Stupid Crap Audiophiles Believe... at least SOME of them...
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
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0:00 Start
0:31 Intro
1:28 Sponsored Content Squarespace
3:01 All DACs sound the same
6:09 All amps sound the same
7:56 Crossover Components Don't Matter
9:38 Speakers should have a flat Frequency Response
13:23 Think for Yourself
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Have I got a bone to pick with you Mister! Actually I don't. I just don't want you to experience disappointment when you're expecting folks to get all worked up about your video and not enough of us actually do. We all have selective hearing, just ask our wives! Seriously though, if you're male and over 50, statistically a wife's hearing will be better than her partner's. A walk in nature with my wife proves this for me. "Can you hear that high pitch bird call" - Me: "No, what bird".
I remember how lousy a portable CD player in the 80's sounded when you outputted it RCA into a home stereo. Pretty sure it was due to the bottom of the shelf DAC inside the player. Man, do we ever need to find the middle ground more than ever, especially this weekend. Great video! Onward to finding a speaker that matches my sleep number (hearing loss profile).
Great seeing you sing Happy Birthday to your Brother. Happy days. All the best.
Great you brought this up. There is a forum where they have someone doing great measurements. I enjoy that and respect it because yes measurements does matter. But they also say stooped sh.. like all DACs sound like if they measure perfect Wich sadly means they are hearing impaired 😂. Good work Randy
I think I can sum it up this way: There are some people who still believe the earth is flat.
If you sum it up that quickly then it’s no fun tho! 😊
It is flat all the way around..
I could lecture for weeks on the little details of speaker design
It is!
@@larrygaines7462I'm using this 😂
enjoyed the video, one factor you forgot to mention on the speaker discussion is the listening room variable, and thank God we have speakers with different characteristics as we compensate for our hearing our listening room and most importantly what sounds best to us!
Exactly
Thank the speaker designers*
DSP too. Wait - too many Greg's on this comment :)
Smooth response is far more important than a flat response. Good video. Thx.
A flat response is smoother than smooth can ever be.
Define smooth. Flat has a definition.
@@TriAmpHiFi he cant, because smooth is flat. Any deviation from flat isnt smooth no more.
THANK YOU FOR talking about flat frequency response. It’s like telling everyone to just have vanilla icecream. Unfortunately I eat too much icecream.
iLikeVanillaItsTheFinestOfTheFlavors
Even still, there are hundreds of different types of vanilla ice cream, many of which taste drastically different from each other
Still, it sounds a bit weird to me if a reviewer judges a speaker (or anything else in audio) while based upon his own, individual hearing loss..?
We also need some objective bases to start and compare with. Starting from there, knowing thyself (i.e. your own preferences and/or the characteristics of your hearing loss), you can find your own way.
Or use EQ? There 're things like hardware equalizers, (mini-)DSP's and software like Equalizer APO. With a Umik microphone kit you can adjust for your listening room as well.
The biggest difference in sound, for me, is my mood…
I like flat measuring speakers. So for me its not a stupid idea. Also flat speakers are easier to equalize and play with. It's like a blank canvas.
On metal core inductor coils in speaker crossovers - the physics of what is happening is well known. The windings create a magnetic field, and the orientation of the field (i.e. the north/south poles of the magnetic field) is determined by the direction the signal voltage is flowing. If you use your right hand with the 4 fingers curved in the direction the voltage is flowing - your thumb is pointing toward the north pole of the magnetic field. This is called the Right Hand Rule.
Since music is an AC voltage - the direction of flow reverses 180 degrees at two times the frequency of the signal. This means the magnetic field around the inductor coil has to reverse "instantly" at twice the frequency of the music at that moment.
This matters *because* ferrous metal "holds" the magnetic field for a short period of time - it has a delay lag, and the magnetic field lingers - and this "smears" the music.
The reason that metal core inductors are used is, they don't require as many windings to achieve the desired induction value. Since the wire used to make the coil is shorter, it can be a smaller gauge - so this saves money. An air core coil requires longer piece of wire, and therefore needs to be a larger gauge to keep the same DCR.
Using an air core inductor coil has a *very* audible difference in the sound you hear; because they do not have magnetic eddy currents.
At what frequency does the field hangover audibly affect the signal?
Hysteresis
Thanks, Neil. You taught me something.
@@FrankyGee3 You're quite welcome!
