluey is going to be a great addition to my studio however the original had more character for me. The Bluey seems to be slightly more restricted/smooth/less saturated?... just a little less character. Still buying one today though.
I’ve been wanting to buy from black lion for wing time to support them as a smaller American company. This may have put me over the edge
jhan bass unfortunately I’m married and the wife and spoke. The words no gear enthusiast wants to hear. I’ve been relying on the plugin version from UAD for vocals and bass though
I reckon the finest bit of the Mixhub drive running into it would be spot on. BLA for the win! do his 3A now please please please!!!
You can hear the compression a lot more on the bluey than on the original! The original sounds much more lively and open.. i was hearing this before they where telling which is which.. and realised the one i thought was the original was in fact, the original
old unit does seem to have a lil more bite, low mids... but damn the character of the new unit is 99% there in imo.
i have bluey for 2 months now but today i found very strange sound come from it when i turn off the monitor speaker and Vocal sound came from inside bluey how that could be is it have small speaker inside it vocal sound come from inside bluey and output knob turn up or down change the volume coming from inside bluey too even i turn mix knob at 0%
I had exactly the same problem on a second unit (not on the first one, but that one had other problems). It indeed sounds crazy and I also couldn't explain. Anyway, it's not normal. You should send it back!
@@xjanssens can you describe what (sound crazy) means
@@mohabosama I mean that no sound should be coming from inside a processing device. It's not meant to be a speaker, just to pass audio! :) So it's pretty crazy some people are describing this problem. They must have put some gremlins inside during manufacturing.
In my ears, the original sounds more open. The bluey seems to be more covered, husky.
But it sound nevertheless good. I will check one in my studio hopefully soon. 😊
The original sounds much better imo. Brighter & more energetic!
how much royalties would this this guy get for selling these units?
Definitely a difference in high end. I prefer the darker one
i have a blue stripe REV A and that freaking thing doesnt do 1176 squashed vocals like the standard contemporary 1176, i love it on drums but ive always wondered how CLA used that thing on vox cause it just dont work like id think it would
I hear the difference. The original has a nice snare drum snap-impact. Then the bluey squishes-softens it up more. Possibly a slower release is responsible in part
I can hear a difference on my cellphone for sure, I think they didn't nail the slew rate but it's still great nonetheless.
Pretty freaking close if you ask me, I want one
the original is crunchier. but man, this is seriously the hardware release of the decade. I want 6
Pretty close. What I heard was a difference in the high end. The vintage one had a great, smooth & darker high end & the new one didn't have that. The new one was more clean in the high end & lacked the dark roundness of the vintage. Both were great for cutting through the mix & delivering a solid, in your face vocal though.
Im hearing the opposite. The old one sounds like a clearer top end./
CLA´s 1176 has more grit in the top end! Kinda makes his voice more raspy.
Yeah i thought so too. to me the obvious difference was in the high end. and maybe the release felt a bit slower on one of them
It's not exact, but it's close enough in the context of a mix. The harmonic distortion is definitely not exact, but I bet you anything, after the units are broken in it settles nicely.
I would've preferred if they actually said what they were thinking... based on what they were actually hearing...
I thought the whole point of bluey’s sound is how it is different from a stock 76a, because of the cumulative sonic effect of non standardized mods, (adding non original parts)? So, commenting on how alike they sound, isn’t really the point? I also thought one sounded a little more detailed in the highs, the other more mid forward. So, it seems the original has the more high end detail, bluey, the low mid forward push, but these differences were not huge: other than differences in distortion , a eq, could mimic these differences? The 1176 has distortion around 6-8k, which is a big part of its sound, be nice to hear these two a little more over driven to hear more of those differences too?
what song ?
If only they could hot rod my Focusrite 8i6 3rd gen!!!
The original has more detail/upper mid/high end slight boost. And I'm just listening on my laptop. I'm a little surprised they aren't noticing that. But, these are the sales guys, so I guess they aren't going to bring that up. Black Lion sounds a little smoother but slightly less exciting, but a bit of upper end eq boost would get them even closer. For the price, you gotta get the Black Lion. What a great deal!
yes I can hear the difference the original CLA is cleaner more presence and clean top end the BLA is thicker and muffled with light eg boost after they would be matched in my opinion still a good usable unit. good job and a good price.
I like that song, what's the name of the band?...
I could hear the difference, but they're both good and the differences negligible IMO.
There is a significant difference somewhere around 500-1500hz. The bluey has trouble taming those frequencies. Theyre substantially different. Nothing but love for CLA though. A Living Legend.
By listening to it on my Samsung TV speakers it was very obvious that the original sounded brighter, grittier and was forward. New version sounded really smooth and soft, it didn’t have that presence and character. I guess the old version saturates really nicely
lol..."30 -18-3-7" That's totally how I run em too. Sometimes I'll let the release set at like 6 or just less if it's popping into the front of the mix JUST a bit too much and I want it to breath a bit slower and squash a bit more. Of course 6-10 db gain reduction. For vocals it really is "THAT SOUND".
ratio ?
Can CLA & Mitch chime in on why most find a difference in the video while Mitch & CLA did not while monitoring?
BLA Bluey is not a 1:1 clone due to mix knob & supposedly some inclusion of CLA's SSL insert circuit emulation or something. If the last point is true, why wasn't a bypass switch included in the design?
