EEVblog #29 - Audiophile Audiophoolery
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Dave cuts loose on the Golden Ear Audiophiles and all their Audiophoolery snake oil rubbish.
Directional cables, thousand dollar IEC power cables, and all that rubbish.
Monster Cable gets mostered.
Panasonic gets a serve too, or is that applause?
The Blue Jeans cable letter: www.audioholics.com/news/indus... - Наука та технологія
Even 8 years after the release of this video, it has never been so legit.
yea but i think dave's point is that there isnt a difference between your high end cable and your super high end cable as long as you don't have a shitty Chinese cable. I remember once seeing a cable that was like 5k and was shielded by special "crystals". You can't tell me that cable is any better than a high end one.
science! and the ability to distinguish bunk from reality. analog/audio signals are well known and studied at a level more accurate than the human ear.Shielding of speaker cables is a waste of money and will probably compromise their performance. Speaker cables are driven by extremely low impedance drivers in the amplifier to a very low impedance speaker load. In this low-impedance environment, coupling of low-level high-frequency magnetic or electrical fields will be miniscule and insignificant. Shielding speaker cable can also cause an adverse performance impact by increasing the capacitance of the cable. if someone accomplished in the field like dave, who works with analog signals all the time tells you that there is little difference, I would tend to trust him over your overwhelming acute sense of hearing.
I've done the whole high end cable route when I was 18 and naive, quad shielded, the works, even got a power conditioner. It made no difference with or with out it but I never use cheap Chinese cables as they are often poorly made connectors and have small awg wires. The only thing that made any difference was the speakers and the amp. Wiring has such a negligible effect as mentioned. I think it boils down to if it makes you feel better about your system or tricks you into thinking it's somehow better- that is something in and of itself and has its own intrinsic value. I personally wouldn't spend a bunch of money based off of a hi-fi websites pitch that there was better tonal quality because of such and such cable when they almost never do a double blind or a-b test.
MTD4TRUTH try what or hear what?
Alexander Fagard: Don't feed the troll. There have been enough tests with real people being fooled over and over again, not being able to hear any difference. Had i the equipment to make these tests, i would bet money on it and make a fortune.
If the cable makes that much difference then your amp's probably shitty or the caps are FUBAR.
Edit: I i like and make music, i can at least admit that i don't hear any difference. Speakers and the room acoustics make the big difference as you mentioned. I have STAX Earspeakers (low end freq is not "good" on these), they truly make a difference, but certainly not a power cable coated with virgin-blood, lol
I'm a graduate of the Carl Sagan school of Baloney Detection
And nowadays you drive Sagan to school.
I use metal coat hangers to wire everything up. Works just fine. The frequency response of the painted hangers is a little better than the bare metal ones.....
idiot
Bob Saturday lighten up
"everything"? I doubt you're using coat hangers for line-level signals
@@bobsaturday4273 You paid $2K for an AC line cord didn't you.
Try paint it red, trust me... much better... oh, paint must be audio grade.
There has to be a part 2 of this. Some of the shit that is going on in the audio industry is getting out of hand.
Great video, the problem is people with "Golden Ears" lose their talent when you blind test them. Every. Single. Time.
The worlds loudest wisper
lol
"The chocolatey mids"
Directional AC audio cables
My local Audiophool store sells a 6 ft "Diamond" HDMI cable for >$1000... I buy mine at Fry's for $3.99
KWatson1984 I buy mine at Monoprice for even less. Unless you count the shipping.
Ah yes is that the Audioquest Diamond?
I have one and my life has improved dramatically. My blu-rays have never been clearer and crisper. The audio quality is sublime too. Compared to a cheaper cable it is so much better that it actually turned my 480p DVDs into 4K blu-rays just by plugging it in.
HDMI is a digital signal, after all. If the bits aren't getting through as they should, the display will just glitch or not work.
Yep. People are stupid.
I bought my Diamond USB A to B for $300 10ft :P it was worth the experiment.
First of all, sorry for my English because it's not my native language...
My best memory about "Audiophoolery" was in 2004, when i had a job as a soundengineer.
This one time, there was a very stressed out clubmanager, complaining about the lack of treble in the soundsystem in the main area of that club (In Rotterdam, The Netherlands).
So i went there during closing time and listen with te manager to the sound. Then i went backstage en changed the settings of the equalizer while the song was still playing with the manager on the dancefloor.
After a minute or so, i set the equalizer to exactly the same settings as the where at the time before i changed them. So nothing was changed at all but the manager was so thrilled about te positive result, that until this day in his eyes. I'm an expert in sound enginering hahaha!
Machiel van der Schoot The amount of people in a club does affect the sound. But only if half the club disappeared.
Machiel van der Schoot nice i know that fealinh
I think you accidentally cleaned the wiper contacts in the equalizer and actually fixed the problem!
Just found this, about 13 years late. Still applicable today. My favorite was the Low-Oxygen Copper used in some "High End" Cables. So some cheap cables are made of oxygen rich copper? You mean like, green, crusty copper oxide? Damn. Scary concept. "A fool and his money are soon parted . . ."
power cables is the funniest lol, especially they think 2 meter of "special" cable helps, while the rest is just normal gauge copper wire...