@@chemania1 Right - and the thing to remember too, is that a music signal has *many* frequencies all at once, so the complexity of all the interactions within an inductor coil is exponentially greater.
Actually, about the speaker response, you’re absolutely correct. And furthermore, why would you have to have a system that the response was flat out to 30 or 40 kHz ? You’re just going to piss off your dog !😉
Great information. This is why people need to listen to things for themselves to see and come up with there own opinions while still taking in information that great reviewers like Randy provides.
The man the legend never fails me
Everything sounds different. Your ears will adjust and learn to enjoy just about anything if the thing just works. Only audiophiles act as if they have perfect audio memory.
I believe you on DACs. I just updated my Modi3+ to Modi Multibit 2 and the diff is HUGE.
DACs don't sound the same, that's for sure, but once you reach a point of decent quality, diminishing returns hits hard!
Those $500-1000 DACs barely improve the sound compared to the $100-200 DACs.
The improvement is like 5-15% and a lot of them are sidegrades rather than upgrades.
Upgrading Amps on the other hand are 2-3 times more noticeable than DACs.
I think a more accurate description of some people’s position on dacs is that dacs that measure well well sound the same. I don’t think they would expect the echo dac and an smsl dac to sound the same.
Spot on, I got back into Hifi a year or so ago. DACs were built in CD players before, changing them wasn't much of a thing. So I purchased a used Bluesound Vault and hooked it up to my NAD receiver, both quality components, initially using the DAC in the Bleusound. It sound differents using RCAs, Optic to the NAD and Coax digital to the NAD, the last may say more about the cable. The optical cable and the NAD's DAC sounds best. In any event it does matter. I'm not a trained listener, musician or any sort of musician.
It is the placebo effect that some think if it cost more it must be better. No matter what the price if it sounds good it is good.
Well said Randy. Made me smile every time you said "Dumb"!!😂 People need to get back to thinking for themsleves and forming their own research based opinions!!
Agree with every word.
I have to say thank you so much Randy🤘🏻, this kind of videos help me a lot ✌🏻
Every Dac I have tried in my rig sounds different. They were all good but some just didn’t fit with my gear. synergy is key.
I would counter the flat frequency response point in saying that the goal of most well engineered speakers is to measure flat or smooth anechoically. There is tons of research out there over the years by Floyd Toole and others that proves this. This makes the speaker easy to EQ to a listener's taste after the fact in room. Buying a speaker because of its deviations from flat producing a "signature" sound just seems silly to me. You are essentially paying money for an EQ curve which could just be implemented for free via room correction or EQ software after the fact. So in summary, buy well engineered speakers with a smooth frequency response on and off axis and EQ to taste as needed.
I agree, flat obviously better for exactly the reasons you give. However, there are other speaker characteristics than frequency response that are of equal importance when choosing a speaker. Sound dispersion characteristics come to mind. Here I am thinking more of omni vs dipole vs box rather that off axis response, which admittedly differ largely in off axis response, but to such a radical degree, that it's a different conversation than I think you meant to convey.
The definition of hi fidelity is a reproduction of music to it's most accurate recording. Flat is the most acccurate. You can equalize it or change it but that's not the definition of hi fidelity.
I have four dacs, four amps and seven sets of audiophile headphones and they all sound different. I also have several sets of non audiophile grade headphones. Go listen to some Beats by Dre, then go listen to HE 4XX and tell me thry sound the same.
Yup..go from even well regarded headphones like the Sen’s 650’s to LCDX 2021 Creators Edition..( I did ) 🥳
are you saying dacs have as much influence on your sound as a headphone or speaker?
Yes, in a digital system ..the quality of the output stage , power supply and output options ( balanced/ rca) along with input and controls ..they all add something to the quality or lack there of.
You have gained a lot of insight and a lot of wisdom in the course of your UA-cam career. It is a great thing to watch, and the better you get, the better it is for all of us.
Damn that’s a good comment 😊
Swapping out the crossover with expensive parts to flatten the frequency response and declaring it to "be better" is 100% opinion. Many people will not like taking out the characteristics that make their speakers sound like Polks or Klipsch or KEF and their opinion is also 100% valid.
Randy, I know you have some playlists for testing gear, but what songs specifically would you use to spot the differences in DACs? I’m someone who has struggled to hear the difference between the 5 DACs I’ve tried, but I’d like to spend some more time on it.
Silly and fun intro! Thanks again for another useful video, delivered with passion! 🙃 Everyone who hasn't subscribed, do a solid for Mr. Cheap Audio Extraordinaire!
