There's something else that I feel is worth mentioning. In the intro video, the Silver Knight seen drawing his silver knight straight sword to challenge the dragon is very clearly left handed. The only character in all of Dark Souls that is universally accepted as left handed is Knight Artorias. This would also mean that at least Artorias and probably also Ornstein were silver knights before they distinguished themselves, and I also find it likely that Ciaran was the captain of the Lord's Blades, Ornstein commanded the spear Silver Knights, Gough commanded the Dragonslayer Greatbow artillery, and Artorias lead the straight sword Silver Knights before he was lost to the Abyss and Gough retired, putting all Silver Knights under the command of Dragonslayer Ornstein. Just an interesting thought.
***** Yeah, that's the problem with Dark Souls lore, everything is speculation. Makes for some jolly good fun putting it all together, though. But as a counterpoint, it makes sense that the Old Dragonslayer literally IS Dragonslayer Ornstein, brought back by some kind of dark power. He has a very similar attack pattern to Ornstein, and uses the same weapon and armor, but uses darkness instead of lightning. This could mean that his soul fell into the possession of another, who used a hex to bring him back. This would explain his altered appearance and dark magic. Another interesting theory I stumbled on is that the Ornstein at Anor Londo is an illusion generated by Gwyndolin. The Giant Lords fled Anor Londo, and Gwynevere could have come to Drangleic, in which case Ornstein would have come with her as her protector (the giants at the the Tower of Flame also look suspiciously like worn out Sentinels). Given that Artorias was corrupted by the Abyss and also gained an alternate appearance and power over dark magic, Ornstein could have succumb to the Abyss as well, making the Old Dragonslayer. After Ornstein absorbs Smough, he gets much larger with his massive increase in power, so the fact that the Old Dragonslayer is bigger than base Ornstein could mean that absorbing Abyss power also made him bigger and stronger. Regardless, while it's possible that Ornstein and the Old Dragonslayer could have both been captains of the spear knights, it's also extremely likely that they're the same person.
I'm not actually convinced that Artorias was really left handed, he isn't on the box art for prepare to die and the chosen undead and do this special moves without the sword being left handed in DS1. That being said, that is a really cool theory on some added detail in the opening cutscene, I'm just not sure since the left handed thing left more like a retconned detail in DS2 DLC no less
I disagree with you, it's pretty agreed that Artorias was left handed from the minute players got to fight him and begin to put details together. You use his sword right-handed in DS1 because the game wouldn't let you do otherwise. And while Artorias may or may not be the one on the original cover, no other character in DS was left-handed, and the armor the person is wearing doesn't match any in-game set, which is why it's thought that the cover represents Artorias entering the Abyss in New Londo for the first time, before he got his Abysswalker title (and likely new armor). I just feel like if they went out of their way to make a left-handed silver-knight in the intro, it's probably significant lore-wise.
Enzar17 I just don't follow. Sure Artorias had to be right handed because the game made him but that just means he is right handed. I can see no in game evidence than he is anything but. if you can show me these forums and discussion I would love to scroll through them. But here is where my big issue is anyway. The majestic greatsword in DS2 has a special moveset if you use it left handed as keeping with the mythos of DS. All cool, i could even go with Artorias being left handed. If that is the case then how does Artorias have access to the left handed moveset while using the sword right handed? The obvious answer, to me at least, is in DS1 they made his moveset then new director for DS2 they ignored logic to add a cool lore tidbit and it made a plot hole
Oh god..this video hit me right in the damn feels....-sobs- poor four knights...... Ornstein, pride and strength of a Lion, defending the source of his pride until his last breath, yet he goes down with no regrets in his heart, honour being maintained until the last moment. Gough, eyes of a hawk, his gaze pieces all, choosing to spend his final days creating many things, hope (when he removes Kalameet's flying advantage) works of art, learned from a dear old friend. Artorias, agile and strong as the wolf, always choosing to fight against whatever dangers the world through at him, even after his corruption as he still hunts down Abyss tainted humans of Oolacile . Lastly Ciaran, striking with the speed and accuracy of Hornet's, always with love in her heart for the one person she placed above all others but never revealing her emotions, until fate ultimately plunges a dagger into her chances, executing them with out mercy. Excuse me while I go cry manly tears of over whelming emotions.
Also Ornstein is much sadder than that. He is stuck defending an illusion of the princess along with an executioner so disgusting, he is unfit to be a knight. His captain who he has taken so much inspiration from has abandoned him and he is doomed to die at the hand of a lowly undead.
Furvius Garfield I have a few problems with that theory, one being that when you touch ornstein, he doesn’t disappear like Gwynevere. Also, when you go to where the nameless king resides and where Ornstein armor lays, you get there by meditating. Usually when you go anywhere far away, you’re taken by something, however you’re given no explanation as to how you got there, you drift off, hear a screeching noise after the screen fades to black, and then you’re all of a sudden just there. That couples with the strange physics there like ringing the bell making a rainstorm with solid clouds and whatnot makes it seem sorta like a dream, and ringing the bell turns it into a nightmare. Maybe it connects back to Oscars words in dark souls 1 “when thou ringth the bell of awakening, the fate of the undead thou shalt know”.
44theshadow i haven't fought artorias yet but i was happy the boss fight ended, but i killed ornstein last so i could cosplay and i don't want ornstein to be brutalized by smough when ornstein dies
iDisturbedDemon I wonder what they thought when they started to make Dark souls. "Hey guys, Let's make a game that is really hard and let's make it really depressive!"
I think that Ornstein and Gough earned their honors in the Dragon War, after Gough and his archers ground the dragons Orstein and his spear-men then finish the dragons with their lightning spears. As for Artorias and Ciaran, they most likely earned their honors in the Occult Rebellion, with Artorias leading the loyalist vanguard and Ciaran leading the loyalist spooks that assassinated the mortal leaders of the rebels.
Most of the four knights have silver knights that brandish their weapons: spear, sword, and greatbow. Ciaran, however doesn't have a silver knight counterpart. Maybe she does have a group of assassins, but they were not repurposed as knights after she passed on. What if the Lord's Blades happened to change attire after Ciaran left and took up the role of the painted guardians. The painted guardians seem to mirror Ciaran's use of 2 short swords and they move like assassins unlike any other enemy in Anor Londo. There is no connection to between the painted guardians and the Lord's Blades, but I found it odd that they Ciaran wouldn't have some followers if all the other knights still had them.
+GoldenPhoenix497 Actually that's a good point...while the other knights all retain essentially the exact same arms and training they had, just re-purposed, and they likely would have remembered/been taught their original functions since they are similar... It is said that the painting guardians have long forgotten why they guard the painting. If the Lord's Blades participated in the original quelling of the Occult rebellion, and the remnants of it being subsequently sealed in the painting, then it's quite feasible that, having no further purpose as assassins, they were tasked with guarding the painting. That is a function quite different from sneaking about in the night, assassinating threats, as you now have to be visible deterrents against a stationary location being trespassed on. It seems reasonable that over time the descendants would have forgotten the reason for their strange martial arts movements, which no longer serve much function in terrifying people with flashing colored sheen's from the blades, but are still effective at striking enemies down swiftly. Likewise, they probably had new weapons more suited to a Guardian role instead of assassins role created, given that you never find a similar weapon to the Tracers.
+Zetro Hermit Also note the ivory ponytail shared by both Painting Guardians and Ciaran. I think it's fairly safe to say that the Painting Guardians were an offshoot of the Lord's Blades.
