Are EVs Really More Expensive? Debunking EV Myths Series
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
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The apples to apples approach has to include not just initial pricing and mileage but depreciation and insurance.
don't forget repair costs, frequent tire replacements compared to ice vehicles
Love this. But the title was misleading since you didn’t actually discuss the ICE vs EV sales (which EVs are still growing despite the media saying otherwise).
We A/B test many titles and thumbnails so could you share which one you felt was misleading?
@@BenSullinsOfficial You sir are uneducated.Electric vehicles are an older more outdated technology and it's shortcomings show over internal combustion.
@@BenSullinsOfficial yes any ev on the planet is more expensive than my 2014 lx honda crv fwd.
I have been saying this for years electric motors 5 parts just add electricity, gas engines and transmissions 1000s plus parts requires gas oil coolants and electricity plus computers and sensors to the wazoo. EV have to be the better solution and cheaper over time to make. I dont own an EV currently but I hope to get an Aptera a solar electric car that is a start up company in Carlsbad Ca. 40 miles a day from the sun and uses a relatively small battery that can charge 150 miles overnight on 115 house current.
The model Y was the best selling car for all of 2023… and apparently q1 of 2024. How do people not know that?
Because media still spews: "Did you see Elon's post...!"
I pick up my model Y this Saturday in SoCal. 😎
You live on a different planet than the rest of us though
@@ondago2 I fly around the country for work, things are pretty much the same everywhere. This is my third EV. I know they’re not for everyone.
@@Shane-zl9ry Ok, cool. I was just thinking that California is so, so very different from almost anywhere else in the USA, from EV charging infrastructure, weather, Hollywood and sports money, not a knock, California is awesome, just outside of espcially LA area to LV or SF, it's a whole different value proposition for people around the rest of the US. I'm from Michigan and so it is, like a different world becuase it is a very differnt state.
@@ondago2 Yeah I guess that’s true. I’m just used to it.
Haven't been on UA-cam in a week, first thing that pops up is a new video from Sullins. Yes please.
one missed opportunity: on the savings chart, you should have taken 5 seconds to slowly scroll towards the bottom, so every US viewer could look at their individual states' savings. In the Bay Area, home electricity prices are being gouged by PG&E so much that some owners are finding it cheaper to charge at Superchargers rather than at home entirely from the grid (even off peak), and some owners are finding that on an e-gallon basis for a RWD model 3 it can actually be more expensive than gas in the current pricing environment
There's a link to it in the description. Or you mean the quick version I made?
@@BenSullinsOfficial i meant the percentage savings chart you made, at roughly 6:26. Is that linked in the description?
The Model Y was the best selling car in the world for the 2023 year. This year it has remained the best selling car in the world. It is not in a month dude.
Actually, it was the best selling vehicle in the world in all of 2023 Ben. You made it sound like its success in the first quarter was some kind of fluky aberration.
Ben, when you talk about MSRP, you need to keep in mind that is not the real price of a vehicle when it comes to a dealer. The true price is the INVOICE price. The only way to pay the invoice price is to buy direct from the manufacturer. For instance, from Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc.
When buying through a dealer, you have a middleman who needs his cut. So for ALL ICE vehicles, you're paying a markup whether you pay MSRP or even below it, because the invoice price is much lower than the MSRP.
And the only way to get your full $7,500 rebate is to buy it direct. Otherwise, dealers will bake it into the price, and their so called, "discounts." They're already doing it. Just try and get an EV from a dealer $7,500 below MSRP and see.
So not only are they making the difference between the invoice and the MSRP, but now they're now pocketing part, or all, of your $7,500 rebate on top of that.
One metric for fuel economy that works well is litres/100 km (in Canada). That allows you to calculate how much it costs to drive 100 km. The direct comparison in EV’s is kWh/100 km. My Mazda has been averaging 10 L/100 km and at current prices that’s $17 to drive 100 km. A Mustang Mach-e is quoted at 23 kWh/100 km on the stickers at the dealerships here. We pay $0.17 per kWh at home in Nova Scotia (which has some of the most expensive electricity in Canada) which means it costs $3.91 to go the same distance in the Mach-e. Less than 25% of the Mazda 3 I’m driving. In Quebec it would be even cheaper.