Brilliant! And I’m not even British. Oooooh they gonna be mad at you! I’m here for it. Keep it up man! Good stuff.
I’m going to an audio show to check out ghselli based in part to you introducing them. Picked up a WiiM Pro+. Good stuff.
Hell I may by you a cup of Joe!
I'm DAC curious. Is that 80 dollar DAC better than the internal DAC in my $600 Onkyo AVR?
Thanks Randy...
Great question. I have asked this before. My old Onkyo featured a 24/192 dac onboard.
Thanks for your content! Regarding speaker cables I think the number one difference people hear between two reasonable quality cables is first in their head and second maybe simply oxidation causing resistance at the connectors being cleaned when removing the old cables and putting the new ones in. Other claims about speaker cables need to eliminate all the other possible variations including the placebo effect that our brains introduce. Show me some legitimate double blind studies of speaker cables and how people with the very best hearing can accurately identify the better cables each time. No shade on anybody who wants to pay as much as they want for their audio jewelry but justifying it by saying that they can hear amazing difference needs to be demonstrated in ways that can eliminate the individual bias and expectations.
Lastly, because someone takes the middle ground between personal anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence does not make them find the truth! Truth that comports with reality must be reliably and repeatedly demonstrated under strict controls.
What up Cheap! Just checking in on my fav audiophile dude. Almost to 200K! Keep it up Randy, good stuff
Different phones sound different, let alone getting into stand alone DAC's. I am shocked at how many do say they all sound the same.....
I guess there are a lot of people with damaged hearing???
Yah. Back when I tested a HK AVR 320 and a Yamaha HTR 5560 among others, I could hear a huge difference between them. The HK had much more powerful bass, especially when driving bookshelf speakers and no sub. HK had less hissing, too.
A flat frequency sweep is actually important for a 5.1/7.1 or above system for home audio (movies). For 2/2.1 music,, I agree, it's a personal choice and also depends on the music you listen to also.
I bought a 200on huge tube down firing SVS subwoofer roughly 20 years ago . It had way more controls than what I was used to. It also had 3 tubes to pull in air. It came with foam so you had the option of filling 2 of them and get down to 16hz, which 8s bass you just feel in your chest, so good for movies, not music but thought I had it close enough but was roughly 10db above at roughly 25 to 30jz. Watched a movie, explosion, SVS was fine and handled with zero issues but I honestly thought something had actually exploded even though I was watching ammo or, it was LOUD. Didn't bother the SVS though but I do think it's more important for movies although most systems have some auto setup function and come with a mic for calibration now.
Randy, THANK YOU THANK YOU for doing this episode and continuing to battle the Dunning-Kruger effect. I've worked with audio for career and play for over 40 years and Ive heard the same comments all along. I tell them to get a new stylus for the turntable in their 10', 1970 Philco "entertainment center".
By now it probably also needs new power supply caps.
@@1mctous I think you missed his point.
@@jeffreylehman1159 Yes I know he's referring to a fixed mindset. However some people still love the old stereo consoles.
So you're telling me that it's worth upgrading from the Sith Audio "Black" flashlight you showed us to the "Red" for the additional clarity?
difference is like night and when you turn it on at night... night and day
What are you talking about on the dac topic, the 8 dollar apple usb c dac is perfectly transparent like all other expensive 1000$+ dacs.
Well I took your advise and others on the positive reviews of the Geshelli dac and ordered it. Its the J2S with the Sparkos opamp on the outputs of the rca, with AK4493 chip.
I do not know how anyone could think all Dacs sound the same! That is like thinking all speakers sound the same! Wow!
Thank you Randy
Right Randy..
it’s all a matter of degree.. in any given system, there’s going to be a quality level whereby going any further in “quality” with a particular component of the system will not yield any better sonic result, so for any given system, the cables, dacs, amps, or whatever, when changed, can alter the perception and viewpoint regarding the original component and its replacement.
Edit: Once that happens, the actual weakest link would need to be identified to reach for the next level of sonic bliss (probably speakers lol).
Hi, nice presentation of this topic 😉
About the cable part. Cables are important. You have to chose them according to power ratings and length. If you hide them in drywall or ceilings.
Length : the longer the more loss. So you chose smaller Gage (or bigger mm² in the rest of the world). Capacitance is also a thing, if your cables are more than 5m long...