This has be my favorite lore in all of the dark souls franchise(is that right, I dont know XD). But, good job explaining the breif lore on the four knights. Keep up the good work.
Im not sure if the four Knights really have or need a Leader. It seems to be more like Gwyn's Knights are all Leaders of the different Groups. Ornstein is the Leader of the Royal Guard, Artorias is the Leader of the Silver Knights who fought the darkness but lost at the very end, even though they managed to slow its advance, Gough is obviously the Leader of the Archers and Ciaran is Gwyn's Assassin. Like a Warcouncil or something. x..x
Am I the only one who wants to see the battle with dragons vs those four knights, like a opening cinematic which would showcase it clearly. That would be so awesome.
FROM SOFTWARE needs to make a show or movie trilogy about finding the lord souls, fighting with the dragons, and linking the fire for the first time. Right now, if you would sirs.
+Lobster with Mustard and Rice I know, right? I like his vids UCH better than that Silver guy. He just rambles on and on and doesn't even edit out his many bloopers.
I would say that during the war against the dragons only Ornstein and Gough became knights and because nobody likes giants Ornstein was the leader. I think that Artorias and Cirian became knights during the Occult Rebellion, because their items never mention dragon slaying and also a greatsword and daggers seem a bit ineffective against dragons with stone scales, but they are good weapons against human size enemies. Also, the Occult Rebellion wasn't just yesterday so there was enough time to forge the band of friendship between them. Also I think that Ornsteins "superpower" wasn't just his great skill with lightning. His ability to increase his size would be pretty useful against large enemies. Think about fighting Kalameet or Ancient Dragon, but you would be as huge as Super Ornstein. It would be a lot easier to kill them right?
I find it likely that Ornstein, after everyone left Anor Londo and he alone was there to protect the illusion of Gwynewere and the Lord Vessel, he bestowed a shard of his soul to Smough and that he's actually smaller when Smough is alive rather than his normal size, which can be seen with super Ornstein.
OkamiXCeleste I don't know where but there is an item description saying Artorias does extra damage against Darkwraiths. He clearly was there keeping the Darkwraiths at bay before New Londo was flooded. Whether New Londo and Oolacile were happening at the same time is up for debate
Are we on the same schedule or something? I'm working on my "Abysswalker" video right now which will touch base on the four knights. Anyway, another interesting video Dave. Although I don't believe Gough is in retirement like many people think. When he says "I'm luck to be alive," I think he's actually referring to not being executed (by smough) for a treason of some sort. He is locked away in the tower above a ticking timebomb (Oolacile's Abyss) and all of his carvings say he's imprisoned.
The Sif boss fight... So much tragedy in only one place Artorias was certanly the strongest of the knights, and the wolf represents that '' lone wolf '' status were he would be sent on missions alone that only him, unmatched with a greatsword and with an unbendable will of steel, would be able to accomplish.
@@mightyshady1016 you're a captain doesn't mean you're stronger than other members. Maybe in the great war, Ornstein killed more dragon than anyone in Four Knights
DAMN. The attention to the tiniest details in Dark Souls is just mind boggling. From Soft, you guys rock. Very very few developers focus so much attention on the smallest of details to make the game feel more immerse and complete. (Bethesda's Elder Scrolls series is another good example)
Inkredeble mmo you would actually be surprised on how many secrets the elder scrolls hold,so dont just mention 1 elder scroll game and think you are done if you want proof go watch some of MrRhexx's lore videos and see how many things you can find out
That must be heart breaking killing dragons, slaying beasts worthy of the title "everlasting" and then being killed by a midget with bad dress sense, just because you're getting old, damn talk about insult to injury....
Ah... Good ol' "YOU DEFEATED!". I love your videos man. Recently discovered your channel. I love all lore videos from various youtubers. I found myself good night stories for weeks! :D
Haha - I looked at your schedule and was like: NO! I MUST BEAT HIM OUT! HIS VIDEOS ARE TOO GOOD! I kinda looked on Artorias as a part of a whole as opposed to focusing on him, so they'll definitely be different. :) Great point about Gough being imprisoned. Weird he'd be imprisoned with his Great Bow, though.
Anyone else think the four knights are similar to the four archangels from Supernatural (not sure if they are the same in the actual Bible)? With Ornstein being Michael since he is the most loyal and carries on serving Gwyn even after he leaves. Artorias as Lucifer since he is corrupted by darkness. And Gough and Ciaran being interchangeable with Gabriel and Raphael (although I lean towards Gough being Gabriel because he retires before Ciaran, and Gabriel hid from his brothers).
I feel so sad for the destiny of the 4 knights of Gwyn. After the days during the war against the dragons, they had no use anymore and was droped like old toys. Except for Artorias who was sent on a suicide mission too stop the abyss. Either they die by the choosen undeads hand or by something else... I always bow before them in game, just to give them the respect they deserve
Discussing Gough's band of archers, one of the people you kill in Darkroot Garden is an archer wearing a small hat, the description says it was worn by all of Gough's archers, sort of like a Robin Hood style hat which is cool
I always figured Ornstein was just the -Captain of the Guard- rather than the -Captain of the Four Knights- since it seems that the other knights took orders from Gwyn himself rather than Ornstein, particularly in the case of Ciaran who appears to largely be acting on her own goals rather than working under either Ornstein or Gwyn.
Ciaran was part of a group of assassins called the Lord's blade ( which is where she gets her title) and directly work under Gwyn even being known as Gwyn's shadow.
"A helm crafted especially for the honorable Hawkeye Gough, only the eye holes were packed with tree resin by those who dismissed Gough as a brutish giant." - There really is nothing to go off of, other than this (and that you can see the resin in there). You could be right! I tend to believe that he has taken off his helmet... at some point in his life after this event, but who knows, really.
remembers me of my old squad back in the early days of warframe a clan of 4 but the game changed each one leaving the game now.... I remain still playing missing my old friends
Hey DaveControlLive! What do you think of Ornstein showing up in DS2 as the Old Dragonslayer. I think that ultimately proves that Ornstein and Smough were illusions created by Gwyndolin. Of course, you do receive Ornstein's soul if you slay Smough first, but I think that just has to be a game mechanic of rewarding a player after facing one of the most difficult boss fights...ever.
When Gough was shown in the video as a Giant, I instantly thought of the giant atop the tower in the Undead Settlement in Dark Souls 3. Just a thought, but could the giant sniper be a friend of Gough as well, considering he has the Hawk Ring?
7:15 Ahh so THAT is what falling into the Abyss looks like. I always got confused because I pictured the spreading Abyss to be like walking into your house and finding a dark corner in an otherwise illuminated room, and Artorias and Wolnir slipping on banana peels or something and falling in. My mistake is probably because reaching it in New Londo consists of you waltzing down the stairs, and the corner of the room is dark, and you walk in and enter the black expanse. But that raises the new question: how the Abyss spreads without actually "spreading" over the land, how high levels of humanity just sneak out of the bushes at Artorias, and what causes that dark corner to appear in the first place?
I feel like it's supposed to represent the emotions you'll go through as a player fighting Kalameet. At least, those were the emotions I went through my first time fighting Kalameet. (Especially since it was New Game+ with a mid-build and I was trying to cut off his tail).
I don't think the Chosen Undead really kill anyone, even Artorias...it is because of the bonfires. Who place bonfires in ancient Oolacile? Not only bonfires used to warp between bonfires but through ages also? I think everything the Chosen Undead are facing are just memories that materialized, illusions created by someone...