+oldmanwitherspoon Another ISP technician here. Although it does seem ridiculous to have a cat. 6 or 7 wire in your home from the central switching point to your devices, only to have it connect to your crusty 50 year old wiring that leads to the house, i would still recommend it. Because it just makes things sort of "future proof". One may be able to get access to a Fibre connection in the future, or something else. Also, if you want to run a NAS or something, fast inhouse wiring can be beneficial.
My favorite line - “Well, it might be 99.99% copper but you don’t know what KIND of copper!”
And don't forget the fuse it has to travel through before it reaches the audio circuits. The wire in that fuse is slightly larger than a hair. Audiophools would believe it if they were told the word gullible isn't in the dictionary.
I like to break in my cables by cooking them in the microwave on high. Also a quick way to burn in your headphones.
I think it was on one of EEVBlogs other videos that I learned gold plated jacks are only plated to prevent corrosion not improve sound quality. Thanks EEVBlog :)
watched in 2012
watching in 2015
issue still not solved
RIP my life
watching in 2017. EEVblog have gone a long way :D
this won't go away anytime soon. this has been going on since the birth of hi-fi in 60s. never underestimate the power of 'more expensive must be better'. age old trick but always works like a charm. especially with naive people.
2018 same
2019.. Still true...
2019. Still idiots everywhere.
Good copper wire, good connectors, decent shielding shouldn't cost more than $15 for less than 10ft.
Any bigger ethernet cable
Why use good stuff. Use a coat hanger
How can anyone actually claim that their silver cables have so much purer treble or whatever than copper cables without a smirk on their face? Copper cables can cope with gigahertz signals on motherboards but apparently can't sufficiently deal with 10kHz treble? Right....
+Brian 1 Then don't ramble, just post links. Most of us here can understand conductance, skin-effect, and reactance. We accept you can see .5Ω over 1,000 meters of 24 gauge Cu wire with a 15kHz sweep or a .006% attenuation on your average lead.
+Brian 1
You're no guru comms technician.
I peg you as a liar mate.
All complex waveforms result from frequency summation and or phase angle differences of pure sine waves.
Even your square wave.
One would be unlikely use a cro to demonstrate the differences you mention, even inverting ch2, but rather spectral analyser / Fourier analysis.
Any changes in complex waveform are *only* and *always* due to attenuation at frequencies or the addition of new frequencies. Given that the addition of AF on a lead is nil that leaves some mysterious complex reactance with multiple Q points from 50 - 20kHz.
Don't be coming round here with your fresh youtube account and strawman thermionic valve claptrap trying to bullshit us.
Plonk!
+Jacob Fornby Actually, the gigahertz that goes through copper wire is a baseline measurement of its max, and generally tops out around 400MHz in a CAT6, but won't pass at all through a speaker cable. It's in the twist. However, if you really want some good audio cable, go to a hardware store and grab some heavy-gauge cheap-o extension leads and cut the ends off, strip them down nice, and get equal performance at a bargain price compared to anything in an audio shop. Or even at one of those department stores... and you might even have enough cable left over at the male end to have a decent cord for your projects :)
+Brian 1 You're talking about tubes, well tubes deform your waveform significantly. If you want to have the best reproduction of a waveform you should go with transistor based amplifiers. And having had a bit of physics I can tell you that there actually travels just one wave per cable for audiocables. Speakers on the other hand are worthwhile to invest some money in (but not shitloads), because speakers introduce usually the highest amount of wave deformation (dampening, response, etc...)
Simon van keer
True
Then the is the design of the vaunted valve amp. Triode, Pentode? Direct coupling, LC coupling? Transformer coupling?
By the time you know enough to understand all this then you'll want a couple of 2N3055 instead (consider them sold state triodes)
Gold plated HDMI is the funniest thing to me. It made sense with component cables but hdmi is digital. It either works or it doesn't.
***** True but the wire breaks long before that happens.
***** It probably depends on where you live. I have some cables that are nearly 30 years old that are fine. The Gold plated cables definitely look cool and I have tons of them. I just don't buy into Monster Cable's gimmick. Plenty of gold plated cables that are shielded well and not overpriced.
*****
I know what you mean. That has never happened to any of my cables but I have seen some that has happened to. Ugly is definitely an accurate description.
+TheFuuru I have a £2000Denon/Mission 5.1 hifi system and my interconnects are spdif bought on ebay for £2.99.If I can't hear the difference then Joe Public has no chance. MY speaker cables cost £80 but I was given them and they do need to be tightened occasionally.
yes
"A fool and his money will soon be parted."
-Shakespeare
"manufactured by nude virgins..." omg I lost it right there my stomach hurts! can't stop laughing uncontrollably
I would love to "manufacture" things together with nude virgins... :-)
You plug one of those cables into your ears and suddenly, a chugging electric generator would sound like a symphony! lol
Homeopathy for audiophiles. Good old placebo effect.