Are you going to share the link to the graph you made yourself?
Didn't plan on it, is that something you'd be interested in?
Here in WA we get reamed by state gas taxes. Conversely, we have alot of cheap power from Bonneville Power and dams, etc. As such, yeah the difference is pretty shocking
And in August, if you qualify, you'll be able to get super cheap leases on EVs!
Overall a great video. Thanks!
For my zip code used Tesla site only has one car for sale, a Model 3.
they offer delivery usually if it's outside your area
I was thinking about buy a used Model 3 from Hertz. The purchase price is far more affordable for me. What are your thoughts, Ben?
I like it assuming there's still warranty left on the battery otherwise I'd look for a third party warranty and factor that into the price
@@BenSullinsOfficial awesome. Thank you for the advice. Are there any mileage limits you’d avoid?
Outside of the warranty concerns no
Only can tell if you compare registration numbers. Sales numbers are not accurate since dealers don’t report the number manufacturers do. Only a few manufacturers sell direct like Tesla.
They should be outselling gas cars. EVs are way better.
Facts. I don’t even have charger at home or work. Still better for me. Got charger 5 min walk from my gym then got charger outside of grocery store and in the malls. Works amazing good. Just when I park when doing something I just get a charger park space. I have done this for a year and no different in how my day is going. Have saved $3000 in a year. Some times I’m lazy but I gotta charge so I just go to the gym and charge nearby ✔️
fun fact: hyundai charge $60,000 for battery replacement.
@@newchannel1220and a 10 yr 100k mile warranty and average replacement cost is $5k to $15k per consumer reports.
So perhaps you can provide a source. I got warrantee info from Hyundai USA website. And Edmunds website says: “On average, you can expect the replacement cost of an electric car's battery to run from $5,000 to upward of $15,000, according to an article from Consumer Reports.” So where did you get your number? Just curious
Yo pass whatever you're smoking this way man, must be some good stuff!
Kona gas version in Canada $29,000, Kona EV $49,000. That’s a lot of gas to buy for the difference. Not close enough, yet.
Picking a Lexus to compare against the Model Y is okay and it is tough to find an exact match of luxury/tech to compare, so I would have added a Rav4 and CRV to the mix. For the masses, the Rav4 and CRV are what normal buyers would likely default to for a crossover when thinking about what to buy. Without the tax credit, the Y is higher, but not buy much depending on what trim level you go with. This I think is huge, because people act like Tesla is very expensive, but people seem to have ignored where new vehicle prices in general.
The way EV tech is evolving and prices are falling, we are not far off from a market where ICE is the more costly option from day one and EVs will commonly have 300 miles of range and 10-80% recharges will commonly be 10 minutes and we have many charging locations in enough places the stress of where to charge will be very low. I am onboard with the idea of owning EVs now is better than ICE, but for a chunk of the market, they "need" 300 miles or more of range and do not want to wait more than 10 minutes to recharge, all while paying current ICE or lower prices.
When 2030 rolls around, I believe there will many EV options that are vastly superior to ICE in almost every category. For most buyers, what powers a vehicle does not really matter, it is cost, headaches, reliability, and convenience. The deep, load, rumble sound or smell of gasoline, only matters to a very small percentage of buyers. They are very vocal, so it may seem like half of drivers demand this, but it is not the case.
Keep up the fight against Ben. I hope people buy EVs, especially from US builders. The top four vehicles you can buy in terms of US parts and labor are EVs. We need to support US manufacturing if we hope to still have manufacturing in the USA.
Talking about the price with incentives just kills the argument
Can I log in
Problem is these interest rates if your not able to pay it off fast
Always pay cash ;)
The best comparison to miles-per-gallon is miles-per-10-kWh.
This is because an EV can do about the same amount of work with 10 kWh as an ICE car can do with 1 gallon of gas.