Yes - I predicted the time travel thing in my DaS2 lore speculation video. :) Okay - I see who you're talking about now. (The character that pops out of the Mirror shield). I played the E3 build of the game... at E3 (which this is based off of). (And have a video about playing it). The mirror knight shoots out basic enemies when you fight him - OR - it shoots out PvP players to come fight you during the boss battle. The normal enemies it spews out doesn't look like that.
awesome lore, Dave! always loved your videos especially this one. Poor guys of Gwyn, had to kill them to beat the game :( But I think they are all very amazing in their own own ways, but Ornstein takes the cake from me XD
Actually, I really like this thought. I'd thought of "believed" as just being something where people forgot overtime, but that's a really interesting idea!
I wonder what artorios, Ciaran, and gough thought of ornstein because the game never really describes what they thought of him, did they like him like a friend or did they not get along well
(sorry for my english) I think that Ornstein was very loyal to Gwyn, and he doesn't care about the other knights. This makes him the most trusted knight of the four and because of this Gwyn make Orny to be leader of the others.
I see Orn as the ambitious leader, Art as his rival/greatest supporter, Cia as Art's love, possibly fought over by both Orn and Art, which could've caused a rift to open up that, if you want to be really depressing, wasn't resolved before Art was corrupted, and Gough is just... Well... Gough.
I can imagine Orenstein feeling bitter about the rest of the knights, probably after Artorias left he felt the need to be even better than the others to compensate for their lost ally. And when he gets called in to protect and he just see's everyone doing nothing (Gough), feeling sorry (Cia) he just says: "You are all unfit of being called the knights of Gwyn" then just secludes himself, probably letting Smough execute people so he wouldn't bother him. The rest of the knights would see him as a sad figure, trying to fill a void in his heart. That's what I thing atleast.
I think the lion's tail end is just that hairy part of the end of a lion's tail? Although - Ornstein and Smough's absorption abilities are quite interesting. The question is - is it a gameplay mechanic or is there some true lore behind it? I wonder if it's a matter of they absorb souls differently than an Undead would? Each contain a "special Soul" - so perhaps that's why.
You mean the two you fight in the main hall, after exiting the area where you fought Ornstein and Smough? I had always assumed they were Blades of the Darkmoon. After joining them and talking to the firekeeper of Anor Londo, she says something along the lines of "So, thou hast joined our ranks?" I took that to mean that there were other Blades in Anor Londo, and that those were them. I guess there's no reason why an illusion couldn't make them appear to be Orn and Smough though.
The four knights are basically an adventuring party. The poise-heavy Artorias serves as a tank, while Ornstein works as the damage dealer with his spear. The crit-striking Ciaran takes advantage of their enemies' weak points to do even more damage. And finally, Gough provides supporting fire.
Yeah, it's just the description that The Bed of Chaos was "the mother of ALL demons"... implying that it would include the Titanite Demons (who are the only non-chaos seeming demons in the game).
I personally like to think that Artorias was leader of the four knights, rather than Ornstein. If we are abiding by the symbols of the animals, then it may be imperative to note that lions, particularly male lions, are actually very lazy and less noble than they are built to be. Yes, they are strong and ferocious when on the hunt, but they spend the majority of the day sleeping. In fact, the females of the pride do the majority of the hunting while the males lie around waiting for them to bring their prey home. Wolves in comparison are much more vigilant and unified in nature. Likewise, when we venture back to the past, we see the aftermath of Artorias and the other two knight's efforts to stop the darkness, but Ornstein is curiously absent... Another thing to note, is the fact that an allegedly distinguished knight of Lord Gwyn has an association with a low-life executioner, whose soul is only worth one soul to Frampt. Why would the leader of Gwyn's great knights end up being stuck with the likes of him, and guarding no less than the hollow illusion of Gwynevere? As this video states, It makes perfect sense to me that if the leader of the knights were to fall as Artorias has, that an envious Ornstein would gladly jump in and build himself as the leader he felt he deserved to be. If he is indeed unaware that Gwynevere is merely an illusion, then Gwyndolin would gladly take advantage of his egotism and assign the position of Royal guard to him. I'm not dead-set on this conviction, but much of the lore of this series is obscurely hidden, and it's up to the player to fill in the blanks where UA-cam theorists can only uncover so much. This theory of mine is just my way of filling that particular blank in my imagination :)
Well if it was made to be an illusion since ornstein appears in ds2 with a much older looking set of amour I'm to assume orstein was fake but dishonorable smough wasn't a fake. I believe orstein was the leader because once the dragons were shot down it was up to him to open a wound for the others to strike at which would give him a very important role. Also I think the animal of a wolf was to symbolize how the abyss walker fought the dark alone without help making him a lone wolf. While ornsteins fake body remanded guarding an illusion to give a since of power seeing both the powerful and feared executioner and the leader of the great four knights of gwyn.
Enigmatic Varan Idk where it said that Gough helped out with the abyss because I'm pretty sure it was just artorias. Also, your explanation about lions and wolfs was cool and all but that really doesn't explain anything and sounds like head canon to me. Artorias was a lone wolf, prabably working by himself and would not be a fit captain. Ornstein while maybe weaker strengthwise would be overall stronger in his leadership capabilities.
You also paint Ornstein as kind of and asshole which doesn't really make sense to me but it is your opinions after all and can like or dislike anyone you please but I'd like to remind you that artorias while being a total badass with a sexy design, he's kind of a failure, going into the abyss unprepared and then dying.
Another theory: Ornstein is the supposed captain of the Four Knights, because he was the only one left by the time you slay him. Perhaps Artorias was the captain, but when the other three died Ornstein just claimed the title (noone in Anor Londo could tell otherwise). Smough maybe knew about it which is why he is so eager to smash Ornstein even though he's twitching.
Hey Dave, look back at the Leo ring. If you look close to the image, it seems as though the lion has an odd tail, one that seems to be representing a snake. I'm just saying this because I want to know how Ornstein can fuse with Smough and vise versa. Maybe Ornstein is more than just a (demi)god. Maybe he had another ability in tow that we may have missed.
That might be Artorias in the into of the game holding the sword in his left hand. (His armor looks similar.) This might conform that he helped with the dragon hunts. But if that's true there is also the fact that he was left handed before but then lost the use at one point. Maybe to the dragons, maybe to the abyss. What do you think?
By that same logic, one could easily say that all of the NPC's are illusions. Nearly every character with any form of dialogue does not leave a corpse when it dies. There's a very specific difference between a one-of-a-kind item, and something that was mass-produced for the guards of Anor Londo. The Rings are specifically unique, serving as the mark of Gwyn's Four. The Lordvessel is specific as well, but mainly because it's a tool of the Chosen. It has to be controlled, the Rings, are not.
Does anyone else think that ornstien may have been more than a guardian of gwynever? Because when the chosen undead enters the throne room he is with gwynever instead of with smough who is a friend as you can see when you kill smough first
TIME TO DROP SOME MORE LORE: in dark souls 3, 1 item in specific says smough was the only 1 to stay guard at the cathedral in anor londo meaning that ornstein was only a small peice of his soul or yet another illusion by gwyndolin and in dark souls 3 you also see ornsteins spear and armour by the bell to join the dragon covenent meaning he wanted to find the nameless king and join the dragon covenant and it is also thought that the storm drake the nameless king is riding on is ornstein himself it would make sense though because its a storm drake and ornstein used a lightning themed spear but even if that is him he still dies anyways Also you don't pick his armour up by a corpse
He probably realizes that, with the Lordvessel in hand, it will be the quickest way for the Chosen Undead to contact him if they haven't been taken in by Frampt yet. That's probably the only reason he tolerates its presence in the Abyss. Why he doesn't get rid of it if you have spoken to Frampt, I have no idea. I don't know, why do these bonfires appear out on nowhere when they didn't exist in the area when the boss was alive?
