Why Tire Companies Love EVs
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 кві 2024
- The tire business can be a brutal one - low growth, low margins and extreme competition. Tire makers are at the mercy of ups and downs of raw material prices. About half of customers are largely indifferent to the brand of tires they buy. Price is the main differentiator. But industry analysts say the rise of EVs provides tire makers with the biggest growth opportunity they have seen in decades. AlixPartners estimates that tires on EVs can cost 50 percent more and require replacement 20 percent more frequently. Watch the video above to learn more.
Chapters:
00:00 - 01:16 Title card - Why tire companies love EVs
01:23 Chapter 1 - A tough business
03:37 Chapter 2 - EV revolution
09:31 Chapter 3 - The potential
Producer: Robert Ferris
Editor: Evan Lee Miller
Animation: Christina Locopo, Jason Reginato
Senior Managing Producer: Tala Hadavi
Additional footage: Audi, Chevrolet, Continental, Ford Getty Images, GMC, Kia Michelin, Polestar, Porsche, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen
» Subscribe to CNBC: cnb.cx/SubscribeCNBC
» Subscribe to CNBC TV: cnb.cx/SubscribeCNBCtelevision
About CNBC: From 'Wall Street' to 'Main Street' to award winning original documentaries and Reality TV series, CNBC has you covered. Experience special sneak peeks of your favorite shows, exclusive video and more.
Want to make extra money outside of your day job? Take CNBC’s new online course How to Earn Passive Income Online to learn about common passive income streams. Register today and save 50% with discount code EARLYBIRD: cnb.cx/3Iwblnk
Connect with CNBC News Online
Get the latest news: www.cnbc.com/
Follow CNBC on LinkedIn: cnb.cx/LinkedInCNBC
Follow CNBC News on Instagram: cnb.cx/InstagramCNBC
Follow CNBC News on Facebook: cnb.cx/LikeCNBC
Follow CNBC on Threads: cnb.cx/threads
Follow CNBC News on X: cnb.cx/FollowCNBC
#CNBC
Why Tire Companies Love EVs - Авто та транспорт
When I saw the title I knew it was gonna talk about replace more often to help elevate tire companies profits.
@@SausyGuyFinnmy model y weighs the same as or less than all these soccer mom Tahoes and Wagoneers and even less than some luxury sedans. Weight isn’t the issue. If you don’t floor it every time you get in your EV, you won’t blow through tires like this video is claiming.
Weight is the issue .
@@Molecanyour model Y isn’t as big as the Tahoes and Wagoneers though is it
His model weighs as much as a typical dump truck, but less than some luxury cargo ships…. Weight isn’t the issues LOL
@@ranranj1245Its not light weight either, its heavy & with Electric motor putting instant torque/power down, tyres are put under immense pressure!
0:53 Video: EV tires cost 50% more and need to be changed 20% more often.
Summary text: "...tires on EVs can cost 20 percent more and require replacement 50 percent more frequently."
Regardless of which is true, the total cost of tires on EVs are 80%higher than regard cars. 1.2 X 1.5 = 1.8
idiots
And yet they say it's less maintenance with an EV
@oeao2841 I think they are referring to the engine which is true.
EV pros and cons:
Pros: less maintenance
Cons: number of EV chargers, cold weather problems, charging time, spend more on tires more often
Here's one technical thing they overlooked:
Every vehicle has alignment specs from the factory. EVs are no different. Specifically for the Tesla Model S, it has a rear camber spec of -1.5 degrees with 1 degree tolerance, meaning up to -2.5 is still in spec. The rear wheels are slanted inward for stability. The further it's slanted inward means more wear. Combined with instant, very high levels of torque and a very heavy curb weight, it's no wonder they shred through tires.
Michelin must be making so much money off Tesla, especially fitting those giant sizes on. Pilot Sport's are fantastic, but most people are never gonna really use them to their full potential.
@@ctoacu6188 "most people are never gonna really use them to their full potential." absolutely true. The average consumer only even really cares about how long they last and completely ignore any performance aspect.
This is why I went to do a wheel alignment and tires ware normally now and last longer.
@@soapa4279While that is certainly true half of road accidents could be avoided with high quality tires.
@@4rzaluz yes indeed. the literal difference between life and death. It's insane when people go cheap on tires or brakes.
Regenerative braking isn't going to wear the rows any more than friction brakes. Both are absorbing the same energy. Claiming regen braking wears tires faster is nonsense.
This entire news piece is nonsense
@@VibesInMotion That EV's wear through tires faster is as factual as you can get.
But yes it's not down to regenerative breaking. It is down to 3 things, heavy weight, high power output and instand torque. With weight beeing the biggest factor.
It's car weight causing it
except, you regenerative brake A LOT more often than you would brake normally. Everytime you would drift normally in a car, an EV is essentially braking.
@@loneronthestreetre more tire wear in EVs due to re generative braking: EVs can’t be decelerating more in sum otherwise you’d be slowing down more than traffic. What IS happening is the braking occurs over a longer time at a lower rate which would reduce tire wear, not increase it.
10:32 Guy states that Tesla vehicle requires tire replacement every 15k miles, but this is completely false. You can google yourself and find that typical tire replacement for the OEM tires happens at above 40k miles.
Yep i replaced my Michelin Primacy's at 40k. they are totaly over exagerating this.
In my experience, you'll get frequent enough flat tires with a Tesla (and probably other EVs) that the actual mileage of the tire won't matter much. The EV torque is either causing extra flats by rolling over potentially damaging objects at peak torque, which wedges the sharp object into the tread more reliably, or else the torque off the front tires is standing up potential puncture cause and allowing the rears to be more easily punctured as they follow. Multiple cars and a motorcycle in the household but only the Tesla gets a much higher frequency of flat tires (and they all go the same places), so it has to be either the EV factor or the stock tesla tires are more flat prone. But we've gotten flats in the replacement non-OEM tires, too. It seems like a mechanical problem that must be related to the torque from the EV motors. We've seen an average of more than 1 flat tire per year over 4 years of model Y ownership, most of them unrepairable and costing on the order of $350 to replace. We've had zero flat tires on any other vehicle over the same time period. We are also on our 3rd $2000 windscreen, though most of that has been covered by insurance. Tires and windscreens have been the only expenses so far - every other (minor) issue has been covered by warranty and no significant service has been required.
