Been a big Orange Juice/Edwyn fan. This is my fave Orange Juice album as I think it was their most mature collection of songs. Actually loved Edwyn’s solo album, Hope and Despair, for similar reasons. Totally with you as regards “What Presence?!”, which I heard first in buying the 7”. Love the lyric and I couldn’t agree more about the guitar playing on the track.
Hi Phil, Thank you so much for your comments as regards ‘The Orange Juice’. I am very pleased you watched this review and took the time to write to me 🙏 Yes, ‘What Presence?!’ is such a wonderful song and I do agree that the album, as a whole, is a strong collection. I am a big fan of ‘Hope and Despair’ too and it’s perhaps an album I will get to one day on the channel. Best wishes, Chris
Thank You Fantastic review , Great Album Criminally underrated band Everyone needs to own Orange Juice All 3 Albums Too Sensitive , Artisans and of course What Presence ? Are all incredible songs and i am sure Edwyn was a favorite among musicians Although not cited often this band has influenced a whole generation Love this video looking to forward to more insightful reviews
Hi Jesse 👋 I am so pleased to hear you enjoyed my review for you. Your very kind words meant a great deal, so thank you very much for taking the time to write to me 🙏 Your fave song picks from this album are all excellent, and yes they are a very criminally underrated group who have influenced many artists (Franz Ferdinand immediately spring to mind). I hope you have a great weekend! Best wishes, Christian
@@TheVinylSanctuary i just gave you a shout out on Capo Fetish channel , Tom did video on bands that released 3 seminal Albums and then split Orange Juice fit that perfectly
@@jessem470 Thanks so much for the shoutout, Jesse - sincerely appreciated 🙏 Yes, I saw Tom’s vid land and I have commented to say I’m looking forward to watching it; however, I haven’t had the opportunity to do so as yet. I am hoping to get to it over the course of the weekend; then I will comment accordingly. Best wishes, Christian
I always felt that Edwyn Collins and Morrissey existed in parallel yet never touching universes, connected only vicariously. I could imagine Morrissey says that Orange Juice barely registered for him in the same manner he dismissed Joy Division. I remember back in the day an overlap but also a passionate micro generational divide between Orange Juice and early onset Smiths fans. It is kind of interesting to recall the both James, when they were good, and The June Brides supported The Smiths on different tours...and that Marine Girls support Orange Juice, that Grab Grab the Haddock support James and New Order. That all dots between were joined up.
Hi Layla, Many thanks for posting such a thought-provoking comment 🙏 Do you think Morrissey dismissed Joy Division and, hypothetically, Orange Juice/Edwyn Collins because he felt threatened by them in some way, or was jealous of their talents/abilities? It’s so interesting you mention that some Orange Juice fans crossed over into becoming Smiths fans as well, yet others perhaps felt they were staying loyal to their beloved Orange Juice by keeping the great pretenders from Manchester at arm’s length… I feel I would have been a fan of both groups, but it’s difficult to say. Where did your loyalties lie, and I’m assuming you’re based/originally from the UK? I only ask as a number of my subscribers are from North America. It’s interesting too that you say ‘James, when they were good’… When did you think James stopped being good? I’m curious to know as I have enjoyed all their music right back to ‘Stutter’, but I have my own favourite period of the band. I love both The June Brides and The Smiths. The Marine Girls are a name I’m familiar with but don’t know a great deal about, and Grab Grab the Haddock are a new name entirely! I like how all the bands you listed have dots that can be joined to each other 😊👍🏻 Best wishes, Christian
@@TheVinylSanctuary "by them in some way, or was jealous" I think Morrissey's understanding of what kind of band the Smiths were was very different than the understanding of Smiths fans...I think he had vision of himself as a superstar pop idol which was at olds with his indie ghetto origins, thus, I think he would've understood Edwyn as something-like an ernest but low achiever. Also, it is often forgotten...but hardly anyone listerned to the Smith prior to the Queen is Dead. They really weren't popular Regarding James, I saw them a couple of times 1985, once supporting the Smiths. They were so so good. The same but different. Tim Booth had an energy and a lightness...I think later it became formulaic and diluted. So, when I say "when they were good" I mean those handful of tracks released on Factory Records, as singles and the EP...by the time of Stutter, well it seemed somehow a very different tone and resonance, it felt very different and the world had moved on and James seemed very predestrian. There are a few clips of earlyish James on UA-cam, maybe you can get a sense of what I mean. "their beloved Orange Juice by keeping the great pretenders from Manchester at arm’s length…" I always liked and owned Orange Juice records but I was and am more of a Josef K fan. I got into the Smiths upon the release of This Charming Man in 1983 and saw them for the first time at Glastonbury the following year amongst a very small and partly disinterested audience, on a side stage where they performed a very short afternoon set. I knew people, diehard Orange Juice fans, who were perhaps diehard Associates, Passage, old Subway Sect and Magazine, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Go-Betweens fans also, and also fans still mourning Joy Division...who had originally thought that the Smiths would be that same aloof and moody and prehaps mysterious kind of Northern pop group and were a bit thrown by Morrissey to the point that they couldn't take him seriously by the time the debute album came out. So 'pretender' maybe near the mark. Equally, Morrissey was a different kind of heart throb to Edwyn or even Ian McCulloch. Grab Grab the Haddock was at the time one of my very favorites...Jane and Alice Fox of the Marine Girls after Tracey Thorn moved to Hull and formed Everything But The Girl. There are no Grab Grab the Haddock albums so it is perhaps understandable that they never made your radar...another band like Mighty Mighty or Eton Crop or Big Flame who peaked before 1986...I saw Grab Grab the Haddock as a kind of skiffle band, they were very much a live band but their records have moments of imperfect perfection. The song 'The Last Fond Goodbye'... I hope at least you try the Marine Girls on for size...