I'm sure they support the flames, just as they support Lord Gwyn. They've been fighting on Gwyn's side who is trying to postpone the Age of Fire, so I think they look at the flames as a positive thing.
But if you kill Ciaran in the past, wouldn't that mean that the body with her ring could also be from a grave robber or another warrior? We know that many warriors have trespass Artorias grave and they have been slain by Sif. Hence the swords around the grave.
It's far more likely that Gough was not blind and that he thought he had gone blind when the eye holes of his helmet were stuffed with resin. Whilst his skills without sight are formidable I imagine that they were far better when he could see. Don't forget that he is old and that it wouldn't be too much of a shock to him if he went blind in his sleep.
He was probably imprisoned by the humans of Oolacile who, after being convinced by one of the serpents, turned on Gwyn and his following. They might have given him wood to do something to pass the time.
Has anyone else made a link to the emotions Gough lists and the four knights? To me, Ornstein represents pride quite clearly, but the other three are less clear-cut. I feel that Artorias may be the most rageful of the four, which could be what allowed him to be tainted in the first place, and Ciaran could be exhilaration, or hatred. It's debatable which, because she does seem to hold ill feelings towards humans. Which leaves Gough to represent either of the last two. Both can be applied to him
I think you should do an update for the lore. I believed that the only person who guarded Anor Londo was Smough (refer to his armor in ds3). Ornstein that fought along side Smough might have been just an illusion that is created by Gwydolin (Gwyndolin could be powerful as well since even after his death, everything function normally through out Anor Londo (only talk about Ds1)). Also I believe that Ornstein was seeking out Gwyn first born child but what ever happen to him I don't know as I only encounter his armor set and his spear.
I know I'm going to sound like such a noob but I always wondered why the knights were way taller than me, I understand the giant but I don't understand ornstein, artorias, and smough
it would seem like ornstein was there but to continue the story is in dk3 where at nameless king you can find he armor there like it was left there by someone not on a body or in a chest but just left there. and the storm drag when you kill him nameless does the samething as ornstein and smough, and a very well hidden fact that him and nameless are very close and was indeed best friends, you can get all of this in the things from them smough says that he was the only one that stay to watch the sunlight, and ornstein says that he left to find the nameless to be with him, you get that from the old dragonslayer armor in dk3 said that the owner of the armor had left a longtime ago so its proven that ornstein is in fact is a fake you are actually meant to kill smough and not ornstein.
Maybe Ornstein was despited by Ciaran, Gough and Artorias and maybe Ornstein was asked to come with the knights to Oolacile but he was afraid of it and therefore stayed home, but as he was defending the throne he felt lonely and asked smough to help him and maybe he was afraid of dying by the chosen undead
Nah, you fight a Berenike Knight (the super big guy with the Tower shield) and Ricard the Archer. (I'm assuming one of these two guys is who you're thinking of - probably Ricard).
the key is the rings. While yes, they could easily be moved after the wearer died, it's unlikely. From a storytelling standpoint, the rings are meant to brand the character as being one of the four knights. They all appear near the character who was supposed to own them, and Ornstein's is the only one we directly recieve from the character.
Just my speculation but I think Ornstein and smough are just part of the illusion created by gwyndolin. After killing gwynevere we will see 1 knight of berenike and 1 baldur knight which has similar moveset to ornstein and smough. It would be strange that a baldur knight would make it in anor londo, could it be Knight king rendall? I have no idea of the Knight in Heavy armor though.
There's something else that I feel is worth mentioning. In the intro video, the Silver Knight seen drawing his silver knight straight sword to challenge the dragon is very clearly left handed. The only character in all of Dark Souls that is universally accepted as left handed is Knight Artorias. This would also mean that at least Artorias and probably also Ornstein were silver knights before they distinguished themselves, and I also find it likely that Ciaran was the captain of the Lord's Blades, Ornstein commanded the spear Silver Knights, Gough commanded the Dragonslayer Greatbow artillery, and Artorias lead the straight sword Silver Knights before he was lost to the Abyss and Gough retired, putting all Silver Knights under the command of Dragonslayer Ornstein. Just an interesting thought.
you know i agree with that thanks for pointing it out
***** Yeah, that's the problem with Dark Souls lore, everything is speculation. Makes for some jolly good fun putting it all together, though. But as a counterpoint, it makes sense that the Old Dragonslayer literally IS Dragonslayer Ornstein, brought back by some kind of dark power. He has a very similar attack pattern to Ornstein, and uses the same weapon and armor, but uses darkness instead of lightning. This could mean that his soul fell into the possession of another, who used a hex to bring him back. This would explain his altered appearance and dark magic. Another interesting theory I stumbled on is that the Ornstein at Anor Londo is an illusion generated by Gwyndolin. The Giant Lords fled Anor Londo, and Gwynevere could have come to Drangleic, in which case Ornstein would have come with her as her protector (the giants at the the Tower of Flame also look suspiciously like worn out Sentinels). Given that Artorias was corrupted by the Abyss and also gained an alternate appearance and power over dark magic, Ornstein could have succumb to the Abyss as well, making the Old Dragonslayer. After Ornstein absorbs Smough, he gets much larger with his massive increase in power, so the fact that the Old Dragonslayer is bigger than base Ornstein could mean that absorbing Abyss power also made him bigger and stronger. Regardless, while it's possible that Ornstein and the Old Dragonslayer could have both been captains of the spear knights, it's also extremely likely that they're the same person.
I'm not actually convinced that Artorias was really left handed, he isn't on the box art for prepare to die and the chosen undead and do this special moves without the sword being left handed in DS1. That being said, that is a really cool theory on some added detail in the opening cutscene, I'm just not sure since the left handed thing left more like a retconned detail in DS2 DLC no less
I disagree with you, it's pretty agreed that Artorias was left handed from the minute players got to fight him and begin to put details together. You use his sword right-handed in DS1 because the game wouldn't let you do otherwise. And while Artorias may or may not be the one on the original cover, no other character in DS was left-handed, and the armor the person is wearing doesn't match any in-game set, which is why it's thought that the cover represents Artorias entering the Abyss in New Londo for the first time, before he got his Abysswalker title (and likely new armor). I just feel like if they went out of their way to make a left-handed silver-knight in the intro, it's probably significant lore-wise.
Enzar17 I just don't follow. Sure Artorias had to be right handed because the game made him but that just means he is right handed. I can see no in game evidence than he is anything but. if you can show me these forums and discussion I would love to scroll through them.
But here is where my big issue is anyway. The majestic greatsword in DS2 has a special moveset if you use it left handed as keeping with the mythos of DS. All cool, i could even go with Artorias being left handed. If that is the case then how does Artorias have access to the left handed moveset while using the sword right handed? The obvious answer, to me at least, is in DS1 they made his moveset then new director for DS2 they ignored logic to add a cool lore tidbit and it made a plot hole
Oh god..this video hit me right in the damn feels....-sobs- poor four knights......
Ornstein, pride and strength of a Lion, defending the source of his pride until his last breath, yet he goes down with no regrets in his heart, honour being maintained until the last moment.