So fore capacitance you have to chose speaker rated cable. The insulation material is has capacity than standard line cords (rated for up to 60Hz).
Then the copper, some is better conductive than other. But it is cheaper to get a bigger cable than for example a low oxygen one. Same effect. Multi core is better, less skin effect so lower resistance.
I'm talking about speaker cables here, low impedance amp output and speakers.
Cables for the low level signals are much more important but until a certain level. Here the most important part is capacitance. The lower the better. If it is not rated on your cable it is probably crap.
If high frequencies are important to you don't by 1$ cables, but 1000$ ones are overkill.
I'm in Europe : I use 4mm² or 6mm² speaker cables. I tend to minimize length to 3 or 4 m (I have also active speakers, here the below is more important).
For audio signal I use pro mike cable. Thicker core lower capacitance. This works for me. Less crossover that is good for spatialization of the sound stage.
For even less crossover use 2 signal cables, one for each channel.
For longer distances you should use symmetric connections (above 5m signal cable length), not for audio quality but for noise reduction. For me audio quality is the way the audio spectrum is transmitted in the cable. The noise reduction the way parasites are picked up by the cables. 2 completely different topics the latter not related to quality bot is more an annoyance to avoid. But or brain is better in filtering parasitic sound than correcting frequency response.
If you are hiding cables in the walls or ceiling good quality is also important in the way you don't want to pull new cables every now and then. Especially in the US where you just dump cables in there with no piping what so ever (obligation of piping in Europe).
Have a big gap between power lines and signal cables!!!
This is my opinion as a former electronic engineer, so every one can take it as he feels it
______________________________________________________________________________________
Great video, Mr. Cheapaudioman, you should be nominated for a Nobel Prize in audio common sense, sadly so missing these days!
Haha. This did make me smile. I am quite new to the audio side of listening as always used high end av amps etc. well now I have a streamer dac and amp etc I have noticed a lot of difference. Even down to the cables to inter connect. But again like said it’s a personal experience as we all have our own opinions and what we like and I think that’s the most important but… individual opinions. No one is right or wrong as such. It’s just what they prefer to listen to
All equipment sounds the same unless you have audiophile cables that are isolated on cable risers. 😂😂 You have made my day and weekend with this presentation, brother. BTW, my Crown certainly doesn't sound the same as my Marantz or Rotel. 😂😂😂
Thanks for the video! Some of your ads have volumes so loud that I tear my headphones off because it’s faster than turning down the volume on my computer. You probably have no control over it but perhaps a warning to your viewers cause it is ridiculous and painful. Damn UA-cam!
I've never heard an audiophile say DACs, Amps, and crossovers sound the same. It's the anti-audiophile that says those
things. Audiophiles insist that everything sounds different, and the more you spend, the better your system sounds. And the speaker/amp/subwoofer/cable etc you own is crap compared to theirs.
Probably your best post to date Randy. Really enjoyed it.
Thanks for the video. How sound is perceived varies from person to person and room to room. Measurements by machines are helpful but we don’t all hear as well as the machine. I believe it’s important to listen to a piece of new equipment with your system in your listening room and decide what sounds good to you. That’s why I Only buy equipment from companies or retailers that let you buy and try and return for free if needed. Rock and rant on Randy!
Still new to the whole audio thing. But now know enough to know I don't know anything. Anyway I'm happy with what I have and I just enjoy the music. :) Love your channel!
Most of your observations are correct, however I don't think you know the backstory about "speakers should have a flat frequency". Back in the day, Dr. Floyd Toole (author of "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" and former VP at Harman Audio) was in charge of the National Research Council in Canada and he conducted a number of tests with a wide variety of listeners (non-audiophiles) to find out what people preferred when listening to a speaker. His research found that when comparing two or more speakers, listeners perceived the speaker having the flattest frequency response as subjectively sounding "better". This research helped launched the Canadian speaker industry (Paradigm and PSB are still around but back then there were at least a half dozen very succesful brands, many of which were eventually acquired by others). This is the reason why audiophiles look for speakers with a flat frequency response - the research shows they sound better (even to non-audiophiles). Certainly room size and shape, speaker placement, etc. all play an important role, but everything else being equal, flattest frequency response will sound better. FYI, Dr. Floyd Toole has a PhD in Applied Physics from the University of London and has won many awards from the Audio Engineering Society (AES) for his contributions. So looking for a loudspeaker having a flat frequency is neither stupid nor crap because it is backed by large amounts of data using many listeners.