@@samgendler haven't heard of an experience like yours from Tesla owners I know. Could just be bad luck. I had a friend (old minivan driver) who recently got 3 first tire issues in 3 months. They were repairable but strange that it happened so often in a short span of time
I was at 45k on my original set when I had a blowout due to striking some road debris. I figured since the other 3 were getting close I might as well replace all 4. I have a feeling I would’ve gotten 55k miles out of them otherwise. Maybe it’s all of the alignment and suspension issues that were more common with earlier Teslas that have skewed the data?
@@samgendler That's interesting. I've never had a blowout on my 2016 Model S.
My ‘22 Model 3 Performance tires still look great with 28K miles on them and I drive that car like I stole it because I am always late lol. I had to recently replace the tires on my first EV, a 2017 Bolt after 60K miles. The new tires for the Bolt were rated very high for EVs and cost less than most tires I ever priced at $89 per tire….I was blown away when I got the estimate because that is here in California! I had a 2010 Prius before the Bolt and could never get more than 30K out of any tires on it. I love EVs and will never go back
having driven almost 20k miles, my Model Y hasn't shown any signs of needing a replacement. It's worth noting that driving style plays a critical role in the longevity of tires. If one drives the vehicle recklessly, whether it's an ICE or an electric vehicle, it's likely to have a shorter the tires lifespan. On the other hand, if you're a mature and cautious driver who avoids risky behavior on the road, your tires might need to be replaced earlier that in a ICE car, but 12k miles? Seriously?. It's important to remember that some of the claims surrounding EVs are exaggerated for good or bad.
Yea, my OEM Michelin Primacy MXM4 on my 2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range+ lasted for 55k miles.
Daily driver car.
@@sistani3313 that's really good, I'm sure less battery weight helps a little bit in that but overall that's great mileage to see out of those tires (2017 LR RWD model 3) I have a lead foot unfortunately (acceleration is too fun) and only got 25K out of mine.
I'm sure the road condition also a factor
Or, get this - instead of wasting thru a bunch of tires, knowing full well a lot of people A. don't even understand how their aggressive driving affects the vehicle, or B. don't give a ****, the government just regulates EV acceleration to stop the wastage.
I drive my Y like I stole it at least twice a week if not more, no need to replace tires, that bogus, they’re also cheap continentals that came with the car, no more expensive then any ice continental tire.
Anybody getting only 15K miles in a Tesla (or Hyundai/Kia, Audi, Porsche) would also only get 15K miles if you put them in a Ford Mustang GT. That's owner behavior. Set the acceleration to "Chill" mode in a Tesla and you won't be chirping at every green light, or just behave yourself with the throttle. But that's like telling people to control themselves at an All-You-Can-Eat buffet.
The Mustang GT isn't designed to be economical. The whole purpose of an EV is economy. Hard to find an economical EV these days which is why they haven't caught on yet. Bring an EV with 1,000mi range and more people will look into it but that'll never happen. Everytime these people come out with something new, it creates new problems nobody asked for.
@@headliner733 I think the point is here when you put more torque on the ground you’re wearing out your tires relatively way too much that’s the point of the comment.
@@headliner733It's not hard to find an economical EV. The Model 3 is cheaper than a Camry if you even pay a lick of taxes. If you're so low income you don't have FICA then you could swing a Bolt at just $28K ($21K after rebate). There's also the Kia Soul or Niro. I mean Toyota could totally make an electric Corolla but obviously they have no intention of giving up their petroleum addiction when they release something like the BZ4X.
1000 mile range? Seriously? What poor person is driving 300 miles daily let alone 1000 miles. The average commute is about 25 miles, put in an extra 10 for a sidetrip and you're still looking at less than 250 miles for a whole week - an apartment dweller could charge at a DC station once a week and survive with a Bolt. Rich people don't drive, they fly when it goes past 100 miles.
I mean if you're that person that puts 30-50K miles a year on your vehicle because you're a traveling salesman yeah then maybe an ICE works better for you, but that's less than 1% of the populace. How many people actually use a Ford F350 and haul what the vehicle is capable of doing?
Like it or not the Chinese are going to dump their cheap battery electrics on the world market. It's already happening in EU. It's only a matter of time before BYD starts pumping out that sub $20K BEV from Mexico. There are no cheap $20K ICE cars these days. Gone are the days of Ford Fiestas, Hyundai Accents and Mitsubishi Mirages - the Chinese are coming.
EDIT to correct Bolt price.
@@Anomize23 Not necessarily true. The aspect ratio of the tire affects that more so than the torque. And they all have low profile tires don't they?
@@Tokamak3.1415 Yes it is. The Model 3 is not economical. And how convenient of you to leave out the insurance cost for a Model 3 too.
Interesting that the Managing director of a Research company that focus on investors are telling us that EV tires must be replaced at 15K miles. When the tire manufacturers themselves, the ones that stem from benefiting from us doing it more often say it is giving 4x that amount of miles in warranty.
Well, whatever you think his agenda is, at the end of the day you can't deny physics. EVs weigh considerably more than their gas equivalents, putting more pressure on the tire when rolling around, then you have the added resistance of the regenerative tech and people's lead feet on with almost a 100% torque instantly available. Taking all those facts into consideration, logic would dictate that EVs will need to get tires replaced faster than ICE cars.
Read the mileage warranty, they use tread depth as the measurement.
The mileage clams are canceled with the fine print.
Enjoy the read next time you purchase tires 😀
The guy representing Bridgestone stated that they are designing tyres for EVs that last longer. Case closed.
I have a Tesla Model 3 rwd with 34k miles on the original tires and that's with me having a little too much fun with the instant torque at first. My next set should last 50k+ miles. Also EVs are not necessarily heavier than the gas compression. The Model 3 is not as heavy as some of the gas cars in its segment.
@@Aki_Lesbrinco Dude it's not the much different. i got 40k on my Michelins' with my Tesla model S. 10 year ago i had an Infiniti M45 with summer tires that never lasted past 20k.
Can we finally start including the recycling cost of products with the people that make them as well?
Doing so will push car manufactures to focus on making cars less heavy and optimize more to avoid wear and tear.
I honestly think it just makes sense that if you make a product you should be responsible for its entire life cycle including when it becomes non-functioning.