@@TheVinylSanctuary PS for the purposes of transparency this is actually Sean, using my partner's account, because our teenaged daughter glitched my own : )
@@Layla-kd4ui I am really enjoying this conversation 😊👍🏻 I particularly enjoyed reading your insights into Morrissey’s own relationship with ‘idol status’ and how that perhaps lay in stark contrast with the thoughts and feelings of his band’s supporters. Interesting too that you state Morrissey wouldn’t have seen Edwyn as much of a threat, due to his own sense of importance. Thank you also for the further clarification as regards James. It was fascinating to read about your take on the band in the early days, and I will take a look on UA-cam to see if I can find some really early performances 👍🏻 Yes, I am a big fan of Josef K too. I love their aesthetic and I find their music very compelling. It’s so mind-blowing to hear of a person’s experience watching The Smiths live and the crowd being disinterested. Due to how their fandom and status exists in my own mind, given my age, it’s very grounding to read that, like all bands at one point or another, their fan base was still growing (or not even really there yet). I also really enjoyed reading that some fans of a truly excellent list of groups you mentioned may not have taken Morrissey completely seriously, in that he may have been touted to be one thing by music lovers but ended up being something else entirely. This post of yours has given me a lot of food for thought, for which I am grateful. Interesting you mention Mac too, as I don’t think he had much time for Morrissey. I really appreciated you providing further info as regards Grab Grab The Haddock (great name!) - especially as I like EBTG a lot and I have ‘A Distant Shore’ by Tracey Thorn on vinyl… I really should have showed that record off on my 1982 ranking vid 😔 ‘Imperfect perfection’ is such a brilliant phrase. I will also add the Marine Girls to my listening pile and I thank you for the recommendation. Best wishes, Christian
😎 🧡 👏
🙏🧡😊
Been a big Orange Juice/Edwyn fan. This is my fave Orange Juice album as I think it was their most mature collection of songs. Actually loved Edwyn’s solo album, Hope and Despair, for similar reasons. Totally with you as regards “What Presence?!”, which I heard first in buying the 7”. Love the lyric and I couldn’t agree more about the guitar playing on the track.
Hi Phil,
Thank you so much for your comments as regards ‘The Orange Juice’. I am very pleased you watched this review and took the time to write to me 🙏
Yes, ‘What Presence?!’ is such a wonderful song and I do agree that the album, as a whole, is a strong collection.
I am a big fan of ‘Hope and Despair’ too and it’s perhaps an album I will get to one day on the channel.
Best wishes,
Chris
Thank You
Fantastic review , Great Album Criminally underrated band
Everyone needs to own Orange Juice All 3 Albums
Too Sensitive , Artisans and of course What Presence ? Are all incredible songs and i am sure Edwyn was a favorite among musicians
Although not cited often this band has influenced a whole generation
Love this video looking to forward to more insightful reviews
Hi Jesse 👋
I am so pleased to hear you enjoyed my review for you. Your very kind words meant a great deal, so thank you very much for taking the time to write to me 🙏
Your fave song picks from this album are all excellent, and yes they are a very criminally underrated group who have influenced many artists (Franz Ferdinand immediately spring to mind).
I hope you have a great weekend!
Best wishes,
Christian
@@TheVinylSanctuary i just gave you a shout out on Capo Fetish channel , Tom did video on bands that released 3 seminal Albums and then split
Orange Juice fit that perfectly
@@jessem470 Thanks so much for the shoutout, Jesse - sincerely appreciated 🙏
Yes, I saw Tom’s vid land and I have commented to say I’m looking forward to watching it; however, I haven’t had the opportunity to do so as yet.
I am hoping to get to it over the course of the weekend; then I will comment accordingly.
Best wishes,
Christian
I always felt that Edwyn Collins and Morrissey existed in parallel yet never touching universes, connected only vicariously. I could imagine Morrissey says that Orange Juice barely registered for him in the same manner he dismissed Joy Division. I remember back in the day an overlap but also a passionate micro generational divide between Orange Juice and early onset Smiths fans. It is kind of interesting to recall the both James, when they were good, and The June Brides supported The Smiths on different tours...and that Marine Girls support Orange Juice, that Grab Grab the Haddock support James and New Order. That all dots between were joined up.