I remember reading a little book when I was a teenager entitled 'How to Lie with statistics' I recommend it.
Can you use the Chord Mojo as a Dac for Cambridge Audio MXN10?
Great video. All true in audio as well as in life. Keep up the great reviews
In Korea I walked into my local HIFI store looking for a 3.5 jack cable for my focal headphones. The store told me they didn't carry Focal products, and told me to look elsewhere. I said "No no, I am fine with any 3.5 cable." and half the people in room stopped and stared at me. The staff looked shocked and slightly panicked. One other customer who overheard me actually glared in my direction. I then realized I had offended them, even when they didn't carry Focal products and could make a sale to me today. I insisted they do though, and they begrudgingly went into the back and got a cable from Final audio that they had, all the while complaining to me that it won't sound the same. It did sound different! Because the original was broken.
Back in the 70’s, Julian Hirsch of the magazine Stereo Sound famously said all amplifiers sounded the same. I stopped reading their reviews at that point. How ridiculous. 🙄
The scary thing about this stupid crap is it predates the internet. Back in the print era there were the letter to the editors in audio magazines that well.. The internet has given some people a bigger megaphone.
Re speakers should have a flat frequency response? I can see or appreciate your POV but i will suggest that speakers with a flat frequency response are probably easier to eq adjust to personal taste than speakers with a more defined personality. True you could buy a speaker that matches your taste and hearing profile, but tastes often change over time. With the ability to shape eq i woud think flat response speakers would be better at modeling a different sound signature.
" you may think i'm calling your kid ugly, you may think i'm calling you dumb." that's why I'm here....comedy gold.
It's funny, and I'm sure I am not the only one that does this. First, this video is listed as end-to-end as 16:42, but to me it's well over 45 minutes due to rewinding for notes and thoughts on the subject. The second, I end up having up to 10 - 15+ explorer/chrome/etc. tabs open while watching to get more details on the details CAM is going over. I LOVE it!
I suspect most folks here are aware of the conflation of flat frequency response and pleasing sound. Audiophile culture is historically built around pursuing empirical accuracy of devices used to record and reproduce audio - not the subjective pursuit of what sounds good. To paraphrase the late John Dunlavy: if we understand what matters, measure it accurately, then engineer accordingly, the reproduction should match what was recorded - whether that is subjectively good or bad is outside the scope of the discussion. Playing music through accurate speakers and accommodating the listeners taste in song or EQ are all different things. Most audiophiles I’ve met understand this and acknowledge that speakers don’t have to be perfectly accurate to sound good. In fact, there is no such thing as a perfectly accurate speaker or stereo system. Some of the confusion is generated by “audiophiles” who forget the distinction and overstep, to dictate what is subjectively good for others. Nobody says you have to drive yourself crazy pursuing technical accuracy in your gear in order to appreciate music; but you can if you want and there’s nothing wrong with that, either. And some of the confusion is generated by marketing hype around the word “audiophile” to the point that the term is now effectively meaningless. But hey, if it generates clicks to malign the label, I guess the term still has some value. 🙂
As for the amps sounding the same, this is partially true. Overdriven amps or amps which need servicing, do sound different. About 35 years ago, Peter Aczel, founder of the magazine, the AUDIO CRITIC, said that all amps that are driven below their maximum output, and working properly properly, uptp their original specs, with no servicing issues, will sound identical, IF their volume levels are matched within 0.1 dB.
Good job Randy !!!
Great video! I like to tell people: "When your beliefs are challenged, take the challenge!" I have a big huge greatroom with vaulted ceilings and hard floors. I'm looking into building a sound system that would sound good in this room. Starting with research into sound absorption lol! Great channel!
Good luck with that. I have a similar room and everything I tried sounded crappy. I finally gave up an use headphones for TV listening in that room and put my music system in a different room. I wasn't willing to do the room treatment that would have been required to make the room audio friendly.
One problem I found years ago was going from dealer to dealer trying to compare. The other is commission sales dudes that equate dollars to quality.
I do know of one dealer who doesn't pay commissions .
Funny how no Audiophile thinks that way at all.
What!? That David Lee Roth concert in 1987 messed up my ears? What?
Oh I remember reading a forum post years ago where a guy was trying to convince everyone that all amps sound the same. He wrote an entire thesis with mathematical equations, technical mumbo jumbo, the works. It was insane.
That guy is still out there....