+Malcolm Hunter Absolutely...absolutely!. I mean you don't mind if people prefer to have nice gold plated leads or like the mellow tones of a valve amp or even prefer vinyl records over digital. That's all subjective taste and that's fine. I mean I like Apply stuff for goodness sake. It's when they wade in with pseudo-scientific claptrap and downright lies that gets my goat.
+Malcolm Hunter As I say, stupidity is only homeopathic intelligence: too thinned out to matter!
+Malcolm Hunter Exactly.
Step 1: Take anyone who swears that their incredibly expensive piece of whatever sounds so much better than a cheap one, and do a blind test with them so they don't know which one is which.
Step 2: Watch them try to rationalize the result (random chance).
Step 3: Laugh your ass off.
This! We changed a guys £500 interconnects for some free ones that came with some old separates. He hadn't noticed after several weeks, so we changed them back and he continued not to notice.
When we told him, he didn't believe us, but when his wife explained what had happened it sank in, and the look on his face was priceless!
I believe in placebo but people that have been in this hobby for over 25 years know better lol. I don't buy super expensive cables by the way but I do believe some can make a 5% improvement in the sound.
I blame this current audiophile scourge on bad science education. People will fall for virtually any pseudoscience rubbish provided it sounds complicated. It's really sad too because it's taking away income from manufacturers who actually do make good stuff, making it more expensive for those of us who do care about actual results.
Also, you'd think that if this stuff worked, then there would be industrial customers who need better signal quality. Particle physics labs, aerospace, military. And I would be very surprised if they're buying special volume knobs, directional crystal cables, special granite stones and other garbage.
Dave, please do an episode on digital cables! :) Maybe some mention of jitter, which can have an effect in some cases. But wow, some of the stuff is priceless: Things like HDMI cables with better picture quality.
You walk into Guitar Center, and when you go over to the lower priced cable area, the sales guy says: "Oh, so you don't want professional cables?" .... I then respond with, I don't want to be ripped off. Walk into the Best Buy store, and they have these HD cables selling for $80. You can pick one up at a second hand store for about $5.
Of course, the best cables to use are ones about as wide as two human thumbs. Change all of the connectors on your amp/receiver and speakers too really huge screw type or banana type; the improvement in sound will be tremendous in your own mind. The improvement in sound is of course all in your head and thoughts but it really makes no difference, as long as you think it is there what difference does it make. Of course all of the improvement is strictly in your head but what do you care; it's your money right. Oh, I almost forgot; do not use any o-scopes or other electronic devices on your new cables to test the output of your amp or receiver as your sense of disappointment will be tremendous.
:) Nice one!
A little bit of good wine, and your hifi will sound better. In fact, not, but you will ear better, and appreciate more.
I tried your advice Omnivorace and gave my hi fi a glass of wine, it started to smoke, there was a flash and all my lights went out ;).
omnivorace Yea I've heard that joke before. Actually I find being drunk makes my stereo sound worse.
Lol That's what I do haha.
that's the best improvement you can do
if someone ever was in a sound-studio;
They use "good" cables there ... nobody there use "monster"-cables ... They just need shielded cables für ballanced inputs the most. Telefon-landline-cables www.ecosia.org/search/images?q=J-Y%28ST%29Y+2x2x0.6 is really good and cheap! ;)
After that the cd is pressed and of course THAN you need much more expensive cables to compensate the cheap ones at the studio? ;)
I agree. No need to use better cables than what the recording studio uses.
Dave, we love you. I use this video to demonstrate to people posting on my pages about power leads and special fuses. 10/10 major thumbs up
Thank you EEVblog. We both know the cable ends are the most important parameter when it comes to cable but only for good tight connections and not for frequency response. Audio cables are a passive component! Thanks for the great upload.
I love this! Dave's reactions are priceless, made me laugh a few times. I agree with everything he says in this video.
Go ahead, pay £100+ for a magic cable that may only sound better to you. But if you build your own cables like I do, you'll have pride and satisfaction, so they will magically sound even better, plus they'll be a LOT cheaper! ;)
Here's the deal. Most companies charge exorbitant amounts for materials and termination process....coupled with the fact they won't sell as much.
Higher end cables DO SOUND GOOD but....there's diminishing returns....and is system dependent
Young Dave, I am from the future (2019)
I just want to say that your vids are the best out there. Thank you for such great vids.
I am one of these what they call Audiophile and I am well off with money, yet I spend only $2000 for a complete HT setup and I am completely happy with the music, I kinda agree with this guy, this industry is 95% BS.
@The God Effect More like 50%, the BS is not big part of it.
All the BS is mostly in cables, dacs and amps while headphones and speakers is legit shit, like ppl claiming that u need 1000$ headphone AMP to get richer sound etc, even in reality probably ure totally fine with 100$ AMP and good standard copper cable, anything above it wont make a difference or especially above 24bit 48000hz DAC.
this video made my day! you rock, dave!