Gough, eyes of a hawk, his gaze pieces all, choosing to spend his final days creating many things, hope (when he removes Kalameet's flying advantage) works of art, learned from a dear old friend.
Artorias, agile and strong as the wolf, always choosing to fight against whatever dangers the world through at him, even after his corruption as he still hunts down Abyss tainted humans of Oolacile .
Lastly Ciaran, striking with the speed and accuracy of Hornet's, always with love in her heart for the one person she placed above all others but never revealing her emotions, until fate ultimately plunges a dagger into her chances, executing them with out mercy.
Excuse me while I go cry manly tears of over whelming emotions.
A S you forgot to mention the fact that Gough loses his vision.
Also Ornstein is much sadder than that. He is stuck defending an illusion of the princess along with an executioner so disgusting, he is unfit to be a knight. His captain who he has taken so much inspiration from has abandoned him and he is doomed to die at the hand of a lowly undead.
Joe King isnt the ornstein at anor londo just another illusion made by gwyndolin?
Theres a theory that says the real ornstein actually left anor londo and followed the nameless king in dsk 3
Furvius Garfield I have a few problems with that theory, one being that when you touch ornstein, he doesn’t disappear like Gwynevere. Also, when you go to where the nameless king resides and where Ornstein armor lays, you get there by meditating. Usually when you go anywhere far away, you’re taken by something, however you’re given no explanation as to how you got there, you drift off, hear a screeching noise after the screen fades to black, and then you’re all of a sudden just there. That couples with the strange physics there like ringing the bell making a rainstorm with solid clouds and whatnot makes it seem sorta like a dream, and ringing the bell turns it into a nightmare. Maybe it connects back to Oscars words in dark souls 1 “when thou ringth the bell of awakening, the fate of the undead thou shalt know”.
great now i feel bad for killing the artorias and ornstein
you were supposed to feel bad
If you bought the game, you are supposed to feel bad. Remember that Fair Lady thinks you'r Quelaag.
Tope92
Yep, that's more a dramatic end, getting killed thinking your sister killed you without a reason
44theshadow i haven't fought artorias yet but i was happy the boss fight ended, but i killed ornstein last so i could cosplay and i don't want ornstein to be brutalized by smough when ornstein dies
iDisturbedDemon I wonder what they thought when they started to make Dark souls. "Hey guys, Let's make a game that is really hard and let's make it really depressive!"
It would be cool if From Soft made a game where we could play as the four knights and slay dragons
Mr_Beezlebub Dragon Souls confirmed
It wouldn't really be their style of game
Yes please
it would be more awesome if they make the game in the dragon war and let us fight the 4 Knight, Gwyn and the Nameless King in their prime
I'd love to see Anor Londor at its peak, and the surround world
I think that Ornstein and Gough earned their honors in the Dragon War, after Gough and his archers ground the dragons Orstein and his spear-men then finish the dragons with their lightning spears. As for Artorias and Ciaran, they most likely earned their honors in the Occult Rebellion, with Artorias leading the loyalist vanguard and Ciaran leading the loyalist spooks that assassinated the mortal leaders of the rebels.
Sawyer Patton isn’t the nameless king a rebel though?
Seems to me like Gough made the Hello, Thank You, Help Me, Very Good, and the I'm Sorry Carvings in DS3. Fine work for a blind giant.
If he made the carvings I wish I could teleport my character to dark souls 1 and throw the Very Good! carving at him.
+Fosilhun thaaaankyou.carving
+Zechling should have thought about the one
"Halp meh"
yes and they are in dark souls too you buy them from him if i remember. gues you only played the 3 and know nothing about the1
Most of the four knights have silver knights that brandish their weapons: spear, sword, and greatbow. Ciaran, however doesn't have a silver knight counterpart. Maybe she does have a group of assassins, but they were not repurposed as knights after she passed on. What if the Lord's Blades happened to change attire after Ciaran left and took up the role of the painted guardians. The painted guardians seem to mirror Ciaran's use of 2 short swords and they move like assassins unlike any other enemy in Anor Londo. There is no connection to between the painted guardians and the Lord's Blades, but I found it odd that they Ciaran wouldn't have some followers if all the other knights still had them.
+GoldenPhoenix497
Actually that's a good point...while the other knights all retain essentially the exact same arms and training they had, just re-purposed, and they likely would have remembered/been taught their original functions since they are similar...
It is said that the painting guardians have long forgotten why they guard the painting. If the Lord's Blades participated in the original quelling of the Occult rebellion, and the remnants of it being subsequently sealed in the painting, then it's quite feasible that, having no further purpose as assassins, they were tasked with guarding the painting. That is a function quite different from sneaking about in the night, assassinating threats, as you now have to be visible deterrents against a stationary location being trespassed on.
It seems reasonable that over time the descendants would have forgotten the reason for their strange martial arts movements, which no longer serve much function in terrifying people with flashing colored sheen's from the blades, but are still effective at striking enemies down swiftly. Likewise, they probably had new weapons more suited to a Guardian role instead of assassins role created, given that you never find a similar weapon to the Tracers.
+Zetro Hermit Also note the ivory ponytail shared by both Painting Guardians and Ciaran. I think it's fairly safe to say that the Painting Guardians were an offshoot of the Lord's Blades.
This has be my favorite lore in all of the dark souls franchise(is that right, I dont know XD). But, good job explaining the breif lore on the four knights. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much! I'm really glad to hear you enjoyed it so much. :)
DaveControlLive You are the only person(that ive seen) that responds to there subscribers and viewers. Keep up the good work.
Im not sure if the four Knights really have or need a Leader. It seems to be more like Gwyn's Knights are all Leaders of the different Groups. Ornstein is the Leader of the Royal Guard, Artorias is the Leader of the Silver Knights who fought the darkness but lost at the very end, even though they managed to slow its advance, Gough is obviously the Leader of the Archers and Ciaran is Gwyn's Assassin. Like a Warcouncil or something. x..x
Actually, ciaran is the leader of the undead legion of farron(the abyss watchers).
Lol wat
never heard Artorias talking, do i need a ring?
+Brian Andrew It's from cut content that was found.
Yeah, they were going to add it in and obviously it’s completely finished but they didn’t for some (absolutely no) reason
Am I the only one who wants to see the battle with dragons vs those four knights, like a opening cinematic which would showcase it clearly. That would be so awesome.
Yesssss I hope it's like a dlc for dark souls 3 or something.
FROM SOFTWARE needs to make a show or movie trilogy about finding the lord souls, fighting with the dragons, and linking the fire for the first time.
Right now, if you would sirs.
would be awsome
There is actually a video, ornstein vs dragon in the pruld channel, "the one spear knight"
I like your videos.
they are informative and on point. not too long, not too short.
great
+Lobster with Mustard and Rice I know, right? I like his vids UCH better than that Silver guy. He just rambles on and on and doesn't even edit out his many bloopers.
The fact that Gough can expertly carve wood and shoot a fast moving dragon out of the sky despite being blind is pretty crazy.
Ornstein in Archdragon's peak be like "im not going to explain"
Cuz the Ornstein in Anor Londo is an illusion
I would love a spinoff with the Four Knights. So much gold in that lore.
I would say that during the war against the dragons only Ornstein and Gough became knights and because nobody likes giants Ornstein was the leader. I think that Artorias and Cirian became knights during the Occult Rebellion, because their items never mention dragon slaying and also a greatsword and daggers seem a bit ineffective against dragons with stone scales, but they are good weapons against human size enemies. Also, the Occult Rebellion wasn't just yesterday so there was enough time to forge the band of friendship between them.