I have a beresford dac. It sounds smooth in its stock form, works well with edgy equiptment. If you swap the texas instruments op amp in the line out stage to a different one it doesnt sound smooth anymore, quite lively and detailed, soundstage grows, bass is reduced slightly. Thats just a tiny chip worth £3.50 🤷🏻♂️
How about this one. Big debate out there about cd transports all sounding the same. Its the dac that makes the good, or bad sound quality. What do you think Randy? Oh and I agree with everything you said. Especially the hearing bit. We are sensitive to different sounds. I know people who hate anything to do with metal. They say it's all garbled noise. The perception of sound is down to the individual. Think you do a great job. Like your openness and honesty.
Re crossover components, they don't matter if you don't have a cross-over in your speaker, i.e. use a single driver, full-range speaker. Amp - speaker, straight line. Yes, they exist, and I love mine. Fun video. Thanks!
Nice thanks
They’re mindless automatons !
Wouldn't say all DACs sound the same but if you listen to the top 20 DACs in ASR's tests they are all far better than human hearing, making it likely impossible to hear any difference. Obviously there are bad designs still..
The better test, by which I mean more sensitive, is I think engagement. I find with similar sounding gear there is usually one that is more engaging and that keeps me listening longer rather than getting fidgety. I almost never can identify why that one is more engaging, but the preference usually persists over time. I have experienced this with DACs, amps, preamps and vinyl vs digital. In all cases, I end up wanting to listen to one piece of gear in preference to the other even though I can't pass an A/B test of the gear.
Beyond human hearing that cannot have a sound. Rather they lack coloration.
Thanks! Good video
Preach 👏
Moved my Paradigm Monitor 7s to the family room and brought the Yamaha NS 6390s into my office. Finally got to experience listening fatigue after about 30 minutes with the Yamahas. Didn’t think that was a real thing before.
Now running Emotiva B 1+s after your Tracy Chapman review and can listen for hours and hours.
P.S. I prefer German chocolate cake.
Purchased the Fosi V3 based on the generally glowing reviews and I... don't like it. Sounds anemic and lifeless in my system. It's my first and only Chi-fi Class D amp so maybe it's simply a case of unrealistic expectations not being met. At least it was a relatively inexpensive experiment!
I was very pleasantly surprised by mine. Works great with Wharfdale Diamonds and Gale 3010s as a budget bedroom amp. Works well with CD and streaming Bluetooth. Very smooth none tiring sound. I could not ask for more really.
@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 I was surprised a bit as well - not sure what I was expecting but I am underwhelmed with what I am hearing. To be fair, I may be spoiled by the two amps I use in my home, a Yamaha AS-1200 and a DIY clone of a Leben CS300 that a friend made for me - and his amps/hifi components are insanely well made.
I tried to stress that the V3 didn’t have the low end of the bt20a and gave some examples of what would be a good use case with it. I agree. On thin speakers it will sound very thin
@@cheapaudioman 👍Randy. No idea if I have "thin" speakers (the speakers I used with the Fosi are DIY Bagby Adelphos with all Jantzen crossover components) but the amp did sound really thin.
@@nesutoneko I too have excellent amps that I am comparing the V3 against. Admittedly I have not used it in my main system or with a turntable, only in my bedroom set up with small bookshelf speakers. For this I would say it’s ideal, not thin or lifeless in my experience.
Cool let’s see if this becomes another one of your top vids!!! Almost to 200k too, let’s go!!!🎉❤
I like the ‘tough love’ attitude here too, good stuff as always Randy
You mad bruh? 😉
I thought I wasn’t mad but ur right, now I’m punching holes in the wall, thanks wife!😂
Great show Randy
I am 62 years old and I must have some hearing loss. I can’t tell the difference between the few DACS I have tried. That is probably down to my ears and not the equipment. I am sure can hear a difference 😊
Others
I'm 63 and I can't either. But, I find with similar sounding gear there is usually one that is more engaging and that keeps me listening longer rather than getting fidgety. I almost never can identify why that one is more engaging, but the preference usually persists over time. I have experienced this with DACs, amps, preamps and vinyl vs digital. In all cases, I end up wanting to listen to one piece of gear in preference to the other even though I can't pass an A/B test of the gear.
Please don't recommend Fosi Audio amps. I bought the BT-30D Pro and in under 2 months, the subwoofer circuit started failing. For a short period of time, you could reset the amp (power off and power on) and sub would work again. now when you power it on it makes horrid noises like it is killing the Yamaha 10" sub. I looked at a warranty service but shipping costs basically make this a disposable piece. Anyone considering purchasing Fosi products please be aware of this.