That would apply to ICE vehicles especially, all that oil, oil filters, timing chains, spark plugs, clutches, exhausts, brake pads, brake discs etc etc
I mean it'll just end up being paid by the consumer.
your just gonna end up with worse performing tires that last longer
I wonder why it has taken ICE car drivers until now to worry about recycling car tyres
@@stevehayward1854actually EVs pollute far more during their lifetime than ICE cars. But they don’t tell you that because then you’ll realize it’s all a scam. 🤷🏻♂️
Short answer: EVs have more torque at the wheel = quicker tire tread ware
Wear*
The thousands of pounds of extra weight effects tread wear much more significantly
More weight and torque.
Sure if you use the instant torque too much. I have 34k miles on my original Model 3 rwd tires and that's with me having a little too much fun with the instant torque at first. Next set should last 50k+ miles. Also EVs can be heavier than their gas counterparts but not always. The Model 3 is in the compact executive car segment and weighs less than some of the gas cars in the segment.
@@That-Guy_ the EV counterpart is ALWAYS heavier at this point, all things being equal. The model 3 can weigh over 4,000lbs... Show me a compact ICE car that isn't something crazy exotic (Mercedes c63 etc) that equals that weight ....I'll wait lol
The original OEM tires on my 2017 Bolt EV lasted 50,000 miles and I could have gone longer. That vehicle has been trouble free for 65K miles and a real joy to drive. As far as range, it's been petty amazing especially after it was recalled and a brand new higher capacity battery was installed after 58K miles. The new battery is only rated for 259 miles of range but if I drive it in Low range to get more regenerative braking for one pedal driving, I can often get well over 270 miles of range.
Also own a 2023 Tesla Model Y LR AWD with a little over 10,000 miles on it. I just rotated the tires with no evidence of any wear yet. But I keep it is Chill mode and try to keep the tires slightly under inflated at 40psi when cold. The Tesla is light years ahead of the Bolt in so many ways and we use it mainly for weekly trips to our country farm. I also have a gas pickup that gets very little use anymore because a gas vehicle is so much more costly to maintain and drive. For example, it cost me between $25 and $30 to charge my Tesla with an L2 charger to go on average approx. 850 miles per month. I use a time of day meter and try to charge it during off peak hours to get a reduced rate. If I drove my pickup for a month for 850 miles, it would cost a minimum $168 at my current local gas price of $3.55/gal.
Based on my experience, an EV is not only much more pleasurable to drive but a whole lot easier to maintain.
As far as insurance, I pay $100 per month for Tesla insurance on my model Y as long as I maintain a good safety score. In summary, don't believe all of the negative crap that you read on line concerning EVs. Big Oil has an order of magnitude more money to spread EV negativity and they are the ones who stand to lose the most as EVs become more popular.
i dont really like regen at all because usually if you brake lightly or medium it will regen anyway before using the real brakes, i prefer rolling out and you will be surprised how long the speed is stable.
If you replaced the battery at 58k miles, you don't have a "trouble free" vehicle for 65k.
Your math isn't mathing.
Using tesla's charging calculator for 33 miles a day times 25 will cost you $45 for that 850 miles you talked about. In California, it's cost you .48 cents/kwh at L2 charger and the gas price is $4.8/gal. Your cost of charging must be less than .15 cents/kwh for you to pay $25-30.
Sounds like a hassle...
re: "The Tesla is light years ahead of the Bolt in so many ways" ok how...? since as you said the Bolt has gotten you 270 miles of range, and of course what both the Bolt and Tesla do EQUALLY is allow you to drive past a Gas Station without stopping. in fact this achievement is "matched" by what the lowly Nissan Leaf can do and also the "mega-buck" Porsche Taycan.
I drive an 80,000-pound semi-truck. At 230,000 miles, the tire tread on my truck is still good and I believe it can still run for another 100,000 miles without a problem.
Make sure you keep those air pressures absolutely right. Check every 3-6 weeks 👍
Really? An 80,000 pound truck riding typically on 10 fairly large tires with a BOATLOAD of tread when new managed to go over 200,000 miles on a set of tires? The type of truck who's typical route plan is less "What town are you going to?" and more "What state are you visiting today?"? A vehicle that typically typically do in one month more than what an average communter car would do in half a year? NAH..... Can't imagine why something like that would have 10x the tread life of a passenger vehicle......
On the bright side, you don't have to replace the brakes through out the life of the vehicle. When I work at the Toyota dealership I would see Prius with over 250k miles come in for oil changes, you perform your regular inspection and realize it still has factory pads with 14 mm remaining.
Low tire noise is at the top of my list for things I look for when buying tires. I did this even before getting a plug in hybrid (I rarely use the gas engine). Even in my sports cars, I leaned toward quiet tires. Many people do not realize how much noise a tire can generate.
My Polestar 2 is 2 years old now, driven 50 000km and the tires look like new. People who need to replace their tires at 15000 miles need to seriously buy better quality tires.
got 6000miles out of the factory tyres (bridgestone rubbish) on my id3, changed to none ev michelins, just basic primacy 4+ and they were borderline when i sold it at 22000 on the odometer.
I just replaced the OEM Hankook Evo3 tyres on my Model 3 at 90,000km, or 55,900 miles. The replacement set cost $920, no more expensive than any other quality 235/40R19 tyre used on many ICEV's.
My previous car was a Prius, and I could not get more than 80k kms out of a set doing the exact same commute.
Yea, that is YOUR car. But on average, EV tires still cost more and require to change more frequently.
Yah the laws of physics tell me your model 3 had a different compound than your prius came with; trying to make the tires last. Michelan makes an ICE tire that is guaranteed to 130,000kms. So there is that.
@@Jordan-ql8pv The only reason the Model 3 has a different compound than the Prius is that it has 2x the horsepower. A similar car like the 2023 BMW M340i ships with the same OEM Pilot Sport 4S tires as the 2023 Model 3 Performance.
I have a Tesla Model Y Performance (0 - 60 in 3.5 seconds). While the tires are about 20% more expensive than my prior BMW 3-series, I haven’t seen much of a difference in tire wear/longevity. EV owners that are getting way less than 25k miles on the rears or 60k on the front tires must have summer tires and be driving it like they stole it!
@@VibesInMotiontesla is a fatty, needs better tires than a prius...
Just replaced my Tesla model S at 45,000 miles. Granted not as many miles as most ice vehicles not 12,000 miles.