Also I think that Ornsteins "superpower" wasn't just his great skill with lightning. His ability to increase his size would be pretty useful against large enemies. Think about fighting Kalameet or Ancient Dragon, but you would be as huge as Super Ornstein. It would be a lot easier to kill them right?
Wow that will actually explain super ornstein very well. No wonder he became the great dragonslayer.
Agreed, especially considering that Artorias's sword does split magic damage, something dragons are immune to.
I find it likely that Ornstein, after everyone left Anor Londo and he alone was there to protect the illusion of Gwynewere and the Lord Vessel, he bestowed a shard of his soul to Smough and that he's actually smaller when Smough is alive rather than his normal size, which can be seen with super Ornstein.
OkamiXCeleste I don't know where but there is an item description saying Artorias does extra damage against Darkwraiths. He clearly was there keeping the Darkwraiths at bay before New Londo was flooded. Whether New Londo and Oolacile were happening at the same time is up for debate
Wilf Nelson Divine damage, thats how he was able to keep the darkwraiths at bay and manage to face Manus
Are we on the same schedule or something? I'm working on my "Abysswalker" video right now which will touch base on the four knights.
Anyway, another interesting video Dave. Although I don't believe Gough is in retirement like many people think. When he says "I'm luck to be alive," I think he's actually referring to not being executed (by smough) for a treason of some sort. He is locked away in the tower above a ticking timebomb (Oolacile's Abyss) and all of his carvings say he's imprisoned.
Wait are you........
The Sif boss fight... So much tragedy in only one place
Artorias was certanly the strongest of the knights, and the wolf represents that '' lone wolf '' status were he would be sent on missions alone that only him, unmatched with a greatsword and with an unbendable will of steel, would be able to accomplish.
Orbstein could be the strongest too. Hes the captain after all. Sadly we dont know who is stronger
@@mightyshady1016 you're a captain doesn't mean you're stronger than other members. Maybe in the great war, Ornstein killed more dragon than anyone in Four Knights
DAMN. The attention to the tiniest details in Dark Souls is just mind boggling. From Soft, you guys rock. Very very few developers focus so much attention on the smallest of details to make the game feel more immerse and complete. (Bethesda's Elder Scrolls series is another good example)
You dont need anny lore for skyrim because every npc tells you every bit of whatever it is.
Inkredeble mmo you would actually be surprised on how many secrets the elder scrolls hold,so dont just mention 1 elder scroll game and think you are done
if you want proof go watch some of MrRhexx's lore videos and see how many things you can find out
Inkredeble mmo
Some people like it that way, what's wrong with it
Artorias was a kind soul, you can tell.
That must be heart breaking killing dragons, slaying beasts worthy of the title "everlasting" and then being killed by a midget with bad dress sense, just because you're getting old, damn talk about insult to injury....
Ah... Good ol' "YOU DEFEATED!". I love your videos man. Recently discovered your channel. I love all lore videos from various youtubers. I found myself good night stories for weeks! :D
Perhaps the graverobber was killed by his mourning widow.
Haha - I looked at your schedule and was like: NO! I MUST BEAT HIM OUT! HIS VIDEOS ARE TOO GOOD! I kinda looked on Artorias as a part of a whole as opposed to focusing on him, so they'll definitely be different. :)
Great point about Gough being imprisoned. Weird he'd be imprisoned with his Great Bow, though.
Anyone else think the four knights are similar to the four archangels from Supernatural (not sure if they are the same in the actual Bible)? With Ornstein being Michael since he is the most loyal and carries on serving Gwyn even after he leaves. Artorias as Lucifer since he is corrupted by darkness. And Gough and Ciaran being interchangeable with Gabriel and Raphael (although I lean towards Gough being Gabriel because he retires before Ciaran, and Gabriel hid from his brothers).
Lol smough dies and ornstein honors him, ornstein gets wounded and smough smashes him to bits laughing
+Jon Shaffer LMAO MY SIDES HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I feel so sad for the destiny of the 4 knights of Gwyn. After the days during the war against the dragons, they had no use anymore and was droped like old toys. Except for Artorias who was sent on a suicide mission too stop the abyss. Either they die by the choosen undeads hand or by something else... I always bow before them in game, just to give them the respect they deserve
Most of the major characters in Dark Souls are tragic in some way or another.
atleast tht giants doing alright unless u killed him
actually artorias went to the abyss with no orders i believe. i think it was because they didnt hear from gough and Ciaranin a while.
The only evil thing in dark souls is ourselves ! ... x(
So so true
Yeah... we're the assholes that kills every nice being in this sad, sad world
Yeah man , i hadnt done everything at the point i saw this video so yeah i agree ... trusty patches as well ... there were a lot of aholes in the game
METROIDER123 False.
I Loce Kyougoku Logan never went hollow, he just went bat shit crazy
Now I think I know where the voiced wood carvings are from.
Hawkeye is the best, every time I see that cut scene of him shooting down kalameet I go crazy
This was an amazing video, i really got wrapped into the lore
It's definitely possible. I really bounced back and forth on it while I was creating the video.
Discussing Gough's band of archers, one of the people you kill in Darkroot Garden is an archer wearing a small hat, the description says it was worn by all of Gough's archers, sort of like a Robin Hood style hat which is cool
I always figured Ornstein was just the -Captain of the Guard- rather than the -Captain of the Four Knights- since it seems that the other knights took orders from Gwyn himself rather than Ornstein, particularly in the case of Ciaran who appears to largely be acting on her own goals rather than working under either Ornstein or Gwyn.
Ciaran was part of a group of assassins called the Lord's blade ( which is where she gets her title) and directly work under Gwyn even being known as Gwyn's shadow.
"A helm crafted especially for the honorable Hawkeye Gough,
only the eye holes were packed with tree resin
by those who dismissed Gough as a brutish giant."
- There really is nothing to go off of, other than this (and that you can see the resin in there). You could be right! I tend to believe that he has taken off his helmet... at some point in his life after this event, but who knows, really.
remembers me of my old squad back in the early days of warframe a clan of 4 but the game changed each one leaving the game now.... I remain still playing missing my old friends
Yup. Subscribed. This was awesome.
Hey DaveControlLive! What do you think of Ornstein showing up in DS2 as the Old Dragonslayer. I think that ultimately proves that Ornstein and Smough were illusions created by Gwyndolin. Of course, you do receive Ornstein's soul if you slay Smough first, but I think that just has to be a game mechanic of rewarding a player after facing one of the most difficult boss fights...ever.
Running man wants a prequel based on these four knights and the events that happened in the war against the dragons.
When Gough was shown in the video as a Giant, I instantly thought of the giant atop the tower in the Undead Settlement in Dark Souls 3. Just a thought, but could the giant sniper be a friend of Gough as well, considering he has the Hawk Ring?
Seth Brooking maybe he was one of his dragon slaying Knights
awesome you have changed my mind of the 4 knights the for this video and good luck in future videos
7:15 Ahh so THAT is what falling into the Abyss looks like. I always got confused because I pictured the spreading Abyss to be like walking into your house and finding a dark corner in an otherwise illuminated room, and Artorias and Wolnir slipping on banana peels or something and falling in. My mistake is probably because reaching it in New Londo consists of you waltzing down the stairs, and the corner of the room is dark, and you walk in and enter the black expanse.
But that raises the new question: how the Abyss spreads without actually "spreading" over the land, how high levels of humanity just sneak out of the bushes at Artorias, and what causes that dark corner to appear in the first place?