This is because ICE vehicles typically only use about 10 kWh of energy to actually move the vehicle, the rest going to waste heat.
I wish that was all true here in Canada. I am making half decent money, but I can't bring myself to spend well over $50,000 for a model Y. Then there is cost of insurance (double of comparable ICE vehicle). Wait until the government clues in they need to tax electricity to offset loss of 'revenues' due to decline in gas consumption. Let the technology win on it's own merit. No one had to persuade old time farmers that tractors were better than horses.
Check out the Smith-Lever act of 1914. You might be surprised
@@BenSullinsOfficial I am not sure how it relates to this topic. It's fairly clear to me that the government intervention to 'save us from ourselves' often results with less efficient processes and reduces personal freedoms. It reminds of my grandma who would say you are cold, meaning she was cold and she wanted me to dress warmly to help her feel less cold.
Lexus is you comparison car? Try Honda, or even Toyota to be more realistic. The issue with your comparison is that to get a Model Y type vehicle on the electric side, its really only the Model Y, ICE vehicles have so many more options. The CR-V LX is 29,500.
So would you compare an e-bike to a ducati also? Seems like you're unfamiliar with Tesla. You can get a free demo drive with my code here: ts.la/ben4054
@@BenSullinsOfficial Depends on the Bike. But my point was less about the price and more about the utility. You dont need a Lexus to get the same utility. And I have had 2 Teslas (currently a MSP), neither of which I would compare to a Lexus.
I don't understand why people think the model 3 and Y are luxury vehicles they simply aren't even though some places classify them that way. Model 3 comparison ICE vehicle is a Camry or Accord not a BMW like many say. The Model Y comparison ICE vehicle is a Rav 4, CRV, Escape etc... With Tax Credits especially with the Y it is a decent buy. But the savings is not as great as the media portrays.
At that rate wouldn't a pair of shoes and backpack be the best value? Super cheap and great functionality, you can walk anywhere!
@@BenSullinsOfficial Indeed! That is if you think they are equivalent to a Lexus, like you do apparently. You seem to miss the point, which I guess is ok. Tesla does not make luxury vehicles, not even close. And the utility of a model Y is easily achieved with an ICE vehicle for much less. This is especially true as the cost for electricity continues to rise.
Hertz is selling another 10,000 Teslas, deals are coming again because they are so good…lol😂
It was something like “Are EVs sales really slowing down vs ICE cars?”
Interesting! That wasn't one we actually used but I'll send to the team 👍
Good video, however the savings is even more, I think you were being too conservative. I'm paying $0 per month because of solar, but it would be $30 if I didn't have solar, at .13 per kwh. A coworker of mine spends $250 per month, same commute, similar miles. Thats huge savings, around $30k in 10 years. My Tesla is basically a free car if I keep it for 15 years. Loving my Model Y, its the best car I've ever driven, so much fun. Try the S3XY buttons and drift mode, it makes the car even more fun, especially in snow.
No thank you. No ev for me.
This is because lack of choice in EVs. Ice car models are spread out while EVs are concentrated in Tesla. Especially North American market forbids Chinese entrance.
It's quickly changing! Tesla went from 80% marketshare to 50% in the past 3 years. In 10yrs time they'll be like apple with around 15-20% of EVs overall. Bright future ahead!
Good evening neighbor, would you like a new 24 Model X to review?
Interesting charting, but Im not 100% clear on what Im seeing. I have no doubt that your percentage of savings is valid...in fact as a nebraska resident and knowing that we have pretty cheap electricity, Im not surprised we are on the list... But Im not quite sure what youre basing the savings on. I was thinking you could use something like pick a comparable car to an EV...for instance.. a Model Y to a Maxda CX-90 to get a mpg and mpkwh baseline. Then compare the savings that way. Obviously different cars on either side of the equation will make for different numbers, but it would be a solid comparison.
Check out the DOE e-gallon tool, you can add in whatever cars you want. Just make sure to pick a fair comparison!