Yeah, My model 3 LR tires are looking GREAT at 15k. I just had my tires rotated and aligned. Probably get maybe another 30k out of them.
I'm at 37000k before I replace my stock EV tires.
@@aymanhawari2589 Shhhh, the oil companies don't want the truth to be know and don't want people buying EVs.
3700000 miles is insane
exactly, this report is bollocks
Here I am driving a Renault Clio 4 and I changed my tires for the first time after driving 152 000 kilometres. 🎉
The companies are making such good tires, they are putting themselves out of business. Renault Clio 4... Sweet little ride!
Tires must be replaced every six years since they degrade from UV light regardless of km or miles
@@williamrogers1219 no, it depends on where the car is parked and the rigidity can be tested and should be tested at yearly service checks. Can easily be picked up from sidewall and thread blocks.
Michelins ?
@@JohnPMiller Continental EcoContact 5
Regen braking doesn't add any wear to tires since all of the same force gets applied by conventional brakes too. The only extra wear you get there is from the extra weight.
Surely everything goes through the tyres. If you're regen braking, the force is felt through the tyres no? Like engine braking but more extreme. Every input/output goes through the 4 parts touching the road..
@@44Hogarth For a given vehicle mass, speed and applied deceleration, the tire's contact patch doesn't give a damn whether the braking force is applied by regen braking, engine braking or traditional brakes. Same total amount of work regardless of how the braking load is applied to the wheel.
@@teardowndan5364that's my point, regen braking is better/more efficient/faster than engine braking. However you want to word it, decelerates the car quicker. so that force coming to a stop quicker surely effects the tyres more?
I have replaced the tires on my Tesla twice at 30k miles each. They are expensive because they are rated for 150MPH speeds, and they are relatively soft for sports car performance. They also have the foam inside. If I used less sporty tires rated for a longer mileage, I'm sure they would last longer and cost less.
oh most definitely, the acoustic foam roughly accounts to $40-$80 per tire difference (Goodyear eagle F1 255/40R20) with heavier vehicle and higher torque playing a role in accelerated tread wear. generally speaking I do advise on non low profile tires for a large majority of cases since day to day driving standard tires have way more pros than cons than that of low profile tires.
I replaced my Michelin tires on my Toyota 4Runner at 80,000 miles.
My 1993 Tbird SC runs either ZR, V or W rated tires (similar speed rating) and can get a set mounted and balanced for less than $500.
@@user-vx7vi3vq1cso proud of you
The compound in sport/sporty tires are actually a more harder compound. The reason you replace them frequently is because of the seasons those tires need to get acclimated for. Summer tires in the winter will dry rot and get soft, which is tires most EVs run with right from the factory (Pirelli).
I’ve replaced my tires on a model 3, 45k and 90k both times with a safe amount of tread left definitely could’ve pushed it further. This repeatedly stated 15-20k tire life is ridiculous. Rotate tires, monitor tire pressure and don’t drive like a race car driver and EV tire life is not an issue
You must drive like an old grandma 👵
I drive pretty aggressively but our tires haven't required changing at 15-20K. We've tended to get punctures before end of life (I blame the torque + weight), but we've had no real issues with tire wear, just tire life span.
Wonderful piece as always. Love watching your work Robert. I always feel more informed.
Enjoyed this documentary and would like to see more.!
Thank you.
Our Fiat 500e did 30k miles on 1 set of tires. Our current eGolf is 5 years old next month and still on the original tires @ 49k miles. It's much more about HOW you drive...
Love 500e, sad I must sell it
I’m at 70K km on my eGolf, it’s also one of the lighter EV batteries out there at only 200km est range
@Eric-lx8hp makes a joke out of the EVs are to heavy fud. Fiat 500e 3k lb, BMW i3 3k lb, Chevy Bolt EV 3600
@@rp9674Well hello there. Why you selling the 500e? How many miles you put on it?
@Tokamak3.1415 92k+, reduced range, getting a little tight on my return commute
The indirect of weight causes the road itself to have more repairs which means potholes cost everyone money to repair front end parts and alignment.
That's a load of crap. An extra 500-1000 lbs is going to cause an absolutely negligible amount of increased wear on roads. Most road damage is from the logistics and construction industries.
On average, 30K miles is the popular estimate for the OE set, but some Tesla car owners have reported higher ranges. It could also go down to 18K-20K miles depending on driving habits and conditions. Practically, Tesla tires last 20K - 40K miles.
- I could tell from beginning of interview that they guy who said '15k for EV tires, or even less' was not going to say anything pro-EV.
Thank you Robert for your work. It's always interesting
my Tesla model 3 LR is at 15k on the tires right now and they look in great shape.. I can likely expect 30k more. The right tire and the right EV and not burning out every stoplight will get you much further down the line.
So it's the same economies of scale and endless cycle of consumption that'll bury us all. But at least in the short term people will have progressively shinier, nicer things, even if they're all either financed or paid for month-to-month through a subscription model.
It's amazing how far car tires have come in different types through evolutions yet for the future awaits!
Interesting video. I used to drive a 2006 Chevy Avalanche. Tires on that vehicle would last maybe 20,000 miles. I currently drive a 2022 Ford Mach-e. After 27,000 miles, the tires are fine. Also, my Mach-e weighs about 1,000 lbs less than my Avalanche did. I don't get why everyone says EV's go through tires more.
Those are very different cars.
A chevy Avalanche is an absolute enormous commercial vehicle, a Mustang Mach-E is a mid-large family crossover.
if you compare similar cars than the EV will be heavier and wear through tires faster.
@@basmca1 That’s not necessarily true. It’s possible to make an EV the same weight or lighter than ICE, but you’d sacrifice range.
I’m guessing the point where they’re even is around 40kWh for a modern EV, which for me would be totally fine as a commuter car. My old Kia Soul EV has 27kWh (it’s a tad heavier than the ICE version btw but it has old battery tech and Kia didn’t try to optimised the weight on that one) and that’s totally fine for local trips and work commute.
EV car makers are still selling all the higher-end, high margin cars they can make. So they’re not yet incentivised to sell a smaller lighter cheaper car. It’d be too popular. They don’t have the battery production capacity to fill the potential demand. It will be interesting to see what battery sizes Tesla Model 2 launches with.
The Avalanche is a midsize truck. Also, my older son (RIP) used to go through tires like crazy on his Lexus SC. I’ve had the same car and have not gone through tires.