I feel like it's supposed to represent the emotions you'll go through as a player fighting Kalameet.
At least, those were the emotions I went through my first time fighting Kalameet. (Especially since it was New Game+ with a mid-build and I was trying to cut off his tail).
Why does everybody pronounce Ornstein as Ornsteen? You don't call Einstein, Einsteen...do you?
People don't do German well. I feel you bro.
Everytime someone says "Ornsteen" I just want to scratch a fucking board. This is just how much irritating it is.
speaking of this , does it pronounce ornstien or ornshtein ? just wondering
Iraqi ProGamers Ornshtein. Just like you would pronounce Einstein.
***** aha thanks for the explanation
would really love to see the stories of these knights expanded upon in another title or even a movie.
It kind of makes me sad that all 4 knights are gone
I don't think the Chosen Undead really kill anyone, even Artorias...it is because of the bonfires. Who place bonfires in ancient Oolacile? Not only bonfires used to warp between bonfires but through ages also? I think everything the Chosen Undead are facing are just memories that materialized, illusions created by someone...
All of you lore Episodes are epic
Yes - I predicted the time travel thing in my DaS2 lore speculation video. :)
Okay - I see who you're talking about now. (The character that pops out of the Mirror shield).
I played the E3 build of the game... at E3 (which this is based off of). (And have a video about playing it). The mirror knight shoots out basic enemies when you fight him - OR - it shoots out PvP players to come fight you during the boss battle. The normal enemies it spews out doesn't look like that.
I wanna see a movie/comic book based on the Occult rebellion.
awesome lore, Dave! always loved your videos especially this one. Poor guys of Gwyn, had to kill them to beat the game :( But I think they are all very amazing in their own own ways, but Ornstein takes the cake from me XD
lol and then it turns out Ornstein has the curse too because TA-DA he appears in dark souls 2
THAT'S WHERE THE FUCKING RING WAS?! BEHIND THE BLACKSMITH THE WHOLE FUCKING TIME?! Christ, I'm an idiot. Time to go retrieve it.
Xanatos712 ironically i found it when i went to buy dragonslayer arrows
Jerec 12 Is...that really irony?
+Xanatos712 Don't feel too bad. I never explored the the area around the bonfire before you meet Gwynevere, so I never found Lautrec's armour.
Actually, I really like this thought. I'd thought of "believed" as just being something where people forgot overtime, but that's a really interesting idea!
I wonder what artorios, Ciaran, and gough thought of ornstein because the game never really describes what they thought of him, did they like him like a friend or did they not get along well
Can someone please reply to this comment I wanna know what you guys think
(sorry for my english) I think that Ornstein was very loyal to Gwyn, and he doesn't care about the other knights. This makes him the most trusted knight of the four and because of this Gwyn make Orny to be leader of the others.
I see Orn as the ambitious leader, Art as his rival/greatest supporter, Cia as Art's love, possibly fought over by both Orn and Art, which could've caused a rift to open up that, if you want to be really depressing, wasn't resolved before Art was corrupted, and Gough is just... Well... Gough.
I can imagine Orenstein feeling bitter about the rest of the knights, probably after Artorias left he felt the need to be even better than the others to compensate for their lost ally. And when he gets called in to protect and he just see's everyone doing nothing (Gough), feeling sorry (Cia) he just says: "You are all unfit of being called the knights of Gwyn" then just secludes himself, probably letting Smough execute people so he wouldn't bother him. The rest of the knights would see him as a sad figure, trying to fill a void in his heart. That's what I thing atleast.
I think the lion's tail end is just that hairy part of the end of a lion's tail?
Although - Ornstein and Smough's absorption abilities are quite interesting. The question is - is it a gameplay mechanic or is there some true lore behind it? I wonder if it's a matter of they absorb souls differently than an Undead would? Each contain a "special Soul" - so perhaps that's why.
Effigy shield is tucked away in Tomb of the Giants, in the area where the Black knight is.
You mean the two you fight in the main hall, after exiting the area where you fought Ornstein and Smough? I had always assumed they were Blades of the Darkmoon. After joining them and talking to the firekeeper of Anor Londo, she says something along the lines of "So, thou hast joined our ranks?"
I took that to mean that there were other Blades in Anor Londo, and that those were them. I guess there's no reason why an illusion couldn't make them appear to be Orn and Smough though.
Hawkeye is a cool bean
Dark souls;
Where you stop a war by killing all participants.
Great video!
The four knights are basically an adventuring party.
The poise-heavy Artorias serves as a tank, while Ornstein works as the damage dealer with his spear. The crit-striking Ciaran takes advantage of their enemies' weak points to do even more damage. And finally, Gough provides supporting fire.
Wait is that artoriases voice at 7:11 ? Wheres the audio clip from
It was cut content found on the data of the game disc, but not in the game itself.
Yeah, it's just the description that The Bed of Chaos was "the mother of ALL demons"... implying that it would include the Titanite Demons (who are the only non-chaos seeming demons in the game).
Is that Gough's voice in the carved woods that says Very good, Hello, i'm sorry and things like this ? If so, how did they managed to reach DS 2 ?
Guillaume Bloch I suppose while he may have died off - his stones that contain his voice still survived over time? (Like the rings and such we find).
I think this is a really cool thought, and very plausible.
I personally like to think that Artorias was leader of the four knights, rather than Ornstein. If we are abiding by the symbols of the animals, then it may be imperative to note that lions, particularly male lions, are actually very lazy and less noble than they are built to be. Yes, they are strong and ferocious when on the hunt, but they spend the majority of the day sleeping. In fact, the females of the pride do the majority of the hunting while the males lie around waiting for them to bring their prey home. Wolves in comparison are much more vigilant and unified in nature. Likewise, when we venture back to the past, we see the aftermath of Artorias and the other two knight's efforts to stop the darkness, but Ornstein is curiously absent...
Another thing to note, is the fact that an allegedly distinguished knight of Lord Gwyn has an association with a low-life executioner, whose soul is only worth one soul to Frampt. Why would the leader of Gwyn's great knights end up being stuck with the likes of him, and guarding no less than the hollow illusion of Gwynevere? As this video states,
It makes perfect sense to me that if the leader of the knights were to fall as Artorias has, that an envious Ornstein would gladly jump in and build himself as the leader he felt he deserved to be. If he is indeed unaware that Gwynevere is merely an illusion, then Gwyndolin would gladly take advantage of his egotism and assign the position of Royal guard to him.
I'm not dead-set on this conviction, but much of the lore of this series is obscurely hidden, and it's up to the player to fill in the blanks where UA-cam theorists can only uncover so much. This theory of mine is just my way of filling that particular blank in my imagination :)
Well if it was made to be an illusion since ornstein appears in ds2 with a much older looking set of amour I'm to assume orstein was fake but dishonorable smough wasn't a fake. I believe orstein was the leader because once the dragons were shot down it was up to him to open a wound for the others to strike at which would give him a very important role. Also I think the animal of a wolf was to symbolize how the abyss walker fought the dark alone without help making him a lone wolf. While ornsteins fake body remanded guarding an illusion to give a since of power seeing both the powerful and feared executioner and the leader of the great four knights of gwyn.
Enigmatic Varan Idk where it said that Gough helped out with the abyss because I'm pretty sure it was just artorias. Also, your explanation about lions and wolfs was cool and all but that really doesn't explain anything and sounds like head canon to me. Artorias was a lone wolf, prabably working by himself and would not be a fit captain. Ornstein while maybe weaker strengthwise would be overall stronger in his leadership capabilities.