Hi Layla,
Many thanks for posting such a thought-provoking comment 🙏 Do you think Morrissey dismissed Joy Division and, hypothetically, Orange Juice/Edwyn Collins because he felt threatened by them in some way, or was jealous of their talents/abilities? It’s so interesting you mention that some Orange Juice fans crossed over into becoming Smiths fans as well, yet others perhaps felt they were staying loyal to their beloved Orange Juice by keeping the great pretenders from Manchester at arm’s length…
I feel I would have been a fan of both groups, but it’s difficult to say. Where did your loyalties lie, and I’m assuming you’re based/originally from the UK? I only ask as a number of my subscribers are from North America.
It’s interesting too that you say ‘James, when they were good’… When did you think James stopped being good? I’m curious to know as I have enjoyed all their music right back to ‘Stutter’, but I have my own favourite period of the band. I love both The June Brides and The Smiths. The Marine Girls are a name I’m familiar with but don’t know a great deal about, and Grab Grab the Haddock are a new name entirely!
I like how all the bands you listed have dots that can be joined to each other 😊👍🏻
Best wishes,
Christian
@@TheVinylSanctuary "by them in some way, or was jealous" I think Morrissey's understanding of what kind of band the Smiths were was very different than the understanding of Smiths fans...I think he had vision of himself as a superstar pop idol which was at olds with his indie ghetto origins, thus, I think he would've understood Edwyn as something-like an ernest but low achiever. Also, it is often forgotten...but hardly anyone listerned to the Smith prior to the Queen is Dead. They really weren't popular
Regarding James, I saw them a couple of times 1985, once supporting the Smiths. They were so so good. The same but different. Tim Booth had an energy and a lightness...I think later it became formulaic and diluted. So, when I say "when they were good" I mean those handful of tracks released on Factory Records, as singles and the EP...by the time of Stutter, well it seemed somehow a very different tone and resonance, it felt very different and the world had moved on and James seemed very predestrian. There are a few clips of earlyish James on UA-cam, maybe you can get a sense of what I mean.
"their beloved Orange Juice by keeping the great pretenders from Manchester at arm’s length…" I always liked and owned Orange Juice records but I was and am more of a Josef K fan. I got into the Smiths upon the release of This Charming Man in 1983 and saw them for the first time at Glastonbury the following year amongst a very small and partly disinterested audience, on a side stage where they performed a very short afternoon set.
I knew people, diehard Orange Juice fans, who were perhaps diehard Associates, Passage, old Subway Sect and Magazine, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Go-Betweens fans also, and also fans still mourning Joy Division...who had originally thought that the Smiths would be that same aloof and moody and prehaps mysterious kind of Northern pop group and were a bit thrown by Morrissey to the point that they couldn't take him seriously by the time the debute album came out. So 'pretender' maybe near the mark. Equally, Morrissey was a different kind of heart throb to Edwyn or even Ian McCulloch.
Grab Grab the Haddock was at the time one of my very favorites...Jane and Alice Fox of the Marine Girls after Tracey Thorn moved to Hull and formed Everything But The Girl. There are no Grab Grab the Haddock albums so it is perhaps understandable that they never made your radar...another band like Mighty Mighty or Eton Crop or Big Flame who peaked before 1986...I saw Grab Grab the Haddock as a kind of skiffle band, they were very much a live band but their records have moments of imperfect perfection. The song 'The Last Fond Goodbye'... I hope at least you try the Marine Girls on for size...
@@TheVinylSanctuary PS for the purposes of transparency this is actually Sean, using my partner's account, because our teenaged daughter glitched my own : )
@@Layla-kd4ui I am really enjoying this conversation 😊👍🏻 I particularly enjoyed reading your insights into Morrissey’s own relationship with ‘idol status’ and how that perhaps lay in stark contrast with the thoughts and feelings of his band’s supporters. Interesting too that you state Morrissey wouldn’t have seen Edwyn as much of a threat, due to his own sense of importance.
Thank you also for the further clarification as regards James. It was fascinating to read about your take on the band in the early days, and I will take a look on UA-cam to see if I can find some really early performances 👍🏻
Yes, I am a big fan of Josef K too. I love their aesthetic and I find their music very compelling. It’s so mind-blowing to hear of a person’s experience watching The Smiths live and the crowd being disinterested. Due to how their fandom and status exists in my own mind, given my age, it’s very grounding to read that, like all bands at one point or another, their fan base was still growing (or not even really there yet).
I also really enjoyed reading that some fans of a truly excellent list of groups you mentioned may not have taken Morrissey completely seriously, in that he may have been touted to be one thing by music lovers but ended up being something else entirely. This post of yours has given me a lot of food for thought, for which I am grateful. Interesting you mention Mac too, as I don’t think he had much time for Morrissey.
I really appreciated you providing further info as regards Grab Grab The Haddock (great name!) - especially as I like EBTG a lot and I have ‘A Distant Shore’ by Tracey Thorn on vinyl… I really should have showed that record off on my 1982 ranking vid 😔 ‘Imperfect perfection’ is such a brilliant phrase. I will also add the Marine Girls to my listening pile and I thank you for the recommendation.
Best wishes,
Christian
@@Layla-kd4ui It’s very nice to meet you, Sean and I will refer to you as Sean from now on in our correspondence 🤝