I've got a gold-plated knob, my girlfriend loves it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH lol
Lol 😅
One of my all time favorites was the 'Directional Cable', like you mentioned in your video. If I should ever need a car battery boost, I will just have to wait patiently, as my cables get 'Broken In' lol Great video!
Great episode Dave. Thank you for telling it like it is. Well done.
"Iridium-doped" ... Classic!
Audiophiles - Listen to the music, not your system.
an audiophile and an audiophool are two different things
1. audiophiles want to make their systems sound as true to the recording as possible and also spend most of their time listening
2. audiophools buy all of the 40,000(name your currency) speakers and 130,000(name your currency) cables and spend all of their time in bestbuy's magnolia section.
I've read about a blind listening test a major industry magazine did in a major studio where everyone on the listening panel preferred the sound of wire coat hangers over a bunch of thousand dollar speaker cables. Great vlog. You sound just like us, over in our corner of Audioland. Well met, sir! Cheers!
Will a $1000 IEC cable make my jug boil any faster?
PutItAway101 It may be more capable of surviving water spillage than an unplated connection terminal, just don't metal-plate the isolated parts of mains cabling, as it will increase the deadliness.
I might be late but your water might taste smoother and easier to your mouth. yay
Only if you don't forget to apply snake oil on it before turning it on.
I was thinking of getting a PS Audio "noise harvester" and using it in my kitchen. Based on their guff I should end up with a sweeter, lighter sponge cake. Plus it'll double as a nice night-light. And only $99!
Keep it complicated make lots of money! you do NOT have to pay a lot of money to have good sound. Most audiophiles are neurotic introverts with no friends who hang on audio forums talking about cable upgrades
I need me one of those iridium doped volume knobs. Thanks Dave! 😂
was just chatting with a guy that claims that ever since they've reduced the lead in solder it's been causing "phasing" problems in audio and you can "totally" tell the difference using pure silver solder on connections!!! WOW..
can't remember the web site but they did tests with digital testers and people listening and the difference between cheapest wires and the most expensive was so little even the audiophiles on a blind test had a very hard time telling witch one they were listening to... it was zip wire for lamps and very expensive many dollars per foot of wire...
Haha I love your reaction to the technobabble. Having worked in audio for thirty years I have seen all this come, go and get silly and so on..Peter Walker said an ideal amplifier was a wire with gain and stood for none of the pseudo science. He was himself responsible for some of the finest designs we have seen. There has to be a way to describe the subjective impression a system delivers and the ''subjective'' terms were invented in the late 70s by magazines like ''The Absolute Sound'' Hi Fi answers and so on. There is no doubt equipment varies and the quality delivered varies dramatically. In my 30 years I have heard only a handful of truly great systems and the jaw dropping reality and (add favourite technobabble words) is enough to bring you to your knees with emotion. Unfortunately only a tiny percentage of people are going to be lucky enough to experience this and nobody using ipods ever will. We become nuts when we want to recreate/ improve that experience.
I remember seeing special felt tip pens that you were supposed to paint round the edges of your CD's to make them sound better. People really thought they worked!
Golden Ears can even hear those "differences" in UA-cam comparison videos through the compression algorithm and everything. Tons of comments under those videos confirm it. Amazing!
I wanted to take a minute and let you know how much I enjoy watching your channel! :) This video struck a chord, as I worked in one of those boutique audiophool shops for less than a year as the service bench tech. My conscience caused me to leave. Two things that still make me chuckle are the $50 rebadged Sharpie pen and the $100 glow-in-the-dark plastic CD. The rebadged Sharpie was supposed to be used to darken the outer edge of the disc. The claim was it was supposed to eliminate stray laser light escaping from the edges of the disc, thus 'eliminating tracking errors and distortion.' In the same display case, was the glow-in-the-dark thing. It was supposed to be placed on-top of the CD in the player. It claimed to 'Bathe the player in light to add richness to the sound." It seems that those two claims contradict each-other. Yes, I've seen $10,000 75-Watt power amps from the inside. Makes me want to SLAP people that fall for that crap! As-well, I've seen the 'directional' RCA cables, too. These had a choke and capacitor in a little box in the middle. The sweep I did with an O-Scope revealed that they rolled-off the highs and the lows. For sure, they sounded 'different,' but not 'better' for sure. Keep up the good work, man!
You think audiophiles are nuts, try electric guitarists. Many genuinely believe that what type of clear coat is used makes a difference to the sound above and beyond the variance in the electronics components, which are usually ±10% or worse.
@Dave Micolichek No, it isn't. Tonewood fallacy. No blind A/B test has ever shown any evidence behind any of those claims. Just to be clear though (NPI), we're talking electric guitars here, though even in acoustics, you'd have to invent a ridiculous comparison to tell any difference (the sound of a guitar with a saddle made of VG walnut vs. the same model, only with a saddle fashioned from cork, comes to mind). Regardless though, minutiae like differences in finish don't enter into the sonic picture. That's just an example of "hearing with the eyes".