I think when we get multiple EV in the range of 25k-40k (before the federal tax credit) also not the Chevy Cruze, is when EVS really start to challenge the sales of ice cars.
Model 3 and Model Y. Tax credit applied at time of purchase, not after so it's effectively the same as it being lower.
@@BenSullinsOfficial ....or lease - currently Fed Tax Credit only available through the lease option loophole for Model 3 along with other non-qualifying EVs.
@@BenSullinsOfficial with tesla cutting off basic function of model i am not tesla is the ultimate choice and repair aspect of tesla is pathetic , they are anti repair and anti consumer
do you know a battery replacement you aren't getting a brand new replacement, according tesla you will get a remanufactured battery, most cells will be used and might have a less range than your defective battery. Also EV service centers that remanufacture the batteries have been showing that the cells used in tesla batteries are the same low cost Chinese that we see in the china EV cars. The problem with tesla is that they glue the cells and its way harder to service such batteries, several people complaint that replacement batteries dies in less than a year, and tesla only gave them 12 months of warranty in those batteries, not another 10 years or 100k miles.
How about getting a used Tesla? The battery warranty and the previous owner problems.
Highly recommend. They give you a new warranty if you buy from Tesla or get a third party extended warranty.
Compare it with camry hybrid and there is no way modle y comes out ahead
Compare that to a bicycle and the bike comes out ahead, amazing how that works! 😅
Are you that daft … compare model y to vehicles that actually work and don’t pick and choose your random
Points .you have still not given any data to prove otherwise . Just insults
What about charge infrastructure. Ability for charging for renters. It just isn't feasible.
For renters, charging an ev is only slightly less convenient than gas cars 10%-80% charge now takes 20-30 minutes or so. There are also lots of Level 2 chargers around. If you live or work near one that could be a good solution
There's some truth there, but depending where you live it's not hard to find ways around it. For example lots of grocery stores, gyms, and offices have charging options so you can fill up while busy doing something else. There's a good book from the guys at EV Annex about creating your "Personal Charging Infrastructure" that's worth checking out
@@MoreOnEVs The problem with level 2 charging stations are that that charge 5 to 85 cent a kw. That no longer makes the cost to run economically. The other stations that charge under 50 cents a kw are level 1 peaking at typically 7 kwh so you have to be there for 6 to 10 hours.
@@BenSullinsOfficial as stated above level 2 public stations are too expensive and often times they are full or malfunctioning. I say this as an ev owner and renter in a city with over 1 million people. At the moment I can't recommend an ev to renters. The headache is not worth the potential cost savings. Plus PGE rates are so outlandish here that I couldn't imagine adding charging up a 77kw battery ☠️
@@mcca555bummer about pricing. Not sure where in the world you are, but I’m just north of Boston and the garage near my job has level 2 for $.35/kwh. Also, if the charger is near work or home, 8 hours is not a problem
With the rise of PHEVs I’d like to see you do some comparisons between them and EVs. I’ve had a volt since 2020 and can pretty much get to work and back on a single charge in the summer, in the winter I rely on 120v charging at work. The weekends are more hit and miss because I don’t have a 240v outlet at home so charging between errands isn’t as fast. But the average MPG over nearly 50k miles is 109 which includes a few really long road trips nearly entirely on gas. This isn’t the most efficient in hybrid mode either, only about 33mpg in hybrid mode. Where I live there aren’t as many chargers at certain destinations so range anxiety on day trips becomes an issue where I don’t ever have that with the volt.
I've always been a fan of PHEVs
EVs can't beat Toyota hybrids in 2024. Don't buy the "Prime", just get the standard Toyota hybrid.
There are many Teslas in EV salvage yards that could be repaired, but Tesla is no help, and third parties are afraid of them. Not so with Toyota hybrids. That repairability is relected in the low Tesla resale values. As most Americans buy used cars, the repair issue dooms Tesla to be a niche purchase.
Very few EV batteries are being recycled in 2024. Some EV batteries will be repurposed for solar storage.
Only 70 percent of the lithium in a battery can be recovered. Unless this improves, lithium resourses will always be mined and costs will probably increase with scarcity.