@@KaiPonte Midsize trucks don't really exist. In terms of personal vehicles trucks start at very large and only go up from there. It may not be large by truck standards, but it is gigantic in terms of personal vehicle standards.
You can't compare such a massive truck to a Mach-E in this way, they are not in the same class.
And yes how you drive matters, but when driving style is equal your tires will wear faster with an EV.
@@basmca1 Exactly. Same reason goes for why Minivans and SUVs are listed as light duty trucks. There's no real in-between. Same reason why a 06 Montana has the same towing capacity a Mach E has... They are two very different cars but still fall into the light duty truck category.
I run a tire dealership, this industry is highly competitive and low margin. I hate running this business but my dad is not going to change business.
😂
@@abhinashkumar3161
Most industries are this way….
@@abhinashkumar3161 bro you can make a logical and more informative comments rather than posting a emoji.
Try to add a higher margin service to the business. Oil changes or wipers...
@@That-Guy_ Or selling $920 a set of Korean made tires to Tesla owners.
2021 Mustang Mach-E with 37k on the OEM tires before we had to replace them thanks to idiots in LA leaving screws in the road. 3 screws in 2 tires forced us to replace our tires a little early at 37k. We would have got at least 40k off the OEM tires if we didn't get the screws.
Wear is proportional to the stress on the tire, if you have more contact area, the stress goes down. Using a larger diameter and width tire to compensate for the additional vehicle weight helps EVs decrease the rate at which they wear, as does low tread thickness.
I remember 13 inch wheels with bias ply tires for economy cars not too long ago.
Just dont go too fast...
My car has 14 inch wheels, doesn’t break the bank every time I do tires thank goodness
@@jimlong8077 I remember 6.70/15 tires that you could buy at Union 76 gas stations for $9.76 (Minute Man One tires, when I was a teen, I worked at a 76 Station, and that is what we sold them for. They worked just great on a 1950 Chevy, or my 1956 Ford Crown Victoria- so what if they were only probably 2 ply tires, at 18 yrs old, you burned 'em up at least once a month anyway)
Tesla also provides a way to decrease the amount of torque is applied to the tires in the computer settings. I have Normal and Chill modes and the Chill mode helps a lot in the wear and tear of the tires plus I rotate them often. I currently have about 13,000 miles on my 2023 Tesla Model 3 and I am not even close to tire replacement.
Wow, what an eyeopener! Thanks for this.
The emphasis on performance has made EV adoption much easier for a mostly male audience. Much of the accurately described increase in price and durability is directly related to hi performance of BEV's. Slow down and that delta is greatly reduced. It's hard for little boys to grow up ... but grow up we must.
What about the big manufacturer price fixing the market 😮
Doesnt exist. The market is too fractured.
We ought to develop a whole new structure for tires in the future, consuming rubbers faster and larger volumes like that isn’t sustainable. Waiting for genius material engineers to come up something completely different than rubber made tires.
they are trying but without gov support it wont really move into focus.
They're trying to modify some plants to produce a compound that make up a bulk portion of the tire thus reducing the rubber content. I don't remember all the details so Google it for more info, but more than 1 company is working on it.
NASA all ready develop tires that last for ever but selling those isn’t profitable so do drive profit we need tires creat waste.
Lets get rid of fossil fuel mining and introduce Cobalt and Lithium mining!!! Much safer for the environment right???? Dont even get me started with EV's tires either...
@@pimpmykek3213 *Sigh*..... yes..... because i'm sure the pollutant output of the chain of events that go into powering EV's is SOOOOO much more detrimental to the environment than that of ICE vehicles. I swear people don't use their own damn brain anymore.
Yes, mining for cobalt and lithium is not great for the environment in and of itself. It's why companies are striving to try to develop a better battery technology that doesn't rely on them. What advancements have been made in gasoline ever gas engines came to be? The removal of lead, and the addition of ethanol?
You know what else isn't great for the environment? Oil rigs burning fuel to operate in order to drill for and pump oil (Which can on rare occasion end up VERY detrimental to ocean life). Processing plants burning some kind of fuel to process crude oil into gasoline/diesel. The countless semi trucks on the road burning fuel to haul fuel to the just as countless gas stations. The then MILLIONS of ICE cars on the road burning that fuel.
The major difference is that EV's have a possibility to be "carbon neutral" if their charging source is powered by renewable energy sources, maybe not so much in their production (at this point in time), but in their following runtime.. There aren't really any other fuel sources that can approach that. Sure as hell not gasoline/diesel. Even Hydrogen hardly stands a chance. Over 90% of the hydrogen generated nowadays uses natural gas mixed with steam, which in that method creates about an 11:1 ratio of CO2 released:Hydrogen produced.
Hydrogen can also be produced by passing electricity through water, but the hydrogen generated by this method is significantly less, and as I'd hope you can gather by how the process works, how that electricity is generated matters just the same as with EV's.
This is an excellent report. Good going NBc
My BF Goodrich KO2s are on 60,000 miles an still going strong
I don't believe EVs require "special" tires, that's a scam IMO for tire manufacturers to make more money. I've seen for years hybrid vehicles wearing out tires faster. What they do require is more durable tires because they wear out tires faster than ICE vehicles because they have more torque. You just need to buy tires with higher tread wear numbers, probably higher than 600.
They also wear them out faster because they're heavier vehicles, because of the batteries.
They do require special tires. Have you heard of tread separation? You can get away with cheap tires on a light small car that weighs 2800lbs like a Sentra. Put those same tires on a 4500lb EV and they won't last a week.
It matters for range, and to a lesser degree, handling.
Engineering Explained did a video on this subject a while back:
ua-cam.com/video/8pM9o2Ifcro/v-deo.html
@@headliner733 No they don't, you just need to know what to look for. They don't require "special" tires. They require good quality tires.
It's not torque it's weight that is the issue. How are people not understanding this 😂
CNBC, you do realize that nearly every news story you do about EVs, Tesla in particular, is something you can spin as a negative. Why could that be?
If you notice when if you buy a Tesla you get less range if you get the performance package - because you generally get wider tires which have higher rolling resistance and thus require more power to turn. Also, look at the coverings, the performance tend to be much more sporty and of course can cause a little bit more drag.