@Dave Micolichek Irrelevant, old man. I can all but guarantee my ears are more sensitive than most, but that's utterly irrelevant because there is a much better, more objective way to settle this. It's called the double-blind A/B/X test. No one, nor any oscilloscope, can tell any difference (certainly not regarding guitar finishes), not even someone with a 5-50k auditory range could, because it doesn't even get picked up anyway. The whole issue is just absurd.
You sort of remind me of an old guitarist of mine. The guy was bizarre and quite amusing at first, but he became increasingly touchy and demanding, and ultimately insufferable. Some of our most well-received shows were followed by laments like, "That sound guy sucked. He had a grudge against me, you could just tell". Or, after mixing down, "Certain producers just have it in for guitarists, always pitting the rest of the group against the lead player", etc. Totally paranoid. One day, I kid you not, he swore off strap locks. Why? Ruined his lead tone. Only he could tell any difference, but boy, could he ever! This initiated a period of gentle ribbing, as bands will do. "Hey, today's your birthday, man, so I bought you some vintage pickup rings. These ones have the very best tone", and things like that. I don't think he appreciated that too much.
Within perhaps a week of his technological devolution, he was going off on some verbal tangent onstage, and his vintage gold top Les Paul worked itself loose from his precious vintage strap-button and did a hard nosedive into the floor. Bwowowow! Instantly skewed the intonation. Worse, it chipped and ruined part of the headstock. Things had become so bad at that point that there wasn't even a shocked period of silence from the rest of us. Our laughter was immediate and contagious as he stormed off the stage. I haven't heard from him since, though I must admit, that was as resonant as he ever sounded.
@Dave Micolichek Look: if I'm your 'son', then by logical extension, you're my 'old man'. All sensible people understand that our senses can be easily deceived. Just as there are well understood optical illusions, there are equally compelling auditory illusions, and there is the well documented 'hearing with the eyes' phenomenon.
I won't try to broaden your understanding of psychocoustics, I only hope you have as much fun as your tiny sandbox will allow. That aside, I find the Audiophile community to be very humorous. I have yet to meet a single member who has any soldering ability, let alone an EE degree.
No matter how ridiculous the claim, there is an endless market of consumers so dumb they'll fall for it. If I was a little less scrupulous, I'd happily laugh my ass off coming up with silly, bogus assertions to bleed your pocket dry. The icing on the cake would be that you'd thank me for it.
@Dave Micolichek Are you saying you don't find any problems with your tone after installing strap locks?
@Dave Micolichek I'm sure you could. It would sound just the same as a bird's eye maple/bubinga back version of the same model, no matter what finish was applied to either model.
Soooooooo right. Absolutely brilliant. Good on him for being brutally honest and upfront.
Audiophiles just got a lot of money!!!They dont listen to the music,the listened to their high priced equipment.I bought my audio equipment from Thrift store and it sound great!!!Makes me relaxed after hectic day schedule and that makes me feel so good.😀
Crisp and with an edgyness that benefits sharpness and increases depth :D
Audiophiles are one of the best examples of the power of the placebo effect.
In double blind tests people can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive cables, or even between cables and coat hangers, or cables and lamp cord. People can't tell the difference between different DACs and amps. They often can't even tell the difference between different headphones and speakers once you get beyond the cheap garbage and start comparing decent stuff.
Audiophiles will be throughly convinced that something sounds better because they paid more for it, when in reality there is no discernible difference in audio quality.
dpeter2045
Those double blind tests have been proven to be false. They switch every few seconds. It's akin to putting your hands in cold water, hot water and then warm. Check out UHF magazine and the way they do tests.
I agree with you except on headphones and speakers. The differences even with good stuff is quite huge. I mean, any F-R graph alone would suggest that the differences are huge.
watching this video after 11 years and it still sounds funny 🤣🤣🤣
The only thing I heard you mention in there that does have some merit to it is breaking in speakers. On some types of speakers, especially ones with drivers made of Kevlar, it's a good idea to just sit them in a closed room for a day to play some fairly loud music. It doesn't necessarily break them in, but it helps soften up the materials used so they act more naturally. You don't see that in many consumer grade speakers, though. Mostly in studio grade stuff.
i have watched this video about 10 + times every time it makes me smile and laugh so true and your expressions are priceless great video cheers
Digital cables, I definitely agree, ones and zeros are ones and zeros they get there or they don't. Analog cables however DO sound different. Inteference and noise absolutely can exist with analog cables and certain cables are better at minimizing that. Now there is absolutely a law of diminishing returns and you still don't need to spend thousands on an RCA interconnect. But I have tested cables that were $1 against cables that are $50, $250 and $1,000/ The difference between $1 to $50 is massive. The difference from $50 to $250 is large, the difference from $250 - $1,000 is laughable and not worth the cost.
You have to blind test to be sure.
Did you do a blind test? I would really appreciate an honest answer.
panulli4 is the question directed at me? If so the answer is yes I did. I sat and had someone change cables out to test me.
aaron phillips Thanks for the quick reply! Can you explain the setup of the test in more detail. Were you able to tell which cable was the cheapest by only listening?