Interesting....I have 4 different Fosi amps for over 3 years now, used daily and all have performed flawlessly with no issues.
Not sure who's anecdotal evidence out-weighs whose...but there you have it.
So close to 200K !!!
As far as amps go, I am lucky enough to own a McIntosh MC300. The difference between it and the power section in my Pioneer Elite receiver is staggering. Honestly, with any other amp I've tried as well. The MC300 also weighs nearly 100lbs. I am currently using an Adcom, and it sounds like Walmart grade comparatively.
Try the Fosi V3. Many reviewers praise it and it pays itself back by saving on your electricity bill.
Kidding😅
McIntosh 100% end game. I live an hour away from the McIntosh factory and that is as close as I will be to owning one. Bummer. Enjoy yours!
@@welderfixer it is the end game, but I'm not using it because I'm going to sell it. I had to ween myself off. It's still depressing. I trade some work for a rich client for it. I used to have a preamp and cd player too. Sounded like the total endgame with my garage sale B&W DM620s.
@@MikePowersTSIG I wish I was in the financial position to buy the MC300 from you. I am sure I would enjoy it for a very long time. Currently, The wonderful NAD 214 amp that was given to me is such a joy to listen to everything through. I haven't had any of the speakers I've played on the NAD sound bad. I think the amp is the key item in a system. I wish you all the very best, Kevin
Overkill amplifiers do have certain advantages, one being a power supply section that has the reserve energy to push momentary transients out properly.
It drives me crazy that there are people on this flat Earth who genuinely believe that all amps sound the same. People will believe anything these days!🤨
If someone thinks all DACs sound the same, they only need to listen to a multibit DAC once to understand the error of their ways.
My YAMAHA Aventage A3070 (2017) with his built-in ESS 9026 dac pro chip are enough qualify (in direct mode) to drive my Musical-Fidelity M8500 S amp ?? How many percent gain if i buy a GOOD preamp-dac and sell my Yamaha ??
All amps / preamps sound different ( some more than others ), Go listen to a vintage Marantz / Sansui and then go listen to a Vintage Yamaha which sounds completely different. As for DAC's as you move up the chain the difference might be minimal but its there.. Going from an Airport Express to Airport Express + Schiit Modi+ I noticed a diff.. Was it huge? No but it was definitely present. Comparing the Schiit Modi + to Topping E50 I couldnt really tell a diff and i listened to a ton of music on a pretty high end setup.. Both sounded great to be honest. But going from a built in DAC to any number of external DACs was def an improvement.. Even with redbook cd quality it still sounded better with an external DAC. A wise man told me, we listen to music and not specs, sometimes you just have to listen for yourself.... Keep up the great content!
See. This is state's evidence number one as to why I stopped referring to myself as an audiophile. So much of that community comports itself like a junior high school cafeteria food fight. Life's too short for that bs. So I rest comfortably within the audio enthusiast realm and am perfectly happy.
So it seems to me that a significant number of people making "it all sounds the same" claim, more than likely wasted eighty bucks on a set of Raycon earbuds and now are audiophiles. In their defense, I will agree. Everything reproduced by Raycons sound like crap, so there's that. Also, no one wants to hear anything negative about the gear they have already purchased and can get quite defensive when they find negative criticism. For what that is worth.
I'm glad you brought up ears. Our hearing degrades yes but everyone has a physically different ear shape as well, which absolutely impacts what you hear. A "flat" speaker may enter person A's ear as flat, but not person B's ears. Likewise, a V shape speaker may be V for person A, but flat for person B. This is why measurements are *helpful* but because you can't measure your EAR the same way, you MUST apply your own subjective element to it! This is getting out there a bit (but is absolutely true) - what we hear *can* even differ by RACE (even gender)!! Yes, it's true! And this is, again due to how ear shapes and sizes differ. My father's side (who is Italian) have distinctively different ear shapes than my Mom's side, who is primarily Native American/Cherokee. It's very interesting and pretty cool (imo) but not talked about a lot. But it's fun! There's some interesting scientific studies on the subject (ear variances by race, age, gender, etc) if anyone is nerdy/geeky enough to check it out lol.