The description percentajes are inverted from what was talked about in the video (cost and frequency)
Puff piece for tire companies. I owned an EV 2015-2021, put 60K on those tires and never changed the tires once, nor the brakes. Regen actually causes you to replace brakes less. Only shop visits were 1x a year for battery audit and a tire rotation.
interesting. Question: Why dont you still own an EV today?
@@hammerdown3876 Because he is lying. 🤣
Relying heavily on regen braking will save your brake pads, but will absolutely destroy your brake rotors from simple neglect. Many a Tesla owner who stuck with one-pedal driving has ended up getting the rotors replaced because the rust buildup due to a lack of use caused excessive pitting in the steel.
@free-qe6wx - yeah. I wondered. The guys who have EVs are usually "all in" and im having a hard time seeing one going back to ICE... lol
So what. I own a 2009 Dodge Caliber with 125,000 miles on it, tires changed once so that's about 62K miles on a set of skins, which cost about 250.00 for all 5 at Costco, (Michelin). Brakes were replaced once in 125K miles. It has a 12 gallon fuel tank, I get about 38 MPG on a trip, (that's about 450 Miles/tank, and it takes about 15 minutes to fill it up anywhere in the US) about 28 MPG in town (about 336 miles/tank). My dodge cost 17K dollars new. No way an EV is cheaper, or better. What happens when the batteries fail and need to be replaced? What does that cost? How much does it cost to charge batteries, and how long does it take? and don't tell me it's cheaper to charge than buy gas, AND THE INSURANCE is MORE!.
I replace my Tesla tires around every 33k miles. But I stress my tires a lot.
Excellent article, I learned a lot. Thanks.
I've been buying tires since 1973 and I have tried them all. No matter what you drive buying Michelin tires from Discount Tire has the best satisfaction and trouble free value.
The first tires I ever bought were from Discount Tire in Glendale AZ for my Chevelle. After all the places I have bought tires, I have always ended up back at Discount Tire. If your short on money their Store brand tires called Arizonian and they are great for the money.
No, I don't work for the store, but they have been treating me like a king for all these years.
In our industry "EV" is known as "Evaporating the Vulcanized"
I just made that up by the way.
Anecdotally, this isn't true. I have 75,000 miles on my 60,000 mile rated tires, with 5/32 to 7/32's throughout, despite flooring it, when safe to do so, at all green lights I find myself at the front of (Model 3 AWD with Acceleration Boost). Only rotated my tires at 60,000 miles because of an alignment issue caused by a pothole (that I wasn't able to immediately get realligned). Oh, and I still have my OEM brakes after 160,000 miles.
you drive mostly highway miles i bet.
not a fair comparison.
5:55 The battery pack on the Bolt EV holds the equivalent of 2 gallons of gas worth of energy, and the powertrain weighs about 1/3 of the ICE-specific equipment in the Cruze, which is why there's less than 400 lbs of total weight separating the two vehicles, despite the battery weight and the Bolt EV's having 25% more interior volume than the Cruze.
I’ve got 70K km on my vw eGolf , no issues
A couple of points: why does the EPA show a Chevy Cruze has a range of 438 miles - not 550. How does the tire know what is driving the axle to the wheels. If you are looking for tires that give you a very good range why would not want to use them on an ICE or an EV. This looks to me like the tire companies are looking for ways to charge you more by telling you “its a different car”. The biggest factor is the driver. Getting a good quality tire at the best price (e.g. Costco, Discount Tire, etc) is the best way to go.
No it's the fact that EVs weigh significantly more than their ICE counterparts. More weight means increased tread wear
look at your tire on your car. its has a max weight rating per tires which has to include you and fuel plus extra. so 2 tons or 4000 pounds car means 500kg a side or 1000 pounds.
How does the tire 'know' the difference between a gas engine and an electric motor? Standing torque. A gas car delivers peak torque _after_ the engine is spooled up to speed, while an electric motor delivers peak torque from a standstill.
If the car is putting peak torque into the wheels before the car has a chance to start rolling, the tire is going to feel it.
@@Trollollolollol It really depends on the car. A Tesla Model 3 RWD weighs less than a BMW 330i and they are both similar sized vehicles.
It's up to car manufacturers to redesign their platforms to better suit EV powertrains
Given how big cars have balloned and why the hell an average family EV should have 400+HP it's not surprise the tyres don't last. I had a go in a Nismo Leaf was good fun and perfect for the city enough to be perky but not overpowering for most average drivers who don't know how to handle power. I've seen stacks and stacks of smashed up Teslas and I'd hazard a guess it's the owners fault being too distracted by tech and eager on the pedal.
Not sure about the tire replacement quoted for BEV, my experience is much longer. Perhaps it’s the novelty of the performance that encouraged early adopters to go through more tires?
I remember Porsche stating will never offer rims larger than 19 inches because of increased weight especially unsprung weight affecting handling. Always go with smallest rims offered, 19 inch good compromise. Larger rims over 19 inch mean more expensive tires and rim bruising as not much rubber to protect rim. Bigger rims burn more gas and electricity. Handling more sluggish especially if car not designed for increased weight of larger rims and tires
Lift a 21 inch rim vs a 19 inch rim. Obvious difference in weight
I bought a Car with 21 inch rims. Hated the handling. I really hated the damage when I hit a small pothole that blew 2 tires and broke both rims as the tire is a condom tire. I went back to 18 inch rims after that $2000 adventure. More rubber more protection. I can travel over a curb with rim damage. Very hard to bruise a rim with 18 inch tires
in my opinion, this is old media serving old industry.
Not gonna lie CNBC is the only news place I’d subscribe to. These videos are so quality
filmed with quality but the information isn't quality. I've caught them in a couple of either lies or misinformed truths before
This video is total nonsense. Your news sources are not serving you well.
@@ChrisWehadababyitsaboy I know right? what is the point if they are out to misinform, they should change their name to CNBS
On my model S, I did go through my first set of tires quickly because of quick starts. After that, I drove more “chill” and my tires last just as long as my tires on my ICE vehicles. I also buy the same tires that go on my ICE. Cross climate 2’s.
I use regular tires on my Model 3, specifically Michelin CrossClimate 2, still have them after 2 years, and (only) 15000 miles (yes, I don't drive too fast or too much, I live in a small-ish city). I did a rotation at 10000 miles, but so far they look great. I don't think I'll need to change them in less than 2 years. One other interesting thing, the tire pressure specification for Tesla Model 3 indicate a 42PSI level for all of them (rather than the common standard of 32), and this makes them lose less tread over time, I noticed. I'm a noob when it comes to cars, so please comment if you think I'm mistaken about the pressure. It's just my observation, it might be another reason they last longer.