I'm very sceptical about cables affecting the sound, and therefore interested in such experiments.
Thanks in advance!
I made 10$ rca cable and run the 20k$ system....sound the same 5k$ cable...there is different but which is better ? I couldn't tell. Iam saleman but hate snake oil , and my boss don't like me.
I've been working as an audio engineer in studios since 1977. That's 40 years... And you are RIGHT ON, Bub...
Thank you for speaking out with your skillset and experience. Glad to have you a part of the community. The audiofile community has gotten out of pocket for a long time and people eat it up like candy, it makes everything worse for the rest of us, it dumbs down the industry as a whole and these facts need to be put in front of people's faces.
A phool and his cash are soon parted.
And the people who says that if the amplifier is not perfectly leveled sounds bad ? How could it be ?
(LOL JOKE POST) It's Because the electrons need to flow at the same rate
A1eR What? Now I have heard everything.
I actually spat my coffee when you pulled up that first graph! Hilarious! :)
If only I had bought some $10,000 cables 13 years ago, I would be sitting on a gold mine. The amount of “play-in” time would make them sound like a million dollars.😂
I'm going to be honest ...I used to have a regular power cord on my tube amplifier and I have a hum sound ...I changed my power cord for something better and the hum disappear ...so for me I don't know for others ...but better cables does a difference in a system ... off course if you have a regular system and you want to spend double the price of your system for just speaker cables has no sense
Earth off?!
AMEN!!! Thank You very much. One of the greatest Anti-Audiophile BS Videos on the Planet.
Fantastic points made, thank you Sir. !
Just found this video and couldn't agree more Dave. I work in a commercial recording studio and we don't use any special cables, as long as they're balanced when they need to be they're going to sound fine. The things I've heard some musicians say about a certain cable or stuff like that is crazy. Even if it did make a slight change in the sound which it never does its not worth the crazy prices you would pay for something like that...
"Cubits per century"
I prefer "furlongs per fortnight"
femtoparsecs per microfortnight is another classic one
Definitely too much snake oil. Good solid engineering is all that is required. Keep LCR low, Teflon insulation, shielding if reqd, and proper gauge for the distance traveled. Geometry is a factor but not in the same sense these yahoos preach and deceive. In fact, I leave my speaker wire ends bare to eliminate those connections.
iamanoobiecheez Wow, you are quite presumptuous. If you really think spending big bucks is necessary to achieve good sound, more power to you. I've been in the hobby for 35 years. If you are so sure of your position, explain to me why the wire inside the speaker, terminated at the binding posts, is not 1000.00 per foot, and how adding stupid money wire to the other side of a lossy connector can improve the sound? (try hardwiring your wires to the crossover, thus eliminating one more connection, if you want better sound)
In addition, I did not say wires cannot make a difference. They can, and do, but there is a point where they just become tone controls based on the factors I mentioned. I use Nordost Cables, and was one of their very first customers along with Stan Warren. Flatline Super Gold, Speaker, and Acrotec Interconnects. Exceptional products with excellent measurements. Your reference to 1s and 0s is ill conceived. Digital is lossy, no matter how you shake it. For recordings not available on Vinyl, I listen to SACD if possible, and my Turntable, a Thorens TD-160 with Grado G+ cartridge is very competent.
My statement is derived from years of experience, hanging out in high end shops for countless hours, and many hours of critical listening to hundreds of high end components. I've built amps and loudspeakers, and measure their performance to ensure they are to spec, i.e., typical test procedures after assembly. I suspect you have most of your experience from reading. Ask John Curl or Read Marshall Leach's papers on Audio Engineering. You need solid engineering, mixed with careful parts selection, and ultimately, you need to listen, then, with solid engineering, know which components to tweak to reach the desired effect.
Based on your callous, rude, abusive, and obscene reply, coupled with your obvious lack of knowledge, you basically wasted your time, and presented yourself in a very negative light.
IamAnoobiecheez Thank you sir. Everyone here has a short memory. Remember when the CD came out? Perfect sound forever! But they were audiophiles who thought CD players sounded harsh and lacked detail but the critics said they were imagining it. It's just playing numbers. Perfect sound. Obviously these audiophiles didn't understand science.
Well these "so called stupid audiophiles" designers soon learned about the problems of jitter, badly designed low pass filters and bad sounding analog sections of compact disk players. If it wasn't for these "fools" imagining things we be stuck with horrible 1980's digital.
I've been very involved in high Fidelity for over 40 years, including behind the scenes. I am one of those who loudly cried foul with CDs. In fact, they still have a way to go. Boothroyd Stuart used listening skills, and solid engineering to "fix" CD playback fidelity. So, your comment is a bit one sided and, frankly, based on fantasy. Any gain in high fidelity was a result of listening and engineering. Snake Oil exists, and it is a serious black eye to High Fidelity Playback. The biggest problem is reviewers who continue to deceive the public due to advertising income.