Recyling requires tax payer subsidies. For decades solar panels which could have been recycled have been buried in landfills. Many EV myths are unfortunately mostly true.
model y compare to lexus is itself a joke
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It’s mind-boggling to compare gasoline to electricity. The process of drilling for oil, transporting crude oil to refineries, refining the oil in into constituents parts that include gasoline, and then trucking the gasoline in large tanker trucks to gas stations all over the country, and then pumping highly flammable liquid into automobile gas tanks seems absurdly complicated compared to plugging a car into the electrical grid. (Of course, we need to strive for more renewable sources of electricity generation.) Finally, a benefit of EVs not often mentioned is that we’ve never gone to war over electricity.
I agree. However, when you break down the source of energy at super charging or fast charging infrastructure the energy is still “dirty” energy so you still need oil refining, transport, etc. until we have a more dominant renewable energy source infrastructure throughout the US like wind and solar farms to power the energy grid.
@@rexcharles11 Home charging coupled with solar was the game changer for me. In over a year of EV ownership I’ve used superchargers only a handful of times. No long road trips, however.
@@richardcoughlin8931 Yes, I agree. Solar and in-home charging is a must for both cleaner energy and cost savings over time. I've done several long road trips and the super charging with Tesla makes it a no brainer.
The average vehicle is an F-150. That is not comparable to a Model Y.
Maybe in some areas, but Crossovers outsell trucks 2-to-1 across the US.
@@BenSullinsOfficial Average price is brought up by popular expensive trucks. If you compared the average price of compact crossovers you would get a different result.
SUV are higher in price than a Tesla Model Y.@@username65585
@@username65585 let us know what that result is
Right, you can cherry pick data to say whatever you want 👍
While I am a huge fan of EVs and believe they are the way of the future. I dont think the financial reality is quite as rosy as you portrayed it here…. Insurance and much quicker tyre wear (and replacement cost) would nullify a lot of the savings.
And the myth lives on! Do the math on it and post a video. I'd love to see it (seriously)
You have obviously absorbed all the CNBC disinformation about electric vehicles chewing through tires at a crazy rate. It's total bulshit. The problem is mostly people don't get their car aligned and then they take it back and say gee my tires are all chewed up it must be the electric vehicle!. Of course once you take this variable out tire wear is about the same relative to how enthusiastically you drive. If you enjoy Batmobile acceleration and cornering all the time obviously you're going to go through more tires. Our tires which are very expensive have lasted us on average about 40,000 mi. That's about what we expected. On Tire Cycles where we were not careful about alignment we got about half of that. So once again this is another EV disinformation BS talking point. Oh almost forgot to mention our insurance is $450 a year per car and we have two electric vehicles
Huh? There are a lot cheaper, way cheaper, cars than EVs.
Expensive maintenance outweighs the actual cost of ev cars AND the savings...plus the ev battery degrades from 100% to less than 50% , making it very difficult to resell (imo, do t wanna resell it because it dupes people who want to buy ev cars). One accident that affects the battery makes your insurance go up...as ev batteries cost almost the same as buying a new one..
Still cheaper to buy petrol cars in the long run.
As long as ev cars have a high price tag...the environment will still take its toll from petrol cars.
The comparison to the Average Transaction Price of $48,165 is faulty. For Tesla just the 'Vehicle price' was shown, but not the $1,390 destination fee, $250 order fee, state registration or the state sales tax. The Average Transaction Price is what you would write a check for - so that includes everything.
And EV insurance costs might be muddled by the Federal tax credit. If an EV gets totaled, I believe that you can get the credit again for a new replacement EV. But if a EV just needs repair, then the cost might be more proportional to the vehicle cost before the credit. And Tesla repairs may be costlier and less convenient for some more years as they don't yet have a lot of older vehicles to support their service centers.