42 is high. so you got your cold temp you should check and then check again after you drive. 42 psi makes you feel the bumps more but does not sag under load. you can plus around with it and try 35 or sub 40 while hot. do a 1000 miles on different psi (if car dont complain and see). yu dont want to go below 30 or above 45.
@@markk3453If the pressure falls under 40, I get a warning on the screen. Really annoying. Also if it goes over 45.
"10:30 Tesla burns through its tires in 15K miles". That is a false statement! My dual motor Model 3 tires lasted me over 35K miles, and a friend of mine replaced his tires after 60K miles
Agreed, my EV got 43K on its last set of tires. I don't drive like a crazy person, but I'm not babying the tires either. Just regular driving. People wearing out tires in 15K miles are not driving like normal people.
Yes, we're getting >30,000 miles on our Tesla model 3 and my wife's model Y.
lol fan boys…
I think your statement is false. They all have low profile tires. Low pros don't last long at all. My high profile tires on my big Lincoln lasted 83,000 miles. Michelins to be exact.
@@headliner733 I replaced Pilot Sports 4AS after 47k miles with 4/32 and 6/32 left (never rotated) on Model 3 due to noise of the tire. If I rotated likely end up with 55k miles for 4/32 front/rear. Your statement on "they all have low profile tires" are false. If the person puts on low profile summer tires and drive/corners/fast then it'll last 15k miles with these cars going from 0-60 in 4 seconds or less.
Funny how they compare worst EV to best Ice car versions lol. I guess they can exaggerate by a lot this way but hey it sells.
Bot
This is why mainstream media is dying, no reliable source of information
Boy😊 13:57
Why didn't they compare the weight of the hummer EV vs the Hummer ICE? I mean they are both well known to be ridiculously big, but let's compare apples to apple.
@@controlsfreekbc there isn’t a hummer ICE anymore, and comparing a car that is over a decade old to one that is brand new is now another apples to oranges comment
8:57 shoutout @TheStraightPipes
I have a ‘19 kia niro and I’ve always thought it was sluggish and slow to accelerate. But I’ve never floored it. 😂 love the car btw.
I’m at 70,000 with just four new tires around 40,000.
Have a 19 Niro as well, and I got a bit of a lead foot. Honestly, the Niro is pretty zippy in sport mode. 5 years in and 73k miles, I still have the OE tires on it. Same cannot be said for my Ford Fusion, which eats up tires every 20k miles, and I've done 45k miles in that.
My wife replaced the Michelin on her Tesla Model Y P rear tires @ just before 50,000 miles her fronts are fine. In my former Model S Plaid, I went through a 4-wheel set ($1600) @ around 12K but I was constantly trying to hit 2 seconds 0-60. Which tells you if you are responsible (not me) with acceleration and have the right car (non-performance) your tires will last longer
So people are complaining their cars are too quick? I remember folks used to have to pay extra to get a quicker car .-. how time has changed huh Lmao
Then they should ease up on the throttle...people are just STUPID!
To be Fair they are paying way extra for an Ev lol.
If everyone had a car that did 0-60 in 5 seconds the highways would be crazy, average people would create more hectic situations more often! There's already reports that EVs are more likely to cause more accidents.
EVs don’t need special tires as long as the specs are met.
Some OEMs fit their cars with special tires with foam inserts which cost more. But it’s not a requirement.
A 3500lb car tire and a 6500 lb car tire are very different.
@@jeffreylyons1531Comparable cars. A Model 3 weighs less than an ICE BMW 3 series. BMWs have blown up in weight. Look how much the XM weighs - the thing needs a diet. If car manufacturers had better drivetrains they wouldn't need to carry huge 100+KWH batteries - a simple 60 would suffice.
They dont need special tires as long as the tires have special specs? Wow
Special tires and specs are met is the same thing genius
Actually EV do need the EV rated tires because EVs have higher rolling resistance/friction which creates alot of road and tire noise if the sound deafening foam isn’t in the tire. I can’t tell you how many Teslas with aftermarket tires I had to diagnose for this exact issue of tire noise.
My 5-year-old, 40k mile BMW i3S is still on its original set of front tires, and has only worn through one set of rears. It's actually relatively *easy* on its tires.
A lot of it is based on your driving style, and EVs do exaggerate that. Instant torque means they can cause more friction during acceleration if you put your foot down, but regenerative braking allows much smoother deceleration than when using the friction brakes. Drive hard and you'll get unusually high tire wear, drive smooth and you'll get unusually low tire wear. Weight doesn't necessarily matter, as heavier vehicles tend to be sold with stronger tires.
Definitely agreed that those tires are bloody expensive though.
My 2000 ford explorer has Goodyear wrangler duratrac tires that I've beat on living in the country in Iowa. 52k on the tires and just under half tread. Best tires I've owned.
So regenerative breaking is harder on tires compared to mechanical breaking? Hmmmm i'd like to hear the reasoning behind that. In my experience driving behind ice vehicles, the ice vehicles are usually breaking a lot harder than max Regen.
Just like how they said tires on a Tesla only last 15,000 miles. A bunch of nonsense.
This is why I want to buy the most efficient EV possible and drive it slowly. Right now the most efficient is the model 3.
But then you wouldn't experience the joy of flooring it and leaving all noisy ICE cars in the dust.
I’ve seen cars from different manufacturers that have tires wear out at 15k miles. It’s not a driver related issues, it’s just manufactures being cheap and putting crap tires on cars.
(Btw I work in a automotive shop)
36,000 on my OE tires on my Model Y….still tread left until probably 45,000 miles.
The same thing happened when SUVs became popular and then when pickups became popular.
Agree, I had to check the name to see if this was a post I made
Wait until cheap evs are introduced in the western markets, now the fast and expensive are the main evs. Then the highest volume sales will be cheaper cars and they are slower…. Then the average use of ev tires would go down. It’s not a real comparison at the moment.
And despite the low growth, Michelin and Pirelli continue to innovate. Yoko and Bridgestone continue to be somewhat value choices with other brands making the budget end. Even today, if I were to go for a tyre change, one of my 1st questions would be if they have a suitable Michelin
I used standard Pilot Sports AS4 tire (not as efficient as low rolling EV tires but cheaper) on Model 3, got 47k miles out of it with 4/32 front and 6/32 rear, never rotated.