As audio engineers and audiophiles, it is absolutely fundamental and important to keep in mind that there is no such thing as 'gear which improves sound quality.' Always and in all cases, we can only strive to achieve 'solutions which do less to worsen sound quality.' This means that upon introduction of some piece of gear, if we do in fact perceive sound quality improvements, it is because the introduced gear addresses something else in the system which is already faulty
Love this video. Watched it pretty much every month for the last year, always makes me laugh
These audiophools remind me of religites who claim to KNOW that which they cannot possibly know. Sad and profoundly silly.
"Belief is meaningful only to the believer, knowledge is meaningful and accessible to all."
I have been the Audio trade since the early 80s... Man you are spot on!.... Monster Cable Made of cheap Chinese wire. JUNK. Another one is Kimber Cable.. Audiophiles can be so easy to rip off, more money spent means better sound..hahaha. More bragging rites at the water cooler. Seen this with Polk spks, Had many customers listen to many other brands, but still buy polk cause co workers have them.. To funny...Boomers and their ego, gotta love it.
I thought polk is the cheap one?
Dunno about now - but in the late 80s / early 90s - I think they were one of the best speakers. I had a "4"(?) which I traded up to a 5jr. Pricy, but not overpriced. Fantastic sound reproduction. Whatever Polk garbage that came with HP(?) computers was utter crap. No idea about quality since then, because mine still sound great. :) My $0.02 worth.
breakerbroke23 Audiophiles avoid Monster Cable and Polk speakers so you have no clue of reality. You are criticizing audiophiles and you know nothing about them. The people buying the crap you sold in the eighties were just people buying stereos, not audiophiles. I have found that the biggest critics of audiophiles have the worst sounding gear and the smallest paycheques.
ChurchOfTheHolyMho You traded up to the 5jr? That was like the 2nd cheapest speaker they made at the time. What did you have before, the 4? You need to hear what has been produced since then. Great speakers can be had under $200 today designed by some of the top guys in the industry. I like vintage stuff as well but it should never be in your primary system.
breakerbroke23 kimber Kable is hardly junk and i would wager you have no idea from where the cable is drawn and annealed. Also your appraisal of Chinese quality is misplaced. Chinese manufacturing quality in recent years is second to none. Most everything is made there today with North American companies having their own personel
running the facility.
The term "Audiophile" is thrown around freely. You probably have never met one. They are educated about the gear they buy and about music in general. To believe they are easily separated from their money and are easily duped is pure fantasy. I consider myself one and I definitely have more knowledge of acoustics and audio history than you. I have designed and built Home Theaters for almost 30 years and have worked in the industry in one way or another since the late 70's.
That's very very entertainment! Good work David!
I've been bing watching your visa and this was like, wow, classic Dave
Wow! I really enjoyed this vlog! I’m an audiophile and have payed ridiculous prices for cabling and other stuff. Actually I have a question about a digital ethernet stream. Something nobody seems to understand. People pay thousands of dollars or euros for the best streamers with the lowest noise levels. Yes it is digital, but it matters a lot. It’s not about the signal itself, because it’s bitperfect. It’s about the noise traveling with the stream. Noise that’s created by our own routers, switches and powersupply’s. It really disturbs the soundstage, the harshness of the voice and much more.
Even with optical devices. They seems to convert electrical noise into light and light back into electrical noise with the stream.... it’s true. Please help me to separate this noise from the stream just before it enters our systems.
2020 now, look at all the audio-fool millennials spending thousands on vinyl equipment believing it is a superior format to digital...
Thank you for verifying why I got rid of vinyl, and switched to CD's many years ago!
Well that's a bit different. Vinyl and other analogue media have a particular sound to them that some people like. Usually it's described as "warm." In this case, it's not a bullshit term thrown around -- it specifically means that the higher frequencies (maybe around 8 kHz and up) are slightly attenuated.
@@CorvusPrudens that's true, vinyl does have their signature. but going back to analog is really a step backwards. Anyway there are digital recordings made out of vinyl and I think that should be the right way to go (if you're into vinyl sound)
The move back to vinyl is less about the audio itself and more about the experience. People like getting to have bookshelves of music to look at and be proud of. They like getting to interact with the machine that plays their music in an intimate way, going through the motions of manipulating the arm & placing down the reader head in the right place. Even the crackling sound that comes from the imperfections in the discs is a feature to collectors. I think most vinyl heads know that digital is a much better way to get the absolute highest fidelity (especially since basically all modern vinyl tracks have spent some time as a digital file anyways!), they're just chasing a bit of nostalgia.
@@matthewsylvester5835 many people know that, but do most? Ask around, there are tons of people who truly believe that vinyl inherently sounds better than CDs.
That blue jeans cable letter is priceless. :D Thanks for sharing.
You are the man! Love your channel
I know fools like this. A fool and his money so the saying goes!
You can't convince some of these idiots.
I can only agree with the claim that tube amps sound better. They may not be cleaner on the distortion analyzer, but to the human ear, in my experience, all else being equal, same speakers, same source, a tube amp has a nicer sound.
@12voltvids That's second harmonic distortion for you, a pleasing colouration to the sound but not transparent to the input.