I don't want to hear the same. I want to hear different. I can't tell how close it it to the original unless you compare it to other 1176s.
For those who wonder what is the song is actually by Sam Williams, not by Track45, and the song is “Sam Williams - 10-4”
I don't know but the compression in the original unit seems more smooth. Could just be me.
The funny thing about this is that BL said they accounted for the SSL insert circuit in the Bluey clone, so IF they did that, then they should sound different in this test from the stacking insert circuit right? haha this is fun
That's it. Best answer! Because he's doubling on the buffer with the new one and the SSL!! Of Course.. This makes me very happy.. mine just arrived today - going to hook it up.
What difference does that impart though?
“you’re buying my opinion”..🤣
it seems like bluey is more focused on low frequencies and less extra harmonic distortion. 1176 is airier and kinda harsh! shining more also.
the low is pretty good in bluey and as our friend said in the lower comment, the new model is cleaner.
but isn't it different? :/ they are not the same:/ but the new model is good. it is good for modern music and will work better I guess.
This man know his shit and thats a great price
this man knows how to get PAID
The differences are not in what they accomplish as a function, both give the vocal that compressed, but "A SOUND" not like overcompressing a stock itb compressor, but the real good compressed cool sound, if one is a bit grittier or darker etc, really irrellevant as they achive the function desired and the emotion desired imo :)
19:49. Can't tell? It's easy to tell the difference. One is brighter, one is warmer. Very obvious.
Outside of a few slight sonic differences due to aging components, this thing sounds essentially the same, and more importantly it's responding to the correct frequency ranges In order to sound virtually indistinguishable. I really want to get a few of these now. Black Lion and CLA did a great job. Yes there's a little more top and bottom end, but really no one would notice in a mix (give it time to age and catch up to the original).
@georg walt ~Alright George? You don't think it's sounding close as described? I'm saying it is different, but the key frequencies are being addressed (though it is more "Hi-Fi" in that it's not rolling off highs and lows the same way aged electronics would due to slight phasing issues created by heat and wear/tear over time).
I used to own a rack of eight vintage Neves (with PSUs since they weren't installed in a console). They all sounded a little different due to how electronics that generate a lot of heat age.
How "Different" is it? Is it not accomplishing the same task essentially? Or is it so off the mark that it's not usuable for the same purpose in a pro work environment.
I also owned a original Klon Centaur Overdrive (I was the original owner), from 1999 through 2015, and as my Klon aged, some frequencies in the top and bottom end blurred a bit due to heat/age of components). Currently I use a Mythical Overdrive from Rimrock FX, which sounds virtually identical. Not "The Same" to my original unit. And I own a Warm Audio 273 (no EQ). Same differences here. The Imaging in the stereo image when used to record is virtually identical to the original vintage units. However, because they have not aged, there is more of a Hi-Fidelity reproduction in signal.
I've tested dozens of Klon "Klones", the Rimrock feels/responds/sounds virtually identical (especially with imaging and how the distortional saturates/breaks up) while playing and recording. I've used about six different boutique clones of Neves, and I felt the frequency response and imaging, as well as the Total Harmonic Distortion characteristics of my Warm feel virtually identical to the preamps in my old 1066's and converted 1272 Line Amps from the early days of Brent Averill (before they changed to modern components for building clones when Mark Laughlin took over after Brent's unfortunate passing).
What EXACTLY is so "different" other than a slightly wider frequency response here? The image feels about the same. It's sitting in the mix just about the same while listening back on PSI A17ms and an ADAM Sub8 through my Prism Titan converters.
Do you feel the distortion characteristics are too different? Do you feel the imaging isn't sitting correctly on what you're listening on? Both channels in CLA's console won't be perfectly stereo matched (they're not stepped in control, and heat in an old desk like that will create slight differences in phase non-linearity from channel to channel (again due to heat/age, and oxidation for good measure with exposed circuits from channel to channel).
I'm saying we're definitively "close enough for Rock and Roll". And this modern unit, which would be easier to maintain than a vintage unit, also has a WET/DRY knob for parallel processing built in. They did a good job making something that sounds this close affordable, and they gave it some modern controls. Win/Win. Though personally I tend to prefer compressors come with Side Chains too, it's relatively inexpensive, and maybe that would change the tone of how it's compression knee grabs too much.
Surprise twist, only one unit was being used… the og unit, lol!
But I’ll be getting one…
In a recent schill for ILoud MTM monitors, Chris L A said the Ilouds were his new "go to" second monitors after his more expensive ones. Funny, I don't see them anywhere in his studio in this vid. hmmm
I totally agree with markbuzard, there is a difference and I prefer the original
There is a very clear difference between the two, no question. The original is much brighter and has that nice crisp, where as the “Bluey” has darker overall.
1 has a slightly deeper low mid for sure.
One is a bit brighter I guess the old one
There is one that is slightly more aggressive, exciting and brighter... must be the original blue stripe
I can hear a difference. That original was in fact warmer and had some type of harmonics/grit going on. It was distinct, the bluey was cleaner and sounded more compressed overall. The original was more open, wider, grittier. There WAS a difference, personally the original was better but who cares lol, I would LOVE to have that Bluey! Pshh, No Question! Awesome compressor and it sounded fantastic 👍
Sonically they do sound similar