You also paint Ornstein as kind of and asshole which doesn't really make sense to me but it is your opinions after all and can like or dislike anyone you please but I'd like to remind you that artorias while being a total badass with a sexy design, he's kind of a failure, going into the abyss unprepared and then dying.
The character that we played is like the villain of this story 😭
Is gough the one that makes all the carvings that talk when you throw them? He just carves all day lol maybe it's his voice in it with magic
Ayo alpaca probably because his voice is low and the voice that comes out of the carvings are low too
7:27 Finished by the abyss in the chosen undead.?
Another theory: Ornstein is the supposed captain of the Four Knights, because he was the only one left by the time you slay him. Perhaps Artorias was the captain, but when the other three died Ornstein just claimed the title (noone in Anor Londo could tell otherwise). Smough maybe knew about it which is why he is so eager to smash Ornstein even though he's twitching.
Hey Dave, look back at the Leo ring. If you look close to the image, it seems as though the lion has an odd tail, one that seems to be representing a snake. I'm just saying this because I want to know how Ornstein can fuse with Smough and vise versa. Maybe Ornstein is more than just a (demi)god. Maybe he had another ability in tow that we may have missed.
I 5hink that ornstein was an illusion created by gwyndolin it would explain why he grows and why his actual set is found in archdragon peak in ds3
5:31 where does those fiends appear?
Dem feels D: Awesome video btw!
That might be Artorias in the into of the game holding the sword in his left hand. (His armor looks similar.) This might conform that he helped with the dragon hunts. But if that's true there is also the fact that he was left handed before but then lost the use at one point. Maybe to the dragons, maybe to the abyss. What do you think?
By that same logic, one could easily say that all of the NPC's are illusions.
Nearly every character with any form of dialogue does not leave a corpse when it dies.
There's a very specific difference between a one-of-a-kind item, and something that was mass-produced for the guards of Anor Londo. The Rings are specifically unique, serving as the mark of Gwyn's Four.
The Lordvessel is specific as well, but mainly because it's a tool of the Chosen. It has to be controlled, the Rings, are not.
Does anyone else think that ornstien may have been more than a guardian of gwynever? Because when the chosen undead enters the throne room he is with gwynever instead of with smough who is a friend as you can see when you kill smough first
TIME TO DROP SOME MORE LORE: in dark souls 3, 1 item in specific says smough was the only 1 to stay guard at the cathedral in anor londo meaning that ornstein was only a small peice of his soul or yet another illusion by gwyndolin and in dark souls 3 you also see ornsteins spear and armour by the bell to join the dragon covenent meaning he wanted to find the nameless king and join the dragon covenant and it is also thought that the storm drake the nameless king is riding on is ornstein himself it would make sense though because its a storm drake and ornstein used a lightning themed spear but even if that is him he still dies anyways
Also you don't pick his armour up by a corpse
He probably realizes that, with the Lordvessel in hand, it will be the quickest way for the Chosen Undead to contact him if they haven't been taken in by Frampt yet. That's probably the only reason he tolerates its presence in the Abyss. Why he doesn't get rid of it if you have spoken to Frampt, I have no idea. I don't know, why do these bonfires appear out on nowhere when they didn't exist in the area when the boss was alive?
The wolf ring IS actually pretty close to wear Artorias' grave would be, just higher up.
To me - the proof that they're not illusion lies in receiving their "special souls" from defeating them.
I'm sure they support the flames, just as they support Lord Gwyn. They've been fighting on Gwyn's side who is trying to postpone the Age of Fire, so I think they look at the flames as a positive thing.
By "predicted" I mean "speculated" because we still don't know.
Although, at this point, I think it's safe to say it's a sequel.
I have never played the first Dark Souls before but holy shit do I love the four knights. Next to Alonne, they are my favorite knights.
But if you kill Ciaran in the past, wouldn't that mean that the body with her ring could also be from a grave robber or another warrior? We know that many warriors have trespass Artorias grave and they have been slain by Sif. Hence the swords around the grave.
....you forgot to mention the tons of corpses
damn... I never got far enough to know that Artorias actually spoke to the Chosen Undead, and that he actually cared...
it is not in the game, the footage in the vid must be from cut content still in the game files.
6:19 what do you think those messages say?
Dark Souls : Knight Artorias of the Abyss cut/unused dialogue for anyone wondering about the arty dialogue
It's far more likely that Gough was not blind and that he thought he had gone blind when the eye holes of his helmet were stuffed with resin. Whilst his skills without sight are formidable I imagine that they were far better when he could see. Don't forget that he is old and that it wouldn't be too much of a shock to him if he went blind in his sleep.
He was probably imprisoned by the humans of Oolacile who, after being convinced by one of the serpents, turned on Gwyn and his following. They might have given him wood to do something to pass the time.
7:14 where's this line came from?
Has anyone else made a link to the emotions Gough lists and the four knights? To me, Ornstein represents pride quite clearly, but the other three are less clear-cut. I feel that Artorias may be the most rageful of the four, which could be what allowed him to be tainted in the first place, and Ciaran could be exhilaration, or hatred. It's debatable which, because she does seem to hold ill feelings towards humans.
Which leaves Gough to represent either of the last two. Both can be applied to him
I think you should do an update for the lore. I believed that the only person who guarded Anor Londo was Smough (refer to his armor in ds3). Ornstein that fought along side Smough might have been just an illusion that is created by Gwydolin (Gwyndolin could be powerful as well since even after his death, everything function normally through out Anor Londo (only talk about Ds1)). Also I believe that Ornstein was seeking out Gwyn first born child but what ever happen to him I don't know as I only encounter his armor set and his spear.
hello, i don't know if you have been informed already, but the nameless king is gwyn's first born.
I know I'm going to sound like such a noob but I always wondered why the knights were way taller than me, I understand the giant but I don't understand ornstein, artorias, and smough
it would seem like ornstein was there but to continue the story is in dk3 where at nameless king you can find he armor there like it was left there by someone not on a body or in a chest but just left there. and the storm drag when you kill him nameless does the samething as ornstein and smough, and a very well hidden fact that him and nameless are very close and was indeed best friends, you can get all of this in the things from them smough says that he was the only one that stay to watch the sunlight, and ornstein says that he left to find the nameless to be with him, you get that from the old dragonslayer armor in dk3 said that the owner of the armor had left a longtime ago so its proven that ornstein is in fact is a fake you are actually meant to kill smough and not ornstein.
Maybe Ornstein was despited by Ciaran, Gough and Artorias and maybe Ornstein was asked to come with the knights to Oolacile but he was afraid of it and therefore stayed home, but as he was defending the throne he felt lonely and asked smough to help him and maybe he was afraid of dying by the chosen undead
Nah, you fight a Berenike Knight (the super big guy with the Tower shield) and Ricard the Archer. (I'm assuming one of these two guys is who you're thinking of - probably Ricard).
the key is the rings. While yes, they could easily be moved after the wearer died, it's unlikely. From a storytelling standpoint, the rings are meant to brand the character as being one of the four knights.
They all appear near the character who was supposed to own them, and Ornstein's is the only one we directly recieve from the character.
Just my speculation but I think Ornstein and smough are just part of the illusion created by gwyndolin. After killing gwynevere we will see 1 knight of berenike and 1 baldur knight which has similar moveset to ornstein and smough. It would be strange that a baldur knight would make it in anor londo, could it be Knight king rendall? I have no idea of the Knight in Heavy armor though.
Great video!