So tube amps sound "nicer" but anything else crosses the line? I'm glad you make up the rules about what constitutes a fool.
carlos oliveira There's a measurable difference with tube amps and it's subjective. Cables are foolish and a mere placebo effect
CODMarioWarfare How can a measurable difference be subjective? Ninety percent of solid state amps measure virtually the same but don't sound the same. If you can't tell the difference between amps, let alone cables, then either your system is not of reference quality or you have cement ears. Many an engineer has gone on to start a company building either electronics or cables. They will tell you they didn't have a clue what to measure when they started and they admit that measurements still don't tell the entire story. One day perhaps but not yet.
David Griffin Why not add 2nd harmonic distortion to all amplifiers and make them all sound nice? It's been tried and doesn't work. If that's all there was to making a good sounding amp, they would all sound great. There are a thousand ingredients to making a good sounding cake and a broad statement like yours is meaningless.
Repeating "this is ridiculous" and "everybody knows..." multiple times is not an argument.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" - Mark Twain
wow...i could not have said it better very good video man ....hope you can put up some more ..well done good job
Another engineer talking about sound. Question. How much MUSIC do you listen to? Not through a mic feed or through headphones, but in a home environment. What kind of music do you listen to? Do you reference real instruments with real people playing them or a reconstructed or re-imagined one in an recreated soundfield? I reference 3-400 musical bands I've heard. I reference the 20 or so orchestras I've heard. I reference the thousands of solo voices I've stood next to. I reference the thousands of acoustic instrumentalists I've stood next to while they've played. I reference the 20 years I played and sang in different bands; real instruments in real spaces. Those are my standards for listening in a home environment. I want playback to match as closely as possible my experience in MUSIC. This is why I am an audiophile, and this is why so many others are as well.
The video wasn't hating on audiophiles, just the ones who will buy into all of the marketing bs that doesn't actually change the quality of sound.
Ben Woof
There is only one perfect arbiter of sound between 20-20k hz, and that's the human ear/brain combination. Every machine or diagnostic equipment use for audio is just an attempt to replicate what's being heard. If a machine doesn't hear what mine and some other very educated ears hear, then that equipment hasn't been invented yet. Jitter distortion is a prime example of distortion noted by audiophiles for years until the proper evaluating equipment was found and utilized.
What did that have to do with anything
Ben Woof
Have you ever been to an audio salon where a properly set up system is on display? If not, go to one, ask questions with an open minded view, and listen. You will find that EVERYTHING has an effect on sound reproduction from the source, from every piece of equipment used, to the pile of the rug, to the humidity in the room, to type of sound diffusers used, to the power supply, to the time of day; everything. Those products which you now believe are marketing BS, many of which will make a difference. Also understand, because YOU can't hear a difference doesn't mean a difference can't be heard. A difference that is clearly discernible, repeatable, and quantifiable.
Obviously things like the humidity and the types of materials used in the walls and the floor, but what is under fire right now is the false advertising. That paying $1,000 for a 6ft long power cord will change the whole sound of the system.
This is true of MANY industries! I love it!
Brilliant rant. You have a new fan.
I remember my first Yamaha amp with DSP from famous nightclubs where they measured the dimensions of these places but I guess these dimensions were sent to basic reverb not modelling or convoluted reverb. But you only hear reverb if you are at the back....
What you think about Mogami,Spectraflex or Evidence audio cables?Prices are higher then regular cables,but as I saw maximum prices are about little above 100$ for 10ft xlr/trs etc. cables.
Different types of interconnect, home made, borrowed from a hi fi dealer, bought used etc. Sound different to each other and can be used to tailor the sound of your system.
Wonder why the algorithm put this old video on my feed? Either way, Dave is so calm and quiet in this video -- it's strange to watch!
When very young and broke I acquired 2 3in1 systems. One had large cheap 12" full range speakers in thick chipboard boxes, the other tinny 4" full range speakers in thin particle board. A trip to tricky dikies I bought 2x $10 crossovers and some 10 amp lighting wire and wired em up just sitting the small speakers on top of the big ones with the crossovers outside.
My audiophile mate laughed his head off, then I played a record, his jaw dropped.
They sounded better than most $500 speakers.
I seem to come back every year or so, and watch it. Have seen like 5 times, and just so occurred to me, that the IEC cable is technically directional... ;)
10 years on and still as relevant today as ever..
i will add about the cryogenic freezing of metal, when we are talking metalworking, cryo treatment after hardening before final machining adds stability, among other enhancements, adding toughness and strength, however, im not sure what this would do for audio cables, typically copper or even silver
10+ years later, and as true as ever... Time to revisit this topic!?
I"m looking for that woody tone. Cryogenic treated wall sockets are the first step at perfecting it! :)
My appreciation to Dave is even greater after this video.
9:50 I totally agree. It's the placebo effect on patients (ie audiophools).
Wonderful stuff! Good for you...love it...
Still, expensive hifi sets are generally pleasant for the eyes, not only the ears.