Your ears keep growing and changing shape your whole life (fact)..add that to increasing hearing loss and you know why audiophiles have to keep changing audiogear and speakers all of the time.. 🤪
Well put. I have tinnitus, I can’t hear your perfect testing frequency response speaker. I need certain frequencies boosted and some cut.
There are ways to do that.
Getting close to 200K. Any day now. Congrats.
I believe in the point of ' diminishing returns ' and have exceeded it . way back when, my first 'real stereo ' - Dynaco 25 spks, 15 w. Ch pioneer receiver , AR T'table. I think it'd still be OK today, but for technical type issues. learned early that full auto T'table handles the critical needle /disc contact better than my hands. especially if 'enhancements' are used. and 15 w / ch is sorta minimal. actually I'm OK on occasion listening to music on this computer, with an $ 80. ' sound system'.
I'm new to this and very confused on amps. How does an external amp result in a different sound quality output? Isn't it just adding more power and the source before the amplifier is responsible for the quality? It makes sense to me that two different AVRs (e.g. Marantz vs Pioneer) would result in a different sound quality but how would the same Marantz AVR connected to two different external amps result in a different sound quality output?
In a perfect world. A friend said he always wanted a straight wire with gain. Different caps, inductors, resistors, transistors all sound different so why shouldn't amps?
@@chemania1
Amps usually have much lower THD percentages than speakers. So the speakers have more influence, one would expect. Then there's the way speakerimpedance curves differ and the way these impact on the amplifier performance. How do we know we're hearing the difference purely within the amplifier and not the differences between speakers and/or the impact of a speaker's impedance curve?
I'll say this, the higher in quality the speakers, the more noticeable the higher in quality the amplifier is going to be detected. You can very easily overspend on an amp, however someone telling you that a high-end amp is nothing more than snake oil while judging that on the mid-level speakers they are listening to, is disingenuous. It's all relative and everyone's individual point of diminishing returns comes into play. Seek out people that have the best you can hear and listen to as much stuff as possible. Enjoy the ride!
I agree with most of these except a flat frequency response. You do want this from a speaker along with a matched phase. The problem is what we actually want is a flat in room frequency response we also need the off axis response horizontal and vertical to be flat. We could get close to this in a single position in a true anechoic chamber. Most frequency response are measured in anechoic or pseudo (compensated) anechoic conditions. Then we listen to the speakers under boundary conditions that are completely wrong, in the wrong position with asymmetric echo response. In these conditions our “perfect” speaker sounds awful. Speakers are designed too be used close to a wall or away from the wall. Almost always away from side walls. Listening positions should be always away from a rear wall. So we start again to get an imperfect best compromise that sounds good to us, that may be a very natural sound or a very produced sound and again different speakers will better match different genres. Measurement can give us the best solution but only by profiling our hearing, creating a matching mic profile then doing tens of thousands of in room measurements and probably applying finite element analysis to model ideal speaker profiles for the unit designs. Then apply unlimited cost engineering to build the speakers as modelled.
@4:30, I'm one of those who wonders if all DACs sound different. But I've never listened to different DACs. I always simply use the amp's connections, etc. It would be interesting to test 2 DACs.
speaker cables are underrated man. I got one of those double braided with special shielding, and they reduced a lot of veil and bloat from my overall system. Do not spend more than 100 bucks unless you want some ridiculous length, but do no go cheap on these either. Btw its because of listening to guys like Randy.
Good video, however I do think a flat frequency response is a good thing, and that a speaker should get its characteristics and attributes through other things like components, drivers, design, and materials used not via frequency range changes. However that is one way to do it
In this day of DSPs, Audyssey, Dirac, Anthem Room Correction, YPAO, etc. It seems to me the goal of the end to end system should be flat. All of the components that can't be tuned (speakers, amps, cables) should have the goal of being as neutral as possible. Then using the processor you can tune to taste. That's why Yamaha has so many sound modes. Would you like "Klipsch sound", "Marantz", "B&W"? There ought to be DSP settings to tune the output to that - while also taking your room into account. And I fully expect that DSP processing is much more than EQ.
you forgot to mention:
Power cables, cable elevators, power conditioners, ingenious tweaks
My favorite bit of hifi nonsense is people (including Paul from PS Audio) hyping Tesla Powerwalls as improvers of sound quality because they "condition" the power. They do no such thing, matching voltage and frequency to the line input. I had Powerwalls installed for other reasons and they did absolutely nothing for sound quality (no surprise!)
Isn't a flat speaker eazyer to manipulate with an EQ