Tesla may also practice Cartel Behaviour in that to not use an approved repairer can be complicated.
why you always compare apples with limes? So you started comparing the Tesla model Y with the Corolla, a base model Y MSRP its 45000, out of pocket before fees and taxes, a base corolla is 22000, you are not getting a 7500 cash back its just a credit for deduction but still not getting discounted the full 7500 from your taxes, in reality will be around 44500 after tax reduction. Still is doable the price of the Gasoline car, at the Base level. when you mention that car maintenance its around 6k per year, that would be if the car is not under warranty, a new car do not need more than 500 bucks per year of maintenance per year, which means EV are more expensive, because all "preventive services" from Tesla are charged triple the price of what a gasoline car will pay, for example, the tire rotation, cost 75 bucks in Tesla center, if you skip it or take it to another shop you might lose the warranty, according Tesla service center. Also they need to check the suspension called safety check, which its a couple hundreds of labor, No service is free from Tesla,
If you can't charge at home, it is much more expensive to charge an EV than it is to buy gas. Recently went to Electrify America. 56 cents per Kwh. My bill was $20.16. Got about 100 miles of range. Gas at $4.00 per gallon (it is actually about $3.55 currently) would equal 5 gallons of gas. 30 miles per gallon for 5 miles of gas means 150 miles of range vs 1. And, I am coming from a Prius that got 50 per gallon. So that would be 250 vs 100. Now I can charge at home for way less than that. but not everyone can.
Tell me who in their right mind is charging a Tesla at Electrify America? Scratch that - who in their right mind is charging anything at Electrify America? At Tesla superchargers the top rate is about 33 cents an hour. That blows up your analysis and unless you're driving a Prius and you're not driving it on the highway, forget about getting anywhere near that cost of day-to-day operation unless you're getting gas for $2.25 a gallon. So take your disinformation somewhere else please
That's some impressive cherry-picked data. Point #1, though that makes your post nonsense, is who in their right mind would charge their Eevee at Electrify America?. Most unreliable and most expensive charging Network in the US. The notion that your roughly 40 kilowatts got you 100 mi. suggests you're driving a boat. A more realistic number would be that for your $20, you would get roughly 70 KW hours, and driving a model 3 that would get you basically 260-280 mi. So your cost analysis is BS. I'd call it consistent with disinformation and how the fossil FUD gates are wide open
I have 2 years of free charging at Electrify America. I am only pointing out what it costs not what I paid.. Most automakers, that give free charging, use Electrify America. I don't own a Tesla. I don't like the interior. I am driving a BMW IX. Don't take it personal. I have had the vehicle for just over 1 year. It isn't BS. Below is cut from the bill.
Charging Time 00:25:13
Energy Billed 36.0000 kWh
Charging Cost $20.16
@@douglaswatt1582
Connecticut, not the cheapest, but still a great savings to switch to an EV.
Was it a myth when there were not recycling places for batteries or you could not find a second hand battery? every vehicle ever made goes through these same issues.. My thing has always been WHY don't we learn from our mistakes and come up with a better solution before we just ramp up production and have a bunch of expensive waste just waiting. as for solar that cost up front is pretty hefty and for some they can only do one or the other not both. so either get the used ev or get solar for their home and later in life do the opposite. I also feel we as a nation should have done a slower drip of change - focus on the hybrid models, then do generation hybrid with full ev then only full ev.. this would give time for the electric production market to catch up I.E. wind solar, thermal plants to be built, as well as grid support to be put in and make solar panels more common and accessable through new construction having to need them. Anyway good vid and topic discussions. cheers.
EVs only sell more in a few places. Norway is the only one I know.
For those seeking performance, choosing an electric vehicle (EV) is the way to go, whereas those prioritizing range should opt for ICE cars. EVs boast remarkable performance capabilities, while ice cars offer reliable range.
Model y long range does not get 310 miles of range . Barely 200 miles
Promo'SM
Ben is full of S
Tesla haters strike again 😅
@@BenSullinsOfficial No just hate you.
EV are a slow moving train wreck. They are worthless as soon as the battery is dead
Trolling is a slow-moving disaster, but the favorite cottage industry for the minimally talented. Trolling comments are worthless as soon as they are posted