I don't know if rotating the tire is worth doing time or $75 (mobile tech home visit) since rotated tires would likely end up with 5/32.
Swapped out because it was making too much noise, not due to thread wear.
If you accelerate/corners/stops fast then it's going to wear out the tires more.
15k miles on a Tesla? I have 30k on a Performance Y and the tires are still good.
That's what I'm saying. 60k miles from my first set of tires.
There is also no way the tires are lasting 12k. I have 200k miles on a tesla model s, 20k on a f150 lightning, and 30k on another ev. The tesla averages I would say around 45K and its a rwd car. The lightning isnt even halfway worn yet. These number much like that hummer comparison seems off
This video highlights why it's important to get the right tires for your vehicle. A regular tire vs one intended for EVs has a different formulation, it's tested different, it wears different. A lot of EV tires are lower rolling resistance than a non-EV tire, and may also be designed to tolerate hard acceleration better than a cheap tire from Discount Tire or similar.
Our 2020 Tesla Model 3 standard range plus is still on its OEM tires at 40k, with plenty of tread still left.
Better, why do gasoline companies love CNB(?C?).
People don't understand there are 2 types of EVs (and owners): Those who go fast/heavy, and then those who hypermill for max range. Hypermillers need low rolling resistance tires (e.g. Bridgestone Ecopia). Low rolling resistance tires have generally lower grip, and lower grip means less rubber used over the years.
But those who can make better low rolling resistance tires (like the Ecopia) will strike a gold mine - carmakers need these tires to hit max advertised range, and so do many owners.
I've been driving a Toyota Rav4 Prime PHEV for the last 9 months, and now have 10,400 miles on it. About 40% of the mileage has been in EV mode. I drive very conservatively, because here in California we have the most expensive gas (and diesel fuel) in the country, at $5.20/gallon average. The Rav4 ICE model has a curb weight of 3,615 lbs. The Prime has an 18 kW-hr lithium traction battery, and a curb weight around 4,235 pounds, about 600 pounds more. The OEM tires are Dunlop Grand Trek brand. They look like standard ribbed highway tires like you would see on 90% of all sedans and small SUV's. I don't know if they are supposed to be "EV" tires, I suspect not. They're probably just whatever Toyota could get on a lowest-bidder bulk tire purchase. The size is 215/60-R18. I have not seen abnormally fast tread wear so far, they seem to be holding up about the same as the OEM tires on the Subaru Outback I owned from 2014 to 2019. When they do wear out, I plan to replace them with all-terrains, probably Falken Wild Peak or Yokohama Geolanders; this will reduce the fuel economy a little, but thy will be better in wet weather, and be more puncture and cut resistant.
Summer Michelin Tires on my 2020 Model 3 performance lasted 25,000 miles. Show me an ICE sedan that goes 3.1 seconds to 60 and has tires that will last longer…I’ll wait.
🧐I own a Tesla M3. 80,000 miles and I just put on my 3rd set of tires. Where are these people getting their information from. That’s 40,000 miles per set!
You know what an outlier is, right?
@@zacharybohlman4069 It’s disappointing that an outlier is given this CNBC audience to sway potential buyers.
Just use public transit! It’s cheaper, better for the environment and you don’t have to deal with tire changes
But you then have to deal with the crazies and homeless!
Good idea it probably would have less than 2 hours to my travel time, 5 days a week
but you do have to deal with other ppl XD
Ppl r the worst
I prefer my commute to be stabbing and urination/defecation free.
A decade later, tire companies are still not ready for EVs. What a shame!!
@09:10 how would regenerative braking contribute to tire consumption in ways normal breaks don't?
Hear me out… tires made out of stone. Not trying to reinvent the wheel here guys..
May be this video is sponsored by oil and tire companies. CNBC should realize that technology will develop overtime. The batteries will become light weight and EV's will be much more eco friendly than ICE cars. If any one travels through a busy street in india, with all the black smoke coming out of vehicles will understand the value of EV's.
I have a friend who has a Tesla.He loves the performance and the way it drives. When he had his first tire change he noticed the the tires don't last as long as his previous car, and they cost more.
I've owned and driven high performance gasoline engine cars with HP in the range of 600HP. Because of the torque the tires were not lasting as long as with my regular type cars.
I have a Tesla 25,000 on original tires. I just rotated them. Tech advised they have one year. Car is one year old.
The irony of wanting cars to be more energy efficient while continually making them heavier and heavier...
This really isn’t the slam dunk against EV’s that you think it is.
Inaccurate. Consider ICE vehicles have a _pathetically_ low 20% efficiency. You'd have to make an EV a dozen metric tons to bring EV's efficiency that low.
That said, EV battery pack gravimetric densities are continuously increasing.
@@beyondfossil Increasing in energy density and longevity. Batteries in 50 years might last for 600k miles and have a 500-600 mile range on average. That and cost will be probably half of what it is now... once economies of scale and production are able to ramp.
@@beyondfossil Thus creating more wear and tear on tires. I see more electric vehicles in our tire shop than anything so please do come back more.😂 not even being more efficient now but creating more waste in other areas
@@davew2040x Sure it is. More microplastics from tire wear, more brake dust fine particulate matter pollution. Tire production is not a clean business.
This is why I like the design of the new 400-mile range EV Aptera that uses regular tires because it weighs less than 2200 lbs. It is aerodynamic and made of Carbon Fiber.
I'm not seeing this the tire wear thing on my Tesla cars. In fact the same model tire wore out on my gas Cadillac ATS at about 20k miles and my Tesla Model 3 long range already has 30k on them and still has good tread. However, the ATS ran at 35psi and my Tesla uses 42psi. Could that extra psi be causing them to last longer? The tires are not special EV tires, they are the same ones I used on the ATS.
There is a lot of inconsistencies in this video. The presenter states that tires need to by replaced 20% more often. The description of the video states replacement is 50% more often. The audio clip of John Healy at 10:26 gives the mileage range of 12,000-15,000 miles for EVs versus 40,000-50,000 miles for ICE. By my crappy math that is about 300% more often.
I would think a good solution to the tire wear issue would be a selectable drive mode where torque is software limited particularly when starting out from a dead stop.